Planning Board Meeting

Not really. I didn't really have vacation. My brother and sister-in-law came to visit.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to the town of Apex planning board meeting. Today's date is July 13, 2026. And I' like to please ask that you bow your head in prayer. Dear heavenly father, thank you for the opportunity to serve our community. Grant us the wisdom, discernment, and integrity as we consider the matters before us tonight. Help us make decisions that are fair, thoughtful, and in the best interest of all residents. Guide our decisions with respect and unity, and give us the courage to do what's right. Amen.

Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Okay. Items of information. Do we have any items of information from staff?

Hello, Amanda. Just one item. I have a new staff member introduction if I can have Bill come up here with me. And I got the [laughter] Okay, so this is our new planner 2, Phil Meyers. Uh, Phil recently joined the town of Apex and brings experience in local government planning with a focus on development review, zoning, and land use planning. He earned his bachelor's degree in urban design from Florida Atlantic University and is also a North Carolina certified zoning official. We're pleased to have him as part of the planning department and you'll see him in the future presenting resonings and UDO amendments. He'll be helping Bruce with that. And today's also special because it's his birthday. So,

happy birthday, Phil. Happy [applause and cheering] birthday. Welcome aboard, Phil.

You You can have a water on us. [laughter]

Only one now.

That's right.

Right.

Okay. Public comment if you have not done so already. To the left, you can uh you can sign in to speak on any agenda or non-aggenda items. Uh the purpose of public comment is to allow the public to speak on items that do not appear in this agenda. Any members of the public wishing to comment on public hearings will be called at the appropriate time later in the agenda. We do ask that all comments be limited to three minutes and not repetitive. If there's a large number of speakers for one particular item, the planning board may ask that a representative be selected to speak for the entire group and limit the comment to nine minutes. Uh do we have anyone signed up to speak on any non-aggenda items? I think we do.

Okay.

What's that?

Yeah, if you don't mind. That would be great. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Jeff. Uh hearing. None. We'll close public comment and move on to consent item number one. Um for the minutes for the J June 8th, 2026 regular meeting. I assume everyone has had the opportunity to review any discrepancies noted hearing. None. I'll make a motion to approve.

Second.

We have motion from Keith and a second from Mark. All in favor say I.

All oppose. Motion carries. All right. All right. Now we'll move into the public hearing section. We will have the same threem minute rule. Uh before we do so, I think we'd like to have a motion to recuse Alyssa Bird.

Make a motion to recuse Alyssa.

Have a motion from Jeff.

Second, Christie.

Second from Christie. All in motion. All favor say I.

I.

All oppose. Motion carried. All right, then we will move on now to item number one, public hearing and possible motion regarding resulting case 26Z03 Vidia SD amendment for the Wake Tech.

Thank you, chair. Uh good evening everyone. Bruce Fen, Planer 3 with the town of Apex. This will be a resoning to the Vidia SD conditional zoning amendment. Uh this is very similar to the one that you had before you at the end of last year for the hospital and some other considerations much like this. This is for the new Wake Tech campus that's being proposed on the site. that's going to be going to development and there's the aspects of the original zoning requirements such as block lengths and things like that that weren't really appropriate for a campus style development and that's kind of what the the applicant is looking we're looking to address today through this resoning and the amendments that are being proposed. So we'll go through those now. So for those who are not familiar it's located where the star is uh in the near the Vidia complex near 540 and highway 55. This is an aerial image of this particular site for the Wake Tech campus in specific um outlined in yellow here. Uh to the west you have the Dell Technologies shown and then to the south you can see we have NC55 the current zoning district. This is already zoned under the sustainable development conditional zoning for the Vidia development. This is just to amend this section to allow again for these exemptions that would allow for the campus to be built in a more practical way. So should this be reszoned, it'll look exactly the same. it'll just have different standards. Um the 2045 land use map has designated um for for all the different uh medium high density residential, industrial, commercial, office. Um this is not changing. So there's no proposed amendments to the future land use map as well. This will remain the same as well. So I'll just go over a quick summary of the proposed amendments before we have the applicant come and speak to you and answer any of your questions. So number one is uh for thorough affairs and sidewalks. It allows private thorough affairs and sidewalks to serve the Wake

