Regular Meeting

Hey, hey, hey.

Heat. Heat. [music]

[music]

Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat. call to order the November 20th meeting of the Kerry Town Council. And at this time, I'll recognize Council Member Con Johnson for our ceremonial opening.

Thank you, Mayor. Um I'm Good evening, everyone. And I'm really happy to share um information with everybody about the town of K's annual Heart of Kerry celebrations. Um it's about to transform our downtown into a magical destination. again this year and it's it's really no wonder that we're on the media's cutest Christmas town list. Um we'll officially kick off the season with our spectacular tree lighting ceremony, making it really the start of twinkling season and the lights and sounds across Kerry. But um the

heart of this celebration lies in the diversity of the things that we're doing here. And we're proud to host meaningful events that reflect many traditions from around the community. Um, we have our cherished Manura lighting ceremony and that celebrates our the festival of lights and we'll honor African-American heritage with our vibrant Kwanza celebration and that's got music and cultural activities and community togetherness. And for those seeking other inclusive events, we make sure to visit our spectacular Chinese Lantern Festival at Cocoa Booth Amphitheater through early January. Um, it's a bright and beautiful way to celebrate the coming of light as your year draws to a close and the days get shorter and darker. And there will also be family favorites like the viewing of handcrafted gingerbread houses, a Mottown a Mottown Christmas performance, which I didn't know about until today. So, I'm excited for that one. And our annual community focused gifting tree project. And there's really a lot more. So, the heart of the holidays, it's it's a season that's dedicated to bringing all of the traditions here in Kerry, the cultures and the neighbors together. And it looking forward to celebrating with everybody. Um, but I also want to make sure that folks know where to find the information so you can see all the events on our carnc.gov website. Really, the easy way to get to it, just search Kerry Heart of the Holidays. I checked it in two different browsers. It comes right up. and the links and the full calendar are there so that you can find out what there is and and you know put it on your own calendar. Um, additionally, council member Jack Smith was inducted into the order of the long leaf pine. Congratulations, Jack. And [applause] I w I asked him to please propose the toast now that he can anytime he wants to.

Is that right?

Anytime you want.

Wow, that's good. So, we're all going to hold up your proverbial cup. You can use your iPhone and just put a little cup on it or something. And uh so here is the long leaf pine toast. Here's to the land

of the long leaf pine, the summerland where the sun doth shine. Where the weak grow strong and the strong grow great. Here's to down home the old north state. Cheers everybody. Cheers. Thank you. Now, please join us in the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[snorts] [clears throat]

All right, we're now at the item number two. Item number back up. We're at the beginning of the meeting where we need to motion to adopt the agenda.

So moved.

So moved. And is there a second?

Second.

There's a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Now we have an agenda and we can move forward. First, we move to recognitions, reports, and presentations. And I would uh the first one is capital Area preservation anthem anthem anthemian.

Gosh, that's hard for me to [laughter] say. Award for the relocation and rehabilitation of the historic Ivy Ellington House. And I'll turn it over to council member Michelle Craig who can help me speak when I need to. And for

it's only because I practiced it.

Oh wow. [laughter] So on September 23rd this year, the Ivy Ellington Project was awarded the Anthemian Award through Capitol Area Preservation. Anthemian Awards recognize outstanding dedication and commitment to excellence in historic preservation in Wake County. The Ivy Ellington joins other past Enthemian awards such as Kerry Art Center, Paige Walker, and multiple historic homes, as well as individuals and townwide preservation initiatives. Preserving Car's rich

history has long been a priority for our town council, and the Ivy Ellington project is an example of that commitment. Built in the 1870s, I [clears throat] think I should have drank a little bit more of that water when we were toasting. Built in the 1870s, the charming Gothic style cottage faced an uncertain future as its original site was slated for development. Rather than see the piece of our past lost, the council made the decision to recolocate and restore the home. Selecting the new site on Academy Street involved thoughtful planning and careful consideration. From finding a setting a setting that honored the home's historic character to ensuring the necessary infrastructure was already in place, the Ivy Ellington joins a growing list of adaptive reuse successes in Kerry, including the Page Walker Arts and History Center, the Kerry Arts Center, and the Kerry Theater. Each of these projects reflects our dedication to preserving history while reimagining its use for generations to come. Thanks to the partnership with Thoughtcraft Architects, we were able to restore many of the home's original features that had been lost over time while also adapting the space to meet modern needs. The project was truly a team effort. At this time, I'd like to ask everyone who played a part in the relocation and renovation of the IvyTe Ellington House, including members of the Historic Preservation Commission and the Friends of Paige Walker to stand and be recognized. [applause] And I do have I do have the award here tonight. We we do have um we will be having it framed and it will be in the Ivy Ellington. Um there's um maybe a small misprint on here that we have to get fixed before we have it framed. So I didn't want you to think we were just throwing it around. We will we will get that framed so everybody can see it. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Congratulations. So, next we have the storm water team recognition. And at this time, I'll

recognize our town manager, Sean Stigle, for the recognition. Um, tonight I would like to take a moment to recognize the remarkable work happening in Kerry's stormwater program and a person who has helped shape it into what it is today. Billy Lee, our storm water operations manager, was recently named the H. Rooney Malcolm Stormwater Professional of the Year by the American Public Works Association's North Carolina chapter. It's a statewide award that celebrates technical excellence, but in Billy's case, it also celebrates his heart and humility. One of the one of his most transformative contributions has been the implementation of our adaptive management framework. This approach connects staff across departments and includes external stakeholders in the conversation. These working groups foster open dialogue, generate creative solutions, and have directly led to major policy changes, most notably Car's adoption of a 100red-year detention ordinance. In addition, under his guidance, Carrie developed a stream sensor and rain gauge network that gives us live data to anticipate and respond to flooding. So, while this award has Billy's name on it, it reflects the whole stormwater team's commitment to learning, improving, and innovating in service to this community. Their work may not always be visible, but it's found it's foundational to carry safety, sustainability, and quality of life. Billy, on behalf of council and your colleagues, thank you for your expertise and dedication in keeping car's systems strong and resilient. [applause] Thank you. Uh it's a great honor to be recognized for our contribution in storm water and I'm including everyone. Uh I want to thank council and the town manager's office for supporting us throughout the years. Uh stormwater is truly a team sport. We could not do what we do without the partnership uh and

collaboration of all the departments and divisions across Kerry. I also want to thank my family for their consistent support. This this recognition belongs to the entire stormwater division. As Sean pointed out, it's truly a team effort and their hard work and dedication have been an inspiration to witness. It's a pleasure to work alongside such an an exemplary group of individuals. Thank you.

