Multimodal Transportation Advisory Board

Yeah.

work session today and appreciate everybody's time being here. So, thank you everyone today. Um, at this point, we'll go ahead and agenda item for public comment is available. It doesn't like we had anyone. So we'll move on to um the third agenda item which is plan 205 transportation plan work session and Shannon actually for us thank you for for leading that we're excited about learning more and

okay yeah absolutely um really appreciate everybody being here today ready to work and um hopefully learn also about peak plan 2055. Um I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to Ashley with Santech who uh is part of our consultant team um and leading the transportation plan element of our comprehensive plan and she'll walk us through the um order of business today.

All right, sounds good. Thank you. Yeah, we want to inform you guys a little bit. I think you have maybe followed and hopefully come to some of our public forums that we've had for the comp plan. Um I know seeing you there. Um and then also ask questions of you all. So we have a few interactive exercises and then at the end we'll have an open discussion kind of over some of the plans here um to figure out we have a download session with town staff to tell us you know any issues challenges that you've identified um that need to go into the plan. uh you all will know other aspects of it as well through lived experience um that hopefully can then um help inform the plan as well. And so what you'll see here in the agenda is those are highlighted in orange is where we're going to stop and have a little discussion with you all.

Um and so I'll go over what the sort of the plan is where we're at in it. Um and then as part of the comp plan we developed several goals and they are around the different concepts or different elements and transportation is one of them. And so we have the one um transportation goal for the overall comp plan and the objectives that is what is printed out in front of you. And so if you have any comments um anything that we're missing, anything that you think should be added, whatever it might be, please um jot it down and I'll collect those afterwards. But we also will have a discussion about it if you want to as well. Um and then we'll get into the after this we have uh we're doing running analysis to sort of roll up into those objectives. So how are we meeting those objectives? How are we measuring them? We have a whole set of metrics that we've developed um that we'll share with you to sort of understand the science behind how we're getting to the recommendations uh for these plan updates. Um and I'm I'll just go ahead and skip ahead so you can um dive in. Uh so with the comprehensive plan um you all adopted this future land use plan and um transportation plan and so the comprehensive plan includes this and transportation is going to be a huge part of it. Uh but there's also other elements like uh parks, utilities, things like that as well that are involved in a comp plan. So, we're updating some pieces, adding new um pieces as well, and it's projecting out instead of um 2045 as advanced Apex did, we're looking out even further to 2055. And so, again, these are all those elements that are included in a comprehensive plan. Um and the transportation plan, it's uh basically rolled up into your comp plan. So, with that advanced apex, you had a dedicated transportation plan. We don't want to lose that. So a huge part of the comprehensive plan is going to be the transportation side of it. And just highlighting that something that we did a little differently for this is uh typically we have land use. You guys all

know what a land use map is. Uh but then we are also doing place types. So that's a more um general character areas um as opposed to parcel by parcel um uh land use. And those are really going to inform the transportation plan. So I'll get into that in a minute, but um everything that we do as we talk about transportation is going to be filtered through the place types that are being developed through the comprehensive plan. So it's all about sort of land use character integration. So this is the planning process and you'll see we're wrapping up phase two and getting into phase three. And so in order to come up with those recommendations um and present the preliminary findings at the public forum which will be in the fall uh we have to come up with those place types use plan um everything like that and then run those analyses I was talking about and how they roll up into and respond to the objectives that you have in front of you. So this is the planning area. Hopefully you've seen this um map by now. um and incorporates, you know, not just the town, but some other elements as well to make sure that we're really getting um capturing mainly some of the areas to the south of US1 and to the west as well. And so in that uh advanced [clears throat] voteex plan for 2045, these were the key elements of your transportation plan. So you have the thorough fairing collector street map, the bike ped map, the transit map and then typical street sections. And these all sort of filter down into project priorities. So we helped inform the projects that came out of these plans and then help prioritize them. And we are doing something slightly differently this time. So instead of having that thoroughare collector street plan, we're actually going to do a street typology map. And this one example one here is for Raleigh. So it's going to be more context specific. So again those place types that you'll see it's going to respond really to the land use the inte

integrating with that and sort of the character um of the areas that surround it. So instead of having your third affair plan currently has think it has 12 different types of you okay fewer than that over there um but they don't really vary as they go in and out of maybe more dense areas suburban to rural and so really having it be more context sensitive um and specific like that. And so when beginning with this, we looked at existing conditions um and also community input. So we've been in and out of Apex quite a few times to discuss with you all um and the community as to what how we think that uh Apex should grow and what it should look like by 2055. And this [clears throat] is that methodology that I talked about of how we set up the goal and the objectives. We're developing these metrics to measure success, doing the analysis, updating those plans and sections, and then those will feed down into actionable recommendations. And I didn't I said this I think to Jennifer at the beginning, but if anything is not computing, just stop me, let me know. We have a small group here, so just drop me at any point. And so with this goal and objectives, I wanted to take a second and just have you all look at either on screen on the computer or in the printout. And um we kind of want to leave here with being formally adopted or approved by you all. Um so if you can take some time to look at that today um or if you had anything in mind that you know you we have to get integrated and incorporated in here. Um if you have any ideas on that just let me know and we'll make sure that those are included in these but I don't

I think we should

yeah go through now do that over the session now. Okay. Uh and so the overall goal is to create a connected safe and efficient multimodal transportation network. So that's what we're striving

for um all throughout the next 30 years but also making sure that we're getting to that by 2055. Uh and so for that first objective uh we are going to expand access and that's the key word there is access to safe convenient and reliable transportation choices for people of all ages and abilities including walking, biking, transit and driving. So for us that is making sure that regardless of how you get around town that your ability to access that is safe and convenient. comments or questions on that one.

Does that include ebiking

microobility as a part of that? We don't have it specifically called out. We can discuss specifically adding that.

Do you have ordinances around allowing I don't know if I've ever seen

some some there are some ordinance but but not a lot. I know there's talk at the state level of defining the three categories. We don't have there have been discussions but not not much is formalized.

Okay.

At this point

okay

in Apex.

Does this assume that there will or will not be passenger rail in the next 30 years?

Yes. So our transit plan uh map assumes future passenger rail the 2055 plan and the place type recommendations also assume that we have premium transit service. Um that could be passenger rail, it could be something else and we're still working on that. Um what those recommendations will be the BRT or increased frequency something along those lines.

So, um

is is the question whether the walking, biking, transit and driving is all-encompassing enough or I guess I wanted to think bigger picture. What are you assuming about demographics? Certainly with the current bus, it is mostly extremely lowincome people and folks who are aged out of driving or have disabilities. So, if we think of an expansion of bus and rail and all of that, at what point are you assuming over the next 30 years that ridership can expand? I think our community is just going to get more affluent and the lowest income people are going to keep getting displaced, which makes it hard to think about uh transit and a rail system that's going to attract writers. I think that's the big question to me. What your future predictions are for demographic change and then how that leads into propensity to ride. Well, I think um you'll see and and maybe we should go through the goals and then walk back through discussion, but I think that you'll see throughout the language that there's the intent, and this is consistent with the town strategic plan, is to be welcoming to all people um you know, of different demographics. Um, so our our goals and objectives would want to serve all people and but do we have demographic projections on what percentage of the population is going to have income below 40,000 or comparable based on inflation 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years? Have you looked at that demographic? Are you just saying it's irrelevant? we're going to be welcoming of anyone whether anyone chooses to ride or not. I'm just really concerned about low ridership then being projected out

into the future given how incredibly expensive it is and that there's a lot of backlash from people who don't like how much we pay for an empty bus. Right? feel like that's got to be grappled with the demographics of people who are likely to ride, how much it costs, and how cost effective it is to continue this plan, right? To do what we're doing now for another 30 years. So we have looked at demographic trends um and the whole there is an existing conditions report available on the peak plan website that dives into demographics um to the extent that we can um when you're projecting out it's more what does the past tell us you know that we can assume might continue for the future. you can't really project out income and race and ability, that sort of thing. Um, so it doesn't completely answer your question. And I have not heard from public input and maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying exactly, but that we would scale back transportation options because of the demographics of the community. Is that what you're suggesting? I think that the type of fixed route bus that we have now, it has really low ridership. And I think that as people who are low income continue to be displaced, this is a 100% true on my street. All of the renters are gone. It used to be someone who had a $500 a month shared house and now it's the only rental renting option is 4,000 a month. Right? There's a complete displacement. and I'm in the greater downtown area that who's going to be riding bus. I don't think as the town becomes more and

more affluent that we're going to capture that group on a bus like even if it's a rapid transit bus or it's a fulllength bus. I mean just hard to imagine something other than an equally empty bus 10 years from now. Do people sort of understand what I'm saying? It's understand what you're saying. If I may though, I think maybe we're getting a little bogged down. If perhaps we could go through what the the presentation and then perhaps come back to those questions, would that be okay with you? I'm afraid we'll get down this rabbit hole. Democrats never understand what what the group is for. I was gonna say I I agree because the only thing that I would say is all of what you're saying is true, but the counter to that is trends of people becoming uh especially lower demographics not being car owners and a trend toward um you know car pooling, driverless cars, all of those factors are kind of creating a separate trend of socioeconomics. the side. A lot of trends show there will be fewer cars on the road and so if there's fewer cars on the road then they've got to be alternatives to transportation regardless of economics. But I should go through the rest of the slides.

