Combined BOCC/City/BOE Meeting

vote to approve the agenda or the minutes uh until we have quorum. But if there are any questions or comments related to the minutes uh we could take those right now. None. Okay. And also want to provide a warm welcome to our newest school board members who are joining us for our first joint city county uh DPS board meeting. So welcome three all four of you one returning member. Um, I'll just move us along into our first discussion item uh while we wait for other folks to join for our DPS present transportation presentation. And we have uh Chief of Operations Officer Kenneth Barnes and Senior Executive Director Anthony White. if you just press the button on the microphone with a person.

There we go.

All right. Y'all can hear me now. All right. So, good morning. My name is Anthony White, um, senior executive director of auxiliary services for Durham public schools. Um today I would like to provide an update on several transportation initiatives including our exploration of public transit part partnerships, an update on our crossing guard program and information about school zone speed and bus stop arm enforcement. So let's begin with our work around public transit. Okay. So, as we explore the possibility of partnering with uh public transit, our primary goal is to identify ways to

improve access to transportation, [clears throat] um reduce barriers for students, and ultimately increase on-time arrival rates. When considering a pilot, our focus has been on secondary students who are most likely candidates to utilize public transportation independently. As we evaluated potential schools, we considered two key factors. Um, first, whether there is public uh transit stop located immediately adjacent to um the school's campus. While several of our secondary schools have bus routes nearby, not all of our stops are conveniently located um for students. Second, we looked at um school start times and dismissal times. Our middle schools begin at 8:30 a.m. and dismiss at 3:15 p.m. while our high schools begin at 9:15 and dismiss at 4 p.m. Any potential partnership would need to align with those students, excuse me, with those schedules to be successful. This slide highlights the schools that meet our initial criteria for consideration. We reviewed each of this um secondary um schools campus, evaluated its proximity to existing public transit stops. While some schools have transit service in the surrounding area, these schools have stops located close enough to the campus that make them practical candidates for a pilot program. As we think about where um a public transit pilot would have the greatest impact, it's important that we look at our transportation performance data. This chart was presented to the board of education in I believe April of this year um when we gave our presentation about express stops, but I thought it'd be important to um share this information again. Um, this chart shows our on-time arrival rates from April 7th through April 10th with schools grouped into three tiers. So, tier one

represents elementary schools. Tier two represents middle schools and Durham School of the Arts. Tier three represents our high schools. Our district goal is 90% of students arrive on time. As you can see, our elementary students are consistently meeting that goal while middle and especially our high schools um present opportunities for improvement. One point I would like to emphasize is how we define on time. Um these percentages are based on students arriving 10 minutes before the first bell, not at the exact start of school. As a former principal, I believe that the buffer is important because it gives students enough time to get to class, settle in, and be ready to learn when instruction begins. If we measured arrival at the actual start time, these percentages would be much higher. But this metric gives us a more meaningful picture of operational performance. Taking that information into account, these are the schools we identified as potential pilot sites. We have Northern High School, Riverside High School, Hillside High School, and Durham School of Technology. And of course, they share the same campus, Southern School of Energy and Sustainability, and also City of Medicine Academy. If we were pri if we were to prioritize one location, Northern High School would likely be our first recommendation. It location in Durham combined with conversations we've had with school leadership about transportation challenges makes it a strong candidate for us. Um there there other schools are also viable options but before launching any pilot I'll go back. Um before launching any pilot we will want to work closely with gom to ensure that the bus routes and schedules align with um the school's instructional day. All right. Next, I'm going to provide an update on our crossing guard program. So, this slide identifies each school currently served by crossing guards. Um,

as you noticed, the majority of these schools are elementary schools. Several years ago, um, the implementation of family responsibility zones increased the need for crossing guards at many of our elementary schools. Some schools require multiple crossing guards because they have more more um one more than one hightraic crossing location. Um before discussing some specific updates, I would like to thank our partners at the Durham Police Department and everyone involved in coordinating this program. Their assistance with training, staffing, daily operations has been invaluable um for us and our students here in Durham County. Over the last year, we've continued evaluating each cross guard um location to ensure that we are um using our resources where they have greatest impact. For example, um Hope Valley Elementary remains a high priority because of the traffic volume and roadway conditions at University Drive and Chapel Hill Road. Um the excuse me, at Dixon Road, the combination of higher um vehicle speeds, um limited visibility in certain areas, and significant pedestrian traffic makes this an important location to continue supporting. at CC Spaldin and Sandy Riz, we reduce crossing guard coverage after reviewing utilization and um finding consistent we we've been finding that there's been consistently low usage for our crossing guards at those locations. Um Weiss Smith Elementary was also reduced from two Carson guards to one based on the utilization while still maintaining appropriate student safety. U Mary Massenberg, which began receiving crossing guard support in January, serves an area with substantial um pedestrian activity and continues to um show a clear need. And for Lakewood Elementary, we're continuing to work with our um contracted partner um which

is all city management to ensure that coverage is in place for the upcoming year. Um, one of our biggest takeaways from the past year has been that um, utilizing a contracted service model has proven to be the most efficient and sustainable approach. Um, managing um, the recruitment, hiring, training, scheduling, substitute coverage, and day-to-day supervision um, internally requires a significant um, staff and time aotment. Um our partnership with all city management has um allowed us to provide more consistent coverage while reducing the administrative burden. As we continue evaluating the program, we will use um the utilization data and safety considerations to consider um to ensure that cross and guard resources are deployed where they can have the greatest impact on student safety. As we um consider expanding the crossing guard program, it's important to understand that there a number of factors um that determine where crossing guards are most needed. Um we maintain a priority ranking um for each school using this uh scoring system that consider several safety related measures rather than just relying on one single factor. Uh we evaluate each location using a comprehensive set of criteria and some of the key considerations include the posted speed limit, existing um traffic controls such as stop lights or crosswalk signals, the number of lanes uh that the students would need to um navigate across um and whether the location falls in the high injury traffic network outlined by the county and also the distance between the school and the nearest crossing point. While every school um values additional safety measures, our responsibility is to prioritize the locations where the need is greatest and where the crossing guards will have the greatest impact on student safety. The datadriven approach helps us to make informed decisions

while ensuring that we're using our resources effectively as possible. And the final topic that I would like to discuss today is our work around school zone speed enforcement and school bus stop arm enforcement. Um last July in North Carolina um legislation authorized the use of electric speed enforcement systems in school zones. Additional legislation also allows for automated enforcement um when motorists illegally um pass a stop school bus. And so here's how the process works. So a driver um is speeding in a school zone or illegally passes a stop um school bus. A camera system cap captures the violation. The system records the vehicle speed um photographs the vehicle and captures the license plate information. Um each potential violation is carefully reviewed by the vendor, then validated by our local law enforcement before a citation is issued. Um this review process helps to ensure that only legitimate violations result in enforcement. Uh once the violation is confirmed, a civil citation is mailed to the registered owner of the vehicle. If someone else is driving the vehicle, there's a process for identifying the appropriate driver. It's also important to know that these are civil citations and not criminal violations. So, no driver um driver license points are assessed. The goal is not to punish drivers unnecessarily. It is to encourage safer driving behaviors around our students. At the end of the day, this initiative is about one thing, which is student safety. Whether students are walking, riding a bicycle, or getting off a school bus, we want them to be able to do so in the safest environment possible. As a former and sometimes present school bus driver, and yes, I still drive the bus sometimes. Um I personally witness u

motorists illegally passing um stop school buses and it's one of the most dangerous um situations that a bus driver can face because you never know u when a child may step into the roadway um and you never know what the driver is thinking. So it's important that we are evaluating different tools to make sure that our students are safe. Over the last few months, uh we've been focused on learning from districts that have already implemented these programs and we've met with several uh vendors um to better understand the available technology and the implementation process. Um this summer we also attended a transportation conference in Asheville where we had an opportunity to speak with neighboring um school districts here in North Carolina um and also um from across the country who have launched um similar initiatives and those conversations have given us some um great insight into best practices, implementation strategies and lessons learned. Um, as we move forward, we'll continue evaluating those experiences to determine um, the best approach that meets the needs of Durham public schools and Durham County. So, the next few slides I have a if I can get to it like a timeline and I'll just say before I get started, this is a lofty timeline. Um, but um, I think it's important to have a starting point. understand that it it will need probably need some adjustment but you know we have flexibility but wanted to have a starting point. Um one of the first steps be working with our um city um county partners. So each municipality uh we need to adopt the appropriate ordinance before the program can move forward. So together we need to establish operational framework for the program that includes like what what constitutes a speeding violation for a school zone. For example, um is it 5 miles, 10 miles an hour over, 15 miles an hour over like what triggers a citation.

Um as well as we have to define the review and validation process with our law enforcement partners. Um we've already begun laying the groundwork and meeting with several vendors and evaluating different implementation models. Um and we've examined everything from camera infrastructure, installation requirements and assess data accessibility and system functionality. Another area where we've placed a very significant emphasis is on privacy. Um throughout our conversations with each vendor, um we've asked detailed questions about how information is collected, how it's stored, how it's protected, and and accessed. And privacy is our priority in Durham public schools and will remain a key consideration throughout this process. And as we move into the fall, our goal is to continue collaborating with our city, county, and law enforcement partners to establish procedures and determine how the program will operate locally. From there we would identify the initial implementation sites and select a vendor. Oh, is that okay? Um, one one consistent piece of advice that we've received from districts across the country is to start small and implement and implement the program well before expanding it. Um taking that approach allows us to evaluate effectiveness, make adjustments, and ensure that we're implementing the program in an equitable and thoughtful manner. Um a critical component um of this work will be community education before any citations are issued. Um we want our community to understand why this program is being implemented. Um how it works. The outreach would include social media, local media, direct communication with families and community members. And during that initial implementation period, I believe it's the first 30 or 60 days rather than just receiving the citations, um drivers would receive warning tickets just to let them know that the program is here

and to be mindful of the um violations that may be occurring. Um this educational phase gives us um an opportunity to raise awareness and encourage behavior that changes before the actual enforcement begins. Um, so ultimately this is about improving safety for our students. Um, by reducing speed in school zones and discouraging motorists from illegally passing stop school buses, we're creating safer environments for our students who walk, bike, or rely on school transportation each day. And um, an additional benefit of this legislation is that any um, revenues generated from these civil citations u remain with the local school district. Um that provides Durham public schools an opportunity to reinvest in th reinvest those funds into student safety initiatives. Um and as we move forward we can explore how those resources may help strengthen and sustain the program such as our crossing guard program and other safety efforts across the district. Our focus will um continue be implement continue [clears throat] to be implement implementing this program thoughtfully, collaboratively and in a way that best serves the students and the community. Right, that concludes my presentation and thank you for your time and I'd be happy to answer any questions or further discuss um any of these initiatives.