Thank you.

[applause]

So for those of us that have served a long time, we remember when storm water was a major issue like weekly it seemed like and you guys have taken us a long way and we really appreciate that. Thank you for all you've done.

All right, we're now ready for the town manager up update. Mr. Steel.

Thank you, mayor. One of the many things that makes Kerry stand out among other cities and towns in the nation is that our parks, police, and fire departments are all nationally accredited. These accreditations have to be renewed through lengthy processes every few years. This week, the fire department had its peer team visit from the Commission on Fire Accreditation International, and I'm pleased to announce that earlier today, the team said it would be recommending us for full re reacredititation. Four team members from the fire departments across the country toured facilities and spoke to staff from fire as well as multiple other town departments to verify and validate documents and processes. We should know this spring whether the commission approved the team's recommendation. If they do, it will be the Kerry Fire Department's sixth accreditation dating back to 198 1999. That con concludes my report. Mayor,

thank you, Mr. Steagel. All right, we now move to public speaks out. We've included instructions for speaking at this forum online and [snorts] on the printed agenda. There were three opportunities to participate in public speaks out through written comments by

calling in or by attending here in person tonight. And if you are here attending in person tonight and would like to speak, I'd ask that you sit in the rows to my right that are highlighted. Public speaks out speakers have three minutes each for their comments and may speak on any town related topic as long as it's not a public hearing and that's to your benefit. Public hearing speakers get more time. The threeminut time limit will be enforced. Not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers. We have a timer on the podium. It'll start off with a green light. When it turns yellow, that means you have 30 seconds remaining. And when it flashes red, that means your time is expired. And that's the point where I will interrupt you again, not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers. I would ask that our speakers be respectful in their comments and direct the comments to the entire council and not to an individual. I thank everyone in the audience for understanding and respecting that this is a business meeting. Please do not applaud, make remarks from your seats, use props, or do anything else that may distract from the meeting. So now is the time for public speaks out and first I'll call on our clerk for any written comments or any registered speakers.

We had two registered speakers, no written comments. Our first register speaker is Daniela Zipkin. Hello. It's wonderful to see you all again. I'm Danielleaella Zipkin. I have a very simple visual handout just shows where I live. Um I am from the Western Manor neighborhood and I spoke before regarding the resoning the 2024 REZ14 at the Western PDD amendment. Um, it's an ongoing conversation and I just wanted to show up again and say hello. But also that I I since the last time I was here, I saw the land use study, the draft

Weston um, mobility and land use study. And I think it's beautiful. Just wanted to say I think it's actually really exciting what everyone has in mind for the Weston area. And I'm pretty I think it's neat that I'm here for it, that my family's here for it. Um, and I found our neighborhood mentioned in 2003 where some mixed use was desired and and the neighborhoods that were built, my neighborhood outlined in orange um was thought to be a little too um isolated, little maybe too suburban in style. And now the question is, well, how do we mix it all in? And that's what partly what this resoning is about. You know, to be honest, we like our quiet neighborhoods. That's why we bought there. Um it's sort of nestled in, you know, close to the greenway and all that. Um, I just wanted to request that we continue to focus the highest density development north of Weston. Um, that's where all the cool stuff can be and then think about more of our transition abuing our neighborhood and and our neighbors at Beexley. Um, the lot in question highlighted in orange is 8 acres as you know and I think 300 families uh in apartment buildings will uh be far too dense. It'll be the most dense thing in the area by by far. There's no precedent for this on our side of Weston. Um, so I request that the applicant um that the application be rejected in its current form. I realize there may also be revisions and I don't have the up tothem minutee form, but rejected in the form that I've seen and resubmitted with the original 70 town home option that was in it uh in the beginning. Uh I think that vision would work really well to transition to all the cool stuff that's going to be built. um this would be more in line for the vision for the future for Carrie and I do think that this little parcel um could end up swaying a lot of the future development. So the decision we make now is a pretty big one. So we'll continue to be in touch and look forward to coming back and welcoming the new council members as well.

Thank you.

Our next um register speaker is Marina Crosby.

Good evening and thank you for this space. I really wish I didn't feel I needed it, but I do. Um what I'm going to say is out of concern um in my opinion democracy is under like a stress stress test and paradigms are changing in this environment. Expressions of heartbreak from our elected officials are not nearly enough. The fact that local law enforcement is not cooperating with federal forces is good but not enough. I would like a clear boundary of what our local police will and will not allow to happen to our citizens. Is kidnapping now allowed? Is assault now allowed? Do we all need to submit to unidentified masked men? Can Border Patrol or ICE arrest people for driving infractions, car accidents, noise disturbances? What are the guidelines for an arrest by federal law enforcement? Don't they need to identify in order to arrest people? Something like as simple as tinted windows. Do we now allow and carry tinted windows? During this week, I realized that people do not feel they can call 911. Our local law enforcement may need training in federal law in order to make sure it is followed locally. We don't need broken hearts. We need brave hearts that find ways to protect all of us from these new dangers. Once due process is lost is lost for all of us. Expressions of solidarity with those affected presumes that some of us are not affected. In order to debunk that notion, I request that the council publish the total impact of this operation in Kerry, included but not limited to types of

businesses and days of businesses that were closed during this week, absences from work, economic calculation of loss, K12 absences in schools, number of arrest including total number arrests of people with criminal charges, civil immigration charges, and arrest of legal residents and citizens. My point is that we're all impacted, including this council and the Kerry police police, which we're all looking at. This afternoon, there was local law enforcement serving a warrant and many people were checking on them in case it was federal forces. I'm sure that complicated their work. I want to see metrics of the impact and actions to protect the citizens citizenry. Thank you.

