Regular Meeting

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Heat. Heat.

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Heat.

call to order the June 11th meeting of the Kerry Town Council. And at this time, I'll recognize Council Member Bella Huang for our ceremonial opening.

Um, we just had a very, very intense work session [laughter] 10 minutes ago, but now I don't have too much to say, but go Canes tonight. [laughter] Please join me.

The pledge of allegiance. Well done. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Miss Wong. Go Canes.

[laughter] Uh we have a request to change our agenda tonight. We will be adding a pride month pride proclamation under recognitions, reports, and presentations. So I would entertain a motion to adopt the amended agenda.

So moved.

Second.

There's a motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I. The opposed. Motion carries unanimously, which takes us to what we just added, the pride proclamation. And I'll invite our mayor pro Tim Lori Bush and human resources human relations inclusive and diversity advisory board chair Jess McDonald to the podium for the presentation.

Hello.

Hi.

Happy pride.

All right. So designating June 202 2026 as LGBTQIA+ pride month in Kerry whereas the month of June is widely recognized as LGBTQ plus pride month a time dedicated to acknowledging celebrating and reflecting on the significant impact and contributions of our LGBTQ plus community worldwide. And whereas Kerry is dedicated to fostering a diverse, equitable, inclusive, safe, and welcoming workplace and a community where everyone feels valued, supported, and empowered to be their true selves. Our diversity strengthens us and adds to the vibrant tapestry that makes Kerry a wonderful place to live, work, play, and raise a family. And whereas over the years, Kerry has shown a commitment by creating the human relations, inclusion, and diversity advisory board and has furthered its commitment to providing inclusive services to our community with our participation in the human rights

campaign municipal equality index. Car's human relations, inclusion, and diversity advisory board also focuses on improving the quality of life in our community through encouragement of mutual understanding and respect amongst all people in Kerry, whether they're living, working, or visiting our town. And whereas our community will celebrate Pride Month in Kerry with Pride in the Park, the pride lighting of the Kerry Art Center, which by the way, if you haven't seen it, it's absolutely beautiful. a a pride mural which is on the side of the brew building and pride themed art cart, art exhibi exhibitions and a book cart and a popup chorus Broadway and theater reading at the Kerry Theater which will also include readings from the LGBTQ plus playwrights. And so therefore, I, Mayor Prom Lori Bush, on behalf of the mayor and the entire Kerry Town Council, do hereby proclaim the month of June 2026 as Pride Month in Kerry in celebration of the diversity, unity, and freedom and acceptance and also reaffirming our support, building on progress towards a better, more inclusive, and more welcoming and safe Carrie for all.

[applause]

Thank you, Mayor Council Member Bush, and the entire council for having me back here tonight to accept this pride declaration on behalf of our community and my wonderful colleagues on the HRID advisory board. It's moments like this that make me very proud to be from Kerry. While Pride has always been and will continue to be a month of joyful celebration, my return this year feels a little bit more somber than last, a little bit more closer to the origins of the gay liberation movement. It was a movement started and led by those on the margins, fearless trans women of color

like Marcia P. Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, shouting a desperate but empowered cry to be treated with the human dignity and respect that we all deserve. Just last week, Gallup released polling data indicating American support for marriage equality peaked in 2023 and has been declining since. In all of 2024, the ACLU tracked over 500 LGBTQ bills across the country. Halfway through 2026, there are they are already tracking 530. While Carrie and the state of North Carolina have made Pride proclamations, whoop, five US states have declared June some sort of faith or family month, erroneously believing in a false dichotomy in which we could not celebrate and honor both. It's more important now than ever for municipalities across the country to stand up for each other. To acknowledge that LGBTQ history is American history, that LGBTQ rights are American rights. That LGBTQ stories are American stories and books. And that oppression anywhere means less freedom everywhere. Here in Kerry, we are neighbors. We are a community. We celebrate our differences. And we respect the right to live peacefully the way that we choose. Thank you earnestly for leading in this spirit and making this official declaration. May we more than ever make this a walking declaration of our intentional daily choice to be an inclusive community. May we never take our rights for granted and always stand firmly rooted in our values and in standing up for each other. May we honor the founders of the movement and refuse to let their progress be eroded. Happy Pride. Thank you. Okay, moving on. We will now recognize the town manager for his update. Uh, thank you, mayor. I wanted to thank the council for another good discussion of the proposed uh fiscal year 2027 budget earlier tonight at the work session. Uh,

we talked about tax rate, fund balance, cuts, and new revenues. Um, as well as the concept of smoothing, affordability, values, and expectations. So, thank you again for the for your work on the budget this year. Um, that's a great leadup to tonight's uh second public hearing. And as a reminder for anyone who missed it, the work session was recorded and is available on the town's YouTube channel. Uh, state law or again, state law requires us to have an adopted budget by June 30th. And right now, while you're continuing your work, folks are gathering, I'm told, at the downtown park for the Stanley Cup watch party. uh goanes as you said um and thanks to parks, police, public works, and so many others who've worked hard to make this party possible. Unlike the meeting and work session, the watch party isn't available on our YouTube channel. But I would like to believe just as many people are watching this as we'll be watching the Canes, [laughter] right? Um and with that, I'll turn it back over to you, Mayor.

Thank you, Russ. We now move to public speaks out. We've included instructions for [clears throat] speaking at this forum online and on the printed agenda. There were three options to participate in public speaks out through written comments, by calling in or by attending here in person tonight. If you are here in person and would like to speak, I would ask that you take a seat in the rows to my right that are now highlighted. Public speaks out speakers have three minutes each for their comments and may speak on any town related topic as long as it is not a public hearing. And that's to your advantage. You get more time at a public hearing. The threeminut time limit will be enforced. Not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers. We have a timer on the podium. It'll start off with a green light. When it turns yellow, that means you have 30 seconds remaining to conclude your comments. When it flashes red, your time is expired. And that's the point I will interrupt you. Again, not trying to be rude, but trying to be fair to all of

our speakers. I would ask that all speakers please be respectful in their comments and direct those comments to the entire council and not to an individual. I thank everyone in the audience for understanding that this is a business meeting. Please do not applaud, make remarks from your seats, use props, or do anything else that may distract from the meeting. So now is the time for public speaks out. And I'll first call on the clerk to read any written comments and call on any registered speakers.

No written comments. And we had four registered speakers. The first one being Pamela Pikney. Do I need to do anything?

You You just start talking and we'll go. Thank you.

Good evening everyone again. When I was here in April on the 16th, I was talking to you about affordable housing and I hope that you have considered it. I'm here this evening. Uh I'm Pamela Pinkney and I am a presidential candidate for the United States of America for 2028. And when I spoke to you on April 16th, I had told you that it is time for a new trajectory to take this nation and our cities and states in another direction. I have uh been initiated to establish and uh f be the founder and visionary of a victim of violence fund. It is entitled truth speaks. Victims of violence do not have adequate funding for

attorneys. The prosecutor represents the law which is in many ways flawed because victims of violence we ended up with Marcy being dead only for a law to be in place upon her death. The person or the situation that causes the violence has a right to an attorney. A public defender gets the money is paid by uh is paid by the state or whatever government entity to represent whoever causes the violence. Victims of violence not only do not have adequate funding for attorneys, but victims of violence have to choose between being in the violent setting or being homeless. And they receive labels. I would like for this legislative body to support me in this in this endeavor because it takes a lot for a victim of violence to speak out. I don't know statistically what your numbers are in Kerry or in the state of North Carolina, but I do know that Interact, the police departments, the fire departments, and many others will be glad to give you those statistics because it's time for peace. It's time to stop all of this violence in the name of law and religion. It's time to stop this violence. I uh I am currently I have a protection order for myself and I need this to be addressed and I need funding for those of us who do choose to speak up and speak out. We don't need to be afraid to come to you and we would like to have the religious and the political community help us financially and in other ways because we need funding and fair and equal opportunities. Thank you very much. And my cont confir uh my information to communicate with me you have I just sent it to you and I thank you for being so pre uh pleasant. I was

looking for Mr. Webster. his mom told me to ask for when I got here. Robert Webster, I don't know if he's here.

Thank you. [laughter]

He works for the city.

He's there.

Our next um inerson speaker is Mary Insburger. [laughter] Hi, I'm Mary Inser. Good evening, council, mayor, and everybody here today. I love living in Carrie, and I appreciate all leadership has done to better it. I really do. But when seniors and others are coming to me saying they may lose their homes to taxes or their tax payment is getting almost as large as their mortgage payment, I felt I had to speak. In fact, these constant tax increases, not only in Kerry, but just about everywhere, you know, is one of the reasons I decided to run for NC House. People are struggling to put food on the table and gas in the tank. There's only so much we can take and and I and I include myself in that because although a candidate first I'm a citizen and it just needs to stop. And I know you worked hard to to try and accomplish that. But part of my plea today is you work a little harder or look a little deeper. to people. Uh just a reminder, there's going to be a constitutional amendment on the November ballot where you, the people, get to decide if you want tax increases or you don't. And I love that because it's a by for the people. You get to pick, right? But

a side note, do not believe in, you know, I don't believe in fair as a motivator. So I ask folks, please don't fall victim to those who say it's the end of times and all your services will go away. This is about fiscal responsibility. Keeping taxes low is not about a reduction in police or firefighters or education excellence and so much more that I support a lot. in particular here, fire chief Cooper and Police Chief Salt. I just want to be careful that we aren't doing things that I'm hearing about, such as the report from the John Lockach Foundation that nine of North Carolina's most populous counties collected nearly three billion with a B more in property taxes over the last decade than inflation and population growth justified. So, I implore this council. I know you've took a fresh look and a second look and a third look, but maybe a fourth, fifth, sixth, I don't know, but please do not move forward with such an extreme tax increase. Thank you for your time. Thank you to all of you here.

Our next inerson speaker is Christina um Chandler.

[clears throat]

Good evening, members of

Could you move to your left, please?

Thank you.

Good evening, members of the council and to all and voters of North Carolina, Carrie in particular. I was appalled when I saw what the tax increase is scheduled for Carrie,

but that was dwarfed compared to where some of the money is going that you have authorized. I gave up a sock hop tonight for my civic duty to come down here because I was interested that you funded videos of dancers. If I had known that, I'd have come down here with my dance shoes and you could have recorded me and I wouldn't have charged you. But more appalling when I read down the list was the fact that you have also gone into the book publishing business. Now I have written a book and I have paid an illustrator to illustrate my book and when the book is published not by you any proceeds are being donated to animal protection organizations. That's what I'm going to do with my money that I am spending and I don't expect you to reimburse me. who gets the proceeds from the book that you all publish. Those both of those in my opinion are outrageous. And if taxpayers are required to pay for your what I would consider frivolous use of our money, I think you need to re-evaluate your priorities because I've thought about why would you do that to the taxpayers and after like Sherlock's home Sherlock Holmes when you rule out all of the possibilities Whatever remains, as impossible

as it may seem, is probably the answer. And the only answer I came up with, and I don't know any of you, but you all must hate me and the taxpayers of Carrie. Thank you for your time. Our next inerson speaker is Deborah Vaughn. Good evening, mayor and town council. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak tonight. I too have great concerns about the increase of town of taxes. Um, my my name is Debbie Vaughn and my husband and I have lived in Lockmeir for 36 years. We love living in Kerry and when we moved here, Kerry had a small town feel. We enjoyed the simple pleasures of riding bikes in the park, hiking, baseball games, and swim team in our neighborhood. Today, Kerry is very different. We drive down through downtown Kerry. There's a lot of concrete. There's a lot of development, a lot of parking decks, a lot of people coming into Ter Kerry and I believe they're outside people and I think they're attracted to the park. The park is wonderful, great design, but it comes at a high cost. It costs about $7 million per year to maintain and staff the Kerry Park. This includes events which I believe mostly attract outsiders. We don't really use the park. for our family. I can say that the park was not necessary for our old-fashioned fund. Getting to the proposed tax increase, I did a little study and for the medium value of a carry home approximately 649,000, the proposed increase would add about $244 to the annual tax bill. This brings the total estimate bill from 226 to 2450.

