Multimodal Transportation Advisory Board

Okay, thank you. Thank you. I'll give you

I was just messing with my settings, making sure you can zoom in.

Okay,

I'm Elizabeth.

All righty.

Going to call the meeting to order. All right. Welcome everyone. Today is May 13th. Time flies when you're having fun. Can't believe we're almost halfway through the calendar year. Uh for those of us who have young kids, I'm just dreading the two months of summer. Um all right, so got a a great agenda today, but wanted to start by introducing our newly installed member, Socket. Those of you who haven't had a chance to introduce yourselves before the meeting, um this is Socket, our new member. Saket, would you like to introduce yourself?

Do I can I say no? Hi, Saka Jane. Um, a relatively newer member of Apex Community. We moved here in 2022 from DC. Loving the space. I don't know why we didn't move it earlier. Um, I own a venture capital fund uh where we invest in medical startups and I'm really looking. This is my first public advisory position so I'll need a lot of support. If I start crying one day, just you know why I'm crying.

Well, welcome. Glad glad to have you. Um Arno, did you want to start?

Sure. Arno Zerman. I'm one of the council members here in Apex. I'm the council representative on the multimotal trans transportation advisory board. Uh I'll try to say less than the previous meetings, but um you know this is really for an opportunity for me on behalf of council to uh sit in you know hear the deliberations of of the advisory board and take some of that information back to my council colleagues or you know give a friendly nudge here and there where you know I I think that's the board can add value to the conversation as far as you know council policy is is concerned. So, um I'm not a participating member in the board, but I'm really here to observe and uh and learn from you guys.

Um my name is Senia and I'm a junior in

high school and I'm the youth representative for the board. I'm Wendy Perry Fannon and I have been I have lived in Apex for my gosh a lot of years and I've I've worked in this city in different capacities everything from a teacher assistant to right now I'm have a small small business so and my daughter is legally blind and hearing impaired so that's why I'm motivated to participate in this

Elizabeth Bruner shifting into retirement after a nonprofit career here for 23 years. I do not own a car, so I ride the bus and I ride every bus that goes through Apex and every bus that goes to Carrie and most of them that go through Raleigh. You know, bus person.

Uh I'm Noah Tob, the vice chair, missing our colleague Linda, who is our fearless leader and chair who's unable to make it this evening. I work for UNCC health and real estate and facilities. been in Apex for eight years in and around the triangle for all of about 30. So excited for your joy.

I'm Gabe Williams. I have been in Apex for about 13 years. Been on this board for almost two. Recently retired from Cisco Systems.

Patrick Curley. Uh lived in Apex a little over 25 years or so. Uh work in the engineering for an engineering company. I've been on the board for probably almost two years, too.

I'm Jennifer Aaylor. I'm a new board member as well. Um I've lived in Apex since 1989. Um and I have a vision impairment that prevents me from driving at night. So transit in this area is a huge um goal of mine and hopefully everybody else in town can agree at some point that we do want to have transit available.

Good to see you in person. Chris Watson, planner 2 and Steph is the board.

Thank you.

Nice to see you in person again. Shannon Cox, the long range planning manager.

All right.

Well, thank you. All right, Ashley. Oh,

you're

Oh, I was ready to

turn it over to you.

Next on the agenda.

Too fast.

Right on time.

Sorry. Okay. Welcome, Socket. We are very happy you're here. Okay. So, the first item is a staff proposal for the July 8th work session meeting. Um, uh, Shannon is going to speak on this um before I take over on the meeting schedule. So, Shannon, would you like to

Sure. Just a very brief um description of what we'd like to do. Uh we've talked about peak plan 2055, the town's comprehensive plan um that is well underway and we'll also include a full transportation plan update. I've talked with the consultant team now that we're getting into the transportation plan element. I'd like to have a work session with this board um for them to present what they're working on, start to get input from you all. Um there is a task force for the peak plan as well, but since this board's focus is transportation, I thought that it was prudent to have a touch point. Um the July 8th meeting works well for our peak plan schedule. I'm going to try to have them come and have it correspond with a task force meeting. So we'll have two times for the consultant, right? Then um I would like it to be more of a work session setting. So we'd be upstairs most likely again gathered around getting input, writing notes, things like that. Um and I would really like to know if people can't make that date. I know it's July because I'm bringing the consultant and if we don't have quorum, that's an expense that they'll just be here, you

know, not meeting with people. Um, so that's my request and if if there's any like known conflicts that would be great to kind of talk through today if possible. Thank you.

Thank you Shannon.

So the request was made the current July 8th which was our original um meeting work a meeting but now we're asking for a work session. So on July 8th, which would be on the third floor instead of in the chambers. Um so with that requested action, um do we have a motion to approve?

So move.

Is there a second?

I second it.

Okay. All in favor say I.

Discussion.

Do open for discussion?

Yes.

I'm actually opposed to this because I would prefer it be a formal meeting here. I really want us to take advantage of the chance for public feedback, which is a new part of the meeting. Obviously, no one came today, but I'll keep trying to recruit for it. And I like it being videotaped and formal, and I feel like things should be on air, that there should be formal minutes. So, I'm not opposed to the content or the sense of us doing brainstorming together, but my preference is that it be official. U I u I would prefer it be in the working room as proposed. It will still be an official meeting. There would still be minutes taken just like the one minutes taken for our last session. And I would say people could still come for public comment. It just would not be live streamed over video and I appreciate your comments but I think that setting would be more conducive to to the kind of working session

correct

that we're wanting to have. And to be clear, the the requested action is specific to the July 8th date or the entire calendar.

Right. Correct. So So to your your comment about feedback, um perhaps it would be different if it was for the entire subsequent meetings, but I think last meeting was very productive and I appreciate wanting feedback. So ideally starting with the September meeting, we would resume back to this format.

That's correct. So it's only one meeting. July 8th work session meeting upstairs on third floor. We have one motion.

I do have a question. Is it the same time?

Yes. 4:45.

Okay. schedule on the plan next meeting before.

Yeah. But along those lines, I'll say that I wish this was a monthly schedule, which I think at some point had been under consideration, especially if we are going to periodically do work sessions that take us out of this room.

That's that's I think one of the priorities or opportunities for discussion and prioritizing is the opportunity for the creation of subcommittees. So my thinking would be that through the creation of subcommittees, groups of us would be able to connect in a more frequent basis than bimonthly.

So with this with the work session on July 8th, um you can choose to live stream and you can have a public comment period at the beginning before the um discussion starts with your um with your meeting. So that is an option if you choose to do that. Um so live streaming is available if you wish um during work session style normally it is not um but it's your choice for your your work

style meeting

do so discussion on that

so discussion on a possible motion that includes public comment and live stream

I would be very happy with that personally

so there was a previous motion on the table so is there moving to adopt this motion.

The adopted motion to move as is.

There's a motion on the table to make July 8.

We're now adapting that motion to include a public hearing.

Yes.

Not sorry, not a public hearing, an opportunity for public comment, right? Like we have right here today. You can you can have an um you can have a public comment period as long as it's stated in the public notice um that there is a public comment period,

but we're still talk even with the live stream option. We're still talking about being in the conference room.

Correct. Upstairs.

I I don't feel strongly one way or the other about live stream or not. I think if you're watching a live stream of people working in groups, it's kind of weird for the watcher, but if they want to Okay.

So, going back to the original motion of a working session without live streaming and public comment.

Correct. There was a motion on the table for that one.

For that one.

Yes.

Yes. Is there a second?

Yeah, it was second.

Who second? I didn't hear the second. Okay.

Okay. Um,

now we have to put vote it down and then vote for a new motion. Okay. All in favor say I. All oppose say no.

No.

Okay. The motion fails. Now there's a

new

I don't think that was super clear what we were doing.

So let's just make it easy. If everybody wants to change it, I'll just amend my motion that we have a working session on July the 8th and that we take advantage of the opportunity to allow for public comment just like we do in any other meeting and have live stream available.

Okay. So, we have an amended motion now.

So, do you amend your second?

I do.

Okay. So I would I would suggest maybe we do the eyes first and the nose

second. Okay.

Just so we can clarify who's who's voting which way.

All in favor of the amended motion

say I.

Say I.

I.

I. All opposed say no.

Okay. The motion passes. Thank you.

Okay.

Never a dull moment.

Sorry. It's okay.

Okay. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

All right. So, the next order of business is the amendments to the uh 2026 MTAB meeting schedule. The last time um I believe we had discussed moving the meeting start time to 4:45 p.m. instead of 4 o'lock p.m. So that is the adjustment um to the schedule the meeting schedule at this time. So what we are what I'm proposing is we are uh we requested action is the July 8th. So, we have that um amending and we also have the requested action for the 4:45 um time frame for um start time for each meeting.

All right.

Any any discussion on that? Start time 4:45

for the remainder of the meetings.

For the remainder of all the meetings. So, the calendar goes through November 4th. Um and again, this is every other

month. So the next two meetings you have is September 9th and November 4th. So those two and including July 8th. I don't want to forget that. So July 8th, September 9th and November 4th would be start time 4:45. And that's what we are u proposing to amend tonight.

Just a quick

Yes, ma'am.

The November meeting is the 4th and not the 12th.

Correct. The 12th was um in 2025 year time frame and the for 2026 it is up November 4th for this meeting this year.