Thank you.

No additional registered speakers.

If you're here in the audience tonight and would like to speak at public speaks out on any topic that's not a public hearing, now's your opportunity and I will invite you forward.

Good evening, council. I want to first say that I'm here tonight in solidarity.

What's your name, please? Oh, Felicia Moore,

thank you.

Um, I want to first say that I am here tonight in solidarity with my fellow advocate, Marina Crosby, who just spoke um and the message she delivered. Um, while I was here, I wanted to talk again about transparency. After talking to more citizens around me and creating a very quickly uh gotten petition for the ask that the council stream all of its public meetings, I wanted to deliver those names. Uh, that's what I've handed to the clerk. This petition gathered signatures through link sharing in local spaces. And the document attached is names of folks who directly asked me to add their name but didn't want to deal with putting their email in the petition site. I know that staff is working on gathering more information around the ask. But I also feel it is important for council to know that I'm not a lonely

citizen asking for this type of transparency and to help some of those other voices be heard as well. I also want to give a shout out of thanks to Councilwoman Bush for live streaming as much of the district B meeting as possible from her phone recently. I was appreciative of that and I heard from other citizens as well that they were um I had another meeting to attend that night and I was able to catch up with that because it was streamed. It's for reasons like that among many more that I think that this type of transparency is super important for making you guys accessible to all of the citizens in all of the ways. I am going to continue to keep urging y'all to stream your public meetings. Um, I was going to read this petition, [clears throat] but I'm not going to do that. I'm gonna say I have heard that there's a a potential proposal uh happening right now, and I'm looking forward to seeing that. Uh, thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else for public speaks out? Hi, my name is Toby Burla. I've been living in Kerry for just two years now, but I love it here. Wonderful place. Thank you for your service. Thank you to the gentleman who serves in the police for his service. I'm feeling very emotional tonight, friends, when I think about the last phrase of the pledge of allegiance with liberty and justice for all. Are we really guaranteeing that? I know that you can't control what the federal government does. You're not in charge of immigration policy. I understand that. But it really disturbs me to see people being grabbed off the street by masked men with no identification. It's not right. We shouldn't allow this to happen in our community. We shouldn't allow it anywhere in our country. Because as the earlier speaker said, it affects all of us. Just because I happen to have been born here and I'm a full

citizen, just go back three generations to my ancestors. The same thing could have happened to them. And I think all of us should take responsibility for doing everything we can to protect our civil rights. I agree with the speaker. The town of Kerry should make a report about the way all of these things are impacting all of us. The costs, the way it makes it harder for our local law enforcement to do their jobs, the kids that are scared to go to school, the people that are afraid to go out. It's not okay. And I think the town should say that. If I were to pull up in a minivan with some friends of mine wearing tactical gear and put on masks and started grabbing people, that would be called kidnapping. It can't be right to allow that to happen to our neighbors, even though some of them are not here with documentation. And I want us to all do everything we can to protect people. I I thank uh Council Member Bonsal for writing back to my email today and Mayor Weinre for writing back twice to me. I really appreciate it. I understand it's not your control, but let's do everything we can to help our neighbors. Thank you. Thank you.

Anyone else for public speaks out?

Hi, I'm Elizabeth Murray. I'm a resident here in Kerry. Um, I feel it was necessary to come here tonight due to a issue with one of the streets, Old Apex Road. There is some major construction there due to the I guess the water line basically is being installed right now. I live in that area. It dramatically affects me and other residents. Um, I have not been given and do not have the full information of what that is transpiring as far as installing the water line. We do have I live in the

town houses there. It has come up up upon our entrance. It's going to be happening very soon. It could be even tomorrow. The way the road is being blocked off and things are being put in, I think is very unsafe for the residents accessing that area. There is a school across the street during school time. It is very, very congested. It is a much hazard. I have called in a couple of times. I have spoken to some people. I do not know what they have in store. From what I have heard, um, some things were overlooked. The town of Kerry bought the land there at the town homes. There was supposed to been in a sidewalk. It was missed for many, many years. It sounds like it's finally come upon them that they're going to put that sidewalk in. I have not seen anything on paper. It's all hearsay. And when they're coming to the town homes now, it appears they're going to be digging up the street. Digging up the street and putting things in the dirt area is very different. If you dig up the street right there, it's going to impact us dramatically. Right now, they have put a piece of metal down where the apartments are and getting to the land in front of the town homes. It's very dangerous. So, at night when you go through there, which I travel a lot, you go clunky clunk. It's very, very dangerous. A lot of cars are swerving over to the middle lane. We have oncoming traffic. Someone could hit head-on. During the time frame when individuals are out there, it is blocked off. So you go around that piece of metal that's in the road. I have in, you know, mentioned it to someone out there on the location and like I'm not the person to tell. I'm like, who do I need to tell? Call the town of Carrie. Well, it's the it's the meeting. It's like, okay, well, I'm going to show up and I'm going to voice my opinion for that area. It's very hazardous. Um, tires cost a lot of money. just recently bought a set of tires over $1,000. Riding over a piece of metal where there is not safe, not good for your car. Um I was told, "Oh, downtown Kerry has a lot of it in the road." I don't care. I will avoid it, but you put it right where I live and I

don't have a choice but to go over it. That's a problem. I do not expect to live in the town of Kerry and have to be subjected to possible damage to my vehicle, damage to myself, anyone because of the hazard that has been put on Old Apex Road in that area. There is not sufficient people out there for traffic time during the school time. It is not a safe situation. Who in the town of Kerry cares about that area and wants to make it safe?

I have to interrupt you at this time. If you've left your contact information, the town manager will have somebody contact you and answer all of your questions.

Thank you.

You're welcome. Anyone else for public speaks out? Anyone at all? Seeing no one, I'll close public speaks out and we'll move to the consent agenda. Please keep in mind that for people watching our meeting on TV, I'll take a moment to review all the consent agenda items. One vote approves all of these items. We have two items on the consent agenda. One, resolution removing public hearing 25 AO2 from the agenda and two 25A 08 which is 20 20 2020 222 Jones Franklin Road to call the public hearing. Council members like either of these items pull for discussion. If not, I would entertain a motion to approve.

