Regular Meeting

call to order the September 24th meeting of the Kerry Town Council. As you may have noticed, we're missing some council members this evening. Miss Richards is going to be joining us remotely tonight as she is not feeling well. And Miss Bonsel is unable to attend. I want to check and make sure that Miss Richards can hear us. Miss Richards, can you hear us?

I can. I hope you can hear me. And my apologies for not being with you in person. Thank you for accommodating me tonight.

And thank you for not sharing [laughter]

not sharing your sickness.

So, we're

happy to do my part. So, we're going to start with the ceremonial opening and I'll call on Council Member Craig for that.

Good evening, everyone. There are many important observances that take place throughout September. Earlier this month, I had the opportunity to speak about suicide prevention month and the importance of mental health, reducing stigma, and making sure people know that they are not alone. Tonight, I'd like to recognize another important observance. September 15th through October 15th is National Hispanic Heritage Month and I want to take a few minutes to recognize and celebrate the Hispanic and Latino members of our Kerry community. Kerry is home to about 192,000 residents and just under roughly under 9% of our community identifies as Hispanic or Latino. These individuals are our students and the teachers, staff, and others who support them and care for our schools. They are our small business owners and employees, our parents and grandparents, our co-workers, our neighbors, our friends and our community leaders. They contribute to Carrie every day and they help make our community the vibrant and welcoming place that it is. I [snorts] don't know if I've mentioned this before, but starting last year, I began

teaching English as a second language at the same school in Kerry that I've been at I've been associated with for more than 10 years. So, every day I have the privilege of working with multilingual learners and families and seeing firsthand the many cultures, languages, and experiences that our families bring to our schools and to Carrie. Hispanic Heritage Month is an opportunity to recognize not only the rich cultures and traditions of the Hispanic and Latino community, but also the people who are building businesses, educating our children, raising families, serving their neighbors, and helping shape Car's future. It also reminds us about something important about Carrie. Some Hispanic and Latino families have called Carrie home for generations, while others have recently chosen Carrie as their place to build lives, raise their families, pursue their dreams, and contribute to our community. More than one quarter of K's residents were born in another country. Together, these stories are part of what makes Kerry the diverse and welcoming community that it is. And I hope that as we celebrate Hispanic Heritage Month, we also reaffirm something that I believe is at the heart of Carrie, that is every person who calls Carrie home should know that they belong here, they are valued, and that their contributions matter. Carrie is a community for everyone. You probably can't see behind my computer, but I'm wearing a t-shirt tonight under my blazer just as um it has the flags of some of the um countries um of Hispanic and Latino origin. Um just as when I display flags of the countries that my students families identify with in my classroom, when I wear this shirt, my students get excited about seeing flags from places that are special to their families and to their classmates families. And this evening, as we say the pledge of allegiance, I ask that you pause to reflect on what it means to be a nation and one community that truly cares for

all of our people. Thank you. And please join me for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] [snorts]

First order of business this evening is to adopt the agenda. We have a suggested amendment to the agenda. Since we are missing two council members for a vote, I would recommend that we take item three out off discussion. uh from this agenda and move it to our next agenda which will be sometime in October. Um and that would be my recommendation and if you feel uh inclined to do so I would entertain a motion.

Uh so moved with the recommended amendment.

Second.

There's a motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor please say I.

I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. We have no recognitions, reports, and presentation. That's what surprised me. So, we're going right to public speaks out. And we've included instructions for speaking at at this forum online and on the printed agenda. There are three opportunities to participate in public speaks out through written comments, by calling in this evening, or by attending here in person tonight. And if you are here in person and would like to speak at public speaks out, I would ask that you take a seat in the roads to my right that are now highlighted. Public speaks out speakers have up to three minutes each for their comments and may speak on any town related topic as long as it's not a public hearing. And that works to your advantage because you get more time

at a public hearing. The threeminut time limit will be enforced. Not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers. We have a timer on the podium. It'll start off with a green light. When it turns yellow, that means we have 30 seconds remaining. When it flashes red, that's the point. I'm going to interrupt you, not to be rude, but to be fair to all of our speakers. I would ask that speakers be respectful in their comments and direct comments to the entire council and not to an individual. And I thank everyone in the audience for understanding and respecting that this is a business meeting. Please do not applaud, make remarks from your seats, use props, or do anything else that me may distract from the meeting. So now is the time for public speaks out and I'll call on our town clerk to share the number of written comments and call on any registered speakers.

We received five written comments. These comments have been emailed to council prior to the meeting, provided to council upon arrival, and also attached to the online agenda. And we have two registered speakers, Emma Kate Burns and Nashant Shaw. [snorts]

Okay, you go first. Can I get you to move to your left? Thank you.

Hi. You may remember me. My name is [clears throat] Emma Kate Burns. I am the government relations director for the American Heart Association. Um, and I believe that it was removed for the ordinance for tonight, but I will still um speak in support of the smokefree ordinance that you all will consider at your next meeting. Um, I'm here today to

express the American Heart Association's strong support for the proposed amendments to carry smoke-free air ordinance. Um, as you have seen throughout the past few weeks, the American Heart Association is not alone in our support for this proposal. You've heard from a broad cross-section of the Kerry community that includes students. You're going to hear from a physician in a few minutes here, public health advocates, and more. and their voices have reflected a common belief that clean air in our public spaces is something the residents of Kerry deserve. At its core, this ordinance is about protecting public health. There is no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke or aerosol from tobacco products. Whether someone is eating dinner, attending a community event, or enjoying one of Car's vibrant gathering spaces, residents should not have to choose between participating in their community and protecting public health. We recognize that some concerns have been raised regarding the potential economic impact of these policies, but fortunately, smokefree and aerosol-free policies have consistently been shown to have no negative impact on hospitality revenue. [snorts] Following North Carolina's implementation of smokefree bars and restaurants in 2010, the North Carolina Lodging and Restaurant Association reported no negative impact to businesses, with some even reporting a positive impact. Um, in addition, smoke-free environments are often more attractive to families, visitors, and customers who prefer these spaces free of aerosol and um, secondhand exposure from tobacco. [snorts] The American Heart Association believes that local governments play a critical role in advancing public health. Kerry has long been recognized as a town that values innovation, quality of life, and the well-being of its residents. Upholding the town's smoke-free ordinance and bringing it into the 20th century with these amendments will continue that tradition and demonstrate that carries has a commitment to protecting the health of current and future generations. So again, on behalf of the American Heart Association, I urge you to vote yes at the next meeting um regarding the

smokefree air ordinance amendments. Thank you.

