Regular Session

Mhm.

Welcome back. The board met in closed session. Um no action was taken. Staff was given guidance. And now we'll get to our regular Uh Where's my agenda? All right. Welcome everyone to our regular session for October 26, 2026. as I mentioned

earlier. Uh we were in closed session earlier, and now we are back at it. Um we will I will read the public charge, and then we'll do a land acknowledgement. Uh Commissioner Burton, would you be open to reading the land acknowledgement? Commissioner Valentine, the pledge. All right. So, I'll start with the public charge. The Board of Commissioners asks its members and residents to conduct themselves in a respectful, courteous manner, both with the board and fellow residents. At any time, should any member of the board or any resident fail to observe this public charge, the chair will ask the offending person to leave the meeting until that individual individual regains personal control. Should decorum fail to be restored, the chair will recess the meeting until such time that a genuine commitment to the public charge is observed. Commissioner Burton.

Land acknowledgement. As we convene for the Durham County Commissioners meeting, it's crucial to recognize the painful truth of history.

[clears throat]

We stand on the stolen ancestral lands of the Catawba, Eno, Occaneechi, Shakori, and Tuscarora peoples, whose deep connection to this land predates our arrival. We acknowledge with humility the unjust displacement and violence that occurred leading to the dispossession of indigenous peoples from their homelands. Their resilience in the face of such adversity is a testament to their strength and spirit. May we humbly honor the ancestors and elders of these nations, both past and present, by committing ourselves to fostering understanding, healing, and justice for all who inhabit this land. Let us walk forward together with open hearts, acknowledging the past and embracing a future guided by compassion, respect, and unity.

All right. Thank you, Commissioner Burton. Uh Commissioner Valentine.

Vice Chair Richardson.

I pledge allegiance

to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, thank you.

[clears throat]

Next item on our agenda are the is the agenda adjustments or agenda approval. Are there any adjustments to the agenda? Hearing none, I accept the motion to approve the agenda as presented.

So moved.

Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded we approve the agenda as um as presented. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, please use the same sign. It passes unanimously. The next item on our agenda are the announcements. Clerk Wallace.

Good evening, everyone. I will read the announcements published in tonight's agenda. Early voting for the 2026 statewide general election continues through Saturday, October 31st. Durham County voters can cast their ballot at any of the 10 early voting sites across Durham County. To access early voting information, including early voting locator and wait time dashboard, visit early voting page on the Durham County Board of Elections website d c o votes.com. Join Lincoln Community Health Center and Sisters Network as they host Celebrating Courage, Lincoln's Pink Brunch on Wednesday, October 28th from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. at 1301 Fayetteville Street. The event is free, however, registration is required. There is a link and it is available online. Durham County will illuminate uh several government buildings green from November

4th through the 11th in support of Operation Green Light for Veterans. The national initiative raises awareness of the challenges many veterans face and highlights the resources available to assist them and their families. Durham County Veteran Services also has a limited number of green bulbs available at 201 North Roxboro Street, Monday through Friday from 8:30 a.m. to 12:00 noon and 1:30 to 5:00 p.m. For more information, you could visit www.nacoc.org uh program Operation Green Light Veterans. Durham County Veteran Services invites the community to its 15th annual Veterans Day celebration. The celebration will take place on Tuesday, November 10th at 11:00 a.m. in the Durham County Human Services Building located at 414 East Main Street. The program will feature a live performance by the North Carolina National Guard 440th Army Band, a keynote address from Roshana Humphrey, director of the Durham County just Durham County Justice Services Department, and a POW/MIA presentation. The event is free and open to the public. You can register and there is a link on Eventbrite. You can also call 919-560-8387 or email veteranservices@dconc.gov for additional information. Durham County Government will close most offices on Wednesday, November 11th, 2026 in observance of the Veteran Day holiday. All offices will reopen with normal hours of operation on Thursday, November 12th. For updates and impacts on county services due to the holiday closure, you can visit the county website. Join Durham County Department of Public Health for a free diabetes and lung cancer wellness month health fair on Saturday, November 14th from 11:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. at the Holton Career and

Resource Center located at 401 North Driver Street. Everyone is welcome. There is no registration. For um questions, you can contact Yvonne Reza at 919-560-7223. Want to learn more about Bulls Academy and how life sciences can be a good fit for you? Join the next virtual info session on Wednesday, October 28th at 12:00 p.m. for more information and to receive an application. There is a link that you can access the live Zoom session. And lastly, the Durham County Department of Public Health is now accepting appointments for the updated Moderna Moderna COVID-19 vaccine for everyone 6 months and older. Vaccines are available by appointment with walk-ins accepted as clinic schedule and supplies allow. To schedule an appointment, you can call 919-560-7608. The immunization clinic is located on the first floor, clinic six, in the Durham County Human Services Building located at 414 East Main Street. There is a link for additional information. That concludes the announcements in tonight's agenda.

Thank you, Clerk Wallace. Are there any other announcements from our commissioners? All right, I'll go with Commissioner Burton first and then I'll come over here.

Thank you, Chair Lee. Um I just want to give a big shout out to um Carolyn Croucher at Kids Vote um and her team, also the folks at Book Harvest um on last Thursday. I was invited to read to the young people and talk about voting. Um read the book Show Up and Vote and it was really um an enjoyable experience to read to do the read-aloud and to talk about how do we engage our young people in civic literacy and the importance of voting. They had a booth set up where

young people could vote and um it was just really great great experience. So, I'm really glad that the Cooperative Extension, Durham County Government, we do this work to encourage um young people around voting, going with their parents to vote, and things like that. So, I just want to make sure I mentioned that. Thank you.

All righty. Um Commissioner Jacobs.

Thank you. Um I just wanted to share with our board and the public that I participated in the first um board meeting of the North Carolina Association of County Commissioners um not this past weekend, the weekend before in Craven County. And um I'm really excited to be serving on the board this year and representing Durham County. But also um the role that I will be playing on the board, which is uh helping to lead the presidential initiative of uh County Commissioner Allen Thomas. His initiative is called um Let me get the exact wording right. It's uh forward focus, charting the future of county social services. And it is really all about how we can work together. All 100 counties and partner with leadership at the state level to make sure that we are strengthening our social services and also addressing a lot of the gaps and the needs in funding for counties and working together for strategic solutions related to what we're all facing um in our communities. [clears throat] So, I'm I'm really honored and also excited to be a part of that effort. Um

and we also discussed at the meeting the um property tax working group, which our own Keith Lane has served on. And it's a commission that has been made up of county managers, county budget directors, uh county commissioners, um a lot of different expertise and uh has been um again trying to prepare for uh what might be coming with the uh different amendments and also just in general a lot of the challenges that we've already been having um in our state. So, um want to encourage everyone that early voting will continue uh until Saturday. Uh and for everyone to get out and vote early. And then of course election day will be coming up on November 3rd, but also to uh be aware of the uh amendments on the ballot that could have a very negative impact uh on our revenues here in Durham County and in the state. And also wanted to share that we had our first um I was able to attend the uh ribbon cutting for the sign at the Orange Factory Road uh Heritage Community last week. And I really I want to thank our staff for all the work that they did to make that possible uh working with members of the community and I I it was really heartwarming to see how many people came who are some of the surviving original um people who lived in that community and also their their family members and hear the stories of what it was like uh to live in a really was a very remote rural community where people um

I you know, really relied on each other and one of the surviving um one of the original descendants uh residents talked about how you know, they didn't have a whole lot and that at dinner time, they would just go from house to house and everybody would you know, share [snorts] their food and kids as a kid, you were eating in different people's homes and a lot of different stories were shared. So, I'm really glad that we will um be preserving the history of that community forever and encourage other communities to apply for the program. Thank you.

All right.

All right. Um just really quickly, I just want to shout out EK Powe's third grade uh third graders. I'm seeing heads been shaking. Have you guys all visited? Man, they did not hold back. At least when I was there, they didn't hold back. I was And here's the And here's the funny thing, there's a bunch of them that was that I drive in the morning on the school bus. They were on there and so obviously like, "Hey, hey, hey, you know, Mr. bus driver." That didn't make a difference. Cuz they were uh they were some hard-hitting questions there and I was sweating a little bit, but it was fun. I just want to shout out. That is That's really great participation. You know, learning about local government. Third grade. You know, we go to a lot of meetings here and there, but that's the best part of this job is being able to take the questions from the kids just like when we had the um What was the school again? Club Boulevard came here and was asking questions. They were asking those tough questions, too. I really appreciate that. I just want to shout out the National Council Society. I actually spoke at their 5K. The breast cancer 5K that started out in the bull um at the Durham Bulls stadium this uh

Saturday morning. It was an awesome sight. It It was great and um you know, to have a place for survivors and thrive They have these cowbells and I got me one and I told them I had, you know, so I've I've never been a part of anything like that. And so, and the funny thing is the 23rd October 20th So, this happened on the 24th. October 23rd was my 2-year anniversary of being cancer-free. So, it was like it made a really [clears throat] big difference for me. So, I just want to give them a shout-out. It was It was a really good event. So many people. Man. It was crazy. So many people sharing their stories and things. So, if you all ever get the opportunity, whether you know someone who has breast cancer or any type of cancer, those are really those are really nice events. Really good families are going, representing people who are going through or have passed or have completely had remission. It's a great event to just support. It was It was really nice. I'm I'm definitely going to work to even if I'm not speaking, I'm going to definitely going to work to go do do those sorts of things. I just wanted to shout them out. It was great. So. Now, thank you. Thank you so much. It It meant a lot now to make it to the 23rd. So, all right. Next item on our agenda are the approval of the minutes dated October 5th, 2026 as which was a work session and October 12th, 2026, which was a reg- regular session. Hearing no discussion, I'll accept a motion to approve both of the minutes.

So Second.

It's been moved and properly seconded that we approve the minutes for October 5th and October 12th, 2026. Um all in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, please use the same sign. It passes unanimously.

The next item is ceremonial items. We only have one. It's a proclamation for Family Caregivers Month. Welcome. Tell us all about it.