Okay. I'll add one thing to that is that everything that we come up with after these is going to be filtered through those place types. And so we have areas that we are proposing as mixed use, higher density. And so we went through the whole scenario planning to figure out how Apex wanted to see itself grow in the future kind of status quo with single family homes. Um that was sort of one option and then the other option was to densify in certain areas along certain major corridors like NC55 and then that would allow uh more open space

more rural living um things like that serve as the counter. And so when you have more density along some of these corridors it will be more transit supportive and there will be a higher density uh or concentration of people which then makes transit more viable in those areas. So we're trying to be transit supportive in what we're creating for the future so that choice riders more of them will be riding transit along with transit dependent writers. So hope the hope is you will see an increase in transit ridership in the future. That helps though. And so yeah this first one mainly about access. Second one to improve connectivity between residential areas, employment centers, schools, parks and commercial areas to reduce congestion and travel delays. This is more getting into uh vehicles. So the connectivity so do we have enough roadway or like we have enough connections um enough intersections so people can safely um get across or um access places that they need to get to. um enough uh sort of yeah those connectors out onto the arterial roadways. Um mainly is congestion an issue and how do we help alleviate it? And then for the third one uh incorporation lighting only anticipated new or future public transit technologies. Uh so this is getting into the uh the safety side of things. So we have the apex vision zero plan uh learning from the pine injury network and see that have been done there to help improve uh and diminish um crashes uh either with vulnerable roadway users and or in how uh might we improve that through things like lighting more crossings and traffic.

Can you fourth one integrate sidewalks, bike facilities, street trees, greenways, bus stops, mobility hubs, and other supportive elements as components of a functional multimodal transportation system. So really that's getting into the functional multimodal transportation system. So how do we introduce facilities and infrastructure for all of these modes and integrate them together in a way that makes sense that it's connecting to one another? You don't have a greenway happening over here and only a select few communities can access it and then it's not getting you anywhere or something like that. Make sure that's all working together.

Yes. What's a street tree? What's a street tree? Uh any sort of the regimented trees that you see along a roadway. So every 20, 35 feet, however you want to do it, where you have tree planted sort of between the sidewalk and the roadway. You see them a lot in more urban areas and they're they're very difficult. So it's not just um why don't we do this? it's a smart idea to plant more trees. You know, it there's utility conflicts, there's conflicts with um clear zone requirements, uncertain roadways, so you have to be very intentional um if having more street trees is an objective divided median impair visibility when driving. So, like we're adding more trees. Okay.

Yeah. if it's not maintained. Yeah. So, the some of the vertical elements like that like in medians, it helps to slow people down when they're driving because a lot of these they are major thorough affairs that people can just tear down um in their vehicle. And so, if you think that you might hit a tree, then you might be more likely to slow down.

But then you're right, if it's not properly maintained, then it becomes you're trying to pull out or something around you, then scary.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm sure you have all seen it with uh utilities when your tree gets big and beautiful and then Duke Energy comes down and shaves half it off because it's in the way your power lines. Uh so yeah creating a a a system of that to make sure that some of these things are not happening and that it's uh we have plans for maintenance as well. Uh and so with five design transportation networks that support people who have mobility challenges or who don't have access to personal transportation. So zero vehicle households um persons with disability seniors. Uh and I think to Elizabeth's point it's sometimes difficult to project out 20 30 years and know where those demographics will be in the community. Um, so understanding maybe some of the the neighborhoods that have naturally occurring affordable housing or uh ranch style homes so that people with physical um impairments they aren't going to go into two threetory town homes or something like that. Uh so understanding we can somewhat understand try to understand where some of these demographics may live in the future based off of something like that. While while we're on that subject, I just did want to mention um that you today were only sharing the transportation goal and objectives with you all, but there's several others that are part of the overall comprehensive plan and one is specifically getting at varied and attainable housing choices. Um so that's where you're kind of getting that you know intentional u preservation of naturally affordable

naturally occurring affordable housing and creation of more um you know attainable housing choices and you know I'd like to comment on that on the um Wake County community need assessment that goes through every three years formal process as all the hospitals are involved with an office age and then community impacts a long threeyear cycle every again every three years and affordable housing and homelessness access to health care and behavioral health have been top three and transportation and employment are always in there. So and the mayor all the municipalities county are all involved on the steering committee. There's and it layers right on top of transportation. So that's all discussed when um the county's talking about that. So that's it all it all interacts together with you know access to healthcare and how people want to get where they need to go and you know it used to be just um uh homelessness and now it's affordable housing and homelessness. So anyway, I just wanted to mention that it was all integrated in a way county plan which is exciting to see. So I appreciate the business from the healthare. Uh so for six priorized public investment in bicycle, pedestrian and transit projects areas identified as mixed use place types activity centers to provide safe links to schools and safe access to transit and parks. So this gets a little bit into how are we prioritizing some of these projects and

u making sure that they are prioritized in the more dense and active areas that are being identified through the plan. For seven, prioritize lowerc cost, high impact projects such as investments in traffic signal technologies and enhancements to NCDM projects to improve the efficiency of the transportation network while leveraging limited funds. And so this really gets into optimizing the existing infrastructure that is here. Um so we can't we don't have the money to just com continue building roadways and bridges and expanding transit. So how do we make the most of what we have now? uh and so technologies or other innovations might be part of that um that are connecting with existing projects. So one of the examples of this is part of this project is the NC55 corridor study. So we are actively speaking to NC do and how do we get some priority projects identified by the town integrated into their widening project. Uh a so they pay for it and B so uh it gets done sooner rather than later. These are the seven. Did we miss anything that jumped out to anyone? Think on it some more. You have the papers in front of you. I will collect them at the end if you take any notes on them. So understanding that now our objective is to take all this information sort of the framework that has been uh developed through um speaking with us and the town and the public to come up with those objectives. Now how do we do that? And so part of what we have to do is update these plans. The street typology plan which was fair collector street plan, the ped bike plan and the transit plan. So how do we do that? We need to understand where some of the transit dependent communities are and where they might be in 2055. We need to understand what is

proposed now and what needs to be prioritized based off of the land use plan and the place types and where we expect density and what areas want to be left alone. Um things like that. So we need to understand sort of what the existing uh what is out there now and how that rolls up into these objectives. So over to the left you'll see the objectives that we just went through the seven of them and then these are how we are analyzing them. So we're looking at sideway uh sidewalk coverage bike network coverage um the population within a 10-minute walk to transit and then how we um progress on greenway implementation as we reach towards 2055. And then to help us measure um the connectivity, we're going to look at roadway density, um intersection density, and then populations within a 10-minute walk to community facilities like um schools and parks and employment centers. And then to measure um safety and visibility, we're going to look at the transportation related deaths and severe injuries. So that high injury network that's been developed, vision plan, um the crash density, and then also tracking um new and retrofitted retrofitted crosswalks to make sure they're meeting um the town's new lighting standards. Um this kind of gets into what you were saying, Jennifer, about the pedestrian scale lighting versus vehicle scale lighting. Um making sure that especially at crosswalks, um when you're interacting your uh with traffic that you can see what's happening. And then with measuring that uh multimodal transportation system as a full comprehensive network looking at the multimodal networks the biking ped uh greenway network the transit network mobility hub network so the one or two that have been proposed already and how we might develop a network further than those two and then the street tree um density as well. So part of a safe and

functional multimodal transportation system is shade. It gets hot here. So looking at if we're expecting people to walk, making sure that they are shaded as they go. Um looking for measuring how wealth challenges or don't have access to personal vehicles. Looking at the specialized transportation access for older adults um and individuals with disabilities. and making sure that we're prioritizing the mixed use place type and activity centers. We're going to be looking at the gaps um in connections for PE by to the activity centers to the mixed use areas and then also to um schools and parks. And then for that enhancements to NCTO projects or optimizing the existing um infrastructure that we have and integrating into future projects um coming up with strategies and working with NCTO and then providing a toolkit for those lowcost high impact projects along state corridors using best uh practices to sort of develop uh that toolkit for the town to use to say okay we have a freeway what options are available to us? Um and then or uh rural roads, same thing. And so with all of that information, uh we did our analysis and we looked at all those coverages and demographics and things like that and we filtered everything again through these place types. So this might be your first time seeing this sort of blogging map with the blue, yellow, and orange. So that's really getting into you have rural living with blue, suburban with yellow and uh mixed use is the orange. So when we're looking at uh higher density in the orange areas, creating activity centers in these community activity centers within them. So they are destinations for people to get to. Um understanding how they are getting there. They either already live and or work there because they're living in uh

the higher density housing along these corridors or in these centers um or they are walking or biking there with our new robust infrastructure for um those networks or they are taking transit um [clears throat] and then looking at suburban as uh more of the development maybe that we've been seeing in the last 10 years in Apex and then rural living letting those remain as they are and trying to preserve where we can and then it's also filtered through the volume over capacity. So that just means congestion basically how we think um roadways are going to perform into the future when we um the map that you see now is the current forecast into 2050 from Campo. Um but we are having them do a new model run in the next few weeks um using these place types so that they would understand kind of difficult to explain but [clears throat] understanding some internal capture. So where we are promoting more transit so those choice riders who are getting more people on transit um they we're getting them out of their cars and off of the roadways. or if you are now able to live, work and play within a walking distance of each other. Now, we were capturing capturing that um internally and hoping then that we will get some of that congestion off of the roadways. So, we want to see how these new place types are going to impact the forecast into 55 and use that as our part of our analysis. It's really an overlay with the place types. So some of the findings that we have uh come across so far. So looking at sort of access and the multimodal functional transportation system um there are some legacy neighborhoods near downtown. Um and then also major along the proposed major mixeduse corridors that are lacking ped connections currently. Um so