All right. Any discussion on the revised start times for the remainder of the meeting?

I have a question. Ara, we were adjusting this primarily because of your schedule. Is it working for you?

This is working much better than Okay. Yes. Okay.

Okay. Great.

And I do appreciate everything. Okay.

All right. Is there a motion to uh confirm the amended 2026 multimodal transportation advisory board meeting schedule?

Make a motion.

All right. Motion. Is there a second?

Second.

We have a second. All in favor say yes or I.

I. I.

I.

All opposed. Okay. The motion passes. Okay, perfect. Thank you very much. Next item of business. Um, so I was asked to come before you to discuss the um what is a public comment period? What is what does it mean? What do you do? So um I'm very happy to be here for you to go over just a few things on um what to expect when someone does come before you and speak on public comment. So first is the most important portion. This is the most important uh portion of the meeting where residents have a chance to come up and speak. So they share their input with the the advisory board. Um so it

they are able to share their concerns, any ideas or feedback to to you guys. Um typically this public comment is reserved for items that are not already on the agenda. Um but since those um but also too so and also too sorry before speaking individuals will have to sign up um with a signup sheet. So um Chris has um placed a signup sheet which will start um from now on be placed here and anyone who would like to speak would need to um sign in prior to the meeting. Um the the signup sheet will be available one hour prior to the meeting. So if anyone gets here early, they are able to go ahead and sign in and find their seats or whatever that might be. Um we do ask the speakers to state their name and address for the record. Um this helps with transparency and um helps ensure accuracy of the minutes as well. Um and so we know who we're speaking to as well. Okay. So, this is just an this is an overview on what it actually is. Okay. Um the chair normally facilitates the public comment period. So, the chair will call up the next person or the person to speak. So, let's move on. Oh, any questions on this so far on this first part? Okay.

Okay.

Go ahead.

Yes, ma'am. It's just about the timing of it on the schedule. And I'm thinking of a bus rider who perhaps worked a full-time job and then has to take the bus to get here. If someone alerted us in advance that they wanted to come speak but didn't think they could make it by, say, 505 by the beginning of the meeting, could we let someone once they arrived v of us speak at 5:45 or something? Could we have that kind of flexibility for our special audience

that might not have cars? If public comment has been closed, um the speaker would have to wait until the next meeting or would like to speak to you guys after the meeting if they he or she has any questions. So, it sounds like that the resident who has comment but is arrives after the public comment period closes for the meeting would still have the opportunity if they join late to still connect with folks after the meeting and express their

questions or concerns.

And there's zero flexibility on that. I think it might

if the if public comment if if a resident comes in before public comment and let's say the chair has the the slip okay the paper he or she is absolutely can speak on if they choose but if public comment is closed and normal business is you just you go on about you know normal agenda business um so after public comment is closed there is no no open you can't open back the public comment period

and we're not able to move public comment to later in the agenda as a standard practice for this special audience of people who might not have cars.

That's a question for the board um to rearrange your agenda format. You would have to be in consensus in order to move in rearranging any agenda items specifically. If I recall correctly, I think one of the concerns about moving public comment, we I think we may have discussed this in a prior meeting. One of the concerns about moving public comment later in the meeting is that if certain items took longer than anticipated, uh there would be concern about people waiting to the very end to have their public comment. And also if there are people who sign up

at least a 1 hour advance to the meeting even if the public comment period is is closed ideally that person's already come to the meeting and can voice their concerns and questions informally with members of the board afterward. So though it would not be on the public record, the questions and concerns would still be voiced informally to the board members. I would offer people can also contact staff in advance.

Absolutely.

Um concerns.

Residents can also send an email to staff if they wish. Um that's another way of public forum. Um

and I would offer there are lots of reasons why people might not be able to get here.

Work being one of those primary things. So I think um many people may have to take advantage of that option to know. So

any other question?

Is there an email address for this board as a as a as a whole? Is there like an alias?

Um I don't think there's an MTAB email address, but I would um share uh the board liaison's um contact information and refer it to to that person. you started to mention something about not addressing things that are on the agenda for public comment.

So, normally items um on in public comment are items that are not on the agenda. Um so, that's just a common thing where anyone can come and and speak on any other topic that they choose to speak on.

One clarification on that, Ashley. I think that's if there's a public hearing, correct? Yeah, that's true, too. Yes.

But if it's if it's just on the agenda, but we don't have a public hearing,

they can speak on

they could speak to that.

That makes sense. I was

sorry.

Thank you. Thank you.

Any other questions?

Uh just to confirm, folks who join on the live stream are unable to provide comment during the public comment period. Is that correct?

You cannot do that.

All right. Just wanted to confirm. Alrighty. So, um time limits and procedures. So, each speaker again is required to sign in um using the sign-in sheet prior to uh speaking. Um before the public comment period, the board liaison will uh give the chair or vice chair the sign-in sheet. So, he will then call he or she will call the speaker forward. Okay. So um and so you will start there. A timer is also displayed as you see here um for the uh resident for transparency purposes and so they know um how long they can speak. Each speaker is allotted three minutes. Um if there is a group of four or more they are allotted nine minutes. um one speaker can speak at at one time. So if you have four or more people and they choose to break up their nine minutes with more than one speaker, they can do that. So one speaker speaks for maybe three minutes and the other speak speaker speaks for the rest of the time that that's perfectly fine. Um but but one speaker at a time. Um and so the board liaison will hander handle the timer and so he will reset that each at each time um a speaker comes before you. Okay. All right. So roles and conduct. So one of the important things to remember is that this is um for this is public comment is for the public to speak. So this again this is their only time that they get a chance to speak before you.

So um you are do not respond do you're encouraged not to respond during this time. No side conversations please avoid those. You are um there to listen and um listen to the residents and um hear their feedback. Um the chair is responsible for maintaining the order of business for public comment. Um so that is an expectation of also the chair any concerns raised by the public. Um so for example let's say a resident will come and speak in public comment and ask questions to you. Um you are not allowed to answer those questions. the board liaison will be taking notes and taking those questions and um we'll reach out if they want any feedback or any answers or whatnot. Um the board um we do encourage you to maintain um a decorum so be respectful um professional and maintain an orderly environment. If um if that does not happen um if if let's say there's a resident here just not being a professional respectful um the chair does have um the permission to uh bang the gavvel and conduct orderly fashion. Okay. So any questions so far before I go to my last slide. Okay. So as you probably know um when someone comes to speak you just basically the chair will say you know thank you for your comments. So, if we do have someone who does get a little out of line, I did provide you with some additional um uh comments for the chair and for you guys to also know because maybe one of you might want to be chair one day. Um so, you know how to respond to um residents in this forum as well. So if a speaker

goes over time over the three minutes or over the nine minutes you just politely thank them for their comments and just say please wrap up um so we can stay with our aotted time. Um the speaker becomes confrontational or disrespectful. The chair again will ask that comments remain be respectful. Um again the speaker asks questions or expect a response. You do not respond. you are, you have a notepad and pen, so you can always write questions or write their questions down. If you uh feel like you need to answer them or something, please contact the board leaison and connect with him because he will provide the response to all public comment questions to the the resident. If comments are off topic, um chair will respond. Uh please keep your comments related to matters with the board's purview. Um, this is multimodal, so you don't probably don't want to be talking about parks and wreck or whatever. I'm not sure. Um, and, um, if you do have multiple speakers talking about the same topic, um, you can also acknowledge that as well that, um, we appreciate your shared feedback and we've noted your concern. So, um, these are just extra examples just so you're aware and just in case something does happen. I don't want you to be blindsided by anything um if a resident does come up, but it never I I have not seen that happen. Um and I hope to not see that happen, but I want you all to be prepared just in case. Um are there with that? That's all that I have. Um are there any questions from me? Yes, ma'am. a suggestion that I would appreciate staff to explore if you could for the Campo Regional Transportation Group where I have gone to make a public comment. It is a big hassle for bus people to get there. So, you're able to call in and make an audio recording that is then played your authentic voice in front of that board or I believe you can do an email message

that is read live by a staff person. So, I'd like us just to consider barriers to giving public comment for this very special population.

Thank you. Any other questions for me before I hand it off to Chris?

Have a question. Um, how are people like informed about the public comment because this is something new that we added, right? So, is it on like the website or

It is. So, um, you will, so specifically residents will go to the website, they'll see the agenda posted on the website and so when they pull that up, um, they'll see there's a public comment period on the agenda. So, that's how they know that it's there. Um, so they should by looking at the agenda specifically.

Thank you.

I've made some effort on social media when I see someone giving substantive bus related comments to say, "Hey, here's another opportunity to share that That's right.

I will um I will also in the upcoming council meetings make uh make a plug right that's you know the board is now open for public comments and anybody who wishes to speak to the board directly can can do so here as well.

Well that's everything I have for you tonight. I hope everything um all makes sense. And if you need anything from me, please feel free to email me or Allan. We are um always happy to assist any way we can. Thank you.

Thank you, Ashley.

All right, moving into the public comment period or Chris.

No.

Nope.

I was about to ask if anyone has signed up.

No one has signed up.

No one has signed up. Okay.

And it over to you for discussion on the meeting minutes from the previous two meetings from January and March.

Yes. So um provided in our packet were

both the meeting minutes from our working session in March and our meeting in January as well. Um is there a motion to approve the meeting minutes from our January 14th meeting?