So moved.

There's a motion. Second

and a second. Discussion.

All in favor, please say I.

I. I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. We have no public hearings. We will now move to discussion items. The first discussion item is the renaming of the property at Ernest Jones Road to Bryson Nature Preserve. At the quarterly, council members took action to make this recognition. And tonight was the official adoption the re tonight is the official adoption of the resolution that was attached to the agenda in front of us. Is there a motion? I am struggling

to talk tonight. Goodness gracious. I'd like to make that.

Jack Smith would like to make that motion. Is there a second?

Second.

And a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

Any oppose? We now have the Bryson Nature Preserve Park named after our council member Bryson, Jennifer Bryson Robinson. Congratulations.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Okay. The second uh item under discussion is a council initiated item and I actually initiated this item. It's to televise our remote meetings. I requested this item be added to the agenda and it was seconded by Mayor Proen Jennifer Bryson Robinson. Um, the way we use the way we do these items is we have the council member proposing something speak first, the council member seconding speak next, and then we open it up to the council and we may or may not make a decision. Um, I agree with Miss Moore who spoke earlier tonight. Actually, my first talk in a public meeting was in 1997 where I requested the exact same thing that council meetings need to be open to the public. So this is nothing new for me. It's like deja vu. I totally agree. Uh one thing of course is the cost and the complexities of such an item. Uh I know from research that you can stream a meeting uh off your phone and our speaker said she actually saw that streaming off a phone and was able to get the information she need. But I would like to call up a staff member and hear what the ISAB said about that. I see Miss Moran coming forward and she can tell us what the ISAB came up with. Good evening, council. It was actually town manager Seansteagle

that asked me several weeks ago to look into streaming of your remote meetings because it's the marketing team that I have the pleasure of working with that takes care of your council meetings and uh Mayor Weinre, I was here in 1997 when all that happened and you all actually tasked me with making this happen in four months. So, I feel very well acquainted with it. Essentially, you have a couple of options. If you want to live stream your remote meetings, and to be clear, what I'm talking about are the work sessions that currently you have in Herbion Community Center, or your district meetings that you have in different locations around town as a a few examples, or your quarterly meetings, which you have in hotels generally. Um, you have basically two options to do it. There are a million options, but I'm going to boil it down to two. One is the fastest and least expensive option, and that is to put a couple of web cameras on the equipment that already exists in all of those meetings for you, including the audio. We'll need to bring another staff member in there to make sure that the folks who are who are watching this can hear it. Um, and let me be clear. I'm not talking about creating a WebEx for interactive conversations. This is not interactive. It is simply to through whatever WebEx or Zoom we decide is the best for you at that time. Um, sending it out so people can see it live and then archiving it in all the places that we archive it so people can go back and look at it. That's probably going to run four or 500 uh a meeting. Let's say 2400 uh 24 meetings, you're looking at 10 or 11,000 that is not currently budgeted. Make sense so far?

Yes.

Okay. And I'll talk about the ISAB in a second. I'm going to ask Council Member Bush to help me with that. Uh the second option would be to make it look and feel

more like this. Um that would be where we bring in actual real cameras like these. two cameras, maybe some lights, and a crew. Um, and that's going to run you about $8,000 a meeting, which if you do the math is close to a couple hundred thousand, I think. So, uh, we can do either one of those. And if you want to start with your December 9th work session, assuming you have that, we can do that as well. Um the information services advisory board uh which mayor you were the first chair of when you were a citizen not yet a council member uh looked at this and council member Bush did a great job of asking them questions. So if it's okay with you um the board did not take a vote. There was no official recommendation. There was lots of conversation and there were ideas thrown out. But if it's okay with you, I'd like to ask Council Member Bush just to share her recollection. She put it in an email recently and it and it appeared to be exactly the same meeting I was in. If that'd be okay.

Sure. Absolutely.

I hope so. Um, so yes. So what we talked about were the four different types of meetings that we have. Obviously the formal council meetings that we have here that are in this room. We talked about C quarterly meetings that are sometimes off-site. We talked about retreats. We talked about work sessions. And then we also consider district meetings which are also off-site but not in areas necessarily that have the capabilities that we that we're used to. Um what was presented is exactly uh what Susan said, excellent job. Two other obvious options are to do nothing. That's always a policy decision. And the other obvious option is to keep doing what we're doing, which is making the audio available, not the full video and audio. So there were those were the four options. Um the feedback uh from them

was that they felt and and I did um create minutes of the meeting and send it back out for rec for individual feedback from them and they all confirmed that that's what they thought they heard as well is that um all formal meetings that are not already televised. So not the planning and zoning board, not the ZBOA um which are obvious obviously already covered and certainly this would not have um talk we wouldn't talk about the council meetings but all other meetings in which council is involved either with as a liaison or as um such as work sessions should be we should find some way to do that. Um, and we should do it to the highest quality we can understanding the costs associated with it. And the recognition of that was to have WebEx meetings available for people to stream. WebEx, Zoom, whatever the the right terminology is, that they could sign up ahead of time if they wanted to, or they could immediately stream it on demand, that they would be able to get access to it after a meeting, so it would be posted somewhere. Um, and it with the understanding that there may be additional resources required. Staff did a great job. Susan did a great job. Not staff. Susan did a great job talking about the resources that are required are potentially some webcams, an extra person in the room to start, stop and manage, people coming in, admitting them into the room, you know, monitoring. We we wouldn't have a chat. So, we got into the deep details of what does this look like? Um, and it also may require some additional cable cables, cameras, etc. There's also a consideration of how we archive it, which staff would have to do a little bit of background data because we want to um keep in line with our

public records responsibility as well as an ease of use for people to watch this afterwards. Um so the recommendation was to um do the WebEx meetings as much as possible um with the cameras available and also should there be a need and Susan did a great job of pointing this out. Should there be a need for a more fuller production for something like a district meeting like the meetings we had here that that be an option as well for those types of meetings as as deemed fit. So that was the the recommendation from the ISAD.

