Environmental Advisory Board Meeting

So, I can do the timer, but I don't think anyone's going to show up cuz we didn't say anything. No. I go there.

p.m. call this meeting to order of the environmental advisory board.

Ready for another happy meeting?

I am always a happy meeting. Uh first item on the agenda is to the minutes from last meeting. Do I have a motion on the floor? I'll move.

Do I have a second?

Thank you. Any any discussion or changes from those meeting minutes?

Okay. Thank you. Up here. Nor has put a where it's up here.

Oh, need a vote. I'm sorry. All [snorts] those that are in favor of approving minutes from last month say I. I.

I. Thank you.

I'm abstaining. Neither abstaining.

Yeah. Thank you. The uh we also have a public comment section now and we'll if anyone has public comments they want to add or a sheet that allow you to sign up for it.

And no signups tonight.

No signups tonight. Thank you.

Any council member comments they'd like to present at this time?

Yeah. Hey guys, how's it going? Is that all?

Yeah. [laughter] No, listen. Uh, so we had one council meeting uh since our last meeting. I told you I'd report back. I believe the one we had didn't go to EAB, so it's not applicable on that one. But I do plan to spend this time on future meetings letting you know how the reason you saw uh resolve the council. Uh we also had a meeting me and the chair and the vice chair about uh some ways forward to to get to the place where we're voting directly on the merits of resoning. And there was some disagreement. Um, I would say process-wise how that could happen between me and the staff and the lawyers and the lawyers talk to me and lawyers think we need to make some sort of UDO change before you guys can officially vote. And also may come down to exactly what you're voting on and how that's uh worded. you know, whether it's a vote

for an approval of the recommending approval of the whole reasonzoning might pull in certain legislative conditions that were required as a body to consider or if it's more narrow approval of the conditions that are presented or something like that was kind of my response. Maybe it's a more narrow discussion about particularly the environmental conditions. Are you satisfied what's been profered uh in this project to mitigate whatever risks are on the site? Um, so we're still working through that and I know we have something on the business server related, but it could it could tie to that later. So that's where we're at and I'll keep you guys up to date and um see where that goes. Thank you.

Thank you. Any staff announcements?

Um, yes, a couple. So we just heard we have two new sections on the agenda. So moving forward, we will have a public comment period which as it says for the public. Um, so people will come, they have three minutes to speak as an individual, and then if you're representing a group, you'll have nine minutes to speak. Um, and then we have the council member comment section, which we just talked about. And next announcement is, um, board members, you may have noticed that I sent a link to the all in Apex newsletter to your email. Um, we just wanted to send that as staff to make sure that you guys are signed up. It's super informative. Um, if you want information about everything and anything going on in town, definitely sign up for it. Um, and we actually have some environmental programs that are going to be advertised in the newsletter. Um, Apex is participating in Creek Week this, uh, upcoming March, which is a regional event. Um, and we're super excited. We've got some creek and storm water themed environmental programs that we're going to advertise in the all in Apex. So, make sure you're signed up. [snorts] And that's it from here. Thank you, Nora. Next order of business is reszoning case 25 Charlie Zulu 24. This is the North Salem Street mixed use.

Good evening. Matthew Carpenter with Parker Poe, 301 Fateville Street. here this evening on behalf of the developer Merit Group. We've also got I've also got Bob Zumwalt with uh Kimley Horn with me tonight. He's our landscape architect and we'll also be available for questions. I'll give you a quick overview of the case um and then go through the environmental commitments we've included in the the worksheet and the application um and then we'll be happy to hear your recommendations. The site is a 32.3 acre site just south of US64 at the corner of North Salem Street in All-Wheel Drive. Um you can see it's several different parcels outlined in yellow. Um this is really one of the the last large tracks left fairly close to downtown Apex. Um and you can see some of the adjacent uses. To the north we've got Crossroads Ford of Apex. to the west we've got Haden Hall. Um and then you know a different part of Haden Hall to the south. Across the street is Thal's Academy. Um and so this is a very important area and something that um I think staff has been looking at for potential development a long time. There have been a number of uh folks that talked to staff, but this is really the first developer to move forward with a a reszoning case. Um, so the current zoning here is residential, agricultural, uh, and rural residential. And then there's a tiny section that's planned, commercial, uh, you can barely even see it on the, um, slide, but it's it's labeled there as PCC. And then the proposed zoning is planned unit development. Um, it's similar to to a lot of cases that y'all review where we're asking for PUD approval. Um, PUD process obviously is uh is is different than a regular conditional reszoning because we have maps uh and concept plans and also a PUD text document that sets forth the conditions that are applicable to the site. Um, and so sometimes you see puts in apex for uh

single family subdivisions or smaller cases, but I think you this is really the type of project, as I'll get to in a moment, where a putt is helpful because we've got um a mix of residential and commercial uses and housing types. The land use map here is mixed use. So you can see wherever you see that uh you know angled striping and apex, it means that it's a mixeduse area. Um and the different stripes obviously have different meanings. Here we have uh the orange is highdensity residential. The Korean color is medium density residential. The blue is office institutional or office employment rather. And then the red is commercial services. And so you can see with the striping around 64 that the land use map views this area um for intense development things like you know ver a vertical mix of uses uh a mix of of multif family and potential town homes and then single family to the south. Um you can see that the orange stripe striping is sort of uh focused at the intersection of all-wheel drive and and North Salem Street. The idea and and we've talked to staff about this generally in the land use map is that density, you know, the most dense housing will be located at the intersection and then transition down as you move to the the existing neighborhoods. Um, so we spent a lot of time even before we filed this case on trying to develop our concept plan uh and a concept plan that honors what what's shown on the land use map. Um, so this slide is just to show uh since it was hard to see on on the last screen and I know uh it's important to you all the um the the pond that's that's on the site and then the stream to the south of it. So we have had a jurisdictional determination. Um the pond is jurisdictional. I have a 50- foot buffer and we'll be keeping the pond as I'll get to in a moment. Um and then obviously the the stream south of

the pond will be buffered. Um this is our our concept plan. So we we filed this case December 1st. We got staff comments back middle of January and then we resubmitted February 1st or the first business day of February. And so this is the most recent version of our concept plan. We've had one round of staff comments. Um you can see that we've tried to concentrate the the higher density areas at the intersection of all-wheel drive um and North Salem Street as the land use map recommends. We've got the different districts caught out. MU1 is the non-residential and multif family district. So we envision um apartments there with with some groundf flooror retail and commercial. Uh and then when you move to the the west there's an MF3 district which is some some multif family but without the commercial component. Um and then when you move south on the site the um density and intensity changes significantly. MR2 is is meant to the orange district is meant to be sort of a transition area where um we may have a mix of town homes and apartments. And then the yellow area uh is is town homes and and that's the area um where there was medium density was the recommendation on the land map which is around seven units an acre is that recommendation and so uh we're coming in right around that in the area shown in yellow. Um obviously you can see the the large green area around the pond. Um we we're saving the pond and then uh a lot of our RCA and open space will be around that pond. Um it makes sense for for several different reasons because number one it's jurisdictional but also to provide the transition to to Haden Hall um to the west. So we think the the layout makes a lot of sense. Um we're still working through some some issues with staff on uh traffic, working through the TIA comments. I know that's not exactly your purview, but it does