Yes, ma'am.

Commissioner Burton.

Thank you, Vice Chair Alam. Thank you, Mr. White, for your very excellent presentation. And I really think this is timely that we're discussing this because we on last Friday we had the great Durham attendance summit talking about um chronic absenteeism in Durham public schools um and trying to make sure that our kids go to school. Um so I'm really glad that we are thinking of solutions of how we can get our kids to school. Um I had a couple of questions. I had a

comment first because something was brought up um to me while I was there on last Friday about the city has a Uber service or something like that where micromobility and the um question was asked of me and I said I will have to check with my um colleagues on the city council about how far out that goes um particularly with regards to uninccorporated areas of the county um because we have kids who live in those areas and trying to get to school. So, I just wanted to put that out there. Um, the questions I have is around, you know, how are we doing with our bus driver retention, you know, is the base pay, has it gone up? And I know they get the um monthly stipen. So, is retention and recruitment, is it going well? Are there still challenges in that those areas? Um, and then the other question is, um, do we know how many DPS students from the previous school year or previous school years utilize Go Durham to get to school? And if we don't, do we know how we can get that information? So, thank you so much.

I'm going start with the second question first. Um, so we don't have a metric to track how many of our students are utilizing Go Durham. That's something that um be happy to work with our team and our county partners to see if there's a way for us to um track that information. Um I know many of our and again as a former principal um at Brogden Middle School, I I would see my students get getting on and off the bus daily. Um and that was adid amid the um the bus crisis that we had two years ago. U which we're going to leave in our past. Um but um I know that our students do rely on that transportation and I know some schools rely on it a little bit more than some others. Um just geographically speaking and you know culturally some of our students just they they feel a lot more comfortable on you know utilizing that. Um but we can

try to track that data and work with our county partners to kind of figure figure out what that is. Um, as far as our bus drivers, I would say that we are in a good place. I'm going knock on all the wood I have up here. Um, but we are we are in a good place with our bus drivers. Um, we're not really we're not in the same place that we were two to three years ago. Um, as far as recruitment and retention, um, we have placed a significant amount of energy in that. um even um utilized some strategies from the school, gave a um a working condition survey to all of our bus drivers to try to figure out what we can do um from a transportation leadership perspective to keep them um here with us because we do really value our bus drivers um as far as the um recruitment. We are um we have some new individuals um who are helping us with recruitment and retention and they've been doing a phenomenal job and we have um several bus drivers in the pipeline. I think we're in a good good spot to begin the school year and then we will be able to really bolster our workforce um in the coming months after school starts. So I and the way that bus driver recruitment works is um you always you have to continue recruiting. is not a time where you stop. So just knowing that we have that kind of energy and spirit on our team where we are consistently trying to recruit and again the biggest recruitment is retention as well. So making sure that we have an increased focus on that um this year but I do feel like we're in a great place.

Thank you for that. And what's the base pay for a school bus driver starting this school year 26 27?

There we go. Mr. Ter, he said he said 2022. Um, I will also say um that all of our bus drivers do receive the local um um $200, we call it a supplement um per

month and our safety assistants receive a $100 supplement per month um on top of their um hourly salary, which we're very happy um that we'll be able to provide that for our drivers. Also, our drivers receive a $150 a perfect attendance bonus um per month if they are present each day.

That's good to know and I'm glad that we as county commissioners were able to help with that. So, I know we got more work to do, but you know, we just going to continue working towards it, right? So, thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. I first want to say welcome. I'm sorry I was late, but welcome to all of our new school board members. Great to have you here. Um, [clears throat] and um, I know this this topic came out of I think our one of our joint previous joint meetings. So, it's great to hear the followup. I just wanted to understand in general are you is there some kind of a group that's getting working together right now between um city our city and county transportation folks maybe you said this in the beginning but are you so you have like a working group that's

uh yes um

okay Sean and Alan

um are here in the audience we have a um a team specifically with Durham Public school transportation and there's been a lot of um collaboration u with the city and county partners um and it's been great. We've been able to collaborate and really learn from each other throughout this process and working together.

Okay. Um so yeah, each of the areas that you focused on are really important. I do have questions related to each of them related to the idea of um I'm trying to understand is the goal of a pilot with the um using city buses is that to improve the timeliness of kids

getting to school. What what is because obviously the high school is [laughter] the one that needs the most improvement. What what is the goal of that pilot? Or is it to free up bus drivers? You know, I think originally it was like we were dealing with the crisis of the bus drivers and not having enough bus drivers. So like what is the focus or the goal of that pilot?

The number one goal is to make sure our students get to school on time.

Okay. So whatever means, whatever method works the best. And could you talk a little bit more about like what would that look like? For instance, a pilot at Northern, what does that actually look like?

Yes, ma'am. So it will look like um working with um Go Durham, looking at the stops, the time of the stops and like where where the bus is going and making sure that the the stop the the time where the bus is able to stop and the the bus stop at Northern is right across Roxboro Road. If we want to make sure that is it comes at a point where it is synchronous with our bail schedule, not necessarily 100% synchronous, but we wanted to work a little bit before, a little bit after, you know, just to make sure that we're able to get kids to school on time. And if they happen to be late, they're not that late. Um, and that will work in partnership with our standard bus um school bus service that we have. again just allowing some diff different options because sometimes you know uh we have children who miss the bus sometimes and so what's my next option to get to school. Um so again just trying to remove barriers to you know we start talking about um attendance and making sure we're getting our kids to school. What are some of the ways that we can eliminate barriers to make sure our students are in classes and learning? I think that sounds great and I if we can do that and then figure out a way to measure, you know, how many kids are actually taking the city bus and then

the if the attendance improves um and the timeliness that that would be great. So I hope we can move forward with that. Um related to the crossing guards, um I'm I'm on BPAC, so this has come up a lot. Um, BPAC has especially been interested in the school walk zones and making sure kids can get to schools safely. Um, and especially they've done a lot of work around Hope Valley. Just to clarify, is the walk zone policy still in place for Durham Public Schools?

Yes.

Okay. So to me that makes that this like really important because if we're expecting families and kids to walk to school then we need to make sure they are going to be safe. God forbid something happens that would be horrific.

We call it family responsibility zone. So not

Okay. Family responsibility zone. Okay.

Thank you. Um, so I know you highlighted certain schools where it wasn't really being utilized, but other schools where they it really is and there needs to actually be more like at Hope Valley was one. What So what are what are the solutions for that? Because you mentioned that it would be great if the city could help pay for the crossing guards. like how what what is it going to really cost to have the number of crossing guards that we really need and what are the what are the possibilities for that?

So you start talking some key words you said possibilities that means when I hear that I want to start dreaming big right so that means that all of our schools will have a crossing guard and um working with um our partners here with the city um we we have Part of part of the work has been working through all city management which has been a phenomenal partner for us. They handle

the hiring, recruitment, the day-to-day operations and things of that nature. Um also um partners with Durham Police Department. They've been phenomenal working with us and also staffing as well. Um what it will look like um again I don't have the exact cost per um crossing guard exactly what it costs to um that cost for each location. I can definitely get that information. Um but uh big big thinking um and in the in the perfect world we will have every every cross every school will have at least one crossing guard um regardless of it utilization or not because we never know when it when that family will choose to use um walking as a viable option um to get to school. So and whenever they make that choice, we want them to be safe with that. Um what the work that we've been doing is um I know I had a slide earlier that kind of talks about all these different criteria. We have a um a running spreadsheet. Every school every school is ranked and we kind of look at our priorities and that's how we've been able to kind of um place crossing guards. That's why Hope Valley um and again I'm very familiar with Hope Valley. it rises to the top. Um, and we want to make sure that we are prioritizing our resources in places where um, it will be utilized more. But

it would also be great to get a followup on that on like what are the

cost

what are the well obviously there has to be a prioritization but just understanding like what are we looking at big picture because it could impact city funding, it could impact county funding. Um, and I know you mentioned it sounds like Lakewood is the most time-sensitive. You said the funding runs out August 24th, I think. So, but yeah, I think it's important that we all work together on solutions for this and to to stay on top of this issue. And

then lastly, uh related to the um school zone enforcement, um wondering what you know policies around the cameras, uh who who has access to that information because we know what's happening right now with um uh you know, related to immigration and I mean just today I heard on the morning news that uh the Trump administration is revoking visas for people who have things like traffic tickets. So we we have to be very very careful um related to that information. I'm I'm all for us enforcing this and also the schools getting money having like an enterprise fund that you can then put back into school safety. That would be awesome. But just want I think we need to raise the issue around the cameras and the information.

Yes. Um as I stated earlier, the privacy of this is going to be key. Um because if we able to move forward with this, our our community has to know that um riding past a school is not something that's going to put them in danger. Um I don't want our families to be scared of schools and school zones as we um try to move through this. So um again, one of the concerns that I I I bring up and things I want um the companies to talk about is privacy. How are you protecting the data? Who has access to it? Um and by and large the companies that we spoke to and again there are um it's not just there are not just three companies who um do this work. there multiple but as we've been going through this process um the overwhelming um sentiment has been that the company has the um access to the data and um like one company for example um they talked about how um the level of security in their um cloud like

how it's like government level security in order to get to it um the only other people to have access to it are our law enforcement um partners Um again, as we continue this work, um if we um continue to move forward with this and we have a partner, I would want to have a very very clear statement for us, our community, everybody um in Durham about what privacy looks like and make sure that we are not discouraging people from driving near our schools because they are safe places for our children, our families, and we don't want them to shy away from that.

