Town Council Work Session - September 2026

No, sure didn't. She said,

To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all agenda here. going over to town first and then we'll pass it.

All right. Thank you, mayor. Uh good afternoon, mayor and council. Uh thank you for joining us this evening. Uh the first item is, as you know, a deferral from the August 25th meeting. Um, Council Member Gray had made a request to defer an agenda TC1 through TC6 to this work session September 15th. Um, and then on Friday, I also received a request that the mayor could withdraw his recommendations for the advisory board appointments. Um, so really just looking for direction from the elected body on what next steps look like.

Adding to that, I will share that the recommendations for this meeting are for the record of this meeting. That's the right

just the process what what do you all want to do? I mean my understanding is that um you have we have the nominations, we have the the records. So, um, if there's any clarification on what next steps look like in terms of the process, um, then now's the time.

Do want to add, I know there was an item set to planning board which occurred last night. Um, one of the things that occurred the last section I was present when that language was created and referred to the planning board. made that because I did look

that's about that now. I mean it's most planning boards they they think they would be right.

Yeah.

So it's it's an open matter. Let's I mean I would ask for consideration by my colleagues to have that conversation now. You guys are fine.

I think the intent behind the BO amendment was to essentially place a time a time limit on how long we would have to wait for a time understand that for that for that day. And I think the larger portion on on that and I think that was brought up during the planning board's discussion yesterday. Um I know I've had a chance to watch the u watch the comments and watch the hearing. I think one of the questions that we would be very good to help answer is I think there appears to be some confusion as to why they were getting this and I think this would be a good opportunity to provide the background and explanation and that way they can have a better understanding as to what that language uh what the language is and what it's there for. I see that you put it up on on the screen. Thank you. Yeah, and there were there were some other changes, but a lot of the other changes were um just clarifying, you know, them being corporate limits and um we typically provide a recommendation to the county before representative appointed. Um so the primary um and this is for judgement and then the same for I I do want to add that based on my

recollection, there's been two meetings that we one was a little bit more intense than the other, but I will add that. Um, I've always recommendation. The one with Tracy T involved, she was the only one who applied for that seat at that time. when we open that she was still the only so there was really no delay or intended delay for that position the other was Tina Sherman or chair again we didn't agree but that got resolved that I'll also add this u we still haven't finalized the process on planning board selection process Where are we at with that?

Well, before we move forward, I do think I don't I don't remember the disagreement about Tina Sherman being because ultimately in the course of the vote, she moved forward.

Sure. So I mean I think there may have been conversations and I think there may have been some perceptions as to the disagreement but I I don't I don't see that as being a disagreeing point by council and anybody because in the end when the vote came about there wasn't a was a yeah I mean am I am I off on that? Well, it it changed during the meeting. There was discussion because there was a disagreement with myation for the discussion led to Mr.

I guess I remember that conversation and the discussion taking place before we got into the meeting but I don't I don't remember during the course of the meeting. It was before the meeting

was initially disagreement spoke to me as reconsider. So

because I remember having a lot of conversations with with the staff this prior to the meeting because I think it's very important that if there's going to be you know when we're having these meetings the expectation of the public is that we get things done. So I I don't remember that. I mean I you can have your recollection. I can have my recollection but my recollection was that that was not a fight that took place during the course of the meeting.

So is is that the conversation like do you want to relitigate these meetings or decisions from the past or do we want to focus on the language here? Yeah, I was getting context that there's not been a recommenation presented that delay. I I respectfully disagree because we have a number of course positions that have expired where we have not yet new candidates for