we're actually a bit surprised to see how few um sidewalks there are in some of the downtown neighborhoods. um they're fairly walkable, fairly slow streets, and it's a gritted network. So, the idea maybe is that it's still walkable, but let's try to get more safer facilities out there for folks. Or we ran into scenarios [clears throat] where there were pockets within like the transit coverage area that came up lit up that they it would be like a 30 minute walk to access transit. And we're like, but they're right they're right there. How are you not able to access transit? it's because they have to go all the way around to then be able to access a bus stop. Um so either it's that the there's not bus stops where they need to be or there's not as many bus stops as uh there are there need to be or um the street density is not there. So you just need to have one connection to then get people from that neighborhood to the existing uh network. So, we ran into scenarios like that that we want to work through um and figure out where to prioritize the shifting of bus stops or additional roadways to help those pockets that we noticed. Um and then also that there were areas that had higher transit dependent populations that may need expanded transit services. So understanding where they are, where they are going to be again with that um either naturally occurring um affordable housing or the targeted affordable housing that we'll be having as part of the project um and making sure that transit is available there for them. Um and looking at they the town has done a great job in planning for the bike infrastructure. We don't really have any comments on that as far as where they need to be. They're planning where they need to be. uh but helping uh prioritize where they go based off of where we expect population and needs to be in the future. And then um one of the last things is that there's a

you can see it this yeah there's this area here south of US1 that is being it's uh pretty industrial now. Um there are repairarian buffers and streams that make it a little difficult to um develop but uh that has been identified as a large area of opportunity for mixed use. There's larger swaps of land, larger areas that are owned by a single land owner, things like that that have um really highlighted as a place to densify. Um and so with that though there's critical it's going to be a critical place to look at for pen bike and transit and multimal infrastructure because it's not currently there with the current land use that it is. So we'll have a um you know deep dive into that area specifically

east of 55. Is that south of one?

Yeah. D

I was asking like oh it was noted south of US one. I was asking if that's between 55 and US1 is kind of a pocket that we're looking at.

And Shannon said the Jesse drive.

Yeah. So is this is

that's Vidia to the west. Yeah.

Yeah. So Vidia pretty much plans for that already in place for it to be sort of this night area.

Yes. So when we get up and look at the maps we can point it out too. But um there so there's Nights play and then just east of Nights play at 10:10 there's Jessie Drive

and the plan is that Jesse Drive will extend from 1010 to 55 through Vidia. So it's in the future a major corridor. Um and

take some stress off.

I couldn't hear you. Sorry.

Is Motiva

Motiva is along 1010, but it would not be along the Jesse Drive corridor.

Yeah.

Any questions or comments?

So, what is that land that you proposed as high density? What is it currently? Is it farmland or

I would have to look back at it. So uh a lot of it is residential.

Okay. It is already

but but not developed um with intensity and there's vacant parcels as well um along ex there there is existing industrial which we've accounted for and don't anticipate redeveloping um at production drive and Jesse drive. I mean it's new it's new industrial. Yeah,

the commerce center. Is that the name of it? I can't. It used to have a different name and so I can't remember the new name.

I've seen it back there.

Yeah, it backs right up to night's play. So, you ever go golfing, you can see it.

But then also along 55 where Jesse Drive would come in, there's potential for redevelopment as well. So kind of connecting that Jesse Drive corridor to the 55 which is really the spine of the mixeduse activity center that's proposed.

Yeah. This is 55 here. This is this is center.

Yes. Yeah. So in the in the next one talking about connectivity um we as of now without the

new model run um there doesn't seem to be a correlation between intersection and roadway densities and congestion some of the areas that have the highest and best densities so the most connectivity they're still experiencing the most congestion. So it's something that we need to dive into a little bit more to understand why there doesn't we did this analysis thinking oh there's just it's congested because there's not enough options there. In reality there seems to be many options but it's still congested. So we need to understand why. Uh and then there are [clears throat] several areas that have sort of mid levels of of connectivity um to these community facilities like parks, schools, employment centers um that do need to be improved especially because they're now going to be proposed as activity centers. So there's going to be more density there, more amenities, more businesses, more things for people to go to. And so connecting folks to those activity centers is going to be a big deal so that they can access all of those amenities. Describe And then for the excuse [clears throat] me for the safety um aspect of it um just using the vision zero action plan um the analysis that we conducted ourselves is pretty consistent with what the vision plan had already laid out um and looking at uh crash hotspots uh near and around those proposed activity centers and um the idea that with these conflicts that are being introduced so additional modes or more concentration of pedestrians and cyclists walking around. Um that has the potential for it to be even less safe. So we have to make sure that we're designing roadways in a way that's conducive for all of these modes to be interacting with one another um with slowing traffic down counter safe or um safety counter measures. um make sure that yeah as we introduce more activity and more people in areas that are already seeing high levels of crashes that we have to do something

about that before it gets worse with these play work centers that you're talking about think about some of the existing shopping centers just in our area like we were creating center 55 some of the way those are designed and traffic flow in general is just not conducive to people, I guess, not making risky decisions. Sometimes when the two like chunks of the shopping center expect you to be able to cut straight across four lanes of active traffic coming in and out, there's so many moving parts. I think sometimes if the developer of that facility knew more about vision zero, putting shrubs back, making turn lanes easier to navigate, putting in traffic signals because some of these where it's like a four-way stop or even just two sides stopping and you've got moving traffic coming in from both sides of 55 and then whenever neighborhood backs up to it, you're going to have people that that take chances that collisions and crashes. Um and then if you add pedestrian bike element too moving parts to keep track of making terms coming across areas. So I just don't know when the days town gets those proposals for these mixed use facilities if the vision zero aspects would be worked into those to make sure visibility is good as it can be. Yeah. No, those are really great comments and yes, that would be part of the recommendations is that those have to be filtered. Those uh proposals have to be filtered through uh various things like the vision zero. So understanding if you're along a high injury network, you have to do x y and z. Um or if you are within an activity center, then there are design codes that you have to meet. um like you have to from your internal streets so that you create a roadway network within that people feel safe walking and biking through. Um and with

a lot of the developments that you are talking about, they are they're created for cars. Um and even with some of the newer ones, it's maybe more of a park once and then walk around, but even getting for people who are not driving and parking that once uh how they're getting there and how they're getting there safely. I've just noticed that even driving GPS to say they're going to go down this road and make a left. It's like making that left. There's four lanes of traffic or cutting straight across. Even harder than making left in figuring out who to even give that feedback to. Whoever designed this clearly didn't navigate it in the heart of Christmas rush hour traffic with 8,000 people trying to all go different directions. It's fine if it's an empty day, but if it's like getting 55 into that chaos, it's just like nope, I'll skip it. And if you want people to use facilities you're building for people to get through safely.

Yeah. So, um, two comments on that. Right now, our well, maybe I should wait till Ashley explains it a little further, but our street typology does not distinguish um between areas that are intended to be more walkable, transit oriented, suburban, um or rural. So, we have basically kind of two different types of street typologies. And when I say that, I'm talking about how are we designing the road? What are we giving priority to?

Um, we do have a distinction for rural, but we don't have anything currently for more urban street types. So, that's one of the things we're hoping to accomplish with peak plan. what we won't be able to accomplish but I think we might have recommendations around is actual changes to our

our uniform development ordinance which is specifying certain requirements of development. Um, I think that would have to be a followup that we have recommendations through PEP plan but not specific changes.

Those recommendations I did not [laughter] uh so looking at the the objective and the findings for the um those mobility challenges. um looking again this is I'm sort of now reading what I had said earlier but looking at the um concentrated populations within um some of these neighborhoods and understanding the demographics and supporting those demographics in the future of where they're going to be and then uh without prioritizing the mixed you or the um investment in mixed use areas and activity centers um kind of as we get out further away from downtown, the existing sidewalk and transit coverage, it lessens as we get further and further. And so some of those um mixed use activity centers and I'll go back to this sort of if you're looking at this is downtown here. And so we have other activity centers identified along U 64 or one or the Jesse Drive area or um 55. And so understanding how are we getting people from the surrounding neighborhoods safely to these either walking or biking um and then safely around once they get inside of them or is it a matter of does transit um I believe uh go apex route one currently serves sort of would serve this activity center but maybe not this one. So, is it strategically talking about expanding or rerouting um transit in some to

better service these areas in the future. And then uh for seven um looking at improving the efficiency of the transportation network. So again looking at how we optimize the existing infrastructure that we have now. um looking at the options that we'll um discuss in that toolkit and u seeing which ones are owned by NCTO and what um programs the town has and what projects NCT has coming up and how do we uh overlap those integrate them together again like the NC55 corridor that we're currently doing. So, I know that was a lot. Any overall comments or questions? Um, before we go go to the next part, I have one random detailed question. Um, and feel free to push it off to another discussion. When you're looking at connectivity, are the greenways considered part of that? We had a discussion on that. Um and we are currently not considering them as uh that we are not in we did not consider them in the sidewalk or um bike infrastructure connections. So they're kind of their own separate thing that we want to make sure continue to progress. Um but we are not expecting them to act as a way to get people from um point A to point B

like recreation rather than transportation.

Yes.