impact things. Um, and so there there are still more changes as we we move through the review. Um, in terms of proposed environmental conditions, I've tried to break them out into the apartments and uh and the town homes. So, uh, some of these are are common ones. One sign per sem waste and prohibit fertilizer. 70% of landscaping will be native species. No single species will constitute more than 20% of the plant material. Um the existing pond will be preserved. We've widened the perimeter buffers to the west and south from I believe 15 foot buffers are required under the UDO and we've widened that to 20 ft. Um signage adjacent to wooded or natural areas and then the the apartment buildings will have a green building certification. Um, and there's a that that's not the full language of the condition, but the condition lists the different potential um possible certifications. And then for town homes, um, all units will have a 220 volt outlet to the ex exterior for EV charging, at least four wet PET way stations. Um, and then again, we've widened the buffers. I have this one on this slide because the the buffer to the south is along the town home portion. Um, and then just a couple other things to touch on. Uh, in December, I believe mid December, a neighbor sent us a video of a bald eagle on the site. Um, and so we hired a consultant at the beginning of January as quickly as we could uh to do an endangered species study of the site. Um, they completed that report. They didn't find any endangered species on the site or an eagle nest. Um, you know, they they noted the locations of different nests uh at Jordan Lake and and other surrounding areas and concluded that the eagle was likely feeding on site because there's a pond. Um, but we did want to take that seriously. We didn't, you know, we

wanted to know if there was a nest out there that we needed to uh account for in our permitting and planning and so we we went ahead and had that done. So, um, with that, we're happy to answer any questions.

Yeah, sure. Bob has one one thing to mention.

Hey, Bob is on camp. Just want to mention one thing. There's a 65 in willow oak at the south edge of the site and we're going to preserve that and incorporate it into a pocket park

that was on the right.

So, building off your comment just now, what percentage of trees are you preserving on the plot?

So, we we don't have a separate uh tree save condition. I believe the RCA requirement is 20%. Is that right, Bob? Yeah. So, uh, you can see that some of the site is wooded, but but there are several houses and then there open fields and yards. Um, and so I think we'll we'll keep as many trees as we can to meet the RCA requirement. Uh, obviously a lot of the trees in the the most dense area at the intersection will come down. Um, but especially the trees on along the, you know, in the southwestern portion there will likely remain. So,

is there an intent to have uh common areas or or some sort of management company handling?

Yes. Yeah. So, so there will likely be um an HOA for the town home community and then the apartments will probably be owned by, you know, typically by one owner that that manages the apartment complex. And so, uh Bob, are we thinking that the the the pond will be part of the town home HOA right now? I mean, we don't know that yet, but I think we want to incorporate it into the amenity package with walking trails and things. So, I'm not sure if it will be part of the apartments or the town.

Well, I'm I'm sort of wondering who's going to be maintaining that and ensuring that

the signs are up and the right way stations are maintained and things like that.

Yeah, it'll it'll either it will either be if it I mean it'll have to be platted

on one in one section or the other. So, either the HOA will own it and maintain it or the apartment owner will it'll be on the apartment piece and and have to they'll have to own and maintain it. Um, and or some combination, you know, I don't we probably want to avoid that just thinking out loud. But, um, but yeah, that that's that's more of a a site plan issue, but I do think uh you know, we can you know, I I think that it will be maintained by one or the other. you know, and there are incentives built in to do that, right? Um,

so going back to the trees, I stopped counting at 150 dots on your tree study. So there were there are a substantial number of very largeiz trees. So you don't have

what is the strategy to offset that loss of those trees because most of them did look like they're going to be within the construction limits. Right. Again, we we so right now the RCA is the only condition. Um we're happy to evaluate some sort of you know replanting condition if that's the board's recommendation. Um but we don't have a specific condition today to address that. Um and then with regard to the willow oak um on the previous is that an accurate depiction of the extent of the canopy in relation to where the

the little park is.

Okay.

That is the survey location and that is the root zone protection area around it.

That is the root zone protection area that extends a little bit off the green.

Right. it. That's just a conceptual box. We won't be able to do anything within the drip line of that tree. So,

okay. But you're only going to the drip line.

We'll go to whatever Apex requires that we protect. It's either one for one or one and a quarter for one, I believe. But what we have a decent size park that

we think is going to go in that area and so the plan is that it will be incorporated and saved.

Okay.

Yeah. And what about is that just a conceptual blip where the um proposed culde-sac nicks the RCA area?

Uh I mean where we go through the

on the western side. Yeah.

Where Yeah.

Go ahead. Where we go through the buffer? Yeah. We would we would obviously cut the trees down to build the coals. Is that what you mean?

Well, it looks like like

Yeah. So, so that that's a cross access connection that is required under the UDO.

No, I'm talking about the cula stack up there at the top near the north

the top left.

Yes.

Yeah, I am too.

Okay.

So, so the UDO requires us to connect to existing substrates. What we've proposed instead of that is a culde-sac. Um, and that's why it's shown that way. But, but to do that, we have to write that into our PUD because it is modifying the the UDO requirement. Um and part of that condition in the putt text is that there will be a pedestrian connection from uh Charlie and Downs Lane into the site, you know, around the recreation area and the pond. Um so there there has to be pedestrian connectivity. Uh but we are proposing and partially because of the future extension of all-wheel drive. Um you know, we thought that that it didn't make sense for another connection here and you know, staff has staff has been open to that. I don't think they've taken a a final stance on it, but we've been talking through that a bit.

Um, so in the commercial space, are you anticipating a grocery store?

Uh, no, we're we're not there. There are not plans for a grocery store. Um, that is a use that's permitted in the the PUD text. Uh, simply because, you know, we try when we're there's been this huge push in in Apex for non-residential areas um for the tax base and just as amenities to residents. And so when we have a someone bringing a non-residential case, you we try to

think of of of potential uses that could go there that might not be part of the plan now, but that would be um that would be an effective use there. Obviously, the site isn't laid out and and you know, what we're proposing wouldn't permit a a Harris ter with a big parking lot because we you know, we only have um non-residential permitted in the red area MU1. Could there be some sort of small grocery store potentially? And that's what we wanted to leave leave the door open for.

So would you characterize this as sort of a car dependent development?

Um maybe in the sense that every development in Apex is car dependent, but I think that there will be more walkability here uh than than a lot of other projects in Apex. Um and and we're also talking about uh bus service and how that interacts with our our property frontage with with transportation staff. So that that's an ongoing discussion too. Um because there's a an existing bus stop at Crossroads Ford. Um and could we in some way integrate that with our site? We're having those discussions.

Is that a sheltered bus stop?

Um the existing stop

I don't think so. No.

Any benches

uh at Crossroads Ford? Uh no.

So it's just a sign. Okay.

Um,

today,

but but there's service here.

Yeah.

I mean, I would say as far as Apex goes, this is probably one of the more walkable communities to be honest because there's going to be vertical integration, apartments, town homes, and it's

open space.

You could probably walk to downtown 15 minutes.

Yeah.

Sidewalk the whole way from downtown to here. Uh there there might be

I don't think

it's close. It's close. I don't know off the top of my head.

But you definitely have to take your car to the grocery store. [laughter]

Yes.