Thank you. Good evening. Um, members of the Kerry Town Council, thank you so much for the opportunity to be here today. My name is Nishant Shaw and I'm a preventive cardiologist at Duke Health as well as a clinical investigator at the Duke Clinical Research Institute. Uh, and I'm here to respectfully also ask um to support our adoption of proposing updates to the smoke-free air ordinance along with your consideration to the change in the language. Unfortunately, in our country, one person dies of heart disease every 36 seconds. And as a cardiologist that also lives in Kerry and cares for this community, I unfortunately see the effects of tobacco use every day on people's cardiovascular health, not to mention lung cancer, lung health, cancer beyond the carton lungs, and other consequences of tobacco smoke. While significant progress has been made in reducing smoking rates, which is lovely, we still need to do a better job as heart disease is the number one cause of morbidity and mortality, not only in North Carolina, but in the US and across the world. I'm also very concerned about the effects of secondhand smoke. more and more literature is coming out showing the adverse effects of secondhand smoke not only to older individuals with other health related issues but also our children who are growing and and bodies going through a lot of changes. Um there's no safe level of exposure to secondhand smoke and in fact secondhand smoke emissions are more than just water vapor. They are carcinogenic. They have heavy metals uh and they have ultrafine particles that can lead to a lot of abnormalities. I'm also concerned about the optics of what smoking in public spaces looks like especially for children who are growing up and trying to understand you know what their identities are like. it. The role modeling behavior of smoking that leads to adverse health outcomes has

been shown to lead to more smoking and by changing uh the way we approach that in our public spaces may help better role model to the future generations. As a resident of Kerry uh and what I love about Kerry is it's long recognized as a community that prioritizes health, quality of life and forward thinking. And the current smoking ordinance was adopted nearly two decades ago before ecigarettes became widespread and before we fully understood many of the risks associated with secondhand smoke as well. So updating the ordinance is a very practical and evidence-based step that reflects current science and current public health practices as well as current guidelines. So by adopting these ordinance changes, Carrie will certainly help ensure that residents, workers, and visitors in particular also our children can enjoy cleaner air in healthier public spaces. So, thank you for your time, uh, your leadership, of course, and your commitment to the health and well-being of Carrie. Thank you.

Thank you.

No additional registered speakers.

If you're in the audience who would like to speak at public speaks out, now is your opportunity. And I would invite our first speaker forward. Uh, good evening, mayor and council. Jason Baron with Morning Star Law Group here on behalf of the applicant in 22REZ20, which is the first uh discussion item that you have on your agenda, the Austin Commons resoning. Uh just want to update you on where this case has been since you last saw it. It's been here a couple of times uh previously the public hearing uh a while ago and then most recently this year. And there were questions that were raised at that meeting. Before I get into those changes, just want to remind you this is a truly vertically integrated structure parked mixeduse development. This is is there's going to be residential developed over retail. I believe it's the first develop development of its type uh for the most part in the Austin area that is kind of [snorts] embodying the vision of what Austin was

supposed to be from day one. It's creating what we believe will be a more urban environment and the conditions that are associated with the case and the commitments that have been made are going to ensure that with respect to the questions that we received at the last meeting and the changes that have been made. Uh there were questions related to environmental commitments associated with the case. I just want to remind you there's a solar commitment related to the the pod one phase which is the car wash. Uh there are six EV charging stations in each of pods two through pod five. And then uh the last environmental commitment I want to talk about are Silva [clears throat] cells. Um and council member Con Johnson, I believe you may have put on your Facebook page at one point talking about what a tremendous advantage silver cells are in terms of preserving uh the the livelihood of trees that are planted in projects. Every single street tree that is implemented as part of this development that's along a public street will have a silver cell associated with it. So those trees will be able to achieve their maturity. They will grow to full maturity, provide critical shade in these areas. Um so we're happy to make that commitment. Uh Council Member Craig, you had a question about minimum residential commitment, just making sure that residential would be delivered with the site. An update that's been made is committing to 500 residential units as a minimum. The maximum remains what it was, but there is a minimum of 500 units. And last, but certainly not least, there's been a lot of discussion of phasing associated with the delivery of the car wash and making sure that that vertically integrated mixeduse design, which is really the key component. It's the core of the development would be delivered so that a car wash wouldn't be standalone. We have previously had, excuse me, the car wash tied to just the pod two development. We have since updated that to add pod three as well. So both sides of that primary entrance of the development will now come out of the ground at the same time that the car wash is. So we're happy to answer any questions you all may have when you get to that item and we

hopefully uh will receive your support tonight. Thank you.

Thank you. Next speaker, [clears throat] please.

Hello.

Could you move to your left? Thank you. Right here. Hello. Most of you know who I am. My name is Matthew Grankkey. I have lived here since 1992, so quite a while. Um, I'm here to throw my support behind making the Transportation Working Group into the Transportation and Mobility Committee. I think that is a very good idea and I'm all for it. Um, I think it's very important, and I've mentioned this personally to many council members before, that our government be proactive instead of reactive. um especially in light of recent tragedies that have happened, I think it's important that we have a formal committee established that can uh look out for these kinds of issues and make sure that they are prevented. And as someone who bikes a lot around town and puts a lot of adults and children on bikes through the bicycle project that I run, um it's definitely an important issue to me. So, I really hope you guys move forward with it. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Good evening everyone. I'll have a comment very similar to the person before me. I'm Chuck Bryan. I'm a Carrie resident and I'm a board member of Carry On Bikes, a bike advocacy organization here at Kerry Pedestrian. Also, I also support the change of this working group to a committee. Um even though any group by any title and structure can uh perform the functions of what is desired in this committee, terminology such as a title is very important because it not only shapes the uh it primarily shapes the perception of the significance of a

group. And we believe that uh if the council is serious about engaging with citizens uh to hear about what they want uh for safe transport across the town uh this is a very good step to take. So thank you very much and I support we our whole group supports this. Thank you.

Thank you.

Next speaker please. Good evening members of the town council. Mr. Mayor, my name is Elliot Tardiff, Kerry resident since 2014, and it's a privilege to speak with you all this evening. I want to take my time to talk about the word no. It is a word as a parent of two boys I'm quite familiar with and I'm sure you who are parents in the days are quite familiar with too. It's also a word that I am happy to see this town council using with greater regularity and to the benefit of the town's people. I want to document these uses for the record, some of them at least, and ask for more. Recently, you said no for now to data center development in this town. This is commendable. Many words and a few. Data centers have a lot of work to do to be better corporate citizens and neighbors. Speaking of, when the ALPR companies come calling, you know what to say to them, too. In recent days, you've signaled that you will say no to selling the town land near Kerry Elementary, which is also commendable. You also said no for now to redeveloping the town hall complex into some mixeduse monstrosity. This is also to your credit. While said to individuals, I'll go on the record here and state my belief that the redevelopment of downtown Kerry has been mismanaged. Too much residential and commercial intensity in too small a space. This proposal would have been the coup d'et

grfully, no. Keep it on paper and out of reality. Further, as the recent water mane break has laid bare, this town isn't planning its infrastructure ahead for the future. It's trying to keep up with what's already here and it's not batting a thousand. I urge you to say no more often to new residential development in this town, at least until you have a complete understanding of what's here because right now you don't. Finally, consider a salary adjustment as discussed in a recent committee meeting. Not until the stasis are full-time employees of this town. No. Again, the business of this large dynamic town, one of the most desirable in the country, requires full-time attention from its leadership. This deis should reform itself accordingly. In some, thank you for no and more of this, please. Thank you for your time. Next speaker, please. Good evening, council members. My name is Sad Khan. I'm a junior at Green Hope High School, a proud Kerry resident, and a member of the PO Youth Empowerment Team. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak in support of this tobaccof free ordinance. As a student, I've seen how vaping has become increasingly normalized among young people. Students may start because their friends are doing it, because they want to fit in, or because they believe vaping is harmless. What begins as a curiosity can develop can develop into a nicotine addiction. That is why the spaces where young people gather matter a lot. Children, families, and friends should be able to enjoy parks, greenways, and recreational areas, community events

without exposure to heck, secondhand smoke or vaping aerosols. The Wake County tobacco control dashboard shows the many municipals across our county and have different levels of tobaccof free protections. Some communities have already adopted stronger 100% tobaccof free policies. This gives Kerry an opportunity to strengthen its protections as well. But I want to emphasize one thing. 100% tobaccof free means no designated smoking or vaping areas in our shared outdoor spaces. Designated areas still allow tobacco use in places where children and families gather and they can continue to normalize these products around young young people. This is not about controlling what adults choose to do in their personal lives. It is about establishing a clear standard for the public spaces as we all share. So tonight, I respectfully ask you all to support the 100% tobaccof free outdoor public spaces in Kerry without designated smoking or vaping areas. Let's all choose cleaner hair, healthier spaces, and a stronger future for Kerry. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you.