Thank you. And

thank you. Uh we have a line of folks but just before I just want to jump in just to ask clarifying because this was something that came up when we were doing discussing agenda prep also around the safety and security around cameras. Um can we just get clarification if you can share those privacy security um policies that the whatever company you guys move forward with sharing that with the city and county as well. and for them to define when they say law enforcement agencies, which law enforcement agencies um that data is going to be shared with.

Yes, ma'am. Um from our um feedback from our conversation and I I really appreciate your um your insight. Um we've gone back and we we are asking for for some very specific verbiage and um some very specific information and before we able to move forward that that information will be provided um specifically around what are your stances on privacy who has access to the data which law enforcement partners um and when I speak of law enforcement partners um in this sense we were talking about either Durham County Sheriff's Department or Durham police department. Um, but I will make sure that that is um out in writing for our community as we move forward in this process.

Thank you.

Just do want to also state that we

currently do have cameras on our buses. Now, these cameras that Mr. White is speaking of will only be operational once that stop arm goes out. So, the current cameras on our bus now records footage were in the front of the bus and in the sides of the bus and those are always on at this point. So, just wanted to clarify that. Well, thank you. And the stack I have is uh Chair Joy, then C mayor Proam Cabiierro, uh Council Member Carl, and then Mr. Tab School.

Oh, and Gabby. And I'll have to slip out in about five minutes to catch a flight, and I'll be passing it on to chair.

Thank you. Um many of the questions. Thank you so much. um Commissioner Jacobs and people who have spoken have already been addressed. Um but I had one point of clarif clarification around the um conversations that you're having about the aligning go Durham with the um bell schedule. Um, does this also I'm just wanting to know if you're talking about the um frequency of how often the bus is. Does that not just the beginning and the end of school, but like how the classes are in case because even if the children are late or something does come up, it can um be able to make more of the classes um than just you know being there at the beginning or the end of school.

Yes, ma'am. the frequency and the times are definitely a part of the um conversations and would be um part of our discussions move forward if we're able to move forward with this initiative.

All right. Thank you. That was my only point of clarification. Thanks.

Thank Thank you. Good morning everyone. Good to see uh our school board friends. Um a couple of questions. So, first of all, the the driver around K, you know, especially high school students taking Guadorm isn't just about safety and getting to class on time. It's about increasing writership for Go Durham. Long term, we want as many Durham

residents to use our transit system. And the easiest way for folks to do that is to grow up, ride in the bus, you go to any major city, and that's what happens. People use transit. They're used to it. They're not 35 and afraid because they've always been in a car. Um so that that's also uh a a huge at least from the city's perspective a huge motiv motivator. Um we the county and the city spend a lot of money to to build out and run a worldclass free um or fair free uh bus system. Um and we and we want to keep doing that and we want our our young people to utilize that um service that they also pay for. Um

awardw winning right

award-winning literally um best large transit system in the state of North Carolina. Um, and then secondly, I know that when we as a city council with Axon just a few months ago, we had a an additional addendum and so I I actually asked DPS folks to talk to city uh city attorney's office, there was very strong language around privacy and there are certain things that regardless of the contract threshold, so even if it's under the manager's contract threshold for it to get turned on, for tech to be used, it actually has to come to council and there actually has to be a vote even though administratively maybe that wouldn't have had to happen. Um and we did that in order to ensure that whoever our police chief is, whoever our city manager is, and whoever is sitting in city council like that is an open and transparent conversation. Um we we felt very confident in our chief and very confident in our city manager currently. Um, but personnel changes uh and and different electeds come in and so you want to create a culture and a and a system and processes that it doesn't matter who's in the seat. They're going to have to have that conversation publicly. Um, so that's a suggestion I um uh encourage DPS to do around the tech parts of it, who holds it. There are companies that you own the data, they don't own the data. Um, that's something that we just did as well. Uh, and so again, I encourage DPS to to talk

to our city staff around um the tech that we just put in um what, like three months ago.

Yeah. Um, and then uh with with the timeline and things, I think I probably need to see the slides again, but I just want to uh and Commissioner Jacobs, the city is paying for crossing guards in our current budget. So, we extended that program um for this fiscal year. I think the hope would be that that fund potentially funds like that's how you pay for the crossing guards. You you collect the fees and then you pay for them. That that would be the hope. Um, so I just whatever you need to hear from us around whatever approvals or whatnot, just let us know. I am very very interested in um again ensuring that people can take and I want to commend city transportation staff. Riverside and um Northern used to be on the same bus route um four years ago, five years ago, they were on the same bus route. We've increased frequency every 15 minutes. We've separated um the bus routes so that they're not on the same bus, which was a very long route. and and folks really weren't utilizing it. And then finally, county and city is really going to need to talk about infrastructure. Riverside still doesn't have a good sidewalk in front of it. We want students and staff potentially, right, to take city buses. We need to make sure the infrastructure in front of those buildings is safe. Uh I know Northern is is well suited for that pilot. So, I'm excited about that. I know Hillside also has really good infrastructure in front of it and so does Jordan, but not all of our comprehensive high schools and not all of our schools do. And so that's a conversation that we're going to have to have with city and county partners around how do we uh think about that and how do we prioritize um the infrastructure in front of our school buildings. That those are all my comments. Thank you so much for being here with us.

Um council,

thank you chair. Yeah, thank you so much. Uh great to see everyone this morning again. Sorry I was late as well. So good to see everybody, especially our new colleagues on the school board. It's great to have you here. Um thank you Mr.

Mr. White for the presentation. This is really important stuff and I think it's I'm glad that we flagged this I think at an earlier conversation. This is something we need to talk about among the three boards. So, it's really important conversation. I guess my I'm still unclear because this is like this is a key objective for our city. I think we all agree on that. We want kids to get safely to school. We want to use these resources efficiently. What's not clear to me is like what is the ask here? So certainly the questions that uh Commissioner Jacob asked about what is the cost? So I we get this this is really important but I think what's lacking here is like okay what are what does a school board what does the county need from the city what do we require of you all so I'd love to have this conversation but we've got to be a little clearer the we have these meetings once every what every quarter this is valuable time so we need to use this efficiently so I just I need to know like what's the ask you know I get the timeline and all that so that's my big question there because I think we we have extended our budget this year to to ex to extend the crossing valley but to to strengthen that to expand this other to other schools what is the cost what are we asking so that's one question I also would urge and I think council member Jacobs also mentioned this if we're going to do pilots then let's gather data right so let's find out how many kids are riding these buses to school let's find out if there's not utilization in certain schools why are families not walking to school that we've got crossing guards there so let's be let's be smart about that um so those are two things I would ask the other thing I want to say is I I do see two red flags here so we did have a conversation recently about Axon. We've got tons of emails recently about flock cameras. Are they allowed in Durham? Um the state authorized those. I think that was part of your slide there. The state authorized that um I think this last session, right? Allowed this on state roads, right, across the state. So, we've gotten emails about are there flock cameras in Durham. And what we tell folks is like yes, there are flock cameras on private property. There are flock cameras on state roads. They're allowed on state roads now. But if we're now saying there's I don't know if this flock is a vendor who the vendor is but these automat automated license plate readers are a thing for our residents in Durham. And so I can see if we say yeah now we have flock cameras in all school

zones people are going to freak out about that. So we got to be clear if we're going to do this. I I I get that it's a tool to control speed but we got to be clear if we're doing that what the implications are for our residents. So I want to I want us to think about that. The other thing I want to think about because we've seen this conversation over and over is you mentioned like a contractor to manage the um to manage the crossing guards, right? So again, we can't require contractors to pay a living wage in the state. And we've had this conversation over and over. We hire contractors, what wage are they paying? And then we get sort of sideways with our residents. So, if we're going to use a contractor, let's be clear what that means in terms of wages and benefits for those workers and whether it's not better for us if we need that support to have that in house and to pay for that. So, those are the questions I have. I think we I think this is really important, but I think we need to think through a lot of these big issues. So, thank you

board member.

Thank you. Thank you everyone for um welcoming us in the space and thank you Mr. White for your presentation. I had a couple questions and I'm so glad I kind of went in this line because some of my questions got answered by other members. So, thank you for asking the ones that you did. Um, specifically, so I'm going to just start with my first one on the pilot schools conversation. Um, you mentioned that the goal is to get kids on uh to school on time. That is like the main goal of this whole thing. So I was wondering do we have any data around the go the go dorm bus routes and what their percentage is on getting to places on time as well to ensure that we're not just causing another problem. My second question with that is if we are going to replace for Northern High School and do this pilot, um are the bus routes going to be somewhat similar to what they are right now or are we asking students to go to further distances to get to the bus and how do we ensure that our students are actually having access to the bus routes that we're now kind of giving shifting back to uh Durham. So that's my first question if you want to start there.

Okay. So the first question is

phenomenal. Um I would say that I I do not have the access to Gold DM's arrival data. Um me personally, I can track Durham public schools buses. I don't have that information as far as the ontime arrival rates of go Durham if you want to join me.