Um Mayor, if I may just for very quickly say um when I told you the $400 a meeting, u it is um council member Bush, I really appreciate her bringing up that the ISAB did talk about um doing this for boards and commissions. I don't have when I talk about $400 a meeting, I don't have that when I and I said a total of $10,000. That does not include boards and commissions. I'm not saying we can't do it, but you that we can we can do that and we can get you the number and we'll send through a budget adjustment and whatever you want to do. Um, I just want to make sure I was clear on that. If you um if you decide that you want to go ahead and get started with your work sessions, we have enough money in the marketing budget right now to be able to um accommodate at least for a few months without a budget adjustment whatever it is that you think that you want to do. Uh the other thing is um we have done some testing and uh if we were to for example use WebEx and we were to have a the work session on December the 9th as you have had previous work sessions in the Herbian Community Center, we would be able to send that through Kerry TV through the cable channel that it currently um all these meetings occur on

as well as put it on YouTube and assuming Granicus is behaving paving, we would would be able to put it where the minutes portal and all that is. So, our goal would be to make it be as much like this for access as as we could and we feel pretty good that that would would happen, but we haven't done it before. So, I know that you would give us a little grace and trying it out. One last um item I forgot to looking at the list of recommendations I sent out was that um they requested a staff to work to measure the meeting access to get feedback uh community feedback and to revisit it after a year

after with a full evaluation and recommendations for any additional improvements and to see and to actually tap into our stakeholders and find out. So, how did this meet your expectations and do we need to um tweak it?

And with that recommendation, if the council were to say that you wanted to do that in addition to just putting the stuff out there, uh we would work closely with the ISAB and maybe even involve them in helping staff do that evaluation.

So, so I I appreciate what both of you said. I I think I'm in agreement with what both of you said. I feel a sense of urgency to start televising all work sessions, all decisionbinding meetings, video uh so that would exclude boards right now, but I I don't want to exclude them forever, but I I do feel a sense of urgency of getting started. I like the $400 option. I like revisiting it to see how that does, if that doesn't work or not work. Um so when the time is right, I'll make that motion. But first, I need to turn that over to Miss Robin, Bryson Robinson for her comments.

Okay. Well, very much in agreement. I remember back in 1997 because I was one of the fortunate recipients to get to start watching them on TV and seeing seeing recorded meetings. Um, so I mean,

I like this idea. I really appreciate Felicia Moore bringing it to us and taking the time to circulate a petition to, you know, help articulate that there are a lot of citizens who are interested in this. So, I mean, I think it's a great idea. I I had not thought about boards and commissions. Um and I'm not 100% sure that there would be a lot of people watching those.

You could you could measure it, but I would I agree. I think doing the um work sessions, quarterlys, and the retreat would be very good. And I would I would go with the $400 option. I I don't think that we need to go with the most expensive.

And we can always revisit it like we suggest.

We will revisit it

and the district meetings.

Yeah. I mean, if you if you do this and you're paying $400 a meeting and you have two people watching it consistently, then, you know, you won't be going to the $8,000 option. But if it's, you know, many hundreds of people that are tuning tuning in, then you might think otherwise. So,

Sure.

Yeah. But I I think it's a good idea to get started on recording all of these meetings. But I would say I don't know if we need to jump into boards and commissions, but

Well, we did have this came up and and it does mention on the um change.org or petition that they're interested in access as they are to anything that we where we are making decisions or recommendations. So for instance, the planning and zoning board part of the email that I received was there's no difference to their mind between a planning and zoning board and you know the ISAB or the HID. It access is access [music] to what our citizens are recommending is access. um what I would normally do or what we would normally do and I appreciate Susan jumping up so quickly and my request to her to come to ISUB was with less than a a few days um notice is that we could actually figure it out. We could uh do a pilot as as you mentioned or December 9th, but we could get a formal staff report that would

actually give us the data we need to make an evidence-based decision on so what really is this cost once they try it out, do a trial, so that we know that when we're making a decision for a year-long decision of what that looks like while we try it. we're often, you know, putting together things as we move forward and that would be another way to implement this while we're moving forward.

Um, council, if you just in talking with the clerk, I think you have about 10 10 boards and commissions. I was an English major, so let's use 10 helps me. Let's say you have 10 boards of and commissions and let's say they meet every month. So, you're going to need $4,000 a month if you decide to do the WebEx option just based on our current um proposal. It'll be less than that because, you know, you don't meet every month, but you're going to be looking at maybe closer to $50,000 if you want to do boards and commissions just based on the information we have tonight. That's not to say we shouldn't do a staff report or anything like that. Just as you're deliberating, um I I appreciate Jenny doing math.

Susan, I have a question for you. I mean, Most of us jump on to teams calls, WebEx calls on a daily basis. Why can we not for boards and commissions, which most of them, not P&Z, but most of them meet in a conference room? Couldn't we ask everybody to bring a laptop with them when they come to their meeting and everybody tunes in so that those watching can just see the people around the table just like you would in your office, I mean, typical meeting. And then publish that link for the she's call. I mean, just to make it affordable. Well, well, I I I um I would have to ask Lisa first to see if there's a legal issue there and ask um Nicole if there's a tech issue, but I think getting two cameras and just showing the room will be less expensive than providing laptops to every board and commission member.

Oh, no, no, no. I mean, they I mean, most people have a laptop. Yeah, I'm sorry. I thought most people had a laptop, so I

No. Oh, I mean I I don't think I don't

think that we would tell someone they can't participate in a board of commission because they wouldn't bring their laptop and it's their personal laptop and then how do we archive those records and

and what if their laptop has like ours do when we work for the private sector and doesn't allow you to do that sort of thing.

Yeah. Yeah. So what you know we would just set it up the way we we set

I have a question. I'm sorry I'm I'm a little lost here. Um so for PRCR meeting we already have in WebEx, right? Like there are people who join through WebEx and those in the room they they're also on the WebEx. So people on on WebEx can see everybody and they can participate in the conversation.

So what are we discussing then? Like this is what we're doing.

I know that you already had that. That's interesting.