Next speaker, please. Good evening, mayor and council members. My name is Mansiv Sho. I'm a a senior at Greenh Hope High School and I'm also here to speak about the town's smokefree and tobaccof free air ordinance. I've spoken about this ordinance at various other council meetings and I'm back because the kids in this town are counting on this ordinance. I'm here with the PO youth empowerment team, but more than that, I'm here for the kids in Kerry who want to grow up in a smoke-free environment. I live here, too. So, it's my hometown, and I want it

to be a place where being healthy is the default. Right now, vapes are easy to find and easy to see. Kids sell them on buses. Bathroom alarms go off in schools. It's almost become background noise. And that's the scary part. When it turns into background noise, kids stop asking whether it's okay, and it turns into more of the norm. And the numbers show how fast that's happened. Wake County's own figures show that vaping among North Carolina high schoolers went from 1.7% in 2011 to 20.9% in 2019. That's an increase of over 1,000% in less than a decade. So how does it spread? According to UNCC's North Carolinians for a tobaccof free generation policy brief, over 43% of NC teens who vape get their vapes from a friend, not a store, a friend. It spreads through what kids see around them and what feels normal. What matters most to me is that among many teens, vaping is still seen as cool. And what people consider cool is shaped by what they see around them. That's exactly why this ordinance matters. When clean air becomes the standard in places we all share, it no longer becomes what the cool kids are doing. It becomes something that looks out of place. It looks uncool. Th that shift only happens if the message is consistent. Young people don't experience carry in certain zones. They they have no way of knowing where one rule starts and another begins. They simply notice what's around them. So the clearest message we can send is a consistent one. smoke free, vape free, and tobaccof free in all of our public spaces so that no young person has to guess. This council has the power to make clean air the norm for the next generation of carry kids. I urge you to vote in the next council meeting. Thank you for your time and for your leadership.

Next speaker, please.

Good evening, council members. My name is Yoshasi Saxana and I'm a high school junior at NCSSM Durham and I'm a youth leader with the POE Center for Health Education's Teen Health Advisory Council. I want to talk today about the tobaccof free public places ordinance and why it matters for young people in our community. I want to begin by saying that I appreciate Car's commitment to creating these public spaces and appreciate the effort to make our parks healthier places for families and young people. I also want to share what tobacco and nicotine use looks like from the perspective of a high school student. Every day, students can walk into bathrooms filled with vape clouds. We see people vaping before school, in parking lots, around recreational facilities, and at community events. Because young people encounter it so frequently, tobacco and nicotine use become to feel normal. And that normalization matters. When young people repeatedly see smoking and vaping in public spaces, it can contribute to the perception that tobacco use is not particularly harmful or serious. This can lead to a kind of desensitization, especially when the long-term effects of nicotine were not immediately visible. And nicotine use among young people is not insignificant in our area. According to the North Carolina Youth Risk Behavior Survey, 21.4% of North Carolina high school students reported using an electronic vapor product containing nicotine. For teenagers, the concern is not simply whether someone chooses to use a tobacco product. It's also the environment surrounding that choice. Public spaces help shape what young people perceive as normal, acceptable, and common. And these effects extend beyond the people that use these products. Young people who do not smoke or vape can still encounter secondhand smoke or ecigarette aerosol in shared public spaces. When tobacco use is permitted around us, we simply cannot choose to avoid that exposure. And I believe that consistency is key. People do not experience the triangle as completely separate jurisdictions and

families move between municipalities every day. When tobacco regulations change from one to another, residents and visitors may not know which rules apply in which city boundary. Consistency matters for implementation. If Broly and Carrie have similar expectations for tobacco use in public spaces, residents receive one clear message about what is expected. Clarity and consistency are especially important when the goal is protecting young people. As a teenager and as a resident of Kerry, I want young people to have public spaces where healthy choices are supported. And ultimately, it's about the environment we create for the next generation. I appreciate Carrie for taking steps toward tobaccof free public spaces and the commitment to keeping our spaces clean. I hope that you consider voting in favor of this ordinance at the next meeting. Thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else for public speaks out? Seeing no one, I'll close public speaks out and we'll move to the consent agenda, which is item four. And for the benefit of people watching our meeting via streaming, I'll take a moment to review our consent agenda items. Please keep in mind that one vote approves all of these items. On the consent agenda, we have council member travel and training expenses for August 2026 budget adjustment arbitrage funds capital area metropolitan planning organization budget amendment. Bid award for the 2026 force main inspection and maintenance project. Bid award for Optimus Farm road Optimus Farm roadwater main extension and interconnect interconnect contract for integrated fuel management services. Contract amendment for management and operations of fixed and demand response transit services. Contract amendment for value engineering for Western Wake Regional Water

Reclamation Facility Project. notification contract with Cisco Capital for information technology equipment. Would council members like any of these items pulled from the consent for discussion? If not, I would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda.

So moved.

Second.

There's a motion and a second. In discussion, I'll call on Miss Richards, see if she has any comments.

No, mayor.

Okay. Other comments from council? All in favor of the motion, please say I.

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. That takes us to public hearings. If I can catch up. Here we go. We have only one public hearing this evening and that is 26A6 Evans Road annexation and principal planner Rachel Smith will introduce this hearing and council may take action on this item. Mrs. Smith.

Good evening council. This is case 26A06. a petition to annex approximately 46 acres of unadressed property on Evans Road about 500 ft north of Silver Grove Drive. The property owners petition to annex the site so they may build a new detached dwelling home and connect to carry utilities. The property is vacant, contiguous to carry corporate limits and within Car's extr territorial jurisdiction. It is zoned carry residential 20 which permits the proposed detached toll in use. So a resoning is not needed. There is no intervening right ofway associated with this with this request. This evening, council is asked to hold the public hearing on the annexation petition. And following the public hearing, I'm available for any questions and council may take action on the annexation this evening.

Thank you, Miss Smith. So, now is the public hearing for 26A6

Evans Road annexation. And I'll call on the clerk to share any written comments or call on any registered speakers. No registered speakers nor written comments.

If you're here in the audience and would like to speak at this public hearing, now is your opportunity and I would invite you forward. Seeing no one, I'll close the public hearing, open it up to council members for questions or comments. Miss Richards, any questions or comments?

No, mayor. Thank you.

Okay. I would entertain a motion to approve the annexation. U make a motion that we approve 26A06 Evans Road annexation.

Second.

There's a motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I.

I. Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously.

