Regular Meeting

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Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.

call to order the March 12th meeting of the Kerry Town Council. And at this time, I'll recognize council member Bonsel for our ceremonial opening.

Thank you, Mayor. Good evening, everyone, and welcome to tonight's C town Council meeting. Before we begin, I would like to take a moment to recognize International Women's Day, which was celebrated this past weekend. It is a day to reflect on the achievements of women throughout history and to recognize the countless contributions women continue to make in shaping our communities. Progress has always been driven by people who are willing to step forward, raise their voices, and work to make things better for the next generation. Women across our community do exactly

that every day as leaders in business, educators in our school, volunteers in our nonprofits, caregivers in our families, and public servants in our government. Here in Kerry, I feel especially fortunate to serve alongside six incredible women colleagues on this council who bring dedication, perspective, and leadership to the work we do every day. At the same time, we deeply appreciate the leadership of our mayor, [laughter]

whose commitment to collaboration and service helps us guide our effort as a council. As the first Indian-American woman to be elected to serve on this council, this moment is also personally meaningful to me. It is a reminder of how we can come and together and how important it is to continue opening doors so that every girl growing up in our community can see herself as a leader and know that her voice matters. International Women's Day remind us not only to celebrate progress but also to keep working towards a future where opportunity is truly open to everyone. I'm grateful to serve this community alongside so many dedicated colleagues and residents who work every day to make Kerry stronger. With that, I would like to call this meeting of the Kerry Town Council. And if you could join me for a pledge of

allegianceled to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, we're now at the adoption of the agenda. Staff has requested to remove the revisions to policy 143 from tonight's agenda and bring it back at a future meeting date. This will allow staff additional time to continue working on the clarifications to the policy. Is there a motion to adopt the amended agenda?

So moved. Second.

There's a motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I. I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. We now move to recognitions, reports, and presentations. And our first proclamation is in honor of 311. And I'll invite staff member Sammy Campbell to meet me at the podium for this presentation. Good evening.

So maybe some people don't know what 311 is. 311. If you want to know anything about what's happening at town hall, you can dial or email or text 311. Burning question 311. Burning fire 911. That's the easiest way to remember it. They can answer just about anything you can come up with. All right. So, that is an incredible service that we have here in the town of Kerry. And to recognize that, I have a proclamation recognizing March 11th, 2026 as 311 day in Kerry. Whereas 311 serves as a vital connection between the town and community, providing res residents and businesses, visitors a simple and accessible way to request services, report concerns, and obtain information. And whereas the dedicated staff who

operate the town's 311 services demonstrate professionalism, responsiveness, and a strong commitment to delivering exceptional customer service to the Kerry community. And whereas these employees work diligently every day to ensure that residents questions are answered, service requests are routed efficiently, and community concerns are addressed promptly. And whereas 311 service plays a critical role in improving transparency, accessibility, and communication between the town and the people it serves. And whereas 311 Day celebrates annually on March 11th provides an opportunity to recognize the contributions of 311 professionals and highlight the importance of accessible municipal services. And whereas the town proudly acknowledges the contributions of its 311 team whose dedication helps maintain the high quality of life that residents expect and value. Now therefore, I, Harold Weinre Jr., Mayor of Kerry, North Carolina. On behalf of the entire Kerry Town Council, do hereby recognize March 12th, 2026 as 311 Day in Kerry and encourage all residents to recognize the importance of 311 services and staff and services and staff play in supporting our community proclaimed this 12th day of March, 2026. Thank you so much. Thank you. [applause]

Good evening. Uh on behalf of our 311 team, thank you mayor and thank you council for recognizing 311 day. We

truly appreciate your continued support for the people who helped connect our residents to their local government every day. Many of us on the team started from day one and it is a privilege to continue serving the Kerry community and to help keep our residents informed, engaged, and supported. Thank you. [applause]

We now move to the town manager update and I'll recognize interim town manager Russ Overton. Thank you, Mayor and Council. I appreciate uh council's discussion on the capital budget and other items at the work session tonight that we literally just wrapped up. Uh for those of you that are here tonight or maybe watching online and if you didn't catch it, um just a reminder, those meetings are live streamed and recorded. So, if interested, please go back and take a look. Also wanted to share a little good news. As some of you may know, The Nest at Downtown Kerry Park is once again nominated for USA Today's 10 best readers choice awards for best public playground. And you may remember, we won the award last year, ranked the number one playground in America. It's pretty amazing, honestly. And I know we'd all love to see Carrie bring home that award once again. But for that to happen, we need folks engaged, and we need people voting, voting online every day uh through noon on April the 6. You can go to USA Today to do that. Um and or go to the downtown Kerry Park and click the link at the right of the top of the page. So please help spread the word and hopefully we'll be celebrating again soon. And that's all I have tonight, Mayor. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Overton. Next item on the agenda is public speaks out. I want to thank everyone here in attendance for being here. We've included instructions for speaking at this forum online and on the printed agenda. There were three opportunities to participate in public speaks out through written comments by calling in

or by attending here in person tonight. If you are here in person and would like to speak, please take a seat in the rows to my right that are highlighted. Public speaks out speakers have three minutes each for their comments and may speak on any town related topic as long as it's not a public hearing. And since we have no public hearings, you can talk about anything you want. Three li three minute time limit will be enforced. Not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers. We have a timer on the podium. It will start with a green light. When it turns yellow, that means you have 30 seconds remaining. And when it starts flashing red, your time is expired. And that's the point I will interrupt you. Again, not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers. I would ask that speakers be respectful in their comments and direct comments to the entire council and not an individual. I thank everyone in the audience for understanding and respecting that this is a business meeting. This is not a town hall. This is a business meeting. Do not applaud, make remarks from your seats, use props, or do anything else that may distract from this business meeting. So, now is the time for public public speaks out, and I'll call on the clerk to read any written comments and call on any registered speakers.

We received 15 written comments. These have been emailed to council prior to the meeting, provided to council at their seat, and attached to the online agenda for accessibility. We have 20 speakers and our first speaker is calling in virtually and um Felicia Moore, you are our first speaker. If you could confirm you um can hear us and can speak.

Miss Moore can.

Yes, I can hear you.

Please proceed.

I'm sorry. Um, I had hoped to be there in person tonight in front of y'all, but

instead I'm here at the ether to ask the council to not just consider the ways this body could act over the ice expansion in town, but to actually act. I would like to ask council to consider the following actions, all of which are within the realm of Dylan's rule. Bring forth a resolution or make a statement of position. We are not asking you to say ICE, but we are asking you to say we care about our immigrant community. We value their safety and we do not want you to further expand here because that is contrary to that value. You could pretty it up however you'd like. If there have been any failures in procedure of permitting around this lease, I am asking that council consider and act on any consequences that can be given as a result of any failures in those processes. I'm also going to urge those on council who have expressed their concern to take that concern to the next step. There is procedural power here, a motion and a second. While we know the mayor has no desire to sign a statement or to openly position, we would like to see this voted on. I would like to see everyone at the table vote yes or no. I would like to see the discussion and debate around that vote publicly. If the answer is no, we will have our answer. The council may care, but they will not act and then those of us on the ground can decide where to further point our energy in the most useful places. I understand the tough spot that many of you are in at the table. I truly do believe and feel certain the issue matters to you all. But Dylan rule or not, we do elect you to represent our interest in this moment. This is a decision that this body needs to act on, even if it is just to show your constituents which way that action will go. Thank you.

Our next um registered speaker and first inerson speaker is Laura Wingat. Followed by Laura is Loren Mien.

Laura, can you move to your left, please? Thank you.

This mic. Okay. All right. [clears throat] Good evening. I'm Laura Wyan. I'm the executive director of Western Week Tennis Association. We're a nonprofit organization whose mission is to promote the spirit and growth of tennis in western Wake County, which includes the town of Kerry. And I'm here tonight just to highlight three awards that your Kerry Tennis Park staff or Kerry Tennis Park got that I think is important for the town to understand what a great um facility and staff you have there. The first award was given in 2025 um November 2025 by USA North Carolina and that went to Bill Reynolds. He was selected as the junior team tennis league coordinator of the year. Since 2022, Bill Reynolds has worked tirelessly to enhance the quality of programming and experience for all junior players. He oversees programs spanning ages 8 to 18, increasing team participation and ensuring matches are competitive and fun. He has added thoughtful rule adjustments and enhanced coach communication and development. He encouraged sportsmanship and careful carefully places in the right divisions. He's made JTT approachable and exciting for families. So, congratulations to Bill. The second award was also from US North Carolina and that was uh the Junior Tennis Council award and that was given to the entire Kerry Tennis Park staff. The staff at Kerry Tennis Park absolutely knocks it out of the park in terms of facilitating junior programs across junior team tennis circuits, junior tournaments of all level. They have uh elite juniors and and players that are just picking up a racket for the first time. But their team demonstrates a deep commitment to delivering clean, organized, and consistent product for young players and their families. The Kerry Tennis Park staff goes above and beyond by actively contributing to the broader direction of junior competition across the state. They step up, engage, advocate, and help shape solutions across tennis statewide. So, congratulations to them. The third award you got is a national award and

that was given by Racket Sport Industry magazine and they named Kerry Tennis Park Municipal Tennis Facility of the Year and y'all are a perfect pick for this. They CTP is known nationally for the facility and the events and the staff. With 25 outdoor courts, seven covered courts, four youth tennis and pickleball courts, it's one of the largest facilities in the Southeast, but you don't have enough courts. Um they provide local programs for all ages, levels of uh and levels of kids, adults, and people with disabilities. They have local and national events. They serve beginners to the top tennis players in the world. They host college tournaments and much more. From a community standpoint, Kerry Tennis Park facility and staff offer a very welcoming opportunity to play the healthiest sport on the planet. We're so lucky to have a facility and staff that works to make tennis available for all. They have helped to build what we believe is one of the best tennis communities not only in North Carolina but across the country. From a personal standpoint, I have to say frankly they make my job fun. I love working with your staff and I know from the top down and then from the bottom up their commitment to tennis is

interrupt the accolades. I know. All right. Well, congratulations to all of them and I gave you um information on so thank you. Our next speaker is Lorraine Mien, followed by Andrew Glute. Good evening. My name is Lorraine Mian. In January and February, Kerry Theater featured the movie The Voice of Hinrab. It has been highly criticized because it portrays the death of a six-year-old girl as a victim of the Israel Defense Force. It features her heartbreaking voice asking, begging for help, but falsely implies that the tragedy is Israel's fault. I ask Carrie, mayor, and council to cancel that movie because

