Environmental Advisory Board Meeting

Yeah.

You want me to

Good evening. Uh I am calling to order the Environmental Advisory Board uh for August 20th, 2026. It is uh 6:00 p.m. Um can um pledge of allegiance. Yeah. Can we stand for the pledge of allegiance, please?

Oh my gosh. [laughter]

Um, okay. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under Godisible and justice for all.

Thank you everyone. Uh sorry about that. Um I uh would like to say good evening to everyone. Um everyone here uh presidents of Apex makes me very happy to see your faces here. Um, returning board members, uh, new board members. Um, we have, uh, Courtney. Welcome, Courtney. Um, we have Kim, right? And Romesh. Um, Kim, you are returning board member. So,

from years ago.

From years ago. All right. Um, Apex staff and, uh, council member, welcome. Um so um [clears throat] first uh approval of minutes uh for May 21st, 2026. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes?

I'll make a motion.

Do I have a second?

Second.

I have a item to um in the meeting minutes from the data center number five meeting. It was not captured on page eight around lines nine and 10. I had asked if any

municipalities had taken the revenue from the data centers and set up something like Alaska has for their oil and gas revenues to share them back with the community and Bruce had mentioned that he wasn't aware of any. I would just like that captured in those minutes.

A motion for that. Do I have a second?

Yeah, I can second on that.

All right. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Um, do I have a motion to approve the minutes for June 18th, 2026?

Doing these all as one motion or

um not sure.

Oh, okay. Do I have a motion to approve all the minutes for the um the two last um EAB meetings and the data center subcommittee and the tree canopy subcommittee?

I move they be adopted with the adjustments that were made by

second.

Second. All right. [clears throat] Um

got a vote.

We got a vote.

Yeah.

Okay. All in favor.

All in favor? I

I All right. Thank you. Sorry. Uh first time doing this. Thank you, Suzanne. Um All right. Uh I would like to move on to the public comment period. All right. Um All right. U first on the list is Melinda Salter.

[clears throat]

And Melinda, you're speaking for a group. Is that correct?

A group of four that will not be speaking.

Okay. Thank you.

So, I just want to remind you that you have nine minutes.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Vay. Okay. And members of the board, would everyone from the Groves please stand?

Thank you. My name is Melinda Salter. I live at 129 Old Grove Lane. And I'm speaking tonight as a representative who's able to attend on behalf of the Groves and several adjoining neighborhoods that are impacted by the property at 1328 Center Street. I'm not speaking only to my own concerns tonight. I'm carrying the concerns of neighbors who could not be here on this short notice, each of whom would ordinarily have stood up individually to speak to a piece of this case. I want to begin by thanking the board for this opportunity. Case 26Z CZ13 does not require a hearing before you. The parcel comes in at 4.42 acres, just under the 10 acre threshold that would trigger the EAB re. I'm here anyway because the question this project questions this project raises are exactly the questions this board exists to ask. First, why am I the one standing here? My property backs directly onto this site. My patio looks onto this parcel and so does my bedroom window. Under the plan already approved for this land in 2024, that meant a 30foot buffer and a two-story building on the other side of it. Under what's proposed now, that becomes a 15t buffer and a 54 foot fourstory building. That is what I will see every time I step onto my patio or look out the window. Second, the exemption itself. This land came before this board in January of 2024. The developer accepted 12 environmental conditions as a result. Protections for the stream buffer, native plantings, tree diversity, dark skylighting. That same land now proposed for a taller denser project is exempt from this board's review entirely because of this acreage line. The result, two voluntary

conditions, a storm water standard and two pet waste stations. That is the entire environmental commitment for a project four times denser what stood there before. Third, water in the creek. This site sits within a watershed protection overlay. Our understanding is the Middle Creek wershed, though the application's own documents don't even agree with each other on this point. And I'd ask the board to board to help clarify. What is not in dispute is the scale of new imperous surface, roughly 130 apartment units, plus parking and driveways, replacing what is largely open ground today. The 2024 review secured a real condition that postdevelopment runoff not exceeded pre-development runoff measured against the one-year, 10year, and 25-year storms and a rule against clearing the buff the stream buffer. Neither is guaranteed at this time. Fourth, trees buffer and wildlife. A mature stand of trees and a vegetated buffer currently separates this site site from the town houses behind it. The 12 conditions this board negotiated in 2024, native plantings chosen for pollinator and bird food sources, a minimum of three hardwood species, dark sky compliant lighting to protect nocturnal wildlife apply only if the smaller fallback plan gets built, not the apartment plan actually being proposed. The habitat protections this bo board fought for are optional under the primary request in front of the town. Fifth, traffic as an environmental question, not just a congestion one. Density on this site nearly quadruples for roughly seven units per acre per acre to nearly 27. That means more vehicle emissions, more oil and

particulate runoff on a corridor corridor whose planned widening remains unfunded by the state until at least 2035. Landing buffers landing on buffers that are at the same time being cut in half. Sixth, construction itself. Before any tune tun tenant moves in, this community will absorb months or years of heavy equipment working ground that sits above a creek and directly above our homes. Dust in the air and without careful erosion and sediment control, slit and runoff reaching Middle Creek and our yards with every storm during the build. Sediment control this close to water is precisely the kind of condition this board would ordinarily attach. This project was not required to ask.

[clears throat]

So my request tonight is three-fold and it does not require this board to exceed its authority. First, consider going on record noting that this parcel received full environmental review and 12 accepted conditions in 2024 and recommend those same protections be expected again regardless of the exemption. Second, consider recommending council revisit the 10 acre threshold itself. And third, if there's any mechanism for this board to send its own environmental concerns to town council ahead of the planning board and council hearings later this year, I ask that you use it. This community is not opposed to housing. We're asking that whatever gets built on this land be held to the same environmental standard the last plan for this exact site was held to, not a lesser one, simply because fewer of fewer of us could be in this room tonight to say so ourselves. Thank you for your time and for the work that the board does. I'm glad to answer any questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Alter.

Richard Hayden.

Mr. Hayden, if you can state your name

and address, please. And you have one. You have three minutes. I'm sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. My name is Richard Hayden. Excuse me. My wife and I own and live at 51 Old Grave Grove Lane here in Apex, and we have done so since 2009 when our house was built. Having sought the perfect place to spend our retirement years, we were pleased to find Apex, and it has become our peak of good living. Not a joke. It's everything that our son-in-law, Lauren Gold, executive vice president of the Raleigh Convention and Visitors Bureau, told us it would be. Thank you for the opportunity to share some thoughts with you concerning the resoning request by TWWC Development and Morning Star Law Group. The developer proposes construction of a planned unit development project consisting of 132 unit fourstory walk up highdensity affordable housing apartment complex on land unsuited for this use. uh if they are going to be permitted to undertake the project, I believe it'll negatively impact the environment of our town of Apex. The minute goes by very, very quickly. They're presenting a project that by virtue of what is happening, it does not maintain and acknowledge the natural terrain to a reasonable extent and practical. They do not maintain and encourage native plant and wildlife species. They do not prov improve bicycle and pedestrian uh environment. They do not consider the visual aesthetics as they pertain to the natural environment. They do not preserve and/or improve shade and tree canopy. They do not improve the current environmental protections and they do not reduce waste. They do not reduce the town's carbon footprint. and the project negatively impacts Apex maintaining both its Tree City USA and B City USA

designations. I also believe the applicant's plan project would be a blight on the environment to what visitors to our community would encounter as they enter Apex from the east. Crossing US Highway 1, visitors headed toward our wonderful revitalized downtown first encounter the beautiful entry of our Waterford Green community. Next, they pass by the lovely Seagroves community and our town of Apex Seagroves Family Park. Then they encounter the delight de delightful Groves Town Homes community that is spread across both sides of Center Street. I hate to think of them seeing instead a group of fourstory walk up apartment buildings on the left side. Apartment buildings that will add nothing positive to the environment. Thank you. Any questions? Okay. Thank you. [clears throat] Bob Hle,

Pat Hle,

Laura Grimes,

uh, Robert Owen, 822 Myrtle Grove Lane. Uh my opinion is a little different. Uh we were told numerous times reminded that we have people who work for the city who cannot afford to live here and that has been a problem for a long time and it's worth addressing. Uh policemen, firemen, health care workers, teachers who must live out from the city to work here. And it would be worthwhile for that to be uh there's nothing contractual about that. It was more promisary in the domain I would call uh

truth in lending. And I hope that proves to be the truth. Uh I don't think we would have any recourse if it's not. But that's what we were told. I live on the north side of Center Street. There are times in the morning and afternoon when I cannot get in line to go downtown unless there's some kind person who will let me in. Uh people on the south side, if they are indeed city workers, are going to have extreme difficulty failing, being brave and aggressive to be able to get in line to go downtown. And I don't know of a solution for that. Thank you. Don Grimes. Yeah. Grimes. If you state your name and your address, please.

Okay. My name is Laura Grimes. I live at 210 South Salem Street. Um, and I do own a My husband and I own a property in the Gloves and we're very proud of having owned it. We think that subdivision is just beautiful and uh we we feel very fortunate that we were able to buy buy a property there when we did. Um, but I'm I'm here to speak uh to you as environmentalists about this resoning that's coming up. Uh, as Melinda has pointed out, um, this has come up, this area has come up for reasonzoning several times and been, uh, the reasoning was declined. Um, and I don't think that this effort at resoning is serious either because they have a backup plan behind this plan. you

know, they've got this one for 132 units and they've got another one behind it for 30 units. Why two? You know, if you're serious. Um, but uh I'm really wanting to speak to you about a confluence of activities that are going on in the area near the resoning. Um the first one is that the property adjacent to uh immediately adjacent to uh the 1328 Center Street um has been sold and uh will probably be coming to you for uh consideration uh of redevelopment. That is the Calvary Chapel property. It doesn't look like a church. It looks like a commercial building, but um it has uh 9.4 acres and uh most of those acres are uh a heavily wooded parking area. And that the trees on that are gorgeous. really tall, really beautiful trees and uh something that if it were incorporated into a subdivision, a housing subdivision, it's laid out. It's already got lots of space in the middle, but the trees could be reserved, preserved, and uh well used, I think. And um like I said, it's been sold u and so I don't know what the developer's plans are, but if and when they come to you, it would make a very nice addition to the area. Um and uh so when you add the the 9.4 four acres there and the 4 point whatever acres that are in the current property

to be reszoned. You basically got a 15 acre area that's fairly flat. I mean, it's basically right up there to be uh reszoned. And um so that and if I can add one other point um this area is being um quote investigated and worked on studied by the department of transportation starting at um Shifflin Road and going down to Reliance Avenue. And this that particular area is being studied to redo to widen the road and to redo the intersection of Highway 1 and 10 road. And so the impact of traffic from this immediate area, this little plot of land right here in purple, um is that land and and the other land next to it are going to have a big impact on what they will be studying and what they decide to do. So, what I'd like to ask you to do is bring your attention to this collection of issues right at the very point that we're going to have a change in in uh things that are done by the Department of Transportation. So, thank you for giving me these few moments of your time. Thank

you, M. Grimes. Don Grimes.