Thank you to the Durham Board of County Commissioners for recognizing November as National Family Caregivers Month in Durham County. I also want to thank the Commissioners for allowing me to speak this evening. My name is Shalisa Howard-Martinez. I am the executive director for Aging Well Durham. Aging Well Durham is the backbone group for the Durham Comprehensive Aging Plan. I'm also here as a board member of Dementia Inclusive Inc. and a co-chair of the Partnership for a Healthy Durham. I am mentioning these associations because each group is lifting up family caregivers through direct support, data collection, and advocacy. One example, the Partnership for Healthy Durham held listening sessions with community members last year. The purpose of those sessions was to learn from communities about what we uh what what are health priorities for Durham County. In response to the question, "What are your primary causes of stress?" caring for someone else was the fourth cited reason by community members, and parenting or caring for the child was the sixth reason. Care work is also a priority for the Durham Comprehensive Aging Plan. Over the next year, Aging Well Durham and our partners are forming a coalition that will be focused on advocacy and practical ways for how we can better support caregivers in this community. I also want to recognize Heather Burkhardt. She is the associate state director for um AARP North Carolina. And this year, AARP released a report called Valuing the Invaluable. One key finding from that report is that in North Carolina, family caregivers provide $33

billion of uncompensated care every year. $33 billion is approximately the same amount of the state budget that was just signed by Governor Stein in July. Family caregivers are not just good people doing what is expected of them. They are a major economic force. They and we, because I'm also a family caregiver, are filling gaps for every sector here in Durham County because without care work, no other work is possible. We must do better to uplift caregivers beyond pats on the back and offering the very unhelpful comment of I don't know how you do it. I am inviting every member of the Durham County Board of Commissioners to join the Aging Plan's Caregiving Coalition because we need your collaboration, your ideas, and your people power so that Durham County can do better for family caregivers. Thank you so much for allowing me to speak.

Thank you very much. Any comments from our commissioners? I'll go with Vice Chair Alum, Commissioner Burton, then Commissioner Jacobs.

All right. Thank you so much for bringing this resolution to us and for all the work that you do on the many, many, many hats that you are wearing in this work. Um it's I'm really appreciative of this also just on a personal level of having been recently I was actually, you know, on staff for National Domestic Workers Alliance and some the so the work of advocating for care workers is very personal as well to me and it's something that, you know, here in North Carolina that we are struggling with because our state, you know, legislature does not provide the funding and support that care providers need whether it's child care, elder care, home care workers, all of those facilities and we're seeing a lot of ways that federal funding that's supposed to be coming down to the state and supposed to be actually going to raise the salaries for

caregivers and care workers is going into, you know, care facilities using that funding for parking lot expansions or other things that doesn't actually go to what is federally intended to. And so this work that you are doing it's also, you know, really important. Um one of the things that I learned during my time And and the way we something that we often take for granted is the amount of work that, you know, caregivers, whether they're family caregivers or, you know, someone who works in the caregiving field, that if they have a loved one that they're taking care of, or even if it's not a family member that they're taking care of, the emotional weight of what happens after that person, you know, passes on and how these caregivers are expected to just move on and continue on with their day-to-day lives when they are carrying that grief. Um And how there's not really systems of support for that. Um so I'm really glad that you're doing this work and I hope that, you know, to support it and would love to have more information about the events and the meetings that you're talking about for us to join so we can build that collaborative support system for caregivers in Durham.

Thank you. I look forward to staying in touch.

Commissioner Burton.

Yes, thank you so much um bringing forth this proclamation to us on a, you know, this touches me at a personal level because I'm a caregiver and um you know, we have to really look out for the people who are taking care of not only of our children but our elders, especially as Durham continues to age. And we were actually talking about you, um County Manager Hagram and myself were at the Central Pines Regional Council session on aging. And um Lee Worsley, the executive director, mentioned your organization. And yes, I would like to support you and be a part of um this um so just let me know, let

us know um because the work is so important and so much is done um particularly with our seniors um unpaid.

Yeah.

Right. And so thank you so much for this.

Thank you. Thank you so much as well.

Mr. Jacobs.

Commissioner Burton.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Commissioner Jacobs.

Well, thank you, Shalisa, for bringing this uh resolution to us and you know, honestly, sitting sitting around this dais, there are three people who are caregivers for their family members. So, I'm glad that you brought that up, Commissioner Burton. And so, who are who are family caregivers and doing many other things, too, at the same time. Um and so, it is it is a huge issue um that we don't have the types of supports that we need, but I really appreciate the work that Dementia Inclusive Inc. is doing, that Aging Well Durham is to bring people together and build up that those supports and relationships and getting the word out about some of the resources that do exist in North Carolina. For instance, maybe you could talk about, Shalisa, the way that you can get reimbursed in North Carolina for some of um some of your uh time. And especially, I think there's also a certain benefit for veterans as well. Um so, maybe you could speak about that as what some of the resources we do have.

So, there I I have heard about um family members being able to be being compensated for providing um support to family members um who need um care. I am not sure about the veterans um benefit, though. Um I would like to learn more about that. That's a part of the coalition's work is figuring out what are the current um resources, but also what are the innovations that are happening maybe in other states that we

can advocate for to provide more support for family caregivers. I know that Central Pines Regional Council um speaking of what um Commissioner Burton just mentioned that I was at a meeting there also a couple weeks ago with the Area Agency on Aging director. And so, she told me about Genisha Hennigan that there were two counties who also piloted something like this similar with some of their ARPA funding a few years ago. So, I do think it's possible for us to provide more support, but I I definitely would need to know more about or I'm interested in learning more about the veterans um resource in in particular. Yes.

And I appreciate um you being here from AARP as well. Thank you. Um and um this is I I can see though with that I'm trying to say that I can see that the efforts that you are leading and others are making a difference in our community because when I recently attended the dementia forum um I think it was in September last month. Um you could see the relationships that are building between people and organizations and that is really that is very important as a way that people are sharing resources, they're supporting each other and that that is very powerful. Um this is this is a challenge that's only going to get greater with the demographic changes that we have happening in Durham County. We are aging as a population and in in our country as well and it affects everyone. Um My husband is actually retiring this week

[laughter]

as a primary care doctor and you know, there was a retirement event for him this weekend. I was really taken um that talking to some of his colleagues, two of them

have had [clears throat] to um have chosen to scale back on their work because they're caring for parents uh who have uh dementia at home. And so, you know, even thinking about physicians who are you know, making that commitment to care for their own family members. So, it is um uh it it affects everyone. And um, again, thank you. And just to add to the things that Shalisa does, if you don't know, she is our acting chair of our opioid settlement advisory committee, as well. So, thank you for everything that you do.

Thank you.

Uh, Valentine.

Yes. Thank you, Chair. Uh, Shalisa, thank you for bringing this uh, proclamation uh, forward this evening. And with respect to to veterans, the Department of Veterans Affairs actually does have a family caregiver program where they provide a financial benefit to uh, veteran's family who is stepping in the gap with regards to to that care. And so, to the extent that you have some interested in that or have some interest in that, I'd be happy to talk to you with about that online, I mean, offline.

Absolutely.

And connect you with all the right people here locally.

Okay, absolutely. Thank you so much.

Uh, caring for uh, loved ones as they age in place is a labor of love. Uh, as the Commissioner Jacobus mentioned, there's several people around the dais who do that every day. And sometimes that work is done uh, in silence. And uh, I was reminded here recently by a friend of mine who uh, in having a discussion about um, providing care to aging loved ones, he said, "You know, Valentine, you're having the time of your life. And you you don't even know it." And so, thank you for highlighting uh, people who provide care to parents who are aging in place. Uh, it is truly a

labor of love. And so, thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you so much. Thank you all so much, everyone.

And thank uh, thank you for this. Um, very very important and there's so many people who will care for their loved ones. So and that is um, that's a blessing. You know, to be able to care for your for your loved ones. Because you get to have them for that period of time. When it could be much different. So, thank you for this. And thank you for this proclamation for coming to speak today about this proclamation. We're honored to be able to provide it.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you. Okay. Next item on our agenda is the consent agenda. We have three items as that's been reviewed and put forward here on our consent agenda today. If there's no questions, I'll accept the motion. If there's no discussion or questions, I'll accept the motion to approve the consent agenda as presented.

Yeah, I don't want to remove anything from the consent agenda. I just want to uplift the Durham Community Schools program. I see Dr. Luke Carmen and Miles Spann. Um this is a initiative that Durham County government has funded I think about 7-8 years now and it's really doing good work. Um I met with Dr. Carmen about like some of the things that they're doing. They just expanded to two middle schools and also about them presenting before the Board of County Commissioners to talk about some of the things that the Community Schools program is doing. So, I just want to lift that up and thank you so much.

Uh Commissioner Jacobs.

I just want to piggyback on Commissioner Burton's comments that we'd love to have you come and present about give us an update and

the whole community because I think normally we do get that annually and it's been a while. So, it would be great if we could um get that and onto one of our upcoming agendas. Thank you.

Okay, any other comments on any item on the consent agenda? All right. We already have the motion. We have Wait, have we been Okay, now I'll accept the motion to approve the consent agenda.

So moved.

Second.

All right. It has been properly moved and seconded and we approve the consent agenda as presented. All in favor say "Aye".

Aye.

All opposed, please use the same sign. Passes unanimously. Okay, moving on to other business. We have one item in other business and it is the property tax updates. All right. We got a rockstar crew coming up here. Man. And we're lucky.

Good evening, board. Dwayne Brinson, assistant county manager. We want to have a discussion this evening to continue talking about the property tax reappraisal process. Uh some information we feel is relevant as long as well as moving forward with 2029 reappraisal. That is that process has already started. So we're going to have a discussion on that as well. I'll let the I'll let Mr. Doyle take over and introduce Mr. Hemingway as well.

Uh Kiardo, tax administrator. And I do have attorney Hemingway with me. Um he has definitely experienced a lot dealing with my office and property tax commission um appeals. He's new to our office in regards to partnering with the tax office, but he's

been a big big big help. So we thought he'd be very useful in providing any legal um experience and thoughts throughout this presentation. I'm going to jump right in. Um please feel free to ask questions as I go or I definitely created the slides to make sure that we have time for Q&A following. So however you all choose to approach the agenda. We're going to discuss the 2025 reappraisal very briefly, the appeal process, the Board of Equalization and Review, public records requests, tax exemptions, and evaluating the processes for a 2029's upcoming reappraisal. General information. Durham County's most recent reappraisal date was January 1, 2025. The last reappraisal in Durham County took place 6 years prior, 2019. Appraisal reappraisal value change notices were delivered to property owners in March of 2025. The Board of Equalization and Review began hearing appeals in May of 2025. There were at least 10,533 appeals received during that appeal cycle. And the deadline to appeal was June 16th, which was not the traditional time period in regards to when appeals usually deadline. Typically, it's around May 1st, first 2 weeks of May. Uh Durham County's real property grew from and this is just real property, not the total. The real property grew from 43 billion to an excess of 70 billion. The Durham County sales assessment ratio was reported to be 61.05 in 2024. This is post 2019's reappraisal, a year from the 2025 reappraisal during the

Department of Revenue's post-2019 reappraisal measurement. This is typical. Um after reappraisal, you expect the market if the market continues to be steady in one direction, you would expect the ratio to grow, creating a lower ratio each year you come away from the most recent reappraisal. The goal of the 2025 reappraisal was to bring all taxable property to 100% market value. Following the 2025 reappraisal notices being delivered to the property owners, the Department of Revenue measured Durham County reporting at 100.20. This supports the level of accuracy in the review of the 2024 sales data used to execute that task. Excuse me. Previous presentations before the Board of County Commissioners Commissioners in 2024 and 2025 illustrated the results found in the relationship between the commercial sales and commercial income values across the local market. The following slides are just to speak to previous things discussed over the last few presentations last 2 years. This was a slide used previously to show our ratio prior to the 2025 reappraisal. As you can see, Durham County was 61.05.