Okay. All right. Morning everyone. I'm the city transport. Uh so I'll say that um we've set uh a goal of uh at least 90% on-time performance for Go Durham. Um we are uh right now uh we had our performance review yesterday. We we are above that 90% threshold right now. We are uh as council member Riss said the best uh urban transit system in North Carolina. Um so that's one of the uh criteria that we submitted uh when we were u an applicant for that award. So in addition to the on-time performance uh on-time performance is is important uh but frequency is really important as well. As council member Caviierro said two years ago uh at this time uh Riverside and Northern high schools were served one bus per hour. Southern High School was served by one bus per hour. So even if that bus is on time, if somebody gets there three minutes after that bus departs, they're waiting about an hour uh for the next bus. And that's going to be really disruptive to students and u teachers and educators. Uh so our focus

has been on looking at and we know that our best chance of uh providing really effective student transportation is with high school students. So we've looked at there are 10 uh DPS high school sites. Uh we traditionally have served them one bus per hour but we have been on a campaign over the last two years. So two years ago in 2024, we went from 60 minute service at Northern and Riverside high schools to 30 minute service at both those schools. In 2025 at Southern High School, we went from 60 minute frequency to 30 minute frequency. Uh and uh we also uh went to we added Jordan High School to our 15minute service uh on the route five. And then on August 22nd, so later this month, two days before the first day of school, we will add uh more service on the route 4. The route four, the majority of the route four will become uh one of our frequent service routes. So, Northern High School, which like I said two years ago was served by one bus per hour, will get a bus every 15 minutes. So, the on-time performance uh we're going to continue to focus on that. Uh but the frequency uh is really critical to uh address those concerns about someone who's running a few minutes behind, who misses that departure. If there's another bus coming in 15 minutes, uh that student is going to um is going to get to school a little bit tardy, uh but is going to have the majority of that day uh of education available. So, of the of the 10 sites, uh we have 15 minutes service at seven of the 10 uh DPS high school sites. We have uh two sites with 30 minute

service. Um and then one of the sites which is in research triangle park is served by the RTP connect uh microtransit zone which is uh operated by RTP foundation and and go triangle. Um, so there's transit access at all 10 of those and our focus is really on the frequency uh and and building up and these these improvements that we've been making over the last two years uh are possible only because of the support of the Durham County Transit Plan. So, all of these service increases that we've done that have doubled, quadrupled service at Northern High School, these investments are coming from that half cent sales tax for transit that's collected across Durham County. Without the support of our Durham County Transit Plan partners, none of this uh would be possible. We we'd likely still be at that that 60-minute service at uh at most of our schools. Uh so, we're going to continue to do that. Uh we have um We have some boarding data that we can collect and share uh in terms of the uh what we're seeing at the stops closest to the schools uh in terms of the um how many boardings a day we're seeing there. We're seeing uh heavy activity at the high schools. Uh we're also seeing significant activities um at several of the middle schools. Uh so uh Brogden Middle is uh a good example of that where we're seeing uh really uh strong ridership. So we're we're happy to share that u and to the extent that infrastructure improvements are needed say at at Riverside High School. Um it would be great to have this this enterprise fund uh with the revenues from the um you know the school bus and the speed camera uh citations to be able to pay for not only the the crossing guards uh but also u infrastructure

improvements that are needed at DPS sites uh to provide those uh safe that safe access to uh transit services. Thank you so much for giving that off the cusp um quick presentation. Um and so my follow-up question to that and just trying so just for me to understand kind of what the goal is in the end. So, is the goal to actually have no buses from Durham public schools going to Northern High School and instead we're now solely um relying on Go Durham as the the transportation? No, that is not the goal. Okay. So, what is the goal?

The goal is to allow um students some optionality in how they get to school. Um, we want to make sure that our yellow buses are getting there early and on time. And in the event that a student chooses to not get on the yellow bus, they can choose go durm. Um, but we want to um, again break down barriers for students getting to school on time.

Thank you. That is very helpful. Um, okay. So then a second question um I'm just going to kind of go through the rest of the questions they had cuz that other people um also were ready to jump in as well. So my second question as we kind of keep going through so after pilot schools um I noticed that you mentioned that some of the schools for the crossing guards they weren't utilizing them and thank you uh u member Riss for mentioning that um we need to get some information on the why why are they not utilizing them but then a followup is if we're noticing that maybe they're not using utilizing a crossing guard can we reinvest the money for a crossing guard into a um speed bump or um can we reinvest that to other infrastructure needs to actually start addressing it if if it's just that they're not using it? That was my second question.

That's that's a great question as well.

I'm not sure who do you have.

Okay.

So, we evaluated more than 30 potential sites for uh crossing guard locations. There's there's merit and value in in all of those sites. Right now, we're able to do a maximum of 19 sites. So, we have 15 uh school crossing guard positions that are managed by the Durham Police Department and then we have four sites that uh are provided through the contractor. So, our focus really is on using the available funding to get as many of those 19 sites covered as possible. Uh, and then we have alternate sites. Uh, so we've done the analysis. We worked in partnership with DPS on that analysis. But um I would say we have uh well over uh 20 sites that uh would benefit from crossing guards. uh the program is is really it's overs subscribed uh in terms of the need for that and that's why the possibility of having the revenues from the school bus cameras and the speed zone cameras is really uh a great next step because that would allow us to fully fund all of the best uh candidate sites for crossing guards uh and then potentially make some addition investments once that's taken care of. But right now, we're not in a position where uh we're able to fund all of the good candidate sites for crossing guards.

Thank you for sharing it. Um and that that makes sense and and what you're saying and so thank you as well for creating you know the system and helping

us even understand the need um and providing the resources to fill this need. Um that kind of leads me to my my final question is in the um security uh what are we calling this? Uh I just want to make sure I'm using the right words. uh in the security cameras that we're talking about how so I know we've been talking about um making sure that we're keeping data secure. So I guess really my concern is is there really a way to keep it secure and at what point with the current climate we have and with a lot of this overreaching of if there's information out there that there's um policies that can be put in place that says hey anyone as long as information is out there anyone can take that information. Is there really a way to protect it? um especially if we're using these in school zones. So that means across all of our Durham public schools, there's going to be um almost a half a mile of information that we're just gathering. So is there what policies or or is there anything that we already know for sure of it's going to be on only on at these specific times during the day and it will be off the remaining times of the day? like can can we put measures in place to ensure that our communities are actually safe? Because when we keep talking about safety and we're speaking safety of the kids and that's great, that is the main goal. How do we not cause um unintended harm to our communities in trying to keep one population safe as well? So that that's that's my question.

So I think that's um an excellent question. I think um one is going to be in the education that we um that we're able to give out to the community if we're able to move forward with this. We when I'm going address the first thing um that you spoke of with the privacy um again I just wanted to reiterate um definitely high on our priority list number one of what safety privacy and

they go again they go hand in hand u we we don't want people to feel scared just to drive through. Um we've been doing a lot of information gathering about um when the stop arms are act like when the cameras are active. Um again different that that final decision will have to um be made in collaboration with like law enforcement and and just everyone like everybody that's at the table. It's not something that will be set by Durham public schools. So again, that's that's going to be a collaborative conversation and we will all have to be on the same page about what this looks like and that will have to be established first before we can get out there and campaign to say, "Hey, this is here." Um, and I personally I feel like before we even get to that place, there needs to be a lot of information about why we're doing it, like how this works, um, what would be shared, what's not shared, who has access to information. The, um, information that I've received in talking to different vendors and talking to different um, contractors um, over the course of the last two months is that the the company that um, captures the um, or the video, they they are the initial owner of the information. Um there are some companies that allow us in Durham public schools to access the diff the um information on a secure server. There are some that only allow the um local police department to access the data on a secure server. And we don't have any um I would not have any access to look at anything. Um, and again, there's no final decision about what we're going to use or what's company, but I think those are the the questions that I just want to let you know those are the questions that we're asking and this the data that we're gathering in this process. So, I just want to reassure you that these it is at the forefront and we will make sure that we keep that there as we move through this process.

Thank you for that and thank you for even thinking about those questions. Um and also thank you um Mayor Prom for speaking earlier that there is an option of us being the owners and we would really really love the information as well.

All right. Um board member Burr, did you have any questions or comments?

Good morning everybody. Um, I appreciate everyone's questions. I appreciate the presentations. Thank you so much um for what you're doing. I do want to just double click on a few things folks said, which is around the parent responsibility zone, student responsibility zones. The issue is there aren't enough sidewalks, especially around Hope Valley. I've heard a lot about that. So, y'all know better than me, but who pays for the sidewalks? Is there a schedule prioritizing for that? Because I think that's part of like the bigger picture that we're looking at. um needing more sidewalks to so that folks can use the walk zones, the crossuards, things like that. Um I did have a question about the contractors risk. You brought that up. Um do do our entities have um kind of do we ask groups that we contract with, for example, the cross guards, is there like we want people to get paid this level? Is there a different rate for contractors? I know employees all have a living a certain wage that they're all supposed to receive, but do we have a ask around what who we contract with and what they're paying their workers or are we just hands off with that? That's a question which you may or may not have the answer to. I also have more questions. Um, I think all of our entities, our institutions, we're trying really hard to build trust with the community. And so I think we have to be really careful when we're thinking about

finding people in our different in our communities to um at all basically. And I know you're well aware of that because you brought it up, but just want to make sure like we need people to trust us and um so I wouldn't want to damage our relationships with our community members. Do we have information on how much the camera systems will cost? I feel like there wasn't a number on how much that costs there. Um, do we have a number on how much could potentially be made? Do we have a number on what is the current data of how people are speeding through these school zones? Is that a big problem to start with or are we just using this as a way to make money to pay for crossuards? I don't know like where the problem starts and ends and what the solution is without some of that information. Um, and then do we have I love the idea of like warning people ahead of time with getting but do we have a process for community engagement on this idea? Councilwoman Javier brought this up um that or maybe Ritz brought this up that people are not going to be happy with this idea. So where are we engaging community? because maybe community is actually like, hey, we're tired of people speeding around the schools. We want a solution. I mean, that could be something that folks want, but where are we engaging community on this idea? Another question is when, where, how does a vote happen on any of this? Is this has there been already been a vote and that this is a process that's moving forward? Do all three of our groups have to have a vote? I know I heard the word ordinance, but what's the before that part? Um, and

um, yeah, how will success be measured is my other question. Will it be um, kids attending school on time? Will it be having money to pay for crossing guards? Will it be less speeding? I just could see a rubric with like here's all the stuff we want out of this and here's all the stuff that happened. Um, but I'm not sure exactly what all that is. And then the last thing I wanted to say is I love the city bus. I didn't have a car for years, not by choice. So I would ride the city bus and I had a youth group and I would teach students how to ride the city bus so that they could have some ownership and agency over their own lives. But you have to kind of teach people how to use the bus. and do we have an education component uh to teach young people how to use the bus? Maybe there's partnerships that we could work on. Um definitely an education campaign and the city bus has been awesome for years also cuz I was riding it back in the day and it's been great. So I'm super excited about making it more accessible to young people. So thank you so much All right. You gave those questions really, really fast. Is there one that you would like for them to follow up one or two?

I was I was I was writing this fast. [laughter]

I don't I don't I don't

I guess just the sum up is sidewalks. What's the process?

Contractors. Is there a guaranteed pay for contractors? Um, another process for community feedback. Uh, will students be educated on how to ride the buses? Just because it's there doesn't mean people know how to do it. how will success be measured is another question.