We now move to discussion items. Our first discussion item is 22Z Alustin Commons PDP. Planning manager Aaron Pucket will give a report and council may take action. Miss Pucket. Thank you, mayor, and good evening, council. This is a request to reszone approximately 22.74 acres at NC55 highway and Petty Farm Road. You held the public hearing for this request in April of 2025, and you continued this item in March of this year when it came before you last. Site is located on the east side of NC55 highway with frontage on both sides of Petty Farm Road. The Noval Kerry apartment development is located to the north. Austin Town Center is across NC55 to the west and a town of Kerry water tower is located directly south of the site. The site is currently zoned office research and development or OAD. It's also within the mixeduse Overlay district and the Austin activity center which allows for a variety of uses. and the applicant proposes to reszone the site to mixeduse district or MXD with a preliminary development plan and

the mixeduse overlay will remain. The proposed preliminary development plan is divided into five pods. Pod one is a commercial pod which may be developed with singlestory commercial uses and surface parking. This is the only pod where a car wash is permitted. Pods two and three are mixeduse pods which may include commercial, office and residential uses. Buildings may be between three and seven stories and at least 75% of parking will be in structured parking facilities. At least 7,500 square feet of commercial uses will be vertically integrated in both of these mixeduse pods. Pod 4 contains only residential uses and may also be in 3 to sevenstory buildings with at least 75% structured parking required. Pod five is an office pod. Commercial uses are also permitted in this pod. Buildings will again be between three and seven stories and at least half of parking will be in structures. The proposed uses and intensities for the site include up to 625 residential units which may consist of multif family units or life care community, a maximum 30,000 foot car wash, and in addition, a minimum of 15,000 and maximum of 25,000 square feet of commercial uses other than the car wash such as banks, bars, restaurants, and retail stores among others. and a minimum of 50,000 and maximum of 200,000 square feet of office. The applicant has also provided several development standards that would apply specifically to a car wash use on pod one. These were added after the public hearing last year. These include fully enclosing all equipment, including vacuums in the building, limiting drive-thru lanes, through the building, to just one, installing eight solar panels on the roof, designing building facades with 85% masonry material in at least two colors, which exceeds the community appearance manual requirement of 75% masonry, and phasing the car wash

to ensure construction has begun elsewhere on site at the time of its completion. The applicant has also offered to provide streetside trail along all site frontages. In addition, the site will be subject to right-of-way dedication and improvements along all frontages as applicable, including a third northbound through lane on NC55. Transportation improvements are proposed at all of the seven site access points, and this would include right turn lanes at three sight access points along NC55. And the development is also required to construct the portion of the Mcrimman Parkway extension through the site which staff anticipates will stub to a potential future grade separated crossing. The preliminary development plan offers streetscapes and buffers mostly consistent with minimum LDL widths and planting rates and commits to screening parking decks via wrapping or partially wrapping them with buildings in pods two, three, and four. and in five, they may be screened with green walls or artwork. At least 5% of the units will be affordable at 80% of the area median income for a 30-year period. At least 5% of the units will be a maximum size of 750 square ft. And this condition may overlap with the previous condition about the 80% AMI units. There will be at least 48 electric vehicle charging spaces distributed across pods 2 through five. 8 foot wide sidewalk will be provided on internal streets and travelways. And over 20,000 square feet of community gathering space will be distributed across the site with at least 500 square feet in pod one and 5,000 square feet in the others. The applicant has requested several modifications, including some modifications to streetscapes and the internal transportation network, which were detailed more fully in your staff report. The planning and zoning board reviewed this request in July of 2025 and they

found the request consistent with the imaginary community plan by a vote of 8 to1 with a one vote for inconsistency noting the proposal was only partially consistent with plan policies and also that it was important the request be discussed when it returned to council as it was very complex. This request was scheduled for final decision in both September and October of last year, but removed both times at the applicant's request, after which time a phasing condition was initially added. And then, as you are aware, the request was scheduled for decision at your March meeting earlier this year, but was continued indefinitely after a motion to approve failed to pass. The applicant made several changes to condition since the case was continued in March, including adding a minimum number of residential units, 500 in addition to the maximum, adding a minimum height of 18 ft to the one-story building in pod one. And for reference, one a one-story, excuse me, one commercial story typically averages about 15 feet in height. Specifying there will be two colors of masonry for a car wash in pod one. specifying that at least 500 square feet of the community gathering space in pod three, which again is one of the mixeduse pods, shall include real or synthetic grass and include at least three items from a pick list such as seating, plantings, art, or others. and the applicant modified the previously offered phasing condition to specify that no certificate of occupancy will be requested for pod one prior to construction commencing on pod two and pod three which are the two mixeduse pods. While the condition does allow a car wash to be the first use constructed on site and does not dictate phasing for the entire project or ensure the timing of f full buildout of the mixeduse pods. It would ensure that a car wash cannot be completed and occupied unless vertical construction, which is at least erecting columns, has begun on buildings in those two central pods, subject to an

approved development plan. A full analysis of the case against the imaginary community plan was provided in your staff report. Generally, staff found the proposal meets a number of live, shop, and engage policies and does at least partially meet some shape, work, and move policies. The proposal also offers a number of commitments consistent with the vision for destination centers. These policies are most directly addressed by pods 2, three, and four. On their own, these central pods are aligned with the destination center guidance. Pod 5 can also be consistent in its proposal of complimentary office uses and structured parking, although the lack of detail and phasing makes it difficult to deem fully consistent with plan policies. And finally, pod one on its own is not consistent with destination center guidance due to the proposed use and form and the vehicular oriented nature of this pod. Overall, the proposal does not fully address all applicable policies, but does largely offer positive commitments in line with plan guidance and therefore on balance, staff recommends approval of the request. This concludes my presentation and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Mr. Pucket. I have a procedural question and I'm going to look at Mr. Barry and M. Johnson while I ask you this question. I thought you said a planning and zoning board member voted no because he wanted to make he she wanted to make sure this was discussed. I would prefer and this is something we can work on 3x4s or whatever that they are able to vote their conscience and as a body recommend that we discuss it if we can do that and I think our policy is practice not policy right or the putting on the consent agenda is practice not policy correct

I believe

yeah I think we'd have to update a um a

procedure of how we do that but we can take a look at that discuss it,

but it's something to consider in the future because I really want to know what they think. I don't want them voting no just because they want us to discuss it. So,

yes. Anyway,

and I don't think it was only that. I think there was some language they used about it meets some policies. It doesn't fully meet everything I want it to meet. And also, I recognize this probably needs further consideration. So, I wanted to accurately reflect what they said, but I take your point.

Okay. Thank you. And Miss Richards, I'll start with you first. see if you have questions, comments about this.

I appreciate that, mayor. Thank you. I I do have a few brief comments and I'm sorry that council member Bonszal isn't with us this evening because I first want to commend her for being such a tireless advocate for her district and for working so diligently with the applicant to improve this proposal. I thank the applicant for being receptive and responsive. And I personally appreciate the investment in soil cells for the proposed street trees to ensure the health of those trees and for the preservation of a champion tree on the property. And I can support this much density in this location because it is within one of our designated destination centers. And our destination centers are the place where the imagine carry plan says density and this kind of commercial development is most appropriate. And I think that then allows us to preserve other parts of Terry to be less dense and less developed. So had I been casting a vote tonight, I would have been supportive.

Thank you, M. Richards. I'll open it up to my colleagues for questions or comments.

Yeah, I can go first. Yeah. Yeah. Um I agree with uh council member uh Richard and uh she said that this is the destin destination center and uh it shows the density here is good fit. uh and I saw the uh the changes that the uh the phase

that part two and part three will be developed together compared to last time. It was the change right and also saw the uh the improvement about the uh the trees the storm water system the sailor soil. Yeah, that I learned that from you as well. [laughter] And uh one question is the u affordable housing 5% of the units. So my question is uh is the p two and p three the total units will be developed like 5% of units and also what kind of units are they onebedroom or two bedrooms? Uh do they have several options for those affordable housing?