Yeah. But I think the direction that we're headed we've had discussions around rethinking that and considering at least some greenways as part of the transportation network. It seems like an obvious opportunity to say, "Hey, instead of making here, we have to period

people." But

okay, I guess that's the right question. Yeah, I will say it's not

it's not not included in the analysis that we looked at from the analytical standpoint, but when we looked at the network and said if we looked at, you know, we want to connect these neighborhoods to a major corridor by walking, so safe routes through sidewalks. Then once they get to a major corridor like US1, then it becomes a side path or multi-use path or some way to get people to then bike into these centers because it's just too far a walk. Um, and so we looked at and we said, okay, well, US1 would be the obvious choice, but there's a greenway that parallels it. So is the greenway that should be the priority or should it be the side path along US1? So uh we are using it um sort of after we do the analysis analysis and say we need a bike connection here now which one is the best place for it to be is it a greenway or is it a side path along

and does who maintains the side path to make things the greenway if you make that choice. Yeah, it does. Parks and recreation maintains greenways. Um, and our public works department or NCO, well for pedestrian facilities, our public works department maintain.

Yes. No, I just I was recalling I think last year we had a presentation somebody discussing a greenway that uh is going to be you know see people close to the train. I mean there is a connection there.

Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, we want to make sure that we're utilizing the infrastructure that is there already and completing it when it makes sense to get

it to one of those activity centers or um one of the you know UDO recommendations might be to make sure that developers of these activity centers or mixed use areas that they are then connecting to a greenway. Um or vice versa. If there's a greenway coming in first and we know that an activity center will happen later, then ST out to connect to that new development feature. Now, we're going to ask you guys to do a little work talked enough. So, one of the things that Shannon had just mentioned was uh looking at the street sections and how do we prioritize the different elements within it based off of the place types. So, we have those urban areas. Oops. We have the more urban areas uh or mixeduse areas in orange, the suburban which might be residential but also might be industrial or office parks in yellow, and then the rural living in blue. And then some of the green that you see weaving in and out are areas that are undevelopable. Um, and so using these place types and understanding a street section like this probably doesn't make sense in a rural living area. Um, but understanding the different elements within a street section to help us prioritize what if we have limited space or rooted funds, what should be the number one priority in this type of area. So in the mixeduse area uh is transit all the way no matter what make sure transit is of high quality and given the most allocation and space and funding or is it the pedestrian zone whatever it might be. Um and so we have this exercise to look at the different elements of a typical street. So that building integration. So looking at how does the building front

onto the sidewalk and onto the street? Um is it in maybe in a mixeduse area? You have this orico, but you have outdoor dining um or kiosks or a parklet or something like that out um fronting of the the sidewalk on the street or even in a rural area. Um making sure maybe we want um consistent setbacks from the road or we want uh consistently a split rail fence along any major corridor or something like that. There's a character to it. You want a a type of uh um tree buffer within um rural living areas. And then the pedestrian facility, so sidewalk, multi-use path, um things like that. And then the buffer or amenity zone. So, if you're looking at maybe a more urban street, that's where you find the street tree um in a in a grate or in a a planting verge or uh so really how are we buffering or separating the pedestrian from the roadway and then looking at bike facilities. So, is it a dedicated path or um dedicated bike lane? Uh is it separated? Is it a shar? So, it's shared with um a travel way or transit lane. Um and then the travel way itself. So, maybe in a suburban area. And when we're talking about suburban, we're not talking about like in the neighborhood itself. So, those will kind of happen with the developer. Um but then once they get out onto like a major arterial um how do we want the um the street to look and feel and interact and what are the priorities there? Um, so maybe in a suburban area we're just talking about let's just get cars through here and that's where travel way is way more important. Actually to go there. So for those higher density mixed use

areas, it might actually make more sense for you all to zoom back to your place types map on your screen. Um, so you can know what we're referencing when we're talking about this. And so for we'll start with the more urban so the mixed use areas uh how high of a priority do you think it is um either low medium or high to really concentrate in that building or land use integration. Is there another place you guys particip So we're talking about the first one is in sort of these areas. So downtown along Jesse Drive area, Meridia and then it's like um Bever Creek Commons area and Sweetwater.

Can you explain building integration one more time? I'm just having trouble reading it because I guess

Yeah. So how integrating with the the building? So if you have um certain setbacks that you want to have or certain character or you want to make sure that whatever land use is there is responding to the street or vice versa. So I would say like building integration is usually very important

is usually very important. So you want to make sure that you have businesses that are interacting with the street. So um you want to have active ground floor.

Yes.

You don't want to have a parking lot or a parking decking on the street.

Um so making sure that there's consideration with what is happening on the other side of the

So basically the project is going on sale street,

right?

Yeah. Um, sounds good. So, is the is the

thought for this exercise for us to have discussion internally and then like vote as a collective or to each individually by a show of hand say who thinks low, who thinks mid, who thinks high priority?

We can just vote by name if you want to, but I'd rather you guys talk about it a little bit either. I mean, we'll listen to you, but we can talk together. And I I think of this particular one building integration. I agree is what's going on with Salem Street, but um Sweetwater, right? Mixed use

for an example. Um, from places I've worked in the past, I would say building integration is really high priority because if you have a place where you have a bunch of lobbies that hit the sidewalk as opposed to retail, something has interact. That's a live street versus a dead street. So to me, that's very high building integration. I didn't know that was true. I I agree. So you think Sweetwater is highest building?

I don't know because I don't spend enough time there, but it's an excuse

and it has a lot of outdoor seating as well.

It does to get from one side to the other.

Yeah.

But but I think that like not all mixed use high density areas are going to look like Sweetwater. Some might look like Sweet Water, some might like downtown. But overall, in terms of connecting the the customer or the pedestrian to building, I agree. I think that's a high

Oh, yeah.

And just one um comment on that. We don't have to just base this on what we have now. We can base it on what we envision for the future. you know what

what we would recommend that we strive for in the future. So if sweet water is not a perfect example and we think we can do better at building integration that's okay.

I was just using lived in a town part of the reason I live in it reminded me of the town I used to live in in Georgia and they started to develop and they they put in I guess ordinance that uh because they were there were developers taking over buildings and turning them into condos and they made a rule that you had to have retail on the bottom level because they were afraid of desert because people just coming and going and it made a huge difference and it's driving

and that's what was done in downtown Apex also the downtown business um association at the time came and recommended that going forward forward. We only have retail, restaurant, more active uses on the ground floor to keep it active.

Sounds good. We would it be easier for you all to think in calms or roads? So, now that we're on building integration, think of it in suburban or rural or go down the mixed use. Where's your brain more at right now?

Rose.

Just sticking with the concept of building integration. Okay.

It works for me.

Whatever you want to go say.

So then suburban. So when we're thinking about some of the major periods, so if you live in maybe one of the suburban neighborhoods and then you exit out of your neighborhood onto a main road, do you how much consideration do you want to put into the homes and the um businesses off of those main corridors?

I mean a lower priority. Whether it's low or medium is subjective, I think.

Can you give me an example of what would what those things would look like if we're saying a low priority versus a medium priority. I'm just I'm trying to get a real visual, so I'm just trying to get in my head what we're saying. I think it is more of either space allocation. So if you have a one of these roadways and you have limited amount of space that you can dump something in, would you rather a concentration be put on how the buildings interact with it or so maybe with some of these prohibit not saying you do this but you prohibit winding projects because you want to keep a certain setback from a property. Um, so now you would have suburban context. It is harder on that. I think that's fair because like if you look at the widening of Apex Peakway or you know a thoroughare like Richardson road and permanent area I think by widening those connectors haven't seen plans for the chess 5 and 10 but if roads are being widened in certain areas then I would tend to think that building integration with the rest of the

Yeah Because then if you look down and you guys say that well on these roads travel the most important always the highest priority. So then if you only have x amount of space and then you said that building integration was low then not much push back is going to be put on widening.

I can also capture like it's prioritization when it comes to building integration isn't straightforward.

It's the hardest one. Yeah, I can also capture notes of just, you know, suburban area what what is the priority for the you know do we want setbacks? Do we want buffers? Do we want um you know houses closer to the streets? Is it you know just what's the kind of when you say in a suburban area though um you're saying outside on as you exit the example as you exit the development onto the main is that what we're talking about

not in the neighborhood itself we do a suburban entity like just like even for example that was built kind of buffered against a couple of existing neighborhoods for a long time But it also brings you right off Highway 64. And I think that the setback of that where it's got a parking area, makes it very easily accessible for people in both neighborhoods and the community and then people coming off 64 traveling carry to get to it. But that area is also fairly static that it does not have a lot of other room for growth and development because of what's around it and what's already established. So when I think about some of these other developments coming in, I don't know if the building integration is as high a priority because some of it's up to the developer like planning the neighborhoods and then seeing what other businesses get zoned around. And that would be an okay comment. I think that you know it's not something that has to be specified in a street section. leave it up to the form of the development in the

suburban areas. And maybe maybe that's where, you know, specifying the integration of buildings with the street is not as high of a priority in a suburban area.

I think I'm just having trouble latching on to maybe we move past this one.

It's harder than originally thought.

And then I think also it might be helpful to look at them and just said and so in mixed use areas you know how important I think it's easier to kind of go in this direction and say in a mixed use area what do I want to allocate face funding and time to and is it going to be building integration yes is it also pedestrian facilities I would say yes

yes and then skipping down to the bottom travel way would be In my mind, the mix the beauty it's an excuse that you get there and get out the car.

Yeah.

And you do what you want to do. Travel for me is medium facilities we have currently and while I want to be well thought out so that traffic flows people in their cars do know exist you can put all the sidewalks you want to travel is not you're going people not working. It's more congestion.

No, that's fair. I guess to your point, the question is [clears throat] existing versus future um mixed use areas where infrastructure or roadway is already in place versus starting from net new.

Yeah. And I guess when I think about 30 years down the road, some of the

existing structures may still be there upgraded if they still exist and just figuring out what that looks like. If we're talking like a water, it needs to be rebuilt. They totally doing layouts or they just

No, that's that's fair. I but I think I think Jennifer what I'm hearing you you say is you want you want the travel way to be welldesigned.