Um yeah, the actual cost of the cameras. Um what is the data currently on people speeding around schools? Like is that the problem we're actually trying to address?

Okay.

Um and then when, how, and where is the vote uh for any of our organizations? and is this a proposal or are the wheels already in motion? And all that's asked very humbly because I I just really want to know and I appreciate all of your work.

All right. So, out of those questions, I have a couple I have a couple of them that are mine. He has he has a few and then some maybe some of them are going to be answered at the table here. Um so, as far as the cost of the cameras, there is no upfront cost to us for the camera systems. it would be provided free of cost from the company and a part of that agreement is that there would be um a revenue split and and each company has their own metric um and different ways to go into it. So for example, we can say all right um company X will receive um 50% of all um revenue generated from any tickets and Durham Public Schools will receive the other 50%. There may be another company that says, "Hey, just pay us a subscription fee per month based on the number of cameras you have and then any revenue that you keep is what you keep." But each each way you go about it has pros and cons. And again, that's what we are kind of really digging into because we don't want to put ourselves in a negative situation. Um, the question about the crossing guards and how much they're being paid, I do not have that data, but I will find that data out and I'll be happy to get that to you. Um, and I apologize for that. Um, the current data about speeding data,

current data around speeding in school zones, um, I don't have that, but I will, um, give you this quick, um, anecdote. Um there was one morning uh I remember this this morning very vividly. I was standing out at the street um helping with car poolool u with officer cogill. Shout out to officer cogill who um always helped us out at Brogden and we were standing there and he was talking to me about the um cars that's coming past and he said I want you to look at this car that's coming towards us right now. The car was going he said from my training he's a retired officer was doing off duty. He said, "My train of that car is going about 55 miles an hour down the speed zone on Leyon Street." And he said, "I I can't get out and stop it right now because I'm not going to be able to catch it, but I'm going to try to do what?" He said, "I'm going to try to do what I can to try to slow it down." So, as he saw the car and he did something that he's way way braver than me, he kind of stepped into the street a little bit to try to get the driver's attention and then he had to move out of the way quickly because the driver wasn't paying him any attention. And just think if they would do that with a law enforcement officer in a uniform standing on the street, imagine what that would what kind of feeling that would evoke for some some of our children. And that's something that I witnessed firsthand. So again, around the data of how frequently it happens, um I don't have that, but I know that it does happen um very frequently um here in Durham. um the process for community engagement. Any vendor that we um elect to move forward with, they have a community engagement um plan and team that work with us on getting that out. So that's not something that we have to manufacture or produce oursel. Um these companies have been working with different um cities, states, and so they have a um a playbook on community engagement that we would partner in in disseminating that information. and um the educational component to riding the bus. Um we do have um someone on um D public school staff who um specializes in um safe

routes to school. Um that is something that we do. I know that there's also um information um with gom about um riding the bus um and we actually get some of that information out to our families. And lastly, success being measured. Safety for our students. Getting the kids to school on time is not so much about the profit. Um profit is great, but um at the cost of I I mean student safety is number one. Getting our kids to school on time so they can learn is 1B. So um those are our priorities and that's how we we would measure success. I I do have some data nationally. Um according to the National Association of State Directors and pupil transportation, it's estimated that about 45 there were about 45 million stop arm violations in in one year had about 130,000 bus drivers that participated in a survey and that equated about 95,000 stop arm violations in one day. Um at the state level it's about 3,000 per day. And so you put kids attached to those numbers, one kid attached to those numbers, but we know there are multiple kids that get off stops. Um it's definitely and and I would imagine that our bus drivers probably would estimate around maybe 90 to 100 per day

um here. So it's definitely an area that we just can't continue to watch the numbers on this one. So following up on the um the incidence of speeding. So we don't have uh data collected here in Durham for our school zones. Uh but we are participating in a peer exchange. Uh and so we recently got a presentation from uh the city of San Francisco. The city identified about 30 locations for uh speed safety cameras. Uh what they found was that they had multiple corridors where 25% or more of drivers were going 10 miles over the limit. So that's one in four vehicles

going 10 miles over the limit. And they introduced the cameras at those locations and across the board they were able to cut that number to 2%. So there there and everything we hear from our residents, our community is that speeding is an issue across Durham. Uh and excessive speeding is an issue across Durham. And these locations where children are coming to and from school and you know we have the school zones, we have the flashers active around the bell times, but there are students and families and staff going to and from schools throughout the day. And so making those places safe throughout the day is uh a critical goal that that I think we share with our partners uh at DPS. Uh and then with respect to sidewalks, uh the city and county uh recently completed uh our 2026 update to the bike and walk plan. We identified 25 locations for new sidewalk, 25 locations for sidewalk gaps in the network, and then 25 locations uh where there are intersections uh in need of safety improvements. So that prioritization process uh has now been completed through that that plan and that's been shared with the BPAC and uh other u other bodies. And director Rean, we're also also with the bond funds, we're still there's still more sidewalks we're actually building right now. Right.

Correct. Yeah. So, we're moving forward uh on sidewalk improvements uh just in downtown. If you go up to Corporation and Mangum, you'll see um out on Holloway Street. As you're approaching Miami, you'll see uh sidewalk that's going in now. Uh and those projects were made possible because of the the connect uh Durham 2024 bond that got 75% approval from voters.

All right. Um um I have board member KA and then Mayor Williams. Um Mr. Tab and

Cabierro. Okay.

Hi Mr. Okay. All right. So,

yes, I got you on there. All right.

So, I'm just giving a few more. Okay.

Great. Thank you. Thank you, um, commissioners and council members and everyone from DPS for being here today. Um, my questions, um, you kind of just hinted at one of them. I was wondering if we have any analysis um between the efficacy of the camera monitoring versus other traffic slowing measures like built environment uh speed bumps, signage, things like that. Um in terms of how much of a difference it makes when we're kind of analyzing like is the security risk to our population worth the payoff of the increased safety? Um and then as far as this is for if we do enter into these surveillance camera contracts um is there possibility of ensuring contractually the safety of the data if the company is purchased changes ownership? We're seeing a lot of private equity buying up things. Um just that's always at the top of my mind making sure that like we talked about before um other law enforcement organizations outside of Durham Police Department are not able to access any of that data? Um and then my last question is just that um are GoDm bus drivers prepared and trained to potentially handle large populations of children getting on their buses? um dealing with kids uh and high school students are still kids is a different population than adults and

Durm public schools bus drivers are trained in that area. Um so just want to make sure that everyone in the community is ready for that um for liability on all sides. Thank you.

We stand side by side. Um so I'll start with the effectiveness. So we um implement trafficcoming infrastructure uh improvements and um we see significant reductions in in average speeds. We'll see one two three miles per hour uh reductions in average speeds from uh our uh infrastructure improvements. And those reductions are uh are significant and they're adding value. What we saw from the peer exchange in San Francisco was an 80% reduction in gross excessive speeding. So from the time that they launched it within a year the number of citations in the same locations was down 80%. We do not have built environment interventions, counter measures that provide that kind of reduction in in that gross excessive speeding by drivers. That was uh for speeds 10 10 miles per hour or higher above u the speed limit in those areas. So in terms of effectiveness and tools in the toolbox, uh this is an incredibly effective tool. Uh so and then with respect to u transporting teenagers on our go Durham buses. We do it every day. Um I hear about it from our other customers who are going to work and bothered by rambunctious teenagers um on their buses. Uh I think the best thing that we can do to address that is to

address the crowding issues that we're having on our buses. the more crowded that bus is, the more um risk there is of um kind of disruptive behavior. Uh and so what we're doing with uh the the Northern High School Service where we're going from that 30 minutes to 15 minutes later this month is we're spreading those out. Uh we're also starting some of the trips um on the southbound uh just just about at Northern High School. U and so we're hopeful that those those trips will uh pick up a lot of the students uh and then reduce some of that crowding um and disruption that's experienced by our other passengers. And I'll say with respect to training, we do train uh we're carrying thousands of DPS students every day. So we're training uh our bus operators uh on how to manage, how to deescalate, uh reduce um incidents. Uh some are better than others. Some of our veteran bus operators uh would probably uh you know have employs the same strategies that are employed on your yellow school buses. They're very effective. Some of our newer operators were always hiring. If you know anybody, uh Go Durham is hiring. Uh we have very generous wages and benefits. So spread the word. Um [laughter]

Durham Public Schools is hiring for bus drivers as well. Um but uh so we continue to work on that that training um making sure that we're setting a tone uh of respectful behavior uh on the buses uh and that we uh maintain that respectful behavior. Um but but it is a challenge and it certainly is something we hear about from folks who are going to school, going to work. um that uh but we think it's providing a really valuable service

to the Durham community, transporting those students. So, we're going to continue to to manage that uh and train our folks uh to to maintain that respectful environment.

And I I believe the one question that um I could respond to was about the privacy if the company decides to sell. Um, that is a great point and I appreciate you lifting that up and there something that we will I I have down to u make sure that is added to any kind of questioning or um any kind of privacy questions or information that we we receive move forward. Thank you for that. I'll just add to that we certainly want to be partners uh in this and so if there's an ever an opportunity where there's a Jordan Riverside um southern uh city bus where your drivers are experiencing a significant amount of challenges please let us know we work with those schools principles to just have some conversations with those those students and I will also say based on some national data although we have not pilot piloted the school bus cameras uh stop arm cameras here uh there was a pilot done in uh Pennsylvania where they looked at the annual data for the entire entire school year over close to 31,000 school buses and they had about 60 667 citations. The pilot they did over 47 days with just two buses uh yielded 205 violations. So those were traditional enforcement measures, cops, signs, speed bumps versus the two-day pilot um for for these cameras. And I will also say based on some of this data, 90% of those individuals that violated the the the the stop arm um didn't repeat that that violation. So there is some success in terms of you know when you know better you do better when you get caught you know because again people are rushing in the mornings.

Um and um I would just hate for something to happen to any one of our scholars.

Mayor Williams.

Good morning everyone.