such propaganda is deliberately provocative and incendiary and that affects members of this community. It incites Jew hatred at a time when anti-semitism is at an all-time high in North Carolina and in our country as we saw just today with two more incidences. Leaders of the Hin Rajab Foundation have known ties to Hezbollah and have repeatedly voiced their support for the murders, the rapes, and the kidnappings by Hamas on October 7th. The first response I received said, "Mayor and council are not involved in operational decisions and do not make decisions on what is shown at the theater. Basically, not my job." Another response was far more thoughtful, demonstrating effort and concern, yet stated, "Art is highly subjective and controversial art will elicit a wide range of opinions." theater management responded responded with quote the intent is to provide a diverse set of programming unquote. I guess that means it's okay when programming dehumanizes and malign Jews. But deliberate lies and falsehoods do not require balance. They should not even be considered at all. If this were a piece of art maligning Hispanics or blacks or another minority, would the responses have been the same? Unfortunately, once the lie is out there, you can't pull it in. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. A lie repeated often enough becomes accepted truth. I asked Harry Theater to feature well doumented, truthful films which tell the events of October 7th through the eyes of Israeli victims and victims from other countries, telling what they endured and what Hamas bragged about and posted on videos on the net. I suggested two titles, but there are many more. Despite commitments to do so, as of this morning, there are still no plans to so show such films on the theater schedule. I expect more from

this town, a town that claims a progressive approach to challenge right on its web page. I guess progressivism applies only to certain community members, not everyone. I asked the theater, which is supported by tax dollars, to actively review those movies whose names I provided and others in that genre and schedule showings as it would any other movie with the intent to serve our diverse community, unless of course the truth really doesn't count. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Andrew Gluck, followed by Maria um Rouse. Hi, my name is Andrew Gluck. Just want to expand on what was just said. Uh while ago, many years ago, there was a photo of a young child in Gaza being shot. made the rounds of the world being shot by Israel IDF forces drew the eye of everybody. Unfortunately, it was all staged and false just like this movie was. There is no proof to this ever happening, but that you put it on stage as a documentary as truthful. People try to find out how this made onto the Carry Theater and it was told it was done by a committee. Freedom of Information Act was requested. It turned out that was not true. It was done by one person. What were they hiding when they said it was a committee? Did they realize they messed up? No. Wouldn't admit anything. But when you put something out as a documentary that is not a documentary, but it is false, just like that photograph, Hamas is known to put out false information. One time they said a 100,000 people were killed in in Gaza.

Even they had to lower it. It turned out it was much much lower. Was 42,000 and the majority of those were Hamas terrorists. It's amazing how false information gets accepted by certain groups without doing research. A movie being put on that has no proven factual basis to it but given out by a terrorist organization by both Hamas and Hezbollah. And this is how the Terry count town conducts to do movies at a carry theater without checking the veracity of anything being done as a documentary. If it's false, it's false. You have to put it up as fiction, but you did not do that. And then we got lied to about how it was selected. That needs to be investigated by this group here. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Maria Rouse, followed by Caro Yao.

[snorts]

Hello, town council. Thanks so much for um allowing me to speak today. Um my name is Maria Rouse. I am from the Apex Kerry area originally um having moved here with my family when I was 6 years old in 2005. Um and I've really appreciated growing up here. So it was really important for I think for me to speak on this today. Um, and I'm also, I want to mention a, um, organizer with the Party for Socialism and Liberation in the area. Um, so, as I'm sure you know, back in November during ISIS operation Charlotte's Web, 23-year-old um, Fatima Isila Velasquez Antonio was kidnapped and detained by Immigration Customs Enforcement, taken from her workplace here in Kerry to a detention center in Lumpin, Georgia. She had a valid work permit and no criminal record. She came to this country as an unaccompanied minor nearly a decade ago.

And I bring up uh Fatima's name today because her story shatters the narrative that we are fed um by people in power. Um it tackles the Trump administration's main point that we need to expand ICE because our communities are dangerous. The truth is many of the immigrants detained by ICE in the triangle like Fatima have no criminal record. Um but we must also be clear that everyone deserves due process regardless of their record. Um, according to the fifth amendment, um, town council, I think you have a real responsibility to speak out against the crimes ISIS is committing right now. Um, when the border patrol came to the triangle in November, our community did not look away. We organized. We fought back. We prove that we are stronger when we are united. Um, and we need you to listen to our demands. And we cannot afford for elected leaders to fall under political pressure and stay silent. Um, as ICE plans to open another office space right here in Kerry, where we and thousands of our immigrant neighbors have made our homes and our lives, you only need to take a brief look at at places across the country that have sat back and accepted ISIS presence um without any um push back and see that we cannot let the same happen here. I don't believe that the answer is rolling over to this illegal activity. Um, town council, I urge you to join the community in fighting back um in in the ways that you can and speaking out against ICE. Um, as a community, we fought back against ICE in November and successfully sent them packing and um, obviously based on the steadfast involvement of many folks here today who were at town hall last Thursday. We've been showing up and organizing for months to protect our community. We can and we must publicly condemn ICE, say no to ICE and Carrie, and make it clear that they are not welcome here. Um, the lives of our community members are what's at stake. Thank you. Our next speaker is Car Yao followed by Whitney Kidd.

[clears throat] Mayor and council members, good evening. I would like to thank all of you for allowing me to speak here. My name is Carter Yao. I am a high school student that has lived in Kerry for over a decade. This town is recognized as one of the best places to raise kids in the entire country. A fact I can attest to firsthand. And for that, I am grateful for you all for providing us with such a great environment for growth. As the founder of the nonprofit Asian Blooming Artists, or ABA, I'm here to tonight to propose hosting an art showcase at in the Kerry Town Hall. We are currently hosting the inaugural Asian-American Youth Art Competition. We're collecting artwork from Asian-American youth across Kerry, aged 15 through 19. Asian-Americans make up over 20% of K's population. And May is Asian-American Pacific Islander Heritage Month, which is which is an important time to appreciate how our cultures contribute to K's identity as a welcoming and inclusive community for everyone. The theme of this competition is peace. In a time when conflict and division are more and more present in the world, it is a theme that resonates with all of us and perhaps most of all with a younger generation who will inherit it. This competition gives young Asian-Americans a space to share how they feel about the world and how and express their thoughts and emotions through art. An art committee will select 30 to 50 works as finalists and through public judging, different tiers of winners will be selected. Public participation in voting will showcase the artistic talent of Asian-Americans and help engage with the community. We are proposing to hold this showcase in May during a AAPI month and we hope that Kerry Town Hall can open its doors to exhibit these works. We wish for this event to be held

annually, inspiring more young people to express themselves through art lit uh improving art literacy and using art as a medium to build understanding between us. As for how we will make this happen, I have volunteers under my nonprofit that will help organize the event. They will curate uh as well as I have judges from the local art community who will select the finalists. We would be honored to bring this celebration of art and culture to Kerry Town Hall and contribute to the great town that Kerry is. Thank you for your time. Our next registered speaker is Whitney Kidd followed by Joanda Malone. Good evening. Um, my name is Whitney Kidd and I'm a citizen of Kerry, childhood military dependent, state worker, and a member of Wake County Indivisible. We are concerned about the leasing of 11,000 Regency Parkway by Foundry Commercial to the uh federal government to expand ICE presence in the triangle. Firstly, we reject um the mayor's previous statements that we should ignore this information and that making a public statement about it is asking for an invitation from ICE. This is the kind of passive societal disengagement that the current federal administration counts on to continue their lawless dismantling of our freedoms. [snorts] ICE has a potential budget over of over $85 billion. They are going everywhere and they're not asking for invitations and they're certainly not announcing their presence. We need the record to show and our elected officials to know that ISIS's manufactured chaos makes our community less safe and they are not welcome here. While we understand that city officials may not have the ability to control the leasing of private property, releasing yourself of any responsibility by claiming that you have no power whatsoever or that you

know nothing about it is not an acceptable response from elected officials. ISIS killing people, including US citizens, they're separating families and deporting children to detention centers with no access to education or clean water and then lying to the public about it. Asking us to stay silent and hope for the best is no longer a luxury afforded to citizens of this country when these are the stakes. Numerous cities like Asheville, Chicago, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Seattle have implemented ice-free zone policies, which are land use and administrative policies that limit federal uh that limit federal agencies from using city or county owned property as staging areas, processing sites for arrest or operational bases for civil immigration enforcement. These policies can disrupt infrastructure for large-scale raids, reasset reassert local control over public property, and instill trust between immigrant communities and you, our local government. Although these policies may not prevent ICE from racially profiling and disappearing innocent people off of our streets or leasing administrative property in our city, they do signal support for your immigrant constituents and oversight of ICE in our community from local government. Further, these policies can specify that arrests on city property must be supported by judicial warrants as opposed to the administrative warrants that ICE creates themselves. The city of Minneapolis alone reported $81 million in lost revenue in January 2026, and thousands of students transition to remote learning because they were afraid to go to school. When ICE came to Wake County in November, Wake County schools reported a 67% increase in absences over normal levels. Our president can wage war against Iran to distract us from what he's doing here in the US, but our eyes are open. We ask that you take this threat of ICE and our demands seriously. Respectfully, you work for us and you should care about keeping our your constituents safe. Listen to our concerns even if it is not convenient for you.

Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, [snorts]

Jolanda. Um, Malone is next fall by

Laura Pay. Good evening everyone. My name is Jalanda Malone. Sometimes you may not want to focus on the future, but you don't like where the future is heading. You start to feel a sense of anxiety, fear, doubt, and worry because you don't know if you or your family or community members will be okay with ICE in your community. It doesn't make me feel safe. It doesn't make me feel protected. And it surely doesn't feel right to my heart. I say this because I am a citizen. However, look at me. Look at the color of my skin. Maybe even look what my first name is. Will they look at me and assume that I am an immigrant? That I am here illegally? that I am a criminal, that I should be detained even though I have the rights, even though I have paperwork to show that I was born here. I'm saying this to bring perspective because it's just not the immigrants that are being affected. A lot of people are being labeled because they look a certain way. What is a human being to you? Someone of certain racial background, certain income, move speaks in a way that makes you feel comfortable. See, we are all humans regardless of our ethnicity, background, or our life experiences. We have rights and we deserve to be looked at and treated as a human being. So I come here today because I ask for you guys to consider people that look like me trying to go to work, take care of their family, take care of their pets, contribute to society to help us not have to worry about whether we'll be stopped or whether we'll be treated a certain way just because I'm just being myself. I'm someone's daughter. I'm someone's granddaughter. I'm someone's child. I am a human. Please help us from not having ICE offices or detention centers in our town. Thank you. Next speaker is Laura Pay followed by Lynn Tovar.