Can you um kind of talk about what do we mean by ratio?

Okay.

What's the What does that number actually mean? What are we comparing in a ratio?

Sure. Great question. So, the ratio represents in general specifically a property's the the relationship between a sale price and your tax value. So, if the market is going up and your your tax value is a fixed to a reappraisal year. So, 2025 being the last reappraisal, my tax value is $400,000. If the market increases, my value stays at $400,000. You would

expect the ratio to drop. So, I would go further from 100% which was the goal of the reappraisal to bring everybody to 100% as the market changes, the ratio changes. So, if market goes up, that'll affect the ratio. If market goes down, ratio goes up. All right? Thank you for that question. 2025 Department of Revenue Assessment ratio study post reappraisal. This is just illustrating the 100.23 weighted ended up being 100 even. This is a slide that was used in a previous presentation, I believe in 2024. This was just the staff's research of the market that was being reviewed prior to actual 2025 reappraisal. So, this is this is real-time research that was taking place 23 24 market. During that time, offices showed vacancy rates were high. Values were declining in regards to sales since 2021. Average sale price per square foot was roughly $15 higher than in 2019. High vacancy rates expected to impact appeals. These are actual slides that were not changed at all other than I added a YouTube video to the bottom that is actual video footage of that of a presentation um covering more commercial information. Retail average sale price price per square foot roughly $50 higher than 2019. Multifamily vacancy rates were at a record high. Rental rates were declining. Average sales price per unit was up roughly 40,000. The industrial industry average sale price per square foot was $50 higher than in 2019. Hospitality was

holding strong and was actually looked at as being one of the best in the state in regards to the average sale price per room was up roughly $7,000 since 2019. So, this is a snapshot of the research that was being done prior to 2025 reappraisal.

I have a question about that side, so Oops. What the dynamic could be with a multifamily if the vacancy rates are high And the rental rates are declining and but the sales price is still gone up. What kind of dynamic does that create?

Very tricky dynamic. Um, it's very complex, but it kind of is in line with what we've discussed for the past 2 years in regards to sales showing a particular steady, strong value while vacancy rates which impact income showing a different experience. So, vacancy rates were high but the sales were still strong during that time period, which are going to impact those two particular approaches to value. Sales comparison method and the income approach. So, those two approaches to value are in that particular example showing two different directions. Just because vacancy rates impact income.

Now, I'll add very quickly. That's not terribly uncommon with with a multi-family property. Uh, I've seen that over the years. Uh, reval or not. Um, you know, these these properties are an investment. And sometimes people buy it waiting for the rebound in the economy um, thinking they can go into a property sometimes an improvement, bring the values up. Just a number of reasons that could happen with multi-family property.

Thank you for that question.

Market conditions, this is just a a brief summary of what we're seeing post 2025 re appraisal. Some of this is actually late 2025, but it's post 2025 market review period. Real estate market value started to decline in late 2024. To date, the sales market has rebounded slightly, but has yet to reach the '23 and '24 levels. And that's real estate in general, specifically residential. Commercial real estate shifted dramatically between 2019 and 2025. So, the two through that 6-year period traditional office spaces declined while industrial and retail remained tight. So, we're speaking about the time period between the two reappraisals, 2019-2025. Office buildings in 2018, which was 2018 would be the market period you were looking at for 2019's reappraisal, reported vacancy rates as low as 8.5 while in 2024 those market rates showed as high as 23% and that is the period of time we were looking at for 2025, the 2024 market. Durham reported multiple office spaces experiences experiencing 100% vacancy during the 23-24 review period. Apartments reported vacancy rates as low as 5% in 2018 while showing vacancy rates up to 10% in 24.

Sorry, I have another question. When you said um during the market review period, could you explain about what the market review period is?

So, the market review period for each reappraisal is typically 2 years. You try to use the data from the 2 years preceding the actual reappraisal date. So, January 1, 2025, that review period was '23 through December 20 December 31st, '24 and it would have been the same for 2019, 2017 all the way up to

December 31st, '18. So, it's usually a 2-year period. If there aren't enough sales, unfortunately, you do have to go back further, but typically we like to stay within a 2-year period. That's the goal.

And are you typically averaging those values or calculating or decide using like the highest value or lowest value?

I'm sorry.

No, my question was um for the like the 2 years of appraisal period when you're collecting those um recent sales, do you then take those and like average it to come to the reappraisal value, or is it you use like the highest or lowest sale value?

So, we kind of we look at everything individually, but in general, we usually we usually try to stay away from averages. We like to tend to stay towards medians, but in this particular case, we are looking at sales data, and the main goal is to make sure that we are qualifying the data. So, when I say review, what we're doing is we're looking at each sale, and we're analyzing those sales to make sure that they are qualified sales. They don't need to be disqualified for not being arms-length transaction, maybe a foreclosure. There's certain things we're looking for to make sure that this is a good sale to be using in the analysis. All right. Um the two reappraisals experienced very different and complex market activities to be reviewed, speaking to 2019 and 2025. The apartment market activity of 2018 was steady, while the 2024 market saw an explosion of new construction. New construction means increased inventory, which impacts the actual supply and demand. Uh the 2024 market's heavy waves of multi-unit new construction outpaced absorption, which impacted the vacancy

rates negatively. The complexities between the relationship of the income approach and the sales comparison approach were very present during the market review period. In a typical market, the three approaches to value are very close in range, and that's a preferred market, but we have to deal with what whatever the market is showing. The importance of community outreach. Uh in 2021, the County of Durham partnered with the UNC School of Government to conduct a property tax study. The school of government analyzed tax appeal data from 2016 to 2019's general general reappraisals. The goal was to examine potential systemic disparities across property values, neighborhood demographics, and income levels. The data did not show systemic bias in the actual outcomes. It illustrated when lower value properties were appealed, the success rate and percentage of reductions were comparable to higher value property appeals. However, the study did show that homeowners in higher value properties and less racially diverse neighborhoods submitted property tax appeals at significantly higher rates. Because of this, we appreciated the support of the Board of County Commissioners and the county manager's office in regards to supporting our efforts to increase community outreach. Um you all definitely supported those efforts by um giving us places to go to, organizing certain um engagements, and that was something that we felt was needed given this type of results, knowing that across the county certain people certain certain groups needed to be informed. So, we appreciate those efforts and that support. All right, specifically speaking to the appeal process. Make sure I didn't skip a slide.

All right, property is reviewed by staff. Staff may contact the appellant, set up field visits, and exchange information. This is residential or commercial. Board of Equalization and Review Process. Property owners and staff may agree to recommend a value prior to a scheduled hearing date, but all values must be approved by the Board of Equalization and Review. Final approval can be reached by a traditional hearing or consent agenda. Property Tax Commission Process. Any [clears throat] property owner that is not satisfied with the decision of the board

Um Joel, I had a question. So, when you say So, I'm just so I know in my mind. So, a person they don't agree with their property value and so they appeal. And they put in their appeal, they get it in by the deadline, and so the first step is that the staff tries to work with the appellant to come to some sort of agreement. Is that how it works first?

I don't want to say they try to come to an agreement, but yes, they they exchange information to see if the listing is correct. First First step is to make sure that what we have on record is correct. If in doing that, there are some things discovered that may impact value, then yes, they would try to come to terms with a an adjusted value.

All right.

Um it's not necessarily a negotiation, it's a matter of making sure that whatever we have on record is correct. If that is correct, there's a chance there there is no adjustment, but if there are some issues discovered during that exchange of information, then a an adjustment could be warranted.

Because you received new information, new evidence, okay? And so, that will go

on So, if say, "Okay, we agree." It goes before the Board of Equalization review and it's put on the consent agenda just like we get items on our consent agenda. And the Board of Equalization review can just vote yes, we agree, move on, or they can pull an item from the consent agenda if they have questions and concerns or maybe Yeah, they just have questions and concerns about that particular item.

Correct.

Okay. So, I wanted to make that clear because there's something that okay, the BOER did not hear all of the um appellants but by having it on the consent agenda if they had any concerns they had the evidence they had the information they could have pulled it from the consent agenda just like we have or if residents have asked to be I have an item pulled from the consent agenda. So I want that to be made clear so thank you so much.

And and if I could just step in for a moment to talk about this process

[clears throat]

in terms of the appeal process when it gets to the consent or sorry when it gets to the Board of Equalization or Review they're an independent body whose job it is is to make determinations of value and so that happens as um either via the consent agenda or through the potential of you know an evidentiary hearing where the county personnel and the taxpayer can present their their evidence and the board makes that decision. But for purposes of the consent agenda I believe it's my understanding that a a lot of cases were resolved in that fashion which isn't unusual from a legal perspective in the civil world and the criminal world all across the legal world most cases resolve through some sort of agreed resolution

because when the parties look at the facts and when there's really no disagreement about what the facts are people tend to resolve cases. They they you know stop fighting the fight and they recognize where things are going to go and the neutral bodies that hear whether it's in a you know a Supreme Court judge whether it's a trial court judge whether it's a commissioner or a member of this board they tend to have a lot of faith in the parties before them that the parties know their case better than them and if the parties are satisfied that this is a fair resolution it's very common for courts and these bodies to take the parties um and trust the integrity of that.

And just to add to that, and if the property owner does not agree with the Board of Equalization and Reviews decision, they can appeal to the North Carolina Property Tax Commission.

That is correct.

Okay. And because I got a question about something I made a comment I made on August 24th about, you know, state law, things like that, and that's what I was kind of referencing to is that um people who appeal and they don't agree with the Board of Equalization and Review, they can go to the North Carolina Property Tax Commission, and they are their word is final. Whatever they decide, it's final, correct?

Well, actually, if somebody's dissatisfied with the Property Tax Commission's decision, they have further appeal in the appellate courts of North Carolina. So, they can appeal to the Court of Appeals, and if they don't like the Court of Appeals decision, they can seek further review by the North Carolina Supreme Court.

Thank you for that. I Okay, so they can go even further. All right. Thank you so much. I had a question about this one, also. So, to your point, Hiram, about, you know, that kind of the agreement and coming to that review process when it comes to the consent items. So, it's not necessarily

that you know, somebody submitted an appeal and, you know, county administrative staff tax administrative staff looked at it and they're like, "Okay, yeah, we'll accept that." And then it's put on agenda. It's the county staff look at it, review the data, and then there's conversations between the property owner, and then there's like a middle ground or some sort of agreement that comes to. Do we have like the data on of these that of the appeals process, how many of them actually ended up being the value that the um commercial property owner requested versus a like middle ground and like how much would the up appeal process, like the revenue loss or property value loss have been if it was just, you know, the commercial properties values that they presented to the Board of Equalization and Review um in their appeals process, if that was what was just, you know, on consent and approve versus this kind of like working conversation between the tax administrative staff and coming to an agreement. If that makes difference uh makes sense.