Or to Costco. I mean it which is very

unfortunate because you know this is the gateway a gateway to Apex and on a major transportation corridor. I just I think the the with the grocery store comes 250 surface parking stalls. So I would think this is a better gateway to downtown to see vertically integrated nice looking buildings, walkable. Yeah.

Yeah. There have to be there have to be iterative steps, right? I mean we can't create an urban downtown, you know, from one site. And so the the idea is that this is an iterative iterative step in the right direction. So,

um, and I noticed you had a few headwater wetland areas. All those are going to be filled in.

That's right. I think the Well, not all of them. No, there's there's four. Yeah. You want to talk about that?

There's three of them that are kind of in that field here.

Yeah.

What?

Uh, and those I think the grand total of all of them combined is about 12 or 14,000 square feet. So,

Okay.

Yeah. So those would we would impact those permit and impact those.

And is there another pond above that one you're going to keep?

Yeah, there is a small one.

There is a pond there in the in the channel between them that how did that rate as a stream?

It's not a stream.

Only stream is the one that comes out of the big pond there.

South.

Yeah.

And did I hear you correctly? You don't anticipate putting in any wet pet waste stations at the apartments?

No. No. I I Well, that may have been how the slide was written. The condition I believe that we but we checked the form and I think we added some text under that section that said there will be four across the site. Um, and we don't know exactly where those will be, but but no, we we we think that there will be some um at least one in the non-residential area and by the apartments. Um, but they need to be placed strategically because we don't

want them, you know, in front of all the retail along the street either. So, you know, we're trying to be mindful of of the um leasing ability of that commercial space because it's very delicate and and very difficult sometimes to lease, you know, commercial spaces integrated with with, uh, apartments above it. And so, um, the developer here has a lot of experience doing that. And so, uh, they wanted to be careful with the condition of, you know, we we 100% want the waste to be in the right place, but we just want to be mindful of exactly where they're going to be. So, you're looking at a total of four for the whole project. Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, that's what we have in the form. Um, yeah,

I was a little confused on that.

Yeah.

So, when fully occupied, how many people are possibly living there?

How many people

units?

Um, units.

So, the unit counts. I can give you the maximums that we have now.

Um, yes. Thanks, John.

Oh, thank you, uh, Bruce.

That's right. So, we have we have 450 total units, uh, a max of 250 multif family and 200 town homes.

I think we need more pet stations.

Yeah. [laughter] [clears throat] Are there any other questions, please, gentlemen?

Yeah. Are we going to go back to the pond? Did you intend to talk more about the pond or

We can right now.

Okay, let's do that. [clears throat] Um I noticed I believe you said you'd meet the 10year storm water. You're not looking for 25.

So, actually, I looked at this today. I

believe because of where the site is located, we have to do the the 25. Is that accurate?

About that, I'm sorry.

Yeah, it says that we're in the um upper Beaver Creek.

Jeff gave us the thumbs up.

Yeah, the upper upper Beaver Creek basin. And so, uh the UDO here, I believe, requires the 25, which is why I didn't check the box because we wouldn't be, you know, upping the requirement if we go with the 25. We can't do this.

I didn't realize that. Um, okay. So, you're going to will you be rebuilding the dam on this pond? And my question was, I guess that's a big pond.

Yeah.

And why I wanted to go towards the 25-y year or even 100year if we rebuilt that pond to use it as a retention pond. Also,

if that's possible,

I think we're not using it right now. Right.

We're not using it for retention. We they'll evaluate the dam to make sure it's safe.

But I've been doing this 30 years, and I've not successfully seen you be able to drain a pond, let it dry out, and not have wetlands in the bottom, and then you're not allowed to put a you're not allowed to use it for storm water. So, god forbid you use the lowest spot that already holds water, [laughter] but you can't. You really

That's absolutely insane.

It know,

right?

And that's too bad. [clears throat] Some time ago when I was on the council, I was trying to push for at least one of these ponds. They're so dang shallow to drain it down and and and dig them out some somewhat because I I even look at Lake Pine over here. If you look at it, you can wait across about twothirds of it. That's how shallow that thing is. and it's filling in with reads and stuff now, which I I look at the long-term quality of the pond. And what you're saying is you can't do it. I was going to try to hammer you to do it quite frankly. Uh to to to drain it and and clean it out, although you could get a hell of a

backhoe there and, you know, dig it out while it's still wet.

All right. I guess we can't do that. Um although back back to the uh way stations. Um it's a item or issue 27 goal, whatever it is. Um it uh our goal is is one way station for 25 residential units or town homes.

So that that one says sing if single family, which is why I didn't fill that one out. Um 27.

I Well, it

Well, it talks about residential units towns.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And that's fine. We can certainly use that one. I just that's why I didn't check it in the form and we use the other standard and said

and for if you're having one apartment building up there what MU1 uh

right

two way stations there at the apartment building space somewhere that's amanable to commercial and residential

right okay yeah

what I would recommend

okay

that we adopt 27

also uh the town home areas and and I guess the grass areas too. Uh the apartment area. I would like to see the project use warm season grasses. Uh that would be goal number 20 and I would ask that that be used. [snorts] I have a few to add to the list. Um, I

would like to add number 10, which is the tree replacement, replacing large type trees. It does look like you do have some open space in that RCA area where there could be an opportunity to install additional tree canopy um, just because of the history of land use there. Um, let's see. Not sure if it'll end up being applicable to you, but number two as well, no lane clearing or disturbance shall be permitted within the riparian buffer. I would also like to strike from that one um greenway and so except for the minimum necessary to install required sewer infrastructure. Um, number 13 board they have 70% native vegetation. I was thinking 75 would be appropriate. Um, also and maybe the board needs to um have some discussion about these uh two additional ones that are not the standards. The covenants shall not prohibit properly maintained pollinator habitats and naturalistic landscapes on the lots or in the common areas. Um, and a minimum of one public transit stop shall be provided within the development and shall include a shelter with benches. Can you remind me what number the pollinator species?

Oh, that that one is that's brand new. [laughter]

Okay.

Oh, okay. Okay. That's okay.

I'll trust Nor to get that one. Get that down.

Nor, [laughter] if you need me to send you the language, I can do that. Any other recommendations?

Uh, number 22, I see you said you should provide five additional feet of buffer width that is required by the UDO. And then I look back says along the west side of North Salem, it's going to be a 10-ft buffer. So the the buff the wider buffers are from between this site and the existing residential

which is along the western and southern parameters which is your 20 foot type B.

That's right.

Yeah. the the buffer on North Salem Street has been we're we're discussing that with staff too because you know in some ways staff has instructed us that this should be a more of an urban area more walkability buildings closer to the street and then the UDO I believe would require a 30foot thoroughfare buffer along North Salem Street and so those two things you know don't really coexist and we're trying to again push the residential density closer to Salem Street and away from the existing single family. Um, and so the the buffer on North Salem Street is an ongoing discussion.

Yeah, I I recall the 30 ft from before type e buffer, which is a telephone call everyundred feet.