Tech campus while maintaining public access easements along private sidewalks adjacent to public streets. Number two is for the B-grid redevelopment. Like we said, the grid isn't quite appropriate for the campus development. It exams it exempts it from those requirements intended to accommodate future redevelopment in the future. Um number three is for the community design standards. exempts the campus from again the block preliminary limitations certain public street frontage requirements applicable to lot front edge standards and everything else will default to the UDO if it's not mentioned in the SD plan number four for building standards exempts or modifies standards related to the lot dimensions building disposition setbacks frontages buildout multiple principal buildings and other principal entrance orientations. Number five is the building configuration and frontage standards. It exempts the uh requirements for the private frontage types, corner lots, stepbacks, expression lines, and other parking layer placement options that are happen with the formed code design, which is kind of what the SD development is. Glazing requirements. It maintains the glazing requirements on public facing facades while allowing for glazing on non-visible facades to be average. Street screens removes the requirement for street screens where no building fronts the street. And then number eight is parking and driveway access allows driveway widths to comply with the town of standards or TRC approval. Number nine, there's tables exempts the campus from several tables related to the SC plan that are outlined in the letter you received as part of your agenda packet um for design standards. Um and also table 14 to provide flexibility again for the block layout setbacks and building disposition. Number 10, permitted uses. It will add the vocational school as a permitted use for the campus property. it's not there already. So, they need this to be approved as well. And number 11, general campus standard requires all lots within the campus to front on a public street. So, that all that was laid out um in your letter and your agenda packet. You can review the language if you have any questions. We're happy to answer them. And the applicant is here as well.

Can you go back to number five?

Yeah, absolutely.

I just want clarification.

Yeah.

And maybe I should know this and I apologize if I don't, but parking layer placement, can you explain that just a little bit?

Yeah. So the uh the form based code for this sustainable development for Vidia depending on whether you have like your um you have the different within the development you have uh you have the different kind of basic broken up zoning districts that require the placements of like where the buildings have to be fronted up like on the street and things like that. Some of them would allow for parking to be in the first layer which would be closer to the front edge of the street and things like that. So it's kind of breaking that up so they have the options to really design their campus in a more efficient way.

Okay, perfect. Thank you. For number six, just because I have not heard of that glazing requirement is that is that windows.

Windows. Exactly. Yeah. So, they'll still be required anywhere you can see it from a public street, they'll still be required to have the same percentage of glazing on the street itself.

Yeah. And if where it's not visible, they do they are allowed to average around the sides. All right. Nothing else. The applicant is prepared to speak to you as well.

Thank you. Everything is open for you. Appreciate it.

Good afternoon. Matthew Carpenter with Parker Poe, 301 Fateville Street here this afternoon on behalf of Wake Tech. We got several folks with me. Um James Skinner with Wake Tech. Uh Scott Baltimore with HKS, our architect. James Een and Bronwin Reus with McAdams, our civil engineer and land planning team. Um, and so we've got a lot of folks here to to answer any of your questions. Um, this has been a, you know, this project has been underway for quite some time, but this afternoon we're excited to present to you the Vidia SD plan amendments which will allow the flexibility to deliver a permanent campus for Wake Tech um, in Vidia. And so, uh, Wake Tech is excited about this.

Um, you know, it's really a a big win for the town and capitalizing on the the momentum elsewhere in Veridia. Um, and I do want to take a moment to to thank staff. If you've gone through your application materials, you'll see how complicated the original Veridia SD plan was. And so staff and and our team at McAdams have spent a lot of time pouring through those documents, understanding um what technical provisions we do and don't need to change. um and they've got us here in in a very reasonable time. Uh and I think that the professional staff in Apex are a big reason why um Apex is continuing to see these types of big economic development projects because it it adds predictability um and and there are people to to help you get get to a yes. Um and so we we appreciate staff for for all their hard work. Um I wanted to give an overview of the Wake Tech project before we get into the specific Vidia amendments. Uh the plan for this campus is to relocate the existing Kerry facility for Wake Tech from Kerry to Apex. Um that facility is leased right now. Uh and so this will be a permanent campus that's owned, operated, run by Wake Tech. Um and like I said, this has been underway for a while. It's funded. The master plan has been approved by the board of trustees, which occurred last summer. Um and and really the goal for this campus is to target some of the biotechnology, pharmaceutical, advanced manufacturing uses in this area. You can see um in close proximity to the site in Holly Springs, Apex, there's the Amgen facility, Fujifilm, uh and and it seems like every day there's another that another company that's that's bringing their headquarters here or establishing a large presence in Western Wake County. And so the goal really um is to provide training to help fill those new jobs. So, you know, we we get big economic development wins. Uh these jobs are coming and then you've got to got to