Um I believe it does. Yes, um if I understand the question correctly, yes, we can get to that number. Um that we have the information we have we have the value the original value. We have a record of what the appellant opinion of value was, and we have a record of the final value. So, we have the three values to back into, I believe, what you are describing. Um do I already have that report? No, but we can we can get to those numbers.

Okay. Yeah, that would be great. Oh, sorry.

And I could just say, for the cases pending before the Property Tax Commission I don't know that we would be able to compile that just because uh the Property Tax Commission does not require uh a a taxpayer to put the value that they want up front. They often do, and it's on their form, but the failure to

fill that in would not disqualify someone's appeal. So, it wouldn't stop them from pursuing that process.

So, they can appeal and say like that value is too high, but then not actually say like what they think their value is supposed to be?

At least to file the appeal. As the process moves forward, eventually they would have to put forward some sort of value, but in terms of just knowing uh because those appeals are ongoing, we wouldn't have the ability to say for certain what all the proposed values from taxpayers are at this point.

Yeah, if you can get those three numbers for us of like all the appeals that have been approved for us so I we can also see and like when we're talking to you know, residents when they come to us and ask us like well, the county approved all of this for to help us explain that like you know there was work that was done. It wasn't that just the tax administrative office just, you know, blindly said yes to whatever commercial property owner presented and that that was, you know, the word and done.

No problem. Do want to add very quickly um from the tax office perspective, it's not we we don't meet in the middle ground. It's not a negotiation. Uh the burden of proof is on the taxpayer. Uh so during these appeal hearings, whether it's with our appraisers, board of you know, or whatever it may be the taxpayer has to prove why the value is different than the value that we have on the books. So they have to bring documents in whether it's their own research, an appraisal, whatever it may be. Uh and in the event they prove their case, then we can adjust the value.

And I'll just note that that presumption is written to the law. That's That's the legal presumption that the you know, the general assembly has written the law to give a lot of faith to assessors to do the to do that initial valuation correctly. Therefore, it places that burden on taxpayers to present evidence that there was some sort of error in

that valuation process and only if the taxpayer can rebut that presumption even at the property tax commission, will the commission then proceed to hear the case. If the taxpayer fails to rebut that presumption of correctness, then the case is over.

Um one question about the appeals process. So um and I know I sent an email with a long list of questions, but um you don't have to answer all of them now, but one thing that I was wondering during key was around the dates of the appeal process of like, you know, the January 1st, 2025 day. When the property owner comes to the board of equalization review if they present information that is post that January 1st, 2025 day, is that allowed to be included or considered for the appeals?

They They can They can speak to whatever they want in regards to whatever try point they're trying to get across. Um but that evidence would not be considered in regards to market data to support a value. In some kind of way if they were trying to speak to some trend or some kind of I mean yes, they could they could use it just to for conversation pieces, but in regards to supporting value, no.

Uh this is really important. I think there's definitely a lot of confusion about I mean, we're all asking questions too for clarity just about you know, this is a complex process and so getting you know, I think asking these questions is really helpful to get clarity on the different roles uh of the tax office versus the board of equalization review, the state. It's so it's really really helpful. Um and so just to understand again um when So, the consent agenda are items that they somebody has presented brought

information to the tax office that has shown that there there was you know, there needed to be a change based on the information. Am I saying that correctly? I just want to be clear.

In probably most cases, sometimes the consent agenda has some properties on it where the actual property owner may be out of state. They're not coming to the actual hearing. There were enough communications where a particular value may have been adjusted or not. Sometimes it Sometimes not. Um and those a lot of these cases still end up on the property tax commission floor. So So, some of these values are just being heard in regards to getting through the process and they may still go to the property tax commission. So, so just because somebody's on the consent agenda and maybe even a value was adjusted, does not mean they are not going to the property tax commission to fight for a further to further fight for that value. So, the consent agenda for the most part means that something was established, but it could just be that the owner is saying okay to whatever is being presented because they intend to go further anyway.

Okay.

Um and and that that happens a lot with commercial properties when the owners might might be out of state or they have no intentions on coming to the actual hearing.

So, there are a lot of different things on the consent agenda.

And compared to other counties in terms of benchmarking, how do other counties deal with the types of adjustments that can be made at the within the tax department? Do other counties put all of those on the consent agenda as well? Is is the way that we do this process similar or different than other counties?

Um I would defer to Mr. Branson. He's had more experience in other counties. Um I've only been in Durham, so I only

really know what we do. Um I do believe that there are some previous some other counties that utilize um informal appeals, and I think that might be similar to what you're describing. Um I'm not 100% sure what all what other counties do specifically in regards to how they handle the Board of Equalization and Review consent agenda or actual hearings.

Mhm.

Yeah, we in Durham County, we take those to the Board of E&R. So, anything that comes in that's an appeal in Durham County, we take that to the Board of E&R uh and have them uh look at the record, vote on it. Um and it goes into the uh record in the tax office as well.

So, there's actually two layers of oversight. First, the tax office, and then the BOER has this the final say. Are there some counties where it does those items don't go to the BOER and they are just decided in the tax office?

We can we could probably come back with a survey and do some benchmarking. I

It would be interesting to see.

We can do some benchmarking and see what our peers do.

Yeah. Um because I I have heard that in some counties we they don't actually even go on the consent agenda of the BOER. So it would be it would be interesting to hear um to know what we're doing benchmarking it to other counties. Yeah.

I was just going to say we're benchmarking quite a few processes and programs throughout the organization as we are faced with um either trying to optimize revenues or um programmatically make sure we are as efficient as possible and this is definitely an area we will benchmark um best practices engaging sort of what is the gold standard. How are we following those processes and um looking at as we prepare for 2029 what we can change um

in transition for 2029 or um during that particular cycle.

All right. Um the what we've been talking about the property tax commission process. Um any property owner that is not satisfied with the decision of the Board of Equalization and Review may appeal to the North Carolina Property Tax Commission. There are actually instructions included in the notice of appeal that we sent out um not notice of appeal, the notice of value. So anybody who goes to the Board of Equalization and Review and gets a value change upward or downward or no change receives a notice explaining the new value or lack thereof and the instructions as to how to appeal to the Board of to the Property Tax commission is included on that particular notification.

Quick question. I was wondering do a lot of commercial property owners, do a lot of them appeal to the North Carolina Property Tax Commission? Is it equal? Like how does that work? What do What have you all seen?

Um I think that varies from year to year, but in general um we had 10,500 appeals. Um we have about 250, I believe slightly more that initially went to the Property Tax Commission. I think we have about 230 left and out of that 230, 45 or so are commercial. Um I don't know how those translate year to year, but that's where we are right now.

Just to follow up, do we then get the results back or communicated back to us? How does How does that happen?

Yep.

So the Property Tax Commission, they will adjudicate Well, they have a similar process where as cases come up for sessions the the appraisers within the tax department review the case, they speak with the taxpayer, there may be an exchange of

further information. If there's an agreement reached, that can be submitted to the Property Tax Commission for their review and approval or it can go to a contested hearing where the evidence is submitted and the commissioners render a decision. Uh and they're a five-person body, so up to they need you know, a majority. They'll They'll sometimes have split decisions, but the majority will be the the decision of that body. And those are communicated via written order that is transmitted back to the county. And once that order is received, the county's records are updated uh to reflect that value and at times, if there is perhaps a refund due to a taxpayer for one or more tax years where the value is higher than that, that will be subsequently processed and sent to the taxpayer.

And could you just also, I know we're spending a lot of time on this, but I think it's important. Um could you walk us through, I mean maybe either Key or Hyrum, like what it what is an evidentiary hearing like um at the BOER and like just like give us an example, like how long does it take and what types of information do people need to bring with them? I mean I'm thinking about for instance, one of the things that we try to do is help people have the sales comparison data for instance online. Like is that the kind of thing that people would bring with them? Um just just wondering how it actually all works.

Um so Durham County, I believe is very very very proactive in ensuring that the residents or the taxpayers, property owners of Durham have um every opportunity to appeal. Um we provided you all um invested in our website that actually provides a tool called Comper that allows taxpayers to to actually pull up

their property and have comps displayed for them to help them um begin to try to come up with an appeal or maybe decide that they don't need to appeal. But providing comps is a very very good thing that we've been doing here in Durham County for at least I believe close to 10 years. Um or very close to it. Um also the online access I believe has been made very very easy to use. Um it actually walks people through the process if they can just get to the website, click on tax help, and um it it walks them through the entire process. But yes, Comper is something that was put in place to assist property owners who would like to appeal to show them exactly where the comps are coming from that were used to help get to the value. Um they can use they can use that website when they appeal. They could come up with their own comps from external vendors like um Redfin, Five O Morris, any realtor.com, anything they could find that's that provides sales comps or sales. Um, but technically all someone has to do is file an appeal. They don't need any information, technically. Um, it's good to have evidence to support your argument, but one only needs to file an appeal to formally appeal their value. Um, it's definitely in their best interest to have evidence to support whatever arguments or um challenges that they are making. A lot of times taxpayers may um include pictures of property if they're trying to make an argument for depreciation. Um, they might show pictures of the internal. Um, they might have cost to cures, damage to the property that's specific to their home that kind of goes outside of the natural market area Um, there are a lot of things that property owners, residential or commercial, may use to um try to include in their evidence to support their

argument.

And I'll just step in from the hearings um that I've both observed and participated with at the Property Tax Commission. I've seen everything from, you know, a homeowner just coming in and talking about why they think the property is too expensive compared to their neighbors to sophisticated appraisal reports uh and you know, several expert witnesses coming in and really different experts focusing on very different nuanced issues. And so, it runs the gamut in terms of how technical a taxpayer chooses to get when they present their case. And I got to going back to a point made earlier, it's really the better the evidence the taxpayer brings, the more likely it is that they will uh rebut that initial presumption and thus uh require the county to then put on evidence to defend its value. And then if a a case gets to that point, then ultimately the commission will resolve factual disputes and make a determination about what the appropriate value is.

Uh appeal history. During a typical non-reappraisal year, the Department of Tax Administration receives anywhere between 75 to 200 appeals. During a reappraisal year, traditionally Durham County received anywhere between 4,500 and 7,500 appeals. 2025 reappraisal produced slightly more than 10,500 appeals. 5,300 received during the 2 weeks before the deadline.

I have a question. Um and I'm trying to go back um about the commercial like there were a certain number of property owners were able to get um their appeals through after the deadline. Um

I'm trying to remember who made that decision about that that I think there was about 1,100, correct me if I'm wrong cuz I'm going from memory, 1,100 commercial property owners who the Board of Equalization review they after the deadline or something like that.