Right. Right. We've got a um we're working with staff and they've asked us to provide some cross-sections to show them what street

all-wheel drive and Salem Street will look like once we get the widening we're doing plus the parking strip between the sidewalk and the street side trail and you know so there's a 10-ft trail on both of those streets and then the buffer and how does the building sit in relation to that. So we're working through that. They would prefer we don't plant out the retail frontage. They want they'd like to keep the view open into the site, which I think helps the retail. Um, but in our next submitt, we we will have those sections in the submittal. If you're interested in see

and I agree with you on the retail, but where the uh town homes are,

so the town homes are uh we've got a condition that says all the town homes in T4 will face Salem Street. They'll be pushed up to the street, have porches, and the alley will feed them from the back. So, it'll it'll kind of try to continue that streetscape rather than turning the back of the units to the to the street,

but you still have 10 foot buffer there.

Yeah, that's right.

Um,

so you have a 10-ft buffer.

I disagree with 10 foot buffer. Sorry.

Well, you have a 10-ft buffer and then you have a 10ft front yard setback on the lot. So the front of the house, the closest it could be to the rideway is, you know, here to the close to the wall back here, 20 ft.

And it I think I think that feels

I to me everybody has a different feel. I I

wouldn't live here, but there are a lot of people who would. I mean, it's

Yeah,

it's kind of that urban feel real. You know, I'd love to be able to walk downtown to be honest with you.

I agree with the walk downtown. We all are in agreement with that. But 10 feet I I would want to see 30 feet somehow. You know, I go when I when I go to the airport and I go down uh into Morrisville and I see these pieces that are built. Now, these are apartments. Of course, they're but ugly four stories. It's It's not quite like town homes, but nevertheless, I like the urb I I I like the country feel myself. That's why I came here originally. Um and and I'd like to keep it. And I I just think a 10-ft type BB buffer doesn't do it. Besides that, we're all going to probably be dead before these damn things become BB buffers, you know? Really, realistically. I I see some of those people [laughter] be buffers.

So ju just if I could build on that bill just so I can get sort of a mental picture. So on um 1010 you have the

Myrtle Grove I think is the street and you have the town you have a sidewalk and then the town homes. Is it like that type of distance are we talking about?

I believe so. I don't know what that distance is off the top of my head, but um the idea is for there to be a pedestrianoriented sidewalk, streetscape pass going to the front doors of of these town homes,

like the groves.

That's right. Yeah. Um and and that was that was the the front

the North Salem Street facing town homes. That was a suggestion of staff, too. And so then we we thought well you know does it make sense to have pedestrian town homes oriented town homes facing the street and then a 30-foot buffer. Um and so that so we're trying to work out that section. Also if there is some sort of uh transit stop along the frontage you don't want that to be separated by a wide buffer either. So um those are all things we're balancing in in the concept plan and trying to work through. So

adding I See, I I dis I still disagree. A 30 foot to me a 30 foot buffer is I mean from here to you is 20 feet.

Right.

Right. So we're we're not talking about

huge expanses.

Yeah.

And and the downside is obviously you're going to lose one row of town homes and that's I know I understand the economics that you don't want to see. But to me, it's I don't know what those people do in the groves if they sit out in their front porch and watch [laughter]

traffic go by on 1010.

Well, then maybe we should recommend, you know, cruising

it. [clears throat] Go out straight back. Yeah.

Want to get it back.

Um Yeah, it's um Of course, it may not be much longer when they underneath [laughter] when they

when they widen it, right? Yeah.

So, [clears throat] it's um

Well, so it's Yeah, I know. I had it open and now it looked really good.

Yeah,

it was.

Let's see. Where am I

inside? Interior.

It is interior. Yeah. Pull my little guy out.

You got time.

No pressure. I know it is tremendous. I know. [laughter]

Y'all can pull up Google Maps.

Talk amongst yourselves.

I can't get it. I'll just drive out 1010. You'll see. [laughter]

Are there other recommendations from the board?

Bill's recommendation.

I'd like to recommend the 30k. the all-wheel drive, you know, I don't know. It's it's off to the side. It's kind of within the development. And if you're going to do a 10- foot wide type A buffer, you're almost talking something like Wayland Cyprus. Well, so keep in mind from from the edge of TH4 north, the streetscape will be apartments with retail on the ground floor.

Yeah.

And so it I think it definitely makes sense there. Now, you know, the the town homes maybe uh that's a different discussion, but

and I'm good with that. I

Yeah. And the the part of what we were worried about was the jog. Like if we were to to have that pedestrianoriented streetscape uh along the multif family and then once you've got to the town homes on North Salem, all of a sudden it jogs and then you have houses with backyards to the you know it it would be an odd development pattern.

Yeah, I could see I could see facing them towards Salem certainly. Um

but it's an awful short distance from you to me.

Yeah. Y

that's my problem. Yep.

All right. Any other

I Yeah, if I don't mind. If you don't I' I'd like to get into the solar business, of course.

Um

I was almost disappointed. [laughter]

I'm not going to disappoint you. [laughter]

I guess that's 36 on this thing in clean energy. What I would recommend, um I know this is a recommendation. I've learned about recommendations. They don't go far sometimes, most of the time, but that's neither here nor there. Okay. So, I've reduced my my request just hopefully that we can be somewhere in the middle.

And I and I didn't know how many town homes there were at the time I did this. You said there's 200, so I could change that to 12. I'd like to see 6% or 12 of the town homes uh have 3.6 6 kilowatt solar PV installations.

Okay.

And I'd like to have one home of those shall have solar PV installed before 50% of the building permits are issued. And we've talked about this before. It's the penguin theory. We know what the penguin theory is now. You don't. You haven't been here. Well, the penguin theory is where [snorts] a whole bunch of penguins get next to a on an ice flow next to the ocean and every penguin's waiting for the other poor sucker to jump in and once he jumps in and everything goes good, then they all jump in. And that's the penguin theory and that's kind of what happens with solar. If people actually see it on houses, they get it. they they do also. So, um the CCNRs for the development shall not prohibit individual solar PV installations. And the last one is on the on the commercial and um I I tried to write this up while I was here. solar PV

installations on commercial and high density rental housing shall have she'll she'll be sized to provide 80% of the electrical energy for the common area just for I I know you can't do it hardly at all for the individual apartments but just for the common area and if that bothers you too much I can reduce it to 50% right now because I'm in a weak position deal. [laughter]

Okay, we'll do 50%. [snorts] We'll change that to 50. And the deal is then you'll do it.

I would do it right now, Bill, if I could.

I'll uh but but I will talk to the developer about it. And um

Okay.

And try to come up with something creative. So,

I'd appreciate that. And I will give this to staff

as I kind of wrote it up.

Other questions or recommendations? board. Okay. So at this time I the recommendations we have has deal with item 27 20110 2 and 13 up to 75% pollinators and a bus stop plus the uh 30 foot buffer 12 to 6% of PV systems and 50% solar on the common area

and the 30 foot is in front of the town homes

plus the ones you already had marked

not to push you into the retail.

I'm sorry. Plus the ones you already had marked would be included. Do I have a motion for moving forward with these recommendations?

I'll make the motion. Do

I have a second?

Second.

Okay. For holding, show of hands. I

I

oppose. You let the record reflect. I'm

recusing myself from this vote.

Oh,

okay John.

Okay, John. Appreciate your time.

Thank you, Matthew.

At this point, we are looking at resoning case 25, Charlie Zulu 21, T the Teeter property. ter.

Thank you, Nora.