train the the local workforce to to fill those jobs. And so that's what Wake Tech wants to do um with with this facility. And it's really really a perfect location in that regard. Um, as Bruce mentioned, the the purpose and the justification for these amendments is really similar to the Children's Hospital amendments that you recommended approval of, I believe, last December. Um, again, the the original Verdia SD plan didn't envision a large campus style um development. It it really wanted to mandate uh an urban design, something more akin to a downtown Apex or downtown Raleigh. Um and there are portions of RIDAI that will remain that way. Um but for this campus style development, those changes are are necessary. One big difference between the children's hospital amendments and these um if you remember from December, I know it was just just before Christmas last year, but um there were sort of two groups of the children's hospital amendments. One group that applied to all of Veridia, then one group that applied just to the children's hospital. These amendments only apply to Wake Tech. So, so just to the the roughly 35 acre property outlined in in red and shown in color um at the bottom right of your screen. So, they are a little more narrow uh and and and focused in than in the amendments last fall. Um and so to to continue that theme of you know trying to facilitate a campus learning environment, we we've got on the right side of our screen uh the the current iteration of our master plan. And so you can see that these are really large buildings meant to accommodate uh training facilities, education centers. Um and so you know it's not the type of grid atmosphere and development pattern um that the original Vidia SD plan proposed. And so I've tried to categorize some of these changes just to put them in in in plain English. Uh the first is to allow private roads and sidewalks. Those

aren't allowed under the current Vidia zoning. Um, in some areas we may need, you know, private sidewalks or private streets for, you know, deliveries or truck traffic, things like that. Um, the the second is an exemption from the urban street grid requirements. Again, the current Verdia SD plan sort of mandates small blocks um of of small blocks between a grided public street system. Um, and you can see with the master plan is laid out again uh as a campus with with larger buildings. Um and and that type of street grid is also not uh not helpful to create a pedestrian environment which is really important somewhere like Wake Tech where there's pedestrian safety common areas in between these these larger buildings. Um and then we we've also asked for an exemption from the block perimeter requirement. Bruce went through that. Um similar to some of the other street grid standards, block perimeter said that the there's a maximum length of how big a block can be. So, it was a sort of another way to require, you know, smaller downtown style grid network. Um, and and then finally, an exemption from the urban building frontage requirements, um, which which dictated, you know, how close to public streets that the the buildings had to be placed and where they had to front. Um, and then just just a couple more. So, so, uh, you know, in the last slide, we had the 2D rendering of the master plan. Um, you know, here is an an architectural uh rendering that HKS, our architects have worked on. Um, and again, I think it shows the the need for some of these amendments. Um, the the next amendment we're asking for that that I think there was a question about a minute ago is that the glazing requirement. um you know that glazing requirement again I think the the original requirement made more sense if you read it in the context of wanting to have downtown style storefronts where um there's a big expanse of windows in the front. You know, you're looking into a restaurant

or a bar. There's a pedestrian area on the street. Um these buildings again are much larger. They're they're educational buildings. Um and so does it doesn't make sense on every facade to have uh that type of transparency. we'll still have it uh as as the language requires with four facads placing facing the public right away. Um but in some areas that face a parking lot or uh it may make more design sense not to have as high of a a transparency requirement there. Um and then we've also asked for an exemption from some of the tables in the the VIDA SD plan. So there are written standards in the SD plan. Then there are also tables that uh reiterate and clarify some of those standards. So in in many of the places where we've asked for changes to the written requirements, we've also had to ask for an exemption from the table just to make sure that that there was no confusion there. Um but despite these modifications, the the reduced glazing requirement, I want to reiterate that uh Wake Tech has spent a lot of time and money and is continuing to spend time and money on the design. Um, and so I think what you're going to see when this is built is a high quality campus that that really adds a lot to Vidia and the town of Apex. Um, and so I've just shared so some of the renderings here. Um, this is the view from Forest Light Way, which will be the the main street on the left side of your screen that comes into Veridia from Highway 55. You see, we we've tried to use the the storm water pond as sort of an amenity at the front um to to help with the design as as you move into the campus. Um and then this this next rendering is from the other side of the building. So, you can sort of see the pond on the left side of your screen, I believe, in in the distance, but this is from technology way. So, the other side um of the campus to to give you an idea of what this end of the building will look like. Um, and you can see that that in this rendering, it it's shown as sort of a gathering area, uh, you know, where students,