And I hear a lot of people say and I hear a lot of young people say I can't afford to live in Kerry. I hear s seniors that are concerned about the expense of taxes and what this will look like for them. My husband retired in 1998 and has the same pension since that time. So that has not changed. Um and there is no possibility of being, you know, grandfathered into um taxes or the the older tax rate or to cap the taxes as best as I can explain it. My question for you with respect is is our town our tax money being used in a practical and useful way for the citizens of Kerry? I can't help but go back and revisit some of the misuse of money. Can you please explain $330,000 spent on a dancing queen video for real? Can you not use a cell phone and do this and illustrate the town council, the town staff, how you're fun, how you work together, but at the expense of $330,000. I don't get it. I volunteer with CAP, which stands for Citizens Assisting Police. I heard firsthand today that some of the officers said we could use more officers to keep our town safe. I know in previous town council meetings that you have expressed that safety is a priority in Kerry. I I think it should be. I'm still in shock over the $37,000 that was spent for a council woman to earn a master's degree.

I'm sorry.

I'm in shock. Yes, sir.

Time is expired. If you would like to leave your comments with the clerks, you'll make sure we get a copy of it.

Sure. Thank you for the opportunity.

Thank you.

That was all our registered speakers.

If you're here in the audience and would like to speak at public speaks out, now's your opportunity and I would invite you forward. Anyone to speak at public speaks out.

Yes, you register for the budget.

Seeing no one, I'll close the public speaks out and we'll move to the consent agenda portion of our meeting. That's item four. For the benefit of people watching our meeting streaming, I'll take a moment to review the consent agenda items. Please keep in mind that one vote approves all of the items on the consent agenda. On the consent, we have bid award for upper Brier Creek sewer interceptor rehabilitation project, Verizon wireless equipment agreement, resolution for new installment purchase debt and minutes. Would council members like any of these items pulled for discussion? If not, I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda. Motion to approve the consented agenda items.

Second.

There's a motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. And we now move to public hearings. Same rules apply for public hearings that applied for public speaks out with one exception. Speakers now have five minutes each for their comments. Our first public hearing is the fiscal year 2027 proposed budget. Assistant town manager Stacy Tichi will present this item and then we'll open the public hearing. Council will not take action on this item this evening. Miss Ti.

Great. Good evening, Mayor and Council. I'm here tonight for the second of two public hearings on the fiscal year 2027 recommended budget. I'll begin by sharing three key takeaways related to the fiscal year 2027 budget. This budget is re is this recommended budget is rooted in council and public priority input. It represents the single largest investment in public safety in K's history and it's the first step in instituting a predictable

transparent approach to funding Kerry services. The fiscal year 2027 recommended budget totals $573.5 million, which is 12.2% higher than the current year budget. The operating budget makes up $445.9 million of this total, which is 6.1% higher than the current year. The capital budget totals 127.6 million and is 40.7% higher than the current year budget. It is not uncommon to see significant differences year-to-year in the capital budget as these funds support infrastructure projects at varying stages of readiness. The recommended budget includes a $3.75 cents tax increase. This is equal to an additional $20 per month for the median assessed value home of $650,000. The solid waste and recycling fee is recommended to increase $2 per month to $28 and utility rates are recommended to increase 4% overall with the increase applied to the base rate. This results in a $38 per month increase for the typical household. This budget reflects council's priorities, the input of our advisory boards, feedback from the community, and the town's biggest needs as identified by town directors and supervisors. The recommended budget includes a historic investment in public safety with nearly 20% of the total budget directed to public safety investments. It brings funding to new capital investments and reinforces our commitment to employees through the addition of 55 new positions and a focus on compensation through a classification and pay study and restoration of merit increase funding at 5%. The fiscical year 2027 budget also focuses on maintaining the infrastructure that is already in place. 54% of the capital budget supports maintenance projects like street resurfacing, facility maintenance, and

water and sewer line rehabilitation. This budget is the first of a three-year smoothing approach, addressing rising operational costs alongside capital investment needs in a predictable and transparent manner. Council has been making steady progress on this budget since January. We've all appreciated this chart together. Uh here you see the work we've done together between January 8th and May 14th. And that brings us to our second schedule slide uh where we are at June 11th and currently in our second of two budget public hearings. In addition to the budget openhouse held in April and two budget public hearings, we encourage residents to reach out year round via social media 311 and the public speaks out portion of any council meeting. This input is routinely shared with council through pulse reports and is summarized in each quarterly report. This concludes the staff overview of the fiscal year 2027 recommended budget following the public hearing. I am available for questions.

Thank you, Miss Teachi. One question before we go. This is the manager's recommended budget.

This is the manager's recommended budget. That is correct.

Thank you.

Just want to make sure everybody was clear.

Yes, sir. So now is the time for the public hearing on fiscal year 2027 budget. And I'll call on the clerk to read any written comments and call on any registered speakers.

We have five written comments and three registered speakers. We received um the written comments and these have been emailed to the council prior to the meeting, provided to council upon arrival and attached to the online agenda. Our first registered speaker is um Gil Pagan.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Council members, my name is Gil Pagan and I'm with the high impact team, a group of engaged citizens, some of who live in Kerry, that are very concerned and angry about your proposal to raise real estate taxes at a time when the Wake County Commissioners went ahead in the face of community opposition and approved a real estate tax increase as well. I went through five sections of the recommended budget for fiscal year 2027 and I saw enough from those just to stop right there. I suggest you change the name of the budget document to recommended from recommended to proposed. I'll tell you why. The areas that I looked at were in order of largest increases to smallest increases requested in spending and they were the legal department requested an increase in spend of 300%. Transit requested an increase in spend of 50%. Transportation an increase in spend of 45%. Town manager office an increase in spend of 42%. The 311 center requested an increase in spending of 25% with a 10% decline in calls projected by 2027 for you in time. In a time when everyone is hurting, you are asking for more money. When in reality, you should be cutting back like everyone else. Your tax increases coupled with those of the Wake County Commissioners are pricing the most vulnerable communities out of their homes. For a council that purports to advocate for the least of these and for those who don't have a

voice, your actions don't match your words. We should ignore what you say and watch what you do. seniors, blacks, Asians, and my own Hispanic community are being pushed out of Kerry because of tax increases. Maybe that's the plan. How is that inclusive? How is does that address diversity? Nomas taxes. No mass taxes. Renters of apartments and those who own trailer homes but rent the land underneath will see their rent increase to cover the real estate tax increases that you are proposing. Before asking for we the people for more money, I suggest this. Ask all department heads with budgetary authority to cut their budgets by 15%. Freeze all hiring for the next two years. Do a forensic audit of town finances to identify waste, fraud, abuse, and duplication of services. Look at leases and don't renew some. And move needed staff to existing offices to consolidate operations. Freeze sewer, trash, water, and utility fees at current levels for two years as that is a backhanded way for councils to get more money. If you don't freeze our real estate taxes this year, after you have done all that in a transparent way so everybody can see what you're doing, come back to we the people and make your case for more money until you keep your hands out of our pockets. Let your rhetoric about caring for the least of these blacks, Asians, and Hispanics match your actions. No mass tax increases. no mass tax increases. People

are hurting right now. People are hurting. It is not the time right now to raise taxes. Thank you.

Our next register speaker is Peter Fernandez.

Good evening. Good evening. Uh, and thank you all for having me. Uh, my name is Peter Fernandez. I have a few short remarks about the budget. Uh, please forgive me if I misspeak for I'm very young and inexperienced. Nonetheless, a few things stood out to me. I was reading over the parts of the 340page budget which I had the time to. I don't think I need to reiterate the scandal, which a lot of people have already brought up about uh frivolous spending and, you know, budget uh bullet points about uh dancing videos and such. Um, appropriately, the proposal for the budget mentions increased transparency and financial accountability are major goals of the budget. And it's that end that I have some remarks. I think it would mean a lot to the concerned residents to see the specific measures of accountability taken within the town administration, especially when throughout the entire budget there are millions of dollars of increase that go towards obscure operations and maintenance cost or drastic hikes in personnel service costs in virtually every category. I'll give a few examples that I found particularly interesting, but I promise a cursory glance will reveal far more throughout the entire document of what I'm talking about. In the legal department, as was a little mentioned on page 70, there's a hike of 300,000 in personnel costs and nearly 700,000 in operations and maintenance, doubling the total costs of the uh department. But in performance indicators listed thereafter, there is literally no projected change in the amount of contracts to be reviewed, matters handled, meetings attended, and etc. since 2025. In human resources, operation maintenance costs likewise increased by half a million dollars, making a more than 50% increase, while personnel costs remain about the same. The cited significant service level

change is frankly uh award salad of we want employees to thrive, but what is the actual specific improvement being done on planning and community development? On page 105, comedically, it says again that there are no significant service level changes. On the same page, there was a $900,000 increase in spending. In trust of the integrity of the council members, I presume there are obviously reasons for all the strange increases I listed. Nevertheless, this is a sort of subtle increased spending that is all over it and piles up a lot that requires this uh obviously upsetting tax increase in the first place. It is hard to understand what the increased spending is even on and no doubt is a cause for concern of residents and would do well to see a better justified in the budget. Perhaps the lack of easy justification is itself an invitation to cut spending, especially in the aftermath of a financial corruption scandal paired with raising property taxes. Thank you so much. You have a wonderful evening.