Yes. So, the bedrooms or the size of the units beyond that commitment to a a certain percentage, it'll be smaller units. We we don't know. They haven't committed to a certain number of bedrooms. That would be a development plan question. Regardless, they do still have to make sure at least 5% and it would be by phase. So, if pod 4 develops last, 5% of whatever amount is in that pod would still have to be affordable. So, it is by phase. um with the inclusion now of a minimum number of residential units in addition to the maximum, we know we'll at least get 5% of 500 is 25 units. So we have some certainty now that we would at least get 25 units at 80% AMI whereas before we only had the maximum. Okay, that's uh a little bit concern for me because I would love to have more affordable housing to be developed together during the first phase so we could provide to the needs of our community. Um but in general, I'm pretty supportive of this uh the changed proposal. Thank you.

And and on the affordable housing, just to remind everybody, 80% of AMI is over $100,000 a year. So, not really affordable. I love the 750 square foot

because that's naturally affordable. We've talked about that before

and so that's almost guaranteeing that some of them will be affordable. So, love that. And uh uh I was originally concerned about this project because I thought it would be a car wash only or could be a car wash only. So, now that we have more guarantees that that wouldn't be the case, then I can support it. main like like Miss Richard said it's in a destination center. So other comments?

Well, I'll I'll just quickly mirror what you said, Mr. Mayor. The um Silva cells, of course, I I'm I go on and on and on about them because now that I've I've I've gone to other cities and and saw, oh, okay, this is real shade. Uh one of my goals in life is to make us not all bake in the sun in every built environment and carry. And if you want people to linger in this mixeduse um community is really what it is, they will if they're not frying like beetles. So very big fan of that. Um those trees will reach more maturity, height, um density of leaves, all the things. So it's it's also, as I understand it, really great to run wires and pipes and all kinds of things through as well. Right. I'm looking at I'm waiting for a nod from Mr. Barry at the end there. Um, but I will say this project began its journey through our um not short process to be reszoned quite a while ago. Quite a while ago, we were not as sophisticated with um what we asked for and or what we asked is the right word and when it came to affordable housing. So, we were less um we were just really happy to get anything sometimes. Um, and then you know, as the mayor's mentioned here, 80% is, you know, that's a lot. That's people making a a pretty darn good living. One of the reasons why I advocate for smaller footprint living

spaces is because those are naturally going to be more affordable. um whether they're restricted by um you know really they probably don't even need to be restricted to 80% or less because those are the most likely individuals that and especially in a in a garden apartment where a more luxury community those are the individuals that are likely to to live in those smaller units of people at that 90 to $100,000 income household income level wouldn't be I mean out of the ordinary I will say that um having a condition with the 5% being kept at a smaller size and also having a condition um to reserve 80% or less for 30 years or or less, right? Those are each excellent. They should be mutually exclusive. Having them overlap um and be applied to the same group of housing units doesn't live up to the spirit of what I expected when those were offered as a condition. And I hope as we we get more and more sophisticated that I don't see that again. Um it's just it it just doesn't it doesn't that's not what we meant. That's not what we thought we agreed to. And and I just want to be very very um explicit in that that is one condition to me that is not two nor is it a generous condition. And I do understand there are significant um financing and other issues. you know, you still have to do this at a profit and these are not nonprofit builders that are um building affordable housing, you know, as as a career. So, I do understand that the inclusion of the affordable housing is challenging as it is. But, um, you know, I just I just want to be clear about, you know, what I think about a condition like that. You know, I would have rather just see the the smaller size condition. Um, I I'm I'm quite pleased with those because I really do, as somebody who lived in 748 square feet for a long time, I really do

know that those that smaller housing footprint can make a big difference for for folks that, you know, just can't afford the average carry cost. I'm still um supportive of this project. I think I never had a problem with the car wash. I always thought it was a good idea. As a matter of fact, if you remember that, I think everybody giggled at me, but here we are talking about a car wash at the end. So I just want to share my perspective and I do support this project though. I think I can probably quickly echo everything that everyone has said so far. And just to just to restate again, at first look, it would have been I I think I can say pretty exciting if we were looking at 25 units at 80% AMI for 30 years and 25 units at 750. And we we don't know that for sure. I think it is a step in the right direction as as you said and what we want to see more of. Um I lived in a 600 foot apartment um as a brand new teacher and um would definitely like to see more of those. I am very pleased with um the statement of the minimum number of units because that at least tells us we're getting at least 25 something that should be more affordable than market rate.

Um well, first off, I think we've all said it, but I'd like to thank the work that the applicant has done. I know this has been a a long slot and different folks and you've been through different councils, too, right? which is no great uh or it's quite a great feat to have to bring new council members up to speed as well. Um and tried to uh juggle all the various um desires that each one of us had. Um also want to thank the applicant for putting the latest visions into the plan.

not only did you listen, but you took action. And so that's really really helpful. Whether it's um from the environmental items, the EV, the solar, the silver cells, the I mean just the structured parking alone, we know how expensive that is. Um and that's re where a destination center and structured parking really do come together. and and deck screening. I don't know who asked for that, but thank you for asking [laughter] because uh that's also going to make a difference. Um but as the mayor has said and I've heard from developers, I think what we're hearing at this table is that our methodology for affordable housing isn't working as well as we had hoped. It was a great idea and I still think it's a great idea, but with the change in the environment, the change in financing, you know, it it was a way for us to get some affordable housing when we had none.

Um, and so, as you mentioned, 80% AMI isn't reaching the workforce need. It's not meeting the needs of teachers, 911 operators, police, fire, and and people who work in our restaurants. Um, and 750 square feet gets there from a naturally occurring perspective. Although a single mom with two or three kids is going to have a challenge in 750 square feet. So having options really hits more people, not just the small apartment entry level college student. So, I'm supportive of this and I'm very supportive. Thank you so much for adding the phasing. But, uh, one thing I would like to make a comment and maybe this could be a future discussion. I'm not a council initiated item.

[laughter]

Um, but it would be great if we had other tools in our toolbox for having

more affordable housing that is a winwin and a partnership with our development community rather than, you know, a strain on them. Uh Raleigh has some great tools where they use a housing fund and a developer can make a donation to that housing fund and then not be strapped with this 30-year commitment

to provide it and we along with our nonprofit partners take it on. I think what I'm feeling is there might be other ways to make a better um better dent yeah in in what we can do. So that has nothing to do with this. I'm very supportive of it, but I I recognize that as our economy changes, as the financing becomes more difficult, it might be a way for us to get more affordable housing. But having said all that, putting it out there, I I am supportive of this as well.

Can I just share I I agree very very much. It was recently explained to me by someone who designs um a lot of these communities that um you know we're not in the managing checking how much you make and making sure that you qualify business. And he said he was telling me that if we were to embrace smaller units, not all studios, you know, my 748 ft was two bedrooms, right? But if we embrace the smaller unit approach then it's less of a financing problem for them or or management and it becomes a geometry problem and he said and we can solve a geometry problem. So just I like that idea very very much and of course a lot of the books you know we're reading a lot of the same books we are

um they they really because you know we're approving and they're staggered but what we're looking at is losing in 30 years or sometimes 20 years we're going to lose unit after unit after unit so these have a shelf life

right

which I think it's good because we have a significant issue right now but it doesn't longterm um exactly

solve any affordability issues. Yeah. And not to belabor the point and yes and that one of the challenges is having a more of a variety of affordable housing

and I I think the idea of having some smaller units for natural occurring housing. I know this this applicant uh was also involved in the Banebridge um development which happens to without any conditions have more than 13% of their units at 750 square feet because the market is there for that. So if the market's going to address some things that's great. I'd like to address what the market can't hit and I think that that is some of the bigger units. Anyway, with that, since we all spoke, um, may make a motion that we move to adopt the following documents attached to the online agenda for the statement of consistency for 22 Alustin Commons, PDD, and the reasonzoning ordinance 22 Austin Common PD. I'll

second it.