Yeah. So all of the boards and commissions already are on WebEx because they capture the audio in order for the transcription and the minutes, right? So that was the first [snorts] choice, right? And so we could make that audio available and in fact many we get lots of public records requests for that audio. So we could that is like the lowest level streaming, right? There's nothing and then there's providing the audio from the WebEx of a meeting that's passed that's not allowing them to come in but that's providing the audio.

So what we are saying is

then the next one is WebEx live participating in it live. So what we are saying is that for meetings who that have like PRCR board we have a WebEx. So we are saying that we'll just start recording this and providing the information to those asking for it.

So that's the op that is one of the options and that's what we do today.

Do you have do you just have audio for your WebEx for PRCR or do you

Yeah, sometimes I do join through WebEx.

But I mean is it video or is it just audio?

Video as well. Video.

Yeah, all of them do. So um so I know that for senior board I joined the meeting once and for EAB they have webex and people do join those meetings through webex

they're all hybrid just like any other

meeting. So even if the folks on the board can't attend in person they can

Okay. So, let me say um I we don't have council members offering an expectation that every time folks in the room or folks online would be able to see it and hear it.

We do not have a staff member assigned to making sure that happens. You will be disappointed if someone is not assigned to do that. That is a cost we are estimating at $400. That's our estimate. We can try to do it for less, but if you want assurance, then you're going to have to have someone assigned to do it. And we all know that you can't do more with less and you can't do the same with less.

So,

or the same with the same.

So, Susan, what you were saying is I just want to be clear. Yes. You're discussing.

So, there is a WebEx. The meeting is going on.

Yes. So, we're talking about boards and commissions, right? Boards and commiss. Okay. Right. And that what you're saying is that that service is available today.

Yes, I I've checked with the clerk. Correct. That service is available today.

Um so what you're saying is or your one of the proposal is that we will record that and we will have a public record.

We will stream it live out to the world and record it and have the public record and someone will monitor to make sure all that is happening in real time. So that addition of service is what we're discussing right now.

That's correct.

Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome.

My brain was like,

"No, you're doing great because we I wasn't here. Council member Bush rightly so brought up boards and commissions because ISAB did. That is not what I that is not was not the original charge. So we're all catching up uh with each other. You're you're doing great."

Other questions?

I have a question and a couple of um concerns. I wanted to know in that those those estimates that you shared with us Susan.

Yes.

Um does that include additional headcount that does that cost factor and a potential additional FTE or some kind of headcount for the AV IT team and whoever would manage the infrastructure?

I do not believe that we would um require additional headcount for that. However, it because it's a council item, it would be prioritized other over other items and we would need to look at capacities on that, but no one that I've spoken with has talked about an additional FTE. It may make other things not happen as quickly for boards and commissions. on the other on the other end for you for your things, work sessions, district meetings, retreat, um we it would be a contractor that was added to the contract team that's already there for you

and that cost is factored into the estimate.

That's the $400.

Thank you. Um, also one thing I think would be really important and I've had this experience especially with um trying to run large uh meetings you know with the state we keep having this this challenge with closed captioning

and with um you know people that are hearing impaired not being able to access the information. So, I know that's probably a comp, you know, something to accommodate and it may or may not be fairly straightforward typically to do. I don't know what technology um that that lower estimate includes, but I think that minimal accessibility um issue needs to be addressed from Go, not later on in the pilot because it just I think it would be inappropriate not to do it from go. But I made the assumption

that that is included because I I don't think you would have left that out. Nope. I did leave it out because we don't do that.

Okay.

Your meetings here are not close captioned.

They But they're on platforms where they are closed caption.

Yes. Which is I want to make sure that we're very clear about that. Okay.

Yes. There's there um as you all know, I

am visually impaired. What you may not know is I have a a nephew who is deaf.

Our family joke is that together we're Helen Keller. And what happens is we can't communicate with each other. I can't see him sign and he can't hear me. It's uh so I I understand it personally.

Um captioning is very expensive to do it in the captioning way where someone is typing out the things. Yes, an electronic and or AI generated I think is is and we use that. I'm specifically talking about if we choose to use Zoom or WebEx course and rely on the that function in Zoom and Webex, it is very difficult and not terribly reliable.

Yes, I agree with that. I agree with that. And the estimate that I'm giving you would use existing technologies that we already have. We would have to come back to you to say how we would upgrade from an ADA standpoint.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Sure.

One just um on that one of the things that came up during the ICB and I want to um bring it up here because they it was a charge back to us to look into it is that the Wake school board meetings, the Wake um county commissioner meetings, all of those including [snorts] their side meetings are all streamed today. And several of the people who attend all of those said, "You should really reach out to them because they've been doing it a lot longer and they're going to give you all the, you know, all the things you have to worry about." It's going from 10 people to 20 to 50 and managing entry and exit. And if somebody, you know,

well, [clears throat] let me be very clear. We are not suggesting participatory Zoom meetings. The way our technology will work is we will use a WebEx or Zoom or whatever it is to as our vehicle to get it out onto the streaming platforms. There won't be this coming in and coming out. People will not actually be participating.

Correct.

In a meeting,

but you have to let the 10 people on who

are supposed to be on.

Oh, yes. Yes. That's what I mean.

Which is what the clerk is doing.

Which is what the clerk's That's what I mean. It's it's people who will have a different link. Yes.

So, and managing it and getting it on the website, right? There's a lot of process involved that we wanted to give

that the ISAB wanted to give staff time to think through the list of questions that they had before you implement before you go full steam ahead and try some things out and check in with other organizations that are doing it. So, just giving you that.

No, and and that and I will say that um that it's great advice. Um, a few weeks ago when um, Sean asked us to look into it, I actually reached out to members of our team, we already started holding meetings and there has been testing going on of all of this, which is why I'm able to answer questions for you tonight. When the mayor and I talked about this at the quarterly, he asked how the ISAB went and I told him and um, I would not be able to have a conversation with you tonight had we not already started testing and looking. So that when I heard those comments from the ISAB, um I I it made me very happy. As you know, Council Member Bush, I was the staff liazison to the ISAB for 20 years. Um and I just love that they are still who they have always been.