Our next register speaker is Arthur Road. Good evening. My name is Arthur Roadie. I'm a 20-year resident of Kerry. I currently pay no Kerry property tax, but I have children here who do. I think it takes unmitigated Gaul [clears throat] to propose a property tax hike of 10 more percent after having hiked taxes 40% making a total of 60% over the course of three years after the revelations of wasteful excessive spending we have all been made aware of over the last 6 to8 months. You council members should challenge the operating management of Kerry to make a

10% reduction in spending [clears throat] rather than an increase. That's normal in most businesses. Recent revelations make clear there's plenty of fat in the town budget to make such a cut. My favorite example is the electric fire truck that cost a excessive amount of money in order to get one special model. Two weeks ago, I observed a town response to water seeping out of the ground near my residence. Se several town employees arrived in three shiny new-looking pickup trucks and they contemplated the problem. Before departing, they decided to place an orange cone over the source of the leak. The next day, three employees of a private contractor arrived in a well-used truck trailer in a small backhoe. They did the excavation and fixed the lake promptly. We don't need a reprise of the many other examples of frivolous unnecessary expenses that have been reported by the news and observer recently. Town expenses are paid for by residents who are compelled under threat of law to pay the assessed taxes. Some of these residents make payments which strain their budgets and require sacrifices. The dispersement of these funds should be done with that situation in mind. Any excessive frivolous expenditures are a front to those taxpayers. The town apparently lacks many of the standard financial controls common in industrial corporations. A system for employees to confidentially report malfeasants of any kind. A system for authorization of business travel by persons of higher rank than the persons incurring those expenses and requiring receipts before any uh reimbursements are made. A system for authoriz

authorization of only those educational expenses that contribute to the improved functioning of the government. a system for authorization of capital expenditures requiring multiple officials to sign off. As the mayors told me in a meeting with him and the interim town manager, he and the council comprise the board of directors of a $500 million enterprise. With him as chairman, the town manager is the chief operating officer. If you remember the Enron Corporation that collapsed in 2001 due to financial mismanagement and fraud of Jeffrey Skielling, the chief operating officer, and Andrew Fasto, the chief financial officer. Responsibility extended to Kenneth Lei, chairman of the board. Mr. Lei used the same Sergeant Schultz defense that Mayor Weinre used. I know nothing. It didn't work for Mr. Lei and it should not work for the mayor. Not only were the officers of Enland published, many with jail sentences, their outside auditing firm also collapsed. There are reportedly a number of investigations into Car's financial scandal. I hold out little hope anything will come of them when and if the results are ever reported. I expect all blame will be placed on the former town manager who was rewarded with a lavish financial settlement. What were you thinking paying him that money? In order to get its fiscal situation under control and restores some semblance of confidence in town government. The council needs members who are experienced in the essential cost control activities of large organizations and who know that those who failed in their preciary duties duties should act nobly and resign. Council must engage a

new competent auditor. A new compet town manager should be hired from outside the existing town government staff. Mayor and Mayor Prom should retine the resign their offices and they should challenge operating management of Kerry to reduce rather than increase expenses.

Sorry, your time is expired. Thank you.

No additional register speakers.

If you're in the audience and would like to speak at this budget public hearing, now is your opportunity. uh protocol has already been established [clears throat] and I've already stated I'm Pamela and I'm running for president of the United States of America for 2028. I am in opposition to this budget completely. This does not reflect democracy. It reflects capitalism. It oppresses the poor. It robbes the robs the rich and it totally murders and eliminates the middle class. It will increase homelessness. It will increase crime. It will increase violence against women and children. I spoke with you on April the 16th of this year and told you that we need to have some accountability to landlords. We need an escrow account where landlords put a portion of the rent into escrow to maintain property. But you want to raise taxes on property that is not even adequately cared for. You want to spend more money on guns and

violence and mental health medications instead of getting to the root of people's issues. I don't see anything in this budget that reflects anything to stop homelessness, violence against women, supporting mothers, women who work three, four, and five jobs to provide for a family. And many of them are single parent mothers. I have an initiative called Mother's Lives Matter, Mom's Lives Matter. I know there are many people who think kids are first, kids are goats, children are first, but children don't exist without mothers and fathers. I don't see anything reasonable in this budget. It's not only offensive, but it is taking this city, this state, and our country backwards. You may be comfortable where you live. You may have one car, you may have two cars, you may have your head down not caring or liking what I'm saying, I really don't care. But the people who vote for you, a lot of people don't even know how to read the ballots, I don't see anything in this budget that is working or dealing with literacy, financial or otherwise. See, we can't get comfortable and we can't get complacent thinking that everything is is the way it's supposed to be because it's not. I don't see anything in this budget that's doing any resources for people with protection orders or who need protection orders. I don't see anything in this budget that keeps a family together, brings a family together. I don't see anything in this budget that is reasonable or fair to multi-racial people, black people, brown people, and

indigenous people. This reflects capitalism. It reflects many, many different things. protects the rights of heterosexual people. This budget needs to be taken off the table. Not only do you not need to make a decision tonight on this the budget, it needs to be totally redone. You have left out so many people and there if there are people who do have mental illnesses instead of giving them labels, get to the root of their mental illnesses and find out the cause. Doping them up and throwing them in group homes and halfway houses. And this budget also will increase mass incarceration which is present day slavery because Thomas Corwin said under no circumstances slavery to be abolished in the United States of America in the 13th amendment of the United States Constitution. So who's going to be the slaves and who will be the slave owners? This budget is unreasonable. [clears throat] is unfair and it does not protect the religious freedom of we who are Christians. Rethink. Say you're on that side of the table today, but you could be on this one tomorrow with the budget that you are proposing. It may not be your children. You may not even have children. It may not be your spouses. It may not even be your animals. But you're not being reasonable. You're not being fair. You're not being sensible. You're being capitalistic and you're making money off of people who have no money. How dare you increase property taxes when you don't even give people what they need to maintain their property?

Thank you.

Anyone else would like to speak at this budget public hearing?

Anyone at all? Okay, we'll close the budget public hearing and we'll move to our next public hearing. 29A9 Jacobs Creek and 25REZ16 Jacobs Creek Lane resoning. Principal planner Rachel Smith will introduce the item. Council will not take action on this resoning and annexation tonight. It will be referred to the planning and zoning board and will return to the council at a future meeting. Miss Smith.

Good evening, council. The owner of approximately 8.99 acres addressed 4312 Jacobs Creek Lane requests the application of initial count town of Kerry zoning upon annexation. The property is located east of the Cadam and Wake County line and west of the American Tobacco Trail and White Oak Elementary School. A concurrent annexation petition 25A9 has been filed. Car's GIS maps indicate a small amount of stream buffer on the western extent of the property, which will be verified by field determination at the time of development plan review. The site is located a sixth of a mile west of the American Tobacco Trail, which is accessible via an existing Greenway Trail connection extending east from the Jasper Olive Road and Yates Road intersection. Existing sidewalks are shown in blue and additional segments will be built as development occurs in the area. Yatestore Road, a four-lane thoroughfare, provides access to the site, and the applicant will extend Yatestore Road along the site's eastern boundary. You may recall the Courtyards at White Oak resoning approved last year, now known as the Courtyards at Jacob's Creek, a 55 and older age restricted community. This community is currently

under development plan review and surrounds a subject property on three sides. This development will provide additional connectivity to the site via the extension of Mystic Seal Lane. The current zoning is Wake County residential 40 watershed. The applicant requests resoning to carry residential 12 conditional use with the Jordan Lake Wershed Protection Overlay District and the Conservation Residential Overlay District. The proposed zoning conditions include limiting the use to 16 detached dwellings, a minimum of 2400 square ft of community gathering space, and minimum lot sizes will be calculated outside of repairarian buffer areas. Buffers shall be in common open space and there will be sidewalks on both sides of all streets. Gatestore Road will be constructed to all applicable specifications. And because the courtyards at Jacob's Creek Development is expected to be built first, Mystic Sean will initially terminate with the turnaround bulb at the Courtyard's property line. The applicant will remove the turnaround turnaround bulb when they connect their development to Mystic Sea Lane. Staff has evaluated the request with the imaginary community plan. This site is located within the green level special planning area neighborhoods west of Flat Branch sub area. This special planning area supports a gradual downward transition in density moving west from NC540 towards the Chattam County line with areas west of the flat branch stream not to exceed about 2.5 dwelling units per acre. Additional policy guidance includes shielding development from streets, contextsensitive design, and a predominant land use of detached dwellings on quarter acre or larger lots.

The proposed 16 detached dwellings on 12,000 square foot minimum lots and the resulting density of 1.78 dwellings per acre is in keeping with the area's land use pattern and generally meets the policy guidance of the special planning area and shape chapter for compatibility and transitions. The proposal would provide at least 2400 square ft of community gathering area, which is twice the LDO requirement for a development of this size, which may help to promote open space and tree canopy preservation. Move chapter policies are generally met by the proposal's commitment to build sidewalks on all sites of subdivision streets, where the LDO only requires one side for local streets. the removal of the mystic seedlane turnaround bulb and the extension of Yates Road as a multimmoal street subject to all Kerry specifications. A neighborhood meeting was held in February and six neighborhood residents attended. There were no direct questions or concerns related to this proposal, only a question about a different reasonzoning. Staff received two emails after providing notice of the public hearing with concerns about traffic on Bachelor Road. Signs were posted and notice was provided within 800 ft of the subject property which exceeds the requirements of the state and the LDO for notice. This concludes my presentation. Um Worth Mills, the applicant's representative, is here to provide comments. Um and after the public hearing, I'm available to answer your questions. Thank you, Miss Smith. I'd invite the applicant's representative up at this time.

Good evening, Mayor and members of

council. Worth Mills with Longleaf Law Partners here on behalf of Sterling West LLC who is the property owner and the applicant. I'll keep my comments brief just because staff did a great job of summarizing uh our request. But um essentially this is a request for R12 conditional use to uh build up to 16 single family detached dwellings on an approximately 9 acre parcel. Uh density uh would result in under two units an acre. 1.78 is the calculation. The density and minimum lot size are consistent with the green level special planning area recommendations for both uh densities below 2 and a half units an acre and lot sizes of at least a quarter acre in size. Um to the south and southeast are developments that have a higher density uh and and sort of a more dense housing product than what we are proposing here. So we think we are uh very much in line with uh not only the uh community plan but also with uh the surrounding development or the developments that are currently under construction. Um as mentioned we [clears throat] are requiring all perimeter buffers being common open space. We have commitments uh for sidewalks on both sides of any internal streets. We've made commitments to the extension and construction of Yates Store Road and we have doubled the amount of required community gathering area for uh a development of this size. Um I'm available to answer any questions as well, but appreciate your time this evening. Thank you.

Thank you. Now it's time for the public hearing for both the annexation and resoning of Jacob's Creek. That's 259 and 25 REZ16. And I'll call on the clerk to read any written comments. Call on any registered speakers.

No written comments and no registered

If you're in the audience and would like to speak at this public hearing, now is your opportunity. And I would invite you forward.

Seeing no one, we'll close the public hearing. Open it up to council members for questions, comments. Your district.

No.

Your district.

Council member Bonsel.

That's Yeah, that's my district. No, I don't have any questions. Comments.

I have one.

I have one, too. Just one question. Um, and this is more general. So, so here we are talking about a special planning area or a spa. Um, there are recommended densities for the area. What teeth is there in the special planning area? Here. Here's what I've wondered every time this comes up. Why isn't just zoned to be that recommended density or less so that the people can build by right? We don't do we don't do zoning. A property owner comes to the council and requests a zoning. We can do overlay zoning and we have done that before like with the town center area, but these areas are so big that we just put an a guide out there of what we would like to see, but it takes quite a bit of work to zone it for a property owner. Having said that, we did do a town library zoning

2002

with 2003 with adoption of the LDO, you changed all the names of the different zoning districts. So,

yep.

The town center

and the town center got very specific kind of parcel by parcel reasonzoning, but the rest of town was more area wide and not parcel by parcel. allows the property owner their right to come in and decide how they would like that their own land to be developed if developed at all.