professors might gather. And so, um, so, so that's the goal there. And [snorts] then finally, uh, I I pulled this rendering from the the Vidia website because I thought it did a good job, uh, of showing all the different projects, um, in Veridia that are upcoming. I don't even know that this is exhaustive. Uh, but it does give you an idea of what this could look like in the future. Um, and I think it really th this specific Wake Tech portion of Verdia uh really honors the original goal um of the Veridia SD plan that that was envisioned in 2011. It took a while to get here um but it it it meets that the goal for for really economic development, a mixeduse environment where you have residential um retail and now you'll have a children's hospital and a a Wake Tech campus. So, um, we think it really adds to to Vidia and it's consistent with with all the relevant long-range plans and respectfully request your recommendation for approval. Thanks.

Thank you, Matthew. Any questions for the applicant?

This was obviously staff spent a lot of time on this one.

I do have one question for Bruce.

What's that? I mean, I just want to make sure I'm I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but in the middle of this whole thing, when you go to the overview, there's like a flag lot in the middle of it.

That's still a privately owned

parcel that has not

they've decided to remain private. Correct. Correct.

Okay. So that's [clears throat]

and I can

but potentially we would see that come up in the future if if they decided to sell to Vidia/Wake Tech, we would see that come up to uh coordinate with the project that they're doing right now.

If if they ever decided to do that, yes, sir property owners like say for for those people that may be watching, I just want I thought I knew the answer but wanted to make sure that it was clear.

Yeah, I think there might be a cell

tower on the property at the moment.

There is a cell tower.

There is a cell tower there. So, okay.

The property owner is generating some type of revenue.

That's right. Okay. Perfect. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Excellent.

Okay. Any other questions for the applicant? Hearing none. If I run too soon, we'll move this into open public comment. However, the only person I have for public comment is Matthew Carpenter, who we've already heard from. Correct. So, hearing that, we will Anyone else would like to speak? Hearing none, we will close public comment and we will. All right. Bring it back to the board for discussion of possible motion. Well, I guess I'll start a little bit. I I think that all this is doing is crossing the tees without dotting the eyes

to clarify and quantify that um that they can move forward within the UDO. Again, to your point, Chair Brazwell, the staff has done an incredible amount of work on this as well as the applicant. And so, um, and I'll I'll tell you in in some transparency, my wife, uh, worked for Wake Tech for nine years in the North Campus and then for NC State in the BTE for seven years prior to working with me. Um, I see nothing but great things coming from the campus. Uh, I mean I live I I can I can probably throw a baseball and hit Amjen and the other complexes are going across friendship across US1 from my house at Friendship Road. But the difference that they're making in the world with vaccines and and the BTE industry. I think this is a great asset for Apex. Um, I think that having the education this close to the facilities themselves and the partnership that Wake Tech's going to have with them, I just don't

see anything but great things from this and I think that this makes total sense.

I concur with vice chair, Mr. Hastings. Any other comments?

I would just say that I appreciate staff and the applicant the time that you took and understand the changes that were necessary. very excited um that the colleges decided to make this investment in the area. I think it's going to be great for um the residents and their and the children and and people that living here so that they can get retrained uh for coming jobs. So I think it's wonderful and I appreciate everyone's time on it.

Absolutely. Very excited to see this town of Apex.

Anyone else? I don't know, but I just heard two motions. So,

I'll make a motion to approve.

We have a motion from Mr. Hastings. Have a second.

Second from Christie.

Have a second from Christie. All in favor say I.

All oppose.

Motion carried.

Thank you, Mr.

Corp. Corp.

All right. Oh, now we need a motion to uh bring Alyssa

back in.

A motion to bring Alyssa back in. We have a motion from Christie.

I'll second one.