Is there a second?

Second.

All right. All in favor? Oh, sorry.

Discussion. you you'll just need to assume I have something to discuss. Uh the information update document with statistics should be included with the March minutes. We had made that decision and the information sheet wasn't part of that packet. And then the summary of board comments about Jenna's presentation are just too minimal. This is on page 15. I think the specific comments that were made should be captured about pedestrian safety. It looks like we listened to a really long presentation and then didn't say much at all. So on on page 15 is your concern that the text

just mentions Jenna Chan Sha gave an overview overview of the crosswalk lighting initiative

and didn't have

any discussion beyond that.

There's one combined sentence about what we said. There were discussions about safety considerations, where there are missing sidewalks, audible crosswalks for visually impaired pedestrians, push button versus automatic signal signals, and signal timing at pedesting crossings. I think it was more substantive than that, right? It's just kind of giving a phrase for each board member who made some comment. I think the context of what we had to say or ask is important. This felt, in my opinion, far too condensed. Question for the clerk's office or staff. Is this level of detail consistent with uh notes and minutes and

other board meetings in terms of level of description. So for resident advisory boards, yes, you know, we we've kind of gone back and forth on this and this board may recall that the discussion has kind of taken place a couple times at this board level um as to how much detail goes into the minutes and how much detail is summarized. So I I would suggest that if if you want to make amendments to the minutes, you certainly can do that. Um but it would have to be done, you know, at this level because the the transcriptionist is going to continue to do summary based minutes. And so what you feel is important um may not be what others feel are important. So I would say if you have amendments certainly make those and we can incorporate those if that's the board's wish.

Does that make sense?

Yes.

Is it possible to get the full transcript unedited? So this is a meeting from several months ago. Can one get that along with the summarized minutes? If I had the full transcript, then I would look at it and say, you know, this was

12 minutes of substantive important feedback. These sentences are missing. I can't do that from memory. I can just say that looking at this, I know I personally said more than just that.

Sure. Sure. So, um, currently YouTube provides that transcript that's kind of open. So when the video opens up, you can click down at the bottom and I can send you some detailed instructions in the entire board. Um where you click view transcript and it opens a pane to the right and it gives a an entire detailed transcript that what you're talking about. Um if we take a step back to about a year ago, um a discussion was held at the council level as to how much detail should be in resident advisory board meeting minutes as well as in council meeting minutes. and it was determined that um from a council perspective, they would prefer the resident advisory board meetings be summarized. You know, obviously if there

are motions and things that need to be included, and some of you may recall this from the orientation that if there's things that you want to have a call out for and you want to say, "Hey, I want to make sure this is captured in the minutes verbatim," then just say that when you're making your comments. Otherwise, the transcriptionist will likely paraphrase or condense down to get the general point across. Um, and so the the transcript is out there and we can certainly send that to you. We don't have an issue with that. Um, but I think in terms of consistency, this format and this structure is consistent with our other resident advisory boards. Um, and then our council meeting minutes are more that transcript version. And I want to compliment the team actually because I know we've gone back and forth on this and I I actually um I I um not speaking differently from what you're saying, but just saying in general as I read through this, I was really pleased with the level of detail

and it captured decisions. It captured any emotions that were made, but also I could remember what we talked about without saying gay said this and Patrick said this and this person said this, which I found quite tedious in the previous way that the minutes were written up last year. So, thank you for that. there could be some things that are critical that need to be called out from time to time, but in general, I thought was really helpful.

I appreciate that feedback and and I would say that um one of the things I think that um uh the board leaison are starting to do or send out the agendas with the materials in advance, you know, a week or so in advance. And so if you see things in the minutes that you're as you're reviewing them that you want to suggest as edits, please send those to us in advance. And so that way we can have a prepared revised or amended version. That way we can share with your colleagues on the board. Hey, here here are the three sentences or here's a couple of points that you wanted to add

it back in the minutes. Um and we can do that kind of before the meeting. U it doesn't mean that we can't do it at the meeting level, but just to keep things succinct and efficient. um that might be a good suggestion as well that if you if you do notice those um amendments or things that you feel like need to be added, let us know and we can bring that back before the board. Thank you. Thank you, Alan. All right. So, revisiting the motion on the floor as it currently stands to approve the um the meeting minutes from January 14th. Um there's a second as well. All in favor say I.

I.

I. All opposed?

Nay.

The motion passes 8 to one. That was just for January.

That was just for January. Discussion for the March meeting minutes. No discussion. Is there a motion to approve the March 11th 20 26 work session minutes?

I make a motion to approve.

Motion to approve. Is there a second?

I'll second.

Second. All in favor? I

I

All opposed.

Motion passes unanimously.

Thank you, Chris.

Next, we have Jenna to present on the sidewalk needs map update.

Hi, good afternoon. So, just a quick update and then I want to see if you all have any questions on this after I go through the slide, but we just completed our annual update to the sidewalk needs map. And on your on

your laptops, there's a link to the map in case you're interested in checking it out. But I'll kind of run through a highle overview of the changes or the updates that were completed in April. So, it now includes all of the constructed facilities from the past fiscal year. So those have been removed from the sidewalk needs inventory as well as any changes to the plan facility type. So if it's changed from sidewalk to side path and so on, that's reflected in the updates. And similarly with road classification. So if a roadway has changed from say collector to a thoroughfare, that's now reflected in the sidewalk needs map. And every about late summer, we update the cost estimates for these projects in preparation for CIP requests. So now the preliminary engineering ride ofway and construction cost estimates have been updated. We also look at the quarter mile um buffer that I mentioned during the last presentation reviewing the needs. So that analysis has been completed as well as the bike ped crashes in the town's high injury and high crash network that's evaluated as part of the the vision zero effort over the past year and it now includes the latest existing and proposed bus stop bus stops and then the go apex ridership is reflected in the scoring as well and then the f funding status is included on there. So, all of the green lines on that map show the projects that are either funded locally or by the state through um the state's projects in their 10-year plan or in their five-year plan, excuse me. And then we've added one scoring criteria, the length. So, projects that are a quarter mile or less in length receive additional points in the sidewalk needs inventory. And that was really to consider the the kind of feasibility and looking at the cost. So it would be more fe likely more feasible and cost effective to approach those to fund those shorter sidewalks. So a new element was added this year.

Any questions?

Can you repeat what you were just saying about I I just didn't quite catch what you were saying about the the

quarter mile.

Yep. So we added a new scoring part of the scoring criteria was length added this year. So pro sidewalk gaps that are quarter mile or less receive additional points.

Okay.

Yeah.

Any comments or questions for Jenna?

I do have one question, not about the map specifically, but about a sidewalk issue that I've noted in the town. Okay. Okay.

And I didn't know if this was an appropriate time to bring that up. Is that

uh Yeah, we'll probably connect you. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. And we'll see what how how to handle it. Yeah.

Um the new parking lot on Saunders Street across from the police department.

Okay.

Um there is a crosswalk and a stretch of sidewalk, but it does not connect into that parking lot nicely. There's no curb cut down the the um dirt incline.

Okay. I I know the town is working on adding a stairwell from the parking lot down near the crosswalk. I can connect you with the project manager because there are some plans to improve that area. You're talking about from the Saunders lot to Salem to to Saunders Street.

Okay. You're talking about a connection there, a curb ramp.

Okay. I was hoping it would be a ramp because I know there are handicap spaces that as you pull in, face the police department and if you're trying to get from those handicapped spaces to the police department for business, whatever your needs are, um you either have to go to either end of the parking lot because you can't get down the dirt hill and a staircase obviously would not be a wheelchair user um to be able to navigate that or even with a walker it might be challenging if there's just a staircase versus a ramp.

Okay. Okay. If they're if they'll be willing to consider that in whatever upgrade they're doing.

Yeah. I'll connect you with the person managing that because to see if that's

the same location that we're looking at the that the improvements underway and we'll I'll coordinate with Chris and we'll follow up.

Okay. Well, thank you.

Any other questions?

Thank you.

All right. Uh moving to the next agenda item. Shannon to give an update on the manager's recommended budget overview. All right. So this group had talked about having an interest in informing the capital improvement plan and the development of the budget. It's something that came up um during our action planning. Um, since we are deeply in budget development season, I want to go ahead and take an opportunity this meeting to share with you um, what was included and what was not included in the manager's recommended budget. I'm only focusing on transportation projects. I'm not the person to give you input on financial analysis or tax rates or anything like that. So this is just the transportation what was included and not included. Um the budget is not done. So it's um you know under consideration by town council. Um there is still an opportunity for a public hearing. I put the date here. It's May 28th. Um, there's also an email address so you can, you know, email comments to budget staff if you have them or if there's anything that the group wanted to send forward. Um, there are still opportunities.