Yeah,

we've done some testing. It doesn't mean we'll have it perfect. We're glad to wait until January. We're glad to wait till 2029 if that's what you want. But if you tell us that you want it on December the 9th, you will have something on December the 9th that pleases you and probably will need to be innovated over time.

Yeah. And and I just wanted to share one other just quick concern when it comes to filming, recording, whatever we want to call it, the advisory boards. I that gives me a little bit of pause when it comes to privacy considerations. How those individuals might feel about being recorded and put on the internet indefinitely. I'm not sure. Um I think

that would need a very significant amount of feedback from more than just one board. Now as you know I met both you Susan and you Lori as a member of the ISAB myself right

when we never when we didn't do that and and none of the boards has been told you may be out there forever because they haven't had to deal with that yet. So it's it's a valid point

but I trust the feedback from that board. I know it's a very thoughtfully

constructed group of folks that have a wide range of opinions and and so I do trust that group. But when it comes to the personal, would you mind being recorded and put on the internet? I think that would need to be something that we we look at later. Um, not right now.

That's why they suggested by the way the audio option

perhaps though the quasi judicial boards that's some place where you know

when you you may also decide that that needs to be part of your annual recruitment in the spring, assuming you continue to recruit in the spring.

Yeah.

That that's a thing. If you're going to apply, know that this is a thing. There's a lot to talk about with it when you get to boards and commissions. For sure.

Do we currently have call in and listen options for all of the boards and commissions?

I have to ask the clerk to

I remember I remember before I was on council calling in to a I think it was HID. For most of the boards, we do have call-in listing options. There are some boards that are in person only. Um there is also the boards that um like PNZ it there's no call-in option there because it's streamed right

um so they can watch it that way and then Zboa um does not have a call-in option

because it's in this room

but you would need just to be clear you would need to request that access before the meeting it's not there's not a link for you to go to the EAB

I think I remember what the

you have to ask

years ago it was like there like a access code that I found online or something. I thought

there um with in our calendar, we do give a number you can call in.

Okay.

So, you don't um you don't have to ask to call in. It's already on the calendar.

Yeah.

Anybody and on the agenda.

I didn't know that.

Susan, um quick question about this um

the comment that mayor made about the meetings where the decisions are made. like technically where probably more than four council members are present, right? These are four. Four or more. Yes.

Four or more.

So, how many like um meetings are uh do we have in a year?

We're estimating 24 work sessions and district meetings and the retreat all together.

But we don't um make decisions in district meetings, right?

We do.

Yeah. Uh you don't No, you you're you're correct. You don't. So 24 minus 4 is 20 [laughter] I think. So it's the English major. If you want to ask me about adverbs or transitory sentences, I'd do great with that today. [laughter]

Okay. So um like can we roll this in phases maybe? Like

I'm I'm not interested in that. If a council is together, I want everybody to see it.

Okay.

Everything that's said that's where I'm going.

And boards and commissions. If somebody wants to make a motion on that, that's fine. But I'm interested in council only right now.

And I think it's imperative that we do that as soon as possible.

Okay.

So

other questions?

I would make that in form of

but what are we deciding on just to

I'm deciding that I would like to make a motion to videotape all council when they're together. Videotaping that at the 400 estimated option.

Sorry. Videotape and stream. stream

and and

and post

and post.

Yes.

So, we're talking about just for clarification, work sessions, quarterlys, the retreat and district meetings.

And any specially called meetings if they're public meetings.

And would you like to second it or

I will second that.

Open it up for discussion.

Okay. Call a vote. All in favor, please say I. I.

Those opposed.

Motion's unanimous. any further direction.

Do you want to make the direct give

direction that it will be re-evaluated?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

We understand

exactly that.

We'll we'll see you in Nove I'll see you in November.

Okay. And and I definitely want the information that Lauri and Carissa and others have made about the boards and commission. Very interested in that. Sure.

Want to know cost and thoughts and problems and and how we would check with the board members and if they're okay with that, not okay with that. A very good point.

I would like to make a So, I'd also like to make a follow-up motion that staff put together a report on what the opportunity um cost would be associated pros and cons and associated options with having citizens be able to stream our boards and commissions meeting and to take that everything that you do around a staff report. So, making sure that you consider all of the concerns that of course have brought up as well.

And council member Bush, would you be willing to include in your motion that the ISAB helps us with that lift?

Certainly.

And that all the other boards are are cons are asked the way we do so often. Ask them for feedback.

Yeah. Great. I think it'll be a great activity for the board and a great way for the ISAB to get to know all the other boards too and we would appreciate the help.

That'd be great. Is that a motion? Can I second that? Okay, I second.

Motion and a second. Discussion.

All in favor, please say I. I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Anything you need from us? Are we clear in our direction or

I'm Crystal?

Okay. And any other questions? Okay. Thank you.

Thank you.

So, we are now ready to go into close session, but before we do, [sighs] I hate saying these words. These this is our last meeting with uh Jennifer and Jack. We've held receptions the last two evenings for these great individuals. Jennifer is 26 years. Jack's 36 years. And I would like that if they would close our meeting with their thoughts and comments. M. Robinson. Jennifer

Bryson Robinson. Would you like to go first?

You let Jack go first.

I think he wants to go last.

Oh, he does. Okay. Well, I didn't actually put together any comments because I already spoke at the reception. I think Are you there?