Mr. Grimes, I think you state your name. [clears throat]

I'm Don Grimes. I live at 210 with Laura and we've been there for 36 years. Um, and we're fortunate enough for one of

these units, one of these very attractive units center on Center Street to come available. And uh we had been hoping one would for a long time. One finally did and we jumped on it. And uh we think that uh it's the nicest uh town home subdivision in Apex, both sides of the street. And uh we don't want to see something that is going to come in intrude vigorously and objectionably to the calmness, the serenity, the quiet of these communities. And uh here is the map or the sketch that was submitted by the petitioner. And uh it's within this section right here. All you see here and all that is on here essentially 95% of it are is fourtory apartment buildings four of them and the rest of it is essentially a parking lot. Now if that's not the definition of a heat island I don't know what is and this as my wife has indicated is a very very densely wooded area. you're going to have to go in there and there's no way that you could have this this particular development to take place unless you went in there and clearcut everything in it. That's the only way it could happen. So we beg of you to be sensitive to that fact and the fact that everything around it is very consistent uh very architecturally attractive and this would be a uh just really a an eyesore among other things. So anyway, thank you so much for your time. Resor, [clears throat]

Dennis Smith,

I'm not speaking.

And Griffith, Anita Albert, Dean Koopa. Hey Dean, if you could state your name and your address, please.

Good evening. U Dean Krupa, 2001 Sima Court. Um good evening uh EAB. I I I've been staying away from the local government for quite some time. Um uh I'm sure like a lot of us, we're frustrated with government at the national, state, and local levels. Um, I just feel like it's a frustrating process. There's a lot of bureaucracy. Um, but I have made some really neat connections over the last couple years and I have hope again. Um, especially with this group. I've worked with some of you. Um, Nora, oh Ann, I remember you. Um, but, uh, Daniel, we we met. We had a couple chance encounters. uh most recently at the the gardener pollinator event at the Apex Nature Park and there was a couple other chance encounters at the soccer field. So, we're meant to work together, I feel like. Um but I've been working with Trees for the Triangle. Um and I just joined their board of directors. Um and some of you have worked with them and as you know they're they're helping host the triangle symposium. Um amazing organization. Uh Dave Climpmp, who's the uh director, started it out of the back of his truck, uh you know, he was basically just out of college and um wanted to plant some trees. Um and it was just him and he's helped start a a tree archive in in Kerry. Um he inspired me to start my own archive which I've

worked dur and I try to start one here in Apex but unfortunately that fell through and we ended up finding one in u the Fukquay ETJ. Um and if not all of you know what an archive is. It's basically just a museum of trees. Um and we get a discounted rate from nurseries and we plant as many trees as we can there. We've had a few hundred volunteers come through in the eight months or so since it's been in in force. Um but we're also now working with other communities. Um so we reached out to um Smith Farm through help of Nora. We got some contacts there. Um we have a connection with um Salem Village and we're going to be planting some trees there. And it just reminds me that if you just get great people together that are caring and passionate, you could do really magical things. And I know you guys do that all the time here, but I know we feel we all feel like we could do more. And so I really want to partner with this group in my um connection with Trees for the Triangle. We're already working together, but there's so much more to be done. So, I look forward to more conversations with all of you. Um, I think I'm going to come back here and do a formal presentation about what we're all doing at Trees for the Triangle. And, um, I'm excited. I'm I'm frustrated, but I'm also excited. So, thank you very much. Have a good night.

Thank you. Appreciate that.

Terry I'm sorry, if you could state your name and address, please.

I'm Terry Eley. I live at 225 Old Grove Lane, and I bought my house last December. I picked it because the air quality was fantastic, the trees were beautiful, and there was wildlife, and

it was this unique little corner of Apex. and they knew that Apex really valued the quality of life of its residents above development unlike some of the other towns in North Carolina. So please, I am here to ask you to protect the property, protect the way of life, and maintain the standard of living in our community. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bob Owen. I believe You already went, Mr. Owen. Um, Stephen Edward Many. Mr. Man, if you could state your name and your address for Steve Edwards. I live at 101 Hay Bar and Court. I'm the president of the Seagrove Farm Town Home Association and on the board of the Seagrove Farm Master Homeowners Association. And I thank you for time to speak on this. Uh my concerns have to do with density and canopy. As president of the HOA, I get the letters from your town. We don't have enough trees in our front yards. And so I actually one of the few residents probably read most of the 600 pages in the planning document that specifies canopy. And I know it was really it was important enough to put that much paper into the document. And uh what really startled me when I showed up at the first hearing was the map that the gentleman just presented to you. It's all parking lot and building. I think there's maybe eight or 10 trees in the whole thing. And so as an environmental group, that probably should get some bells going on in your head. I just did a quick survey of the apartment communities near the proposed project. C Cambridge Village, the Broadstone, the two Broadstone communities, the two Meridian communities, the reserve at Mills Chase, the Reed Creek Crossing, they according to Wake County tax records represent

1420 units situated on 98 acres and their density averages out to 14 units per acre. The project before us is 32 Well, what is it? 232 by it's 34 units per acre. It's just a a gigantic jump in density squeezing a oversized project into an undersized lot. And so I also share all the concerns that have already been presented. The uh some of you might know me because for the last 30 years I've been able to referee basketball and volleyball at the youth and adult league levels in Apex. And so I've been called all sorts of names by Apex residents depending on quality of my call. But one of the rules they train us as referees is what you permit you promote. And there's nothing worse than being the referee that comes in the gym after two folks just didn't call anything the previous week. And now we're just enforcing the rules. And everybody's going, "Well, the last official didn't do it." I know you aren't required to look at this project, but if it comes out of the gate as planned and now the Calvary Calvary Chapel parcels on the table in play, there's nothing the town can do to say you can't do the same thing here. You can't make the same you can make the same mistakes because we let this group do it. And so setting that precedent, what you permit you'll promote. So, I think it is worth your time to take a closer look. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr.

[applause]

Laura Hughes,

Christa Torbeck,

Mary Edwards,

Barbara Raymond.

I think that concludes the list. Um, wanted to say thank you to all the Apex residents for making your way over here and speaking to the board. Um, want to just let you know that um, I know some of you asked the board if they had questions about uh, your your statement. Um, it is my understanding that the board cannot uh, speak back to you,

right? Um, I just want to let you know that that's not um a lack of caring or uh for a lack of caring or um you know, you know that we're not going to do anything about the your your concerns. Okay. But uh I do thank you for making your way over here. I appreciate that. [applause]

Are we allowed to ask staff questions about what they've presented?

That's a good question. Okay. So, my question is, um, because I wasn't here in 2024 when the original, uh, development came through, um, what was the size of that development compared to the 4.42 acres that they have, I guess, subdivided out in order to pursue it.

I I can speak to that. Um, it's the same properties that was included in the last resoning, which was approved. The proposal that that's being discussed today was the application was just submitted this month. Um and so it's under review um right now going through its very first review by by staff.

Okay. So I guess I'm unclear why it came in front of the board originally and why it's not now.

That when it came through the resoning was actually submitted a very long time before it actually got approved. Um it was submitted originally in 2022 and at that time the exemp size exemption for

resonings was 1 acre or less. I can't remember the exact year when the ordinance was amended but it was that was that threshold was changed to 10 acres.

You're welcome.

Any additional questions?

I'd like to move on to council member comments. Great. Uh, good evening everybody. Uh, welcome back from from summer. I hope you had a wonderful time. Um, I don't think we've seen each other since, uh, since June, right? And that was a meeting that was pretty short because we couldn't make quorum. So, it's been a really long time since we sat down here and had a meeting. So, it's good to see you all again. And, um, so my notes here from the last couple meetings, obviously town council and the rest of the town, uh, not a ton happened in in July. Um before we left though, uh obviously I wanted to mention we did make some appointments to the board. Um to our new members, uh welcome here. And that was a a little bit of a discussion because um the mayor wanted to defer all the appointments. I was like, wait a second, we're down a ton of people on EAB. So at least let's make the EAB appointments and uh we all agreed to do that. So we still have some pending ones to come. So uh for the new members, uh welcome. Uh I went through the meetings and uh I you know one of the things that I do here is is tell you what happened with the resonings. Uh I only found two that were kind of note since we last met. I think unless I'm I'm forgetting any I know that we had the budget in early June. And so there's just the last meeting in June, the council's first meeting in August and uh we had a Vidia resoning. I I don't know if you guys saw this one because it was uh it was mostly due to conditions related to the college that's coming. So they requested um Bidia had a a specific vision for how it would be laid out and that didn't quite work for Wake Tech who had you know was building a different type of product and they had so we modified some conditions on there that passed unanimously and I think back in June we had an amendment uh for Horton's

PUD which is a pretty big deal over in the the eastern part of town which again I'm not sure what came to you guys or not but it involved I think transportation amendments that we approved. Uh so that's kind of all that's happened at the council level. Uh the other thing that I want to talk about is uh we did approve and I remember telling you guys about this a UDO amendment to have resonings come back to the board for a recommendation. A little bit of back and forth there. It took a couple months that ultimately was approved by council in May. Um and we had some discussion about it. I wanted to let you know that um after talking to my colleagues and listening to public comment, I've agreed to voluntarily kind of recuse myself from those discussions because there was a thought that it's coming back to council and it was weird to have me influence what you guys might say and I'm fine with that because I I do want to hear what your opinions are. I don't necessarily want to be involved in what you're recommending for it. Uh so uh that'll kind of be the policy going forward is I won't be involved in any uh resoning cases. Days like today I might just leave if all that's left is resonings on the on the agenda. Um other days there may be other business afterwards. I'll just kind of be quiet for those meetings. Uh and that was something that I I think is is a good policy um you know to to let you guys do your work on those reszonings as we discussed. So uh that's all I had notes for. So, I'm happy uh happy to be back and uh welcome again and I'm happy to answer any of your questions if you have any about any of that stuff or or anything else or Star Wars trivia or whatever.