So, um, I'm dividing the slides between capital projects and operational projects. And so, what starts what kind of starts this process is staff requests. So the planning department and the transportation uh infrastructure and development department work on requests for funding and then that is um considered through a a detailed process. Um and this is what's been included in terms of capital projects at this point. So there's a lot there's a lot of great projects going forward. Um the uh annual improvements for go apex have been included. Um just to orient you to my table, I've listed the project in the first column, the requested amount in the second column, which phase we've requested. So you know capital projects are multi-phase projects beginning with feasibility, then design, property acquisition, and then finally construction. Um and then if if we are anticipating any kind of contributing funds um that you know might support what's requested that's in the last column. So we have um included in the budget our annual go apex bus stop improvements for route one. Um also you know a big project is the new bus stops for u modified route one, route two and route three. Um the annual pavement management project, Apex Peakway North widening, that's from Center Street to Old Raleigh Road. Um the acquisition phase only for that project. Uh two railroad crossing improvements and sidewalk extensions. That's uh at Center Street into downtown and Cadam Street. Um and then Jesse Drive phase one. You

may not know where Jesse Drive is right now. Um, but it connects 1010 um to Oh, what's the new road name? Anybody?

55.

Reliance. Yeah, it's Reliance. Thank you. Uh, from Reliance to 1010 is phase one. Eventually, it will connect all the way to 55. Um so major project and then improvements at Apex Peakway and Tingen which is a problematic intersection design funds for that. Um so you see a lot of the projects that are moving forward have some funding attached to them whether it was um you know included in the bond referendum that was approved by voters. uh POW bill is uh funding that we get to help with roadway maintenance and then the CFAP that's our community funding area program through Wake Transit. What's not been included at this point and and I do want to say um there are projects that are not included across all disciplines, you know, in the budget. It's not just transportation. and it's a just regionwide difficult budget year. Um so we had a a small sidewalk project on Wimberly Road um with a little bit of developer fee and Lou um that's not moving forward at this time. Also not included was a traffic signal at Richardson Road and Core Banks. Although I understand that town council has asked for that specific project to be looked at to see if it can move forward. Um the next phase of our wayfinding project and um the S-line mobility hub phase one, that's our downtown u mobility hub uh which will support all these bus routes going forward. Um that's currently not included. We asked for design funds

although my understanding is that if we do get the 100% funding through Wake Transit as we are expecting then a budget amendment can be considered because we have to pay for that upfront. It's a reimbursement type project. Okay. And then um operational projects um our go apex operations will continue to be funded at the level that we have you know increased in April um and we have the 65% reimbursement through the community funding area program. Uh there are four funding for four locations serving um our walk to school routes for c crosswalk beacon replacements and upgrades. That's um push the button, the light comes on, you know, helps to create the safe crossing there. And then we have funding identified to support our vision zero um program which includes traffic safety counter measures um to help support that overall effort to eliminate uh traffic safety related deaths. and then not included um the mobility solutions study. So that was identified in the apex transit prioritization study. Um I've been told we need a different name for that one. It's looking at things like microtransit, you know, strategies that would serve areas and people that um are currently not served by our fixed route. This is another one where if that um wake transit funding comes through, a budget amendment would be considered to provide that funding to move that forward. Uh there are some crosswalk beacon replacements that are not included. Um

and then additional purchase of equipment for um signals not included. So that's a quick summary. There's a lot there, but I want to go ahead and get it in front of this group. Um, and I'm happy to try to answer any questions that you might have, but I just want to bring you back to those opportunities for input to town council and staff. As followup, could we see the line items that go within the 1.5 million for go apex operations? That's a huge chunk. So, um, we could provide more details, but it's everything related to Go Apex. It's the doortodoor. Um, it's the fixed route and it is the, um, marketing, education, and outreach funding to support that transit route.

I personally very interested in seeing how that breaks down to more specific costs if that can be done. And are you assuming flat statistics for paratransit or that door-to-door service passenger counts might go up?

We assume a certain um increase in passenger counts because those are, you know, federally required trips. We need to make sure that we're able to fund those.

What's the percentage of increase you anticipate?

Do you remember off hand Katie increase in door-to-door trips? We'd have to get back to you on that. I have a question that's probably more for council member Zerman. Uh are do you have any insight as to why the traffic signal at Richardson Road and Core Banks was not submitted in the manager's recommended recommended budget?

Um I don't know the specific reason. Um it it's in the plan but it's in 27. So that's that's kind of where it's hiding right now. Um, like Shannon was saying, uh, there was a request made by Council

Member Mafy to pull that into the fiscal 26 27 year, so into the next fiscal year. It's only $100,000 at this point. Um, so we're looking to see if we can accommodate it. Um, you know, by and large it's been a bit of a challenge to to make a a budget that's uh um meets the priorities of of of the town uh and keep tax rates in in check. And so, you know, some things just have to kind of get p pushed a little bit to to make some some room for for other things. So anyway, like there's still debate on on that uh on that one in particular because we do believe it's it's a high priority um intersection, you know, that's that we're seeing some some traffic issues. Um but I can I can only speculate after the uh the reasons that the manager had for not including that.

Okay. Thank you. Now that Sweetwater area is just continue to grow and with more traffic.

Yeah. Um, as much as it's great to have the walkability, inevitably people have their cars. So, um, thank you.

Any other questions for Shannon on this topic?

Okay.

Like to make a comment uh if I may. um back in January when I first introduced myself to the new uh new board here and and kind of outlined a little bit of of you know our vision for these residential advisory boards. Um, one of the things I I said is that, you know, we are looking for a more increased role of of advisory boards, uh, including things where it comes to budget planning and and so I know that, you know, we're getting a presentation today. Um, you know, there's clearly some things in and out of the the budget. Um, what I would love to see as a future agenda item as we go into, you know, the November meeting or the January meeting is that

this board will uh generate some specific recommendations to the manager and to town council as to what you would like to see or what what what you think is important for the town, you know, based on your role on this board, right? The feedback that you're getting from our residents. Um, again, it's just another input into into the process. Um, but instead of kind of being a passive participant and and and receiver of the information, I would really like to turn this board into more active participant really driving certain investments as the town is is making them. There's a couple that are kind of fixed and we're going to do them anyway, right? Like like pavement maintenance, we're going to do it, right? Uh, even if you tell me not to. Um but there's other things especially around like you know the the public transit uh bike ability, walkability uh you know problem intersections for um uh for for pedestrians or or bikes uh the ramp that was just mentioned out of the parking lot. Like those are things that you know if if these kinds of of points of feedback you know bubble up through this board and then we can kind of package them into a list of recommendations for the manager to consider. Right. I really would like for this board to be a more active participant in that process.

Thank you.

One more comment. I'm hyper sensitive to the hostility expressed by some citizens who are opposed to any tax rate and say that the most obvious thing to cut is the bus. And what they say is, you know, you don't want to pay a million dollars for an empty bus. There's so much of that on social media. or I've had people say it to my face when they know I'm a bus person. So, I'm really interested in how we can try to control some of those costs. And that's why just having 1.5 million is a chunk, there's nothing to analyze there. I'm someone who thinks, for example, a route to the library rather than be full-on infrastructure and going every hour or every 30

minutes, some of that could be done with a shuttle, right? It's uh on Saturday afternoon and on Thursday evening just test how many people are actually going to ride public transit of any form to get to the Eva Perry Library. And I'm someone who really really wants library but I don't need to go there every 30 minutes. I have some sense that we just need to tackle this idea of relatively empty buses. And I'm someone who rides it, so I know it is often empty. There is a real reality to that. that when people see an empty bus go by, that in fact is true. And sometimes there's five people on there, but an average you see an awful lot of empty buses. And say one more thing about that is I know it's really expensive to put a bus shelter. I heard maybe $20,000, but I know there's other communities who are looking at cheaper versions of giving people some shade and rain or places where uh Habitat for Humanity volunteers or Boy Scouts build the bench. I'd like us to look at quick build citizen-led. I'm not opposed to advertising on bus shelters. I feel like a lot could be done to bring the prices down for transit so that the opposition and hostility people don't want to pay anything. People who want to get rid of the bus system altogether feel like something could be done to address that. It's very expensive. I think you pay when I did the math $16,000 for me personally to ride the bus. And when I went to Walmart, he paid 90 $90 to send me to Walmart to replace my weed whacker. And some of that's crazy, right? The subsidy per writer does feel out of control even for someone like me who's one of the rare beneficiaries of it.

Thank you, Elizabeth.

A quick question on the transportation capital project not included, and I may have missed it in the packet we received. What is the wayfinding phase two? Am I reading that right?

Yep. So wayfinding was a recommendation

um in both our previous transportation plan and our um comprehensive bicycle plan and it's basically signage. Um so the signs that you may have seen guiding people to downtown um into different parking lots, things like that. Um the overall wayfinding plan has signage recommended for the entire town. Um broken into phases. Um it's something that helps people find their way you know around town. Yeah. Find um you know find interesting places um promote different areas and just give it an overall welcoming sense of place to the town. um phase one. Um Jenna, do you want to talk about kind of where you're at with that project at all and what phase two would be? So, we're currently in phase one right now and that has gone out to bid and I think the contract went to council last month. So that's the first phase of downtown signage and then phase two is the downtown buildout. So that would be the next phase when funded. I think we'll probably be able to get through at least partial design with the current funding available. And then from there I I would have to look back at my notes, but it's townwide signage with directional signage and then we have a gateway phase in the future bicycle signage. So there's downtown gateways and townwide or town limit entryway gateways. So it's divided by kind of geography and sign type.

Thank you.

Any other questions or comments on this topic for Shannon?

All right. Now move into the meat of the agenda. Um, work plan review.