Good evening, everybody. My name is Patrick Kieran, Jones and Canson Engineering. Um, and I'm here to discuss this Teeter property resoning on Holland Road, uh, 2728 Holland Road. The site is just over the EAB threshold of 10 acres. Um, so obviously here we are. This is my only slide um to really show because I try to pack everything in. This is not a plan unit development. So we don't have a plethora of information to give you guys. It's it's pretty straightforward. Um, a little bit of context on the site. The only access into the site is through the existing Holland Farm neighborhood. Um, so that's obviously one of the main components that we're working through with the neighborhood um, adjacent to us. There's been early talks about merging HOAs with Holland Farm. Um, that's been an open conversation so far. Um, but because of that, we're we're bound, as you can kind of just visually see on this on this exhibit, we're bound by a lot of environmental features on the west side of the property. Um, which also is the kind of the wider end of the property. Um, so usable land is what's sort of in the white area here and there's just not a lot compared to the

10 acres that we have on site. Um, so because of that, our density is really very low. We're proposing medium density. Um, because that lines up with the land use map, talked to planning and that was their recommendation. Realistically, we're only able to achieve a total of 13 single family homes by matching similar home sizes to Holland Farm. that equates to a 1.3 unit peracre density which is actually on the low end of what low density would be. Um so you know we had that discussion with planning would it be better to propose this as a low density conditional change the land use map or since all the surrounding neighborhoods are all technically medium density that was the way this um proceeded. So I wanted to give you that context because obviously the the land that we have to work with is very limited. Um, I went through, you know, I have I have obviously the uh the application that we sent in that has all the numbered conditions. Um, since I know that's what you guys are all looking at as well, but I've got my own list here of sort of what I flagged as our EAB conditions. Um, so required RCA in this basin would be 25% 30% if masqueraded. We are starting out with a lower end of 35% RCA would be provided on this site, 40% if masqueraded. So an additional 10% from the UDO requirement. Um I don't currently have any tree preservation conditions listed specifically, but the two go hand in hand. Um the site is almost completely wooded, if not completely wooded. Um, so obviously all the area to the west that we would be saving would also equate to tree preservation. Um, so wanted to speak on that real quick and you know we can we can always talk to staff and see if you know if the board's recommendation is to add verbiage regarding tree preservation specifically so that there's no question

about RCA being graded and then replanted you know we can we can certainly visit that. I think that is achievable. um you know a lot of the other standard um items we are offering signage uh provided in HOA HOA areas surrounding SCMs pollinator friendly and native flora within those SCM planting areas 75% of plant species used in the landscape design native to eastern US um no single species or vegetation shall constitute more than 20% of the plant material um perimeter buffers SCMs and other HOA areas is may be planted with clover or warm seasoned grasses, not to be restricted by any covenants. Um, we are proposing a minimum of one pet uh pet waist station for the 13 single family homes. Um, no restriction. Oh, that's an affordability one. Sorry, that's why I didn't highlight that. Um, Bill, I know we can speak to this in a second, but we are proposing solar conduit and each each one of the homes uh to facilitate future rooftop solar uh as well as the solar options available um verbiage on the marketing signs that would be placed out on Holland Road. Um just to kind of get people, you know, aware that that possibility is there and that the conduit is available already. Um, garages shall be wired with a 220 volt outlet inside the garage um for EV charging. And then for storm water management in this basin, we are only required to treat the 10-year um storm, but we would be upping that to meet the 25-year requirements um above and beyond the state and apex requirements here. So, that's kind of a rundown of the conditions that we um have for you tonight. Um, one storm water pond is our current plan. Uh, that would be kind of situated here between the perennial stream buffer on the far west side and the intermittent stream buffer that sorts of cut through the center of our property here. Um, we do have some

interconnectivity requirements from the UDO that would ultimately connect Bellicassa to the south up through Holland Farm to the north using our property. And then in the future, this um, Hartley property is the only one that would remain undeveloped for now. Um, so obviously, you know, just kind of looking at street stubs, there's a world where, hey, it makes sense to just do one one continuous street that connects through there. Um, but we look at that as a an opportunity for cut through for people to maybe speed through the neighborhood and use it as a shortcut. Um, but b it also has an effect on the existing pond on that partly property to the south. So, obviously that's offsite. We're not here to talk about that pond necessarily, but we wanted to make sure that our street stub, which is required and which is included as a zoning condition, would be situated in such a way that the future developments can also stand a chance at avoiding that pond if they were to choose to save it. Um, it's a farm pond. I', you know, there's not really a lot of drainage area. It might get filled in one day and this all might be for not, but we wanted to at least give it a fighting chance. Um, so realistically our layout includes a road connecting to kind of a spine road that runs east west and then one more road connection to the south. Lots on either side of that road and it's it's fairly straightforward. Um, there are three wetlands on site that are all within stream buffers or well this one this one is not, but this is in a lowlying area that we are planning to avoid anyway for drainage issues. That's why I've included it in our RCA shading. Um, but we don't have any intent to have any wetland impacts, any stream impacts. And as of now, the only thing that I could see possibly impacting any stream buffers would be any fill grading associated with this substrate, which again, the only reason that it would be close enough to that stream buffer to warrant that would be to help future

developers in getting around that other pond. So we've tried to think through all these things in such a way that you know if we can avoid any grading and buffers altogether great we don't plan for any um utilities that would need to go that way. There is a possibility of a greenway connection towards the west. So that would be the only and we're we are not including that as a zoning condition that that it's being committed to because there currently is no greenway. But there is a town budgeted green north uh north south camp branch greenway that one day is supposedly going to be built here. Um so once we get into master subdivision planning there's a chance that we would be providing an easement. We would not actually be constructing a greenway through there. Um greenways are allowed within RCA. So if some if if it's a town funded project in the future it wouldn't necessarily negate our RCA or affect it. It would just kind of cut through it. um likely with any you know a bridge over any wetlands or streams or anything like that to avoid um further impact. So um that's the long and short of it. The only one the only other one that I um wrote down as something that we could offer it just seemed kind of um moot to me is no buffer averaging in the zone 3 buffer. We do have a zone 3 buffer on this west side, but all of our development is far enough away from it that we don't have any intent to do that. So, if the board's preference would be to have that written in stone, we can we can easily do that. Um, other than that, that's all I got for you. Happy to answer any questions.

Questions?

I have questions.

[laughter]

So you you would be clearing in the RCA to put in the storm water pond.

Um so what I have shaded here is actually a more than what I'm what we're writing into the code. So Apex has rules on

their RCA what can and count what can and cannot count as RCA for the storm water. And I think it's anything from the vegetative shelf inward. So the pond itself could count, the shelf could count, but all the the grass slopes making up the footprint of the pond could not count as RCA anyway. So the way this is drawn, um there probably would be some green shading around that pond that would be discounted. So whatever we call RCA will meet, you know, Apex's requirements of storm water and it will still exceed what we have listed as our condition here. And so if you did incur the penalty for mass grading, where would that additional RCA go?

It's baked in.

It's already in this green shaded.

Um, so without that, what does the RCA look like?