Uh there were close to 1,200 appeals altogether for commercial. So, I don't there there definitely were appeals submitted after the deadline that only the Board of Equalization review can accept as untimely. Staff does not have the authority to accept a an appeal after the deadline. Only the Board of Equalization and review does. Um but it definitely wasn't a number that high. I I do not know the exact number, though.

Yeah, I just [snorts] remember I I was going from from memory. So, yeah, I know there was a number that came in after the deadline. So,

definitely. Um I don't believe it was more than 200 appeals accepted after the deadline. In general, not specific to commercial.

And

Now, there were a lot received very late, but not after the deadline. Yeah.

So, they were received late, okay.

Very late.

And I know we because one of the things that you all have done, you have really worked hard to keep us informed about the process. I was going back through my old emails, we received emails, we received presentations to make sure that we were informed as commissioners what was happening with the tax reevaluation. So, thank you for clarifying that.

No problem.

And do we have a follow up to that of the like 200 that were submitted after the deadline, how many if any the Board of Equalization and Review did, you know, consider and allow to come in after since staff can't um, make that decision, do we know?

I'm sure. Yes, we can find out cuz we

would have the date of submission.

And then wondering cuz I know we also the county did because of the number of appeals that we got, um, we had changed and we had provided an extension of pushing the date back. What would have happened, like what guidelines are there if the county didn't provide that extension, like if we had um, kept an earlier date as the deadline for appeals?

Um, considering we received 5,000 in the last three or four weeks, uh, we would definitely have been closer to 4,000, I believe. Um, I I don't know cuz maybe they got them in at the last minute at the other deadline date. Um, but by the time of by the time we crossed May 10th, May 12th, we were under 5,000 appeals.

Would that like, I think more so I'm wondering like would the state would these property owners have any ability to go to the state to like argue their case or make an appeal because they missed the deadline or if they had missed the deadline.

You have to go through the Board of Equalization and Review to go to the Property Tax Commission.

Okay. Well, and I did have one more question about the Board of Equalization and Review. Who is allowed to serve on it? Cuz I was trying to find and I sent this in my email. I was trying to find like what our rules are because so the county commissioners get to make some decisions on that.

So, technically the board I'm going to I'm going to go through the slide and I'm going to answer your question. Um the board members are appointed by the Board of County Commissioners. If you don't technically you are the Board of Equalization and Review. The Board of County Commissioners appoint a board to act in their stead. All right. Annually the Department of Revenue delivers the formal charge to the Board of Equalization and Review prior to the first official meeting. Meaning the Department of Revenue comes

and does a annual rules and regulations policies, what you can and can't do, how to how to go through a process of actual hearings and meetings. Um the board has a duty to hear taxpayer appeals. Appeals may be resolved in a contested evidentiary hearing or through the consent agenda. And for each case that comes before it, the board issues an order reducing, increasing, or affirming the appraised value under appeal. I've included two links to actually get to more information in regards to the appeals handbook and property tax appeal process. Um to answer your question specifically any resident of Durham County could apply for the Board of Equalization and Review. You do not have to be knowledgeable or profession professional um in real estate. Um traditionally Durham County has valued knowledgeable people in real estate, but that is not a requirement. Anyone can apply and be appointed by the Board of County Commissioners.

That's helpful. Yeah, cuz when I was trying to find like the boards, like the rules and stuff, I couldn't find like what are the qualifications requirements. The only thing I could find was from 2017, which did say that you have to be like a real estate agent or like a prop- a assessor or an attorney that whose firm works in the field of real estate. And so, if we could get like that if that was changed post-2017, uh what year was that change and could we get that language of what the appointment qualification requirements are?

Um that that language predates myself and um Mr. Branson. So, I believe that somewhere in the past, someone might have tried to make preferences, but that's not state law. It's not state required.

[clears throat]

Yeah. We're wondering for the after Durham County, what are cuz we do have some with already. So, if we have those, can we

Too many greens. Uh since I've been on the board, we have typically appointed either attorneys, appraisers, or real estate professionals, but I do think this is something important for us to look at. And actually, over the summer, I did speak to Monica, to our clerk, to um to K.Y.R., to Dwayne, to the county manager about um us looking at what other counties do with their B.O.E.R.s. And I know that um staff is um looking at that to bring back to us um about, you know, again, benchmarking what we're doing with other counties and looking at what does it look like to have a more diverse board, to have different skill sets, different perspectives. You know, one um one I'm I'm interested in looking at what does it look like to have, you know, for instance, housing justice advocates who are community people in the community on there. Kiara has mentioned, what is it like to look have people with actual commercial um real estate experience because most of the realtors, I think, that we have are have more residential experience. So, how do we broaden the perspectives and the skill set of people who are serving on the BOER? And also, we really need people to be engaged because we tried to do a second BOER and we couldn't get enough applicants. And so, we we need to have build up our bench. We need to get more people involved in the BOER. And also, honestly, it's like our next appraisal is in 3 years, 2029. And so, it's it's really the work is now

to prepare for that. And we definitely um I mean, I know Kiara, you've already mentioned some things that you want to do. Um so, you know, you've mentioned wanting to make sure we have a second board in place so that when we start the appeals that you've talked about deadlines. If you want to elaborate on that.

Um yes, it's definitely a priority that we have the ability to be done by January 5th. Um the delinquency date I know I know there's a lot of concern about the adjustment from 2025. Um to me, the biggest failure, my biggest failure was not getting us to the finish line before the delinquency date. Um that impacts budget. That impacts our ability to make adjustments if necessary prior to. So, um to me, that was the biggest issue. And that was something that um I definitely want to make sure we put a different priority to in regards to finding ways to make sure that going past January 5th is not an option.

You also mentioned pushing up the date for the um appeals also, the deadline.

The traditional date was you is usually early May. Um that is to make sure that if that's done, um I know that is a tricky that's a tricky thing to do because extending it definitely helped residents. Um but the traditional date, early May, gives time for us to actually see exactly how many appeals we have. It assists us in actual trying to calculate holdbacks. And these are budget functions, not necessarily um specific to value, but it's about making sure that we have the ability to report to the necessary parties.

I'd like to weigh in on that briefly. Um

when projecting the budget, one of the hardest seasons ever is when you're in the reappraisal um process and you're trying to project what those appeals look like and then what's the impact to your budget for the next year. It is great we were able to extend the date um for residents to have the appeal. It made for a trickier budget season. We presented the budget the the second um I guess it was May the the second week in May the appeals were um their deadline was June 16th.

Yeah.

So that month in the budget world is is tricky. And so we were able to navigate it, but um for future budget years, and we've talked about this before, if in fact because of patterns and addressing the budget, um I'm sorry, the the timing of when taxpayers need to appeal, we would need to revisit when we present the budget to the board. We try to do it early May, so there's more deliberation time. But for those reappraisal years, we would need to consider should we present by the due date, which is statutorily is June 1st, so we can have a better picture of what's happening. What happened this last cycle was unprecedented. And so based on the data and the stats and patterns, we um had um a comfort level. So but we feel good about where we are with the budget, but it does make for trickier time. And all those components sync together. I know Mr. Lane is back there, he can weigh in more if if I've misstated anything.

I will say this is one case where Keith, your gloom and doom paid off.

[laughter]

We had the benefit of Keith's gloom and doom and our county manager being very conservative and and that did us well in this situation. Very cautious and conservative.

That's exactly right. I From a budget standpoint, Manager Hager explained it pretty well, but even before May, there was some concern and when we develop the budget, we start talking with the tax administrator, Keith R in this case, quite early in the process, January and February, and he's given us TR1 numbers and he's given us estimates and we're using those numbers. And he came back, honestly, later than normal with an appeal issue pointing out some things that he were he was learning that was much later than it had ever happened in the past in previous revaluations. I've been here since 2000 and and 2000 and nothing has happened the way it happened. And this past one, that's partly because everything went up approximately 60%. It was There's no comparison to the revaluation process that we all just went through. So, it's not unreasonable to assume that the appeals process has no comparison, either. What our office did was talk with Kia and we talked with the manager and David 80's now like and we made a huge um holdback number because we knew the appeal process was going to be bigger than normal because the growth in the reval was going to be higher than normal. People were going to be shocked at their valuation growth and so there was going to be appeals. What we didn't know is the same thing that Kia did. We didn't know it was going to be 10,000 appeals or 7,500, whatever the number is, significantly higher than it was. We didn't know what the commercial property was. All we could do was when Kia found out, he told us, we told the city and we reacted accordingly.

Can you talk a little bit, I know this came up at a joint city-county meeting,

but could you talk about what the communication look like between the city and the county and tax office, budget office, keeping people updated, um what that looked like and also what are your thoughts on moving forward, is there the opportunity to, you know, in terms of our planning with the city and cuz their budget timeline is so different than us and their process is very different on us and I'm just wondering as one of the ways that we kind of move forward together, I think it would be great to have a discussion with the city about, you know, on every level between, you know, elected bodies and also staff around how do we maybe, you know, communicate differently or work together in a different way. So, I'm I'm just But first like how how do we how did it hap work this during this process?

I cannot speak for Kia directly, but I know the moment that the tax administrator let our office know that the appeals process was going to be significantly larger that the valuation number we were using and therefore the city was using was going to need to be decreased. We called the city and asked for meeting and had a meeting within a day or two the city budget office. Can't get any faster than that. We get the information when we get it. It was later than normal for everybody involved. But I'll tell you this, honestly as a budget director I'd rather have painful information late but have it be correct. The worst possible outcome is to not have known it at all, budgeted at a level that wasn't going to be collected and then we would have had to have used fund balance to make up that difference. So we did find it out later than normal in previous revals. You spoke to the city has a different budgeting process. They have the room to interpret their budget process however

they see fit. I hear you say can we plan together? We can at the next reval if they want to have if we all want to get in sync on a budget process but that takes away a little bit of your priority, your direction as a board to try to then commit to what the city may want or they may have the same feeling and want to have to commit to what you want. That's why we have different boards and they have different budget processes. I will say their budget process is significantly different and so it I'm sure it felt more painful to them to get that information later in the process because I think they were getting close to feeling like their budget was tied down whereas ours wasn't quite there yet. Plus we had a better bigger holdback number. Remember from a budgeting standpoint we're we're dealing with make-believe numbers. We're getting the best information we can from KEYOR and then we're estimating revenues to be collected far out into the future. You know, it's still 6 months before the fiscal year ends and the next fiscal year starts. We're looking 12 months of that fiscal year. So we always have to take these numbers with a grain of salt. I think our office was a little bit more conservative in terms of the holdback, what we said, here's the valuation, let's subtract this amount out of it because we thought the appeal process was going to be pretty significant. I don't know what the city did, but that may have been a part of it.