Uh just quick question. Well one I want to manage expectations. Um, when I ride

the bus, especially out to South Point, I don't think there is any managing behavior of those kids. Just not gonna happen. Um, I I've witnessed it myself several times and one of them said, "Hey, ain't you the mayor and they all started apologizing for cursing. It's just not going to happen." But, you know, I also is a reflection of just people and and so um I think we have a real opportunity here. Um and I I I appreciate all of the questions. Uh this is one thing I love about new elected officials because you go back and ask the foundational questions that some of us become after you've been in office and what happened to you as well. [clears throat] You're going to have so much information in your head that you're not going to think about those foundational questions and you're just going to continue to build on the policy and eventually you may leave people and they're not understanding why you're making certain decisions. There are going to be people that say I don't want cameras involved at all. They're going to people there going to be people that says please put cameras out there. Um I always say remove the labels and remove the bias and think about what the end goal is. What are we trying to do? Keep kids safe. um make the environment safe and get them to school on time and also maybe um alleviate some of the struggles that we have with driver shortage. Uh we're we're sharing the burden now. My question is, is there an opportunity and you don't have the answer this yet or now um considering the federal administration is is um special um are there opportunities for us to resource stack between uh FFAT um the Federal Transportation Administration and uh the Department of Education.

So I'll of the that hasn't come up yet, but I think is important for us to clarify is that um there are federal

regulations that prohibit uh bus systems that take federal funds from being used for school transportation. So to the extent that we plan a service that is specifically designed to replace a yellow school bus, that is a violation of federal regulations.

Right. I and I don't want to cut off, but I I don't want I'm not saying we are becoming the school bus route, the school bus providers or the school providers for buses. more so resource stacking around uh educational institutions or eleas becoming safer. There's a safety component wrership increase um in those settings. Are there any types of resource stacking where there's some creativity um without having to designate the purpose of a city bus with federal resources to become the school bus uh or student transportation provider? So the best example is the partnership that we have around safe routes to schools. So safe routes to schools is a federally funded program. Uh it used to be administered by the city. Uh but we found it challenging uh because a lot of it was getting in uh integrated into the curriculum getting in front getting you know into schools uh into students. And so we reached out to DPS several years ago and suggested that we would sponsor basically those federal funds that come from uh from the federal government to go to DPS and then they would build their own staff. So they have multiple staff now at DPS who are uh providing information about pedestrian safety, about bicycle riding, about how to ride a transit bus. Uh and we've had a really strong partnership. We continue to work closely uh with the safe routes to schools team. Uh and it's

been a great example of of how we can work together, leverage that federal funding, um but make sure that we're getting uh good information uh and providing that uh travel training to students. Uh and the DPS folks uh on that team uh have have been excellent for us to work with. Thank you,

Mr. Tab.

Thank you. Good morning to everyone. Um, Mayor Williams hit on something that I was going to mention. Um, and that is we're going to have people who are going to be for and against and some of them will come out strong about these cameras. Um, and so we just have to be prepared for, you know, for that. I do want to um to raise this um notion about when you're using cameras, we have to also be concerned about um the data of what areas people are going to say that we're utilizing more officers in this particular area and um then it's unfair. You know, you got we just have to be aware of those those kinds of things. And I do want to offer, do we have areas where we're utilizing the radar uh speed signs more that with the LED lighting that tells you what your speed is? Uh I know a lot of areas use that in lie of uh writing a lot of tickets. So, but I'm wondering in Durham, do we actually utilize um letting us know this is your speed and is it effective or do we have any data on that?

So, whenever we put up those radar, those your speed signs, they collect uh the speed of every single vehicle and we capture that data and then we can do analysis on that data. What we find with our analysis is that when a lot of them

you'll see are kind of on a trailer. They're they're they're designed to be mobile. Uh when they're first deployed, we see reductions and then uh after a few weeks, sometimes a few months, the behavior essentially because there's no consequence to it to the excessive speeding um the behavior that basically returns and we go we go back to the baseline. Uh so some of them are and some of them are fixed like on uh Gregson Street for example there's a location that's been fixed. We have not seen that to be effective in reducing speeds. There's that initial response where people are thinking about it and then once they get used to it and they know that there's no consequence associated uh with that excessive speeding uh the the speeds return to baseline. Well, I tell you, it works for me. So, I don't I don't know about anybody else, but uh I don't need any more tickets. So, it works for me. [laughter]

Get a sense of the table.

Are you done? Okay. Mr. Mr. Kase,

good morning everyone. Um this conversation really touched on two things that I really love. Collective impact and community education. Thank you for the presentation and the great discussion. Um do I do want to just reflect the fact that when we have these public meetings and these great Q&A sessions that's community education as well. Um this discussion is also informing the community about what we're thinking about these things. Um my my one question is this. Um one thing that the community may not be aware of because they're not deeply into the details like many of us are here. Are we talking about two sets of cameras? a stop on camera as well as cameras that are placed in neighborhoods around school zones. That that's that's not really clear in what we've heard so far. Thank you for that question. So, we are talking about two different sets of

cameras. One set being sets of cameras that are uh affixed to our yellow school buses that will be um monitoring for um drivers who are violating the stop arm. Meaning that once the is out. The stop sign is out and they pass that that school bus. That is one um camera system. The second and which many of these companies they they do both things. Um so we will want to partner with one company that could that could do both things. Um the second one is the school zone cameras u where there would be a camera at like e either end of the school zone that would capture that information as well. Thank you for for bringing that up for clarification.

All right. Um, Mayor Pro Tim,

thank you. And then with the with the second kind of camera, that's just basically a motion thing like it's just going to capture you if you're going faster. It's not just constantly recording.

So, the information that we've gathered so far um is that that it can be set for different times. It could be set for, you know, just throwing this out there for an example, 30 minutes prior to the start of the school day and 30 minutes after. So it will have like a run time like at the middle school it'll run from you know 8 to 9 during during prime time or and then again at dismissal it can have that kind of um functionality. Um I think that of course we wouldn't be able to turn the cameras off. So if you drive through there at 12:00 um I think that the cameras probably would be able to still capture you but I'm not sure exactly what that would look like as far as enforcement is concerned. But again these are all the the details that we work out with the company um and make sure that that is one is collective amongst everyone here and make sure that our community knows like what the specifics are surrounding that.

Yeah, I think it's one thing to have timed thing versus constantly recording. So I think that that being vendors who

can meet that need or have that ability to turn things off I think is critical. I just want to remind folks it doesn't really matter like we know that the the different law regardless of quote who has access to data if there's an appropriate warrant appropriate process they can and that's current now right like that doesn't change so I just I do want to remind folks that like we we think we have all these safety things already we don't um and so that doesn't mean you can't put as many guard rails as possible on a thing um but I want to remind that and I think when we talk about the community engagement I really hope that DPS staff talk to city staff. We have an entire engagement department. The city does an incredible job. We run participatory budgeting. We run budget workshops every fall. We do community engagement very very well. Um and so I hope you lean on on us. We've had we've done many rounds around tech at this point in the city of Durham. Um I can uh I think we've done at least four around this issue. So we're very we're veteran with this question. Um, and so again, talking to our uh law or our city attorney's office, really structuring what kind of contract you want with the vendor, you know, who does what. You do have choices. Even if they say you don't have choices, you do actually have choices because if they want the money, they're going to do the thing, right? And so, uh, I I just want to really lean in on that to please look to others for that expertise. Um, and then I think the the question on sidewalks that actually didn't get answered. The city funds sidewalks in city limits. Not all school sites are in city limits. We do not pay for infrastructure that is outside of city limits. And there is a lot of um complic complicated factors of even, you know, okay, we're going to build a sidewalk outside of out in the county. You'd think it'd be straightforward. It's not. So, I just want to flag that because it's been like every two years, every three years this comes up. I will say that almost every single reasonzoning that comes to the city of Durham and has four years has voluntary profers from our development

community that just goes to DPS. Like you could use you could earmark that. It just goes into your general fund as far as I'm concerned. You could earmark that for infrastructure around schools. Like y'all have choices there. I don't know what you're but we just the once there's a certificate of occupancy that money just goes to DPS. Um, and so that's a that's a question. And then, and I'm just going to put the county on the spot here. They're not going to like it. The transit fund can also fund infrastructure outside uh for certain things. It is not what it is used for currently, but there's no reason not to, right? So, I'm just offering these things as all kinds of ways that infrastructure can get built around our school buildings. Um, I will say that it is a priority of ours. I will say that um the the bond in 2024 was a huge success and it was also run on an Evener which was a first for a municipal infrastructure bond. Um sidewalks and street improvements for the city are consistently ranked as one of the highest priority of city residents in our surveys. So running another additional to our CIP, thinking about another bond, identifying those things, that's another um tool that is asking residents to increase their own taxes, but at least it's asking them versus just us doing it to them. Um that's all. Thank you.

And ju just one part on that. We have enough city on streets. Sorry, chair. Uh city on streets to stretch from Durham, North Carolina to Dallas, Texas. And if we were to put sidewalks along every one of them, it will cost $119 billion. So, we have a long way to go. We'll just make it a life priority.

All right. Thank you, Council Member Wrist.

Thanks, Madam Chair. Um, great conversation and again, thanks Mr. White for for your comments. I want to go back to your like highlevel goal, right? So, the goal here, it's not about profit, right? It's about safety for kids and getting them on time. That's that's the key thing, right? So I I was just want to say like this idea of like having cameras that collect fees for a private

entity and also pay for school guards. I just got a lot of heartburn about that. It just feels like sort of like ultimately feels like a predatory thing. We're collecting fees to pay for program. I wanna I want to go back to um member Ben Kave's comment about are we thinking about all the options because one thing we haven't talked about and I appreciate Sean all the stuff you mentioned about about sort of speed bumps and all that kind of stuff traffic calming but one thing we haven't talked about are um school streets or car-free school zones right that many communities around the country have I know LA New York San Francisco have those where we close the streets in front of schools during in the morning and the afternoon is that something we've considered where are we on that because I know as a member of BPAC I know we talk and I've been at a ton of conferences as Sean has as well about bike and pedestrian stuff. Closing streets in front of schools would be a way to ensure for sure that there's not unsafe behavior, but also could address some of this kind of, you know, the utilization people not really using that this crossing guards. If we close those streets in front of schools, we can ensure safety. And again, that's a vision zero thing, right? We got to design safer environments for kids, right? So they're not in conflict with cars. So, where are we on conversations about actually closing streets in front of schools? And I know not every school could do that where they are, but a lot of streets and neighborhoods or a lot of schools and neighborhoods could do that. So, is that not an option?