Uh Terry, I have a question. When can we expect the youth uh member?

The youth member?

Yeah,

hopefully at the next meeting.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, the youth member. Um, so yeah, we we have a bunch of appointments on next Tuesday, so [clears throat] we'll hopefully we'll we'll fill out the rest of our appointments at that point.

Daniel, can I have one question on this

one? Um um the one we talked about the center street development the density of the apartments went from seven units per acre to 27. Is that correct?

Sure.

The the reasonzoning that is proposed is is about that acreage. I don't have the application in front of me. Um but again that reasonzoning will not be coming before this board because it's less than 10 acres. So staff has heard all the concerns from the community. I've taken some notes and um we will pass along those concerns to the to the applicant.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. Um like to move on to staff announcements. Laura I don't think I have a mic at my desk, so I'll come down here. Don't want to breathe all over Bruce and Amanda sharing theirs. So, lots of announcements because it's been a while since we've last met. Um, so first things first, you'll notice in front of you now we have laptops. So, hopefully that will help as we have resoning cases um and presenters. We don't have to try to strain to look at these screens anymore. Um everything that the applicants provided to us should be loaded on the computers. Um tonight I know there's two PDFs, so you'll have to open Adobe for that. And then the second case is a PowerPoint. So all of those should already be open. You'll just have to navigate and find those. But let me know if you have any issues. I can help you pull them up. Um as far as environmental programs wise, it's been a busy summer. So, just to recap some past events, um our invasive removal events were still going strong with Swanik, our nonprofit group. Um we had five removal work days in July, so that was huge. We

removed about 95 pounds of invasive plant material. Um that was between Apex Community Park and Kelly Road Park. Um the Wisteria really added to that. It's very heavy, but those were great events. Um well attended. And then another very well- attended event was our afternoon in the garden/moth night event. Um that was rescheduled. It was supposed to happen in June, but we moved it to July 24th, which was when our moth night event was originally scheduled. So we ended up combining them both. And we had about probably over 170 people show up. Um that was the last count that we had, but it was a huge turnout. We ended up rescheduling it because of weather. And actually the weather was worse than the original date we picked, but that didn't matter. So um we had a bunch of people that came out. Our chair and vice chair attended and helped tabled. So thank you guys for that. Um and special thanks to Daniel because he brought his bat recording device. So as we were looking for moss at night, we could ID the bats that we saw swooping over our heads. So that was super neat. Um and then Romesh also attended. So it was glad to meet you there. Um it was a great event. So, we were super happy with the turnout um and excited to do more events like that. So, now I'm going to talk to you about some more upcoming events. Actually, tomorrow we have an event out at the nature park. It's at the Pollinator Garden. So, the Seymour Athletic side of the park, not the amphitheater side. Um it's the Great Southeast Pollinator Census. So the whole of the southeast um now North Carolina to Mississippi is participating in this program. It's a community science project. It takes 15 minutes. Um really all you do is you pick a plant and you're tally marking each pollinator that you see land on the plant. Um so it's super simple, super easy. It's a drop in event tomorrow. So it's going to be from 11 to 3. You can come and stay 15 minutes and do one

count. you can stay an hour and do a couple counts. Um, it's really up to you, but that'll be a neat event. Um, and there's a volunteer sign up link on our volunteer portal on the page. You don't have to sign up, but it just helps us know how many people to expect. Um, but feel free residents to just show up. And then next week on the 26th, we have a Creek Critter Discovery event that we're doing with Haw River Assembly. And actually Sandre who was on the board um she left to take this position and it's great because now we get to work with her in another capacity. So she's actually leading the event. Um again that's going to be at the nature park. That's Wednesday the 26th. It's from 6:00 to 7:00 that evening. Um and that's going to be really like a hands-on exploration of little creek critters, macro invertebrates um that live in the water around the nature park. So we're going to see what we can find. and we've got little nets um for people to scoop out our critters. Um but that'll just be a cool evening outside to kind of see what little guys we've got in our streams. And then

which stream is that we're looking

which it's at the nature park that

Yes. And that is the amphitheater side. So it's two different two sides of the park that will be at the amphitheater to meet. Um and again there is a registration like a volunteer link you can use uh to sign up on the volunteer portal

6 to 7.

Yeah.

My daughter has asked for her birthday to be the creek. So

Oh be a stepping stone to that.

That would be great. Yeah. Um and all of these are free by the way. No no no payment needed. So that's Wednesday. And then Thursday next week we've got three events in a row. Thursday is our first event in the Triangle Environmental Symposium. So, um we heard Dean mention that earlier in a public comment. That's our collaboration with Trees for the Triangle. Um they've hosted it in the past in Kerry and so

now it's hosted here in Apex this year. It's going to be at the Halley Center downtown. Um doors open at 6:30. programs start at 7 and for the next four Thursdays in a row, starting next Thursday, the 27th of August, September 3rd, September 10th, and September 17th, we're going to be doing basically just an environmental lecture series. So, we'll have guest speakers come in. Um, I'll give you the lineup now. So, next week, the 27th, it's our rooted injustice, growing healthy communities panel. So, it's a panel discussion. Um we're asked um these local esteemed speakers in the environmental field to come and be on our panel. Um they're based in the triangle and they're going to be talking about the work that they do and how that intersects with environmental justice. And for that event, um the mayor will be there to do some opening remarks and it's going to be moderated actually by Mr. Mafy here and then one of Trees for the Triangle's board members. So that'll be a nice event to kick off the the next couple weeks. September 3rd, so the following week, that's our from Wasteland to Wonder event. Um, and that's featuring Basil Kimu, who is an author of From Wasteland to Wonder, but also the co-founder of Leaf and Limb and Project Pandu or Pando, which is uh based here in the Triangle. September 10th, the following is Forest Around the World. So, we've got three guest speakers um in the, you know, urban forestry field coming to talk about that. And then September 17th is Gardening for the Planet. It's a documentary. So, we're going to be doing the documentary screening that night. Um and then the director will be there, Joanne Hersfield, to do a Q&A at the end. So, all of these are ticketed, but they're only $5 each, and the proceeds are going to Trees for the Triangle. There's links on our website on the town page. Um, if you just Google uh Triangle Environmental Symposium Apex, it should

pop up. It should be the first thing on a a Google search. Um, and the links for all the tickets are there online.

Does that last one conflict with It does

it. Yes, it is. It is an EAB night unfortunately.

Yep.

Okay.

And that was something we can get to later. Um, but there will be we'll be tableabling at this event as well. So, I know that we talked about it a long time ago, but if the EAB wants to be present at at least the first three meetings, um there's a table there that we can talk about later, but we could table if you're interested. And then finally, I said there was three events. So, that's Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, next week is another invasive removal workday and that'll be at Kelly Road Park and that's from 5 to 6:30. Um because now the Swanic, the nonprofit students are back in school. So, got to do it after school now. But a big week next week. Lots of events happening. So,

what's the date on the last one?

Uh the 28th. Yep. And that's all I had. But lots lots of good stuff in the works.

Are you guys doing anything to treat the knotweed?

We haven't started on that yet. Mainly we've been um targeting stilt grass and then the wisteria at Kelly Road is just out of this world. So we've really been focusing on that, but no, we should.

Nora, aside from tableabling, possibly tableabling for EAB members, um how else can we support the environmental symposium?

Um honestly, just buy tickets and attend too. If you don't want to table with us earlier, show up and enjoy. Um, I attended last year in Kerry all four or four nights in a row or weeks and it was awesome. Um, it was great. We have one speaker that is coming back that I saw last year. So, I'm super excited for her. Um, but I mean, yeah, just attend, tell your friends, share the word. That

would be great.

This is something that happens regally like every year or

Well, previously it I think it had only been in Kerry. So, I attended and I just talked to Dave, the executive director afterwards of Treats for the Triangle and said like, "This would be great to host an Apex if you guys ever wanted to move." So, I didn't realize I don't know if I like stole it from Carrie. Sorry, Carrie. But, um, I think now the president will be sent or said that it will kind of move around between municipalities, but we're happy to have it this year.

Raising awareness for residents and

Yep. raising awareness. Um, it's also partly just a fundraiser for Trees for the Triangle, but especially with our first event with a lot of our local speakers raising awareness of environmental issues here in the triangle.

Yeah.

Uh, Nora, I have question for you. Um since you are a resident um person who signs up signs the town of Apex for community re environmental related stuff um I you know I've been thinking about other things um and I think I mentioned them in the past but um you know stuff to make Apex a little bit more wildlife friendly um our community more wildlife friendly and um you know a beacon of environmental stewardship of of sorts. Um there are other community projects that I've been looking into like Bird City USA,

um which helps migratory birds, um you know, there's a couple things that we would ask residents like turn off lights during certain times of the year. Uh certain times of the day, uh snapshot snapshot USA, which keeps track uh it tracks like mammal activity. um uh Monarch City, USA, but I think the town of Apex has something similar to that, right?

Yeah, we we have the mayor's monarch pledge, right?

Yep. Um, and then, um, I've been looking into, uh, making Apex

Apex parks, maybe buildings, uh, areas near our our buildings, uh, become wildlife certified, like um

um,

community wildlife habitat like certified through the National Wildlife Federation. um you know just you you have to hit some check boxes as far as like water and food for animals and

shelter shelter. Yeah, you know about that.