Hello. Thank you for letting me speak. My name is Laura Pay. I'm a triangle resident from Durham. I'm speaking today because the ICE offices in Kerry are the only ones in the triangle. The people grabbed off the streets in Durham this November were taken to the field office in Kerry before they were shipped out of state. This affects all of us. I understand that the federal government and its agencies have supremacy and we can't just tell them to leave, of course, but that doesn't mean that we have to play nice and sit back quietly. As city council, you can consult with lawyers for any ordinances that could be passed which would help protect the community from ICE activity. You can coordinate with local law enforcement in preparation for the return of street level ICE and border patrol activity in the area so that they can be a resource for the community when ICE actions appear unsafe or unlawful. You can adapt signage for homes and businesses and other know your rights education from other cities with town of Kerry branding to show that you support people in exercising those rights. You can create a special committee with immigrant community leaders and advocacy organizations to tackle this issue as a team. At a minimum, you can pass a resolution that reflects Car's commitment to its immigrant residents and citizens, and that ICE expansion is not wanted here by the community or the city council. Right now, SMRA is calling for Greensboro City Council to make a blanket statement that they will never allow a detention facility in their city because taking a public stand matters. These are not normal times. It is not fair to you as a city counsel council that you are having to deal with this. But I want to encourage you to be bold, to stand up for us, the residents of the triangle, those of us who are afraid for our neighbors and those who are afraid for themselves and their families. I know that you may be concerned about speaking out and whether that will create more trouble, but trouble is already here. I would suggest to you that at no time in history has silence and compliance been the winning strategy in the face of wrongdoing. We will continue to call and email our state and federal representatives, and we will continue to demonstrate. But if we are to turn the tides on what is happening in our country, it must start with us

locally and with you standing up for our community. Thank you. Our next speaker is Lynn Tovar, followed by Kathy Martin. [snorts] Mr. Mayor Weinre and council members, my name is Lynn Tobar. I am a Kerry resident from District A um and a member of a faith community that sits in the heart of Kerry St. Paul's Episcopal Church. I am joined by others from St. Paul's and we stand here before you to express our concern about the news of an additional ice facility in planned or proposed in Kerry. And I ask you as representatives of the city to do it to explore all options to oppose this ice expansion in our area. Our diosin bishops have condemned in the strongest way possible the pattern of intentional violence and abuse of power by our federal government and in the actions of ICE. and that we cannot ignore this moment because these atrocities come on the heels of months of additional abuses including the abduction of children and the abuse of the elder elderly, the disregard of for basic pro protections of American law, such as the fourth amendment of the constitution and the reckless destabilization of the rules-based international order that has kept millions of vulnerable people safe for generations. s and this comes from a statement from January from the Episcopal um dasis bishops of North Carolina. As Christians, as humans,

we are urged to stand for the vulnerable and to give voice to those who can no longer speak for themselves. This makes us, this makes me believe strongly and clearly that it is a wrong step for the town of Kerry to allow ICE expansion into our area. Where there is a will, there is a way. Other communities have blocked efforts to expand detention centers and other activities of Customs and Border Patrol and ICE. We can too. Thank you for standing up for the town of Kerry. Our next speaker is Kathy Martin, followed by Alexis Williams. I am considerably shorter than anyone else that's been up today. Uh, my name is Kathy Martin. Um, I am shorter. I can't see the people on the other side. Um, we've already heard a number of comments about the ICE expansion. I wrote an entire page that would take barely less than three minutes. So, uh, I think I'm just going to step down to the most important thing I wanted to say tonight.

[sighs and gasps]

First of all, last week I was here last week and I want to address the idea the mayor said that by doing nothing he seeks to keep the attention of ICE away from Kerry and thus protect his neighbors. And while I appreciate that and I've heard it before, it's not the first per he's not you're not the first person to say this,

the fact is it doesn't work. And here's the most important thing to remember is that people who are into cruelty and chaos will use your moral compass against you. They know that you will feel responsible if you do something that is linked to something that harms other people and they will use your conscience against you to keep you silent. So think about that. Please think about that. You cannot save people you c from harm by being silent. The current administration is using ICE in a way that it's never been used before. ICE has been here since 2004, 2001. And the way ICE was used by previous administrations, perfectly legitimate. let's deport people who are violent, who are convicted of violent crimes. But that's not what's happening now. That is not what's happening now. And we need to fight back against this illegal use of force in our town. And please, it will not be your fault if violence comes here. and the other and and even if violence doesn't come here, they about 50 lawyers show up in suits, they're here to support violence in our neighboring communities and we cannot morally support that. We need to work against any ICE

expansion in Kerry. Thank you. Our next speaker is Alexis and Williams followed by Christian Joerger. Good evening. My name is Alexis Williams and I'm speaking tonight not only as a Kerry resident but also as an immigration attorney. Every day in my work, I help people navigate one of the most complex legal systems in our country. People who are starting businesses, raising families, and building their lives and contributing to our society, not only in North Carolina, but in the United States. I want to begin by acknowledging that immigration enforcement is a federal responsibility, and I understand that our town may not have a set legal path to prevent a federal agency from leasing a private office space. But recognizing a legal reality does not mean our community or its leaders have no voice or are completely powerless. While I, as a lawyer, understand very well the bind that a local government faces when it is up against a federal agency, particularly one that notoriously seeks to intimidate its way into complacency, I take issue with the idea that nothing can be done, and the rhetoric around this issue concerns me, as it seems the plan is to simply submit when other cities in similar situations have found ways to combat ICE expansion. What concerns myself as well as many other residents is the lack of transparency about what this office will actually do, how many people will work there, and what impact it could have on the surrounding area. Furthermore, the location matters. Cocoa Booth Amphitheater is one of K's most beloved gathering spaces. Every year, thousands of families walk pal those paths during the Chinese Lantern Festival, surrounded by glowing lanterns celebrating art, culture, and tradition from around the world. When I think about Carrie, I think about that scene. I think about children running through the lantern displays, family sharing food and music, and people from different cultures celebrating together. That is the carry I'm proud to live in. It is also the carry you see when you walk through our

immigrant-owned local businesses. Whether it's enjoying a meal at restaurants like Sassul or SAP, grabbing pastries at Breco, or visiting the many international restaurants and markets that make our town one of the most culturally vibrant places in the triangle. Those businesses exist because immigrants chose Kerry as the place to build their dreams. As someone who works in immigration law, I see every day the determination, resilience, and hope that our immigrants bring to our state and our country. In turn, our community has grown stronger economically, culturally, and socially because of that. So, when residents hear that an immigration enforcement office may be picked next to a place where we annually celebrate cultural diversity, it raises an important question. Does that reflect the spirit of the community we have worked so hard to build? Even if the town cannot control a federal lease, our leaders can still advocate for the people they represent. So, I respectfully ask two questions tonight. Will the town commit to formally requesting transparency and community impact information from federal officials before this office becomes operational? Second, will the town and its leaders commit to protecting all residents of Kerry from a potentially harmful environment by making it clear that they stand with its immigrant residents? I hope our leadership will continue to advocate for the identity of Kerry and encourage conversations about positive immigration reform that strengthens families, businesses, and communities rather than decisions that risk creating fear or division because immigrants make our community great and Carrie should be a place for everyone. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Christian um Joerger followed by Jackie Gotauty.

[clears throat]

Good evening. My name is Christian Jerger and I reside in Kerry. My comments are related to the ICE office at 11,000 Regency Parkway. The White House claims its ICE operations are about crime, violence, the economy, and

drugs. Thank you. These these ICE operations are not about safety. Of those people rounded up by ICE, fewer far fewer than 14% have a record of violence. The National Institute of Justice found undocumented immigrants are arrested at less than half the rate of US-born citizens. The ICE operations are not about the economy. The American Immigration Council states that in 2023, undocumented immigrants paid $89 billion in federal, state, and local taxes. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that they will add $1.2 2 trillion in federal revenue over the 2024 to the 2034 period. These ICE operations are not about drugs. According to the American Immigration Council, the the majority of fintel smuggled across the border comes not from migrants seeking entry, but by US citizens. Between October of 2018 and June of 2024, roughly four and five people apprehended for smuggling finel at the border were US citizens. The architect behind the ICE operations is one Steven Miller, chief deputy of staff at the White House. Before entering the White House, Steven Miller served as an editor at the farright publication of Breitbart. He uh a leak of internal emails revealed his alignment to white supremacy, and he made frequent reference to the white power novel Camp of Saints, which describes non-whites as invasive savages. He will later work with Senator Jeff Sessions, helping craft policy to roll back civil rights, weaken voter protections, and target marginalized communities. His work in government has consisted entirely of targeting and disenfranchising people not like himself. Even now, the GOP is fighting to push through the Save Act, which will disenfranchise millions of people across the country, including married women, on the basis of their legal name no longer matching their birth name. Nobody is safe. Steven Miller wants to rid the United States of anyone who is not white, straight, and Christian. With his partnership with Russ Fa, the author of Project 2025 with Donald Trump and the

timidity of our nation's leaders, he comes closer and closer to that goal every day. What we are facing is nothing less than a white nationalist movement hellbent on securing power and racial purity. And ICE is the sword of that movement. I realize it may not be the position of this body that it does not have the authority to say no to the federal government and that 11,000 Regency Parkway may be considered uh personal property. But I tell you from experience abusers see silence as obedience and they love that and we must fight them at every inch of the way. Thank you for your time.

Our next speaker is Jackie G followed by Jennifer Valentine. Good evening. My name is Jackie Gotautle. I lived in Kerry for many years. Mayor, you should be very proud of your role in K's growth. We are all feeling traumatized and yet still work to keep democracy. But if you feel resign you that you've resigned yourself to being a figure head because you feel we don't have the authority over the federal government. Something you can do is enable your council and town me town manager to make decisions and take viable actions. If you would please envision a scenario where businesses close, residents stay home, not attending Cocoa Booth events, and Kerry Park is desolate. Lots of lost revenue. GSA leased a thousand 11,000 Regency Parkway for administrative offices. Why? Why there? Well, if I was scouting locations with plenty of space, I would look for a place that offers potential growth, has multiple uses, and is

inconspicuous. I would start out small and slowly spread out. Start with lawyers. They can create a plan for expansion. Potential growth from 11,000 building to include the 9,000 8,000 buildings. A large parking lot to store and assign ICE fleet vehicles. Agents driving through carry daily hourly. Conference rooms large enough to host strategy meetings that include Bavino Homeman. a good location to interview new ICE agents just and host a hiring fair. And the best part is Cocoa Booth is an awesome space to host events, parties, and ICE training. Don't think it's plausible? Then why select a location with no fencing, no security, adjacent to a public venue? They know, we know they are there and they don't and that we won't that we don't want them there. Don't underestimate their corruption. Why? Because we have already witnessed the unlikely, the unfathomable, the unlawful by them. What does the future look like? The entire area enclosed as a compound where Cocoa Booth is no more. Businesses they are gone. The trail head is closed. And this is what your lasting legacy would be. the destruction of Carrie instead of all the good of all these years that you've done to this date. We have a choice. Eh, I have no power, no control. Why bother trying? They rule me. I accept handling handing over my authority. Or before it's taken away, decide to do everything in my power despite the barriers, risks, and fear. Is important to remember that it's nearly impossible to get them out once they occupy. Several ICE facilities have been stopped by local businesses lead business leaders who recognize the facility would ruin their profits. You have everything to lose.

I'm sorry I have to interrupt you.

Okay. Inspired. Thank you.