So I've run some, you know, some some calculations based on our current layout. And our numbers are like I said even with or without the 5% our RCA sort of is what it is based on the amount of environmental features that we are saving that are in the lowline areas. So I mean we are truthfully we're above 40% probably any way you you slice it. Um but there are some you know your storm water point you know if we got into a situation where storm water got trickier and we had to grow it I I don't want to necessarily cut ourselves off at the at our knees right now with percentages. knowing that we're going to meet whether it's 35 or 40

I would say where physically it would be located

what additional RCA

no if on the low side where the low side RCA would be like your minimum RCA versus this like you're saying this is

if we only did 35% it would probably just follow the stream buffers and wetlands it would probably just kind of circle around the pond we would still be saving the stream buffers because we have to we're we're not getting into this wetland So, it's not going to look a whole lot different than what you see right now.

Okay. Um, so just

we could did the board talk for a moment where this property exists in the watershed. Um, the last time we saw resoning that was also on Holland Road. It was just up the street. It's in this same watershed and that tributary sort of meets the tributary that's on your west side. Fortunately, down below where you have um lots platted in the flood plane,

this also further downstream is where the town also has a flood resiliency grant to restore a segment of stream that is being impacted by erosion um a fair bit. So this this whole watershed um it's hard to tell how well storm water is being managed in the wershed obviously.

Um so I definitely think the 25 year storm is appropriate. If we go any higher I understand that that

you have to build a bigger facility so that means more clearing. So it's really you know not a good thing. Um, so definitely the 25-year storm, but this this is one of those places that's a little bit environmentally sensitive. Agreed. Um, I do think that is one of the kind of um inherent benefits to the low density that we're able to achieve here on the lane use map. This calls it as medium density, which has a upwards of six units per acre. Um, now granted with the limited access on Holland Road, um, we never were going to be able to get another entrance on Holland Road. The only way this was moving forward was through Holland Farm. There are fire code requirements on how many units can be, um, accessing that. So, I'm not going to say that, hey, we have 10 acres. We could do 60 town homes here because that's not realistic. Um, I think the upper limit of what we could do was like, oh gosh, I'm I'm blanking on exactly how many are in Holland Farm right now, but I think it was going to be like 19 or 20 that we could achieve if we were to go town homes or a much

smaller single family. So, I feel like my de the my clients, the developers have kind of chosen really the only product that fits this site. Um and it it is as about as low impact of a development as we could perceive. Um and then while also trying to avoid all the existing environmental features, I think we've we've done as conscious of an effort as we could to um keep all that in mind.

Um just out of curiosity that the street that you the stub you have coming in, why is it angled at the stream buffer? Why that

this one here?

Yeah. So we have I mean without showing you the layout since I don't have that here. We have it coming up here and then there would be a culde-sac here that has some homes up in this nook and then that kind of takes that angle right here to another culde-sac here.

Um

so it can't be oriented more north south to avoid the stream buffer

sort of in just same location but sort of just in that sure yeah this this exhibit I just drew it perpendicular to the property line. this that's not exactly

Yeah, because you did mention there might be some buffer impacts. You know,

I still think it's because I don't know exactly what the grades are going to be. We need to get that pond survey. The the LAR topography that we have is not really showing the dam um detailed. So, part of this, you know, we have um some lots back up to that. A part of this is going to be um you know consulting with those neighboring properties, getting an analysis on the existing dam. Essentially trying to put as much fill in these lots here downstream of the dam to where any homes below it are not below it. They would be sitting up higher than it and no chance for future flooding. Um but in doing so that could have an effect that our road is, you know, we're not able to get it down as low as we can. So how much grading is there? Does that mean we have a you know if we if we have to avoid the stream buffer altogether how expensive of a

retaining wall are we talking about that is also um you know has its own impacts. So, we're not at a point now of knowing exactly what that looks like. And for that reason, you know, my clients have not been interested in in the condition of no grading or anything in the buffer because we want to be able to use the UDO, you know, you know, use that use that tool in our tool belt essentially that if we get into a situation where hey, we're we're we're kind of towing the line of we have an existing pond, we have an existing stream buffer, put the road where it needs to be, build the houses in a safe condition, where does that leave us, you know, if we have to impact the first I mean making this up right now, but if you're, you know, eight or 10 feet into the buffer with grading and clearing, you replant it to RCA standards or whatever you need to do. Um, so I don't have a firm answer without having the full design. Um, but that's that's the best I can offer right now. Thank you.

Ju just for for clarification, uh you said you're doing the HOA covenants uh to not prohibit clover or natural

grass mixed species.

Yes, sir.

Okay. That I didn't see that checked on the list. Uh

yeah, you know, I was just looking through the list and there there was um there was one other that I noticed probably. So 13 and 14 are we checked 13. We didn't check 14. To me they sort of go hand in hand. Um

obviously the exact way that it's written we could separate those out and kind of provide 13 and 14. But to to my point there that might not be the only one that necessarily wasn't checked that we are providing. Um

well I I was looking at 16 and also 17.

Oh yeah, we missed 16. Um 17. I'm trying to remember if we talked about 17.

I heard you say that, but I may have been wrong. 17.

Yeah,

I'm trying to remember if we had specifically discussed that. It's certainly not anything that I have any qualms with. Um I mentioned that they have discussed merging HOAs with Holland Farm and that

may that may be an issue.

Well, I I asked that question of my clients. If we were to go that route, how does that affect all these covenant restrictions and all that thing? because you would assume you would have to meet the same covenants that they are.

Um, what I was told is that it would likely be sort of a a subassociation of Holland Farm to where they can still have their own set of covenants that may vary slightly um to where you're not completely bound because that would obviously become problematic if we've agreed to two things that can't be true.

Other questions?

Uh, I'd like to go to clean energy. Don't be surprised.

I was waiting for you.

Number 28. Uh, I'd like to see at least one home with a solar PV system of 3.5 kilowatts and that that be installed before 50% of the building permits are issued. We have 90%. I wanted to change that to 50% if that's okay with the board. We're back to the penguin theory.

Keep in mind this is 13 lots. This will be all platted at once. So there Oh, you used to have building permits.

Yeah.

Right. Okay. So, okay.

That's at least that's what we have here on this thing. I just like to see these things come in a little bit early. I remember some time ago one developer said, "Okay, we'll stick it in." I kept going by and waiting and waiting. The very last house they put it in. So, the penguin theory didn't work.

Didn't didn't have a chance. Yeah. Um, I'll discuss with my clients. I

appreciate that.

Yeah.

Thank you, Patrick.

Um, I would like to add number two. I realize you might not be able to accommodate that, but um, I would like to go ahead and add number two just because of of the condition of the wershed as a whole. And then I would

also like to go ahead and add 23 um either A or B. And that's um, signage at the RCA or farmstyle fence. I mean that you're going to have a pretty big chunk of of what amounts to natural area. So to reduce encroachments or social trails through that I think that it would be worthwhile having um at least indicate [clears throat]

okay

that that's just not more land for the neighborhood.

Sure.

I can discuss. Thanks.

Anything else board? So, I'd like to get a motion based on what he's already checked off adding the 25-year storm water protection. The U

We have that one already.

Yeah. Okay. Uh the road more north and south item 14, 16, 17, 28, 2, and 23 A or B. Do I have a motion?

I have a make a motion that those be adopted.

Second.

I'll second.

Any more discussion?

No more discussion. A vote saying I

I motion forward. It passed.

Thank you.

Thank you all very much.

Thanks for your time.