Yeah.

Um and I go designers always think about that like I think about crossroads as an example car that seems to be one of the most horribly designed shopping centers for navigating well by car or by pedestrian but I don't think it's very walking friendly.

No it seems designed for a car. If you're on one side, you can't easily get into that shopping center,

right? Without playing across those crosswalks and the visibility is ridiculous. I mean, even walking or driving,

but in terms of allocating limited space.

Yeah.

Like it would be

not that it's not important, but space.

Okay.

Yeah. So, if we're trying to get are we doing more lanes? Are we doing wide lanes? You know, in terms of space in a mixeduse area where you have pedestrians, you want the roadway to be welld designigned, well planned, connected, thought out, but probably more narrow, right?

Um because that would slow down traffic.

That's one of the traffic things you

Yeah. So the pedestrian definitely has a higher importance for me.

So actually is a takeaway that Is the guidance that you're looking for that this is a space alloc space allocation when it comes to travel way?

Yes.

So more of the hierarchy. Yes. of space and though this where it gets confusing

and I would just maybe just stop at space because then when you start talking about the funding to Jennifer's point like it has to be well designed and thought out which effort

and engineers that care.

Yeah.

Yeah. But I think if you want us to get through this you're need something we can work with. If you bring in more variables, we can't control.

So let's look at space only. So if we had a sort of hierarchy of what we want to consider

spacey

for space have unlimited,

right?

Unlimited space.

What's that?

Unlimited space. and

worst game ever.

Once we get through this problem, maybe the rest,

but also real quick, I was going to say that's a good point. Like Crawford developed 35 years ago. So we're kind of projecting 30 years from now. So it's kind of hard to wrap our brains around it because back then there was no live, work, play. So at the time it was the largest development of its kind between Atlanta and DC and it served its purpose. But now as demographics have changed, designs have changed, places have changed, it it's now outdated.

Yeah.

And I think it's not like the water. They could end up doing 30 some kind of pedestrian footage thing that completely goes over your roof. So if you want to get from one side to the other, you want to use the traditional cross.

Yeah, I would argue I don't have that in argument. I don't know anything about how Sweet Water was designed, but I would say their travel there's a lot more

and getting across that road. [clears throat]

Okay.

Upperity zone

urban areas. Say more about that. What what is what's in I see it's around the bus.

Yeah. So it's got the facility where you start to have to travel away when there's cars. And so uh in urban areas when there's not very much space are smaller and you either only have a tree or a lightmost or something like that and you're pretty close walking along the corridor along the travel way. and others they have they're very wide so that you get sort of consistent elements along the corridor so you have those consistent street trees writing um things like that

and for this discussion we're talking specifically about between the roadway and the pedestrian facility is in mixed use not general purpose mixed And could those be combined? One thing that maybe doesn't take up as much space and the buffer activity.

I think you're trying to think of it as a clear pedestrians and then the bus shelter would be this whole little sidewalk. travel.

To me, it would be a medium. It's not It's not as high priority pedestrian,

but something.

You need to have something, right? You're a lot of people walking around.

Yeah. Sounds good. And then for bike facilities, specifically thinking about dedicated

bike facilities. So having a lane that is dedicated to biking within your mixed use areas

and then also places to board bikes presumably. Yes, that would most likely be more buffers as opposed to changing it to the old fashioned way.

We we actually have requirements for bike parking specifically. So, I don't think we have to specify that it's in the right.

Okay. in terms of space out

we want people to use.

I'm a vote for bikes as the highest priority all the way across in all three scenarios. I think that's our area of likely growth over 30 years. And by that I mean broadly whatever the next version of the ebike is scooters bikes count as bikes are they because they're use

you probably shouldn't be on the sidewalk.

Sorry not on the sidewalk.

We're talking about dedicated biking facilities. So, you know, the group kind of sees ebikes as an area of growth than having those dedicated facilities.

I still don't think it's as important. That's true. Well, I'm not talking about

Yes. So, Jennifer, are you suggesting

that it might be high for um roads that provide connection to mixeduse areas like that access to mixed use areas, but then internal maybe pedestrian is the highest priority,

right? Because if you're not in a high density mixeduse area, you're going to want some connectivity. So, from that aspect, I agree being a suburban or rural would be more a safer place.

Yeah, that would be these two. And I will also say for for mixed use or more urban areas oftent times the travel way is going to be shared with bikes. Uh so that's where you were going to have you know 15 to 25 mile per hour zones and the idea is people will feel safe operating within

because it's a narrow travel speed

but as someone as a mom of two young kids I wouldn't do that also too I think about like the bike lanes they added even just like street tours they welcome where They bike lanes and then lanes of travel feel a little bit narrower redirected to the cars. I I don't see a lot of people biking through that route when I've been traversing it, but I hope that they would feel safe with the control to get to in some of the shopping centers and center like if we said so it's funny you can't prioritize this way but if we had a higher prior travel I'd want a higher priority, We're going to have a wider roadway. I want to have a dedicated pipeline. But in this scenario, we're

talking the lowest priority travel is they're divided. Um if you have to make choices on space, then I would for me they're in the right priorities here under this excuse specifically not general urban but with a caveat that facilities are bikes are accommodated safely in some way just maybe not in their dedicated

inside the mixus development you know kids today in 30 years they're going to be wanting to use those still I think I think it's going to be extremely important form of transportation

in 30 years it's going to be the driver of this

[laughter]

those little helicopters. Uh it it you know I think it needs to be considered pretty important inside these films because they're going to be coming in from the driveway. [snorts]

Do you think it's as important as pedestrian?

It might be in the future and maybe it's not right now. Well, no.

I got a feeling that, you know, I I don't ride any anything right now that I know my kids have and you know, all tons of kids that are out there, they're all going to grow up. And, you know, I think trying to plan, but it's very difficult to know, but just seems to me pretty important that it's going to be import outside of the development. They're going to be coming in there. It's good note that in talking about the microbility considering that in the bike facilities that will be

understand that we're considering micromobility as well in addition to facilities that

okay 30 years from now like what were these

[laughter]

everywhere.

Suburban or rural areas yet understand that the developments for suburban

low for rural would be my thought. I guess I'm just not quite understanding the pedestrian facilities in suburban areas because I know we have like sidewalks, but when I walk out of like any of the developments around me, I there aren't a lot of businesses there. So, it's mainly just that sidewalk and it's I mean it's wide enough or for a walk shoulder to shoulder. Well, I guess I'm not following the rating of space allocation. I know we've talked about how developers are required to include things. So, they are required or could be required within your insulated neighborhood.

Uh, and then as soon as they get outside of that neighborhood, they're no longer required. And that's either a state road or a town road.

Oh, okay. Well, they're required along the front of their property only. They're not required to make connections. So, that's why you get those broken segments.

So, we're just give us um some guidance here. If we were to say on suburban and on the edge of different suburban settings around a um and we said pedestrian facilities was a high priority versus a low priority, what might that mean decisions made?

So going back to some of those corridors that we're identifying that if we want folks to be able to get from their suburban neighborhoods or business centers to these activity centers to the more urban mixeduse areas, how are they getting there? Are they getting there by walking? Are they getting there by biking? Are they getting there by driving or taking transit? And so if we prioritize that pedestrian facilities are the most important, then when that decision is made to connect to a sidewalk or a side path or expand transit, the town will have a better understanding of. So when when we think about apex, tell me when it becomes. If we start from down at what point does it become

probably

and to me that is

well I'm asking these guys so that we know how

I think I think

all the green is the yellow of the suburban.

Sorry.

So, most of it.

Yes.

Okay. All right. That helps. If we want people to walk the transit, then we've got to have a good place for them.

Yeah. And we've talked before about these gaps and sidewalks and stuff.

Yeah. Schools. If we want people to get out of their cars, we got to design for me. That's a high. I guess to ask a specific question in

suburban areas. Um are sidewalks sufficient

as opposed as opposed to like a wide side path like a tinted side path.

Yeah, I think sidewalks

that's what I was generally like sidewalks would be sufficient

but sidewalks on both sides. on both sides.

You know, good crosswalks, good safe cross. That's the big challenge here. You have sidewalks going up one side.

I think the weather is going to get more extreme over the years. So, for me, sidewalk, there has to be periodic benches and some shade trees, tree canopy.

I think it means something else. I think it also means that you plow the sidewalk when you have ice storms. I think all of the weather are going to get worse and worse. So, I'm a big believer that there's a lot of amenities that go with making something profitable.

And I know we talked about public works maintaining greenways side bats. Do they treat like snow to make sure sidewalks are possible?

They cannot treat all sidewalks.

Oh, I know. I know. It's a huge ask.

So, it's usually because Elizabeth raised this question about some areas. um if there's known problem areas, if there's reported issues, they'll try to get to those because they have a lot of responsibilities.

Yeah. And they can't plow sidewalk. So, um but people do. I mean, in other parts of town, plowing sidewalks is a thing that happens during the winter. If you're like me, if you think that ice storm in the extreme winter event get worse, then you want pedestrian to be a legitimate way to be mobile to do the logistics of your life without a car, then don't even think about that 10 years from now. when they tell you to stay off.