Thank you for your comments.

Um, I have not engaged in any conversations around closing off the streets in front of um, schools. um my my initial I think that that would that's definitely an interesting um and innovative way to kind of look at the the the problem solving um and if there are conversations around that I would love to be um at the table and um being able to kind of help work through that. Um, as far as the um the stop arm program being the sole funer for the crossing guards, I I would like to say I

I I was very u I I use the word supplement because I don't believe that I mean again we don't I the goal is not to go for profit and that's why I'm not saying oh just remove all funding for crossing guards and Durham public schools is going to be responsible because a lot of the data um that we've seen is that initially the um the violations are up, but the goal is to reduce violations and like reduce the instances of people um violating the laws and if you look at it that way as the violations go down there lies the revenue as well. So that would go down. So again, as we are moving to this model, I think we also want to be very cautious about where we are before we say, hey, we just going to take on we D public schools is going to take on everything before we know kind of where we are. That's why I was very careful about using the word supplement um versus we would take it on um initially because it's again it's not for it's not 100% for profit. Yes, there's um there are dollars attached to it, but um if our goal is safety and making sure our students are, you know, safe when they're traveling to and from school, um we can't solely look at the dollar amount. The dollar amount is extra. It's icing on the cake, I would say, in comparison to the the the first goal of the initiative. That makes sense.

Appreciate that. And I wonder I wonder director Egan if you might comment on the on the carfree school zones and I know there's like competing priorities. There's like there's safety there's folks want to get to where like I'd love your thoughts on that.

So right now we have established 55 school zone locations across Durham. Many of them are not right in front of the school, but they're along a road that's used to access the school. So, uh, and we're seeing, um, you know,

significant, uh, speeding issues. We we hear about it from the crossing guards, uh, the amount of speeding that is going on on on roadways that are around the corner from a school. So, a lot of our school zone locations are not just this the the stretch, you know, the the frontage where the u where the school building is, but it's on those key points of access. Those key points of access are also major arterial connectors across our community that are used by tens of thousands of vehicles every day. So I I think there may be a few cases where uh that could be something right in front of a school location. Uh but uh between the number of those locations that are on state roadways uh which would be very challenging to close and then the number that are on uh arterials that are carrying 10,000 or more vehicles a day. the the disruption. We already have a very constrained roadway network in Durham. We have a lot of deadend streets uh that don't connect to each other. And so the idea that we would close off some key connectors that are that are used u by uh by tens of thousands of people every day. Um, and then I think the other piece of it is I don't know what the stats are, but um, there's a very large share of families that drive their kids to school. They drop them off in a car. So, how do you manage that? If you've closed the street in front of the school, how do you manage pickup and drop off? Um, I don't know what the share of families is, but it's as a as a DPS parent, I can tell you that um the car lines are very long at pickup and drop off every day. Uh, I I get to see

them from a bike, so um I I I get to skip them, but uh they're long every day. Uh and so managing that pickup and drop off uh I think would be another really critical issue uh for making sure that kids can get safely to and from school.

Appreciate that. You know, and that raises a larger philosophical question, right? So we create incentives for car drivers all the time. So when do we create incentives not to be in a car? But that's probably a larger conversation.

Commissioner Jacobs and then board member Kave.

Oh, no. I'm good.

You're good. All right. Commissioner. Uh well, this has been a great conversation this morning and really important. Um I just want to follow up on a few things. One is um for the school board, you know, I love I love the idea of pilots. Um pilots, it gives you the opportunity to try things out without a huge commitment. So even, you know, um just thinking about that with how you approach, you know, moving forward. Um I also appreciate all the conversation about da you know making datadriven decisions but at the end of the day it will you know we're all going to manage as different people have said um different issues. Um so uh but we know that the safety of our students is number one. Um I did want to um also give the perspective that um because I've been involved in just regional transportation for a while is that you know speeding is a national issue. Um since the pandemic we have seen the change in behavior of drivers in this country and it's a problem and it's a it's really really it's a it's a big issue. Um, and it does come down to behavior and it is a national crisis that we're seeing and here in Durham and in North Carolina. Um, I love the

comments about how do we help educate um, bus riders and I think that is really key. I was at a transit conference in Portland. they actually had youth ambassadors who were like helping actually older adults um to get used to riding the bus. So, we can think of some great ways, you know, Bike Durham is is an awesome nonprofit partner now that the Safe Roots to Schools program is in the schools, but I think and I think that also could be a way to help manage behavior also. So, I think that sounds really exciting. Um, I do want to mention, I know the Durham County Transit Plan was mentioned. Just want for education of everyone. We have a finite half cent sales tax for transit. We have an adopted 20-year plan. Is that right, Ellen? We already have a plan that's projected 20 years out of how that money is projected to be spent. Um, 75% of that goes for bus service. Um and that is already spoken for 20 years out. Uh and also to only tw 25% is for regional transit and that means things like implementing bus rapid transit which we know is expensive but really key for Durham and for creating regional connections. So, um, you know, if you want to take money out of that for sidewalks, then it's going to take away from other things that are already actually allocated in the plan. So, I just wanted to give that perspective. Also, um, microtransit. Um, this is Commissioner Burton brought this up. I wonder if Ellen or Sean could talk about the microtransit program. It's a pilot that the city and the county are doing together where we found that majority of people using it are kids going to school. Um, and I I I think I would like

us to learn more about that because there's also the question of is it cheaper, more cost-effective to expand our microtransit program rather than to put another bus on the road? Uh, the cost of the bus, the cost of the driver. So I I think when talks about when we're talking about data we need to look at that and think about that and I wonder so two things if you could tell us more about the data from that program who it's serving who's using it the costs what are the ideas about that moving forward and the second is related to the um sidewalk um we just this is the first time the city and the county have done a a countywide I plan city and county together. Actually, we haven't heard the results of that yet. But also, one of the issues being addressed is as um count uh Mayor Prom mentioned, we have a problem with sidewalks in the county that was flagged as something that we need to work on. I don't know if you all are prepared, Ellen and Sean, to talk about the recommendations on that, but anyway, those are the two things I just wanted to flag for followup. Uh so uh we have what we call the go Durham connect microtransit program. So we've established two zones uh one in East Durham, one in North Durham. Uh the North Durham one goes all the way up to the Treyburn uh research park. So uh we uh have been [clears throat] doing a lot of work uh to get the word out about the program. The idea is that we we have what we call a first mile last mile problem in transit where people who live more than a mile away uh from a bus stop can't get to the system uh in an efficient way. And so the idea of the

microtransit is that you can call um and a vehicle that looks like an Uber or a lift will come and pick you up um and then it'll take you to a bus stop and then you can hop on that next bus uh and be on your way. Um and you can also travel pointtooint within the zone. So families in North Durham for example because of this can travel to the Museum of Life and Science which is part of the north zone. So that's been a key partnership. Actually, if you go to the Museum of Life and Science, one of the first things you see when you walk up to the front door is uh uh pro a sign promoting the Go Durham Connect uh program. So we've seen continued growth uh in the utilization of that. I can follow up with specific numbers. Uh it's funded at about $700,000 a year. uh to put you in put that in context um that's about what it costs to run a bus for a year, one single bus. Um, so we're providing uh really critical connectivity uh to places that are hard to reach. Like the Wheels Fund Park, for example, is not close to a bus stop, but we know that a lot of residents and families want to get to Wheels and some other uh of our DPR uh facilities, for example. So, this is a way for uh transit to be used to make those first mile, last mile connections. uh and uh it has uh been very cost-effective uh in terms of providing really broad access to areas uh that are difficult to serve with a with a 40 foot bus. And so for the cost of uh running a full a 40 foot bus for a year, we're able to provide coverage across North Durham and East Durham. And then Ellen, do you want to speak about the uh bikewalk update?

Good morning. I'm Ellen Beckman, uh, Durham County Transportation Director. Um, and uh before I talk about the bikewalk plan, just to add on to the the microtransit pilot, uh we did get some statistics back in April that we presented to the board of commissioners that uh there were about 8,000 trips and about 700 of those were to DPS locations. So, I know it's um serving some of those areas that are hard to reach as Sean mentioned. um schools like the school for creative studies, Neil Middle School, um Oakrove, you know, some of those schools that are kind of out there on the periphery. Um um and so for the bikewalk plan, yes, we have been working with the city uh over the past couple years on the development of that bikewalk plan. Um it is in its final stages. Uh there are some issues though that we need to work through before we can bring it forward. Um and one of those is the um responsibility for maintaining sidewalks in the county. Um we've kind of run into some legal issues about that. So we're trying to work through that. Um when I think Sean gave a good overview of it of how it identified, you know, 25 locations um and corridors and intersections. Um, I know that several of the locations that you guys have mentioned this morning were recommendations. So like Riverside High School, I know there that's one of the prioritized corridors. Um, and uh, Hope Valley, I think the Chapel Hill Road was one of those prioritized corridors. Um, for the county uh, projects in that plan. Um, you know, the vast majority of sidewalk needs are in the city. you know, certainly want to recognize that, you know, it is not going to be possible to build sidewalk

throughout like rural Durham County. Uh so for the county, we're mostly looking at those areas that are right on the edge. And all four of the, you know, county projects that we prioritized were near schools. So places like Oakrove Elementary, Lion's Farm, Neil, Southern High School, and Forest View Elementary School. So think of those areas. Um and in each of those locations, you know, we looked at the network and looked at what gaps were there and made some recommendations. Um I think all of those recommendations included networks that span city and county. like you couldn't really you can't really build an effective sidewalk network in those areas without going between city county city county because as you know you know these the parcels the individual parcels are annexed and um those don't always correspond to a corridor so um I do think this is an issue that we that Durham County does hope to work through with the city to identify how we can um address areas like that on the edge. Um, so it is not ready to be brought forward for adoption yet, but uh, this is one of those topics that we need to iron out before it can be brought forward.

Thank you.