Thank you, Patrick. So the next order of business, new business, thanks Nora,

is to have a vote on whether we want to add a second EAB meeting for this process to hear what they have done and agreed to do before it goes to city council or town council.

I love this idea.

I do too. Personally, it's like you put effort in and you don't hear back until like Bill was saying, "Oh, the last house they put it on. Thanks." I guess my question is let's let's say we vote on this and we say let's do this. Uh what is the next step and what kind of approvals does this require?

To hear me?

Yeah, please. [clears throat]

Still a lot of kind of to figure out what this would look like kind of how you guys would like to see come back before you. you know, if we require the second neighborhood um sorry, the second EAB meeting, you know, do you is that gonna how do you want that to look? Do you want that them to come back up here and explain in person what they've accepted or what they're profering to you now after they've gone through the process? Would you prefer it in a letter format? Um it's really just us figuring out the timing, the documentation, getting it to the the council and the planning board and all that processes going forward. So, from my perspective, what I'd like to see is as [clears throat] a minimum, here's here's the items we talked about and voted on as recommendations. Are we able to meet those recommendations? And if not, why not? Does that make sense?

Yeah,

I understand that there valid reasons for them not to be able to to conform. They've got a lot of uh conflicting uh regulations and and objectives that they've got to go to. But I I think I think we would it would have more impact on on us if they would come in and and explain to us why,

right?

They were not able to meet whatever it was we were recommending. I think that would help it would help us in the future, I think.

Yeah. And it would it may make them think twice about rejecting our recommendations too if they've got the

ownership and skin in the game by coming back.

Okay. The one the one concern with that staff has is potentially they come before you for their second meeting. They explain what they're able to profer, what they're not willing to offer at that time. Um there's concern that there might be an attempt to maybe negotiate for more then which might trigger the need to come back before you maybe for a third meeting if if if because this is unfortunate and this is just how it's set up before you. A lot of times you'll have wonderful people like Matthew come before you and say we'll consider this we'll consider that but I can't give you an answer and I don't expect the second meeting to be any different. So there might be a process in the second meeting where they explain what they can and cannot do as far as their profering and then you would still make a voter recommendation at that meeting and not pursue maybe an additional

as well. No, no,

perfect.

One more shot is all we would need.

An an alternative I guess and I don't want to sound weak, but to have them send us a paper of what they've done and and explain it to us. Uh

just read it into the minutes.

Pardon me.

And then just read it into the minutes.

Yeah.

And you could vote on that as well.

It's it's an alternative. I I you don't want to make it arduous for them and at the same time you want to make them get up on the poll and see you can whip them. Yeah.

Well, I wouldn't say that, but [laughter]

you know, if if if

but I think it's

if they have to come in and explain what the what why they're not willing to do something, then uh I think it may make them give it a little more thought before they just, you know, throw it out out of hand. That's what I'm hoping anyway.

[clears throat and snorts] And as you consider like what this might look like if there was ever a condition, not that this has happened, but you say you you have an applicant come in for resoning that comes before you and they want to give you everything that you want. They want to give you your solar, they want to give you all your protections and they agree to that and then during the review process they've they've met everything. They're going to do that for you. Is there any situation where you would want to wave or they provide a letter saying we've met all your requirements that you asked for so they wouldn't have to attend that second meeting? Is that any kind of

Yeah, I think that

not that if that ever happens, but you know. [laughter]

So, so they will give us a report right away once they make their decisions from whatever meeting.

I think I think they're just like having the option that you will receive something at a second meeting at the second meeting before they go before any type of planning board or town council. It's just they've agreed to everything. So, you're not requiring them to come back before you to explain anything. [clears throat]

Yeah.

Yeah. So that might be a way to get them to accept everything and

or even if they don't agree to everything, as long as they list out why what you're saying, uh I you know, I think we're all reasonable except for me

to and I think a letter a letter if you still wish them to come before you and explain and talk to you in person, a letter accompanying that is is perfectly fine and reasonable, I think, as well.

Okay. And you still want them to come here?

No, I agree with the letter. Yeah. Okay.

So, any other discussion? the the the pro the this process. Let's

see how it works. We're okay. We're okay. We adopt this. We think this is great from staff perspective and and from the town council and and plan and all. How does this get incorporated into the planning process and and what all what additional steps have to be made to make this start happen? Yeah, we initially had concerns about timing, especially if at the second meeting there was any more negotiation, but if that's off the table, like if you guys are just going to hear why they couldn't do it and make your vote or recommendation at that time, it doesn't really affect our timing. Um, again, if

we have some type of written letter from them, that would be great to include in the agenda packet for both your planning board and your town council. Uh, additionally, we do include what was recommended or what provided in the staff report. It just might expand that, make them an even bigger of a process. Yeah.

So, there's uh just it's timing. It'll it'll really affect the timing, but you know, if that's something that you guys want to pursue and move forward with, it'll also give uh the opportunity for applicants to really come prepared for you before you. Yeah.

Um and then just we're going to also explore in the next several months um codifying some of the requirements that are more the low hanging fruit that you guys are seeing all the time, you know, like the pet West stations and things like that as well. So that hopefully when you're coming, they come up here, you're having more conversations about impactful, meaningful items. Yeah,

that would be good.

And there'll be more updates as Mr. behalf you already spoke in there talks with legal and other things what how we can empower the board even more. [clears throat]

Okay. So in a motion for to the vote on on having a second meeting or a letter explaining what what they can and cannot do from the recommendations.

I'll make that motion. Is that what you

I have a second.

I'll second.

All those in favor say I.

I.

I. All those opposed.

I just feel like few of us are dominating the whole thing and I don't

We have open discussion at this time. Earthfest sign up. Nora,

I knew you'd come running up.

So, in your email that I sent this week, you should have received a link to um a signup genius. And we can just write it here, too. But I figured if you wanted a way to have this to add to your digital calendars, you can use the signup genius. Um, I've got a couple slots made. So, there's a setup slot. Um, let me refresh this.

But you think one of us signed up while

you weren't looking? [laughter]

No, I changed the time. Um, it'll reflect. I don't know why it's updating now, but I changed the time to be 10:30 to 12 because we don't actually start until 12:00. Um, but I know last year like it was good to be there a little bit early. Probably don't need to be there a full 2 hours early, but um 10:30 to 12 is set up. So, we've got Suzanne already signed up. We have a couple tableabling times. So, there's a noon to 1 slot, a 1 to two slot, 2 to three, 3 to 4, and then the event ends at four that day. So, um, there's a breakdown slot after that. And the breakdown didn't really take that long last year. So, probably 30 minutes, 45 minutes for that.

Be possible for you to resend that sign up.

Yeah, I can resend it now.

Some of us may have deleted that because we don't like sign up stuff.

Yeah. [laughter] Well, it's um

super easy. You just click the slots you want. It'll send you an email. You can add it to your calendars. But if you know now if there's times you want I can write that down too and send another reminder email that way. Anybody have any particular times or you want to think about it? I'll send the link back out.

Please send the link back out.

Yep.

It'll refresh all our memories.

Perfect.

Appreciate that.

Next item is any other discussion on the signup.

Okay.

Tree subcommittee update.