Second from Mr. Hastings. All in favor say I. I.

All oppose. Welcome back.

All right. This will bring him bring us into item number two on tonight's agenda. Public hearing a possible motion regarding resulting case 26Z04 Evans Road.

Good afternoon planning board. It's a pleasure to present to you for the first time. Hi, my name is Thomas Rail and I'll be presenting reszoning case 26 CZ042913 So, this property is located on Evans Road north of Humei Olive Road in the Friendship area of West Apex. The property is on the east side of Evans Road just north of Amalfi Place

and the manners at Bellacasa. The lot is 46 acres and currently has one single family home and various detached accessory structures. The property is currently zoned rural residential with adjacent properties to the north and west zoned rural residential. Uh manners at Bellacasa to the south and east is zoned medium density residential conditional zoning. The applicant is seeking medium density residential conditional zoning. The applicant conducted two neighborhood meetings on March 23rd and June 22nd. You'll find those meeting reports in your staff report. Wake County schools indicated that schools at the middle and high school grade levels are anticipated to have insufficient capacity for future students. Transportation outside the assignment area is anticipated. Reassignment within the next 5 years may address concerns at the middle school grade level as there are no plans for expansion or construction within the next five years. The proposal exempt uh from EAB review and there's no recommendation from housing. The 2045 land use map designates this parcel as medium-density residential and the MDCZ zoning is consistent with that land use classification. In seeking the medium-density residential conditional zoning district, the applicant has limited their permitted uses to just two single family and accessory apartment and offered various architectural conditions. The reasonzoning is exempt from frontage improvements per UDO section 751B. Transportation and infrastructure development staff did recommend a condition for extension of curb and sidewalk to avoid future impacts if and when a public sidewalk project is initiated. The condition proposed is as follows. Developers shall extend curb and 5-ft concrete sidewalk from the existing terminus south of the property to the north terminus of the property frontage along Evans Road based on a 27 foot backto-back minor collector street

section on a 60-foot dedicated public right ofway. The applicant was informed of staff's recommendation but has not yet agreed to the condition as he is exempt from required improvements through 751B. Planning staff recommends approval of resoning case 26ccz04 with the aforementioned staff recommended condition. The proposed resoning is reasonable and in the public interest because it provides stricter architectural conditions than the UDO requires and allows the property to be developed in a manner consistent with residential character of the area. I'm here with any questions for you. The applicant is also here with any questions and um T staff is here as well.

Thank you Thomas. Thank you.

Um, thank you for the presentation. Is the idea for the applicant to uh subdivide the parcel into two lots?

Yes, he has told us he wants to subdivide the parcel into two lots and create two homes, one of which he plans to live in.

Is one of those the accessory? Is that

No, that's just a uh standard request. We ask for housing so that we can create more housing in town if um if a builder uh owner chooses to do so. So that's just a permitted use. Both lots would have their own home.

Okay. Is that two driveways or

uh that would be for that would be for NC DOT to determine. Uh staff did not craft a condition for them. I know you may be familiar with a reasonzoning last year on Evans Road that um conditioned only one driveway. Um Russell, would there be any That would be for DOT to decide.

I'll call up Russell Dalton.

Yeah, if we didn't request a condition for shared driveway, then they would be entitled to two driveways since this is a minor collector street. So, I'm I'm not aware of that special condition. We were just mostly concerned with extending curb and sidewalk. Um, given the limited amount of frontage and the fact you've already got curbon sidewalk right next door to this property.

Well, hold on one second, Russell.

because in [clears throat] the neighborhood meeting I see that the applicant applied has indicated that he wanted to have a shared driveway.

Okay. Maybe that was so if they already agreed to that condition if that was something that was requested then yes it would be if it's part of the zoning correct.

Yeah. So it may have been something we requested early on and

it's not written into the conditions. Um

so yeah

he he can choose to do a share driveway then heated that.

So he has the ability to do it

to one or two. Yes. whether he want whether that's not part of the condition of the zoning. So he can do a shared driveway

and that's up to him.

Okay.

Okay. Does that make

sense? Yes.

And that doesn't go through like the back of that property doesn't go through till a mile, right?

Correct. Correct. Yes.

Because the the uh property directly behind it and actually on the side is HOA property of um Inter Bellacasa.