Um and then um

you know uh in line with Bird City USA, you know there's stuff like dark sky communities um as well as Lights Out NC North Carolina which is done through the Ottabon Society. Um and I have to tell you um looking into that uh some of our neighbors are involved in that. um Raleigh, Greensboro, Durham, Chapel Hill, Kerry. Um a little bit further away, Win Winston Salem, Charlotte, and Asheville. Um [clears throat] so I would I would love for Apex to be a little bit more um involved in those things. Well, and it's funny that you mentioned that because I think actually something that is um one of my goals for the next year, even townwide beyond just environmental, but um I think I'm being asked to help track all the town designations. Um so, not only to figure out, you know, what are we already designated as, but then to look into new ones. So, yeah, this is great. I'll definitely be looking into all those.

Yeah. And I know we've done plantings here but in town hall. So I mean yeah we can plant natives. I'm sure you have.

Let me add to that um because you know I think one of the things that will be a part of our work session is looking at zoning conditions

um in our packet of recommendations and I think to the extent that we can build into some of those conditions things that will support those designations it will make everybody's life a lot easier if we're going to pursue these. So, I think that's something that we might consider is what types of things support the designations that we already have or designations that we want.

For sure. Yeah.

And I'd say another thing to keep in mind is a lot of these designations um I mean there's work associated with them, right? A lot of that might fall to this board to either do it or or drive it. And we kind of have this concept, you know, this past year of subcommittees doing stuff was sort of the idea. Um so with that model I mean you can keep that going. I would also point out like the size of your board in terms of work to be done. Um like we can change that you can ask to change that. If you find ourselves in a place where we need more people you know um we can make the board bigger to add more members of the subcommittee that could work on stuff. Um that's really uh you know up to you guys to sort of drive that suggest that you can suggest sort of changes. And I bring that up because also another thought that we had is um you can imagine a model where this board meets less frequently or like maybe just for the zoning cases that we have now and but the subcommittees meet more frequently to deal with whether you're the B subcommittee or or the you know wildlife whatever it happens to be uh to drive compliance with that thing. So there's a lot of different ways you can work and I just um want to throw out there that there's you guys have a lot of discretion. You're really empowered to sort of drive this sort of stuff and either To the extent you can configure yourself to do it, you can do it. To the extent you want to be configured differently, you can just ask, you know, and and work with staff to suggest stuff. If something needs money, then you would, you know, I don't know, pass a resolution or something and town council would consider it for part of the budget. There's lots of stuff you could do uh to to drive this stuff. And and I I definitely like the idea of you guys being active and and going for this these kind of things. So,

and I wonder if we can bundle some of that stuff. um create a subcommittee where we have we're working on some of these designations um kind of like all in one.

Yeah, I think where there's overlap that makes sense, you know. Um and that's kind of the reason that we dissolved the tree committee and the B committee and

put it all here because there was some overlap in areas and you know we thought that this board could be sort of the place where it's all done. Um so whether we'll back to the tree committee um issue is one example. I know that being a tree city requires you to have some board responsible for compliance and and sorts of ordinances and you have to designate someone to do it. Uh so we would designate the subcommittee to do it but it could easily be you guys like you guys can can figure out where where it makes sense and it depends maybe in your membership too and who has interest where and you know how much stuff you're doing. Any other questions or comments? Um, I'd like to move on to resoning cases. Apologize.

Be very quick. No problem. Just want to give you guys an update. So, uh, just give you guys a quick update on something, uh, Mayor Promafy already spoke about. We did pass a new ordinance that would give you guys the abilities to review resoning projects and vote on whether or not you believe that they are meeting the the recommendations for the legislative considerations. Number five, whether design minimizes environmental impact. So, that has been included. And going forward, what we will have a new process for you. Um, I'm just going to show you what the schedule looks like so you have the same understanding of what the applicants are going to be told from now on moving forward. Yeah, it'll load eventually, but essentially what'll happen is they'll come before you like they do now. They'll give a presentation, have their filled out listed of suggested zoning conditions that they're willing to offer as part of their resoning. Um during that time you would now be providing a

recommendation to the planning board and town council as that moves forward. During the first meeting they can ask they can ask for a delay in order to consider the considerations that maybe the board presents to them at that time. And then if that's the case they take the delay they will have a second meeting before you to finally state what conditions they're willing to offer to the board. And then there'll be a vote on the recommendation at that time. they'll have to come before you for that vote um before they can be scheduled for any public hearings with the planning board or the town council moving forward. Now, if they come before you the first time and you guys agree on all the conditions, they don't have to have a second neighborhood meet a second a second meeting in front of you. We'll be able to move forward from there. So, that's the process we'll be moving towards with that. Just want to let you know. And then we have So, under our applications now in our fees and under our schedules for the reasonzonings, we have a big table. I don't know if any of you have ever have seen this or been curious kind of what this looks like as a timeline that the applicants see. Um, so now we have a new section, new column that shows when their second neighborhood meeting was most likely to occur for them after their first one. So, we have that listed now. And we also have notes that kind of speak to what they'll be required to show that they're, you know, that they're they're meeting that condition of number five and minimizing environmental impact as part of their their conditioning zoning as well. And with that, we will be providing a new report. Uh that did not get loaded on here. I apologize. We'll get that to you as a copy emailed to you. It was supposed to be on this computer, but essentially it'll be report that we we already have a template of that we use for the planning board for the recommendation to town council will have the list. It'll list your vote decisions and things like that on there. There will also be a new form for dissenting members for each vote. And in that, each member who decides to vote against a recommendation for that will have to fill out that application and state the reasonings why they voted against it. Um, right now

we're working on having it be a PDF that you can type into. If it works out easier though, we may just do a paper copy if that's more comfortable for y'all to write on and then we can scan that and use that. The only issue is should there be a vote and you do have a dissenting member at that time, we'll have to what we need to do is we'll have to keep it on your laptop, come with a USB drive, download the USB drive and take it off because these laptops are also used by other members and so we have to make sure that we're keeping track of that. So, we'll go over that again as we get through that process and come up to it, but just let you guys know that the process has changed a little bit, but essentially people are still going to come before you with their proposed conditions and there just may be a second meeting if we're not able to come to a conclusion of the first one. So,

oh, it's on there. It's not on mine

Yeah. So, you might have It should be a PDF, I believe. It should be on there. There's two forms. Perfect. Yeah, it just wasn't on my

and I will let y'all move on. Thank you, Bruce. All right. Uh, moving on to the resoning uh case reviews. We have um first one reszoning case number 26 CZ09 Prince PDU PU

I need to recuse myself from this project. I don't know when the time for me to do that is but I have a conflict of interest.

This would be the time now to do that. So you would there need to be a motion and a board to recuse her. Motion and a second to recuse her. Do I have a motion to recuse?

I move.

Second.

All in favor?

And then I loaded your other conditions form too. So it should be

okay. Great. Um, good evening members of the environmental advisory board. My name is

Brendy Vega. I am um with Withers Revanel representing the Prince Farms uh plan unit development um application. And um I think you have the application package in your agendas. Um so I'll I'll just tell you a little bit about it. Um this is an owner resoning effort. So, this is the Prince family requesting this um zoning change and um they are they are um they there's no developer or home builder selected. So, we don't have a home builder or developer here um with us. We do have the representing member from the Prince family here who can answer any questions. Um so with that um this is currently an active farm um located surrounded um completely by Salem Village. It will be u an infill site. Uh the family did not sell to the developer of Salem Village um at the time that they were developing. Um so they have watched the Salem village go up around them and um the family um you know is is uh come together to prepare this resoning so they can maximize their value when it's time to sell. So this is currently in the town of Apex EJ. Um, we are working with town staff to propose additional infrastructure to a town parcel um to the east and uh for a commitment to affordable housing. Um, so uh right

now you're looking at this site north south and I'm going to flip it uh because it doesn't fit on the plans. North south. So um north is on the left side now and south is on the right. Um so our proposal is um again keeping it pretty vague because the family doesn't know who they will be selling to. Um but have proposed conditions um that the single family homes along um the western side of the property uh which is [clears throat] bottom on this page will be um approximately the same size as those that back up to them. and um that uh the [clears throat] sorry that the RCA um is going to be over here on the east side. Um we have increased the buffers by 5T on the perimeter and uh we have met with the neighbors. They are obviously sad to see the farm go. has become part of the neighborhood. Um, but we are working with them also on some of their requests. So, um, I'll see the ponds on the site um, have the family has applied for pond draining permits and the north pond has [cough] already been drained. I'm not sure about the status of the south pond. They've both been drained

and um so these stream delineations may change um since they both have been drained.

I'm sorry. What do they what are the streams called now? Are they

perennial or intermittent as you have them marked? So you're expecting them to go down to intermittent [clears throat]

I don't think

the classification impacts the buffer distance.

Yeah.

Right now it's buffered around.

Oh, so you just you're talking about the pond buffer. I'm talking about the stream channels then.

Okay.

Yeah. Are you're talking about in this area? Yeah, those

that looks like um 100 foot buffer 50 foot.

Let me see. It's a 50 foot stream buffer. So, so it's an intermittent

intermittent. Okay. And so we did do a rendering for the neighborhood meeting. We do not know what this is going to look like. Obviously, the a developer may buy it and have a different vision. Um but um what we do know is that we have committed to um single family um along along the western edge [clears throat] and um if you look back at the PD plan

um this is single family in this area and then this area can either town home or single family. Um and that's to keep the town homes away from the existing residents. So um we did have a request by one of the uh neighbors um I think he's the HOA president um to plant a row of I don't know if he said a row necessarily but giant green arborite. And so I don't think those are native species. Um, and they really want the screening. So we haven't committed to that yet. [clears throat] But it I'll go back to the aerial. You can't really see it here, but there is a road that um comes in at their entrance and it's a driveway comes down. So there's not much buffer there. Now this might be one of the sites that actually plants more trees than removes trees. Um so so um be happy to answer any questions and um go through the conditions if you'd like.

Got a question on on access to the property.