Okay. Well, you missed it, but anyway. Um because I've already made some remarks, but um I do want to say um for Chris's notifications if she missed it. I think somebody videoed it. You can watch it later. [laughter]

I I just want to say uh thank you to everybody. Thank you to my fellow council members. Um and thank you to our fantastic staff. Um, this has been a real honor to be able to serve the town of Kerry and to be able to have a hand in shaping, you know, how car K Carrie grow grew and what it has become. Um, you all know me very well. You know, what um I think is very important for Carrie. Um I think it's really really important that we um remember and respect what everybody who has come before us built carry on and um their attention to details and standards and um making this a place that's easy for people to live, a place that's welcoming. So I hope that future councils will continue to prioritize that as they move forward. Um, I will encourage all of you to be very careful as you do uh land use decisions and um really all decisions if you can work hard to look around corners and try to anticipate what the ramifications [clears throat] are of the decisions that you make. Um it's a very difficult task and as I said at um my meeting running a town is a lot like making a cake without a recipe. I mean you don't know you you're you're speculating. you're trying to figure out what the best steps are and um and I appreciate everybody who has patiently sat through our council decisions and we've had so many citizens that have been very hospitable in the way that they have uh

shared their displeasure with us and and um and we've had some that haven't but so many uh Kerry citizens have been really um helpful to us. I would say as you go forward and you look at any kind of resoning things and I'm thinking now about the the most recent one that's coming up, you know, consider the citizens that are affected as your agents. They know what it's like to live in that area better than we ever do. And it's always really helpful to have the input from citizens. And um I remember we there was a council member once and he was like he he referred to citizens as people you have to deal with. And um I'm glad that nobody here at this council table regards citizens in that way. We have the utmost respect for count for our citizens. So I think that's really positive. Um you know anyway that I I think that's my remarks. I I wish I had put more remarks together for you but you heard me earlier and um I I just want to say thank you to all of you for um sharing this journey with me.

Thank you

Jack. We've heard you for all those years. [laughter] Nice thing about following Jennifer is I can lead with I agree with everything she said. So, um especially the thank yous. Uh I want to just leave a thought. Um talk about a military tradition called the presentation of the colors. Um when uh if you've been to one of our recent Veterans Day event or if you've been to almost any sporting event, almost any event uh across the country, uh a lot of times you will see the ceremony starting that event of the presentation of the colors. Uh that goes to our history. uh each of those colors um come with generations and generations of history behind it and the color

itself. So in fact if you look behind us or over behind the the audience we have the colors of each of the branches up there. But through history the colors were involved in um were very involved in combat uh when our military was called to the forefront. And over the years those colors started to represent a lot of things mostly uh around uh courage, loyalty and you started getting into unit pride and honor. But in up until the civil war the colors played a key role in battle because u you didn't know who's was on what side. So what happened is as units went into combat, they had their colors. Um in in um Civil War, you saw the battle flag of the South, you saw the North with their their uh uh their eagle and and their colors. Uh, and my point of that is, um, the colors became so critical because in combat with smoke and chaos, um, the units always looked to those colors. And so before you went into combat, a lot of times your leaders would say, um, here are our colors. If they begin to fall, who will take it? Because if the colors fell, typically the unit fell. And so over time, the whole thing of colors became the tradition and the honor of of pride. And again, as I said before, the courage to keep on going. Now, in a way, I'd like to lead the thought

that maybe here on the council, we don't sit here with a little flag in our hand or our colors in our hand, but we carry the colors in a very symbolic way. We carry them because we know what the Carryway is. We all know that we want Carrie to be the best. And we know as a group here that we want to make sure that uh we do that for our citizens and that gets challenged every time we have election. We have new people that have to kind of learn that and what they're what they're coming to the table in is they're coming in with trying to understand the carry weight. They were excited enough to run. They ran and now what we're looking at is what what are the colors of the Terry Town Council and I would argue they're very simple. They're they're basically teamwork and seeking the best for our citizens that they that we value our citizens. So, you know, the old saying, it's amazing what you can accomplish if you if you do not care who gets the credit. This council and councils before us have come here and we've always put Kerry first. We've always made sure that it's not self-s serving. It's not for our uh selfrandisement. It's not for those things. It we've become the team that keeps Kerry moving forward. So in the symbolic way what I'm like what I am hoping for is that um and I'm convinced it will happen is that that continues that the caring and the excellence of our community is our banner is the banner of this town council and just like the the the military uh and their values if it begins the fall I am absolutely confident that the seven

people up here. The new council will not let that happen. They will rise to the occasion. And that's the feeling I walk away feeling good about. I I don't want to repeat myself. Jennifer had said it well. Thank you all. Thank you to the staff. Thank you to the citizens out there. I have been I have learned so much from each of you. all of you out there that I've interacted with and to our staff and our employees. All I can tell you is I've learned so much and you have helped me grow and I know it's helped me to to do the best I can I could for you. I can tell you that to serve you has been the blessing of my lifetime. It's been an honor and a privilege and a Godspeed and God bless and thank you for that opportunity.

Thank you. [clears throat] Okay, let's go into close session. [laughter]

It's hard to go at the close session now. Um, would someone like to read a motion to go into close session?

Sure. Pursuant to GS1 14331811A13 and 6. I move that we hold a close session to consult with attorneys employed by and or retained by the town in order to preserve the attorney client privilege between the town and the attorneys and to prevent the disclosure of information that's made privileged or confidential pursuant to the laws of the state including 143 31810E or not considered a public record within the meaning of chapter 132 of the general statutes and to consider the qualifications competence performance character fitness witness conditions of appointment or conditions of initial employment of one or more individual public officers or employees.

There's a motion. Is there a second?

Second.

Second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. We go into close session. 1035. 1035. Right here.

[music]

Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Baby,

Yeah, Johnny. Chicken.

How? Heat. Heat.

Down. Oh god. down. Hey Heat.

Wow. Wow. Waff wow. Happy. Wow. Daddy, daddy.

D. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey.

[music]

All [music]

right.

Hey. Hey. Hello.

Heat. Heat.

Hey, doo. Baby, [music] hey.

gold. Gold. Birthday. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Do you feel Okay.

Wow. Wow. Wow. down. Down.

[music]

3.

Green. Hello. All right.

Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat.

Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Hey, Heat.

[music]

Hey,

What's up?

Hello. Nat. Let's go. Heat. Heat.

Do you? Okay.

Hey, hey, hey. couple.

[music]

Hey,

Heat. Heat. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Yeah, you down.

Hey.

[music] [music]

Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat. Hey. Hey.

Hey, Daddy hey. [music]

Oh no. Come on. Golden hey honey.

All right. Hey Ah, heat. Heat. Heat.

I don't know.

[music]

Yeah, hey.

doo doo doo doo. Wow. Wow. Wow. Up down up.

[music]

Hey, hey,