Yeah. Is that where the mailboxes are? Yeah, there there are mailboxes along that stretch there. It's a little further back. Yeah.

All right. And there's sidewalk on the other side of Evans right now, right?

There is a five foot sidewalk on that side. Um, some resonings have called for extension or widening to a 10-ft side path because that's what the um plan calls for, but um yes, on this side, the existing sidewalk is is there.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

I have one.

Yeah. Oh, you go first.

One more question. What's the minimum lot size in this in the proposed zoning district?

Uh proposed zoning district. Um

there's just a minimum lot width of 50 ft. We don't have a minimum lot area requirement.

All right.

So, this would allow it's a 100 foot wide lot. He'd allowed he'd be allowed to have two, but he could not create two lots unless he reszone to medium density.

See, there's some commentary in the neighborhood minutes about sewer connections. What's the sewer situation off of that main road? Because I could see that he tried to get sewer

connection through the neighboring neighborhood twice and nature denied it. So, is there no sewer on Evans right there or

There is not, but he has worked with um water utilities here to um he's going to have a he's going to have an encroachment into Evans and connect down into that um uh the the manhole kind of right at the beginning of a Malfi. So, he will have sewer running down Evans uh a private I mean it'll be dedicated to the public at that point and the public right away but uh he's going to do that uh infrastructure investment in order to to have sewer there. Uh that was easier than than getting it through um through manners of Bellacasa um through their HOA property and then that would actually allow people further north to extend if they wanted to. How would that affect the house on the corner of Amalfi and Evans?

The sewer line would go within the rightway.

Okay.

Yeah. So, it's not going to

impact that that house per se.

That's correct.

And why exactly are they exempt from the transport from the transportation improvements? Is it the the lot size?

It's because if they're doing um Yeah. If you'll go to 751B, uh a site plan or subdivision plan that does not propose a subdivision of an existing parcel into more than four lots is exempt. And even so, if he wanted to create only one single family home here, he would be exempt as well.

If we recommend for approval, could we include the condition in our recommendation?

Uh the condition is proposed by staff for you to consider. um you have that option and you also have the option of not including that.

And he said the reason he didn't want to extend was because he felt that was already

Yeah. The the sidewalk um you know the applicant can can speak for that if he'd

like to. Um it would just be an extra investment he would make that is not required to make and so he's just deciding not to. The sidewalk connection and and the curb. Yeah, by UDO he's not required.

Correct.

Is is that a ditch section there now? I haven't been out there.

Okay.

Uh it's

Yeah.

Yeah. Small grade.

Yeah. It's it's not much of a ditch, but

clarify as well. So it is it is a minor collector street. Um so our standard for minor collector street is a curb and gutter 27 foot backto-back section with sidewalk. So that's what we've asked for is consistency with our standard. Uh we understand the UDO has exemptions built in there, but when someone comes in for resoning, we look at the context and consider what we think is reasonable and in the public interest. If it's not done, um then it will continue to be a shoulder section without sidewalk. And in the event that the town comes in with a project or an adjacent developer comes in with the project to extend is asked to extend sidewalk offsite, it becomes more of a problem in the future because then you've got new occupied homes that are there. There may be additional impacts outside the rideway. So what we're trying to do is go ahead and set it up. um get that done with the development understanding that the developer would be otherwise exempt from the UDO if not for the zoning condition.

Okay. Thank you.

Thanks.

I have a question about driveway again. I'm just looking at the size of the houses which seem quite large. Is it if it is a shared driveway and he's talking about putting the garages, is it going to be shared driveway house on either side or shared driveway house stack staggered backwards towards Eli?

Presumably, it would be it would be hard for me to, you know, speculate, but um the most logical place for a shared driveway would be in the middle between the two homes. Okay. Any more questions? Thomas.

Thank you.

Thank you. Would the applicant like to speak?

Any questions that you'd like to speak?

Sure. This is our applicant, Noah Holmes.