Motion and a second. Discussion. Miss Richards, anything under discussion for you? I take that as a note. [laughter]

Sorry. Unmuting myself. No comments for discussion. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Uh all in favor of the motion, please say I.

I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Thank you.

Thank you.

Now move to our second discussion item. And it's amendment number one to the number five mixeduse downtown development project agreement for the flat iron mixeduse development and principal planner Rachel Smith will present this item and council may take action. Miss Smith.

Hello again council. This item is amendment one to the number five mixeduse downtown development project agreement for the property at 602 West Chattam Street and 523 Old Apex Road. Tonight, I'll provide some background on the project, outline outline the terms of the original agreement, and cover the key terms of the amendment before you for consideration tonight. Two names come up with this project. Number five refers to the site's original gas station, the fifth in its franchise, and known on the books as the number five. Flat Iron is the development's name, taken from the property's triangular wedgelike shape, which gives the building an iron-shaped silhouette. Council approved the resoning and the original development agreement for this site together in December of 2022. The resoning went from town center mixeduse district to town center highintensity mixeduse district. The site is comprised of two parcels that collectively sum to about 2 acres. 602 West Cadam was most recently the former Sitco gas station which has been removed and 523 Old Apex Road has a small warehouse building previously used as an automobile repair facility. The irregular shape of the property and its considerable roadway frontage, nearly 900 linear feet, have design implications in the site's redevelopment. In terms of the imagine Kerry community plan, the property sits within the downtown Kerry special planning area, West Chattam Gateway sub area, and is within K's downtown business improvement district established to encourage private redevelopment and investment in the downtown core. In addition to the approved resoning, the development agreement locked in a mixeduse building with 150 to 200

multifamily units, a building height of 50 to 75 ft, 5,000 to 10,000 ft of commercial space, at least 10 EV or electric vehicle charging stations, at least 400 square ft of pvious or green roof area, Facades with 5% more masonry than would otherwise be required by the community appearance manual or CAM. Elimination of the existing private pump station and replacement with municipal gravity sewer lines and pedestrian improvements including one pedestrian beacon. The flat iron development plan was submitted by Kain Realy in December of 2025. and now has had several rounds of technical review by the applicant and staff. Meaning there is a greater engineered understanding of the site context, land development ordinance requirements and development objectives. Opportunities for additional public utility benefits to the area and system beyond the needs of the site have been identified and streetscape and pedestrian improvements have been designed to match site conditions and best practices. In addition to the understanding provided by the plan review process, market and financial conditions have shifted since 2022 and the passage of a recent House bill by the state legislature means Carrie could no longer sit set parking minimums. This combination of added clarity and change conditions has identified terms that facilitate better community outcomes with less public investment. Here are the key terms of this amendment. The amendment restructures, simplifies, and as I mentioned, reduces K's

financial commitment. The original agreement had two reimbursement obligations which were estimated collectively at up to $2.5 million in 2022. The amendment proposes crediting back the actual utility development fees incurred by the project of approximately 1 million. This is a $ 1.5 million cut from Car's total potential obligation. The permitted multif family units go up by 50 units from 150 to 200 to 200 to 250 while building height and all other design obligations stay unchanged. A minimum parking commitment of 271 spaces is now included. Locking in parking after parking minimums go away when state legislation takes effect in January. And as the public improvements have scaled up, the amendment reclassifies the pump station elimination and the sewer and water main work as public improvements and refineses the streetscape and pedestrian and bicycle facilities, which I'll walk through next in more detail. The new exhibit E to the amendment shows the streetscape and pedestrian improvements the develop developer will build along the site frontage. This includes 14 soil cells or sila cells and green infrastructure plus pedestrian and bicycle facilities that exceed standard requirements including a covered bus shelter that is integrated into the building as well as wider sidewalks. As discussed in the staff report, the developer is proposing a rectangular rapid flashing beacon at the West Cadam and West Park Street crosswalk as part of a design modification request through the development plan review process, which keeps the town's flexibility to evaluate the request on its own merits.

The new exhibit F shows the public utility improvements. This includes the the elimination of a private pump station and connecting to a new public gravity sewer main to the existing public line, thus bringing off-site properties to the north into the public system with new service laterals. Developer will also extend public water man and the West Cadam Street rightway. By offering an estimated 1 million utility fee credit under the amended agreement, Carrie gained substantial public utility improvements built in coordination with the project rather than funding this same work with capital dollars later. The FY2028 budget will anticipate this credit by revising projected fee revenues and future budgets won't carry the capital cost of these public utility improvements. This evening, council may make a decision on the proposed amendment. Staff recommends that council adopt the attached resolution approving amendment one to the downtown development project agreement for the number five mixeduse development. I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Thank you, Miss Smith. Mr. Richards, any questions or comments?

My only comment is this feels like a win-win for the town. We are getting uh even more from this uh from the plan, the original development plan for less investment of town dollars, including the improved streetscapes and pedestrian improvements. And much like the conversation we just had about smaller square footage units, meaning that those units then might be naturally affordable housing by virtue of being smaller. I think increasing the number of units means we will get more smaller square

footage units and we just talked about those virtues and so for those reasons I am supportive.

Thank you Miss Richards. Open it up to colleagues at the table questions or comments. Well, I I guess I'll go first. And those of you here know sometimes I talk about the fact that I look for problems or detailed problems and um and I had a lot of questions, not detailed problems, but really needed additional detail about how this was going to work. And um full disclosure, it's a tenth of a mile away from my house. So yes, I'm as some people may say, I can see it from there. Um, I actually I think there's so much to be excited about this project because when it first came four years ago, we had some some quite lively discussions about what well first what a flat iron could be and thank you uh for explaining that some folks didn't know that a flat iron billing actually represented an iron. So that's helpful for some people. Um, but I think there's so much to be excited about because it does several things. It reduces the originally approved amount that we were going to partner with the developer on um from original 2.5 million to um about a million which is quite a cost savings. The integrated bus stop is quite unique because today two of the bus stops around there one's actually in the dirt um and another one across the street is actually on a nice concrete pad. But I don't think we've seen in Carrie an integrated bus stop yet.

It's pretty exciting.

It's pretty exciting for those of us who take the bus from time to time. Um the wider sidewalks, the pedestrian beacon, which we hear so many people so excited about now at the right place. Um, and the new public water man is really

exciting because we had to put on hold um a sidewalk on that side of the street coming down because we didn't have um enough money to do that new public water main feature. So, that actually starts that process so we can continue safer mobility down that street. So, um I I think it has so many great components of it. I'm definitely supportive of it.

Other comments or questions?

Could you go back to the parking slide? I'm pretty sure I understand. But [clears throat] I mean, I understand that with the changes in the changes the legislature has made that we can't hold developers to parking commitments. vote. I mean, nothing changed from when we met with them before, except for they don't have to do the parking. Is that what you're saying? I mean, they they've written it in here.

The 271 um obligation was written in after they met with you.

Okay.

Can you clarify further? They could by right develop with no parking spaces whatsoever if they wanted nobody to ever come to their business or live there

after January 1st.

After January 1st and we can legally accept a condition for a parking minimum

in the development agreement. You can

this is not in the resoning.