But I don't want to miss Elizabeth what you were saying about amenities in suburban areas. So

in all of them to to I walked here and you know I was dripping with sweat and had to squirt the water and hope someone would give me a ride. It's just that in extreme heat, it's miserable to be a pedestrian. So, I think if you want people to really count on walking as a primary mode of transportation, but you can do it without a car, then it's pedestrian plus amenities as the weather gets more straight. So, um I know this is getting sorry away from the priority, but I need more details. So, um, benches, you mentioned benches and shade. Would that be specific to routes that like along residential streets or along like the routes that take you to places you need to go like to activity centers, to bus stops? For me, more than anything, it's grocery store that someone can walk from wherever they live to get groceries. Just had also mentioned previously darker spots and downs where the street lights I mean exist but don't do much for the test. So understanding that sort of the amenities uh is a package deal with pedestrian facilities. Is it as important? Um slightly less important. Go ahead and put that on there as a pilot. Medium. I think the pedestrian piece I think is

the most important to me, but I think the amenities I would say are medium because when they're not there, it's very noticeable. if you do have a long walk to get from point A to point B whether it's a grocery store or another community facility that having that is a nice feature but I don't deal breaker for somebody walking but it could be depending on the mobility

and then for the last one we can stick to suburban building integration for now um the travel way along these materials At least

I would say medium.

I guess some of the travel way you've been in suburban are still maybe do control space or is it town control space?

It's a mix. It's really a mix. the DOT roads and and town roads in suburban areas. Depends on the the classification of the roadway. So, your residential streets would be town maintained. Um, but more of your your highways for sure and your thirds would typically be more NCD. And then looking at rural, so going back to the map, extending even further out into the western and southern parts of the planning area. Um, again with those, some of these are the same roadways. It's just extending them even further. Um, does the character or allocation or priority of them change the travel way? I would expect

I think the density

same Aren't they design standards that even though the road is pretty much a road, you know, it's got to be foot wide lane, 12 foot wide lane.

If we're talking space, there's not

[clears throat] a huge difference

between what and what?

Well, there's state road standards,

but in a suburban area, you can have a two lane road with a um a turn lane or not, right? Whereas in a rural setting, can't you have a more lanes or something? I don't know.

Yeah. And even your lane widths do differ. So you can have much more narrow lanes, for example, in a place where you want people to drive more slowly than in a place where your main goal is to keep people. Is that kind of some of the traveling kind of things just languages?

You kind try to imagine like traveling on sort of an imaginary road and as you are going maybe has multiple lanes. The speeds are a little bit faster. The uh buildings are can't even see them. They're behind tree buffers really far back. And then as you are going the speed limits drop. goes down to two lanes, maybe three with a dedicated turn lane. Now, the buildings are starting to get closer to the street. You're now starting to see more amenities and a sidewalk or a side path. And then as you continue to go, the buildings get taller, they get closer, you're narrow, your lanes get more narrow. You start buses now and more ped bike facilities, things like that. So, like all of that can happen on the same road. It's just kind of the context around it will influence what that road is doing and how it groups together and how you interact

with the way this is listed. I would think that this would be to me that under rural we're expecting we need the most travel lanes which I don't know if

that's the place where it's the high priority necessarily. Yeah, I think

that might just be interpreted

because it's trying to get there, right? You're trying to get to wherever space is your destination.

Yeah. maybe different modes of education

and with the five high priorities that Elizabeth suggested that potentially creates there that they're traveling in a safer way. And that might be some of the locations where if the roadway or the travel way is more important and there's more lanes, well now you have less space to accommodate bicyclist and now they kind of go behind everything in front of place. Now still accommodating people where they're being just looking at the map. So don't know with our current transit plan the bus goes out that far to even accommodate those residents who there so that biking maybe they will go to cars

and are we thinking of accommodating with with the sidewalks that we're imagining extending out to the

maybe think so

I mean thinking about the communities in putting that out there

from a funding perspective.

So, not from a prioritization of local projects, local funding to build new sidewalk. One question that's come up just to get some specific feedback is um should we require sidewalk on both sides of residential streets in rural areas

or within a development? within a

development or is one side sufficient or both sides is helpful. I think it encourages more people to get out

use that sidewalk and I think when it's only on one side not the barrier but I think people just choose alter different alternatives using their feet. The thing is none of this is going to get less inhabited more and more people. So yeah, more sidewalks you have better and it also encourages kind of both sides. I would say both sides have that option.

But then would that mean that is we're saying

no this is not related to this. She's saying the development.

Yeah, I'm saying

in rural in rural residential areas is it important to have sidewalks on both sides of the district? As I say, if they're in rural areas, is there a high priority need to have it on both sides?

That's a question.

Safety in general, pedestrians, pedestrian safety, because even in a large development that's set out in rural parts of the community, I I still want to be able to walk safely, take kids on bikes, strollers, whatever. And when there's no sidewalk, sometimes the edge of people's yards is not an a safe spot to walk because it's different. There could be a ditch, whatever the situation is. But I think having those sidewalks on both sides makes the community more interactive that you walk you have neighbors like just connect that neighborhood not in our priority. That's my understand.

So I'm I'm asking some for something more specific than the matrix just because this is a question that's come up and we do have standards for residential streets. I think the volume

matters

because I was gonna say if you go back to the table if we said like yes to pedestrian as a high priority would there be sidewalks on both sides of every street?

No, but that's not the question she's asking. She's asking separate she's asking something separate. I think I've gotten your feedback on it um sufficiently and I know we've got more

for me it's very much about um the income level because I know there's some rural areas where it's just full of massive you know $4 million homes on really big lots and it's still rural right a rural development and then there's the old you know the little branch branch homes that have been there a long time where it's seniors and they're low income so for me if it's people might need to safely walk somewhere for their survival and they can't afford other options. They deserve sidewalks, the best sidewalks we can afford to give them. And then if it's sort of luxury home communities and it's just walking a dog, it to me is like a completely different thing. Give them a sidewalk on one side of the road that the developer pays for.

But Elizabeth, I can interject. I think what she's talking about the developer would pay for.

Yes. Right. Yeah. It would be what do we require with development? It's probably more of those million dollar homes you're talking about, but she say we would require the development sidewalks. Just think about future and see that situation where they're not the people living there are not going to be walking for survival. They're not walk to get.

No, but what we're talking about here is once they get out of that so regardless of whether they have one side or the other, right? But once they get out, how high a priority is it to house pedestrian facilities in a rural

setting?

Jenny, when we say rural like one unit per five acres,

just rural.

Okay. We need to stay on ahead since it's a package deal put this as priority facility is low. So I think this is this is good for us to work off of. Um we do have another exercise but Sh it so we can talk. Um would you rather do the bike facility?

No, I think let's just we can preview this as just something that we're going to be grappling with. Um if you want to provide feedback um when we get to this exercise, we can also the third public forum. We really want this group to attend. That's another opportunity for you to provide feedback. Um, but we're going to be looking closely at the different types of bike facilities and where we recommend them. Um, and there's a lot of variety. This is one of the most difficult transportation problems. I think there's a different types of riders. Um, so just I guess a preview if you could please help us at public forum three share your input when we bring now it'll be fall um I think um this will be something we want we want you to provide comment

maybe you can email us once you have the date

I will I will email the sooner we can get it

Okay. And then we did just have open discussion for us to gather around this table and look at the maps if you all have experience or learn from others of updates or issues that we need to make this map um or the the thoroughare collector street plan, the bike pet plan and the transit plan. That is something that we need to do. But also I know you guys have other on your agenda.

We can spend some time on it, but we don't have We try to get out at 6:45, but um we need to get through this business.

We have the plans here. You guys don't mind coming over here. And this is really just like a brain dump. If you probably had thoughts that you have needed to get out or didn't know who to talk to about them or have experienced something where this bus stop's always flooded, I can't even access it. Like that's good to know.

Can you focus on the transit plan and then plan to understand issues that And and just keep in mind um these are like long range plants. So not necessarily we need a trash can or like you know um this is like overall facilities comments on those. So maybe one map at a time.

Yeah.

Focus focus group's most familiar with transit. So I'd say let's start And so, um, like some of the activity centers that you saw, you know, that's here at the Beaver Creek Commons area, it's sort of over here where Sweetwater is our trans.

No, currently. No,

correct. So, yeah. So what you're looking at um is these different colored lines are the regional and then local existing and plant bus service. So,

so what input do you want

if you have if you've experienced challenges in the transit system that you think need to be addressed in the future plan? What just because the lines are lower with the existing system? What are some of the more significant proposed changes to this existing existing set? saying some of the bigger stuff that is proposed is are is the addition of routes. So the go apex route two the dot

dot

does not

where would be the new friendship library

down here?

Yeah.

There any desire to connect to that library as well? I think we'd like to connect to the closer in one.

Yeah, even from here would be great to have it stop because that gives you internet service and other like towns resources.

Think about this.

That's what I was saying. You think it closer? You think it closer?

Just library connection.

Well, that's why I'm asking for focus. You're asking for problems we've had. You're talking about 205. So, are we talking now or future? I I want to know more about the future. So we just did the apex of prioritization to identify the routes that are here now. So what do we need to be thinking about bigger

two having more routes having

I would hope by 2055 we have just more buses generally like fulls size city

buses but I mean ridership aside I want it to look like a real transit system and I've lived in often and the transit system is amazing so I want actual buses and more than one bus the same circuit

and going opposite direction.

Yes. Going.

Yes.

North south.

I mean I vision for me is you can live out here here. Wherever the area is that we're going to focus on you can instead of having to drive in say oh I want to go downtown for dinner. Yes. I can go there.

I can grab the bus. I can grab the bus and then I can go over to the movie theater if it is still there and you know that sort. So make it easy to pick up a bus and go without just taking two hours because you have

you know

the situation we have now.