I think we are delay that's that was really the whole purpose of putting clockically you know in the language of the UDO uh because the current language as it reads [clears throat] Um basically the whole process needs to be discovered as I may if a mayor I don't want to make with us universally right but a mayor for whatever reason is not able or willing to make a recommendation we are stuck in in in these nominations I think that's disrespectful to first of all the people that serve in those positions because now they're serving an

expired position positions where we still expected to continue the search because there's no on these eight expired. Uh so now we're expecting these these folks to serve beyond the term that they have committed uh for indefinite amount. I also think it's disrespectful towards the candidates that have applied for these positions and we're not, you know, we we last year updated the application process. We made it much more uh rigorous than what it was previously. And so here there's there's a number of people that have taken the time to submit their applications and we're not acting on these these appointments. So, I think we're we're in a place that we're kind of stuck, right? And so, you know, we have a list of nominations in front of us or a list of candidates in front of us for open positions that we have not got to for months now, right? These terms have expired. And so, I do believe that that's the current process that's allowed for delayed, you know, but these recommendations are not There needs to be another path for council community appointments. That's that's basically what the intent of the shot clock is is that you know we you know it needs to be routine business for us right nominations and then and appointments come up uh at least twice a year. Um so the intent here is to have a processing place where at least 30 days before the expiration of the term we get a recommendation from the mayor counting extra votes as we move on people roll out iniration date and then people get

so we just again What's that? I have not I didn't pull it from the last but I'm asking is it to go to a regular dentist which is September 22nd. because there are people who want to wait and check out the [clears throat] not for opportunity to talk about it public or after that. Where's where's the process with one day that we stopped where we at?

So, I sent you all an email on Friday that we were trying to schedule interviews for the one hour before September 22nd. Um, and so I've confirmed with both Tendai um Zang as well as Kyone Neville and both of them are available to do their interview on Tuesday right before the council meeting. So, um that It's been added to y'all's calendar and it's been scheduled. But um

what's the detail of the process?

Um so this will be the first time that you all have conducted interviews for planning board. Um there will be a list of draft questions that are circulated to you all similar to any other time that you all have participated in interviews. Um and once those questions are circulated to you all at the meeting, I will ask if you all have any changes. If you don't, then I would encourage you to ask the same questions of each candidate. Um, and then after the conclusion of the interviews, you all can make a recommendation at that time. Um, or wait until a meeting.

I get a motion to go into close session. We can we can stay we can go to the executive conference. It might be easier.

Okay.

Or going to the executive [clears throat] conference.

Yeah. I'm sitting here.

Okay. Go ahead.

check in with that team. We're off. Okay, we're back in session and yes in front of us right now discussion this item and then we'll move to the recommendation I made to different

so just to get into some of the points that we weren't able to talk any close session that have to be made in open s. So I know that we've got our interviews with regard to planning board are coming up uh at

22nd. So we have those interviews coming up and those interviews initially were established that we would have those interviews back in April as a way of resolving and making a selection between two qualified candidates come on plan and that was a decision that was made back in April due to scheduling other things like that not able to get that done until August and then now we're in September. Take a look back and at some point time after those interviews that's when we will make decision we'll vote up or down the decision will be made after those interviews. That's right. Now with regard to those interviews, my understanding is that even with those interviews, once those interviews are concluded, the question will still come down to whether or not there's been a recommendation of that person by the

mayor to vote up and down on. And it appears to be the position that unless the mayor makes the recommendation person and what's if we're voting on a person that person necessarily has to be recommended by that's my understanding of the you know I think that's a fair interpretation of kind of where we're at in terms of the overall process so the way that it looks to me is whether it's these issues that we were looking to try to resolve today in terms of board, various boards, or even with the planning board interviews for next week. Unless we get the recommendation from the mayor, we're just dead in the water. That's my take. And the mayor has indicated he is not making any recommendations today. So, I don't see how we can take action on anything today. So we could do one of two things. We could just make a motion to continue vote up and down on that. Continue it to a date that we think appropriate or we can do nothing have the matter be closed and then it gets continued over to the 27. It appears that the mayor's real concern is that he feels as though he has not had an opportunity to to play a role in this entire process. I I would only point out that we've been going through this for the last year, but I think it's I think it's his concern is fair in the sense that last work session when we did the CI step away and the discussion about the appropriate way of going with this UDO

was ultimately kind of discussed with the intent of the UDO being we've got to figure out a way of making sure that we don't have vacancies sitting around for a year or a year and 18 months. And I think that I think I think those are I think that's done in good faith as well. I think that's a statement in good faith which is trying to figure out how to do the shot clock and the mayor's already told he doesn't have objection to the shot clock. I think the question that we've got to talk about now is whether or not that proposal that was sent to the youth to the planning board that proposed change to the UV is ultimately where we need to go. or whether or not there [clears throat] needs to be a change in how that UBO is ultimately going to be addressed because of the concerns that as we are looking at this right now he wanted to vote on somebody mayor has not recommended him he has said he is not going to he not have the ability to vote up and down and close these 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 vacancies that we have open. That's great.