This is in the development agreement.

Okay. We can in the development

and the original development agreement didn't talk about parking because we had

there was no need to.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I I'll just share a couple of quick observations and an anecdote as usual. Um this is this is a you described it as a mutually

beneficial amendment and I think that's a bit of an understatement. Um the increase in units that additional potential 50 units at at this um in this development. we were invited to meet with the applicant's team and their um attorney and some of our staff so that it could be explained to us. Um so they they brought us the you know changes and basically the details to remind us of this project when they were requesting that we consider this amendment. And at the time it was explained to me that the building itself was going to be no bigger. It would just have more units in it. And I want to make absolutely sure I have that correct. Okay. So that that is why we see this as potentially um more affordable housing, not probably affordable, but um long-term uh a little bit less expensive because of the size, although it's a really really great location, and I think this is going to be a highly desirable place for folks to live. So I think at least for the immediate future, it's going to it's going to be at a premium. But the the the applicant, I just I've got to commend you for reading the room. I don't think anybody's ever read the room better. They came with like there was something for everybody in this amendment, right? And it was I didn't even know about the covered integrated bus stop until now.

Um I've not seen that before. I was just like oo, you know, like this is it's it that felt um really insightful because of the location especially. Um, it's not too far off of what I believe is going to be the destination for BRT when that is built. Correct. So, you'll be able to get from from this area to downtown Raleigh pretty darn fast. And that's that's that's exciting. But this public infrastructure um obviously it very much benefits your development, but it also very much devel

benefits the taxpayers of Kerry. Uh, so I was really thrilled to see that. Obviously that uh the trail it's it's a lot of places for people to walk. We already have a lot of people walking over there and now they'll be able to walk on a wider path and they won't fry like beetles. Uh because you'll have a very significant number of mature trees lining the the project. So, I just wanted to because I feel enthusiastic about this project. I wanted to make sure to say all those things really enthusiastically into here because this since I joined council four years ago, we've been talking about this project. I feel like it I feel like it's totally different um and very I think significantly improved. That's that's my opinion on this one. So very much

and not only can the people living there benefit from that covered integrated into the building bus shelter,

but that's a public bus shelter. I mean it's it's a public bus. So the people walking on those new improved pedestrian areas can also use the bus. So

you're tickled.

Oh, I'm so excited. [laughter]

They're coming. I um so Rachel, could you turn the next one to the saving of car's $1.5 million?

Um the financial commitment reduce car's financial commitment that's the applicants voluntarily to reduce uh to pay more for this project, right? So could save the towns. It's just a completely different structuring

of who pays for what and who does what.

Okay. So I I feel it's quite responsible uh um applicant developer trying to uh build a very good relationship with Kerry and I'm I'm very excited for this. Um and I'm very excited for the first flat iron building in Kerry because the first one I saw was in um New York. I

think this is the second actually. I think there's one at the other end of Chadam that exists.

That's right. Soon to be popping. I promise you that.

This one will be more famous I think.

Yeah. So almost Cadam the two the two ends are bookended by Flat Iron Buildings which it's like we planned it. That's pretty cool.

I think there's a t-shirt coming in that flat iron book end.

Yeah. Flat iron book. And I I I just wanted to ask um especially the the more tenured and experienced council members, this appear like this type of sort of pivot away from the town having to invest more in developments to get uh you know more cool stuff built in that area. It's this seems to be a pivot where I feel as though the investment in downtown has paid off and now folks really want to be there. Um, and so they're they're willing to invest more in the media area. Um, and I hope to see uh more things come in with this sort of pivot towards, you know, don't ask us what we can do for you, but what can you do for our our downtown neighborhoods?

Um, I don't know if I maybe I'm misreading that, but I do I feel like there's a lot of people who really want to be near the downtown corridor, both business and residential. I wanted to say one more thing and perhaps other council members can help me because I'm not sure exactly how to word it, but some of the things I've been seeing on social media for for people who are not excited about more densely developed areas, even when we talk about destination areas and residents putting the time to sit for the planning of the imaginary plan and things like that to determine where the density would be. Some people are not realizing and so I wanted to state it again that

this was approved previously by a previous council and that this is an amendment and I I know it's it's on the screen it says amendment key points like I know I just wanted to state it one more time that this is we're probably it hasn't come for a lot of discussion like you know when we get something for the first time we have the public hearing hearings and over and over four months we are talking about it. So that is the difference with this. It was already already approved by a previous council and it's just the amendment tonight.

That's right. And they could build today under the currently approved which would cost Carrie a million and a half dollars more. We'd have a lot less.

So yeah, good point.

We ready for a motion?

Yes. You want to join?

I think I can.

Or do you have it?

Yeah.

Great.

Um I um I I propose that we adopt the attached resolution approving amendment for downtown number five flat iron development.

Motion

and the second discussion.

Miss Richards, anything under discussion?

No additional comments, mayor.

Okay. All in favor of the motion, please say I. I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously. Our third item was removed from the agenda at the beginning of the meeting when we amended the agenda and that is the smoking ordinance which we will come to at our next meeting. And that takes us to our fourth and final item which is transportation and mobility committee committee to a formal board for council's operations procedure. The council as a whole may take one of the following actions. Discuss the issue and take action at the meeting if no information is required from staff and if council does not seek public input.

refer the request to a future meeting at which time staff with staff recommendations will be prepared decide not to pursue the council initiated item. So this was initiated by council by Mayor Pro Tim Bush and so I'll turn it over to her for her comments.

Thank you mayor. Um, so for those of you who aren't aware, the transportation working group was actually established through a council initiated item. At the same time, we did the senior advisory board and oh, the um, human relations, inclusivity, and diversity board. Um, those out of those three, two of those have already been uh, changed into formal boards and that happened in 2020. and um they began meeting in 2021. And since that time, this group who've been meeting now for about five years, they've been a great uh ongoing forum mostly um for staff to leverage um where they have great discussions about transportation mobility issues. They've looked at some um our bike plan, our BRT, our um master plans, and other transportation initiatives. and they've acted in many ways like like a formal advisory board. They had regular meetings. You can even if you're online today, you can look up some of their presentations and see what they talked about. Um and even even though they are a working group, they we haven't really had a lot of change. They're um the membership is through the staff, not through a council um opportunity. And there's no way for a citizen to just or resident to just say, "Hey, I have some transportation ideas. I would like to apply for this for this board." Because they're not a formal recognized board. Um and I my thought was that it might be time to have

transition this ad hoc board working board to move to a formal board especially as we're encountering more pedestrian safety mobility concerns as transit is expanding um we see now um transit expanding to maybe west Kerry and to South Kerry and as new conversations come online Um so I uh asked for us to discuss this, see what that might look like. Um as an aside, many of our um sister municipalities have either bike, pedestrian, transportation working groups, and I think that we could have some great insight from our the intellectual capital that is in Kerry in this important area. Um so I thought I'd bring it forward as a idea to transition and I asked um the member of go triangle [laughter] faong to to um participate.