I will say that from where from my perspective and having um done budgets after reval process of first several cycles, because the county has so many mandated services, um we typically try to balance, well, what's the state going to do, what's the feds going to do, and um if there is a variance and we um overestimated what that holdback is, it it's a better position. So, we we do try

to be conservative because there are so many areas that are required that we don't have um the ability to cover it if we are grossly off target. So, I I it's a balancing act and we do our best and the great thing about the process, you have an opportunity the subsequent year after reappraisal to to have more stability in what that base is and fewer appeals. And so, um the year after you don't have to hold your breath as much.

And just a bob um ma- ma- manager, could you you just sent us this information recently about the difference between the city and county government in terms of our mandated services and programs, which I do think plays a huge part in how we have to budget.

Yes, we shared that with the board and we'll um come back to that information in upcoming meetings as we continue our efforts to look at base operations and what's mandated and required. Uh we sit in a unique situation with um potential um sweeping changes and how funds are flowing from the federal and state side and um balancing all of that does require us to um be more precise in what's mandated because unfortunately even if we just look at places like the ARP funding. That was one-time funding. Many of the priorities are still important but it's no longer there and but um if it were there, we could serve in a lot of ways for food security and other kinds of spaces. So, we will come back to the board and talk about that a little bit more detail.

Yeah, I just want to add this one thing um that Vice Chair Alum discussed with regards to who is on the Board of

Equalization and Review. Um and yes, I agree that it's important to have real estate professionals on there also, you know, other types of residents on the BOER and I know I said at the August 24th meeting when a resident spoke that anyone can apply. Any resident can apply to be on a BOER and I think it's a really good idea that we have a commercial property um a commercial real estate person on because what I'm getting is that commercial real estate is it's way different to value than residential, right? Um and then also I went back and looked through my emails and we had a opening on the BOER back in April because I believe Wendell Bullard cycled off and there was only one person who applied. Um and it was a real estate agent. So, really encouraging [clears throat] when the next group comes off. Like first we got to come up with who do we want on there? Like making sure that and then encouraging people to apply to be on the BOER. So, I just wanted to add that. Thanks.

And we'll have to pass um a resolution for us to change these rules if these 2017 rules um and the what the 2017 Board of Commissioners approved is still what is written if nothing else has been changed between that then our board will also have to pass a resolution to change that um so that we don't have these strict requirements about the real estate experience.

Um I just wanted to briefly speak to the question you asked um in general because the overlap with the deadline for the appeals and budget requirements we set we set holdbacks based off of

drastically lower amount of appeals than we actually ended up receiving. So, the numbers were based on holdbacks which were based on the appeals not being done yet because budget needed numbers prior to June 16th. So, that's what was just described and I'm saying that just to make sure that I'm fair to the city's budget department. So, throughout the process once we passed January 5th there were constant ongoing conversations between our office of tax administration and the city. In their defense, they were getting numbers from us like Mr. Lane said drastically later than they've ever experienced because we were still hearing appeals in April. So, that's something they were not accustomed to. So, I don't know their cycle. Well, yeah, I guess in in regards to the numbers that were presented to them previously in 25 those numbers are changing drastically as the appeals are happening. They're used to that being done in 25. So, the fact that we were still hearing appeals in 26 means that they're still getting updated numbers well beyond what they're used to receiving reports from us. So, from that perspective they were getting data or getting updates later than usual, and I don't know where that fits in their budget cycle. Um Mr. Lane explained how we were able to be agile, I guess, based on our cycle, but the communication that was happening with our budget department was happening with the city. It's just that the timelines, I'm not I'm not sure in regards to what that meant for them versus what that meant for our budget department.

To try to use an analogy, no one likes bad news, but we all got bad news, the city, but it's kind of like the city had already had a planned out trip to go to Disney, and we were just talking about a trip to Disney at that time. So, for them to get that bad news may have meant they had to make some decisions they were not prepared to make it that they just didn't see it coming. We had to make hard decisions as well. We were just in a more flexible environment at the time we had to make those hard decisions. I'm speaking for the city, that's what little bit I know. So, I'm going to be careful there that that's not the gospel truth, but I am trying to say that analogy to support what Keisha is saying that their process would goes a little bit earlier. I don't think that they were expecting to get changed numbers that late in the process, and I think that's why they're a little bit more surprised than we were.

All right, I'm going to move to the next slide, North Carolina Public Records Law. The Department of Tax Administration is required to respond to public information requests. What is a public record? This is a very important slide based on some of the questions we've received over the last month or so. Um what is a public record? Documents or materials created or received by a government agency in North Carolina while conducting public business. Must an agency create or compile a record upon request? Very important. No. An agency is not compelled to create a record that does not already exist. We do, however, have to transfer or share information that we have as it as it is. To uh customize a report for a request, not that we can't, but we are not required to do so. How does an agency handle records that can contain confidential information? If a record contains public and confidential information, agency must separate or redact the confidential

parts. If the entire document is confidential, the agency is not required to produce the record. Under North Carolina General Statute 153A-148.1 and 160-208.1, records containing taxpayer income or gross receipt information are non-public. Records containing non-public information cannot be disclosed in response to public records requests without first redacting out the non-public information. Local government employees who disclose taxpayer income or gross receipt information in violation of the statute risk being fired and prosecuted for a criminal offense. This is very important. This is something that our staff takes seriously because we have to make sure that what we are sharing has been reviewed and redacted where necessary. Durham County options. This is specific to whatever we choose to do moving forward. Some research was done. I have sent you all some documents. If you don't have them, I will definitely resend, but there are some documents that I have acquired through research. Just wanted to make sure that you all are able to see some of the examples that exist out there. Um, in assessing the practices of neighboring counties, most are consistent with Durham County's current practices. Requests for public information are received and delivered through the public information office. However, Orange County keeps a version of minutes available online for public access currently. Also, there were multiple that utilize multiple other counties that utilized this method in the past but seemed to have discontinued the practice. Meaning, I was able to go online and find some years in the past where minutes were available online. Um, I made copies and have some examples for you all to consider if you were to choose to do so. Um, at least one neighboring county

video records Board of Equalization and Review meetings under the direction of public information department, meaning the public the public information department actually is responsible for those recordings. Um, manning the recordings and operating the And the legal department, the county attorney's office actually stores those Those recordings are not made available online for that particular county. Um, the next slide is specific to tax exemptions based on a few things that have been raised over

talked that go back to that side.

Certainly.

So, in terms of I think the issue of the minutes, that's also something that I know we have we have asked staff to look at that. And you know, to bring back to us some different options for us to consider. I know Kier, you've told said many times that you when anyone requests the minutes, you provide them. And you have provided them, but I know the issue of, you know, just having them as policy, um, just available on our website. I do I know that's something you're going to bring back to us. Is that right?

Yes, we and as a part of our benchmarking, that will be one of the example that will be one of the items that we'll bring back.

Okay.

And just to to to that briefly, um, and I'll be brief, I promise. The minutes are separate from the case files. All right, the case files are part of what the previous slide was about in regards to just making sure that there's a clear understanding in regards to how case files must be treated prior to to sharing. The minutes specifically have to be reviewed in the same way, but they are not as intense in regards to the case The case files one particular case file for a property appeal could have 100 pages. All right, that's one case file

that has to be reviewed to make sure each page has been cleaned or make sure that everything has been covered prior to sharing. The minutes are far less intense in regards to being able to review them, make sure that nothing that doesn't need to be included has been redacted. And that could be cleaned in a way that we could definitely provide um, for if the choice is made to house to have easy access online for minutes. Prior to any decision is being made, I just want to be clear. Minutes can be received right now. They have been shared. We've had requests for the minutes. We have already shared. We are continuing to get requests for minutes and we are still sharing. The case files are the only thing that we have been requested for that we have not shared yet. All right, so minutes and Board of Equalization and Review results, those have been shared.

And who takes the minutes at the at the BOER meetings?

The clerk to the board. The clerk to Board of Equalization and Review.

[panting] [laughter]

Oh, cuz I know I'm I mean, just to you had you had said that because of this appeals process that the Board of E O E A R B O E R there were several months where people they actually had to meet 3 days a week. Um from 10 to 4 or something like that. I'm just wondering who actually

[laughter]

was who who was staffing that and taking the the minutes?

So so the clerk to the board of equalization and review is the assessor. The assessor stands in as the clerk. Um that particular process is not the the Board of Equalization and Review is not responsible for recording the minutes.

That is our staff. Yep. Um and yes, to speak to your previous once there was once we did not have the ability to create a second board we spoke with the Board of Equalization and Review and I appreciate them for this particular sacrifice. They stepped up and went to 2 days a week and then eventually 3 days a week in an effort to try to get the appeals done. So um I really appreciate the board for that sacrifice. They they definitely worked. They increased their volume from 1 day a week to 3 days a week eventually and those are all 10 to 4 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. days. All right. Um this next slide is specific to tax exemptions. Um over the last few years there have been growing focus on the Blue Ridge tax exemption. In 2013 a North Carolina Court of Appeals case known as the Blue Ridge Housing of Bakersville LLC took place. And that of course was 13 years ago. Um the decision in that case allowed private develop developers to access a 1975 affordable housing tax break that was created to support properties used for child charitable purposes. Um private developers may partner with nonprofits to qualify for this program by sharing as little as 0.01% and keeping as much as 99.99% ownership with the nonprofit. As a result of the Blue Ridge's decision, approved applications for this exemption grew from six approvals in 2023. I believe it was 10 in 2024, 20 in 2025, and now 43 in uh 2026. During that time, the annual exempted value has grown from 77 million in '23 to 420 million in 2026. This is an area of the tax base we will continue to monitor as the applications are tracked each year. This is growing. This is growing, and it is a concern.

Um in comparison for Durham's size and the amount of parcels we have, 420 million is concerning. Approaching the 2029 reappraisal and for everybody wondering, this is the last slide, so you can feel free to feel free to get [clears throat] ready for any Q&A that that's remaining. Um approaching the 2029 reappraisal we will continue to evaluate market review processes so that information is gathered sooner and a wider range of independent resources are used. Um conduct further operational assessments to strengthen quality control and shorten processing times. Explore using multiple boards, as we've mentioned here a few times, to complete hearings before January delinquency date. Given the record number of appeals in 2025, appeals from the recent reappraisal were over 42% higher than in 2019. Um I believe 2019 barely crossed 7,000 appeals. With most of them happening near the appeal deadline, those last 3 weeks or so. Uh continue comparing the processes used in the 2019 and 2025 reappraisals to find what worked and what needs to change. Um conduct an independent review of the full reappraisal to identify improvements and efficiencies ahead of the 2029 reappraisal, which means we need to start doing that as soon as possible. We are 2 months away from getting started on the 2029 reappraisal. All right, that is the conclusion of the presentation. I am open for any remaining questions.

Commissioner Burton.