Yes. Um

there seems to be uh a lot of different options you could you could have. Uh

one would be the James Street Extension.

I assume that is probably preferred.

That is our preference, but it's owned by the Salem Village HOA. And so, um, they seem to be somewhat on board with the sale of that, but we don't know if they need 80% of their residents to sign

off, which might be near impossible. Uh, we have not looked into how that would work. So, uh, we can't expect that council will um provide condemnation. So, um, we hope that as we get further along in this process, we can make that very important connection and [clears throat] keep the traffic out of the neighborhood. um since there will be a signal here. But again, that that piece where the Salem Village connector is is owned by the Salem Village HOA

and the other side uh I guess that's a potential extension.

Yes. So that would um on the plan now extend all around kind of parallel to 540. So right now our connections are shown um on Padstone um and to the stub streets. Although we know that through um our permit we may only get one crossing for and we're hoping it's James Street. So, our transportation impact study has is studying both connections. Um, just in case we cannot get James Street, uh, we don't think that the town will let us not have a connection on that side. Um, so again, really hopeful. Uh, and I know the town would like to use this for affordable housing and we have a sub street to that and we'd like to help them connect back to James Street. But again, that's that's not something we

have control over

because as it stands now, I mean, if it if the plan goes off as sort of presented there, that is a really nice area of continuous habitat that sort of links up, I think, to some RCA of

Salem Village right there. So, not fragmenting the habitat with a road through the middle of it would be really nice. Well, what we don't know if council is willing to condemn and we, you know, can't speak for them and we can't speak for um any future councils that may be here. So, um, that's always an uncertainty. What level of storm water are you designing for? What's your storm?

I'm gonna let Ed, my coworker, answer that. He's the engineer. So, at this point, we are designing to meet whatever is in the UDO, the requirements of the UDO. We're not able to exceed it at this point because we don't have an end user to determine, as Brendy mentioned, how the site will lay out. So, we're we're meeting what the code requires at this point.

Is that a 10 or 25?

I believe it's uh I believe it's a 10 if I'm remembering right. So, And do you know um sort of the two downstream roads, Padstone Drive and Flint Valley Lane, do you know if those either of those have a history of overwash or flooding issues?

I am not aware of any. Um the residents when we had our neighborhood meeting did not mention any issues with that. They were more concerned to make sure that our own storm water was not going to end up in their ponds.

Fair. Yeah.

Which is a fair question. and we can't because we can't send our water into somebody else's storm water control measures. So that was their biggest concern when we met with them. So

Okay.

How many acres of on this one?

How many acres is this site?

It's approximately 50. It's close to 50 acres.

You know, I I think right at this time would be the time to commit to at least the 25ear storm. you're not very long on the design. A 25-year storm pond is probably only 20% larger than a 10-year storm. And I think that should be a requirement that you go ahead and make that commitment at least. We I look downstream on a lot of these things with these 10-year storm ponds and we're having trouble. And now is the time or previous to this is the time that you at least commit to 25 year storm at least. I guess I'm feeling like this respectfully is a little premature without really knowing what are we actually assessing or evaluating with no actual plans and no end user and no developer and [snorts] this not actually being the plan that we're providing input on. Well, this one that that we're sharing here is the reasonzoning request. I It's unusual to come forward without a developer or a home builder, but it is the property owner's right to come forward with uh their own resoning.

And it's the property owner's obligation to commit to items that this board needs to would like to see. Now is the time while the paper is clean.

Um, did I read in the application that there's a plan to put a greenway somewhere in the RCA? No, I think there was some confusion by the neighbor, one neighbor who came to the meeting said he's fed up with the town, doesn't trust the town, that, you know, he doesn't trust that having RCA is going to stay RCA because they have RCA and the town wants to put a greenway in it. Uh, so I think I think he was referring to this area here. Oh, okay.

Which does have, I believe, a greenway on the master plan.

Where where is that place? Uh

um along uh between Padstone and I'm not sure what that is, but

I think he was referring to this area. Um, I see that you offered 25% of preserving existing tree canopy. If that I know, yeah, I know you can't commit to more because that road whether or not that center road crossing goes through. I mean, if if it doesn't go through, you could pretty much preserve all the trees that are on the property because there's not that many there, right? And so um you know 25% of a small swath could could mean a lot of them. So um yeah it's hard it's hard not knowing um where our connection will be and also um you know there's not a lot of trees on the property. So we probably are going to be planting a lot of trees out here

and and just um where there are trees. I know some of it's on well the top part of the picture now um along there but there is and I see that there is a

buffer designated you you would not actually be dis disturbing existing trees despite the buffer being there correct

correct okay and there was a stretch I noticed that did not have trees it looks like pasture you would be putting in additional trees there correct

in the pasture area here we don't have a planting plan right now but I think we can commit to one. Yes. I mean, it's not going to be used for anything else, so we can plant it. Okay.

Speaking of, uh, planting, um, you know, I'm looking at this. 25% of the landscape shall be native species. Um, oh, for Eastern North Carolina, for I'm sorry, for

for North Carolina,

but um, we can do 75% at number 13. 75% and we I talked to our landscape architect and he said that he can probably get that close to 100 except for those giant green arborites. So, We're we could get close to that 100.

The last recommendation we had was 75%.

And I I would recommend to 75%.

I think that's I mean what's in front of me seems extremely low, but

and 50% of those would be native to eastern United States or native of North Carolina. Would it be possible to select species that are more native to like the Pedmont area?

Um on a developmentalist side. Well, I I did um see that

you have a definition of native species and does that native species include plants that are considered non-invasive also? I guess that would be a question.

There's a prohibition on on invasive species.

Yeah. So, um, so yeah, I think except for the green arbor bitey that the neighbors are requesting, we could get to to 100%.

And there are some other um there's some native holls that might be suitable in space of the arborite. Um, I know my neighborhood had a problem. When you plant a monoculture of arborvite, you get insect pests that you then have to manage and they just don't tend to do well. I hear you on that. I hear you. Um, so, um, could we increase that and then maybe give them some spaced out giant green herb rabbity? [laughter] I don't know. They they have their heart set on a 25 foot high screen opaque screen at two years of planting. And I don't think a giant green arborite is going to get there. Um,

and then would the HOA of your development be responsible for maintaining the arbory? Okay.

So, I'm I'm hearing that that's not a good idea. And maybe we should stick to the

native plant. I I would landscape architect could probably recommend.

Do you want to come as a withers employee?

[laughter]

She's my coworker.

As a landscape architect, I can say that um native native species, there are

plenty of native species that we can do that can provide a nice evergreen screen. And yeah, the ua is the species of um arborite. It's not native and it's not it's not great for our heavy storms that we get. They can sometimes shrill up, turn brown, and die. And so I think native and adapted native species would be better. And so my recommendation as a landscape architect not involved with this development would be to um to pursue a more diverse and native planting planted buffer if I can say that.

Yeah, you can have you can participate in the conversation when you're when you're recused. You just can't vote.

Okay. Okay. So in that case if it's native and adaptive species then we can do 100%.

Adaptive adapted native species would just be like a cultivar a specific trade grown cultivar. So like a lot of oaks have a native oak but then they've trademarked a specific species which is known for like drought tolerance or it's known for you know disease resistance and stuff like that and I think we can we can definitely come up with that. So um if that's okay with you Rick we'll change it to 100% native and adaptive species. And with that, I do think there needs to be a certain percentage of strictly native species in there as as part of it.

So it the um number 14

number 14. So you're saying

a minimum of 50 50% of the species shall be native to the eastern United States or native of North Carolina. So, would you be okay with maybe doing 75% native

to east eastern United States and then the whole package native plus adaptive? That would get you there.

Well, I'd have to consult with my landscape.

That's going to be more difficult when it like for the buffers and things like that. I think you can do native tree species, but when it comes to ornamental plantings, like if there are I don't even know what's required on this. If there are foundation landscape requirements or parking lot landscape requirements, that's where you run into challenges with natives because they often get larger than you want them to be and they often aren't built for um parking lot islands, for example. And so I think you I think it's acceptable to commit to like buffers and places where you have lots of room for plants to grow to be native, but I wouldn't want to hold the entire development to 100% native plants or

internal to the development.

Let let me ask you this being your landscaper. Uh, dog woods, which are a small tree. Is is that what you're referring to? That gets too big?

No.

Or are they too slow? They're slower growing.

And red is there. Not a lot of evergreen shrubs, which are often required for screening requirements for parking lot islands. Um, I'm referring mostly to shrub matter. Uh, trees, I think, are easier to deal with with native than, you know, adapted natives. That answer your question?

Did Did you say somebody wanted a 25 foot high

buffer within two years?

I missed that.

Within two years.

Yeah, it's not it's not possible.

I mean,

yeah, I I told them we didn't I didn't think it was possible, but I wasn't an I'm not a tree arborist or a landscape.

I mean, maybe if you plant a Leland Cyprus, but those have their own

challenges and they're certainly not native. I I always look at these buffers, you know, and especially when you're coming in really early and you don't even have a developer or a or a builder and you know where the buffer is going to go.

Now is the time to plant that buffer because I see a lot of these cartoons where you have beautiful green all around it and then after the thing gets built and you go driving down and hear these little telephone pole trees all over the place where all that green was supposed to be. So, in my opinion, the earlier these things get planted, if you know where they're going to be, that's what you should do.

Well, it's not easy to plant buffers prior to large earth moving practices because

and I agree with you on that.

Yeah, the root disturbance and all you they're going to get established, they're going to start spreading their roots and then you're there disrupting them. You don't even know what grade everything's going to be at when it's all said and done. So that's the challenge with doing it ahead of construction.

I I understand what you're saying, but sometimes right alongside of properties where people are looking for 25 foot I mean there's a balance. There is a balance and and you just need to strike it.

Well, these these people haven't even sold their property yet and so the the funds and resources to do that probably don't exist. Um, so I I think what this development is trying to do honestly is lay a framework so that they can sell their property and ride off into retirement and not knowing who the end user is going to want to buy this, you know, because it's got environmental constraints. It's got roads that need to be built, you know, I mean, these are all things that make it difficult for developers to buy things. Not putting on any kind of developers hat. just explaining the nature of the biz here a little bit. Um, so I mean to me like what they're proposing seems reasonable and it seems like they're willing to work with um you guys on the the native and adapted species.