All right, colleagues, are there any other questions or comments before we Okay, Miss Rivero,

thank you. I just had one um, final comment. Uh, I know I just wanted to be very clear. I know we've been talking a lot about um attendance and uh security cameras on buses, etc. And it just seems as though we're all kind of feeling a little hesitant in some ways. I know myself I am on just what that looks like. Um who has access, how to keep people safe. Um, so I I would just just lean on the side of

caution of finding other solutions first um before we go to the big one of like the cameras that we're all that many of us are feeling really unsure about. So if I so I'm so glad that um um member Jacobs was even mentioning like what are the other options as well as council morris what are the other options and just keeping that as the forefront of keep trying to think about what a pilot what can we pilot at the schools maybe this year maybe next year that we can get some more data around what are the other options before we go to this one that we already know is going to be controversial we already know um there's a lot of overreach streets that's happening. So, I just want to say that. And then the last thing I want to say and I would be remiss if I didn't say it is just the bike bus. I know we keep talking a lot about what what can we do? And the bike bus is something that some schools are piloting and trying where kids get to school not on bikes bike I mean not on buses but on bikes and they co in big masses of 50 plus kids getting to school. So just thinking through like how do we utilize the resources we currently have so that we don't get oursel into this sticky situation where we're we're feeling a little bit uneasy of how can we actually protect our families? How do we actually protect our students? Um while also really wanting safety for our students. So I just want to throw that out there and just kind of leave it at that. So thank you all. Thank you for your presentations. Thank you for everyone that's spoken so far.

Thank you Miss Rivero. Um my only other final comment um very short is just what I'm thinking about as we've had this robust conversation is just around um our community engagement and our community guard rails around their safety. And so I'm hearing administration like because this is ultimately coming back to the school board around um these conversations that are going on with the contractors and what they're going to be a able to offer. And part of that discussion is what their community engagement plans

look like. And so, um, I'm looking forward to understanding more, um, as we get more information about these different contractors and they're exploring the cameras, what that community engagement process will look like and how, um, we'll be able to understand what the guard rails for the community are around their safety, what their temperament is, you know, for um, these kinds of of surveillances and things like this and how that can also inform um decisions we make around you know transportation and our safety in general. So curious to see how how that comes forward. So very interested in that. Um if there are any other comments or questions or if not um Oh Dr. Lewis. Yeah, I'll just um reiterate um the fact that cameras on buses are not new. Um we have I think everyone understands we have cameras that are always recording um on our buses. Uh these cameras would go out as I mentioned when the stop sign goes out. I think it also allows an opportunity to take the bias out of uh some traffic violations. um you know police officers keep what they call stop um data and it's just generally the making model of the of the car but there are al some the other some there are other descriptors of cars that they don't keep data on that bias tends to play in for example if you see a a low rider truck riding down the street you probably know can make some assumptions of who may be riding in in that car or some cars on rims right um so I think it allow us to take the bias out of it and also when you think about just our current ridership ship for our city transit is around 1% of our students uh they're participating in the safe routes to school survey that they administer every March in um November. It's about 1% with um I think northern in hillside

um taking advantage of of of bus stops. And so also wanted to remind uh this uh these boards and our public is that we have a tremendous amount of resources on our website under transportation services the safe roster schools. We have the um um micro uh transit transit guides on there as well that tells families that every 30 minutes this bus stops at this school or every 15 minutes for Jordan and um Hillside every 15 minutes uh the bus stops there. So there is some data that we can continue to to leverage and um one of the open-ended questions that we're asking that survey is what are some of the barriers that you feel in terms of um getting to school and reckless driving and construction and traffic was was one of those. And so the more that we can provide safe opportunities for our scholars to get to school and on time, you saw those high school numbers.

A biggest implication of that is our high schools are making programmatic and shift shifts in their systems within their schools, i.e. not putting their core curriculum classes at the first period because the buses can't get to and that should not be. you know, our jobs is to make sure we're getting the kids to school on time and high schools should should structure their day, uh, based on best practices. And so, uh, excited about the continued conversation as we work to, um, keep our students and community safe and get our students to school on time.

Thank you, Dr. Lewis.

All right. Oh, and

I'm sorry. I feel like I feel like I need to say this because I'm just traumatized. Um, when it comes to the big bag surveillance conversation, um, I I feel like I'm not in my own interest, but I I do feel like I need to say this for the folks that constantly do reach out and say, uh, where they request these types of, um, these types of resources. It is a part of our reality now that there are cameras around us. Um, including these devices that are filled with AI and yet, you know, there's a big

public debate about anti-AI. So, I just want to be able to function in reality on it. And I also want to highlight my appreciation for the cautionary approach that we're having around this table. Um because it's easy it's easy to be reckless and just say yeah go with it. So I appreciate that. But I also want to be very clear. We can ask as many questions as we want. At the end of the day we're going to have a purpose to fulfill and that's going to be policy and there are folks that are asking every day that right now why don't you all put more cameras out here and they do not look like the folks that come to our meetings and say we don't want surveillance in Durham. So, I just want to put that reality out there and that's what we going to have to struggle with when we have it when we have these meetings and who comes to talk to us and also listen to who don't come talk to us.

That's it. Thank you.

Yeah, I appreciate those comments and um Oh,

mine's just a logistical. We had talked through the meeting schedule. I just don't want to adjourn us before and I I'm not seeing invitations on calendar because we had the leadership team meeting in July around we had moved some of the meetings around uh to because technically we wouldn't meet with DPS and again all three boards until February and there was a decision made to do another all three boards and I just don't remember the date on that and so I'm looking for staff because since everyone's here I want to flag it and I want to flag what the agenda items are because that already got decided. Um, that's what I thought, but I'm not seeing I just want to go it's I think it's helpful to go ahead and state when the next meeting is and at what time and where it's going to be because then it's been stated for agenda

and what the agenda is. And I thought that there was staff that took that information down at that leadership team meeting in July.

Oh, thank you. Good morning.

Monica Wallace, clerk um for Durham County. So, I was just speaking with the clerks and the admin for DPS and for the city and we just wanted to make sure we

had it on our end as well because of some of the changes. So, I'm showing here our next combined meeting. It was actually scheduled as a city county meeting, but we are adding DPS. That meeting is scheduled for October the 13th at 9:30 a.m. It will be hosted by the city. And the agenda topics for that meeting that are listed is Durham minimum livable wage. Okay. You're requesting a presentation from Sally Hajes, Copel NC Budget and Tax Center as well as a 2027 joint city county committee meeting calendar. So I guess we'll be approving the calendar for the next year.

Thank you. I love when we did good work at some point. Um that that was my only uh I just wanted to make sure that folks had that information. Thank you so much. And and [clears throat] I'm sorry if I could also just add you all have a city county DPS leadership meeting on September the 1st at 3 PM.

Okay, hold on.

But that leadership that's that's just that's that's

that's just the leadership that's not including the full board.

So September 1st is Yeah. Okay. I I have that one. Thank you.

All right. At at the beginning of the meeting, we didn't have a um we didn't have quorum. So, we didn't approve um the minutes. So, at this time, I can entertain a motion to approve the minutes

or Thank you.

I'm sorry. We do not have a quorum for the city. Can I mean for the county, can we still do the vote because the minute meetings, one is for city, county, and one is forum city and I mean county and DPS

and we do not have a quorum for the county. So, we did, but now we don't. So,

right. So, we I've already spoken with the clerk, so we'll just move all of the minutes over. Since all three groups will be here in October, we'll move them all over for a vote at the October meeting.

All right. Thank you for that. Okay. Well, um I see Wendy Jacobs. Um, just

related to agenda items, one is could we, it could just be in the form of maybe a written report, but just to keep following up on the transportation stuff that we discussed today. If we could just have any some type of follow-up information or update would be great. Um, and I did want to ask if we could briefly talk about one thing, which is um, whether we want to try to have a coordinated strategy between each elected body around the upcoming referendum, state referendum on property tax, limiting local government's property tax revenues that affects each of our bodies. Um, I was uh recently at our National Association of County Commissioners Midsize County Caucus. There was robust conversation about this issue because this is a national issue that's happening all over the country. And [clears throat] one of the county commissioners emphasized that we have a responsibility just like we do with bond referendums. We have a responsibility to educate the community about number one what what is property tax, you know, how are we spending our dollars locally for property tax? You know, what is the role of property tax on our communities? And number two, what will actually be factual information about the impact of local governments not having adequate property tax revenue? And one commissioner literally said, "We need to be putting it out there and explaining if we don't have enough money, which you know, which program are you willing not to fund?" um and putting money to the program and that that is incumbent upon us

as elected officials. And so I'm just wondering can we start we in the past

we've had blue ribbon committees to promote bonds do we have that do we get our PIOS together but I just want to to have a conversation with everyone about this and it's timesensitive.

Hi Mayor Proam. Thank you. Um, Commissioner Jacobs, if you're comfortable, we have a leadership team meeting on September 1st, so we can at least take up the topic and figure out, you know, if chairs can have conver because historically what's happened is there's been folks identified from council or county commission to be the lead on a thing as an elected and so we can have conversations there um saying, you know, who who's going to talk to their board members to see who wants to lead a commission or whatnot. Um there we could talk through is there an opportunity to do a joint op-ed that we run all together. You know, I think that there's some opportunity. I don't at the late hour want to talk through that, but I do I do want to flag it for city and county and DPS staff if we can just make sure we have that as the agenda and as an agenda item on September 1st. I'm seeing some head nods

and also including in that a broader communitywide effort where we involve the business community kind of like what we do with bonds, not just

we agreed. So, we can we can make sure to talk about that. And if that ends up being like something that staff says we really need the electives to take the lead, I'm happy to to make sure we talk through that carefully on September 1st.

All right.

I just want to be clear on the follow-up transportation items. I did hear Commissioner Jacobs mention a potential written report at the October one. Is that something we also want to talk talk about at the September meeting in terms of how we

think through agenda items carefully and and how much time we want to allocate? This was great because we had only one big robust, but I we have a few on the October one, so we'll just have to think through the timing of that.

I think that's probably a lesson learned for future meetings. Maybe one topic is enough.

All right. Well, um I'm going to slide on down here to public comment. Is there anyone here for public comment? All right. Seeing no one um we are

at adjournment. So at this time the meeting is adjourned. Thank you.