Yes. So, we talked about it last month um but we're going before um the town council work session on April 30th to present what we've been working on with this tree subcommittee. And so, um our initial subcommittee group has officially ended because we only had it listed to work until January. Um so, we could recon form that subcommittee and if anybody wants to join in, we would

love that. Um, but we're pretty much done with the work we've been doing. We just need to refine our presentation that we want to give. Um, make any final edits. Um, and then have a couple meetings. Bruce and I were thinking we don't need to meet as often as we did before. So maybe we need to have one more meeting before the March EAB meeting. That way in March we can come and share with the whole board what we've worked on and then maybe have one more meeting again before that April 30th date. And if we need more, we could add more. But um I'll send to Allan the clerk's office our you know new statement of purpose of we're making the subcommittee group to finalize and review our information there. So Mark and Suzanne, I'm guessing you guys still want to be

yes

a part of it. Perfect. And I believe it's appropriate to have one more review before we finalize everything.

Yeah. Yep.

Anybody else interested in joining? We would love more feedback if you're if you want to join.

We'll get it that night when you present it here.

Yeah, that's true. True, too.

That's how it always works.

Well, if not, then

we need to make a motion to establish the subcommittee.

Oh, yes. Let's do that. A motion to establish

reestablish

re-establish the tree subcommittee

for no more than one meeting. Does that make is that fair? Can I get a motion?

I would say just

I would say through

through April. Okay. Through through April.

Through April. Yes.

I'll move.

Have a second.

Second.

Not here.

Give it to Sandra. Any further discussion? You guys are all welcome. It's a rip roaring time. [laughter] Can we

Well, then I'll email. We can email and

um get those dates set up.

We need a vote, Bill.

Oh, can we please vote on the motion on the floor to reestablish the committee?

I I get those meetings planned.

Um

Thank you. the enhancement environmental plan review.

I'm let Bruce come back. So, this isn't quite like a full a full review for this evening. It was kind of just to let you know we provided the some of the information for you. Um, I understand some members had issues opening up the larger SharePoint document as well. So, what I'll do is I'll go in and I'll I'll make it smaller, smaller PDF that we can rem out to you so you can review what the environmental action plan looks like for the Veridia development. I apologize that it it was hard to open for some of the members here, but um, essentially, let me pull that up. Um, if you guys have any questions, we can I'd encourage you to collect those and we can discuss it um, moving forward. But yeah, there's some there's some good information. You know, the Verdia plan also goes into like things like air quality and things like that. Some stuff we might start considering a bit more and things as we look at enhancing our current our environmental standards for the town itself as a whole and things like that. Bruce, I noticed there was a lot in there that at le federal, state, and local laws. Um, is there an easy way as I read that to sort of tease out like what they're just what just is an existing law that they're just following and they have

just put that in the text versus actually an enhancement above and beyond. Is there an easy way to do that or just sort of just become familiar?

No, I you know what that that's a great question. I think what we might want to pursue moving forward, and this is something I think I I want to create for myself as well, is to provide maybe you guys with a table that kind of shows you what what they're trying to meet and how they're enhancing that. I think that'd be a really good way to communicate that to you. Um, that's a great point. I didn't I didn't think about that

because if it's an enhancement, state federal guidelines doesn't really enhance.

No, exactly. Yeah. So, I can provide that for you. Was there a specific section?

No, I just Uh, no. I did read the whole document, so like it's a little overwhelming, so I can't recall off the top of my head one specific section, but I did find myself sort of wondering, is this an enhancement or is this just what everybody wants?

It's whatever.

Yeah, I'm sure it is. [clears throat and laughter]

I mean, there was one thing in there that I found kind of surprising about being able to put non-residential buildings in the flood plane. Um, I wasn't real sure how that was an enhancement, but it was interesting.

The hospital.

Was there any other aspects of the the plan that we'd like further discussion or further uh research to provide to you guys?

Until we all get a good copy.

Absolutely. We'll get the PDF copy out for you if possible.

Thanks.

Yeah, no problem. And I see another item here for a workshop session.

Yeah, I I brought that up just because I feel like it would be a good way for us to maybe think about how we're looking at some of these applications and get people who are more experienced. Yes.

Could show us how they review these these applications and then so we have kind of like a deeper understanding. So Suzanne had mentioned that she would

offer her services on how she reviews it. So everyone on the board would be minimal to that and utilize [laughter]

how you how you would like to do it. So I know I'd want to take a burner offer. So I just wanted to bring that to the board to see if anyone else interested.

Oh, I'm interested. But question is when do we want to have that session and when and does that session need to be announced to the public?

I would imagine that it probably would need to be announced to the public. Um we could probably do it in a in a different room. I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah. um

like we did the tree committee

or depending on how many people the you know

however many people were interested would dictate the size of the space and really it would just be sort of an environmental an overview of how to use remotely sensed data because you know we don't visit the property so you sort of have to

how do you determine what's on the landscape what is the environment to be able to apply these conditions so it be like that kind of I'm sorry. Um

I think I think a workshop is appropriate and need it especially for some of us that are new to the board as a whole.

Um so can I ask

that something we can coordinate with Nora?

Nora can coordinate with you with you and we can find a time and date and get the invites out to the team here as a starting point.

Yeah. For my end. Yeah. We can coordinate

with that. Thank you.

Yep.

And if we need to use like the training

this particular meeting, but some of your meetings are shorter.

Use that time to transition over the workshop right agenda item on, you know, 6:30 session and start the work session upstairs.

Yeah,

this one's getting a bit long already. [laughter]

Okay. So, with that aside, is there any other items anyone would like to bring up for the betterment of the board?

Um, yeah. I just just because I noticed it in the minutes from last time, there was a statement in there about the the native plant ordinance perhaps having some language for this meeting. the draft is is complete in in early March will be reviewed by the plan director that will move forward and so hopefully that'll come before you guys the plan I'm I'm meeting with her before your meeting in March so hopefully that'll get put on your agenda you'll have some idea of language then if there's any conditions and there April will be the latest you would see it and we're meeting again after we meet in April as well for the tree canopy same kind of process we'll come back in May and June present you something.

Um, and just if you wouldn't mind, one more thing.

Um, I read that this week the Charlotte City Council unanimously approved a change to, this is from the North Carolina Wildlife Federation. Uh, they approved a change to local vegetation rules that makes it easier for residents to garden for wildlife. And so what they're what they did is they created an exemption for properly maintained pollinator habitats and naturalistic landscapes to be exempt from the they have a 12 inch height limit on vegetation. So

any properly maintained pollinator gardens or naturalistic landscapes are exempt from that height limit.

Would that apply to HOAs? Yeah, I don't know how it get if if you can supersede HOA existing HOAs or not, but [laughter] perhaps for future developments. Um,

that may be something the board considers an apex. I don't know if Apex has a I it kind of looked like we had a height limit of 8 in.

We just added

Okay.

Um, I don't know what the exact number was. It was pretty recent last year or two. We added a health and safety or for the cases where you know snakes or whatever get upset.

So it's a health and safety thing to to deal with some properties in town that all a little bit. So yeah, we can try to find that ordinance and see what it says. Okay,

as I'm getting ready to plant this whole back 40 of mine with adios. Anything else? Can I get a motion from the floor on adjourning the meeting?

So moved.

Do I have a second?

Second. Get a vote. Yay.

Meeting adjourned. Fantastic.