So the proposal then is for condition 13 to be 75% of the native lands. I think I must have moved something around here. I I think we can do 100% okay native and adaptive.

Okay. But condition 13 reads a percentage that shall be native.

Right. So we would change that to native and adaptive.

Um I would just

let's just leave it at 75.

That's a breakdown. Um

Oh, okay.

75% will be purely native.

Okay. Um, and then 25% native and adaptive.

Okay.

Well, I guess just adaptive or or native or Yeah. So, and or adaptive. Yeah.

Just just for some clarification, too, we the town only allows native or adaptive species to be planted. So,

if if you do 75%, you're only going to be able to do adaptive elsewhere.

Okay. Yeah. So you're really just writing down the percentage of native you're willing to commit to.

Okay. Well, that that makes sense then.

Yeah. And then 14 reads a minimum of 50% that are native to eastern United States or North Carolina. Okay. Um the Could you talk a little bit more? I feel like I've moved some boxes around on on the list here accidentally about um number 15 about pull these up right here.

Yeah, please. That would be great.

Right here.

All right.

So, number I think it's Well, I'm not sure where it went. Um

16 and 17. That's where it went from. Okay. um talking about after issuance of the final co um will you not have a set of covenants already in place?

Yeah, some of the builders that we talked to said they don't mind having that condition, but they don't appreciate it during their sales.

Understood. So, so if by the last CO by the last house is sold or permitted

um then you know HOA

but that will not be monumented in the covenants to be saddled the once the builder

if it's a zoning condition then yes I believe so

I guess I'm saying like like curious why why they uh why they don't want it in in there when when they're selling the the houses and the plots. I don't quite

get the hesitation.

Pretty.

But but wouldn't wouldn't the builder though be in control of any architectural modifications? So, they could just be like, "No, you're not changing your yard because

I I don't

I just wanted to interject just on the wording of the condition. It cannot be tied to building permit. We can only tie it to plat. So we can't have zoning conditions for a residential single family residential that are tied to um building permit or CF.

So final plat

it has to be we can only that's the latest it can be as plat.

Okay. So final final plat change that too

and at that point you wouldn't have the grass planted anyway. So I guess the point of those I guess from the board's perspective is you know once the builder leaves the homeowners if they would like to change their grass to be more environmentally friendly would like the option to do so.

Yes.

Because we often or at least in my

neighborhood you you cannot change your grass and that is enforced. I I I understand. I've been ticketed for stuff growing in my yard.

And I guess the same thing would apply to number 17 as well.

Yeah. Final plat and we are committing to warm season grasses. So, you know, it'll be a while before those new warm season grasses start getting other things mixed in with them. And so, Bill, did you you formally added um let's see the storm

request

the storm water pond one?

I am formally adding that as

Okay.

Um what's your storm? So, that's number eight.

8B.

8B is the 25-year storm.

8B. Okay.

A question about the storm. Just out of curiosity, um, storm is based upon intensity of development, right? So, if they are increasing the intensity of the development as it comes to plan review, it will then be automatically required to do the 25 year storm or No,

no, the the UDO [clears throat] I mean, I'm not in the water resources department, but I checked our um water resources map, and this is not in in an area where the UDO requires the 25-year storm to be treated, only the 10. So we would need a zoning condition to address.

Yes. The the property owner has agreed to 25 years.

So it's 8B.

Y'all are keeping track of this, right? [laughter] Okay. Because I'm taking notes. One thing um this this is not in the uh section um for residential or or for both. Um it should be it was a mistake on our part when we set this up originally uh is to uh install conduits for solar energy systems. Uh

I'm sorry.

A condition to uh put in solar conduits for solar energy system.

Oh, in the units. Uh

yeah, we can do that. I think that's good. Yeah.

Okay. It's in

number 39.

It's number 39. Yes.

Yes.

Okay. So, number 39. Yes. For and then we'll just say residential,

right? And to apply to the residential. Yes,

I had a question. Uh, number 22 is checked, but there's no actual numerical value in the line.

Yeah, it's five. I'm sorry.

Oh, okay. Can we get that?

Yep. Five. my my um just so you all know it's really hard to fill out this form. [laughter] So

may I ask are they agreeing to what John asked with the conduit?

Yes. Yes.

Okay. And then 23. Um if we can say or as that condition um um that would be

up to the future developer. Have them pick one or the other. Think that's fair. and 30. I guess we didn't really understand um to wire the garages at the exterior. Um so we wrote in in in the garage in the garage or at the exterior. Um,

sorry. Did you jump down to number 30? Is that

Yeah.

I'm sorry. Yes.

There was some talk about the 220s in the garage that we couldn't follow through with that. And I don't understand that fully still to this day because we check all the 110s everywhere. And I I still think that it can be an option in the garage or outside of the garage either way. Just so long as they've got 220 there. And frankly, almost all developers go with that now because they can advertise the building as EV ready. I mean, it's it's the cheapest thing they can do to have that uh ability.

Yeah, it's more of an amenity now than it is a requirement.

Yeah,

I think I guess we're jumping around. I'd like to jump back to number 28 if we may.

Yes.

And uh I recognize that you don't have you don't know how many homes I was looking at. Uh I guess if you had 155

units, you'd be 15 units with solar. uh 3.5 kilowatts is a very small uh solar PV system and to make it easy and frankly LAR has committed to this and I believe the last two developments that 3.5 kilowatts of solar shall be installed on at least 10% of the buildings. You can pick which buildings you want and everything else but 10% of the buildings is what LAR agreed to and I think that's the right thing to do.

[clears throat]

And that's my suggestion.

What is the density of the LAR development?

I'm sorry.

Like how many what's the density of the LAR development that they committed to that?

I think they were medium density. Are you aware of that?

Which one? Lar they committed to the 10%

remember the name of it

I'm quite certain it was a medium density a lot of this is medium density and semi- high density and certainly it's more difficult sometimes to get the developers to go on a higher density because the roof might be owned uh with all the whole group but with this development where they're showing a number of town homes or regular uh homes It should be quite easy for them to uh meet that requirement. I

I think it ought to be limited to the single family homes uh not the town homes.

Pardon me.

I think it should be limited to just the the single family homes.

Okay. I I will say to the single single family homes if that uh is satisfactory.

We had not discussed that. So I'll have to discuss it with our client the

property owner.

Okay. Okay. So it's 10% to single family homes. U one of our questions was um we did get a suggestion about planting getting permission to plant in the CSX rail corridor. Um but and speaking to the Prince family and others who have lived near rail corridors, they spray them and nothing would probably survive. So, um we will be working um to probably supplement that buffer along that corridor. And uh in case you didn't see the the um driveway to South Salem Street will be closed off with this development. Um they did have this family farm had a farm stand and um CSX told them they could no longer have that farm stand um because it was dangerous to drive over the railroad tracks. So um you know that took part of their livelihood away having that farm stand. So That will be closed off. Um, so you have not had a like an official um JD done on the

streams there or anything yet?

Um, not an official. No. Um, we have gone out and we have gone out and done a delineation and that's what you see on there.

Okay. So, um I'm seeing a lot of wetlands on there. Um

are those is it like stream and then the stream fizzles out and becomes a wetland and then it picks up as stream again or is it a continuous channel?

It is not continuous.

Okay. Um but yes, there are wetlands on the site

and so um are they considered isolated wetlands?

That's a question. Are these isolated wetlands?

They are isolated wetlands. Okay. Okay. So then I would like to propose a 30-foot buffer shall be provided along existing delineated wetlands. That's number seven.

That's fine. We talked about that. Okay.

So, 30 foot buffer along the delineated wetlands.

Yeah. I mean obviously if they fall end up falling into a larger stream buffer that sort of like kind of supersedes it but um if in fact the wetlands get thrown out um any juris you know they're not jurisdictional then yeah and the again unless a road needs to impact one of those which we have no control over that. Amanda's going to make us connect to that Yately Lane if we can't connect to

James Street. [laughter] I mean, obviously we all want to connect to James Street. That's the best. Everybody wants to be at a traffic light. Okay. At this time, we can't commit to the 10% solar. through all the different ones that we recommended.

So we are voting on uh the board recommendations now.

Yeah. Is that the process, Bruce? Now we we vote on these recommendations and then if they don't

so the applicant so the way we have it written up is the applicant can request a delay to have a second meeting in front of you to discuss and work on the conditions you'd like to see as part of this proposal or if the applicant decides they don't want to you can make your recommendation now. Um but if there sounds like there's things that they need to discuss it would be in their best interest to request a delay come see you again in the future. Is that what you would like?

Uh, do you recommend that we discuss the solar?

It depends on what your time frame is for for moving along, I guess.

Um, we are in our first review cycle. We should be getting comments back next week. I mean, y'all are very nice. We don't

really want to come back and see [laughter] you, but But we will if we need to.

I think the decision before the board is would that one condition make a difference in your recommendation on whether you think the project um the the zoning conditions offered mitigate the environmental impact which is the wording of that legislative condition. So I mean you you could say we would like a vote today or you could say we want to wait and talk about it more. But you know,

I think as I understand it, the only thing that that you're not able to commit to is the 10% solar on the single family homes.

Correct.

And and you can commit to every other recommendation we we've made so far.

Yes. The with the wording that we've um agreed upon. Yes. So

Okay, we're going to request a vote at this time. Thank you.

Sorry, what did you say?

We're going to request a vote at this time. Um, so if I can have a little assistance here, um, how would I go about this? Um, have we voting for everything bundled up minus the solar or u we just itemizing and going one one by one?