If it's um three, four, five, six, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 that are currently needing action.

Yes, I didn't get to finish. I was talking about current vacancies, but we can talk about current and projected vacancies because we have terms expiring when?

December. That's how many months away [laughter] I know. Three months away. But I bring that up because we've got terms that have expired for for that same period of time. And if it took us, you know, a little over nine months in some instances, six months in other instances to get these things cleared away. My

confidence in our ability to solve this problem in three months is I must say uh not high confidence is not high in that. So I think the larger picture needs to be addressed which is the filling of these positions is something that the council has said on numerous occasions is very important. They provide guidance, they provide input, they provide opportunities for community to be involved. Closing these things out at the first opportunity should be something that we should really look at seriously. I think my colleague comment that, you know, we don't want to leave just the open-ended question out there and I think that's right. I think that's I think that's the appropriate view to take. So, as we look at where to go, I think the question we've got to ask ourselves is will that current proposal as viewed by the planning board yesterday, is that going to ultimately solve the problem? And my argument is that it will not. I think the language needs to be changed so that it's the mayor may make recommendations and remaining and keeping the remaining portions so that if there is an action by the person sitting in the position of mayor it does not hold up the process

is not section does

yeah that's why I said when I say we keep section so great and I think I shared this at the beginning there are many dynamics she has processed the mayor is currently sitting at the seat has not process again last

question. So I will make a motion continue the provision of the advisory board appointments to the 22nd. They appear under the town clerk's portion of the agenda. second. So either way, we're not going to get these appointments. No recommendation. Uh so motion or not continue at some future date might be the 22nd might be something but I you know me not seconding the motion is expressing my frustation you know sponting these these nominations time and time again I make that point earlier I think of disrespect for people serving in these positions It's big. I think it's disrespectful to that client and you know I think we need our job.

It's clear you got

I would like [clears throat] to make a motion that um become policy that all vacies appear on

every meeting going forward.

Thanks. Sorry

that all vacancies automatically appear on every motions no complications vacancy sessions all the details around me in this but I may just soing your Well, because I I second it perhaps prematurely, but I second what you said. So,

got a bunch of appointments that expire on July 1.

We should operating.

What I'm saying is all vacancies would be July 15th. We've gone past that period for SEC is now open. I'm saying expire terms. So when the process were ideally to work already to happen, they'll just be there until we're ready to go.

Yeah. No.

No, I got it. That's why second

you know someone expires July 1 [clears throat] if we put it out there and we don't have candidates that also be a reason we need a vote. on the motion motion on the motion first or at least there needs to be a second in order to make that motion because I've already

motion and you made a second correct

then you have a motion that you're discussing. Yeah. Yeah.

And and the motion is is that all vacancies that currently exist or or expired terms rather do I would say because we have we do have some people that are holding over um in positions that would otherwise be vacant. So we do have some people that are holding over. So expired terms andor vacancies will appear under the town search report at every meeting until they're acted on is what I'm hearing. the process that we want to see happen that I understand the mayor's request but kind of feels like a bit of a a compound for us going last point I made we do our job get these positions let them just show up making decisions on every agenda you know whatever whatever the reason for their [clears throat] regard to recruit people which doesn't really seem to be a problem or just move forward to the recommendation. So I support the motion that's made on

and I I do want to draw at least some contrast to the issue of we don't have qualified candidates to apply because my understanding is reading the UDO be more than happy to hear people tell me I'm wrong but all that requires is that the man in other parties in order for what

for for recommendation doesn't there's no there's no commentary with regard qualification background

other than whether they're a resident of DTJ or otherwise

correct

but but I do think the rules of

procedure does speak to that there's an application

right there

in a separate rules of procedure there is [clears throat] rules. I mean independent of that rule procedure says mayor makes a recommendation