I mean it's great idea. It would give more certainty. I think maybe some property owners would want to just stay within Wake County and not

Well, I'm not talking about the annexation necessarily, but when when we have these carried properties with a special planning area with guidelines for things

like zoning and density, it seems like if it would be an opportunity to skip this entire expensive process and have the zoning that we want it at. It sounds a little like the reasonzonings we had year ago years ago that were so prescriptive units per acre what it would look like and all this stuff and we decided that that was actually hurting us than helping us. So

is that why

that's my opinion. I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah,

I'm not saying do it everywhere. I'm certainly not suggesting we do that everywhere, but it seems like we have very consistent resoning requests in some areas. I I would hate to take that um right away from a property owner to determine what they want their zoning to be. That would be my two questions. I don't know. Did you have a question? No, you can go ahead. That's okay. Um first, this is the first time I've seen R40W. I normally remember saying R40 or is this or are we just putting W now for Wake County?

That's an excellent question. That is a Wake County designation indicating that it has a watershed protection overlay district associated with it.

So having said that, uh what does that mean and look like for the reasonzoning? Does that mean there's certain buffers that are outlined? what what does that look like um in in actual reasoning time?

So, also a great question. So, the Wake County Wershed Protection Overlay District looks very similar to ours because it's the Jordan Lake subdist. Um but the R40 would of course require 1 acre or more lots. That'd be the most defining difference. And we can also provide more information on Wake County versus our wershed districts if you would like.

I would really like that because the density requested is 1.78 or something like that [snorts] which is higher than what Wake County would allow. Maybe that's good, maybe that's bad. I I don't know. That information would be great. The the other question is because you brought it up, the Mystic Sea Lane

uh is in a different um reasonzoning and I understand that and they'll it'll have a future connection. Uh will there be a future road connection sign on the bulb on Mystic Seal Lane so all of [snorts] those new residents won't be surprised because how does that look like? all of a sudden there'll be a bulb there and then what a year or two later you've got a bulb that turns into a street. What does that look like?

The the timing is unknown, but we do presume courtyards at Jacob's Creek will be done first. So that's why that zoning condition is showing up. It's not impossible that there couldn't be a coordination if the development timeline aligned. Um certainly courtyards at Jacob Creek is well ahead, but this is a much smaller piece of property. Um so it is possible that it it would not exist if there could be coordination. Um but if it is built first then then our standard specs do have the this road will will be built eventually signs. So

but it's a bulb not a can't believe I'm talking about it's a bulb not a [snorts]

there are other examples.

So we do that whether it's a bulb or

it's a temporary turn around sometimes it dead ends. Yes.

So no matter what if there's a potential we always put a sign there. That's my question.

I want to believe we do.

Can we just

when it is at the edge of a property line specifically?

Okay.

I can confirm because I just saw it myself that there is that sign you're talking about at the end of um Yates Store Road right where it stubs just past the property line in that corner.

Right. Yeah. I'm just more concerned since you brought it up about Miss Dixie

because I don't want to get emails from all those future residents who say, "Well, this is a this is a culde-sac or a bulb or whatever the word is." Um, I never expected this road to go past it. So, if we could just make sure that that happens to set a predictability with an expectation with those new residents, that would be great.

I think good points. Very good points. That brings up one question that I have and you already touched upon it, but if you could emphasize a little bit more. I believe the um reasoning request is for R40W, right? To R40W

to R12 conditional use from RW R40W. So which means that um in R40W they will be required to have 1 acre lot versus in R12 now it's [snorts] 10,000 square ft which is 0.25 acres right

it's 12,000 ft yes

12,000 ft but um 0.25 25 acres.

Little bit more.

Yeah, a little bit.

A little bit more.

I think we did for another project that's so Yeah, something like that.

Yeah. So, for if we were to, and I'm just asking a way question, a process question. And if we were if we the council says we're okay, we're we're fine with this switch. Do we have to take any special permissions from Bay County for that or we just we our decision is the final decision? Okay.

Correct.

And and just to be clear, I'm assuming this is in ETJ. That's why it has a zoning. And so that's and usually placeholder zonings are R40.

Okay. Excellent. that makes you come in for a reasoning.

A point of clarification, it's not within the town's extra ter.

So, how does it have a zoning? Then

it's Wake County zoning. It has Wake County zoning of our

asking to be in it.

WW

Wake Watershed. There, I invented an acronym.

Yay.

Okay. Thank you. Any [snorts] other questions?

I I had uh one comment. Um, and this is just again a little bit broad, but specific to this, one of the things that's sort of become apparent to me as we have annexed since I've joined council here in my fourth year a lot of a lot of properties really. Um, probably not as much as my more experienced colleagues, but um, I'm starting to look at them and go, is this going to cost us more than they pay? um particularly in light of of annexations in areas where we do need to build fire stations and where we there's pressure on response times and stuff. I don't know if I'm legally allowed to say I want to know how much revenue this is going to bring in versus

what it will cost us to maintain the roads, the infrastructure, supply public safety, and all those things. But I sure would love to know that information. uh because I honestly at this point would be very disincclined to approve annexations where there's a an it's just going to cost current residents more in property taxes as opposed to I'm not expecting to make a profit off of them. Um but and I think it would also create some probably density pressure on properties they're looking to annex and that isn't my intention but um I I would like to see it be sort of what I would consider to be self-sufficient as far as paying into the the the town what the town is supplying and maintaining for for these properties.

What would that look like to you? Like are I going to ask

what would that look like? For example, on a recent resoning, I said to myself, "Okay, they're going to build this many homes on the property. They're going to be this many square feet. I can figure out

broadly what the approximate tax contribution's going to be." It's the same way that as it was explained to me, a lot of developers were like, well, you know, you got to make the land cost and the building costs work. And that's it's

almost formulaic how you come to density when it comes to trying to pay, you know, for a development. But, you know, to me, I don't know exactly what that looks like. I know I'm asking for something that is, you know, pretty unusual and I'm not expecting a to the penny estimate, but uh you've got to lay we must have an idea of what any single block can carry, what it costs to install and maintain water lines, storm storm drains, the streets, um all of that. And I'm this is not me looking at this saying this isn't going to be, you know, this isn't gonna pay for itself. I'm looking at this and saying I have absolutely no idea if this is going to self-fund or not. And that's why I'm asking um for that information because I think it's an important thing to consider when thinking about annexing.

And that's a good question. The only thing I would add that ask you is they have the right to develop. So if you say no,

what are you looking for? Are you looking for more density to match up uh the cost?

I'm I'm looking to understand that they do have the right to to develop, but they don't necessarily have the right to be annexed either.

Um

and we don't if they're not annexed, we are not having to provide services, infrastructure, storm water, roads reservicing, all that. Correct. Okay. Like I know there's some we have we have agreements and we do go of course go outside of our our exact town limits. You know, we service donut holes and we have inter agency agreements. I completely understand that and that's appropriate and good and it makes the region better. Uh but when we we every time we have one of these these annexations, I go I I can't help it. I'm like how much is that going to cost us?

And and that's a good point. So they can develop in county zoning today

and they would do well in septic unless do we allow them to tap into our water sewer lines anymore? You have to be in the town.

Yeah, we used to allow that I think but

right

so they would have to do that.

Council member Con Johnson my mic is

I know there uh you and I are on the same page tonight. Uh I I have briefly discussed the same concept with staff and I think maybe it's my perspective as a new council member as well looking for an additional data point as we consider these resonings and you know what I go back to again and again I'm a visual thinker and it's a powerful visual aid is our triple vin diagram of you know the the priorities and tradeoffs you make between service levels tax rates and density and that visual aid if you're in the the combination of you know lower taxes and density. We look at the relationship between those two and one of the arguments for density is revenue for the municipality and then you offset you know uh service cuts or the tax rate. And so in thinking about those tradeoffs, I feel like we're sort of missing that data point as we consider resonings and revenue and thinking about spending on additional services. So I I agree that I think that would be really helpful to think about as part of the complete consideration of of applications.

Absolutely. I just want it to be mutually beneficial. Like I really and truly I'm not saying they need to pay more than they cost us. I'm saying they need to pay what they cost us.

You're required to provide services and I it's a fair point and I just did a quick calculation. I'm not very good with calculations but if I were to estimate $1 million home on 16 of those um about $60,000 um in one year is what we get.

But I have no idea what it costs to put storm storm water infrastructure and

water lines. I believe you don't have issues storm water.

Keep in mind that's the cost the developers cost, right? Putting storm water out. the maintenance after it's out there. But the but

that's where the Oh, but you know what?

No, I'm just I'm just explaining that yes, the roads are put in by and paid for by the developer, the storm water,

right? Facilities, the water, the if it needs a pump station, any traffic improvement, the Yate store road, that is an investment done by the developer, which is really paid for by the homeowner. What you're getting to I think which is really interesting is if you wanted more tax money then you would in the only way to do that is for them to increase density and I can't ever remember sitting here and asking a developer to go back and give us more density

but I don't know what that density what that magic number is to make this a self-sufficient

property either maybe it could be only one house per acre was the trick. I truly don't don't know what that is, but I see you're doing the math in your head. I can see it in your eyes.

Many years ago, I was going to just add this. Um, council asked for and there was a study that looked at that looked at, if I recall, size of house was planning department,

take into account apartments, commercial properties where there's less services.

Um, so my my recommendation would be is you you could or ask us to convene a study to get that for you. There's probably some version of economic analysis to it as well. Um, but yes, you're on the right path.

Will there be a cost for that?

Oh, [laughter] well money.

All you'd have to do is let us bring that back to you to determine what the cost is or if or if staff could do it

or staff. Yeah,

but it has I don't it it's probably been at least 20 years.

I don't even remember it.

I do.

Do you remember Carol?

Because I was surprised that basically the only thing that broke even or made money was highrises.

Everything else lost money. So

yeah. Well, and it's to me this is also

a case of, you know, it's analogist to analogous. I always say that word wrong. My my boyfriend in college got me a rabbit as a gift, right?

I didn't have a cage. I didn't have food. I I like I don't I didn't have then all of a sudden I've got vet bills and all these things down the line. That's sort of how I see but the developers put in the infrastructure. That's great, but down the line we're going to have to we're going to have to do all those things. So I always look unfortunately I look at an annexation like somebody gave me a rabbit which is

it's the difference of the in it's the opposite of the influx subsidy right we used to have a lot of money

but now it's the opposite because we're an older community and we're

and as we age maintenance right it's when you get a new house everybody's really happy with the new house you don't have any maintenance for the first five years and then after that you're like whoa this is an expensive house

right so yeah it's I it might be cost-effective for us in the first few years, but then we

over time

over time it's going to increase. And that's probably something that we should do and we did it once over uh looking at our older neighborhoods and how they're increasing in cost just like the roads are increasing in cost of the maintenance. It's it's even bigger than just houses.

I think for this one, do we recommend this for planning and zoning review?

Oh, yeah. It goes to planning and toning.

It's part of the process. If you start mcking with the process, you're asking for trouble.

No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm just bringing the conversation back to

She's trying to move us. I

was say she wants to watch the games. [laughter]

All right. Good conversation. Uh, this will go to the planning and zoning board for their review and recommendation. And Miss Smith, I guess, will help look up some of the questions and council members can contact her. Awesome. Thank you.

We now move to our next public hearing. Act 39, amendment to the imaginary

community plan. Carpenter special planning district and assistant planning director Katie Dry will introduce the item. Council will not take action on this amendment tonight, but it will be referred to the planning and zoning board for their review and recommendation and it will return to us at a future meeting. Miss Dry.