So, I hate to put be in the position of putting words in the board's mouth. Yeah, I think you have a couple of op well, you have three options. And if you'll look at um well you don't have it in front of you. Our the report that will be sent to the town council when the planning board gives three these three options. You can recommend approval based on the conditions that

the applicant has agreed to which is basically everything you've discussed minus the solar. And that would be saying that the recommendation is that the resoning um recommending approval of the reszoning based on the project's ability to comply with that legis the environmental impact legislative consideration. Your second option is to approve with conditions that you recommend approval but only if the applicant agrees to um the additional condition not yet offered which is the solar or you could recommend denial saying that it's not consistent with the legislative consideration. Does that make sense?

Me I think number two is the right way to go probably. Uh and council can take a look at it. They've done that before and when these things come up, they have held strong for what we did. So, I I could live with number two.

Any other comments about this before vote?

Um, I would like the minutes to reflect that I I feel like we're being asked to vote upon a hypothetical plan given our options. I'm I'm fine to make a vote, but I don't feel like I have the full picture of

I'm going to second that

what the impact is here.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think without a plan, I think uh we can I can echo the statement.

Mr. Chair, if I may.

Yes.

To some degree all resonings are hypothetical. We do not get the um we do not get to see the final plan, the subdivision plan, the site plan at the time of reszoning. So, we don't know other than the map that's being shown now with the points of access where the different types of uses would be. There's a commitment for an open space in the middle. I can see in a bright green color buffer generally where RCA

is going to be. this is the level of review that we would get for um a reasonzoning even if we knew who the builder was. So, I just wanted to offer that little bit of clarification. I think historically we've seen a little more detail. Maybe it's been at a different point in the process, but

we've seen we've seen projects uh proposals uh and and all different stages of of of it. Uh we've seen stuff where it's just plot of land and they want to reszone, they don't even know what they're going to do with it uh at all. Uh on this one, uh it's clear they want to put put some houses and and town homes on it. Uh so I in my mind it's it's it's neither better nor worse than than pretty much all the other ones we've had to had to make a decision on. Is there something um Ann that you would normally see in a plan that maybe we can help clarify for you?

Not necessarily. I just um feel overall that the development of residences, especially things like town homes, that we're just to a point where there are almost no requirements that can be met that that don't offset the impact. Um, but I that's not really what I'm being asked to vote on here. That's so um I got to be honest with you, a lot of this stuff is beyond my expertise, my personal expertise or professional expertise. Um, I I I would love to hear

from the board members. Um, I know Billy, you stated how you feel. Um, because it's seems like we have three options here as far as how to how to vote. Um, anybody else want to chime in? I agree with the approval with condition and just let it go up to the planning board and they can look at the whole project and

now if they don't meet all the conditions then it'll come back here is my understanding. Is that correct?

That's decide to do something.

That's not correct. Once you make a vote that's the that's the recommendation that gets forwarded to the planning board and the town council. They can ask for us to withhold the vote at this point and then come back a second time. I think the way I understand.

Could you repeat that? I'm sorry.

We if we hold our vote tonight, they can come back a second time and and represent and either say we can't do it at all or or we can't. Uh kind of that time we would take

at that time we would take a vote. Yeah.

Well, if it isn't going to come back if they don't agree, then I kind of have trouble agreeing to let it go.

Yeah.

Because I mean, we're just hands off at that point. I thought it would come back if they didn't agree. Well, so they've asked for

if they before they went to council, if they didn't agree, I thought it would come back. And maybe I misunderstood what you said.

So if they don't agree tonight, we can just say come back another night. Is that our option?

Could I ask a question regarding the solar? Um, I mean they're doing EV charging in all the homes, you know, allowing for access to that. Like I guess I'm wondering like what is the true benefit of of the solar? I mean it's going to they're going to have a lot of trees on this property. So there's going to be shading from heat island. Like I'm trying like what is your what is your reason for holding so fast to the solar? My curiosity.

Well, I I look at any building if you add the solar you get it closer to a truly green building. And when I look at when I look at my understanding is it's a pretty flat old farm place. It's there's not a ton of trees on this darn thing. And if I look at 10% of the houses of having solar, you can put solar on the south facing roof and it's most efficient. If you have to go east or west, you lose 15% of the efficiency, but it's still a good thing. And three and a three and a half kilowatts today is um is less than 10 panels. It's not a big thing, but it gets them started. And there's a there's a development I forget what the number of it is on Hot Road Holt Road a while back. We the council pushed them to put a certain number of of uh houses have solar and they far exceeded that early on in the development. One and the other part of it is it's if people see solar on houses, they're willing to put solar on their house. That's that

well in that case um there is a lot of houses along Alley Lane that already have solar.

Yeah. And this is that's a good opportunity for this development to do the same thing.

I believe those residents should have that choice. Um my my only reason for asking is like where there's lots of density, those costs can be spread

across across multiple homes. This is not an enormous development and we don't yet fully know exactly what the density is going to be. But when we start adding these conditions, those costs get added to the homeowners and there's already a lot of like not developable land on this parcel. And so that would be my concern is that inadvertently you could be rising the cost of housing. Even though I'm like a proponent of like wetlands and streams and native plants and all of it, it's just that's the reality of what we impose. And so I I guess not that I'm voting on this, but my thought would be to be a little cautious about imposing things when development size is not enormous or not very large.

But in this case, we're talking about a percentage of houses. Higher density means a lot more houses. So I I think by going with the 10% you've mitigated the problem of low density. And the other part of it is that solar does pay itself off over the long haul. Um it's not quite as good now because of dear Donald Trump and his screwed up uh um tax program. It pays itself off to the homeowner but not to the developer which is then

it would be built into the cost of the individual 10% of those homes and it wouldn't be spread across the other homes in the in the property.

Yeah. It goes into the one home and we we had a number of developers not just the one out on Holt Road that did commit to this sort of thing. Again, sir, this is there is no developer here. So, we can't we're not asking we're you're asking the farmer owner that's going to get a developer.

Yes.

And and I know a number of the developments where we required solar and

they flipped them to other developers. That's almost the same thing. I mean, that it was a developer that was going to flip the property, committed to the 10% and then flip the property. And then if an

it's not a it I mean it's $7,000 per home

for a system

$7,000 per home. That's not the quote I

That's not the quote I got.

A three for 3.5 kilowatts. Um you can I got I got an offer a while back at one a$180 a watt. So for 3.5 kilowatts, you're looking at seven at $7,000 or even if it was $10,000. But that's what they're going for now. I mean, the the Chinese are making the the the panels so darn cheap, they get them for less than 50 cents a watt for the panel. That's the big cost. And then the inverter is the other big cost. So, I got a quote for $25,000 on my

For what?

For solar.

For what size?

I was I don't know, Bill. That's not [laughter] That's not

It It makes all the difference in the world because it really comes down to how much are you paying per watt

and and certainly the smaller ones are going to be higher, more expensive. I got a qu quote for a 9 kilowatt system probably three months ago or less at a$180 a watt. A$180 a watt

with 9 kilow everything.

That's less than $18,000 for 9 kilow.

So what is our what is our move here if they're not agreeing to solar? Does somebody want to make a motion? This can't go on forever.

No. I mean, I I think I think we need to go ahead and have a vote uh on something.

I'm sorry. Can I ask one other question not related to solar? The fourth bullet

on one, two, three, four, sorry. Fifth bullet. Working with town staff to propose addition to infrastructure to town owned parcel with a commitment for is there I'm sorry, it's on the

Yeah, on the Yeah. Yeah. Um is is that implying some percentage of the proposed development as shown here will be deemed affordable or

so uh right now um what we put in our first submitt was that 5% of the homes would be affordable um either 80% AMI for rent for 120% AMI for sale and that um the future developer would extend infrastructure, roads and utilities so through the town owned parcel so they could do additional affordable and um that helps the town not having to put that out to bid. Um so um we're working through those that we just submitted and we've had one meeting on it. So it's still a work in progress. But yes. So then I guess my my question related to that is then does that potentially impact the affordability if we are going to require solar that that we are furthering distancing someone from being able to live here because we've now made them less

in that particular home. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. I think if you take out a 30-year mortgage and you're putting us on a solar panel, I think their life is 25 30 years.

They're guaranteed for 25 years and they typically last 40 years of

um

that's not accurate. Um they say that but your typical degragation you reach about 80% at the 20 year life and have to replace them. Your inverter and other electrical components usually have a 10 15 year life.

So when you take

the the inverter has a 15 year life but the panels they guarantee them for 25 years with I think like a 10% degra deg degradation.

So if somebody's going to stay in their home through retirement you're asking a retiree to make that investment of replacing the roof and

what are you saying? I'm sorry. So, at the end of their retirement, they're going to be putting in a new roof and new solar if it's a 30-year mortgage.

That's my question. I don't think we need to.

Yeah.

Um, can I have a motion for one of the three options that was offered to us? I move to approve with conditions with solar condition.

Second.

All in favor?

A vote is that unanimous.

Oh.

Um, all in favor?

Okay. It was unanimous. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you. Um, I have a question for staff. Um, if restroom break, um, do does Enjari take over? Do I call to recess? [laughter]

Yeah, the chair, you can just call for a recess without objection.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. All right. Uh,

motion for a recess. You say say without without objection we'll go into recess for five minutes or something like that.

I'm sorry.

The chair could say without objection.

Oh, all right. Without object if they want, but

we we will take a fivem minute recess at this time.

All right. Do I think about

Sorry, guys.

They want to ask a question. client whether they want to offer the condition or not.

Typically stand out back if they got the answer to go back and get answers.

But the idea is

what if we felt like there's nothing no condition.

I got answers for you. They're telling you no. Then you vote

no vote against the motion right out which

well I mean they voted just sent it there and said okay what%

okay so maybe don't I didn't feel that's a But there could be others.

Yeah.

And or

it's almost also the cumulative effect that like

every [laughter]

whatever it's only then like

so if this was like an entirely forested

oh

lot then I mean yeah so like even this project with a different landscape couldn't fit that situation. You could just So the vote is that someone makes a motion to vote and and I would say no.

Yeah.

Okay.

You're generating more more.

You could recommend denial.

Yeah. You can get more people.

That's an option.

But then do we lose I guess this is where but then do we

but then it still could go on in the process potentially

potentially. I mean like are we better off at this

than kind of saying no

now town council now planning board go ahead and do what you want.