to clarify that recommendation you know isn't binding in a sense. Oh yeah. No, no. I think that's that's going to be the change. I think that's going to be the change that will ultimately the the thing that I want to make sure we are addressing is the problem of this mayor doesn't make a recommendation. We're sitting on an open mayor makes a recommendation, we all vote it down or doesn't care, then we still have the same problem of a vacancy. So what we've got to do is be creative enough to think about how do we solve the problem? The problem is the vacancy and we're not getting the appointment or recommendation from the mayor,

but we still have the vacancy because that's the stop gap right now.

That's the right 30 days,

right? Yeah. And that's why I say that's where this is going to solve the current problem current that we have here. No recommendation, no moving forward.

Like today, we have no recommendation. No moving forward. Well, until something changes, I guess to get a recommendation.

I still think that the language I agree and I think the language in D should be more permissive as opposed to shall to may. That way, it gives the mayor flexibility to say, listen, I there's a bunch of folks who I don't want to pick from or there's a bunch of folks that I know or there may be a conflict or something else like that in this group of applicants. [clears throat] It shouldn't hold up the To that point, I also point out we're under no obligation once we get

under no forcing function where someone question.

I think the UDO says that somebody was ATJ or 18 and lives within our jurisdiction,

right?

U procedure, but that's more of an explanation, but UD minimum has qualification.

But so do we I mean at the end of the day it's council's job to make people if council believes by majority that somebody is not qualified whatever the reason I don't think we need to specify any birthation right so So unless there there's so we have an application right and so just like with a job interview like you read the resume and you believe the candidate is not a right again that's an individual decision that each of us needs to make

right I don't think we can capture in a few words what qualified means for every single position that's out there because somebody I believe might be well qualified for the parks and advisory boards might not be the right person on the board of any board of adjust. for legal background.

I clarify your question separate from this. Don't we have a motion on the table?

Okay. I didn't know I didn't know how this fit. the specific language on second discussion.

Okay. But I mean we're talking about this stuff and it seems different from what from the motion itself. Okay. So, looking at the North Carolina League of Municipalities, they have started their uh by legislative goal setting process for 2728. Um and so part of this activity today, hopefully all of you have your phones. Uh we're going to ask you to scan a QR code and submit um some responses so that we can get a consensus built on these priority areas. So, finance and revenue, infrastructure, economic development, disaster recovery and resilience, housing and new development, land use and growth, local authority and governance, and operations. These are the categories set by the League of Municipalities. Um, and this process will help inform our own time of apex government relations agenda. And we have um a point kind of at the end of this activity um for JP to walk us through um what we envision the town of Apex's process to be. Um so again um the legislative goal setting process. There is a legislative summit coming up on September 30th that will be held in Winston Salem. This is for all um members that are part of the league. Um so about 550 municipalities or so um that are that are invited to participate. Um each of those categories

will be asking council to rank one through five. Five being your highest priority um one being your lowest. Um and then what will happen next is we are asking you all to designate um an individual from the elected body. Mayor Pton currently serves on the legislative policy committee with the league. Um so designating him to submit um the responses on behalf of the town. Uh there will be a discussion at that legislative summit on September 30th and then the legislative policy committee um will kind of talk about where they see the items falling down. This is a calendar at a a quick snapshot for you. We're at step two of a eightstep process. So we're very early on um in this development phase. Uh, Mayor Proto, I don't know if you want to speak to any of the developments of the legislative policy committee um, at this time.

Really, I mean, we're going through broadly the same last year where they have these sessions surveys for all the towns and then staff is going to go through the next couple steps and bring them into groups and then the work of the committee is to uh, kind of pump stuff between the groups and decide on the final step through a series of staff driven exercises. Lot of fun. Okay. So if you will um scan this QR code here for finance and revenue focus and then there should be a setup question.

[laughter]

It's asking me to sign in or

refresh.

Refresh. You should be good.

Yeah, it was making you use an Apex and C. So, you should be good now.

Just refresh.