Good evening, mayor and council. This is a request to amend the imagine carry community plan. Items which implement or update the imaginary community plan are given act numbers which is short for action. Act 39 is a comprehensive plan amendment for an assemblage of properties at Morrisville Carpenter Road and Lewis Stevens Drive. This property is located within K's corporate limits. The applicant proposes to amend policy guidance in the Carpenter special planning area to allow multifamily and non-residential uses and buildings of up to five stories. Act 39 is being requested as part of a larger resoning. This resoning includes a subject site for Act 39 plus properties to the north. The properties to the north do not require a comprehensive plan amendment as the uses are largely in alignment with the policies of the carpenter special planning area as they're proposing detached dwellings and town houses. The southern portion of the resoning where uh which includes act 39 is proposing multif family uses and non-residential uses. The reasonzoning for the larger assemblage will be um considered in the coming months through a public hearing. So, why are we here tonight? To consider the comprehensive plan amendment prior to the reasonzoning. I'll briefly talk about the process to date and um process options uh that applicant can choose. So, the applicant submitted a resoning uh with a comprehensive plan amendment filed on January 13 of 2026.

The reasonzoning neighborhood meeting was held in March of this year. There were questions and concerns shared at that meeting regarding the proposed multif family use, the non-residentidential uses, uh, the proposed height, transitions, traffic, and for this case, uh, the town of K's land development ordinance allows for comprehensive plan amendments to be considered separately from or concurrently with resoning applications. In this case, the applicant has requested that the comprehensive plan amendment be considered prior to the reasonzoning request as a way to bring forward the requested change to the adopted vision earlier in the process to receive feedback and direction from council. As part of the imagine carry community plan, there are five special planning areas that were identified because they represent key opportunity areas where additional guidance is needed to help ensure future development aligns with the community's vision. Additional special planning areas and corridor plans may be added to Imagine Carrie over time as our community matures and evolves. As we've been discussing the forthcoming visioning around Weston, a potential creation of a special planning area, uh, which is an example of this. For each special planning area, detailed direction on important topics such as community character, development form, transportation, and design expectations are provided. These special planning areas also identify key issues and opportunities unique to each area to guide development decisions or preserve historic character. The map here highlights the special planning areas within Kerry. This includes the eastern Kerry gateway downtown historic Carpenter which is what we're discussing tonight green level and the Chattam Kerry joint planning area. Carpenter has been an important focus for Car's efforts for several decades.

In the light in the late 1980s, K's planning jurisdiction expanded westward to include the Carpenter community. And a major milestone came in 1996 when Kerry adopted a new townwide land use plan. For the first time, Carpenter was identified as a special opportunity site, recognizing that its unique rural character could serve as a foundation for a distinctive destination in car in Kerry. In 2000, the importance of the Carpenter historic uh resources were further recognized with a Carpenter Historic District when it was listed in the National Register of Historic Places. Building on that recognition, Carrie adopted the Carpenter community vision plan in 2005. This plan was further refined uh Car's vision emphasizing historic preservation, contextsensitive development, protection of rural character, and preservation of open spaces. And the policies of the 2005 plan were pulled into and refined further with the adoption of the Kerry Community Plan in 2017. This image shows the location of the National Register District, which includes the rural crossroads and properties on the north side of Morrisville Carpenter Road. It should be noted that the site for Act 39 is within the Carpenter Special Planning Area and it is not within the National Register District. the associated resoning which straddles the north and south side of Morrisville Carpenter Road and will be considered at a later date. Um it should be noted that the northern portion of that resoning does include um properties within the National Register District and there are two contributing structures. The subject site is at the southwest quadrant of the intersection of Lewis Stevens and Morrisville Carpenter. It includes several structures and a large

portion of the site remains undeveloped. It is adjacent to and north of Magnolia Estates. Carpenter Park is across from Lewis Stevens Drive and Good Hope Farm is in the quadrant uh just across the intersection. Properties to the north are largely undeveloped and as noted they are are part of the associated reszoning. Because the site is within the special planning area, there are additional policies that are applicable. The applicant is proposing to change two parts of the special planning area. First is policy 3, which speaks to new neighborhoods in the southern section of the special planning area. The current policy envisions detached dwellings. The applicant has proposed to add the following uses. Multif family and non-residential uses such as uh restaurant, retail, and office uses at Morrisville Carpenter Road and Lewis Stevens Drive if sheds are protected through his historic preservation streetscapes, building architecture is consistent with the historic area, and transitions are made to the south and to the west. The applicant is also proposing to change policies within the sub area of the Carpenter Special Planning Area called Neighborhood South. This area is shown in yellow on the map. The applicant is proposing to expand the uses in the vision of the plan from detached dwellings to allow for multif family and non-residential uses such as retail, restaurant, and office uses. They are also proposing that buildings of up to five stories could be envisioned at the intersection of Morrisville Carpenter Road and Lewis Stevens Drive with appropriate transitions uh building architecture and streetscapes. Similar to a resoning, a comprehensive plan amendment uh will first have a public hearing, then be considered by the planning and zoning board, and then

back to the council for a final decision. The town of K's land development ordinance states that proposals to amend the comprehensive plan should be evaluated based on certain criteria which include but are not limited to the following. First is a change in projections or assumptions from those on which the comprehensive plan is based. Identification of new issues, needs or opportunities that are not adequately addressed in the comprehensive plan. A change in the visions, values, policies or objectives on which the plan is based or standards governing the physical development of the town or any other geographic areas addressed by the comprehensive plan or identification of errors or omissions in the comprehensive plan. Staff's preliminary analysis notes that the proposal varies from the adopted vision in terms of use, scale, height, and transitions. Uh staff also notes that the imaginary community plan does direct development patterns to certain designations within the future growth framework map. Generally, higher densities and building heights are to be located in designations such as destination centers, commercial mixed use centers, downtown special planning areas, and others. Uh, currently the Carpenter special planning area is not identified for higher densities or heights and is instead intended to support contextsensitive development that reinforces the area's historic character. This concludes my presentation. Ashley Terzas with Parker Poe is representing the applicant and is here to speak to the case. And following the public hearing, I will be available to answer questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Dry. I would invite the applicant's representative up.

Um, good evening, mayor and council members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you this evening. My name is Ashley Honeyut Trouses with Parker Poe and I'm here on behalf of the applicants, David Frell and Dr. Bill Souder, the owners of the property that is the subject of this comprehensive plan amendment request and the associated reasoning that Katie just went over. David and Bill have deep roots in the Carpenter community. Their families have lived and owned land in Carpenter for generations. They've not only witnessed the growth in this part of Kerry, they've helped shape it. Over the years, they've been involved in the development of neighborhoods such as Magnolia Estates, Carpenter Village, and Legacy. They help make possible important community assets such in including Carpenter Elementary School, Green Hope High School, West Regional Library, and the Good Hope um Farm Park. As Carrie has grown and more families have chosen to call this area home, David and Bill have consistently worked to help meet the town's needs while remaining respectful of the history and character of the Carpenter community that has been a part of their family's lives for generations. David and Bill have submitted a plan development district resoning application for this property which also includes the land to the north of um Morrisville Carpenter Road. And that proposed development would provide a mix of housing types and uses, important greenway connections that have been planned for many years and the preservation of two historic homes on the northern portion of the property where David and Bill grew up. Uh the overall vision for that that plan development district is a context-sensitive infill development that provides a variety of housing choices and neighborhoods serving commercial amenities while preserving and honoring the history of the property. For David and Bill, this is an opportunity to help shape the future of their the land their families have stewarded for generations and to establish clear standards that respect Carpenters heritage while accommodating thoughtful growth. But that reasoning will come before you at a later date. Tonight's discussion is much narrower. We're here to discuss a proposed amendment to some of the policy guidance contained within the Carpenter special planning area of the imagine carry community plan. The amendment before you would recognize that multif family residential uses and neighborhood scale retail which could be standalone or in a

mixeduse building may be appropriate at the southwestern corner of the intersection of Morrisville Carpenter Road and Lewis Stevens Drive subject to four important guard rails. First, viewsheds must be preserved through historic preservation buffers and contextually sensitive uh appropriate streetscape design. Second, building architecture must be compatible with and respectful of Carpenters historic character. David and Bill's families have been a part of this community for generations, and honoring that character is deeply important to them. Third, appropriate transitions must be provided between surrounding residential areas. And fourth, building heights would be limited to five stories, uh, the same height as the Alta Ivy apartments recently constructed across NC55 and visible from the subject property today. David and Bill's reasons for bringing forward this proposal are straightforward. Carrie needs housing and walkable commercial amenities as it absorbs new growth. Um, it's also a higher uh revenue generating use. Um, the Imagine Care Community Plan contains numerous uh policies encouraging greater housing choice, a broader range of housing options within neighborhoods, mixeduse development in appropriate locations, and opportunities for residents to live near services and amenities. Kerry remains one of the most desirable places to live in North Carolina. Yet, the supply of developable land is increasingly limited while demand continues to grow. And when demand significantly exceeds supply, housing costs increase. We all see that reality every day. Um, and this site presents an infill opportunity to accommodate additional housing in a location [cough and laughter] that is [clears throat] already surrounded by significant public investment and transportation infrastructure. Allowing additional housing types here enables more efficient land use of land without expanding denser development into surrounding historic areas like the carpenter crossroads or other areas in the National Register historic district. It supports responsible growth while remaining consistent with the long-term intent of the special planning area. As Katie went over, the historic uh Carpenter special planning area traces its origins to the Carpenter community plan developed through a lengthy public

process in the late 1990s and early 2000s and adopted in 2005. Much of that plan was later incorporated into the Imaginary Community Plan in 2017. And at that time and still today, the approximately 11 acre area at the intersection of Morrisville Carpenter Road and Lewis Stevens Drive is recommended for single family detached residential development. Yet, this property occupies a unique location within the broader Carpenter Planning Area. It's near the edge of the planning area and it is not located within the National Register Historic District, uh, which is across the street. It contains no historic structures. The site is primarily a cleared field. The existing barn was built in the 1980s, and the small residence on the property was built in the 1950s. Um, and most importantly, the context surrounding this property has changed dramatically since the Carpenter uh, community plan was adopted. What was once a rural crossroads is now a major intersection that carries substantially more traffic than it did 20 years ago. Even in the 2017 update to the Carpenter Special Planning Area acknowledged that the area was evolving because of roadway expansion, schools, the library, and new residential development that simply did not exist when the original plan was created. The plan specifically identified the Morrisville Carpenter Road realignment as one of the most significant future changes. That project has now been completed, resulting in a four-lane divided roadway through this area. The plan itself recognizes that while the roadway serves an important regional transportation need, by its very nature, a four-lane highway can be inongruous facility within the heart of a historically rural area. In addition, there are now public amenities surrounding this intersection that did not exist when the original plan was adopted. Good Hope Farm and Carpenter Park are directly across the street. Um and and again, David and Bill were a part of um giving that to the town. And from a planning perspective, it makes sense to locate additional residents within walking distance of parks and public amenities that the town has invested in and continues to maintain. For all these reasons, we believe this amendment represents a targeted and thoughtful update to planning guidance that is now more than 20 years old. It supports K's broader housing and growth objectives. It responds to change