How you guys doing this evening? Uh just to clarify the plan given to us by or by me by Steve Miller. He sat with my engineer. Uh the sewer that would connect from Amalfi to the front of the property when subdivided would not allow for another connection from anyone else up the street per Steve Miller. We had two separate private which would turn public but private two separate to each house so that if one went down it wouldn't affect the other. So that was the only uh distinction I had for them. And then to answer your question, if we did one driveway, it would be in the middle and there'd be probably a five- foot shared easement just if someone backed into their driveway, they wouldn't have any legal recourse of being on their property. Uh, but we're still open to doing two driveways with the distinction that if the DOT says I have to do one, I'll probably do one, but if we do two, I'd like the option to do two. So, but that's with the NC DOT. So, but that's all I had for you guys. So, thank you. Any other questions for the applicant? All right. Thank you. Um, is that now we will go into public comment. Uh, we do have Shan Corona. Excuse me if I pronounce that wrong.

Thank you. Please state your name and address, Shan.

Yeah, thanks. So Sean Cordova, uh, 2132 Amalfi Place. Um, I live right there on the corner, Malfy and Evans, so kind of backing up right to the property. Um, thanks for letting me speak, by the way. Uh, few things I would say. Number one, um, you know, the house there is built in the 60s, so any newer house would be

a welcome, you know, it would look a lot better in my backyard, that kind of thing. Um but for me the plans um you know that I've seen and and seen him come up with um putting two properties in there that are not even exactly the same size orientation of everything in in you know Bellacas where we live. Uh but also the the time frame to get those built. Um they're talking you know three years to build both maybe you know longer depending on when stuff gets done. That's three years of construction noise debris like straight behind my backyard you know. So, those are those are some kind of concerns that I have and also trying to fit those two properties in just like some of the questions you guys had about driveways and stuff. Um, if you look at it, it does not have a lot of front space. So, really putting those in there is going to, you know, you're going to have houses that look a lot different than what's in um than what's in the manners right now or anywhere down that street other than some of the, you know, older ranch style 60s homes that are there. So, that's all I got. That's my two cents.

Okay. Thanks, Joe. Okay. And that's all we have for public comment. We'll close public comment. We'll bring it back to the board for discussion and possible motion. I mean, I had a couple of comments. I mean, the the uh proposed zoning seems to be um in accordance with the 2045 land use plan. Um, I asked a question about the lot sizes and the uh minimum lot width for that same reason that the gentleman just spoke because it seemed kind of narrow compared to the other lots surrounding it when you said subdivide into two parcels. So, I'm I'm not sure that I'm asking a question, just commenting, but

no, totally. I think we all saw that and thought the same thing. But ultimately, like you know, we're not here to judge

site planning. We're here for land use and it's consistent with the land use

and I do support the while this is exempt from the frontage improvements. I do support that u staff proposed amendment condition to extend curb and sidewalk as well. U but you know ultimately site layout is going to fall into an administrative realm.

Can I ask the staff one more question?

Absolutely. Um, I had a question about the setbacks on those lots. Do you know what the minimum size setbacks are?

Uh, divided two lots. [laughter]

I think the the

I can tell you.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that

it's going to be 16 total and with a minimum of 10 on one side and six or six on one side. So that would mean you could do six and 10.

So 50 the house box could be 34.

I got it. Okay. Thanks. just he would know he's designing the the property. [clears throat]

Well, I would say that as someone who lives in downtown and I'm used to seeing a 60s ranch and now it's three narrow things and I know that that um aesthetically looks different. It's taller, right? And it um and it backs up to other people's deep backyards that used to have gardens and now that doesn't. But to your point, that's not our issue. is like does it does it meet the land case and I would also support

the staff's um

recommended condition. So I would I would vote in support but I would really like to for the staff's recommend for consistency otherwise why like then just just drop it like to me that's how it is. I can I know that there our our exemption should be rare I think as rare as we can possibly make it so that it seems fair and not arbitrary to residents. And so we just want to be consistent. Well, if this were in the context of like not having any surrounding sidewalk or curb and gutter, right, that story. [clears throat]

Absolutely. This is a great

Yes.

Would that consider that

if if the sidewalk and extensions coming out of my pocket? No, I wouldn't. Um I know that you guys would be in charge of funding that in the future. Um, obviously I could probably do it, but I know that that's part of the DOT rightaway and all that and we'd have to get have to come together and figure all that out. Um, but I I would consider it if there was some kind of kickback, but I know that's not how that works for that kind of work. So,

okay. Thank you.

Well, any comments, ladies and gentlemen? Just one more thing, just something that Sean had asked at the neighborhood meeting. So build one, live in it, wait, build the other one. That's what's the threeyear.