Next speaker is Jennifer Valentine followed by Maria Crosby. Hi, I'm Jenna. Say what? I'm a political streamer. Every day I report on ICE, their overreach, and the ahorent conditions that people are kept in. I use aorent in a very loose term, by the way. Uh we have reports, attained food, guards waging bets on who's going to commit suicide next, and people that are being sexually assaulted. Yes, those are reports. We have DHS aids like Cor Corey Luwendowski saying, "I'm not worried. I'll do whatever the I want. Trump will just pardon me." And whenever you have someone above you saying something like that, that's a green light to do whatever you want. Add just 42 days of training. I'll give you a wild guess as to why they came up with that number. Uh yeah, but I digress. We are in an unprecedented time and our leaders need to stand up and say we will not have a concentration camp in our city because Kerry is safe place for everyone. I mean we were just talking about best public park playground. Bye. See you. Uh Asian the population what was it? 20% he said lantern festival. See you. Bye. That's going to be gone. If ICE moves into town, we'll watch our schools and streets be pepper balled like they did in my home city of Chicago. We'll ser citizens being murdered in the streets like they did Keith Porter, Ruben Ray Martinez, Alex Prey, and so many others. We'll watch people beg and plea for ICE agents to

let them get through to aid their victims. But they'll stop us, leaving them to drown in their own blood like Renee Good. It is not illegal to observe, record, and make noise, but for Renee and Alex, those were death sentences. Our elected officials need to listen to us now more than ever. My question to you is, if you're willing to roll over and show your belly to this administration, what else are you willing to roll over for? Are you going to give Trump our voter data as well? My question is, if statistically we have 11 million undocumented migrants in the United States and they're being deported, then why the hell do we need 250 facilities nationwide? This speaks to the broader threat that Americans will eventually be housed here. The only way to quell that fear is to say no to another ICE facility. Allowing one sends the wrong message. Do the right thing. Keep our beautiful city of Kerry beautiful. Take a stand. Make us proud. Thank you guys. Our next speaker is Maria Crosby followed by Lucas Tyler. Good evening. It's Marina Crosby. Um, thank you for the opportunity of addressing you again. On November 20th, I requested that the council publish the total impact of ISIS operation in Kerry, including the types of businesses and day that businesses were closed, absences from work, economic calculation of loss, K12 absences in schools, number of arrests, totals of those people that had criminal charges, civil immigration charges, and legal residents and citizens that they shouldn't have taken. I did not hear back. On March 6th, I wrote to the email

address town.nc.gov and I heard back from three of you. If the mayor is tallying our messages and using the number of them as a way to gauge interest from the citizens, it is very important to confirm that you're getting our messages. If our messages are going to your spam folder, I'm afraid you're probably underounting. I ask that the mayor report the emails with actual numbers since dozens is too vague to gauge anything. Several municipalities have expressed concerns similar to what our mayor expressed in the state of Kerry Q&A session. Namely, the concern that if the council made a public statement, it would be drawing immigration enforcement's attention and putting the people they're supposed to protect at risk. I am an immigrant and I have not found one immigration advocacy organization that supports that notion. CMRNC has sent out and encouraged Fourth Amendment resolutions. El PBLO features on their website a statement from the Legislature Progressive Caucus. El Centriano has nothing to effect. Could you please tell us who you're getting this notion from? Acuing in advance is the opposite of advocating. So, please do not stay silent in the name of immigrants who need you. Finally, I don't think anyone can feel safe considering the with an um ice expansion considering what happened in Minnesota. So, I ask you to please do the study on economic and educational impact and publish the losses that Carrie suffered with only one day of activity in November. That data will give you the information

to assess the impact that sustained activity would have in our town. Expressing that concern in a resolution is well within your remitt and well within the law. Thank you.

Our next speaker is Lucas Tyler followed by Kane Ferguson. Hello. I'm here to talk about ICE. And I know you've heard a lot about that so far, but everyone here, or at least most people here know that ICE agents rarely get background checked. From what I've done, like I've done a little bit of research. I found that bridge investment is a huge stakeholder in Regency Park. Have you not considered at all that this council can use your platform to urge them to reconsider uh leasing the property to ICE, which ICE, they're sneaking in the back door of this town. They're trying to hide it from everyone here. Last time I came here, which is last Thursday at the protest, someone walked up to me and told me that ICE has already been here. Everybody knows that. They're trying to get a second office here. No one wants that. These people have no training at all. They think they have immunity. 25% of K's population is foreignb born and y'all are one of the safest towns there is. If ICE comes in here, they're going to ruin that. That's all I can say.

Our next speaker is Connine Ferguson. ask.

Hello, my name is Colleen Ferguson and I live in Kerry. At this point, it's clear that ICE is attempting to make Kerry its North Carolina capital. It's a great location given our more than 26% immigrant-born population. In addition to the facility

on center west court, ICE is now leasing office space near Kokaboo Amphitheater for a team of lawyers. Detention center plus legal office means a sophisticated deportation machine in Kerry. That is a danger to everyone in the triangle. In the mayor's address last week, he shared Kerry's status as the number six number six safest city in the US. Does the council really think that will continue if ICE is allowed to bolster their activities here? I understand that the Dylan law means that our local government cannot take direct action, but to refuse to make so much as a statement supporting our immigrant population is unacceptable. The idea that making a statement would draw ICE attention makes no sense because ICE is already here and they're not going anywhere. At this point, we are not asking you to pass laws you can't pass or enact an ordinances you can't enact. We are asking you to care, to take action that goes beyond saying, "Well, this breaks my heart, but I can't do anything about it." Take a stand with the immigrants you claim to care about. The only force that can protect our immigrant population in Kerry and around the triangle is the collection of concerned organizers and activists who are working around the clock to monitor ICE activity, connect with neighbors who may be at risk, and provide access to legal support. We will need more than that to really defeat ICE. We must escalate our efforts in applying pressure to the building owners at 11,000 Regency Parkway. We must use our dollars to boycott Kerry businesses who support ICE. We can even refuse to attend events at Kukaboo Amphitheater while ICE operates nearby. If ICE comes in full force, we need mass strike action to shut down business as usual like we saw in Minneapolis. If the town council can't pass laws against ICE, they can still support our organizing efforts. A line is being drawn and it is time to decide which side you're on. Do you support the people of Kerry or the brutality that ICE will inevitably bring? In action speaks much louder than any statement ever could. I think it's

also worth stating that injustice here is directly connected to injustice everywhere in the world. Free Palestine and thank you.

Where are we on the speakers? We have a one-hour time limit.

Um we have two more registered speakers.

Okay. And where are we on the time?

Um, we started at 6:40 and 7:31. So, we have

Okay.

nine more minutes.

Um, our next speaker is Mura B,

followed by Marilyn L. Excuse me.

Hello. Um, my name is Mera Vitalia. Thank you guys for being here and thanks for letting me speak today. Um, as you've heard from many of my fellow constituents, there is communitywide opposition to the increase in ICE presence in Kerry or surrounding areas. I think we all saw the effects of increased presence in November when students who I and many others work with stayed home from school, family shelters in place, and anyone who could be racially pro profiled moved in fear and on edge in increased ICE presence makes us all less safe and in threaten people's basic rights to education, food, and health care. ICE creates an acute crisis wherever they go. We have heard from you all that you do not have power over whether they lease office space at Regency Parkway. But I think as you can see that has just decreased pe our confidence in you as leaders who can create effective and creative solutions in times of crisis. This is not an issue that can slip under the rug or fall by the wayside. It's a direct threat to so many people in the communities that you aim to serve. Um, town councils across the country have passed moratoriums on leases to private spaces to ICE offices or

detention centers. One was just passed in Seattle and another was passed in Spokane and in other towns across the country where leaders are using every single tool they have to prevent their communities from living in fear. You also have the more than the power to pass moratoriums. You have resources and connections as leaders in the community to contact building owners and clarify the leasing information for a community that is worried and scared. This is the time to act proactively, not wait for information to come out and then take action. The everyday people around me, working nineto-fives, working in food service, working as teachers or as housekeepers or healthcare workers, they are constantly coming up with creative ways to protect their neighbors. They are doing whatever it ca takes to make sure people can get to school or get groceries or get medication. All of this as everyday people living everyday lives. I urge you all to get creative and think about how you can respond in this time of crisis as people with power and resources. Thank you.

Our last registered speaker is Marilyn L.

Excuse me. Um, this is our last registered speaker and then we'll open the floor up.

Okay. You'll be next.

Which mic is it?

This one right here.

To your left. Thank you.

I understand you've heard a lot of us already throughout the night. Um, but I'm here speaking about the same thing. My name is Marilyn Mandola Lakuna de la Cruz and I am not your constituent. I live in Greensboro, North Carolina where our community also recently faced the threat of an ICE detention center. I'm here tonight because a possible detention center isn't just a Kerry problem or a Greensboro problem. It's a North Carolina problem. And let's be honest about what that system produces. Detention centers where people beg for medical care and are ignored. facilities where 911 calls are made for suicide attempts and medical emergencies and

self-inflicted injuries, places where human beings are being treated as disposable. Greensbur's response when our community came and spoke up was adding zoning restrictions and creating more hurdles to make it harder for the facilities like this to move forward. That's a good first step, but just like we told our own city leaders, zoning restrictions alone is not enough. The United States is experiencing one of the deadliest periods in immigration detention in more than two decades. In 2025 alone, at least 32 people died in ICE detention centers that we know of. And that's just what we know. In the first three months, we have 11 deaths that have been reported. And those don't include deaths like Ruben Ray Martinez, Keith Porter, Renee Good, and Alex Prey. Those normal those numbers don't even begin to reflect the many people who are being tortured and have near-death experiences every single day inside of these facilities. Over and over again, the same pattern appears. People beg for help and medical attention. And the help never comes. It won't come. Emanuel Damas, a 56-year-old Haitian asylum seeker, recently died after a tooth infection that reportedly began as an untreated tooth pain while he was in deta while he was detained. Just think about that. A man died from an infection that started from a tooth pain. And let me add, he was here legally. So none of that was deserved. His family still doesn't even have real answers about what happened to him. And he's just one of thousands. This is the system that you're being asked to expand. Across this country, more than 73,000 people are currently being held in immigration detention centers, and that's more than 200 facilities. They lied and said that we are all rapists, murders, and living off of the government. But only 73% 73% of the people detained have no criminal records and are not even eligible for any type of government assistance. Our people were detained for minor violations such as driving without a license or missing a court date out of fear for their life. For immigrant families, this reality changes how you live your entire life. For you, driving

to work, your only concern might be getting there on time. For us, this means driving to work and wondering if a broken tail light will separate me from my child. And just to close, this is a North Carolina problem. This is not just a carry problem. I drove all the way here from Greensboro because we're facing the same thing. And a threat from immigration is a threat to us all. Because if you come for one of us, you come for all of us. And I'm going to tell you right now that whenever you guys don't speak up, we will show up. Thank you,

ma'am. I'm sorry that you got skipped. That was unintentional. Please. [snorts] I have copy of paperwork for each of you. The mayor's is on top. Some of Because some of it is incomplete, but yours is complete. Mayor, thank you so much for taking the extra time for me um when you weren't expecting it.