conditions on the ground and it preserves the core principles that have long defined the Carpenter special planning area, historic preservation, context sensitive design, and respect for community character. And I also want to quickly emphasize what this amendment does not change. Uh the core policies that define the Carpenter special planning area would remain exactly as they are today. policies focused on preserving the area's historic heritage. Policies encouraging architecture and design that respects Carpenters's historic context. Policies supporting village trails and pedestrian connections that have a more rural character. Policies promoting the preservation of historic structures. None of these policies are proposed to change. We are continuing to work closely with town staff on the details of the resoning proposal that would incorporate those goals and policies including architecture, transportation improvements, buffers, public infrastructure, and many other elements. In fact, uh we've already been working through the site planning and transportation issues on the resoning case for more than a year. Um if the council determines that updated guidance is warranted, then it becomes our responsibility to work with staff and the community to develop a resoning proposal that fulfills that guidance and merits your approval. Approval of the this comprehensive plan amendment does not guarantee approval of any future resoning request. The land development ordinance expressly allows these policy questions to be considered separately from a resoning application. If the eventual resoning proposal fails to satisfy the policy guidance under discussion tonight or if other issues arise related to design, transportation compatibility or community impacts, the council retains full discretion with respect to the resoning. This amendment simply provides updated policy guidance regarding the types of land uses that may be appropriate at this location. And rather than spending uh years refining a resoning proposal that we know does not align with the land use policy guidance, we're asking the council to first consider whether this guidance adopted more than 20 years ago calling for exclusively single family detached homes at what is now a major intersection still reflects the most appropriate vision for infill development on this unique site within the historic Carpenter special planning area. For the next chapter of this

property, David and Bill envision thoughtful, contextsensitive infill development by allowing a limited expansion of housing choices and neighborhoods scale commercial uses at this major intersection while also requiring clear protections and design standards. This amendment strikes an appropriate balance, preserving Carpenters's historic identity while helping meet the needs of a growing community more so than a handful of large lot homes that could be built there today. Um, thank you for your time and consideration this evening. Um and we we welcome your feedback and we look forward to this discussion. Thank you.

Thank you.

So now's the time for the public hearing for act 39 amendment to the imaginary community plan carpenter special planning area. We call on the clerk for written comments and call on any registered speakers.

We received 10 written comments. They've been emailed to the council prior to the meeting, provided to council upon arrival, and attached to the online agenda. Our we have two registered speakers. Our first one is Susan Ornstein. Good evening everyone.

Can you move to your left just a little bit?

Okay.

Thank you.

I'm going to be using a phrase that's usually used at the national level. have it make sense. You're proposing taking a very buolic terrain with historic homes and moving those homes around to accommodate a fivestory building that will be jarringly different from the stated historical designation of the surrounding area. You're also proposing adding an overwhelming amount of commercial space.

And I don't know if many of you have taken a walk down to the brand new community meeting place squared right down the block on Carpenter Town Road. But I was out there canvasing and I was kind of stunned. It was cooler a Saturday afternoon at 3:00 and they are there is literally no foot traffic there. Most of those commercial spaces are not rented. In fact, mo 90% of them are not rented and even the liquor store didn't even have somebody coming there. In case you haven't noticed or the people who are proposing this change to the area, we live in a time of ecommerce and conventional enterprises are hurting. People can get it cheaper and quicker at Amazon and have it delivered to their homes with just the use of their mouse. Outside of the grocery store, which can also suffer losses, i.e. Look at Harris Teter. Um, what store have you been in lately? Why would we need a physical store when something like Instagram account when something like Instagram and influencers have really good recommendations? I may be 75, guys, but let me tell you, I follow a lot of people and a lot of those recommendations influence what I buy much more than what I find in the store or what I do in my house. Um, and this is not a time of we build it and they will come. That field of dreams is gone today. We live in corporate America. And I'm glad you brought up Altter Ivy, which is the Behemoth across Route 55. It's not rented. It's not full. And and

it's uh the shape of business today is so different than the shape of business 15 years ago or precoid. We're living in a time when entrylevel jobs are scarce and when corporations are using AI. So we can build a lot of buildings but that doesn't mean that those buildings are going to be filled with people who have jobs and that's something we have to bear in mind before we overbuild because that has happened in New Jersey and that's where I used to live. So doing more with less is the way corporations run. So you're not going to have the same influx of people. But even if you were to have an influx of people into the area, they might bring children. And where are you going to put the children? You were asking before about the cost of things if we put density into the into the mix. And I'm going to ask you, where are you going to put the children? In what overcrowded school? You've cut some ESL, I understand, from going around and talking to people. You've also cut some special education. Teachers are leaving in mass because they aren't being well paid. If you get this many people in, where are you going to put the kids? I mean, that's something you really got to take into consideration. As for traffic patterns, I live there, so I can tell you there's a monthly accident at the corner of uh Louis Steven and uh um Morrisville Carpenter. So, I don't know how you're going to tastefully avoid that if you make things more dense.

That's up to you. But I'd like you to make some sense of this and think about what will be the reality if you do overbuild and no one comes to your field of dreams. Our next register speaker is Barry Pope. Uh, Mr. Mayor, council members, good evening.

My name is Barry Pope. I've been a resident of Magnolia Estates for 18 years. My wife and I enjoy the rural nature of the land surrounding our property, which is why we which is what attracted us to Magnolia to buy the house that we're in. My backyard backs up to the proposed apartments and commercial development requested in the amendment. I understand that Mr. Frell and Dr. Serder have land that has been in their respective families for several generations and I definitely respect that they have the right to develop their property. Uh, as [clears throat] you review this requested amendment, I ask the town council to ensure that the development meets the intent and spirit of the imaginary community plan, particularly the carpenter planning area comprehensive plan. As a member of the Magnolia Estates HOA board of directors, I would like to cover some areas of concern from our community. We believe that the comprehensive plan should guide development and not be rewritten to fit one project. When the reasonzoning reaches you, the council must decide whether it is consistent

with the comprehensive plan based on our community's understanding. Amending the plan first effectively preddecides the question in the applicant's favor before the resoning is ever reviewed on its merits. The amendment also removes the protection that exists to preserve Carpenters's historic character. The current Carpenter area plan states that single family housing is most preferable in this southern section that we're discussing. The redlinined amendment request deletes that language and inserts that multif family retail restaurant and office uses may be appropriate at the exact intersection which is near the historic Carpenter crossroads and adjacent to to the Good Hope Farm and Carpenter Park as we saw earlier. The amendment also allows apartments up to five stories or which would be essentially about 60 feet tall at roof line to be built. This amendment weakens the very safeguard the plan was written to provide. The intensity is incompatible with the surrounding area. Residential 40 permits, as you well know, roughly one dwelling per acre. And we understand it's not going to stay at that, but up to 320 dwellings plus 20,000 square ft of commercial development beside of an established lowdensity residential land, which is Magnolia Estates, is an order of magnitude change, not the appropriate scaled and or neighborhood scale development that the plan contemplates. Traffic also warrants some hard scrutiny. The applicant cites the widening of Marsville Carpenter Road as the justification for greater density. Before the plan is changed, the council should require and review a current traffic study quantifying the trips this project would add to the intersection. Currently, I can see from my house a constant stream of vehicles on Marsville Carpenter. So the traffic that this additional number of apartments and

commercial will generate is of special concern and we've already heard about the intersection there as regular accidents. The site is within the Jordan Lake watershed protection overlay district. So the in the intensification would substantially increase imperous surfaces and storm water runoff and that should be assessed also before the policy framework is loosened to allow it. The amendment undercuts his own stated purpose. Relocating historic structures to make room for higher density development is at odds with the plan's intent to protect Carpenters historical context, not just individual buildings, but what do you see? What how do you feel as a rural area? If you haven't been through there, I encourage you to go. It's a rural area. It's beautiful. And uh again, that's what drew us to Magnolia Estates. Um, neighbors whose property borders the land covered by the amendment are especially concerned since they may now in the future have fivestory apartment buildings visible from their backyards. There is a real and broad concern among Magnolia Estates neighbors about this proposed amendment to the Carpenter special planning area. I hope you will weigh it as a policy signal that it is. keep Carpenter area plans protections intact and continue to promote the rural and historic character of Carpenter. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you on this matter. Thank you.

No additional register speakers.

If you're in the audience and would like to speak at this public hearing, now is your opportunity.

testing. Okay, there we go. Hi, good evening, mayor and council members. It's so good to see everyone here. I grew up in and I currently live in the Carpenter area. So, it's a very

Can you give us your name, please?

Oh, Diana.

Thank [laughter] you. Um yeah, so I grew up in the area and so it's very special to me because of that. I have a lot of early memories and for me it it still feels connected to the history and character um which is what makes it unique and I believe in part because of the special planning protections in place here. I want to be I want to be clear sometimes I get too far away from the mic. Uh, I want to be clear that I understand Carrie is growing and that new housing is needed, but not every location is appropriate for every type of development. So, the question before you tonight is not whether Kerry should grow. The question is whether this area should be changed to accommodate a level of residential density and commercial development that is fundamentally different from what exists here today.

Can I get you to not hold the mic? Oh, you're driving the guys in the booth crazy.

Just you [laughter] have to just

I'm not very used to speaking with a mic.

You don't hear yourself.

Oh. Oh, okay. Wonderful. Thank you. Uh, thanks for letting me know that feedback. Act 39, it may be presented as a simple planning amendment, but it's not. It would remove protections that have helped preserve the character of Carpenter and the special planning area and open the door to a much more intensive development pattern in one of the community's most historic areas. There are many places in Kerry where

higher density housing makes sense. areas already planned for that intensity. Employment centers, existing urban development, Carpenter is different. So the choice to change the plan here is a defining one. Once this land is developed and carpenters character is changed, it's permanently altered. And what happens with Act 39 is going to shape this place for generations to come. So at this point, I also want to ask the audience something of the people here tonight. If you're here because you believe the historic character of Carpenter and the special planning area should be preserved, would you please raise your hand? Okay. Thank you. I also want to recognize that there are many members of the community who support preserving who could not be here tonight. So, please keep them in mind as well. Council members, there is significant concern in this community about permanently changing the character of Carpenter and the planning area. Future housing, as I mentioned, it can be built in many areas. Historic Carpenter, the special planning area, they exist in one place only. Act 39 and the feral solder resoning, they rise or fall together. So the question before you is whether the comprehensive plan should be changed for just this specific development. In my view, the plan should guide development, not be rewritten for a single project. I would ask you all to please keep that in mind as you consider Act 39. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else to speak at this public hearing?

Seeing no one, I'll close the public

hearing and open it up to council members for questions and comments. I guess my comments to the applicant kind of fall in line with the last speaker. I mean, we spent years creating a vision and I need an argument to abandon that vision and I haven't heard it yet. So, that's where I am. So, between now and decision time, you got to convince me of why we need to change our vision. And so,

it's council member Richard's district.