Yeah. See, I'm not sure what the mechanism is

for the ne the planning board and onward to see like oh we on it.

look at it and say

I'm going to call the meeting back

session 8:07 p.m.

Uh we will continue with the resoning case. Uh we're moving on to reszoning case number 26 Z I'm sorry CZ Z10 uh Vetti expansion. Uh, Miss Chap,

see if I can find my PowerPoint real quick. [snorts] Good evening, chair, members of the board. I'm attorney Leticia Shapiro with Morning Star Law Group here on behalf of the applicant RXR realy. I'm going to preface this as this is something unique that usually doesn't come before you and I see some familiar faces and then I see some wonderful new faces. So, I hope that I do a great job of explaining and I'm able to answer any of your questions. So, this case um let me start the PowerPoint. That would be helpful. This case involves the parcels that are highlighted in yellow that are located in between US 155 and just north of 540. The purpose of the reszoning is to reszone these properties to the sustainable development conditional use district in order to bring them into the Vidia SD plan. So here you can see that the properties are surrounded by the parcels in dark purple which are have been reszoned SDCZ and are currently part of the VIDIA SD plan. So as you are as you may be aware uh the sustainable development conditional use district is uh distinguished from other zoning districts because it's unique purpose it has a unique purpose and intent. So on your screen is an excerpt of the UDO that provides the SD standards, one of which expressly states at subsection B that this zoning district is expected to preserve and enhance critical environmental and natural resources including water resources and ecosystem

services in the stream network flowing through the district and also states in subsection D that innovative techniques and practices are aimed at maximizing efficiency and use of energy and materials. The Vidia SD plan has guiding principles that includes um a specific aim at eliminating the concept of waste, insist on renewable future, integrate, put my glasses on, integrate nature throughout the community, and provide a district where humanity and nature coexist in a healthy, supportive, diverse, and sustainable condition. The SD plan defines sustainable and sustainability as you see here on your screen. But the major distinction between the SD the Vidia SD plan and the requirements of other zoning districts is what's called the environmental enhancement plan or the EP. The SD plan requires a separate set of sustainability standards addressing natural resources and the secondary and cumulative impacts associated with developing Vidia as a whole. The EP expressly says the project is intended to use best practices involving land use diversity, building design, waste avoidance, energy optimization, water conservation and protection, transportation and open space over the lifespan of this multi-phase development. So taken together, that SD plan and the EP are intended to provide environmental protection that equals or exceeds the traditional metrics of the Apex UDO, state law, and federal law. So, while I recognize that we do not have specific commitments to present to the board this evening, the purpose of the Vidia SD plan and the EP is what guides develop development calling for

the integration of environmental stewardship with economic and social needs. Recognizing that in order to get there, these objectives objectives will evolve as development continues. As Vidia expands and development and develops, it extends the same sustainability framework, standards, and guiding principles to additional land. The EP makes it clear that environmental protection is a projectwide obligation. It commits to measurable energy and building performance standards, parks and recreation commitments, open space that is designed as an interconnected community system, multimodal transportation, and storm water infrastructure that is expected to provide environmental and community benefits such as creating wildlife habitat and educational opportunities. Vidia is expected to provide a high quality of life through the creation of healthy living landscape within a mixeduse community. It goes above and beyond by regulating the development as an integrated community rather than a collection of individual parcels. It imposes projectwide obligations for among other things environmental performance, energy efficiency, interconnected open space and greenways and transit infrastructure. So, with that, I'm happy to do my best to answer any questions, but I will tell you that the developer and staff have worked extremely hard on this EP plan, on the SD plan um to make sure that it either meets or exceeds the UDO and it continues to evolve as projects come in for development plan. I can give you just kind of a and I'm happy to share this with you. however I can get it to you. But this was the uh recent in uh December I believe 2025 where we redid

or we amended both the SD plan and the EP as it related to the hospital. But this is collectively that SD plan, the EP, and then what Vidia calls a pattern book where you can really kind of see how this is coming together. So again, I'm happy to share that, but as you can see, it is a robust set of documents that include and and carefully is designed to be sustainable. Um, so again, I can try to answer any specific questions that you might have, but it's a lot of information and I'm happy to share that with you. So for your own edification of when we come back before you so you have this information and you can understand what Vidia is and what those you know programs are as it relates to the environment.

I have questions.

Sure.

Um so I was discussing with staff a little bit that um part of my concern is that we're we're adding acreage over time to the development. We've already added over a 100 acres and we haven't changed the RCA or the open space requirements, but staff has explained to me that there's greater open space dedication than was even originally called for as a minimum requirement due to environmental features, but you haven't laid any of that out before us.

And so, do you have any information?

I think what she might need to see is the heat map. I don't know if she could see like does the heat map show all the

the heat map doesn't show that but there is a a buffer exhibit appendix B of the environmental enhancement plan that was what I was talking about with you earlier it identified all the repairarium buffers because they did buffer averaging where there's zone three um and at at that time before additional land was added there was already um repairarium buffers of 183.09 09 acres, which well exceeds the 100

acres of RCA required by the by the SD plan. And since that time, the additional parcels that have been brought in, some of them also have repairarian buffers that bisect the properties. And so by name, you know, by default, anything that's going to be a perimeter buffer or a repairarian buffer, protective repairing buffer through the site um is going to be RCA as well. Um so

there's no additional RCA though on top of that. So the only protected areas are just going to be riparian buffer.

That's that's what's required and that meets their minimum requirement. And that would be the case of pretty much of development like if a development anywhere else were able to meet its minimum RCA requirement with all repairarian buffer or perimeter buffers. That's usually the first two that are used to meet those requirements. So

what's what's the total acreage of Veridia?

It's approximately,00 acres. I don't have the precise number. And so if it didn't have this SD plan and you had,00 acres in this location, what would the normal percentage of RCA be?

Well, it's bisected by 540, which makes the math more complicated because our standard is different um north of 540 than it is south. So the bulk of the land

just take like

it' be 20% so just over 200 um acres. Um, and I do not know, like I said before, there are some additional repairarian buffers and protected areas through parcels that have been added that I don't have um that number handy right here in front of me. So, originally the agreement was like 9 and a half% of the original acreage and that was to create a urban walkable neighborhood and staff pointed out that it was 0% um it's in downtown Apex for example. And so what you've told me that there's over 183 acres to me that that's meeting that 9 and a half%. So I'm I'm satisfied with with that.

Thank you.

I agree.

Other questions

what you're saying. I I look at the SD plan on this and it's It's like 30,000 feet and you don't get down into the into the thicket of the thing of what really is going to be done. You know, we're going to make sustainable buildings.

What's sustainable building?

And I think that

get down to the is it is it going to be um Energy Star rated or what is there really going to be?

They've got criteria I've always criteria specified for the uh what I'm sorry. They have criteria specified for both the residential and the non-residential buildings.

Yeah. And they have waste diversion. I mean, it's actually fairly spelled out in terms of their their EP and what they're doing to meet it. I mean I mean, but it is an SD zoning. So, I mean like like there's not a whole lot that we can really do except for these particular parcels. Um, if we want to put conditions on these parcels, as I understand it, according to staff,

I'm not sure we can.

Maybe we can.

The SD plan, I believe it is it supersedes the UDO basically.

Put together by a very clever. So I think the way I look at it is when you look at

what we have as far as the SD plan, the EP and the specific pattern book that the SD plan you you're going from like the general to the specific. So the SD plan is is that general overview and then the EP sort of narrows it down even more and then the pattern but kind of shows you even more specifics. So if you haven't been able to look at all three of the documents collectively like that is that gives you a better idea of how it's developing like what the generalization was what the specifics

are being held to at development plan and what the specific pattern of the of the of the Vidia SC plan is hope what they're hoping to look for it to look like. Um and again I'm happy to share uh 25 CZ18 which was how it was amended in December of 25 how those documents were amended in December of 25 with everyone. Um and then after after this definitely reach out with any questions that you might have and I'm sure Amanda would Amanda's actually like the brilliant brain behind it all. [laughter]

Oh and Bruce is coming along. He's done. He's doing a lot in Bidia. Now,

as these get developed, you'll have to delineate wetlands and show buffers and all of that and dedicate

Yeah.

areas. It is interesting though because it's basically the entire upper portion of the one stream is the entire watershed of it and it's currently all forested. Um and you know even the word well the word sustainability it sustainable sustainability is being thrown around but that does not equate to conservation at all but what was agreed to they are meeting and so I mean I will say there's there's other things too um in terms of like green stormwater infrastructure I believe that are called out in the plan and Um there are aspects of the environmental plan which we just got like today I think or yesterday but uh there are a number of things in there which are good things but I feel like um they're meeting the intent of their document whether or not we agree with it or not is is not really up to us. I don't think

I mean there's nothing really that we can do in this situation.

It's unfortunate.

I just always look at sustainable though.

Put a big glass thing over the whole thing and let it function within itself. And that certainly isn't what this is by any means. And if if you were looking at an 1100 acre project just sort of as it appears now on the ground, I mean some of the we probably wouldn't recommend or even accept some of the things that are in place. But you're right, there's nothing we can do. Are we are we making a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the resoning as provided by the applicant. Second.

Second. All in favor? [clears throat]

It is what it is.

Are you going to ask for opposed?

I'm sorry.

I

Any opposed?

Oh, any opposed?

What? Um,

what passes? pass with one of those. Um, does that complete the resulting cases?

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Per. All right. Um, moving on to It's been a long day. Uh, announcements and petitions by board members. All right. Do I have a motion to adjourn this?

So move.

I'm sorry.

You asking for a journ. Can we make a plan about Yeah.

Can Can I have a motion to move

the um the old business um to next month's meeting uh on September 17th?

What's the old business?

Suggested zoning conditions discussion. I'll make a motion to move it to next month meeting.

Second.

Second. All right. All in favor?

I

All right. Vote passes. All right. At this time,

we got to

Oh, I'm sorry. [laughter] I'm sorry about that. All right. Do I have a motion to adjourn tonight's meeting?

Moved.

All right. Second.

All in favor?

I All right. Anything adjourns?

Just sleep. I just sleep, I guess.