Could you give us your name, please? Oh, I'm so sorry.

You're good.

Mary Stevens.

Thank you.

And I'm a resident here of of Kerry.

So, um, considering Well, I'm on a totally different subject. Um, and I've gotten quite an education so far. The woman who just spoke talked about being separated from your child. And, um, this is my concern at the moment. Only I'm bringing things closer to home. Instead of talking about ICE, I'm talking about the local police department. Okay. The dem the documents I've submitted are have all the details that I will not fit into three minutes. Um so on April 15, 2023, we're talking about two and a half years ago. And I was here on um August 2023 and did not get to speak because I was headed off at the pass by the police chief Salt who was so kind and wonderful and I thought he was going to take care of it and deal with it. Okay. But on April 15th, 2023,

the Kerry police came to my home responding to a swatting call saying that there had been a kidnapping. About 15 police vehicles arrived in front of my home and 20, 30, 35 police surrounding my home, violating my Fourth Amendment right, police entered my home illegally with no warrant and battered me, wrenching my arm behind my back and dropping me to the floor. I'm a protected class, elderly, disabled, dependent on a walker or cane. And as I was at the time, I'm 75 years old. I was 72 when this happened. At the time it also I was pending a hip replacement surgery. The police told me I had two choices. Stay in my house and be arrested or step outside and be detained. I was detained from approximately 11:00 p.m. until approximately 500 a.m. without access to my pain medication. My son and my grandson had been in my home playing with Legos. They called a SWAT team that arrived as I'm watching from across the street in a in a police car. The SWAT team came in. I could see them through my bedroom window because the blinds were open. It was at night and the light was on and they ransacked my home. It had rained the day before. There was mud everywhere. I had to throw out three three rugs. And when I finally was able to come back into my home at 5:00 the next morning, I could not even get to my bed. Everything was thrown on top of my bed. My whole home was disheveled. So, okay. But when the SWAT team came in, they took my two-year-old grandson out of my son's arms while my grandson was screaming for daddy. Okay. Why? Because of a swatting call. The mother of the child called the police figning hysteria, saying, "Help rescue my baby." The dispatcher failed to ask two questions. Number one, do you know who took the child? Miss Stevens.

And

I'm so sorry I have to interrupt you.

Oh, you do?

Yes, ma'am.

Why?

There's a threeminut time limit.

Oh my god. Okay. Well, they took

We have We have your document. I very much appreciate that.

Okay. Can I just make a closing sentence?

Yes.

I haven't seen my grandson in three years. They took him away. My son is in such a state of depression. We don't know where my grandson is. A year ago, we got a phone call saying he was dead. Okay. The police took my grandson.

Thank you, Miss Stevens.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize it was three minutes.

I'm so sorry.

You're You're fine.

I'm suffering from post-traumatic stress and I'm and thank you for listening.

Yes, ma'am.

That concludes public speaks out. I want to thank everyone in the audience for attending and especially for abiding by the rules of public speaks out. Uh we very much appreciate that. If you did not get an opportunity to speak and would like to leave information with us, the clerk can definitely take that information. Of course, you could send it to us as well and we have a council meeting coming up in two weeks.

Yes. And you're welcome to um

I'm sorry I I can't have a conversation with

he's on the he's on the but it's not a public discussion.

So we will have public speaks out in another two weeks. Um if if this is the applicant maybe if the council is okay when we get to that item

it's not

not the applicant.

Yeah. Okay. Um, so thank you again and uh if you want to speak in within uh to the council, it'll be two weeks from now. So, thank you. The next item on the agenda is the consent agenda. That's item four. For the benefit of people watching our meeting uh on TV, we take a moment to review the consent agenda

items. One vote approves all of these items on the consent agenda. We have recognized and appropriate reimbursement funding for the wireless carriers colllocated on the Harrison Avenue elevated water tank. Consideration of rightaway closing West Chattam Street. Consideration of rightaway closing Jones Franklin Road full-time FD clerk office assistant town clerk and adjustment to the adopted meeting schedule. Would council members like any of these items pull for discussion? If not, I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. So moved. Second.

There's a motion and a second.

Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously.

We have no public hearings this evening. So we'll move to discussion items. That's item 6.1, proposed speed limit reduction. Transportation director Cassie Schumacher Georgopoulos will present this item and council may take action. Miss Schumacher Georgopoulos. Good evening, mayor and council members. I'm here tonight to present a propose a proposal to reduce speed limits on three Kerryowned streets. Before I discuss the specific reductions, I'll explain why this is a key part of K's vision zero initiative, how these recommendations are developed through a collaborative review process with transportation, police, and other de other other departments. Then we'll re we'll review the three proposed reductions, and I'll finish with a schedule for implementation. The council's adoption of vision zero last April committed our community to prioritizing traffic safety for vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and bicyclists over prioritizing vehicular level of service. Vision Zero's number one priority promotes lower driving speeds because even a 5 mile per hour reduction can notably improve crash survivability for pedestrians and bicyclists. We also recognize that not every speed limit

should be reduced due to roadway design, classification, and the impact on police service such as um constant enforcement. Speed limit reviews are usually in response to residents requests are initiated by citizen by staff, sorry. Police and transportation staff receive several requests each year, most often for reductions on North Carolina Department of Transportation streets or requests for speed limits below 25 miles per hour. Requests are usually submitted through 311 cases or through a traffic calming request. And residents you typically express concerns about speeding, pedestrian and bicycle safety, and maintaining their their neighborhood character. Speed limit reviews are conducted by a multi-dep departmental team that includes neighborhood services, police, public works, and transportation. The review process itself looks at several months worth of existing traffic speeds, volume data, crash history, roadway characteristics like the type of street, the number of lanes, and whether there are any existing traffic calming devices. And then also whether the reduction is consistent with the neighborhood character. These collaborative reviews help staff assess if a lower speed limit can be implemented without impacting levels of service. In many cases, the existing speed is appropriate and lowering it would require ongoing police intervention or costly changes to the road design. The reductions proposed tonight all came through traffic calming, the traffic calming program with residents specifically requesting lower speed limits in their communities. The three proposed reductions include a portion of Green Hope School Road west of Green Level Church Road, Cozy Oaks Avenue. For both of these streets, we propose reducing the speed limit from 35 miles per hour to the standard residential speed of 25 miles hour and Lockmir Drive

with a reduction from 35 miles per hour to 30 to 30 miles hour. Each of these reductions went through the collaborative re review process and in all three cases the traffic data shows that the existing vehicle speeds are within a range that aligns with the proposed reduced speed limits and will have limited impacts on police levels of service. Existing traffic traffic calming devices such as landscape medians are present to encourage the lower speeds and community walkability and access needs support a lower posted speed limit to encourage residents to choose different modes of travel. If council adopts the speed limit reductions tonight, the next steps will be to update the traffic the traffic schedule for on car's website. Steph will continue to socialize the change with the communities before modify before modifying the speed limit signs. This spring, initial monitoring and education will take place throughout the summer. And following implementation of the reduced speeds, staff will monitor the subject corridors, collect additional speed data, and continue to evaluate the impact of the lower speed limit. Tonight's staffer recommends that council adopt the attached amendments to traffic schedule 4 speed limits to reduce the posted speed limits on Lochner Drive, Cozy Oak Avenue, and the portion of Green Hope School Road west of Green Level Church Road. Thank you. And I'm available for questions.

Thank you. Um before I turn it over, I I want to thank staff for moving forward with vision zero. I really hope to see an impact in my lifetime. I I think it's a lofty goal, but moving forward is the right thing to do and uh I think reducing speeds, you're right on there. So, I would love at least to see in the future that all these roads we've reduced speeds on have no fatalities and that would that would be a first step. So, thank you.

Thank you.

I just have a couple of questions. Sure. Do you have a plan or what type of implementation methods will be used to

really ensure that people are following because we I I've seen some really great methods like on the walnut uh street road diet. I mean those types of feedback loops have really slow traffic down but not everywhere uh do we see that sort of compliance with the changed in um speed limits. So staff evaluated these the three corridors and determined them to be appropriate for speed limit reductions due to drivers already primarily driving within within the appropriate range of speed. So that there's not an excessive it's not excessive rates of speed there today beyond what their recommendation is.

So they're already driving at these lower speed limits because of the road maintenance, the medians, that sort of thing.

Yes. Yes. So, no, there's no additional um costs, capital costs. That's where I was going to get to to make these to make these roadway changes. It'll be replacing some signs and then some some staff costs with um police enforcement uh to for some initial education, but not a long-term need for police presence to continue to patrol those locations. So, I'm I'm glad about that because as the vision zero champion that brought it to to council, um I would have never expected that there were already opportunities for us to lower the speed limit where people are already driving slower. So, that's really exciting. Thank you.

Ask for [clears throat] further clarification on that using Lockmeir Drive as an example. Lockmeir Drive when you turn onto that it's quite easy to be speeding. It's just a nice straight sort of treelined road. Not that I'm trying to zip around, but I I think I remember I was going to a friend lives there. If I remember correctly, my experience on that road is typically you got to hit the brakes because somebody's turning or you got to hit the brakes because somebody's crossing the street. The road is very speedable,

but there's a lot going on, so you have to slow down. Is that is that one of the the sort of criteria criteras you're looking for for places where [clears throat] reducing the speed limit so people aren't jamming on their brakes is going to further the vision zero goal because what what happens when that person who shouldn't have been going as fast as they were doesn't see somebody crossing the street. But that's that's where like the street character plays into to quite a bit of that where there's a lot of when citizens in the locker community reached out. There's a lot of pedestrian walk pedestrian activity in that area. So there was concerns about making it making it having a lower speed to make it safer for bicyclists and pedestrians in that corridor. Um also um even even reducing it from 35 to 30 was in a range of compliance where there would be some initial police presence on especially that that straightaway strip on the eastern side of Lochmir

as it gets more curve linear you see a lot more compliance in that within range on where the street is more curve linear. Um, so that that was the one item that staff did note that there would probably be additional education needs on that portion of Black Mirror because of the straightaway because and that's where you get into the design of the road.

Yeah. Encou encouraging faster behavior.

Okay. Thank you. I was just sort of

and Cassie I want to point out the Coyio Avenue. I know Russ and I spoke about this last year and you know we kind of looked you in. This is uh this road is very interesting because it it really you know runs through a neighborhood within the neighborhood and um a resident actually raised this to me that they try to you know um uh get this change but then like with vision zero now we are able to make these kind of changes based on the like special assessments of these roads within the neighborhood and I appreciate it because this is going to help us kind of set the

tone soon. Um like Mayor Bro Tam Bush, I'm also particularly um and we don't have to do it right now, but you know um I would like to also uh understand how are we going to enforce it? Um enforcement like I know police presence probably initially could help but then you know are we going to send communication out to residents or how does how will the process work?