Yes. Some of these are

sorry municipal the legislative policy committees category. So

they are meant to be brief. specific. Um so for those also listening the categories are diversifying revenue streams authority, state funding and partnerships, general municipal finance and then of the categories the bottom um you you're ranking two. We've got one submission so far, two, three. There's no right or wrong answer. There's also a sheet at your table. Um, I talked about the main question here. For the stars, one star is least

concern. That's correct. Five. Okay.

Yeah, that's right. Anybody else? Move on to the infrastructure focus area. [laughter] I got to keep walking up here.

Okay,

infrastructure you submitted. as Yes. The last

This is the new one, right?

This is the new one. That's right. We have no resp.

One minute.

Okay. [laughter] Thank you.

Next one.

This a new I have to get used to it. Lots of practice.

Yeah. That one square to scan it. or four or Disaster relief.

ask me to sign

or

for this

uh refresh permission. responses actually housing and community development. We got two. Great. Thank you, bro.

local authority in government.

[laughter] [clears throat]

You got one more cap.

Which category?

Local authority and government.

Where am I? We

got four.

[clears throat]

The final one is municipal capacity and operations.

[clears throat]

You ready?

Okay, I'm done. Okay. And then I will email these results. Um, is there a motion to designate?

Second.

I did not. [laughter]

I'm okay. and then JP's gonna walk us through kind of our plan.

All right. So, what you kind of just did here was part of the mun process for what they're doing to kind of refresh their leg agenda. And one of the things that and I have been talking about that we're wanting to get set up is more of a formalized and process for our own internal kind of government relations. Um and the first thing um and main thing that we'll want to establish the start is a cross collaboration team. This will consist of the clerk's office, the manager's office, legal um and representatives from departments across the town. Um and it'll essentially be the central hub for evaluating and discussing legislation particularly during session. Um these will be the folks who the most um going to be a lot of department directors um involved with that. Um but it'll be the people who are providing feedback on pieces of legislation that are in the general assembly. Um we will be giving that feedback to checkmate our lobbying a lobbying group to know exactly where the the kind of pressure points are in certain pieces of legislation. um so they can take that um and do their

work with us uh who do their work for us um on behalf of that. So essentially we will act as the uh go between between the lobbyist firm and with this staff members to try and keep communication collaboration very high. Um that's the main thing with the proactive legislation monitoring. Um, we want that to be want to kind of have a mechanism by where staff can provide feedback um and concerns that they may have on pieces of legislation as well as parts of the legislation that they think are beneficial or things that we want uh that we want to inform checkmate of what we want them to be looking for prioritizing. Um, another uh another aspect a public dashboard for impact. This is an idea that that we had floated and are considering. This wouldn't be a position necessarily of the town like whether the town is for or against a certain piece of legislation, but for example um if a piece of legislation has or may potentially have a positive or negative impact, this would be a way um that staff could provide that to us and then we could kind of put it out there as kind of an objective. Here is here is what staff believes the impact of this will be to the town and its operations. just from a kind of transparency perspective there. Um, specifically on the legislative priorities refresh, this is another component that we're going to be wanting to work with this evening on. Um, we're hoping to get kind of a similar schedule to the one you saw before. um something similar to this to you in the next few weeks in regards to what we are wanting to do uh to kind of go through the collaboration process um for the legislative priorities. Uh we want it to be an engaging process across um the elected officials um the staff through this collaboration team and in the community as well. Um, you know, we want to see if we can get something like