Yeah. Thank you uh Mayor Pretan Bush. I am happy to second this item. Um I'm a the new council member and was appointed last year by mayor to the go triangle and I see the this area the transportation and transit is developing very fast. The new um uh mobility hub for the go triangle and also carrier is going to develop our new hub as well. Uh I see the the needs of this area but we don't have a formal transportation and mo mobility uh committee and I know our transportation director and our transit director Kelly and Cassie they are so busy. Uh the residents send me emails to me and we have different information and with the residents. So when they saw the buses uh not fully occupied and when they see some sidewalks why we we don't have enough sidewalks in south island of

Kerry. a lot of these kinds of questions uh and our staff is very uh prompt uh responded to our residents but I think we need more residents voices and put those to a a formal committee and even we they have for uh regular meetings and could put those issues into their like the planning zoning. So we could consider even with new um development they have the new corridor uh transportation study they could learn this first and communicate with public. So I think this will I only see the benefit for the town council and our town. So I really uh would love to uh bring this uh from mayor Bush to discuss with you all and also uh here this one is not going to overburden our staff. I'm willing to relieve our staff to bring more issues to the board so they could discuss more because there are a lot of um professionals professionals in carry their transportation or transit professionals. They could uh study first and bring us more options like for us to make a choice give us more options and um yeah that's what I think. Thanks,

Miss Richards. Any comments?

Yes, Mayor. Uh, thank you, Mayor Prom Bush. I think knowing that history was particularly helpful to know that we have two other formal boards that were suggested at the same time as the transportation and mobility committee that have since transitioned into becoming formal boards. So, that parody I think is is compelling and I think if we find value in the committee, then recognizing it as a formal board makes sense. And so the action that my colleagues take tonight, I support whichever of the um uh options that are available to us for a council initiated item.

Thank you. Um I'll weigh in pass it

down. My concern is what does this mean? Staff staff has a list of items that they could probably do 1/4th of in the next year and this adds to that list. Would it be better in the next budget year? I don't know. But I would like to know the staff impact and if staff come back and says maybe at the next meeting say hey we got this no big impact let's do it then I'm fine with that I just want to know what the staff impact is I don't want to continue to pile on which is what I feel like we've been doing so that's my only concern other than that great idea

I will share that so that folks are aware this is a working group that does have minutes presentation posted um right so there a lot of that work that's being done by some of the great staff that we have um is there and in place and will continue likely one way or the other whether a formal board or not but I do recognize that being a formal board does have you know well I I'm not sure if they did went through ethics trainings on a on a working group but obviously there are some of the things that associated assiated with that but you know there are WebEx meetings set up so a lot of that work is already done today it's not like we're starting from scratch

other thoughts comments

for for the emails and the communication that I get that are not zoning related it's feels like it's predominantly transportation pedestrian safety things like that are the questions that I get often So I'm feel like I'm constantly emailing Cassie like it feels like every other day at this point.

I agree. So I I think we we definitely just need more people power in the you

know in the thought process of of this and and it would be my hope that that could potentially relieve a tiny bit of the burden for staff. Al although I'm still going to call Cassie.

Anything else? I just I I truly believe that our advisory boards are absolute gems when it comes to feedback and input and and I know it is a lot to manage. just the logistics of it is is I don't know the burdensome is the word but it's a lot for staff but there the feedback is is so valuable that I as far as I'm concerned we can't have too many advisory boards sorry

let me ask a question before I ask for a motion is there any way to get impact information at the next meeting if we decided to make a decision at at that point or is that just piling on more to ask you for impact information?

I think if we're looking at what the initiated items are, if you wanted us to bring back options and information, we do that in the form of a motion. Um, and if we'll do that as quickly as we can. I don't want to necessarily hone us in to the next meeting, but if it's

a small amount of information, we can bring it back quicker. If it's a larger amount of information, that takes longer. The the reason

I kind of was was pushing a little bit is because our new boards and commissions come online

October next month.

Yeah.

October.

So trying to line them up would be perfect. So

that's the only thought if we're going that route. I have no idea where we're going.

Yeah. I'm not sure when we converted senior advisory board or the H if we did an impact, but they were both working groups

and obviously were in a different piled on though.

Sure. Sure. Sure.

Yeah.

But um well, I'll I'll make a motion. See if it fails. I'll make a motion that we um we move forward with uh converting the transportation working group uh idea into a formal um transportation and mobility uh board. I don't know if commission board. Some of them are boards. Some are the comm are there rules around that? I would say to go with board to be more consistent.

Board would be okay.

Can I ask a question?

Sure.

Well,

can we get a second first?

Second.

Thank you.

Can I ask a question? So, we have 189 applicants uh this year for the the total uh boards. So, if this passed, can we pick the applicants from that pool?

You can do anything you want.

Oh. Oh.

Council can do anything they want with boards and commission. You can wipe them clean and start over,

okay,

if you wanted to. I wouldn't recommend that,

but uh you can do anything you want. So, if this council decided they wanted to create a new transportation mobility board and pick from current applicants, you can certainly do that.

Yeah, we are responsible council members. [laughter]

Yeah. But realistically, it did do you envision keeping the roster that currently serves on the committee, converting it to one of our formal advisory boards, and then having the future appointments, be part of the the June recruitment that we already do um and have a council member own the appointment process and then a staff liaison. So, it would function the same as our other advisory boards.

Exactly. I believe that was the similar way we did for the senior board.

Uh HR ID,

sorry. H I thank you. Where just basically rolled into an official board.

I made I made that assumption, but I figured I'd

say it out loud.

Summarize

it. I to be fair uh the people that are currently on the board, some of them have been on for five years. Uh some filled some slot. There were a couple of

people that filled slots. So in a normal board they would be um meeting the end of their board life you know on on this but I think many of them would want to continue

and uh I just want to comment because this year is my first time to interview the applicants and I feel our residents care residents are so willing to be on the board so this one I feel there's one more opportunity for them to serve like more um it'll be very honor for them to

more spies.

Yes, that's great.

So, I'm very sensitive to staff impact, so I'm not going to support this. I would prefer to find out what that impact was before I continue to pile on. As I said, we have pages and pages of requests for staff and this is not even on those pages. Uh, so this is another one and I don't see the urgency. Why can't we wait till the next meeting or the meeting after to get the information we need? Um, and I certainly am in favor of the board being a permanent board. Don't get me wrong, I just want to be careful we don't keep overloading our staff, especially when it's not. We have to do this right now and I don't see this as that kind of urgency. So, those are my comments. Any other comments? Miss Richards, do you have any comments on the motion? Mayor, I I do share your concerns about uh imposing on staff. I'll say at my 3x4 yesterday, we had a healthy debate about what actually makes more work for staff. Is it being very deliberative and asking for more data points before we make a decision or is it better to just act decisively and adjust course as necessary? I don't have the answer for that. I can appreciate either side the argument. Um

so perhaps the easiest thing for staff actually is to just move forward with Mayor Prom Bush's motion. Um, and so I I will just add that to the record for consideration.

Okay. Any other comments?

And to I thought about actually volunteering that I brought that up during our 3x4 this week. Um, just sort of asking like, hey, sometimes do you wish we just make a decision or, you know, um, and it wasn't that it wasn't about this particularly. It was just, you know, in general often our our direction is we need more information and we very much often do need more information. Um, so she's absolutely right. We did have a brief discussion about that in our 3x4s. So we are I think we're trying not to be performatively concerned about staff time, but we are trying to figure out the best way. I think we all are in our own way to not make things any more difficult than they have to be. Um, so I'll just say that was the the spirit in which I offered that question. Um, Council Member Richard said it far better than I did, though I stumbled through it. [laughter]

Very good. Any other comments? All in favor of the motion, please say I.

I.

Those opposed, no. Motion carries four to one.

That concludes our agenda. We have no closed session. I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. So moved.

Second.

Motion and a second. Discussion. All in favor, please say I. I.

Any oppose? Motion carries unanimously and we are ajourned. Thank