Okay, you ready to work? Um, so Chris prepared two attachments for you. I hope you've had a chance to look at them. Attachment A is really summarizing what we captured on the post-it notes at the last meeting um, and how we categorize them. So that's just a reference that's, you know, really capture capturing the discussion. Um we took that to create attachment B which we had um committed to doing to preparing the beginning of a framework for this meeting of what could be your work plan for FY27. Um so in this attachment you see um your post-it note ideas still in column B. So we retained all of that. how we categorize those in different groups. Um, and then Chris worked to give each of those more of a task description, you know, because we kept it very succinct in the post-it notes. So, gave things a little bit more of a description. Um, and then we work together to give a staff assignment of is this a high, medium, or low priority to start to get to what could be an FY27 work plan when we have about maybe five years of work on these notes. Um, and then we gave you a little bit of a justification of why we assigned it high, medium, or low. um identified a relative board level of effort, a relative staff level of effort, and kind of what we recommended as far as potential fiscal year. Um, so what I'd like to do is we've got the action that's requested. You may or may not be ready for that today, but that's the requested action to approve your

work priority task list. I was going to kind of run through what we saw as high priorities and then I've got a few questions that might guide discussion amongst the board. Um so I did slightly reorder this when we got to the presentation from what we put in the attachment just at least number one and number two um based on what was logical to me in terms of what really needs to be a high priority. Um so for number one I put um establish the working structure and refine board scope as a possible you know key item. Um since you guys have identified a lot of things you'd like to do and we had talked about you know maybe forming subcommittees or other organizational strategies to achieve your work plan. Um so that might be a high priority. Uh we had a lot of comments and um thoughts under developing and implementing a multimodal marketing campaign. Um under that we had promoting uh go apex in our regional routes trying to encourage ridership. Um there was discussion about identifying an opportunity to show appreciation to to bus operators. That's something that go carry is doing that we haven't done yet. um and try to you know facilitate those acts of appreciation each day for one week. Um we thought that might be something that the board could do even without much in involvement of staff that that might be something that you all could take on. Um and then town staff are already participating in Earthfest. It was great to have Gay and Jennifer join us this year. it really made a meaningful um difference to have residents talking to other residents instead instead of that staff resident interaction. So, we really appreciated that. Um so, that

might be another high priority to continue. Um also the go triangle, go pass signups um and bus tours. So, that's one and two. Number three was a big category and even though we had put the first two bullets under gather community input, as I was reading back through it, I thought these really might fit under more of the marketing and educational campaign. So, just wanted to put that out as a suggestion. Um, so under gathering community input, we had promoting transit service, especially to those with a high propensity to use transit. increasing board member involvement in promoting multimodal opportunities. Um and then the rest felt more like input gathering, collecting and analyzing community data um to ensure services are aligned with riders um with a high propensity to use transit. Promoting community input on the mobility hub design, promoting and participating in community outreach and engagement for the mobility solution study and promoting and participating in outreach for revisions to go apex route one. I think that's it. Yeah. Okay. Fourth priority for fisc year 27 um is making recommendations for long-term um infrastructure improvements. So that will be your participation in peak plan which includes street sections. We had some discussion about um modifying our street sections to be you know more complete streets multimodal. Uh we will be doing that with peak plan and so we would bring those to you for input. Um and then providing feedback on bicycle and pedestrian related amendments to the unified development

ordinance. That was number four. And then number five is um really getting at what we what Councilman Zaggerman brought up today, helping to prioritize infrastructure investments through providing recommendations on a capital improvement plan from what this board would like to see um and working to help secure grant funding. These are the discussion questions that I thought we could um could kind of guide your conversation around this topic. Um I'm happy to walk through those or Noah if you wanted to walk through those. Either way, I'm good.

Sure. Um want to defer to the board first. I know it's a long packet. Thank you staff for pulling all of this information succinctly. Uh really appreciate it. Um anyone initial comments on the prioritization? I know it's been a couple months. Any any ones that you feel like we should move up or down? Yes, Elizabeth.

For me, the there are urgent operational issues involving safety. It's a really steep boarding slope on the Arbach bus which is part of Go apex route one for vulnerable riders for elderly if they use a walker or a walking cane. Someone has tremors. People in their 80s are going through cancer treatment. For me, I use a roller cart because I have a injured right hand. All you can see is a partially amputated thumb, but the whole hand all the way up was injured by a bone infection. So to get I have to use a roller cart if I'm purchasing or hauling library books and it is so hard get up that steep boarding slope. This is to me a serious issue that's making it difficult for about 20% of people to use that bus. Like that's so serious and the steep slope is on here but it's really an issue of vehicle safety. The

latest thing, and I haven't told down staff this directly, but now some drivers are not letting passengers sit in the sideways facing seats. That little Arbuck bus, it only has 21 seats. Five of them face sideways. There's slippery vinyl. There's nothing to hold on to. And I heard that someone uh fell off it and had a concussion. Most those are the seats reserved for the elderly or disabled. Most of us would never sit there because if you go flying, you're going right down into that steep boarding slope and falling downwards to the door. There's electrical problems. There are so many problems with that bus. And then we have a second bus that's now in service to improve frequency. It's uh it's worse to my shock. The the boarding slope is medium, but the old bus, it can it rattles and because there is a detour through a downtown construction zone, the buses are so far behind schedule that they're having to race and drive faster than that little vehicle can go. So, and this is kind of shocking. There's bus drivers who tell you to hold on. And you don't have metal poles on that bus. you don't really have anything to hold on to and people are describing going airborne, right? They're just such problems for safety and this is a tough thing for us to handle beyond pushing staff, pushing the council, pushing go carry, getting a really clear message out that it is not acceptable to have a dangerous vehicles out on the road. And then the related issue is I think at this point the only solution is really to increase paratransit for go carry. Anyone 60 age 60 or older who's a resident is automatically eligible for door-to-door service. And if we had that policy it would take care of the people who are being hurt most for this by the

steep slope. These two issues par transit eligibility and a dangerous boarding slope are connected. So, I just can't see how that could possibly not be the highest priority even if all we're doing is being a repeated voice of not let this subject drop.

Yeah. So, let me interject and I apologize. Those were identified as high priorities in the spreadsheet. I did something when I was making the slides, but we um did put focus on improving safety um as high priorities for FY27. So, both mitigating the bus slope safety concerns and the um suggestion of promoting and encouraging participating in safe routes to school interviews.

Shannon, can you identify like by row number?

Six and seven.

Okay.

Six and seven. Yes.

On the larger sheet here,

attachment B. I it's this

I have notes on this.

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.

It's the same thing.

All good.

Yeah. So, that that is uh that is recommended to be a high priority. I just missed it in my slides.

And I also recommend that this might be like a subcommittee like somebody like, you know, a committee that that specifically looks at current safety challenges with the bus routes that we have, right? and and not just sit here and and and like um list them off, right? But but actually take that back and say here's the challenge, right? Here's the the policy recommendation or what we're asking for, right? So that we can turn the the feedback into more of an actionable item, right? Be that for council, be that for go carry, right? It's like whoever, you know, needs to be the action owner, right? so that we can actually you know take that forward in a more structured fashion.

I do have a quick question about that. Would any changes to car's paratransit regulations or application requirements have to go through carri town council

any changes to carri? So I I do agree that this is probably a good topic for like a focused structured discussion. Um the town of Apex eligibility in terms of who is eligible for paratransit is different than the town of Kerry as um as Bruner was saying because they offer it to seniors and Apex does not. There's a lot to consider with that including the comments about the overall cost of transit. Um so I think that would be you know a focused discussion probably not getting into the details today. age counts as a senior to carry

60.

Is it 60? Okay.

But yes, the that is um you know in concurrence with what the staff recommendation was to make that a high priority item.

Any other discussion on items that were deemed as high uh or low that need or would like to be adjusted? I I don't I did read through all of this in advance. Um and it's all great stuff. It my impression is it's a lot for one year for a board that meets by monthly. Um but it could be that some of this could be accomplished together. I mean, it's definitely there's work in there's a lot around marketing the transit to the town and trying to increase wrership and and that sort of thing. Um, I don't have any particular recommendations about demoting anything from high to medium. They're they're all important. I just want us to be thoughtful about how we group the work together so that we could achieve it.

No, absolutely. I think it's a very ambitious uh list of priorities and certainly multi-year initiatives. Um

I think that's one of the big pieces of the the subcommittees that I'm excited to to formulate in the near future to to really get work done u simultaneously um so that we aren't waiting until every other month to discuss and and we can work more directly with our initiatives. is the idea that the committees would break down like according to these categories. So we'd have a multimodal marketing committee and a

that is one that is one alternative. I mean there's also the idea of of blending uh subcommittees to have more than one focus. Uh some of these may not need a subcommittee but I think in general the implementation of subcommittees will help facilitate this work at a faster pace. and I missed the last um work meeting, so my apologies for that. And I'm just wondering when I'm looking at the create policy for ebike use, is there is there a policy currently? I just know that with that 15year-old um being killed recently um that that seems to be becoming more of a topic for action, an actionable topic. Just

some some guidelines.