Yes, ma'am. I'd build the first one as soon as I could get everything lined up, live in it for two years, and then sell it and probably build the second one for myself, too, and do the same thing. Getting back to the uh curbon gutter, is it more of a cost or is it more of going through DOT approval and working with the state on those details?

It would be both. Uh I think I've worked with

Does one outweigh the other though?

It would be the cost that outweighs it because I've worked with the DOT. uh talked with them briefly about the encroachment for the sewer and they seemed pretty open to the idea especially when I presented them with the base like idea that Steve Miller and my engineer came up with before the actual engineering. Um and they seemed really really on board with you know doing that. Uh so it would be come down to a cost thing at the end of the day uh to extend that further. Hey, thank you, Noah.

So, I have a question, and this is for

staff as well as for Noah. Could we do a condition that the curb and gutter be done before the second house is built?

We can.

Or is that Typically, you do it first.

Typically, you do first

because at that point in time, he's getting the the profit off the first house

that builds a bank account to do a carbon gutter for the whole thing.

Well, wouldn't it work? Wouldn't it work that way anyway? Because when he comes in for building permit for one, he's only they're only going to make him decide for the first one if it's a condition and then they have to decide for the second one. I'm not That's what I'm thinking would happen. Think staff. the zoning condition would have to be tied to the plat and so that doesn't help it doesn't

and that's what I thought but I just wanted to ask

okay thank you

to his point he's not going to build up build the 50% of it

yeah maybe he's got a reput I mean I don't question for you guys because if you're planning to have them redo the whole other side of the road to 8 foot. Are you guys going to come back in six, seven years and have me redo or it won't be me at that point. Hopefully not if the plan goes correctly, but that whole right side go to 8 foot2.

Our transportation plan calls for a side path now on the west side of Evans and a sidewalk on the east side. So unless the transportation plan were amended, then the the sidewalk is not going to change on the east side.

Gotcha. Okay. And then for the UDO and the exemption is that are we discussing you guys going against the like just like a how does the exemptions work if it's not

it's just us making a recommendation to

council.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

Okay. Sounds good. Cool. The council will make the

further discussion.

I have another question for staff. So if if the 2045 land use plan calls for all this area to be reszoned to the the new zoning designation, does that and forgive me for not knowing this, does that mean that in 2014 like when will the town adopt that and it just happens naturally versus him coming in as an applicant for a reasonzoning?

Right. So the the land use plan is adopted. Uh but it's a recommendation for where we'd like to see changes in zoning and and growth. So, um,

so somebody would have to come in and physically ask for it or will it eventually be reszoned to that?

Well, in order to get a medium density, whether standard or conditional zoning, they would have to re those rural residential properties would have to reszone. Um, the land use map shows those all as medium density um residential in the land use map. Um, so you could say that those green properties right now are inconsistent with the future land use map, but I think um the presumption is that those would be redeveloped. They're larger parcels. They're underdeveloped, per se.

Yes. The town's not going to initiate the resoning.

That's that's kind of Yeah, thank you.

And you know, lots of times they would be an assemblage of properties and you might see a subdivision, but Gotcha. Okay. So, exempt in the UDO, but transportation plan not.

What was that?

Was exempt from the improvements in the in the unified development ordinance,

but not in the transportation plan.

Right. And I think it goes back to the context of where it is. If this were we went back to that map and it was a bunch of green surrounding it and there was the one yellow island

sidewalk to nowhere kind of

sidewalk and yeah sidewalk to nowhere makes no sense but in this case in this scenario I think this recommendation

request does make sense

right

yeah I agree with that

with much sympathy to the conversation around costs right correct

I agree with that too is that a motion is

that is a motion to approve the reszoning case 26 CC04 with the staff recommendation to add the condition for extending the curb and 5 foot concrete sidewalk.

Second Christie.

Motion a second from Christie.

All in favor say I.

I.

All oppose. Motion carry.

All right. I see tonight we have no new business items. So we will be looking for more motion to adjurnn. We have a motion to adjurnn.

I'll make a motion.

Motion to adjurnn for Mr. Hastings. Do we have a second?

Second from Mark. All in favor say I.

All oppose. See you next week or next month?

Next month.