Yes, I'll make this quick. Thank you so much um for this presentation. And um I just want to say that I got a question um about the comment I made on October 12th about being confident in um

your work, Mr. Doyle, and I stand by that. Um I was going through my emails and looking at all the emails that you and ACM Brinson that you sent us with regards to this process. That was my first year on the Board of County Commissioners really keeping us informed [snorts] about this whole process. And um I want to go back to the slide about the importance of community outreach because um I did I wasn't on the board in 2021 where the School of Government UNC School of Government conducted a property tax study, and the study showed that homeowners in higher higher value properties in less racially diverse neighborhoods submitted property tax appeals at significantly higher rates. And I believe that the reason why we you can tell me if I'm wrong, but extended the deadline extended it further because we wanted to reach those populations to make sure this process was fair as much as possible, and those individuals got their appeal in. And um I also, you know, asked about all the outreach that you did with this and all the community groups that you visited. Um I believe you visited 23 places during this process. You were on in touch with Ms. Deborah Craig Ray. You did that in December of 2024. It was viewed 1,700 times, and you also went to many of these places at least more than once. And the word got out about how to do this process, how to appeal. You even came to my church for Deacons Day because I asked that you would come to because a lot of members of my church are seniors. Um they're on pensions to talk about this process so they would know about the process. So I really appreciate that and because of that we had in the low-income

home relief tax program this 2025 we had 818 people apply for assistance to the extent that it was depleted. The fund was depleted. And it before that only 542 applicants applied. That was in 2024. So we worked really hard um to get the word out to work really hard to make this process fair. Um Can we improve? Yes. That's why we're having this discussion. We want our residents to hear us. We want our residents know that we hear them particularly around commercial properties and make adjustments. So I just wanted to put that out there. I only have one question and I The question I have is on um October 12th when we had our regular session um on the consent agenda uh we um approved refunds and um releases for September 26th and a resident came before us to speak about that specifically around the Chesterfield building, Chesterfield LLC. And I know that resident went before the City Council to discuss that we gave the Chesterfield close to a million dollars. And I got a call well a resident reached out to me because that resident did a video and it was on social media. They were really um concerned about that. They want to know why did we do that as a county. So, I really I want you to explain and ACM Branson, you can I asked you this before. What is the difference between a release and a refund? And why did we do this for the Chesterfield? Um Did we give them this million dollars? Why did we do this? Things of that

nature because we want to make sure that our residents understand why this happened. So, thank you so much.

Um thank you for the question. I apologize for not being here on October 12th. Um ACM Branson um alerted me about this particular situation during the actual um session. The Chesterfield property received a historic exemption. The particular property was not in appeal of 2026. It was in appeal in 2025, but it was not in appeal of 2026. Um it it received a historic exemption and because of that exemption it's reduced 50%. Um that was not your doing. That's that's an exemption that particular property has and they've actually had it I think going back at least 6 years. Um that particular property received a 50% reduction in value taxable value. Their assessed value remains the same, but they get a 50% discount on the taxable value. So, what you saw was a release because the property the properties the property received the 50% reduction which gave them a release of the actual value that is to be exempted. Um so, that has nothing to do with the board. It ended up on your consent agenda or it ended up in our report because they appealed in 2026. That in 2025, that appeal wasn't heard until April of 26, but it was a 2025 appeal. So, when it was recorded, it came across as a board of equalization and review change, but it wasn't. That was a 2025 appeal. That was a 2026 exemption that was being added back to the property. So, the relief The difference between a release and a refund a refund is when I've paid my bill

and you refund me because I paid and some change takes place that encouraged me receiving a refund. Um a release, I haven't paid. So, there is no refund, but the value that was on the books is adjusted, which means that that value is reduced, which causes a re- a release. There's no refund or money being given back to me due to a release. It's the value being released. So, um I said it was a $500,000 value because of the historic exemption, it's reduced to $250,000 of taxable value. The assessed value stays the same. It's still appraised at $500,000, but it's taxable 50%. So, that's $250,000, which incurred a release of the value, not a refund.

And to just a bit When you say historic um you're saying it's designated as a historic building.

Correct.

Okay. I just want to be clear about that because that that wasn't really clear in what and um how it was being described. I want people to understand it's designated as a historic building, which gives it that 50% um deduction.

And that [clears throat] just for some perspective that some people don't know the Durham of 15, 20 years ago, when you know, we had many empty buildings in downtown downtown Those of us who've been here a long time know that we did not always have a vibrant downtown and so the city and the county were partners in many historic tax credit projects and that's why we saw the Chesterfield building get renovated the Unscripted Hotel the Durham Hotel 21C these were all public private partnerships and part of what made the

financing you know American Tobacco Historic District these are all based around one of the pieces that made that this affordable financing or financially viable was to do these historic tax credits and it also protected and preserved these buildings so I just want to give that perspective that I really appreciate you raising this Commissioner Burton and that it's it is shows that we need to be having more conversations so I appreciate you know residents raising these issues so that we can make sure that we are doing what we need to do to explain with the help of our staff what what it really means so thank you

And one thing I just like to add on that real quick is exemptions are a matter of state law exemptions must be there decided by the General Assembly it's not something that occurs at the county level in terms of eligibility it's a state law decision

And that is why on August 24th I said that a lot of this is state law right and you know that's why we have to really educate our residents and I and I'm glad we're having this discussion so we can inform our residents that we're doing whatever we need to do at the local level but we also have to understand a lot of these laws come from the General Assembly thank you so much

Vice Chair Burton

Thank you and to just dive into that a little bit deeper so to have that clarity piece. So, it is this historic property tax exemption that, you know, occurred 10 years ago. And that when a property receives that exemption, that exemption is essentially it's permanent, right? Like there's nothing and to your point, um Hirom, like nothing that the county can do to remove a historic property tax exemption, right?

Correct in regards to it is it stays in place. However, there are disqualifying acts that can cause it to come off and we have to reapply it. But if a transfer takes place, names change, things like that will kick the program. So, we need to keep a monitor We need to monitor those particular transactions and make sure we get it back on, which is what took place here.

And what are those type of like disqualifying factors?

Specifically, mainly transfers. Anytime names change, um I I think about a previous situation where it happened with a with a church. It wasn't historic, but it was an exemption. And the church is still a church, but the church had some ownership changes and in in that particular case, the church was unaware that that was a disqualifying act. So, the church lost its exemption. They had to reapply to get the exemption back. Um and it's just a matter of I hate to say it, but it's technicality. Any type of transfer takes place is considered a disqualifying act and it it does remove them from the program.

But the county doesn't necessarily have any authority of what it qualifies as a dis- um that disqualifying act. It's mandated by state. So, like the county couldn't come and say, "Well, this building, you know, it was historic back then, but it's making so much money now, so let's disqualify it."

Correct.

We don't have that authority.

Valentine.

[clears throat]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Doyle. Uh thank you for your presentation today. I was going to ask some questions about lessons learned. You sort of handled that uh at the end of your presentation, So, I I appreciate that as we look through uh look forward to 2029. And I thank you uh Commissioner Burton for um highlighting the level of engagement um during this unprecedented uh reappraisal period. Uh that can't uh be under or overstated. And so, I thank you for that. I also like to highlight that uh I had

the occasion on more than several occasions of actually uh sitting in at the Board of Equalization and review and and uh witness firsthand how these these hearings are conducted. But, my specific question goes back to uh the Board of Equalization reviews um ability to uh make independent decisions on appeals. You You mentioned that uh after the appeal period had ended, that there were additional appeals uh that were accepted by the board. Is that a practice? Is that somewhere in in law? Where Where does that rule come from? And does the the the uh board have the ability to put up some guardrails with regards to that question?

The The board has the ability to accept uh untimely appeal. Um what discretion they use, I'm not aware of limitations in regards to what the guardrails may be. Um I just know that the Department of Tax Administration does not have the authority to do so. Um we don't even have the We stray away from telling the property owner that because they missed a deadline, they can't appeal. We actually make sure that we tell them the law, you have a right to appeal, you have a right to take it before the board and appeal to your untimely submission. Um but, in regards to what discretion the board is required to use or not use, I am not aware.

Counselor, maybe we can run that to ground. I think that would be uh something that we could uh use as a decision point as we look to 2029 uh to ensure that there are some guardrails, if possible, that we can put in place.

Yeah, we can definitely look into that. I know by statute um the board has the Board of Equalization and Review has the

right to accept um untimely appeals. Now, I don't believe, and I'm going off of memory, I don't believe that the statute actually outlines the criteria for that, um but we can certainly look into it.

Yeah, that's a great question, so we'll definitely make sure that we look into what limitations may exist.

Commissioner Jacobs.

Well, again, I I want to thank uh everyone for this presentation. I think it's been really helpful. And I do appreciate all of the questions that we have gotten because it's really helps us to look deeper and understand um you know, how the process works and where where are the possible areas for improvement. So, I appreciate the last slide about approaching the 2029 uh reappraisal. And I'm just wondering in terms of that process, um cuz I know you're going to, you know, staff's going to be doing independent review, um coming back with uh some, you know, kind of lessons learned or proposals for how to strengthen the process moving forward. When Do you have a timeline for that? When do you think that would come back to us? And obviously, this is something that we'd want to share uh for with the city council as well. Um when when do you What do you think the timeline would be with for that?

Well, we have already started assessing what we have done, what we can do better um in regards to an external consultant or anyone providing any type of assistance in regards to overview and looking at what our processes are. Um we're we're ready at any moment. Um we do not have a consultant in contact right now, but we're we're

open to whoever you all suggest. We know a few options, but um we definitely want to make sure that we are open to multiple however many that um you all think would be sufficient. Um we're doing internal assessments ourselves, and we are looking at the last two to three reappraisals that we were a part of. Um we have a lot of people in our office that have been a part of multiple reappraisals. Um one of them sitting behind me. I have um another to my right. So, utilizing the resources we have within our office to kind of look internally at what we've done and what we could do better, as well as speaking to external sources. So, any any particular companies that are suggested, we would be open to. Um outside of that, we are definitely strengthening things in regards to our processes with respects to commercial approaches to things. Um I'll be coming to you a lot earlier in regards to RFPs to try to get the data a lot earlier. Um maybe even multiple sources. So, that's something that we kind of did last time. Um timing was is optimal. Um I believe I I began in my role 14 months prior to the reappraisal for a 2-year um task. Um thankfully, ACM Branson started things off in a good way. You all invested in new software. Um there were there definitely were um some support in a lot of things to aid us in that particular process. Um making sure that we do things a lot earlier this time around I think is the number one priority.

And Dwayne, you look like you're going to say something.

Just want to add real quick. We we did something a few years back and we're [clears throat] we're going to do it again as well, but we we are one of a a few counties in North Carolina that have been certified by the International Association of Assessing Officers as being a county of excellence with our

processes, policies. So, a few years ago we opened up our books, the system, the policies, procedures and took a a year-long project about 250-page document, sent it off to the International Association and after being graded by that association, we earned the certificate of excellence in assessment administration. That was a big achievement. It's back in 2021, I believe it was. So, we're looking to do something similar again, you know, on a on a different level, but similar again. But, I hope that shows the public, the board that we're we're always willing to open up things and you know, see what we can do better, see what we can improve cuz change can be good. So, we're willing to do this again and see where opportunities may exist.