Yeah. And Jenna might want to speak to this, but the police department has worked on um making sure that the laws are understood in terms of of ebike use and um what is legal, you know, and what is safe safety campaigns as well. Um so there has been work on that. And then kind of the other side of that um is there's been consideration um multiple times for ebike share programs. Um and that has

not moved forward. Um so at this time staff didn't recommend that as a high priority, but the the safety campaigning is something that the police department has has worked on. Jenna, do you have anything to add to that from your work in that arena? and you do have a microphone if you don't want have to stand up every time I I agree with everything you said. The one thing I would add is I got I received an update from our I think assistant county attorney that at the state level they're working on classifying the three ebike the three ebike classes to put that in state law and then municipalities can can utilize that because there's class one through three and they mean different things and there's a lot of difference between an ebike and neoto but that doesn't restrict municipalities from adding their own rules but right now on greenways. They're technically not supposed to be allowed. We have a 10 mph speed limit. And then bikes aren't allowed on sidewalks in the heart of downtown, but otherwise they're allowed on sidewalks. Okay. Uh so revisiting section three under gather community input, I think Shannon recommended moving the first two items to number two. anyone in uh opposed to moving them to number two after reading them? I I think they align more with the second bullet, but welcome others discussion points as well. Everyone in agreement? Oh, sense.

Okay. And then

as we work through these things, some of

these we may say, "Oh, this makes more sense for this."

Sure.

Group. So,

and then the last discussion point uh on this list, is this a reasonable scope of work? Depends on what your definition of reasonable is. It's worth trying.

Exactly. Um I think that's what we're tasked to hear. I know council member Zerman is is wanting us to provide input to the the staff and and board as well. So this agenda lends itself to to giving us the opportunity to do that. Um, I think what would probably be prudent is to have a conversation as to like what what the subcommittees are that we want to form probably based on on kind of the the five bullet points that we just looked at, right? Does it make sense to wrap a subcommittee around each of these or do we want to do three subcommittees and save the rest for later or two subcommittees and the rest we will address as a board because I think that's is going to dictate to some degree how much work can be done right because these subcommittes can meet outside of regular scheduled meetings you know that that need to be noticed and everything right can be a little bit more nimble to move stuff forward um that said I also want to recognize that these are volunteer hours on your part, right? And I don't want to make a full-time job out of this for you guys unless you want to do that yourself, right? So, I think it's it's a bit of a um a balancing act. Um I I think the work plan is ambitious and I I really appreciate that. Right. Um also, there's really no um you know, not to kind of spill on the floor if uh if you know, some of the work doesn't get done within a year's time frame, right? So uh I think it's really up to the boards here to decide how to structure the work, how to structure the board themselves, right with the subcommittees and then drive a

certain you know work effort and see what's what the subcommittes can commit to versus um you know what what needs to be a longer term play.

Could I make a suggestion?

Um I think it's 42 items for somebody who's just walking into the room first time. and the time frame and the time frame we have left to accomplish

with the with your I appreciate your comment about being volunteer hours. I think it's probably not realistic. This is just one person's opinion um who has not really uh been part of the workshop before. I think we probably want to figure out out of the 42 like you were talking about the safety concern. Uh that's probably things like that. There may be others. Out of the 42 list, if you view it with a different lens and say out of the 42, these 10 are non-negotiable.

Can I clarify something? I don't think we're talking about 42.

Oh, okay.

There are 42 on the list that we came up with in the working session that we did in March, but the ones that um are captured here is a subset of that. It might

there's 42 on the list here, but I do want to call out that yes, that staff did did kind of put some time frames on it. So, not everything is 2027, right? So, and again, like you know,

right, if you look in column H where it says 2027,

those are the ones you've captured here. Is that right, Shannon? On the presentation.

So, so what what we've captured is everything with a high priority. So um column D was my focus and what we yeah what we

but for 2027

yes

column H is 2027

and so there's 17

well actually some of them say ongoing

right some of them are 27 some 28 some ongoing

okay

yeah and and so you know ultimately I

thought what we identified as a high priority may be reasonable still

it's 17 items

got much different. Thank you.

Yeah, sure. It's a lot of data to

Yeah, it's a lot of good work. I'm assuming

the first two pages. Um, so the the actually six categories including the safety category.

It's still it's still very aggressive,

very ambitious as you said.

Okay. This is going to sound harsh, but what keeps going through my head when I see marketing as top priority is what exactly are we're marketing? Like as a buzz person, I don't think this is the time to take people on tours of the current version of Go Apex. Whereas I think uh Go Carry Route 9, downtown Apex to go carry, I think that's really marketable even to more affluent people are skeptical of the bus. But go Apex at the moment there are so many barriers to wrership. There's so many problems. It's hard to see convincing anyone except people who are really economically desperate to consider that bus. Sorry, that's that's the reality of it now. I don't own a car and I don't even want to ride it anymore. Right. And October, I was happy about the bus and I thought it was getting better, but I don't think people understand exactly how much the rider experience has deteriorated. Yeah, I don't think I disagree with you, Elizabeth, because I think the detours, given the current construction situation and hearing that the drivers may be driving a little more, not aggressively, but a little less safe, may not be the best time to put brand new riders on the bus and go, "Here, climb the ramp, slide across the street, and see if we can get you to Walmart in 20 minutes."

Thank you for hearing that. Right.

Maybe not the greatest marketing campaign we could aim to do, but we do have to make transit attractive to

people that wouldn't necessarily look to transit that can drive their personal vehicles wherever they want to go in the area in the community to make it I I think the 30 minute run time is somewhat improving that attractiveness but we just have to continue to work on getting the construction projects completed and then think maybe about those tours when we can actually give them the true route experience the safe route experience

absolutely if I could comment on that I think first of all the construction caused a lot of issues but that's scheduled to be done I think in October

December now

probably November December now

November December anyway this year

and it will take us time to come up with a plan this is not actually implement a plan except for the bus driver appreciation week it's to create a plan if I remember the wording correctly so um I remember us talking several times about some of the push In fact, you were talking about the cost, Elizabeth, and the push back on the cost. Part of that is the per rider cost for every rider we get on that bus. That per rider cost is going to go down, which makes it more palatable to our residents and our taxpayers. At least it does to me as a taxpayer. And I think that, you know, right now the the numbers are uh high unless you understand what we're dealing with and why they are what they are. But with the change to every half hour service, it certainly has made it more feasible for me to use. Um, and by the time we would come up with what we wanted our marketing campaign or whatever you want it to be, um, by the time we came up with that one to implement it, then I I think the issues you're talking about, not all of them, the safety issues and all that are probably harder to solve, but the construction would be over. We'd be back to our regular routes.

I also didn't realize until tonight and I don't know why in looking at the bus plan I should have realized that it only ran one direction in that circulation through town.

Route one does.

Yeah. That it does not run in the other direction. And I know we may not have the financial means to do that in the near future, but I wonder if that could help with wrership knowing that if I get on at Town Hall, I can get over to Beaver Creek or Walmart, but still come back in a shorter circuit than getting on and riding all the way through town.

Yeah, we've talked about that in the past as on the priority list of potential future improvements.

But it sounds like the buses may not be in good enough shape to clearly make some of that happen. I just tell you a little story of a woman whose story is much like mine. Medical bills and expenses of running a house. She's early retirement and just couldn't afford things. Couldn't fix her car. So, wanted to test the bus before she gave up on the car entirely. She boarded near downtown and asked for a a route schedule and map. And we don't even have that, right? There's no printed guide. There's nothing that you can hand people when they got on the bus. And uh that was bad. Just bad from the very beginning. And then we started turning to go up north to Bay Creek when she said, "Oh, I thought this bus went to Walmart." We had explained, "Well, to go south, you got to go north." And she just looked at us and then, you know, you finally get to there is no actual Walmart stop. It's at a a senior facility. And she's like, so we had to tell her this is how where you get off. You there is no Walmart. You could just imagine like trying to convince someone that this was an efficient way to handle your errands. to go to car. I'm positive I've never seen her on the bus since. But even though she couldn't afford to fix her car, you kind of see that Go Apex is currently designed. And I appreciate there's a brilliance to it as a social service route. If the constraint is you've got one hour and you want to get low-income people to as many possible destinations, the food pantry, the medical clinic, the Walmart,

the Dollar Tree. In that way, it's brilliant. But trying to get other people who don't have financial desperation, people who have options to try it, it's really just the truth is it's it's so frustrating on daytoday basis.

How far away are you from the Walmart when you stop at the senior living center?

About as far as you would be to get to the bus stop at what's that building called?

It's a couple hundred yards. Like you have to cross um

be the peakway. Yeah.

So, you have to walk a little bit across the peakway

and then walk across the part the parking lot.

Um,

and there's a steep slope there and then it's through the parking lot. It's a long way.

May I suggest that that we're kind of getting off topic here a little bit. So, like not not not discounting the the issues that that you're bringing up, but I think that this is a perfect example of what a a committee or subcommittee can can focus on. And then again, like bring back some some recommendations. Does that bus stop need to move? Do we need to push it more towards Walmart, right? Uh, you know, what's what's what's a better service area? Is it Walmart or is it the the senior facility there?

Uh, so those are are concrete things that, you know, can come back as as proposals that we can then work into our our future plan. If there are safety issues with with the bus, okay, let's let's list them out, see if, you know, with staff we can, you know, get some improvements made, maybe get some other vehicles on the road, you know, whatever the the possibilities are. um because we're kind of drifting away from from the topic of of conversation as to how we're going to structure the the work and what kind of work this this board wants to commit to. Again, I I hear the concerns and I I I believe they're they're real. Um I I think there's a better form to to address those.