So something more circular

with um better time

maybe a hub and spoke sort of thing or something but I'm not a transportation person. I just what would work for me.

Where is the mobility hub going to be? That's somewhere off downtown.

Right there.

And is that bus and train? That's the vision.

Exist.

Yeah.

So, Gay, what you're saying about being able to pick up a bus anywhere

and have convenient access to where you go,

more coverage of stuff. Is that everywhere in the planning area or should we concentrate that type of service?

Well, it would seem to make sense to focus around this um more densely populated areas. I mean, if you can, you know, money is no object. Yeah. Let's make it all apex. You can cut it down. Correct. But it is a hospital.

So go where the people are more densely concentrated

and depending on how big the town is

trying to divide. Like from a system I used to experiencing they have parking ride lines. So you would park in the rural areas, park your car, and then catch a bus into a subway or bus into a train. So if we just have a bus system in 2055, some kind of park and ride aspect to get you into downtown to make it so you don't have to necessarily drive the entire way.

Right. So to to what Jennifer was saying like a connector area because I don't think there's any transit connectivity in this southwestern part of Apex

where a lot of the future grow.

If that's where we're expanding to, we need to make sure they're included in the options for transit. even if it looks at like park and ride to get them into the system somehow.

Okay, let's hope that we get didn't actually read that part.

Yes, I can't.

Yeah, I like that idea because and it I mean I know not everything's going to happen. I tend to focus here because I live near here. But if you've got these activity centers, you want people to be able to get

to them relatively easy.

So without having to get in the car.

Yeah. But some of those rural communities, you're not going to get I don't think you're going to get the same bus stop coverage you're going to get in center.

So maybe want your input on this too. So one thing that I am wondering about is the 64 corridor when it comes to transit because we have these proposed more mixed use areas. So almost like you know intensifying Beaver Creek, intensifying the Costco complex is the concern is the DOT plan that was in the works two three years ago that's now been pushed I believe to 2028 where they're taking out all the traffic signals between US1 and

like lower Duncan and putting in concrete walls still on the books.

So D is moving forward with uh an interchange. So basically ramp

where you get off the right hand side over road or whatever

and implementation.

Yeah. So 64 will be a highway.

They're going to make it sounding like super highway. Last meetings I attended with concrete walls traffic signals to slow people down like they're trying to make it more of an express connector.

Yeah. So, I mean, for now, you'll still have the, you know, super street at Jenx, um, Richardson,

but we're showing all these mixed use areas along that corridor, but it's very much a carcentric corridor,

so in terms of transit, we don't have any plans. It won't be bike safe if they go forward with some of the changes. I wouldn't think

unless you have a bridge that goes over. Well, you will for the cross streets like where like Pine is and where Duncan is from what I saw on there.

But she's talking about these potential bridge.

Oh, are you talking about this part of the brown spots?

Okay.

Or over here by the library.

Really?

Yeah. And so they are doing flyover streets for some of it. Get off on an exit ramp and have to go to a light left or right

to get to the things on either side. Costco, Sweetwater, I'm guessing we'll end up in that at some point. but they've got lights there already. So, I don't know what their plan is for that. Um, but it definitely doesn't feel pedestrian or transit was part of their considerations in that decision making. We don't have to have the answer, but to me that's extremely

to provide transit along the border like

I still wanted above ground light rail, but DOT told me no. They told me it

wasn't feasible. And I said, "We've got median the whole way down from almost the Chattam County line to Garner. There's grass pretty much between that. You do have to get over the felt line on certain chunks of it." But I said, "Why can't we do one above ground light rail? We don't have the snow that Chicago has." I'm like, "Can we look at the study?" again didn't like my question, but I I think there are other transit options because the train option with the mobility hub that's going in it what was presented at least a couple years ago was had to catch a train in Apex to ride into downtown Kerry and then catch a connector to get into B. No one is going to do that if it takes you 45 minutes to get where you can get by 20 minutes.

They're just not. I mean, even if you have to sit in traffic on the belt line to get there, 30 years from now, I don't see the traffic being any better because they keep repaving the existing infrastructure.

I kind of can you repeat your your question here? I'm not I think lost from what you're trying to get us to think about with the 64. Well, I think right now it's um does do others agree that's a problem? [laughter] Is this, you know, a problem that we need to think?

Well, it's just it's going to be more dense if we follow that and it's going to dump a lot more problems at 64, right? So, um it seems like you want a way to at least connect like if I'm living now at the imagine new cool Beaver Creek um place with the then senior housing center that I'm living in. Um I love it. I want to get downtown Raleigh in my, you know, 75. Then I have to get in. You can catch the 305, but you still have to get yourself to the bus stop.

But I'm just saying if it doesn't serve, you know. So, yeah, I think it's a problem.

You know, a lot of a lot of cities have inter.

Yep.

This is going to off.

So, it's almost making sure it's making sure we've got good connections across 64. Is that um I'll just call it the orange blob. The western most orange blob.

Yeah,

that's sweet water.

That's sweet water.

Is that sweet water?

That's okay.

You're a little further west.

Yeah.

Okay. If I think 30 years into the future, I would want every single bus stop to have weather protection. At least a sheltered up top. I feel like we could do that in 30 years, assuming that the weather's going to get more extreme.

Yeah. I think we should borrow what Carrie's doing. We're a paratransit door to door. If age is an eligibility factor currently, it's anyone over age 60. I know that's expensive. I would settle for anyone over age 70.

We have that through.

No, we can't.

No, we don't. Okay. We have to be on Medicaid recipient on diialysis or live in a rural area.

And our fair transit is the federal require disability

not age based. So expanding

door to door to expanded eligibility to

Yes.

And 30 years now you're going to have four skills here.

Oh the children's hospital

is that where is that is that the [clears throat] section right here?

Okay. It's got to be connected to transit because you goties.

Oh, they do. Yeah.

Just off the mix areas consider

No. So, they could, but it's not required. Um, a lot of the mixed use areas have uh mixed types of residential but affordable housing is something more of a negotiation and where the challen is Durham's had extraordinary success doing direct shuttles that go from an area where seniors live or senior housing complex and it's direct one day a week for 5 hours midday day to food line and to Walmart and back. That's all it does for those areas. Here's incredibly popular. And uh I think that's an option for us rather than doing expansion of low ridership routes like to the library. It may be brilliant to go to the library all day long, seven days a week, but I think it would be right suitable to do that once a week or even twice a week or I'm sorry, twice a month even have a library shuttle when you know it's going walking distance from your house. I think that's a way to think about pockets of low income or elderly or disabled that

just direct pick up at like the housing complex.

Right. Right there. Right there. And it's door to door. then it goes door to door to Walmart. Whereas our bus kind of is Walmart adjacent. You don't actually go to Walmart at all. But that that would be perfect. I would if that was eligible for me. I would just plan to do all my shopping that day. And you can do three grocery bags per trip because they try to fill it with people. That's kind of the issue. You can't bring massive amounts of cat litter or something to fill the little shuttle bus up.

Make the cart thing too,

right? Yeah,

I think that's a way to address the low ridership issue, right? That's it's making people they're able to

logistically take care of the essential things they need for their life.

You're not having to ride the bus through eight or nine stops. You don't care about when you know you can plan your errands of, okay, if I get the bus at 9:00, I'll be at Walmart before 10, can get back on and get home. I'm not wasting the whole day circling Apex. I think there's many problems with assuming that a more complex fixed route service is going to ever attract a more affluent population. And this is the whole thing for me is thinking about the demographics of poverty who rides because right now the number one growth population for our bus is the homeless. We've hit the critical mass, right? Most likely scenario is I ride by myself, no one knows who's on the second most likely is it's me. There's two homeless men sleeping in the back. It really people don't kind of understand what's happening on go apex and so it means something different at your transit hub. If the homeless are significant population, then you need security guards and lighting. There just all these issues and the more that you have people who riff is the word that the critics use on Facebook, but then people who are affluent and have a lot of cars at their fancy house, they're not going to want to ride that or want their teenage daughter

writing that.

I think we need to really think about

But you know what? Yeah, I I think that's important. But you also, if you design for cars, you're just going to keep getting more cars. You got to design for something else or you won't get it.

Yeah.

Um and it's, you know, I can afford to get to have a car and have it in my house, but I would rather not get in it every time.

And and some people that's about the price of gas, but for some people it's about not polluting. And it's just I would like to feel I mean if I think about 205 I would love to be able to walk out of my house in Cat Hall and

grab the bus right at the end of the street not halfway down halfway downtown but and say to my friends hey let's go grab a bike and we don't need our cars

need for lunch somewhere and not have to drive to do it.

Yeah. I mean, and how beautiful would that be? And what a great place Apex would even greater than the speed now if when you drove I love the way you uh drew that painted that picture for us if you're driving down the road. That was really good. We should do that from the beginning. Um but I would love people to be coming through and hit a

Yeah. What is this place where all these people are walking? They have a bike the bike lane.

I think that's a great segue into the second she wants us to give.

Yeah. And ideas for pedestrian cycling.

I think we've addressed a lot of it with just making sure the sidewalks are connected.