Thank you, Council Member Bonzel, and thank you, Mayor. Uh, I'd like to begin by thanking the applicant and their attorney. Ashley, where did you go? There you are. uh who very generously met with me and several of my colleagues to discuss this application at length and I'll repeat what I shared in the meeting which was thanking the applicants who have deep roots in Kerry for being such good stewards of this land of adjacent land. my family is a more recent addition to the community and so we've moved into a changed landscape from what it looked like when your families were here and uh we we appreciate that mindful growth and I appreciate the uh residents who have reached out to me and have been very pragmatic and have recognized that this is really not a decision about if this area develops but how this area develops. And I I did share with the applicant at our meeting, I share many of the concerns that the residents have shared here about uh five stories, if that height is appropriate for this area, if uh um retail is appropriate for this area. But something I've been thinking a lot since I had that meeting with the applicant and we talked about this a little bit and my colleagues and I uh my colleagues joined me in this conversation was more of a philosophical argument about the value of long range planning documents. And what we as current leaders and council members owe

it to past leaders in the community who have made these decisions who have thought very carefully about uh what is appropriate for this area already. And you know, I what I've thought about is how we balance being a adaptive council that responds to changing circumstances because really every resoning application is considering a change. You know, the land is being used one way and we're considering using it in a different way. But we return to Imagine Carrie to help us do that in a comprehensive way, to help us do that in a thoughtful way. You know, in fact, we just had a resoning application in Weston where we said, "Oh, we wish actually that we were had a little more guidance for this area and the timing didn't work out that that guidance is probably coming after the resoning." In this case, we already have that guidance. Um, you know, so I I think to change it requires serious scrutiny. Um, requires a really compelling reason. And mayor, I agree. I have not heard that really compelling reason for changing circumstances. Um, and it it just comes down to the merits of a of a long range plan. And in this case, I mean, the the name sort of gives it away, a special planning area. The community has already weighed in, has already given it serious consideration. It's it's almost a letter from the past to us and it says, "Dear future leaders, we've thought about this very carefully. Please take these factors into consideration when you are faced with this future decision and that future decision is now." And so I I think to the extent that imagine carry is our guiding document in any decision, it requires respecting that precedent and respecting those decisions that have been made. unless there is a very

compelling reason and I don't know that I have I've heard that for this application.

Other thoughts, questions?

Um I I'm just going to um pancake on to what you said. Um and I do want to address um a couple of things since we were here on the council in 2017 when I imagine Carrie came up. So it wasn't 20 years ago, it was 10 years ago when we re-established and reaffirmed the our commitment to the special planning area along with all the residents. So the Magnolia residents bought and built those houses knowing full well what was expected in that area. Um so protecting historic properties and this their setting is absolutely important. Um that vision of Carpenter as a preserve rural crossroads is important um not just because of the history but also because it's a context sensitive infill. We now know like you said we have a guiding document that says what we want here or actually what previous councils and previous residents because thousands of people weighed in on the imagined carry plan. They told us what they want and they weighed in. I'm also concerned that we have I'm a density lover and [laughter] I also understand where that density is appropriate and density in commercial and retail can can be um done if it context sensitive to where it resides. Would a neighborhoodlike type of retail be appropriate there? Absolutely. I can see kids going, you know, across the street to Carpenter Park and playing in Fly Fly Home, fly

away home and then coming across the street and having ice cream. Sure. But does it need to be a fivetory apartment building? I I'm not there. Um and and one last set of of comments. I really took to heart what the um residents have said and what others have said who have emailed us. I feel like um the possible reasonzoning is driving the planning amendment. If there's a reason for for a planning amendment change, it should likely stand alone. But we know what's driving this planning amendment, it's a request to do a particular reasoning. So, if that's the case, and we've done this in the past, I would like them both to come together to council so we know what we're getting. Um, look, I I'm open to more homes. We desperately need more homes. um and and maybe even some additional height, two, three stories. But I don't want to push all of our our growth to places just because that's where we can build. Um I really take seriously that the carpenter plans promise that neighborhood south would look and feel like a transition. If we do that type of height, it doesn't look and feel like a transition. So, I'm where the mayor is and also council member Richards. I really need to see the why before I um would would be able to jump on board to this.

Other thoughts?

I'll just say one thing. Um I'm with one of the speakers who said the density is good, Kerry is growing, which is amazing. We need more housing. We need more choices. And this is a great location. Um I when

I moved to North Carolina um we actually rented a house in Carpenter uh carpenter area. So I know that area very well and lot I know a lot of families there and um I just feel like with this proposal and Ashley I know you've tried very hard to meet me and because of certain circumstances I could not but um my initial thought on this is that because of um the fivetory kind of lacks the transition with the single family homes and um I'm a very big believer of having good transitions So, um, I personally feel like it would be best if you could go back and take the plan and kind of rework this, but that's where I am.

Other comments?

I have a question for my more seasoned colleagues since that's what we decided [laughter] a while back. Call you season.

Seasoned. When have you seen amendments when or have you seen amendments come to you in this context where I mean I think what you just said probably told us that you're not used to seeing it

like this. I always want to know

what you know I will say it a thousand times if I feel like I need to. But we shouldn't do things just because that's the way they've always been done. And I also like to know context like what are other cases where you've seen something similar or is this a brand new idea?

So I can give my opinions.

Go ahead.

So before the Kerry community plan, you had a land development ordinance and and that was an ordinance that was created for development uh by the council and staff. And so sometimes there were legitimate reasons to change that and we did. So we constantly had they came in pairs, you know, the resoning and the LDO change. And now to me, this is we

spent three years creating the Kerry community plan. If you were involved in that, we went around and did these little public meetings everywhere, met with business leaders, met with all kinds of people. And then we had all this data and we had 30 citizens boil it down to decision points. And all this process took three years. And it gets back to why would we change the vision? It really better to me it really better be a good reason to change that vision because we spent a lot of time and effort to create that vision and that was citizen generated. So

and we did have comprehensive plan amendments quite a bit that were changed. I don't know about any special planning areas. The only one I can think of is we actually put on hold and actually um said, "No, we don't want to do any resonings until we have a plan for the Eastern Gateway." We had multiple requests for land at the Eastern Gateway, which is where Fenton is right now, and we didn't have a plan for that area. So, um many of those fell through because we didn't have a plan. Now, then we had a plan and then something aligned to that plan. Oh, comprehensive plan amendments. We used to get quite a bit, but they were generally with resoning.

That's something different.

I really appreciate in addition to the all the work that applicant has put in the feedback that we've gotten pretty quickly from from residents and the idea where you can think, well, it's no big deal. um you are just saying this is something that could be and then you have the opportunity later to say no we don't want that but we're making an a if we chose to we would be making an amendment to the to the community plan the car community plan and then then it becomes very easy for I mean then how do you say

no to a five-story building with retail because you just said that it's appropriate it for it to be there. So, I mean, I wrote down I tried to put, you know, like actual words for things I've heard, you know, the community vision and the unique rural character and and and somebody had mentioned, you know, the context has changed. I think it was um Ashley, the context has changed and it has the contact text has changed for everything in Kerry. So I I I don't necessarily think that's super unique to this area, though I know there's, you know, changes to an intersection. So what I'm really struggling with is has the context changed enough to change the vision? And um I'm and council member Craig, I might add too, I haven't heard that the plan didn't understand at the time that the context was going to change. I believe it knew that the landscape was going to change and still I mean that's almost the purpose of it is recognizing so I don't think it's an ignorance on the part of the uh you know the plan you know the the people that contributed to the plan I think it was explicitly knowing because density is coming because this is going to look different because the street is going to get wider we still affirm that this is what this area should look like so almost because it's changed, not in spite of

special planetarium.

Council member Craig, could you repeat your last sentence? I feel

Yeah, it's like the context changed enough to has Has has the context changed enough that we would change the vision?

Yes, I I totally agree with that and especially for the imagine carry last time um council member Richard and Mayor Proan Bush, we had a meeting with the applicant. I really appreciate the applicant uh provided with decked

parking with the apartment um to look at is just itself is really a lot of investment because most of the um apartments they won't spend decked parking but I asked another question to our staff Heather does it match to our imagine carry so that's I got the answer today shows they're going to change amend the imaginary um uh policy. So that's uh especially with the residents come here and speak up. I feel I'm learning because last time our meeting I was like I don't have any context in history and like mayor said how much we have put effort into this imagine carry plan and same as uh um council member Craig said if we need to change there need to be enough reason like the why we need to change uh same here I don't have enough why to change this but I still feel um the generations of the applicants have lived in Kerry. They want they are trying to make Kerry they're for a better future. I I think they are trying to make the uh plan successful but still we need more um reason somewhere. Yeah, we need to work on that.

Uh from the residents I I feel we have so many uh written comments here. So I have to think about it carefully and especially I feel um I was told by many people that government is slow and now I totally understand why why we need to slow because every decision we made it will impact the future of Kerry. We want this new council want to make better decision for the future residents. I think one additional point that we're

all making here is that the spa um absolutely anticipated the Morrisville Carpenter realignment that's actually mentioned in the plan. So the fact that to use that as a reason for higher density doesn't necessarily make sense because the spa was created in order to protect that historic district. So, we already knew the road alignment was coming um and it would have a a profound impact on the carpenter area, which is part of the reason why the spa was created. So, yes, there is more traffic than there was before the realignment, but that was part of the reason for creating the special planning area.

Okay. Um so, this is going to the planning and zoning board for their review and recommendation. This is early in the process. So the planning and zoning board is going to see this in a couple of months or so and so it won't come back to council for a for a decision for three four months probably or longer. Uh so there's plenty of time for things to change. I would encourage everybody to work with the applicant

and work if you have questions make sure you ask. Uh Katie Dry will know the latest and greatest information. So if you contact her uh she can tell you what's going on. she'll be in contact with the applicant and vice versa with the citizens. Uh so I want to thank you all for coming here to speak [snorts] and those that are watching us streaming, thank you for your feedback as well. And again, we're early in the process and we'll move uh to the planning and zoning board advisory group next and they will make a recommendation in just a few months. So thank you. All right, we're going to move to discussion items now. Our first discussion item is 2501 Brandevelier Lane. Principal planner

Rachel Smith will present this item and council may take action. Miss Smith.

Hello again. This is a request to reszone a halfacre site located at 6708 Bandelier Lane. You held a public hearing for this request in September of last year and council may take action tonight. The property is located northwest of the intersection of Bandelier and Sand Sanders Grove Lane and is vacant. As the property is in the extr territorial jurisdiction and not the corporate boundary, annexation would be required to connect to carry utilities. Annexation is not requested at this time. This site is located within the carpenter historic uh historic carpenter special planning area as well shown here in red and also within the national register of historic district historic places carpenter historic district shown in blue and the site does not contain any historic resources. The current zoning is office research and development and the applicant requests resoning to residential 20 conditional use to allow a single detached dwelling. The Jordan Lake Wershed Protection Overlay District will remain. The proposed zoning conditions include limiting the use to one detached dwelling and associated accessory uses and there will be only one driveway which will adhere to access management standards. Vinyl and aluminum sighting are prohibited building materials as written. This would apply to any structure on the site. For the principal structure, the zoning conditions require a continuous brick or brick veneered foundation, a minimum roof pitch of 412, a front porch, garage doors located to the side or rear, and any future additions will only be permitted to the side or the rear of the principal structure, and shall not exceed the height. In the R20 district,

the LDO permits a maximum height of 35 feet with some allowance for additional height via excess setbacks. At the town council public hearing, there were no speakers and no written comments. There were no questions or comments from the council and no changes were made to the request following the public hearing. The planning and zoning board reviewed this request at their November meeting. Some board members had comments that there may be opportunities to better align the fit of the new building with the historic district. The board found the request consistent with the imaginary community plan by a vote of six to two to address the comments made by the planning board. The applicant worked with historic preservation staff to add three additional conditions related to the principal structure, including that the foundation shall be brick, there will be a front porch, and any future additions will only be permitted to the side and rear and will not exceed the height of the home. The request is generally consistent with applicable imaginary community plan policies, including those for historic preservation, carpenter, special planning area, and the move chapter. Staff recommends approval of the proposed resoning. This concludes my presentation and I'm available to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you, Miss Smith. I'll open up to council members questions, comments, or motion if you're ready. My my only comment is I really applaud the applicant for making the changes that were requested by the planning sort um board. It that shows the kind of thing that we want to see when when something comes before council we get feedback.