Chair, what's the question in front of us right now? I don't know if there's a question per se other than um

discussion before we move to uh adopt the priorities task list. I wanted to allow time for continued discussion before uh moving to a possible motion.

And and if there's additional um structure that you would like us to bring back as far as a recommendation, you know, you can request that work from staff too. You know, if if you want to discuss subcommittees amongst yourselves, if you want us to further identify what might work well for subcommittee structure at a future meeting, um we're happy to provide that as well once we have these are the priorities that the board wants to work on.

School year 27 is starting July 1, right?

Yes. Yes.

Yes. So, which is why I I don't want this discussion to to stop, but also don't want to impede the adoption of the priority task list so that we can hit the ground running.

Can can we work backwards? Maybe if we need to get something in the fiscal 2027 plan, when do the staff need the decision by

and then realistically figure out how many points, how many of these are realistically accomplish because if you need it by June, we only got half a month left. I'm just making up a hypothetical situation. So when do you need when does the staff need our inputs to be incorporated into 2027 plan? So this is a new endeavor having a work plan for this board. There's currently, you know, the way it's worked in the past is staff has crafted the agendas um reviewed them with the the chair and vice chair for approval and we've really identified what needs to come before the board. there was a reorganization um done by

town council and I think a desire for the board to generate more of um their priorities, you know, and and and create, you know, more of the creation. Um and so we've just started this work plan development process. Um, but this work plan would guide the board's work from July 1, 2026 to June 30th, 2027. Your next meeting will be in July. Um so it's you can adjust this work plan as you move forward but if we have like a good set of this is our intent um and then we can kind of structure how might the board approach these items that will give us a good starting point. So I think m and I'm sorry I'm not I don't want to take over the meeting here but I think it's going to be more instead of focusing on these 17 odd priorities that we talked that you guys have developed I think it's probably much a different way of approaching this could be let's set up a subcommittee structure that works regardless of what the priorities are right and then see which priority rolls into which bucket so that as we move forward we're able to make sure this goes to committee one, this goes to committee 2, this goes to committee 3 instead of narrowing us ourselves to we only have these 17 to work on. So let's figure it out and then at a future point we redistribute the whole company structure depending on what comes up. There could be one way to look at it. Again, I've not read through it in detail so I can't really speak to it. I'm just thinking of more if you make it a plan for 2027 and there's a lot of 2027s here and a lot of these would require budget approvals. So let's say if you were to fix the security items that you're bringing up and they're waiting for us to decide and it requires dollars, we're already late for 2027 because the budget would have already been approved. Right? So is the

effort of us discussing in a working committee going to lead into a fruitful result or we're just going to come up with a great plan but then the response is going to be 2028 because the budget's no longer there. So how do we address that? If you guys have already discussed it, great. If not, I think that's probably what's going to determine how frequently do meet what do we need to do on or we just be these two are 2027. Everything else is 2028. Again, making up the numbers. I'm not saying only two move or five move or 10 move. I think we just got to figure out the parameters to make sure we're effective in those working committees and we're delivering results. I'm sure I would love to grab drinks with you guys and talk about it, but if the outcome is more let's make sure that we can make a difference, it's going to be more about the efficiency.

Yeah.

You go.

Um I hear what you're saying and I agree that we should figure out the working groups. We invested a lot of time, energy, and thought, effort, and I know you weren't able you weren't here yet, so

totally get that um to to think through these things that this group should work on. And we have um understandably so spent a lot of time over the last few months, six months talking about process and how this committee or board will do what it does. I would like for us to get to work.

Makes sense.

And I think it's not going to be perfect. Let's dive in. Let's get working in these groups. and we'll raise our hand and say, "H, this seems weird. This shouldn't be in this working group. It seems like it should be over here." Or, "Gosh, this seems like it's going to cost a lot of

money. Are we going to be able to do that? Should we invest any more time?"

Sure.

And that and the staff is really great and they're very available. So, that's at least my thought process. And I know you were trying to assist.

Yeah, you're fine. I apologize for interrupting you. Um, thinking back to our March work session, I know as we came up with a lot of these priorities and shifted our post-it notes around, there seemed to be like overarching categories that were that were established in March. And I don't know if those would be good ways of establishing those subcommittees like I think one was like safety. So some of the things that are high, medium, and low might may fit under there. And I I read through the packets. I I missed the subcommittee divisions if they're already established. We can certainly go with what the town staff has set them up as. Um but I I do think I agree with Kay that to go ahead and get started working to try and make some forward progress on some of these things that seem to be uh recurring needs and projects and marketing the system so we actually get ridership. No, I absolutely and just looking at the clock at 6:22, just being cognizant of everyone's time, I think we have consensus that list of priorities uh and tasks is um a strong one. Um so from my perspective a scenario is to adopt this priority list as is and then opening up in our new business to go ahead and establish subcommittees that align with the buckets that Shannon put together in the slide deck. So I know Patrick and others have commented about possibly aligning subcommittees with the buckets and given everyone's desire then perhaps new business this evening is an opportunity to go ahead and move forward with that

and we don't have to do it all at once right like we can do two two committees

now like if if safety is the thing that we want to get on like right now let's start with with with that one right and so just an observation the six categories that the that Shannon just presented do align with the the categories that that were established that are kind of on this page. Uh the seventh and eighth category are purpose and and duties of this board, right? Which include the the structure, right? We're kind of talking about that right now. And then there was kind of a technology and u component that we haven't really you know didn't come forward in the prioritization just yet. So like by and large uh I think we are talking about the same thing kind of aligning to those uh those big categories those big buckets.

Okay. Great. Is there a motion to adopt the MTA priority task list for fiscal year 27?

So moved.

Is there a second?

Second.

Second. All in favor say I. I.

All opposed nay.

The motion passes 7 to one. All right. Uh, next item on the agenda, Chrisformational Updates.

Thank you, Shannon.

Thank you, vice chair. Um, I do not have any specific highlights or updates concerning theformational update uh handout, but just want to provide the space for either any discussion the board would like to have internally or direct any comments or questions to staff during this time on any of the items within that document. So, I'll just turn over to you.

Thank you, Chris. I do have a question. I know the increase was marginal, but in March on uh slide 29 of our packet, it does look like the March ridership increased in terms of

boardings per trip from 3.16 in February to 3.59 in March. Is there other than the weather improving perhaps, is there any um understanding of why that marginal increase occurred? Katie, do you want to kind of respond to that comment first?

I think that's

um I think the weather probably had a big impact. Um there wasn't anything in particular that I think would have singularly contributed to the writership increasing except perhaps more people learning about go carry route nine and being able to facilitate transfers between go apex route one and go carry route 9. Um that's the guess I have at this point.

Okay. Because I know Earthfest was obviously in April. I wasn't sure of what other events offhand were might have been in March to contribute an increased ridership, but it sounds like nothing sticks out or jumps to mind.

Go ahead.

I'm deeply skeptical of these numbers. Things have changed in the way they've been counting them. And Katie might have an update, but during the past few months, the drivers have been alternating between a clipboard, paper and pen, a sort of computer little thing that they type numbers in. And then what I heard is that they were doing the automatic boarding count. So that's part of it. I heard that there was double counting. It's hard to understand that happened, but this there's just no way that it's true. It's a small increase, right? But if you're averaging it up, this would sort of imply that between, you know, zero and seven passengers and there's a lot of zero and one and two rider loops, but there certainly aren't higher ones. It's not shocking anymore to have four people already on the bus when you board. So, we are seeing that like four people isn't a surprise, but

to get up much higher than that just doesn't happen. And then the thing that I really question on this is uh the on-time performance at that improving that much. I'll tell you what it looks like to me is on-time performance is is much worse. It's down in maybe 65 to 70%. But as I mentioned, the drivers are speeding up. What's happening is the drivers are getting treated at the transfer and layover point. Our drivers don't get a lunch break. So they count on having seven minutes at the municipal building to get out of the seat, stretch, make cell phone calls, and eat a banana. And they are completely getting ripped off that way. Sometimes the bus isn't even circling into the municipal building. It doesn't have time to do that. So drivers are going as fast as they can to get some layover time so they can eat a snack. The buses aren't pulling to the curb. They aren't kneeling. They aren't offering to extend the ramp. the situation is really worse on there and it is the detour forcing that in many ways. So skeptical if they're managing to catch up. It's because the driving is a lot faster. Where I normally sit, there's only one good seat on the bus is another thing about that horrible Arbok. And you can see the speedometer. Normally, if the bus doesn't hit any delays and they don't pick up many passengers, they have to drive really slow so they don't get ahead of schedule. So, they creep along at 20 miles an hour. And that's why cars get so, you know, don't want to get stuck behind the bus. But now, because they're trying to get ahead of those detour barriers, the car the buses are driving like 45 miles per hour, which doesn't seem anything if you have a nice car. But on these rinky dink little buses, man, that's why you're getting airborne. You're getting thrown around. It's going twice as fast as it used to to make up time. So, that was a long sermon on that, but I have a lot more I can say about this. Wrership is going up a bit because of economic desperation. Like, I am seeing new faces or people

just telling you a lot of it is you can't afford to repair their car. So, because of that, but for regular riders, I don't think our count is going up at all. And now what's going to happen? April, May, and June, we're splitting these numbers in half, right? Because there's two buses circulating. It's on a 30 minute rotation. I The last thing I'll say is I recently rode and a driver was on their third hour in the shift and I was their first human being. Empty bus, first loop, empty bus, second loop, one person, me, on loop three. It's the reality of the bus is different than the paperwork looks like. So, can we take that back as an action for staff to clarify how these writers are counted?