We will send communication out to those who have engaged so far through the the process. We'll also put signs out letting people know that the that the change is coming. So, we'll do um posts to to let people know. I think in Cozy Oaks, we had over 40 residents reach out requesting the lower speed limit. So, we have a good base of of that we can reach out to and we'll and we'll post notices before this the speed limits are actually changed.

Wonderful. Thank you. I would uh also love to comment on um council member Johnson uh the lock mere drive because I I drive there a lot especially during the traffic hours and uh US1 is in a congestion and people not living carry cutting through uh driving on lomir and they are in a hurry to go home so sometimes all go to work so the the education might within our Kerry uh community, but the people who live outside of Kerry, how can they know that there's

Well, we we'll post um small or signs in the neighborhood along the street letting them know that a traffic um or a speed limit reduction is coming. So, they should they should be able to see that as they're speeding. Hopefully, as they're speeding through, they can see those. [laughter]

It's in order to capture

I hope Chief uh South could help with that. [laughter] We're going to reinforce other residents living other towns can be aware of that.

This is not an unusual process. We did it on Kildair Farm Road when the state lowered the speed limit. We don't go immediately into enforcement. What we'll

do is exactly what uh Shakassie has said. We'll put the signage up. We'll we'll educate the community as the educational process. One of the last phases we do is we will go out there and do some enforcement. We don't start writing tickets. we start t stopping people and saying hey the speed limits change slow down and that type of thing. Uh and then at some point we'll make it very clear that ah the warnings are done. [laughter] Uh but u uh you know it'll be a very very open process.

I have a weird question. Are collector roads by definition 35 miles an hour?

They are. And these two of the three are collectors. Cozy Oaks and Green Level or Green Hope School Road are collector streets and then Lockmir Drive is a thoroughfare road.

Which does that mean that we should consider ordinance changes to reduce the speed of collector roads? Just if we're going to be doing this one at a time, is that something we should be looking at? Well, I was going to add it's probably more you're thinking of when you build a new one that would be the speed limit that it would be set at based on what it would be designed for as well,

right?

To a little bit of what the the design of the road um is looked at from a traffic engineering standpoint.

So, yes, one it would be to for the future and another might be as you determine them, as you look at them, we may need to make some changes. So, and is that something that staff would bring forward to us from a design perspective that from now on new collectors should be considered to be designed at 25 rather than 35?

Uh, you could I I guess you'd lean into engineering standards and principles because really you want a collector to be able to collect and distribute traffic

um probably at a higher speed and a little a little bit larger width which

would be a little less than a thoroughare. Sorry, I'm getting geeked out. you know, what have you learned through this that might inform future changes so that we don't have to come back and forth uh in the future and what changes what other roads I'm sure you'll be bringing more as you look at vision zero. Are we looking at that forward thinking option?

I do think traffic standards have evolved over time. Um, Cozy Oaks is is unique because there's a lot of driveways along on Cozy Oaks. It is connecting to Thoroughfares, which is why it was rated as a collector, just as Russ had mentioned. Um, where it's you really pulling people to those thoroughares. Um I think so today when you see zoning cases bring forward potential collector avenues um or collector roads we're looking for those to not have a lot of driveways on on them. Um so it's so it's kind of

today we wouldn't have designed it like that.

Yeah. So it's kind of getting the design right on the front end so that we're not having to go back and reduce. So, this is being addressed as part of the planning process and being incorporated in the

and you're seeing and hearing terms Cassie could speak to it, but complete streets, bike lanes, uh sometimes uh separated bike lanes, traffic calming, y'all even had conditions of traffic coming as zoning come in. So, I do think moving forward it's it the hardship is where you have old standards and old designs and maybe they don't meet what's new. But, as this goes, we can al also always look at lowering the speed limit that's there. It really has to do with um how the road is designed and how comfortable folks are driving that design. [snorts]

Yeah, because Cozy Oaks is not an old road. It's I mean 20 years old maybe. I mean so you're saying that things have changed in the last 10. Okay. Y All right. I was thinking it was like lock mirror's more than 30 years old. I can

get that one but some of the others are relatively new. So, I would have I was wondering if it was a um newer design like in the last five years we've figured some things out. Okay. Thank educational. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I know residents reached out for these three roads and requested this. Do we have other roads that we're evaluating that residents have reached out about? We we receive a lot of requests um and a lot of them are for the North Carolina Department of Transportation roads and so we do direct them to North Carolina Department of Transportation because they'll they are the ones who are responsible for the speed limits. Um even we make requests to them for lower speed limits. Um otherwise when and then residents also ask for speed limits that are lower than 25. In our town ordinances, residential streets have a speed limit of 25. Um there these three have been reviewed over um over the period of a year or a couple of years. We don't get a lot of them that ultimately justify bringing them forward to do a speed limit reduction. But when we do receive those requests, police goes go out and and monitor. We set up cameras and and take traffic counts as well as look at vehicle speed. Other questions? Are we ready for a motion?

Okay.

U make a motion to adopt the amendments to the traffic schedule 14 speed limits to reduce the posted speed limits on Lockmeir Drive, Cozy Oak Avenue, and portion of Green Hope School Road of Green Level Church Road. I'd second that

motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Cassie.

Thank you. All right, we're now to discussion item 5.2. It's 22RE20 Alston Commons PDP. Planning Manager A Pucket will give a report. Then we'll hear our planning board's recommendation

and council may take action. Miss Puppet.

Thank you and good evening council. This is a request to reszone approximately 22.74 acres at NC55 highway and Petty Farm Road. You held a public hearing for this request in April of last year. Typically for final decision on a reasonzoning, we keep our presentation brief, but as this is a complex request and as we have new council members since that case was initially presented, I want to take some time this evening to provide a more cohesive overview. The site is located on the east side of NC55 with frontage on both sides of Petty Farm Road. The recently constructed Noval Kerry apartment development is located to the north and Austin town center is across NC55 to the west and a town of Kerry water tower is located directly south of the site. The site is currently zoned office research and development or OD and is also within the mixeduse overlay district as well as the Austin activity center which allows for a variety of uses today. and the applicant proposes to reszone the site to mixeduse district or MXD with a preliminary development plan or PDP and the mixeduse overlay would remain. The proposed preliminary development plan shown here is divided into five pods. Pod one is a commercial pod which may be developed with singlestory commercial uses and surface parking. This is the only pod where a car wash is permitted. Pods two and three are mixeduse pods which may include commercial, office, and residential uses. Buildings may be between three and seven stories in height, and at least 75% of parking will be in structured parking facilities. At least 7,500 square feet of commercial uses will be vertically integrated into buildings in each of these pods. Pod four includes only residential uses and may also be 3 to seventory buildings and will include at least 75% structured

parking. And finally, pod five is an office pod. Commercial uses are also permitted on this pod. Buildings will again be between three and seven stories and at least half of the parking will be in structures. The maximum building height in this pod was reduced from the 10 stories that were proposed at the time of the public hearing. The proposed uses and intensities for the site include a maximum of 625 residential units and these could consist of multif family units and/or life care community units, a maximum 30,000 foot car wash and a minimum of 15,000 and maximum of 25,000 square feet of commercial uses other than that car wash. Those uses could include things such as banks, bars, restaurants, and retail stores among others. And finally, a minimum of 50,000 and a maximum of 200,000 square feet of office uses. The applicant has also provided several development standards that would apply specifically to a car wash use on pod one. These were [clears throat] added after the public hearing and these include fully enclosing all equipment including vacuums in the building, limiting the drive-through lanes through the building to only one drive aisle, including eight solar panels on the roof, designing building facades with 85% masonry material, which exceeds Car's community appearance manual requirement of 75% and phasing the car wash to ensure construction has begun elsewhere on site at the time of its completion. I'll talk more about that in a moment. The applicant has offered to provide streetside trail along all site frontages on NC55 highway, McCurman Parkway, and the short site frontage on Good Hope Church Road. This does exceed the minimum LDO requirement as Car's long-range plan shows streetside trail along only a portion of the NC55 frontage. In addition, transportation improvements are proposed at all seven site access points and the site will be subject to right-of-way dedication and

improvements along all frontages as applicable. This includes construction of the portion of the Mcrimman Parkway extension through their site. We anticipate the railroad crossing to be grade separated in the future. So details regarding the full extent of the road construction to be completed with this project would have to be reviewed at time of development plan. and we anticipate Mcrimman Parkway to stub to the potential future bridge. The preliminary development plan offers streetscapes and buffers that are mostly consistent with minimum LDO requirements and also commits to screening of the parking decks via wrapping or partially wrapping them with buildings in pods 2, three, and four and screening them with green walls or artwork in pod five. At least 5% of the units will be affordable at 80% of the area median income or AMI for a period of 30 years and at least 5% of the units will be smaller units with a maximum of 750 square ft. This condition could overlap with the affordable housing condition. There will be at least six electric vehicle charging stations accommodating two spaces each in pods two through five or a total of 48 spaces. Eight foot wide sidewalk will be provided along all internal streets and travelways. And this is an increase to the LDO minimum requirement of five feet. And over 20,000 square feet of community gathering space will be distributed across all pods with at least 500 square feet in pod one and at least 5,000 square feet in all four others. The PDP does include a number of proposed modifications, including the ability to clear and grade vegetation in all streetscapes, a reduced perimeter buffer along the residential pods border with the railroad, but only if parking is located between the multif family units and the railroad. The LDO required 50-foot residential streetscape along the Krimman Parkway is reduced to 30 feet in width.

Internal streetscapes are proposed to be reduced from the standard 15 foot wide required for non-residential uses to 8 feet and these could be largely hardscaped streetscapes with a reduced planting rate. Removal of one champion tree of the two surveyed on site with replacement inches to be provided per the LDO and one tree will be preserved. An allowance for decorative retaining walls around storm water control measures to be 10 feet tall. That's an increase to the LDO 6 foot height limit, but that 10-ft height limit would only apply where not visible from public streets or greenways. And some modifications are proposed to the LDO requirement for a complete street network through the site. The planning and zoning board reviewed this request in July of 2025. Board members had generally positive comments regarding the mix of uses and the commitment to structured parking. They did have some questions and concerns about the feasibility of office at this scale. Some members shared comments regarding the importance of the appearance or screening of the car wash and some asked about the proximity of other closest car washes, noting that there might be a need here. Some members noted the project seemed to demonstrate consistency with a number of plan policies, but not all. Ultimately, the board found the request consistent with the imaginary community plan by a vote of 8 to1 with the one one vote for inconsistency, noting that the proposal was only partially consistent with plan policies and that it was important that the request be discussed when it returned to council given the complexity of the request. Some of you may recall this request was initially scheduled for a final decision in September of last year, but the applicant requested it be removed from the agenda in order to add a condition regarding phasing of the development. The item was subsequently scheduled for an October meeting, but was removed again at the applicant's request. Since that time, the applicant has reduced the maximum height on pod 5, the office pod,

from a maximum of 10 stories down to seven. And the applicant has added a condition that no certificate of occupancy will be requested for pod one, the car wash pod, prior to construction commencing on pod two, which is one of the mixeduse pods. While the condition does allow a car wash to be the first use constructed on site and does not dictate a construction timeline or ensure the timing of any other building on the site beyond that first building on pod 2, it would ensure that the car wash cannot be completed and occupied unless vertical construction, which would mean at least directing columns, has begun on one other building subject to an approved development plan. A full analysis of the case against the imaginary community plan was provided in your staff report. So I'll hit the highlights here. Generally staff found the proposal meets a number of live, shop and engage policies and it partially meets some shape work and move policies although the full details of transitions and employment oriented uses are not fully known. The proposal also offers a number of commitments consistent with the vision for destination centers. Those policies are most directly addressed by pods two, three, and four. On their own, these central pods are aligned with destination center guidance. Pod 5 is also consistent in its proposal of complimentary office uses and a commitment to structured parking. Although the lack of detail makes it difficult to deem fully consistent with plan guidance. The absence of phasing for this pod also creates uncertainty about when or if office uses will be developed. And finally, pod one on its own is inconsistent with the destination center due to the proposed use and form and its vehicular oriented nature. Overall, the proposal does not fully address all applicable plan policies, but does largely offer positive commitments in line with plan guidance and therefore on balance staff recommends approval of the request. This concludes my presentation and I'm

happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Miss Pocket. I'd open it up to council members for questions or comments. Your district.