a survey house in the community, give them some uh some time to digest it, give them give their feedback to us. Um, so that you all have not only staff and your own discussions on it, but you also have an aspect of what the community wants to see um in your legislative priorities approach. Um, and then we're hoping to kind of kind of have that leading into all that leading into kind of the February retreat time frames um either before or during where that where that comes back up to to be refreshed. Um, project funding catalog. Uh, this is another idea that we've had in regards to this cross collaboration team. One of the things that we want to do is put together um essentially a repository of different projects that either in the works or plan to be in the works in the future for the town. Any different department, small projects, big projects, um anything. The main reason we want to have something like this is you want to get information together on project timelines, project funding requirements, what the specifics of the project are, and have that in a central location um for multiple reasons. one so you all can see those projects that we can connect with our legislators on those projects and provide that to them so you hear some of the things that we're planning but we also would have it available when any grant or funding opportunities did come up lots of times those are pretty quick turnarounds as far as when we first learn of them weeks in some cases so we have a lot of this brand work already done we're not having to run around and try to figure out okay you guys have any projects that fall under this we may already a project identified and then we can kind of skip some time and um focus on the application. Um and then finally talk a little bit about legislative daily vision. Um that would be for kind of early part of next year. So typically February March time frame um and what we're we're wanting to do with that is of course invite our legislators at the general assembly potentially federal level to come in. Um, you know, we can

always, uh, give a talk with them, you know, have a presentation, but the main thing we really want to focus on is going out into the community, picking a few key projects, um, that we want to highlight for them so that they can see specifically like here is this piece of land or, you know, we're going out to this park. Here's what we're envisioning. having staff and the subject matter experts actually go out there with them along with all all of you um and actually you know see have them see here here's what we're wanting to do it's not just a slide this is the actual location here are the details you know over here here's how we exactly envision this so we're hoping to have you know maybe two or three different projects that we can take them around um Apex to see to kind of give them more of a connection to the actual projects themselves rather than just spreadsheet or a poweroint. And then it also give you an opportunity as we're going around for you all to to be networking with our legislators um and to be strengthen strengthening our relationships with them as [clears throat] they continue to advocate for us. So that's just a brief overview of some of the things that are in the pipeline for our kind of government relations strategy. Is there anything else you wanted? questions.

Thank you for doing this. This is um you know one of the tough parts about this entire process is working with our legislative legislative actions is making sure that we're much more on the proactive side as opposed to reactive. So, uh, my my thanks to our town clerk and JP for putting this together because it gets us as a town into a different scope when it comes to dealing with these issues. I mean, things like having a legislative day where people get a chance to see the impact of dollars helps them understand that when we're asking for money, this is a specific project that's been done. Here's the specific impact and then getting a chance to see the impact on the community. So it's I I I want to applaud

both for for doing this because it may seem like a small point but the impact on this small movement is going to be huge. So thanks thanks for what you did on this.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I definitely agree. Especially when the general assembly is back in session, those bills can come through very quickly. Um sometimes they can sit on them for six months and sometimes they shove them through the whole process within a week. So we kind of have to have this background ready so that we are able to respond in situations where things moving very fast. So we have the communication channels established to be able to respond accord.

I have a question.

Yeah. So um for this uh league of municipalities they are a organization right? So what's their role um for them you know to uh interact with the state you know uh NC you know uh general assembly to form the good you know um policies to help our municipalities.

Well I would see them as being another avenue that we utilize you know um as part of our advocacy work. Um, so we have regular check-in calls with the league just like we do our with Checkmate or our or individual lobbyists. Um, if you look at a lot of the municipalities, they they do not have active lobbyists. And so the league is a member-based organization that is advocating for them um from from a statewide perspective. So So they're going to not always focus on legislation that may be specific to Apex. they may help us or have a strategy as it relates to them, but they're going to be looking at um larger sweeping bills that may have an impact across all municipalities or municipalities like I think this past year there was some legislation, you know, counties that are 20,000 or more.

And so that's a majority of our counties in North Carolina. So I see them as being more big picture and certainly a partner as we look at this process. generally they uh act like uh lobbyist for the you know almost all municipalities.

That's right.

Okay.

And and this is one the the government relations team if you will at the league is one component of the league. You know they have um comp uh claims kind of a area risk management area. know they have membership engagement where they hold trainings and conferences and those kinds of things. Um and so this government relations is one division if you will of the broader league.

One quick question day as far as our be part of the

Yes. Yes. Yes. And the the calendar that kind of started with that the league has developed is is what we're working to put together for this program. And so as we head into um kind of this, we'll have one for the town of Apex so that you can kind of follow along as to where we are at each stage in the process. Good job.

It's a small.