Thank you. Yes, and I I do want to recognize too the number of staff that are certified, have certifications. I know that's something that you started, Dwayne, and and now has continued under your leadership, Kear, but we are um we have a very highly educated and skilled staff. So, I really want to also recognize it's not just you.

[laughter]

It's it's your whole team. Thank you.

Thank you.

I just had a quick comment. Um we will come back to the board within the next 2 months with clarification about the framework for what the external review will look like and what process we're in process of doing external reviews in other areas as well, but we'll have more specificity as far as RFP process and um, benchmark who has done that in other spaces and um, but we will come back to the board by January.

And I just have one quick follow-up. I know the biggest area of concern obviously was about the commercial

appeals and just um, will that be something that will be a focus of, you know, just moving forward, what information did do we need to try to have beforehand or what are ways that we can be more prepared in the future just you know, just focusing on that issue.

Yes, that is what I was speaking to when I said that um, I will be coming before you all with my RFPs very soon trying to get information in a lot earlier than last time. The timing is very important of when we receive the data so that we have time to process the data, review the data, process the data and actually get it into place. Schedule of values has to be constructed uh, roughly 6 months before '29. So, I'm making sure that we have the data going into '28 and ready to start constructing the schedule of values is very important. So, I know we say January 1st, 2029, but the work is being done well in advance of that particular date.

I had the um, two more questions and again these were ones that I sent in my email so if they're not I'm not even going to answer now. The market values when it came to the appeal process the values that like the property owners cuz I know we heard a lot about this, like the commercial property owners especially would come forward with as their evidence was like their rental income and like the their ability to have, you know, leased it so when the Board of Equalization and Review considered and even like tax administrative staff in like the pre um, appeal process and were they were we using the market values for rental income and vacancy or how did that get weighed against um the individual like the actual vacancy and rent that the commercial property owners shared for their individual

properties versus the market.

So, it would I would expect it would be different for each case. So, there are no one-size-fits-all. However, um in general our staff has data. We have market information. Some of that market information is what we purchase from a vendor. Some of that market information is what we're using day-to-day from our typical vendors that are built into the system. Um And then you have an appeal and that particular appellant gives you their data. So, you you're presented with data from different sources. Um all of that data is considered. So, it's not just one source. It's not just holistically taken one or the other, but all the data is reviewed. Um and I think in general just to keep it in context, when you're talking about market data um my home is my home. So, it's it's it's specific to me. But my value came from the market. When I appeal, I'm going to appeal and I'm going to come to you and I'm going to tell you what's different about my property that makes me feel like it should be taken into consideration in regards to any changes. I might come with pictures showing you the interior of my property. I'm trying to express that I think my depreciation is significant. I might show you some um some cracks in my slab. I might show you some depreciation issues. I might show you some some land issues. My value is market derived, but I just gave you my personal issues or my specific issues to my property. That's the same thing that happens with commercial properties. Commercial properties have market data in place, but then they present vacancies that are specific to that property. They might go into their rent rolls. They might go into any condition to their property, but they have the same

ability to show individual issues to their property as we do as residential property owners. And in that same case, I would not share the internal pictures of Attorney Hemingway's house when asked for evidence. I'm not going to show those pictures. I might in some way say that there was evidence presented that showed depreciation, but I'm not going to show his pictures. So, there are certain things that we look at for residential properties we don't look at with the same consideration for commercial property owners. They are treated the same. There are definitely some nuances and extra things to be considered because of the extra approach to value. And that extra approach to value is the income approach. Now, that same income approach can be used on single-family homes if those properties are being used for income. If I'm a If I'm a residential property owner, I live in my home that's owner-occupied, but I also own another home across town. I'm trying to be like ACM Brinson, multiple properties. If that's the case, then those other properties are rental properties and they can be used or assessed with the income approach. So, it's not just commercial versus residential. These things do correlate. It's just a matter of the income approach being looked at differently because the market was so drastic. We had sales that were very high, income that was brought down by vacancies and other issues. But, to answer your question, yes, definitely considered all the data that was presented. And I think certain terms like swapped data gave the impression that we took holistically data from a owner and completely took our data out of the system and replaced it with their data. That never happens for residential or

commercial. There can be components of evidence that are considered, but not holistically swapping out a line of data for another source.

I I'm a little confused then because I and like I and this is and I may just not be reading the statute right. I'm wondering like the way that it tells us that the county and like this assessor and the board of equalization is supposed to look at like the schedules and using the schedules of market vacancy and market um rental rate and that it's not supposed to use actual data.

In its place.

Okay, so in regards to what I just explained trying to show that differentiation between what's considered evidence. So, in general, the market is what is establishing these values. That's where the schedule of values comes into play. Those are principles and practices that were used or put in place prior to the reappraisal. It's approved by you all. It has 30 days to be challenged by the public. That is our practices and principles moving forward. All right? When people present appeals, residentially or commercially, they are presenting appeals and they are going to present what they believe are their issues that need to be considered. Same thing residentially and commercially. The evidence that they present can have things in there that are being considered parts of a whole, not the whole. So, I'm just explaining that we would never swap holistically evidence for our market data. Now, are there things that we consider? Yes, and if you were to ask me what was considered for each case, that would

require us to review each case to know exactly what was considered in this particular appeal versus this appeal and that appeal. To say holistically, I cannot speak to 9,000 appeals and what was done for each one.

Yeah, and I guess my question is more so about like cuz I get that, you know, they can present that evidence both of what's actually considered. Is that what I as I read it was that we should that that shouldn't be accepted in the evidence of like changing the valuation, the actual rent. Because it is should always be based on the market.

I believe if an appraiser is presenting something that drastically contradicts what they thought they had for a market data, they are considering it. Now, are they using exactly what was given to them? That's another question for I have to you have to review each appeal case-by-case basis. But what we're talking about is the appraiser's ability to use discretion in doing an opinion of value. So, they are creating an opinion of value, each appraiser.

And like cuz like the commercial property owner could bring their own data around like market values and market um rental income and all of that, but if they're bringing their individual data and using that as like their main evidence, then that like a property owner could have a vacancy rate, but the market doesn't show that everyone is having a similar trend.

So So, one thing that So, Mr. Doel and I both kind of grew up as commercial appraisers in tax. We have years of experience. One thing that we do is we go through and reconstruct the operating statement. It's a technical term. Basically, if the commercial owner comes in, they bring us all their stuff, we reconstruct it with market data. Um you know, a good example is that we can't we can't give a commercial owner

the benefit of having poor management on site. Right? If that if that's contributing to vacancy, if that's contributing collection loss, that's not a market action. But there are things within the property, within a commercial property, that can be considered for an adjustment. Um and I think that's what Mr. Doyle is getting to. So, there's a difference between using the the market data and then there being something within the property that that makes us do an adjustment to the property, that necessitates that adjustment. Outside of, okay, these kind of properties, uh the market data is 5% vacancy, right? 5% vacancy across the board. Can be things within the property that causes something different. And that's where we can make an adjustment, just like the residential properties.

All right. Well, uh thank you so much for this. We really appreciate it. I just want to just reinforce, if you don't know, that we are Durham County is blessed to have you leading the tax department and your staff. You know, you never back down from any question, any challenge, any issue of anything with this reevaluation or anything in general. And I know, you know, being elected officials, we know how hard it is to get feedback like like this. But you, um I just want to just let you know that we appreciate you. We appreciate your stamina in going all these things before the reevaluation happened, during it, and even now still you're sitting here and you're answering every single question. You're you're not backing down, and you are you're telling exactly what it is. Now, if people receive it or not, that's on

them, but you are you're providing facts. There's no um agenda here. You're just kind of putting it out there, and that's what we need, that a steady hand, that steady um temperament to describe very complex things that happen in the tax world. So, I just wanted to show I just wanted to just remind you how important you are, how how valued you are here in Durham County, especially, you know, from us sitting here on the dais. We deeply appreciate you, appreciate your work, and the stress levels that you deal with on a day-to-day basis. It's not an easy job, but we um we thank you. We thank you for everything that you do.

I appreciate that. Um I appreciate you all and the support. I appreciate ACM Brice and Attorney Hemingway for being here today. Um but, thank you very much, and we'll continue to do what we need to do to make sure 2019 is better.

Mhm.

All right.

And I just wanted to ask if the Board of Equalization review can meet before us. I don't know if that can happen or not or

We can coordinate a time that they can meet at some point in the future.

Okay. Uh Go ahead.

I also just want to thank you um chair for what you just said. And I had the opportunity to experience three reappraisals in 2016, 2019, and then in 2025. And nobody, and I know, Dwayne, you did a great job, but Kiyana, the way that you did go out into the community, we have never done that before. 40 different uh events, and all the groups that you spoke to. And you know, But, just the time that you

took to try to make sure that people understood um you know, you're from Durham and so I just the way that you speak to people these are very intimidating complex issues and you have I just want to echo what everyone else has said. Every single email you respond within 24 hours and just the the transparency, the responsiveness and above that you come to all of our meetings. So we are we are really grateful to you and to all of your staff. Thank you.

Yeah, I was just about to say I was put in a position by ACM Branson to be able to continue where he started. I have a great team that supports me. Thank you Teresa Harrison for sticking through this whole night. She's been sitting back there quiet.

[laughter]

But um yes, she does. She does. Um but definitely the staff the staff worked very hard for this 2025 reappraisal. I know it kind of doesn't get spoken to a lot, but um they had to go through those 10,533 appeals. Um they had to coordinate with the Board of Equalization and Review to get that done and all while carrying out those appeals we still had regular day-to-day work to do. So there's a lot of work that went into the last three to four years. The next two years and what two months are ahead of us to get 2029 done. So I definitely want to make sure that we take every opportunity that you all want to provide in regards to providing consultants, assessments, anything you all can provide or would like to do to make sure that whatever errors or suggestions that come out of we take them serious and make sure that we use them for 2029. Thank you all for the comments and questions tonight.

Thank you. Thank you all. All the next item on our agenda are the boards and commissions appointments. Attorney Williamson.

Okay, we have um some appointments here. The first one with the Durham Open Space and Trails Commission, we have one vacant position. The board has selected Dave Connolly. For the Durham Racial Equity Commission, we have one vacant position and the board has selected Sunsieria Thompson. For the Juvenile Crime Prevention Council, we have one vacant position and the board has selected Ezra Green. Congratulations to all who have been appointed.

All right. There were no items pulled from the consent agenda. So, I will accept a motion to adjourn.

Chair, make a motion that we adjourn.

Second. It's been moved and properly seconded that we adjourn. Any further discussion? All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, please use the same sign. We are adjourned. Thank you.