We can.

How come the costs are no longer showing on uh doortodoor?

Okay, I'll defer to you on that one. Or if it's something that we need to get back to, we can also do that. Oh, I was curious on the uh traffic engineer response to crosswalk questions. You just orient me to where you are.

I think I'm getting to page 34 of the PDF. For example, what's the duration of the walk signal at the intersection of Hunter Street and North Salem Street? It's 4 seconds of a walk sign and 7 seconds of flashing don't walk across. This intersection it just getting here for this meeting. This intersection is

always hard to get to. It makes my ability to get to uh downtown bus stops more difficult. You really get stuck at that intersection. And this response is so car centric. But where there's a little tiny screenshot pasted in about pedestrian timing, it says a slower walking speed may be used if appropriate at specific locations. And I think that's what exactly it is. is this is an intersection near the senior center and it's also right where kids are coming out of the skateboard park that the the it's a intersection a traffic signal that's really hostile to people on foot. Everything favors the car. It's hard to get across it. And when I was coming here, two teenagers jaywalked across and kind of smirked at me because I was standing there walking the says and I agree. I think I'm a fool. You're a fool to follow the law there. you might as well just run it because it's just so unlikely that you're going to get that uh intersection light. You really get stuck there. And I think anywhere near schools, near parks, near senior center, we need to rethink the pedestrian timing. And then the related issue is the walking speed they use is based on, you know, healthy able-bodied adults, not necessarily seniors.

And they try it on crutches once to see if they can make it across in 4 seconds or 11 seconds. We yeah we need to do some testing for different walking speeds.

I did have a question that what caught my eye when I was reviewing the packet in advance as well Elizabeth and I had a question about it said u the the minimum of four to seven seconds. to just a question of an inquiry for later answer whether that could be adjusted because it is a quick light um uh whether you have any mobility issues or not it's a really quick light

yeah my memory serves me this was a conversation um based on a previous presentation at the dinner meeting and I don't know if you have a initial reaction response but we can

four to seven could it go up to seven

right

or or could we add to that a little bit sounds like it's at the minimum and I get that probably because it's a secondary I don't know the right terminology but it's not the main drag

um going that way but given all the comments Elizabeth made I would echo those that this might be an intersection

we can share that feedback with our traffic engineers our signals are managed by NC DOT so anything would need to be coordinated with NC DOT

we give them feedback as well in any capacity

she just sorry I couldn't hear you engineers Okay.

Any other comments?

Okay. Thank you, Chris.

All right. Uh we will move into other business. Any topics folks would like to discuss? I think we should discuss the formation of our working groups or whatever we're going to call them.

Agree.

Just a point of clarification or maybe reminder if I remember correctly, the groups need to be four or less in size. Is that correct? Otherwise, it's an official board meeting.

I would have to refer back to our town policy. That number sounds accurate.

That would have to be less than quorum or less than a majority. be less than a majority because that would give us a quorum which means it's official meeting that has to be publicized

right

okay uh so I believe excluding establishing working structure and refining board scope as a committee unto itself uh it looks like the categories or buckets are safety marketing community input long-term infrastructure improvements and prioritize uh recommend recommending long-term infrastructure

improvements and prioritizing infrastructure investments. So the first thought is

No, where are you reading that? I'm so sorry. Where is that list that you're reading?

Oh, I from the slide deck that Shannon shared earlier.

She grabbed those.

She bucketed. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome.

So any thoughts on combining those buckets? or leaving them as standalone.

May I make a staff suggestion? I would recommend combining the community outreach and community input categories because you would accomplish a lot of those activities at the same types of events. And I I think there would need to be a lot of coordination between those subcommittee members if you separated them.

No, that makes a lot of sense. Along those lines, would you recommending recommend combining the group that discusses recommending long-term infrastructure improvements with prioritizing infrastructure investments?

Yes.

So, with that input in mind, thanks Shannon. It seems like there would be three subcommittees for us. Safety, marketing slash community input, and infrastructure planning for lack of a better word. Any thoughts, questions, comments?

So, safety, marketing, community involvement, whatever, and then infrastructure. Yes.

Do we need official names like subcommittee for safety, subcommittee for marketing and community input, subcommittee for infrastructure?

You can name it whatever you want. It's

yours.

Okay.

Sounds good to me. I was going to say

blue team, the red team, whatever.

Safety, maybe community involvement and

safety, community involvement, and infrastructure. Okay. So, do we need specific motions to create these subcommittees?

With with one motion, I think.

Okay. Oh, just one motion. So, is there a motion to create a subcommittee for safety, a subcommittee for uh community outreach, and a subcommittee for infrastructure?

Make a motion.

Motion. Is there a second?

Second.

Second. Uh all in favor I.

All opposed. Motion unanimously passes. All right. Go team.

Um okay. Now in terms of having folks be on subcommittees. So starting with the safety subcommittee. Are there any folks who would like to be on the safety subcommittee? Elizabeth, Jennifer. Okay, great. Anyone else?

Feel like we need Arno.

So, I'm technically not part of the board, right? So, I appreciate it. Um, and I'll be happy to, you know, attend meetings where where needed, but technically I'm not an official member of the uh of the of the board, right? I'm a council representative. So uh I mean based on comments earlier like I would have picked you two to start running with this. So

okay. So um so El Elizabeth and Jennifer uh congratulations you on the MTAB subcommittee for safety. Say

that 10 times fast. Okay. Uh uh moving to the MTAB subcommittee for community outreach. Anyone who would like to be on that committee?

That'd be interesting. Probably I'd probably fit that one best.

Okay, awesome. So, it looks like we have three participants. And I know Linda is absent, but

we want to make sure that I guess if there is a situation, we're not in there yet, where there's a subcommittee of four people.

Just keeping that in mind. We can adjust.

We can welcome her to safety if she's interested.

Uh, okay.

Sorry to interrupt. I didn't heard see the third person for that. I saw you. and Gay

Gay and Wendy.

Wendy, thank you.

And then the MTAB subcommittee on infrastructure. Any volunteers? I would like to be on that one.

Okay, so Patrick Socket and myself and a question about that. That's great. That'll be a lot of our focus in July, right? Because it's

it's a working group project

for for 2055.

So the the yeah the peak plan 2055 um work session will focus on the overall plan. Um, I guess what I understood for this subcommittee is working on prioritizing and bringing forward recommendations as part of the annual capital improvement plan development is a main focus.

So I think we can use the the work session kind of to inform and almost like to kickstart that committee, right? and then with an objective to start

putting together a list of investment priorities and recommendations towards the end of the year, you know, to fold it into the budget process that really kicks off inheritance in in January time frame. So that timing wise seems to work out. Okay, great.

Linda,

yes, absolutely. So are there any parameter, excuse me, any parameters on uh public involvement, you know, information like as far as meeting, can we just meet whenever?

We can meet whenever. So since these are smaller committees uh and and that's the majority of the boards, you can, you know, you don't have to um announce the meetings or or notice them. So yeah, you can just call each other up and say, "Hey, like how about coffee tomorrow morning?" and just get to work.

Okay. No documentation required for the meetings or anything. I mean just for our own benefit.

Well, yeah.

Oh, no. Nothing formally public facing.

Okay.

Any other business topics for discussion?

A question. If a group wants to meet in this building somewhere, can we get in touch with you to see

we can coordinate

facilitating room reservation?

Okay. I guess I'll probably eventually guidance on what's within our scope, Jen and I, to declare needs to be done about safety. I would radically I would just get rid of those buses and get new heavyweight ones in. Right. There's going to be real constraints on how to solve safety. So,

give us a credit card. We can't go buy new,

right?

So, like there there's there's there might be things that can be done. Like I I don't know what the fleet looks like across the board, right? I don't know like if there's alternate buses that are currently sitting in reserve that's you know might not have some of the problems that you're describing. So I would

definitely urge you to to you know make up the list and and you know clearly you're you're very familiar with the space right and and so it shouldn't take too long to specific to the bus come up with a number of asks or or recommendations then that I think you know Shannon or Katie can can take to um our friends at at go carry and say hey like what what if anything can be done about this right and kind of start working down that that list there's also obviously the the list of 47 or 17, you know, priority items. There are some safety concerns in in there, right? That's, you know, might be secondary, right? Um, but again, like you guys can can make your your own work and then your own commitments as to what you want to commit to. Uh but what I I what I think I'm picking up is that there's kind of a desire to stop talking to process and actually start start putting some some rubber to the road so to speak. And um I think we with the establishment of of the subcommittees like you guys now have a way of of you know meeting more frequently and actually start producing some of these things that we can take back to staff to you know uh council or you know wherever the appropriate places for for those things those recommendations to go. And and I'd just like to suggest that um on the agenda, your regular agenda, we could add a section for subcommittee reporting where you know the different subcommittees. If if they have something, it wouldn't be required, but if you have something to bring to the larger group, we could provide some time in the agenda for that to take place.

I like that idea. All right. Is there a motion to adjurnn?

So moved.

Is there a second?

All in favor?

I.

All opposed.

Motion unanimously passes. Meeting

adjourned.

All righty. 6:45.