Okay, I have prepared some comments and let me just pull that up. Sorry, it's a long list. I want to start by saying that I appreciate the applicants investment and interest in doing business in Kerry. We welcome businesses that want to grow and succeed in our community. My concern is not with the business itself like but what you said um it's whether this is the right location for this business. This corridor is already experiencing significant traffic pressure and uses that generate uh frequent short trips like car washes can create operational challenges particularly related to vehicle queuing and turning movements. In addition, this parcel sits in a corridor where we should be encouraging higher intensity commercial activity that generates jobs and contributes to the long-term economic vitality of the area. That's just my view. For those reasons, I believe that um I cannot support this project. I do feel that you know I had a very good conversation with the applicant and um I did share with them that their proposal for uh mixed use was very very thoughtful, very good. They had structured parking and you know they addressed some of the concerns very proactively. I appreciate them that they took the feedback um about part five which was going to be 10 story earlier but then they reduced it to um up to seven story. So I appreciate that but unfortunately at this time I feel like I cannot support this project because it's just not it's not right place for this.

Other thoughts comments?

I have some comments. Um, so I I want to

be truly candid that a large singlestory car wash in a destination center is not what our long range plans um imagine as the ideal outcome for this area. Um, and our policy language about destination centers clearly prefers vertically mixeduse walkable urban development with buildings framing the street and minimizing um autooriented uses. And and at first glance, this car wash felt like a step away from the vision. I mean, we've actually seen a car wash being proposed here before and it was vehemently turned down and failed and mostly because it was just the car wash. And I remember sitting here at this table talking about it that it wasn't that it was just the car wash. It was our worry, our collective worry that the rest of the destination center would somehow fall away and all that you'd have is a car wash. And no one would come and say, "Yeah, I want to build an apartment building right behind that car wash. That's what I want to do." Or I want to build a mixeduse center right behind that car wash. So at that time what I remember and hopefully my memory is clear, we all collectively said, "Yeah, car wash all by itself is not what we want here." But I will say that what ultimately moves me towards supporting this as a compromise is the fact that it's a full package. It's not just the car wash in isolation as it was before, but with this resoning, we secure our vision of the destination center of density, of walkable, of affordable housing with um 5% at 80% of AMI for 30 years. the um applicant's commitment to not just build the car wash, but to actually commit to starting the construction of the rest of it, which again gets me over the hump of

worrying about it being just the car wash. It's also in an economic economically vital area where young professionals are looking to move to an area that's really close to the interconnection of highway interchanges and and also a lot of people are wanting to live in more um diverse mixeduse neighborhoods that have more than just apartments. So it's we get we get everything we normally want at this table. We get solar. We get probably a very carry car wash. I've never seen a car wash that's totally enclosed. Um, we get structured parking, vertically mixed buildings at the core of the site and a connected network and wider sidewalks that are really close to the destination center. Um, so on the car wash itself, which is really my angst, um, it's not an unconstrained auto use. It no longer has the things that we're worried about, which are auto um pumps. Um it's limited to a single pod. It's capped in size. It's close to the highway, so people don't actually have to go through a neighborhood or go up and down Maynard to get to the car wash. I mean, my guess is that everybody at this table has used a car wash before. Um it's got high quality ma masonry. I'm sounding unfortunately like I really really love it, but I'm trying to explain the things I like about the compromise because it's also environmentally better to use a car wash that has recycled water than washing the car in your front yard. Um, and and being right on a h a highway corridor where autooriented use is what we tend to want, it's really contextually logical for it to be there. So, I kind of wanted the public to hear both things that it's not my purest

expression of a plan and I share the discomfort around it. Um, at the same time, I weigh the tradeoffs associated. So I see the resoning as the best available balance here of the outcomes on the site. I am also aware that if this doesn't pass, we are likely to see significantly more density and a followup um applicant that may not have the walkable infrastructure, the um parking structured parking in it. um we we may not get something as good as it is. And even with the reduction in the height, the building is still going to be lower than the water tower next to it. Right? The 178 water tower is like 10 to 12 stories. So the water tower is actually taller, but it's less dense when it's seven feet. So for me, the combination is enough. It's like I if Jack were here, he'd probably call it the 4951. Um I support it. It's imperfect, but I think it's a reasonable compromise for me that could move this overall project forward.

So, you you you analyze a lot of things I analyze. I I want to follow up on yours. Um I think if we saw pods two, three, and four um in the first phase, now you've got my attention, but only seeing pod two um is a little disappointing. And I agree what your initial statement was that pod one didn't really fit in a destination center. So now what I'm looking at is pod one and pod two with no guarantees of anything else which is disappointing. And then the the affordable housing which we have to address as a council 80% of AMI means over $100,000 a year doesn't touch firemen, policemen, teachers, anybody.

Um so I I disregard that. I'm sorry, but that just doesn't do anything for me. So, I I the person that used to sit to my left and my right. Um Jennifer used to say wait for great and that's kind of where I am on this one. I don't think this is great. I do understand the the increase intensity that we're liable to get in the next proposal. Uh, but I think I would rather take my chances uh rather than not have the guarantee of pods two, three, and four. Um,

so you would have just so I understand you if you had the guarantees of

two, three, and four. I would I would think about

Oh, okay. I was just trying to figure out where you are.

I still don't think it fits.

Uh, but you could you could try to convince me.

Well, two is probably the same size as three and four combined, just the biggest one. So,

I think

I think high density is good in this area, right? because this is the destination center and that we should have something that complements all Yards which is like one mile down.

The only challenge is with um the car wash, it's a business that's only going to depend on car wash. So the trips that they're going to generate on 55, which is already a very crowded block on that side, it's going to get more uh crowded. I think it'll be more just having been to a lot of car washes and so not any that sound as nice as this. And by the way, I'm not advocating. I just what I my thought process was when you go you're not going to be going into the development. You're kind of doing a pass through kind of like when you get gas, you know, you slide in right off the highway, you get your car clean and you slide off. I don't really think I I don't know. I just don't think it's going to pull as much. If you look at the traffic study, um, you know, the car wash pulls for itself what a, you know, one of one of the pods of multifamily.

So, yes, does it pull more traffic? It it does pull traffic, but it also pulls traffic without people having to go in and out.

So, I just want to highlight one more thing to everyone. The traffic study was done in May 20 2022 and with the assumption that we will expand Carpenter Fire Station Road to six lanes and um the car wash um is assumed to be 8,400 square ft as per the report that's attached to this application. It's I it's also not a car wash in the traffic study. It's a 12 pump gas station.

Yes. Do you want me to speak to that? Um, I think this may have come up the last time I was here. So, yes, when this was initially scoped was going to be a smaller car wash with fuel pumps. That design evolved as the case moved forward. Our transportation staff did look at it and they assessed that the 30,000 square foot car wash based on an admittedly small pool of data that we have available to us would not generate more trips than that smaller car wash with the 12 fuel pumps that was originally scoped.

So you feel confident that that this model um is aligned with what's being presented the shift from to the larger car wash. We had enough to make us feel comfortable that what is currently proposed would not generate more trips than what was initially scoped for. It may still generate a lot, but it it would still be under the 12 fuel under what we

other comments, thoughts.

I'd like to start with a question.

Okay.

Under this resoning, would a storage facility be an allowed use?

I will double check. I do not believe that that that is um on the list of permitted uses.

It it is not. So um your commercial uses that would be allowed would be things like banks, bars, restaurants, indoor

recreation facility, ABC store, postal center, personal service, retail.

Thank you for asking that.

I'm just saying,

no, it's a great question. I know we have many onor

enough already with the storage [laughter] spaces in that area. Um, I I have no problem with the car wash, especially a very cary car wash. And I of course always explain myself in the form of anecdote, so I'll do that again here. Um, my partner owns the best Irish pub in the whole wide world. I might mention that on occasion. It is shares a parking lot with bunkies. So, uh, you know, go back 25 years and I was able I couldn't afford it then, but let's go back 15 or 20 years maybe. I could drop my car at Bunkies, get it washed and go and enjoy lunch or dinner or, you know, after work drinks, you know, at the pub. Bunkies is so busy all the time now that that's, you know, I tried that a couple of times several years ago and just couldn't do it. I do believe there's demand for car washes. If this project had a large gas station in it, I would be very against it. Um, so I'm just gonna say a very carried car wash in this location. First of all, I I think there's need for it. Second of all, great way to get me into a destination center. I find another, you know, anecdotal example, high-speed car chargers is another great way to get me to patronize a business. If I could go wash my car and charge it, I'm going to wander business to business much like I do the Kildair um plaza behind IHOP, right? I go in there, I plug in my car, and the next thing I know, I've spent $200. That's even before getting all the way down to Trader Joe's. Um I do believe there is a lot of um you know there's habits that people um kind of have when it comes to stopping and kind of you know getting stuff done, doing some errands, getting some you know and convenience is a huge

factor that for that reason I think a destination center with a car wash is actually quite a good idea. Just my opinion. Um, I don't wash my car frequently, but you know, it's I probably should um because it looks terrible. So, I um I don't have a problem with the the car wash. Um but I what I do like um there's a meaningful amount of structured parking included in this project. Um I really strongly prefer to see uh less surface parking wherever possible. Um, of course the affordable housing that's included. I would like to see a lower AMI. Of course I would. I do personally, one council member speaking, do believe that commitments to smaller footprint housing is a long-term commitment to what is going to be naturally more affordable housing in most, not all cases. Um, and the phasing commitment, I just want to thank the applicant for that. I know um you probably could have just counted the votes to see if you could still get it, you know, approved without that phasing commitment. I know that was challenging. So for I appreciate that being included there and you know, so that's the these are the primary reasons why um I'm in support of this. I'm I'm curious to see what my other colleagues think.