First of all, good afternoon, mayor, council. Thank you for having me at the the last moment that I think is very important conversation to have, one that we've been having for many years now. Um, today we're going to talk about a status update. I'm going to go over that really quick and then we'll get into uh grass clippings. Uh, we'll talk about the ordinance amendment uh that we hope to bring on the 22nd council meeting.

And then the third bullet point there is related to um the request to check the feasibility of transitioning to a car model. One of those really related to what do you do with co-mingled waste and and where will it be disposed of? That was key factor. U so I'm going to go ahead and get started but I will uh be brief on the ordinance implementation given the time. um transition has gone extremely well really according to the playbook. Um I think the smooth transition that we've had, kudos to our communication staff. They have done a great job. Our internal staff, our drivers have been out there educating residents. Uh one of the things that we did was implement a tax system where hey, your pile was non-compliant. And uh I'll I'll be quick, but in July we issued uh 68 non-compliant notices in 52 of those 68 uh in July, three resolved themselves in August, five resolved themselves. Uh but overall uh surprisingly um about a third of those 68 tags, actually 26 in July and 15 in August, the town collected as a courtesy. We went to the resident, we showed them why their pile was black and white. We helped educate them. That is our whole game plan. We are out here to try to educate the residents and using the tagging system has been very popular. Now, excess waste fees. Um in August we had 20 uh excess waste uh fee collection, $2,480 of revenue. And in uh August we had 15, which is about 1,760. Now, surprisingly, you know, we have level one, two, three, and four in two cubic yard increments. Uh, 23 of those fell at the level one. So, uh, out of

the 35 total paid piles collected. Um, majority of them, 23 were $80, five of them were $160. Two of them were $240. one level four $320 and one level five $400. So just in that short period of time, we helped residents that had great big piles collect those piles and they were willing to pay. Um very surprisingly, we've had very very little push back. Um most people know of the ordinance. We obviously, as you can expect, have some that didn't know about the ordinance or whatever. Well, those are the ones that we have with the the tax. So, we will continue on how you would get that. Uh we will go ahead and continue uh with the education component as we have uh previously shared with um I plan to do uh depending on uh I guess agenda items and timing maybe about six months in we'll give an update on just kind of how the transition's going. Uh but we can determine that somewhere in the future. Um grass clippings. Um I had prepared the handout there for you. Um this was a last minute deal. I'm afraid that we might run into some time issues, but I wanted to bring this council up to speed of kind of the reality of where we are. Uh I felt like it was important. This is this is not something this council has done. This is just the evolution of where we are as a town, how we managed our grass clippings. Um and so the bottom line is that we recently at the August 11th meeting, uh council did approve a disposal agreement with

Liberty Waste Solutions, uh for everything but grass. We felt like we needed to secure everything that we could for a five-year term so we could make the transition to cars. Now, who knows what might happen with markets. If things happen and grass is able to be accepted for any reason or another, then we can bring that back. But we've got to move forward. So, we we need to let you know the realities of where we are um and how we got there. that um as part of that five-year agreement um I do have uh Dan Shields with us. I don't know if it's agreeable if anyone has questions if they can ask a person in the audience but if you need to talk with Mr. Shields you may remember in your August 11th uh packet there was a letter that explained what they did to try to accept grass and it was paragraph five. this point we've made every reasonable effort viable outlet for the grass material though both internal resources North Carolina DEEQ recommended external options and despite those efforts we have not been able to secure a facility willing to accept the material as a result we cannot accept the grass material I will tell you this firm did everything they could to help us they didn't just it wasn't their farm there was other composters around it's just one of those things that is that no one wants you know and the bottom line is we just cannot collect what we can't dispose of. So we have tried to put forward the disposal agreement of what we knew we could land on to keep the program viable and uh again that truthfully is is is the bottom. Um but I detail out a little bit about you know how we got here. um