It's so prescriptive. I can picture the house.

There you [laughter] go.

In my head.

There you go. So with that, I'll make a motion that we approved our 20 CU.

Thank you. Um there's a motion at your seat. Oh, very specific. Okay.

Yes.

Does somebody have Oh, here it is. Um, make a motion that we adopt the following documents attached to the online agenda. The statement of consistency for 25016708 Bandelier Lane and the resoning ordinance for 2516708 Bandelier Lane.

There's a motion

second

and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Miss Smith.

Thank you.

We now move to our next discussion item. Independent auditor selection and contract award finance director Kimberly Branch will present this item and council may take action.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Tonight, I am here to discuss the town's external audit selection process and present staff's recommendation for the town's independent audit services contract. Staff is requesting council's approval to enter into a new agreement with the recommended audit firm. As you all will recall, we had an initial update on this process during our Q3 meeting on May the 14th. In [clears throat] accordance with K's financials um in with Car's financial reporting and operations policy, the town evaluates its external audit services at least every 5 years. Fiscal year 2025 was the final year of our current contract, making this the appropriate time to conduct a competitive review of our audit services. North Carolina state law requires local governments to obtain an independent financial audit each year, and that contract must be approved by the local government commission. The purpose of the audit is for the external auditor to determine whether the town's financial statements are fairly presented in all material respects and prepared in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles, also known as

GAP.

[clears throat]

Also, North Carolina statute, um, according to North Carolina statute, the governing board is responsible for Let me go back. [laughter]

Runaway slugs.

There we go. [clears throat] Okay, my apologies. Um, also, according to state statute, the governing board is responsible for selecting the town's independent auditor. As such, the independent auditor reports directly to the council, helping ensure the auditor's independence and accountability. It is important to understand that the auditor's opinion is not a rating of the town's financial health or financial condition. The auditor's opinion applies specifically to the town's basic financial statements and related disclosures. It is also important to note that an annual financial audit is not designed to guarantee the detection of fraud. To summarize the process, the town received four proposals from qualified audit firms in response to an RFP that was issued in March. An evaluation team reviewed each proposal using established criteria, including the firm's qualifications and experience, proposed audit approach, staffing and resources, and overall cost. Following the initial evaluation, the two highest ranked firms were invited to participate in finalist interviews. These interviews provided staff with an opportunity to further assess each firm's technical expertise, understanding of the town's needs, commitment to client service, and overall fit as the town's independent audit partner. The audit review committee identified Cherry Beckard and Malden and Jenkins as the two finalist firms in the selection process. Both firms demonstrated experience in governmental account auditing and understanding of local

government financial reporting requirements and resources necessarily necessary to serve an organization of car's size and complexity. This chart summarizes the Q the key considerations evaluated by the review committee throughout the selection process. Staff is recommending Cherry Beckard based on his extensive experience auditing North Carolina local governments, strong understanding of town's operations and financial environment, and consistent record of delivering quality audit services in compliance with required deadlines and reporting standards. Based on questions and feedback received from council throughout this process, the review committee also discussed opportunities to obtain additional independent evaluations beyond the scope of an annual audit financial audit. These services could include financial condition assessments, fraud risk assessments, internal control reviews, and internal audit reviews. Unlike the annual audit, these types of engagements provide a deeper evaluation of financial practices, controls, risk, and policy compliance. Upon council's approval, staff will finalize and execute the audit contract with Cherry Beckard. The contract will then be submitted to the local government commission for the required approval. And in coming months, staff will return to council with options for additional independent financial and operational reviews that would be separate from the annual audit. So with that, I close with a recommendation. Um we are asking that council appoints Cherry Beckard as car's auditor for fiscal years 26, 2027, and 2028 with an option to renew for up to an additional two years. Thank you.

Thank you, Miss Branch. I'd open it up

to council members for questions or comments

or a motion. You're right.

When we discussed this before, was it in a It was in our work session, right?

Extensively.

We pretty extensive. I don't want I'm not going to try to repeat everything, but thank you for the extra.

You're welcome.

scrutiny. I I do want to mention in case this is the first anybody's hearing of this that we did ask staff to investigate additional services that the auditor auditing firm could supply to us which would be um additional scrutiny to

the money coming in and out. Right. So I look forward to to seeing what those potential things are.

Kimberly, I apologize for putting you on spot, but what date uh what which work session was that? It was at the quarterly. It was actually at the quarter 3 May 14th.

May 14th.

So people can go back to that recording and they can listen to

see the detail. Absolutely.

I love that you remember that. Thank you. That's impressive.

That's impressive. [laughter]

Been a lot of meetings.

Those specific services. Um, for anyone who's watching who doesn't want to watch the whole May 14th that you have on the other additional services, they truly cover what our collective concerns are and what our what our residents concerns are, you know, being able to look for fraud, being able to align with our fund balance, our financial conditions. So, I'm really so thankful that you worked with Cherry Becker to add those services or to add the idea of those services as we move forward um so that we can have that kind of scrutiny by an outside organization. So, thank you for doing this.

We ready for a motion? Make a motion that we appoint Cherry Becker LLP as our auditor for uh fiscal years for the next three years, two 2026, 2027, and 2028 with an option to renew or up to an additional two years.

I'll second.

There's a motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously.

Thank you, Miss Branch.

Thank you. We now move to our third discussion item, amendment to delegation of authority and interim town manager Russ Overton will present the item and council may take action. Uh thank you mayor. I'll uh briefly go through uh the changes proposed to the delegation of authority and then start out by reminding you that four council members in December initiated this item and that to keep it informal, Sera, Lori, um Carissa and Michelle. So thanks for bringing that item item forward. We had a work session on April the 16th if anyone wants to go back and watch that. Uh where you all had a great discussion um some of these slides are the same tonight regarding these authorities and then what you wanted to see changed. So tonight,

but I think this item was initiated on January 6th. Yes. Um and the work session.

All right. Well, I'm giving you extra credit by saying it was December. It may have been.

It was on both of our lists though.

Correct. It was on two separate list. part of it was

a little bit of background um is obviously this is kind of routed in state law. I'll [snorts] let um Lisa Glover answer any of those questions should you have any, but basically it's a resolution um instead of a policy um because of that state law. Um that law just kind of stipulates uh and requiring what your delegation of authority is as to what goes before the council as approval. And to go through a little bit of the details of this resolution, um it it details what council authorities are and what further is can be delegated to the manager. So I'll highlight that with a difference, but then we have a standard procedure and an internal standard procedure that dictates how staff um operationalizes this structure. So you delegate things to me um or you have them yourselves and then standard procedure 146 further delegates um approvals to various staff. Um looking at the last 10 years um there have been 10 changes um over roughly 11

years actually and that you know averages about one per year. I'm not going to go through all of them but go highlight some going back to 2015 and um I'm just going to slowly click through that we did go through these in a little bit greater detail at the work session. Um the current state of delegation of authority to contracts is listed here. Um obviously we've all learned and there's been plenty discussed about the manager's unlimited spending authority that has always been part of the delegation of authority and it is only allowed um if funds are appropriated. Contracts should only be signed if there's efficient um sufficient appropriation for general contracts. There are statutory requirements uh for pre- audit process essentially verifying that there's there is money in the bank to cover these expenses. Some roles that have pre- audit function um are the finance director um the purchasing manager and the assistant director of finance. This just highlights some of those amounts. I'll go through the changes in detail in just a second. There's also current um state of delegation authority for real estate. um that's highlighted here. And probably the most prominent thing of note is that council does not have any um authority in this. So let's get to what um the proposed changes are and what this option is before you tonight. We would adjust the spending authority for contracts, reduce the manager or deput deputy manager's authority to only go up to or be limited to a threshold of $750,000. It adds a reporting requirement for all contracts above $300,000 to be reported to council quarterly. Um, in addition, non-C capital project real estate transactions over $300,000 would also come before the council for approvals. Um so just kind of highlight that in here um what the changes are and specifically you'll see in the changes in the area of what council has the authority of and then the limit of

$750,000 to the town manager and deputy town manager. Um so in 2026 to give you a little bit of background or um what you could expect to see be coming before council with this change in 2026 there have been 26 contracts e ex executed exceeding uh the $750,000 threshold. So those would now be coming to you um starting in after July 1st. Um we'd expect that to be the same um in next year. There have been five construction bid awards that have also gone to council during that time. So next steps would be to uh update the associated standard procedure. If we've got to make some updates to tier approval requisition process in Oracle, there would certainly be finance uh training of staff and we develop a um staff report template uh for coming to you and then we would start reporting uh to the council of anything above $300,000 at quarter 1 financial report. So with that, staff recommends that council adopt the revised resolution delegating authority to negotiate award, approve, and execute contracts and other instruments.

So I just have one ask of you, could you give the audience or people watching that did not watch the work session an example of why you need authority that we're giving you? What would you need it for? um specifically the manager or for in

or director or any why do they need that authority

um to some degree to allow um work to be done um I don't want to

for example

for example it could be someone in the parks department uh might need water um or it could be public works or something like that but you establish thresholds that um that give someone um that authority at a certain point

to emphasize that so if you have a water man break you don't want to have the council convene and have a six-hour notice time to convene and then approve it so we can fix the water. U so that's

why we have that authority. Examples like that. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Sorry if I

Oh no. Yeah. I mean because some people are going to go wait a minute the last guy spent all this money.

So other questions, thoughts, comments? We have discussed a lot this topic. [laughter]

We have talked a lot about this over the months.

I can put a motion.

Okay.

Uh I'm sorry.

The was anticipating a question.

Um I re um I put a motion that council adopts the revised resolution delegation authority to negotiate award approve and execute contracts and other instruments.

There's a motion. Second

and a second discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Mr. Overton.

The council will now go into close session and I would entertain a motion to do so.

Those pursuant to GS1 Oh, did someone else want

No, go ahead. I didn't know they were at the seat. Go ahead. Pursuant to GS43 318 11A13 and6, I move that we hold a close session to consult with attorneys employed by andor retained by the town in order to preserve the attorney client privilege between the attorneys and the town and to prevent the disclosure of information that is made privileged or confidential and pursuant to the laws of the state or not considered a public record within the meaning of chapter 132 of the general statute or is privileged and confidential pursuant to GS47. 7646 and consider the qualifications, competence, performance, character, fitness, conditions of employment or appointment or conditions of initial employment of one or more individual public officers or employees.

There's a motion

second and a second. Discussion all in favor, please say I. Any oppose? Motion passes and the council will go into close session at 1035.

Which one?

We'll reconvene our meeting. We have concluded our business. I would entertain a motion to adjurnn.

Motion to adjurnn.

Second.

Motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. I.

Any oppose? Motion carries. We are adjourned.

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