This is one of the projects that wasn't an easy answer for me. There are several things that I appreciate about it. The structured parking, sidewalks, streetside trails along all the frontages, of course, the affordable housing provisions, the 5% smaller unit, 5% smaller units. Um, the next I have a question. I I just want it defined for the public. Um, what is mixed use? So that would typically be the expectation that there's residential and non-residential uses mixed in a building.

So because when when it's listed, it's

listed as residential, office, and um commercial. I was like, what's the word?

Um that doesn't mean it could be commercial and office to be mixed use. Does residential have to be included for it to be mixed use? We've typically read that as being residential and commercial included and I believe that is the applicant's intent. That large number of multif family units clearly is you know something that's a major part of this project. So I don't think we as staff have major concerns with ensuring that we get the residential with the ground floor commercial or office or it could be both.

I wish I didn't share your concerns. My concern is that when we are saying max 625 multif family or life care units, there's no minimum. And we've talked about this in recent projects. I may not have even asked that question a year ago. Probably didn't. And I there's good reasons why I believe the applicant decided to put that phasing in. There were a lot of questions asked um I believe to bring it to that point. And I am very happy that it's it's now to get the certificate of occupancy. The next phase has to be started. I just don't see anything that gives me, let me rephrase it. I usually try to phrase it positively, but it gives me pause. I don't feel confident that even though there's 5% affordable housing at 80% AMI and 5% smaller units, what if there aren't any units? What if we end up with a car wash with more commercial office? It just it's a it's a point that just sticks with me. and looking at

and uh looking at like where they you know check off which policies were met in the Kerry community plan. Looking at the the live policies provide more housing choices. Provide housing options in new neighborhoods. Greatest variety of housing options and mixed use. There's another one that you know those are all checked but I'm like what if there aren't you housing units or you know there's no And I know there's no guarantee in other projects as well, but I keep going back to your original statement, um, Council Member Bush, was I would like it even more if in a destination center perhaps there was more vertical.

Council member Craig, just to make sure we've got everything clear on this, and Erin, you can tell me if I'm wrong. I'm looking at the PDP for pod two and pod three. Um the ground floor uses are residential, office or commercial, but the upper floors have to be residential and they have to have a minimum of three stories.

Great. Thank you. That is very helpful.

So that is effectively a minimum for residential.

So as I read it, there would have to be in pod two um there would have to be at least two floors of residential use.

Thank you, Lisa. I was flipping through my PDP looking for where that requirement was buried.

So there basically is a minimum

that yes, there will be some residential.

There'll be some residential of at least two floors.

That's very helpful. Thank you. Okay. So where were my other notes? Um I just noted in the in the shape policies that it is checked off that it focuses on the most intense use of encouraging mixed use in a development. And I and I was thinking like, is it does that really met? Is it the most intense use in a destination

center when it's a single story? So, that was a kind of a a pause point for me as well. And I will say the other is not a sticking point for me now because I have clarification. Thank you. So, so this is a pause point for me. And then the other one was I think I just combined two policies um together there. But I believe I also um just made a note after your comments that in the future it could be more dense and what if we didn't get an applicant, you know, wanting to put in the walkability and everything. We also have

structure parking. We also have the option of saying no then as well.

Oh, always always. That's right. Always. I mean, we one of the things that's interesting is we're talking about wanting density, but then we also asked at the same time the applicant to reduce the number of stories.

So, we have to align what we want as a council because on one hand we said, yeah, we want density, but then we also turned around and said, well, could you make it less stories? We can't be both.

We can definitely ask for more than one story. What's that? More than one story, right? like this is a one-story car garage versus is that what you're referring to?

No, I just meant overall in the entire um all the pods. Yeah. I mean, sure. I mean, we're talking with Wake County about building residential on top of schools.

I mean, sure, you could build you could build residential on top of a car wash. I mean, [snorts] would that change your mind?

I don't know if it would change I I don't know if I would be,

you know, I don't make pressure. I'd have to read about it now.

[laughter]

But certainly there's no reason,

right? You could always build, you know, a first floor car wash with residential above it. That could be Gary's style, maybe.

Other comments, questions. Motion.

Well, I'll throw it out there. I'll make

a motion that we uh move to adopt the following documents for a statement of consistency for 22 Austin yards PDP and a statement of consistency and the resoning ordinance 22 re20 right there's an update it's not re2 I apologize was there a mistype on there

is I'll second

there's a motion and a Second. Further discussion. All in favor of the motion. I think we have a split vote, so you got to raise your hand. All in favor of the motion, please raise your hand and say I.

I.

Those opposed.

No,

you didn't.

It's 52.

So, you didn't vote. So, that would be a yes.

I didn't vote, but continue.

If you vote, if you don't vote, you're a

That's Yeah. So, motion fails for three.

Okay. So, we have still taken no action. We can take no action or we can make a motion to deny. That's where we are now.

Well, may I um you would make a request and see if the applicant would be interested in us continuing or tableabling it

with that. Um unless

based on the feedback, that's generally what we've done in the past. Uh good evening, Mayor Council. Jason Baron with Morning Star Law Group here on behalf of the applicant. U appreciate the feedback and the uh the dialogue as always and we were uh listening uh with with baited ears if if that's a saying. Um we definitely would like the opportunity to continue the conversation rather than having the zoning case denied. There's no doubt about that. Uh we've been at this for a little over five years at this point. Um and would hate for the opportunity to continue to refine the plans in a way that's consistent with council expectation to

pass us by. And so with that, we would h be happy to take a tableabling of the case while we review this feedback and come back with alternatives. I did have a question though. It sounds to me that the biggest issue that the case has is the car wash. that if it was, you know, if it was kind of pods two through five that didn't include the car wash, this case is on steady footing. Um, it might even be a good case at that point. The car wash is is the sticking point. Is that kind of the feedback we're hearing?

That is correct. What it sounds like.

Yes. And to clarify for me, it's the one story.

Yep.

It's not specifically car wash.

Understood.

I mean, understand that it is a car wash.

Yep. I I would really recommend that you know um and I did share this feedback when we met um as well. I would I would really prefer that you know we have something front-facing like retail and maybe a smaller um car wash probably accommodated. That would that's something that I would prefer but you know I would like to hear from others as well.

Okay.

I I didn't comment earlier but um I've talked to council member u Benzel about the traffic but what we discussed is that it will affect the traffic but what what I heard today is there's no problem with the traffic

there is problem with the traffic

well we can get in that discussion another time having done traffic studies myself I can tell you that

it'll be a small percentage of what you see on 55 so

um I just wanted to clarify and make sure that I was we were hearing the right issue and the issue sounds like it is the the existence of the car wash, the one-story car wash.

Thank you, Mr. Fair. So, we have

we have added another option. So, so far we haven't taken action.

We we can deny. We tried to pass. We can we can table

what was the other one?

That's it. Continue or deny.

Continue or or um um t table is the same

thing or deny. The only thing before we make a motion to do that, the only thing I would ask is if we do make a motion to table when we get the study, if we can get it in time where the residents have a a chance to look at it and respond to it and have a chance to come to a council meeting and speak, not a public hearing, but at least public speaks out.

That's only fair.

Absolutely. Um, so if once this if we decide a table and the applicant had said, "Okay, here's what we're going to propose, then we have a meeting and then put it on another meeting and then we would have plenty of time to talk about that." That would be my recommendation. I'd also like to figure out if we need to change some of our public speaks out rules so that people who are here to speak about something that's on the agenda, right? Um that's on discussion so they they're not part of the public hearing that they should get an opportunity to speak. Um maybe we have some extra way for them to sign up because they didn't necessarily know that they had to sign up beforehand because I I think that that was that was a missed opportunity to hear. Mr. um to hear about Petty Road and to hear um normally the applicant will make a comment in public speaking

and I and we didn't get to hear from them.

I I would just want to take the opportunity before we potentially make another motion uh just to address my thinking. Um and uh you know we've talked about the car wash in particular that actually is not my major objection. I would just like to note this was my first vote and uh on a a development uh u you know a resoning proposal like this and so I I take that new responsibility very seriously and my objection is more aligned with the mayor's of uh this felt maybe almost good enough but not great.

Um, and so I would really like it, you know, I I expressed when uh I met with the applicant, there's there's some things to like here, but to meet the threshold for approval for me, I would have liked it to be a little greener. You know, to see reduced plantings and reduced buffers um of very minimal affordable h housing commitment were things that just kept me from being enthusiastic enough to support it. I just I think we still have more opportunity to make this better.

I have to say I'm going to say it out loud. This is the first time sitting at this council table that everybody did was um thought that 5% affordable housing was not enough. In my 14 years here, I've been fighting for 5% and I think the applicant heard that's not enough. And I want to thank my council colleagues for saying that. That really is that that means a lot.

It's the 80% that gets me.

It's both both.

Yeah.

But mostly the 80% because 80% doesn't do anything for me. So

I've been fighting for six 50 to um 80% 50 to 80% for a really long time. So thank you all for clearly sharing that.

Okay. Motion to approve or table. That's what I'm looking for.

I'll make a motion that we continue this resoning. Do we have to give a time certain?

Indefinitely.

Okay. Um motion that we continue resoning 22 RAC 20.

Second.

There's a motion and a second. In discussion, I would tell those in attendance that Aaron Pucket will have the latest information. She would be your liaison to any changes that come forward. So keep in touch with her and that way you'll know the latest and greatest when it happens

and email us

and or email us. Always email us. That's very helpful. Yep. Yep. So, we have a motion and a second to table indefinitely.

She said continue.

The continue. That's what I said.

Continue with no.

I said to continue. Yeah, just

I used the wrong terminology.

Yes.

I thought Lisa would come after me. All right. So, a motion and a second. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any oppose? Mot.

No. Motion carries six to one. So, thank you, Miss Pucket, and thanks everyone that was here for this hearing. And hopefully next time, uh, you'll have the opportunity to speak in public speaks out. Sign up early, please. And if you can't get in, send us an email. We'll find a way to get you guys in. Okay. Thank you. Uh, we need to go to close session and I would entertain a motion to do so. Pursuant to GS1 143 31811A135 and 6, I move that we hold a close session to consult with attorneys employed by and or retained by the town in order to preserve the attorney client privileged between the attorneys and the town and pre prevent the disclosure of information that's made privileged or confidential pursuant to the laws of the state, including NCGS 168A 168 or not considered a public record within the meaning of chapter 132 of general ederal statutes. She changed it again. Consider the qualifications, competence, performance, character, fitness, conditions of appointment, and and or conditions of initial employment of one or more individual public officers or employees, and instruct town staff concerning the position to be taken by or on behalf of the town in negotiating the price and other material terms of or a contract or proposed contract for the acquisition of real property.

There's a motion. Is there a second?

Second.

Second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. We're 1035.

Okay. Thanks everyone.

We're reconvening our council meeting. We've concluded our business. So I would entertain a motion to adjurnn.

So moved. Second.

Motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. I.

Any opposed? Motion carries and we are adjourned. Yay.

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