That's that to me is the biggest issue. I don't cycle, but I do like to walk places. And just knowing I can get there and not have to step into the street. When I've been walking even down tents and to meet friends, there are sections that gap and I'm having to go, okay, are there cars behind me? They're going to mow me down because I can't cross to the other side to walk with like against the cars like you're supposed to because I'm only I'm only on one side and I can't imagine like

I like the greenways and and but are all the greenways well? Well, I was gonna say anything with biking to me, anything would keep me unless it's really safe. I like it. I was looking at that one slide because there's some options that I would like on but some connection to go up the trail park. They're so cool that you can do that. I mean that's all

carry to get there. So opportunities for getting the transportation through ways with those connections to greenways to sidewalks to where it's civil or or new um types of greenway I mean um bike lanes. I think it's great for moving people who either are doing it for recreation or getting places. So if there's any specific areas where you know you know this should be a high prior because as you was saying we have a lot plans but I want built so if there's any like high priority areas where you think

well the 55 corridor

are there bike lanes on 55

any any

because I know 751 doesn't clubs

like to come out there and it's like they can't write single file because there's 25 of them.

I'm sorry.

You call 55 is fine of the mixed use plan and now I there are places I would want.

Yeah. So the plan with 55 is that there would be side paths. So 10 foot wide path on at least one side for the entire length through the we'll say the mixed use area.

Um

I know there's sidewalk

that would make a big difference there.

And you said they're making changes like one of the bridges over 55 for that person.

So the dot project that's funded is from US1 to Olive Chapel. So Olive Chapel

is that where the where the post

Yeah, because that corridor between like I even think like downtown Salem Street

to the post office is ridiculously narrow and heavily traveled and so I don't know if that's which where

from Salem Street to where like almost almost all of Chapel Walgreens is

that stretch to me seems really narrow and very highly traveled.

Okay. like making a left out of the post office certain times a day is like oh just forget that like

Yeah. No, I don't.

Yes. [laughter] Yeah.

Replace that bridge.

Yeah, they are.

Well, yeah,

eventually.

Well, in the Sale I know Salem Street, North Salem Street running up to 64. There's lots of talk about what's going to happen with that.

Yes.

Yeah. But that I live in also live there. That's got worse and worse and worse and worse from a

traffic safety schooling.

It's because of Bailey's. It's because there's just a lot of traffic there. It's um but I mean I don't know how much it's a lot. It's different times but it's just more heavily traffic.

Okay. And I know they're putting in a pedestrian crossing there, but between um it's really just that piece of Salem Street between Hunter and 64.

Yeah.

Where the car the car dealership is.

I think so. Yeah.

Crossroads. Yeah. It's my landmark. Yeah. The railroad. I was looking at that.

Yeah. So,

and that is right there. And so, even though they did all they did, traffic,

what kind of input is overall something you want?

No, this is the sort of thing that we wanted to give you guys. if you had if

you had thoughts about critical areas, priorities, give you a chance to provide that. I realize it's almost done now. Um,

so real quick, I was going to say crazy thought if the future of 64 is to become even a larger thoroughare than it already is. What about the increase in pedestrian or biking there as an alternative means of transportation since there would be more traffic potentially? There was there won't be

is there any way to like create an alternate path?

No, like off the side. I've seen that before.

Almost call it um

I don't know. Yeah,

I've seen it off of 66 and Fairfax and I've seen it in other places where what you describe is like an off-road

kind of like that 10 foot side path

like they do wildlife paths for

like the deer fly over

though it was pedestrian facilities were looked at as part of the 64 corridor um and really cut off when it gets into the apex area because of the roads needed the interchanges.

Well, that's where I wonder if the greenways because like I'm seeing, you know, and I know this one because it's in my neighborhood hall. Could you connect over to North,

you know, if you can connect those green bases?

Yeah. So, an off road 64 that

that's a great idea. And they've

it's pretty close

with part of the 64 project though they did talk about like the roads at Shepherd's Junior Drive creating a tunnel under 64 to connect the Harris Peter side. So I'm wondering if you could even like in some way connect that

road and then tie into some of the greenways. There is a green that wants

Yeah, they will Shepherd's Vineyard will be extended well based on

Yeah.

Okay.

You've almost got it alternative connected hall. Is that in the plans to make that connection for home?

So as a prior sounds like as a priority make sure that this is continuous and um complete years. So [clears throat] if 64, just to kind of merge these together, 64 is not going to be pedestrian or bicycle friendly, there's no connectivity out here with all the development over here. Almost in the same way that there would be park and ride to connect down here, but some level of connectivity on 64 to get in here in the same way.

You got to do something. I mean, you can't just abandon them out there if you want them to use the system if you I mean, if that's not a priority, then they can drive in. But

because I was just thinking like in terms of like connectivity, whatever that mode of transportation looks like, whether it's a bus, a train, a plane, whatever the case might be,

have a have opportunity here for connectivity on 64, on 55, and US1. Are you talking about the park and ride idea

or just whether it's a park and ride or just an opportunity to connectivity to connect like

mobility hub?

Mobility hub. Yes, that's the word I was looking for.

That the transit system touches out there.

Yes. If there's a mobility hub like to say I would love because in the future I

would love to get to downtown Kerry or downtown Raleigh. I don't know what transportation larger is going to look like in the 30 years, but like when I lived in Fairfax, like I drove 10 minutes uh 10 minutes to get to a either a bus station or a train station and I could get to anywhere. So like if if you look at the entry points west kind of southwest and southsoutheast having some level of motion to connect

to connect into the system. Yeah,

that makes sense.

All right, I think we should probably wrap this up even though it's really helpful. So, um I would just encourage you all to come to public forum three and you can do more of this and see the draft recommendations and react to those.

Is that specifically about transportation or no?

It will public form three will have the place type map. Um

is it the whole plan? It's the whole plan. It will include the transportation.

You have pretty big emphasis this time.

Transportation. So that's in August.

We don't have a date yet. It won't be August.

Not sure.

Sometime in the fall,

but we have some things to wrap up. Should we return?

Might have to leave it. Understood. [laughter] All right. Thank you for being everybody's in touch. That's great feedback and

um so uh just a few more agenda items. Um fiscal year 2027 work plan subcommittee updates. Um thanks everybody for their in for getting on a committee and um working on these subcommittees. And I think two of the committees at the community outreach committee The first meeting will be next Friday. So they haven't met yet, but the infrastructure. So infrastructure y'all met yesterday.

Yeah, I can give an update. We met Monday. We decided on kind of an informal committee where vice chair just kind of discussions in the decision. Um we initially with the work list that we created there was four activities. We combined one with another one. So we only have three um three strategic tasks we have. First is regarding street design and DBO amendments. The committee's going to review with staff design standards as well as the proposed bike and pedestrian ordinance changes addition that I think the peak planning said would be probably September we have that kind of meeting and then the be in October. I think we talked more since I think the public forum is probably going to be the biggest opportunity for input on those street designs in addition to today's discussion.

So yeah, at least the infrastructure committee would participate in that probably

uh the second task is uh project prioritization for this improvements program. We will with staff support the CIP review process and advocate for multiple growth projects. There will be in September I think you your staff request will be submitted well presented anyway and then later be submitted to the council. Uh that would be total recommendations will help integrate multip uh and then third task was uh developing grant support letters. So we work with staff to draft support letters for their funding grant application. The two primary ones are the LAP ministry projects. That's

uh and then later in January is the community funding area. We would think work with them to develop the total response from factory initial draft. That's what we have so far. Notice I missed anything.

Um the next was safety committee. Elizabeth and I met on the 18th um for our first meeting. We also decided not to have chair and co-chair since the two of us. Um we addressed two of our biggest priorities. The first one being the safety concerns and I believe it was phrased like the slow but I think we actually that slightly were more general safety concerns with the use bus not just the

boarding slope because there were other safety issues that came up as we were discussing. Um and then the second issue which I believe will be tabled for our next meeting um was the walk school safety um initiative and trying to focus on concerns safety wise about families getting from where they are to where their children attend school making sure that's a safe

we have wanted to expand the title of our group to safety and accessibility that they are completely linked I don't know what we need to do formally. See if you all agree with that.

Yeah, I think we do need to have a formal action and we could bring that in September.

Um Shannon,

so theformational updates were circulated in your premeating packet. Um I don't have anything specific but if there was anything that you had questions about this is a time for that. I had one question noticed trend where normally transit operations when weather gets cold ridership goes down whereas I noticed on this ridership as soon as it started getting cold ridership picked up and then when it started warming up dropped off just anybody else noticed that

I can explain it is the homeless homeless people are filling the bus on those really cold days cold rainy winter days there's They're not residents. It's the homeless people who might have three or four circling for loop.

Okay.

And that's a new phenomenon in my observation started since November 1st when go carry nine. Made it easier for people

who are unhoused to go from Raleigh to

Carry Apex. And you can just loop. You can take one and then do the nine and then do the two. You can just keep looping looping looping on low ridership buses. So,

in my opinion, that is entirely what that is.

I had a comment. I I was glad that you include the miss trips list on the top. It was illuminating and interesting. Go triangle has an email alert notification system and one can subscribe for go impacts route one, but we don't use it and it alerts you when buses aren't completing their routes. I think that's really useful. is proactive. I know for me if I see that the go triangle 305 if they missed a route because of mechanical failure I don't write at all that day or the next day. It kind of gives you a warning that they got trouble on board. So I wish we would use that if the go apex problems are as frequent as that list would

do have a system for that through the go carry app. If you log in and set notifications, they'll send you should get those alerts on your phone.

But they're not coming by email, are they?

You can set it to come by email if you want it to.

Okay, then that isn't active for me because mine should have that setting.

You have to go into your settings to enable it basically.

Okay. Yeah. But I get those, you know, I've set it up to make sure I get those. At this point, we'll just open it up for any other business that was discussed that someone needs to bring up. If not, thank you all for a great meeting. Oh, I actually need a formal motion if I

could for the

adjournment. So,

thank you.

Thank you. and my shell that I'm recording.

I did not. I think we Tell me what happened. Did you have somebody saying