how we four years ago almost five years ago our current disposal outlet limit us to 20 and that's what launched us on this path to try to figure it out and here we are five years later you trying to do our best to figure it out but I think it speaks volumes to staff that's done all that we know to do we've reached out to everyone that we know including you know I and the state, everybody, every person possible compost wise if they could. Um, but I I knew that I preached this message and I've shared it with you. It is real now. We we're trying to move forward. We can't keep looking hoping that we can take a place. We have to have guarantees. So, we've got guarantees on everything but grass. So, what we're asking for still, as we discussed at the February workshop, is to go ahead at the council meeting on the 22nd is to go ahead and bring forward that ordinance amendment to eliminate grass effective January 1 of 2027. Um, so that's why we wanted to come here and provide the details and have Mr. shields here in case you have anything related to to that time. Um, but it's it's it's difficult. I know we've tried, but the town infrastructure was never built to do accept this, process it, dispose of it, transfer it, and you can't make that happen overnight. We have tried to get a yard waste just a transfer yard for two years now here internally and it's still going through the process. There are deq [clears throat] permits. There's a whole lot to it and we just can't flip a switch and get

someone to take. We're super fortunate that we do have uh uh our disposal partner right here in our jurisdiction, which saves all the time and fuel, eliminates the need to have to have a transfer yard, eliminates the need to truck transfer great big loads somewhere else, not only of of grass material if we could accept it, but all types of yards. So, this this agreement really five years helps put us on really the truthful path trying to priceize this. I realize that you would like a different outcome with it. We've tried all we can do. That's just the reality. But I'm happy to take any questions on that part before we go to the feasibility alignment. If you've got questions about grass as next steps

and shields you come up here,

right? Thank you.

My question is

yeah Dan Shields Liberty We Solutions. Glad to be here and answer whatever questions I can.

So, give us just an overview of what you do with Liberty, what your current relationship with with Apex is before we get to the past question.

Sure. Uh, vice president sales and marketing and uh my uh partner Rick is the one who manages our post collection operations including transfer station here at Apex as well as our lands.

So, he was heavily involved in this process too.

Our trucks take it to your transportation. your trucks will take it to auto.

Yes. On 500 Christine.

Uh great. So can you talk a little bit about respect to the industry and what's going on with brass and why this is such a big deal and why is it a big deal for

Yeah. So um brass itself requires a different type of processing yard. Brass needs to be composted. It can't be mixed in with mulch like the rest of the yard waste can. We don't have a composting facility or operation in our footprint but also at impact. So we can't take in the product because we can't process it correctly. Therefore, we don't take it in at all. There are other facilities that do composting. Shamrock McGill, they're two of the ones that we contacted when we try to find an outlet for your grass. They're at capacity. They don't want anymore. So, we can't take it in because we can't process it. we can't take it in and transport it to somewhere else because we couldn't find an outlet for it. Therefore, it's just an unacceptable material for us to have.

To follow up on that question, I we can pretty much envision that basically all the John and we can pretty much envision that, you know, neighbor neighboring communities that are still blowing grass, they're they're looking at the same type of that we're on right now.

Yeah, absolutely. We've had conversations with all of them. Uh some of the folks that he talked to about the other facilities had already contract that capacity. We tried to contract that capacity. What happened? Uh I think what's happening is just because we didn't have the infrastructure, we were forced to to deal with it. I think it's a matter of time most likely. Dan, he's in that industry. He'll know better than I. But I think it's just the timing, you know, putting our best foot forward and not just hops skipping. We've got to have disposal comp to make our capital plant normal.

Yeah. To just follow up with your point, [clears throat] some of these other places already had contracts in place, which is why the composting places are at capacity. So it is just a matter of

time.

So if their contracts aren't expired, then they're going to be right back in the same position that we are in. But we'll at least be ahead of the game on them because we have a piece of plan for five years. We'll beat them to the punch.

What What is the specific problem or the difference with grass versus other yards that might can not be mixed or no longer?

Sure. Great question. Um, grass clippings themselves a often have a high level of, you know, pesticides or herbicides in it. Uh, b it often can go to seed. Um, so when it's mixed in with mulch, there are two of the main issues. It's actually illegal to mix in grass clippings with our mulch and then resell it. It has to go through a separate processing essentially compost. So there's that. That's why there's the separation between yard waste and specifically grass clippings. Um, including the extreme amount of volume generated. Look, we get it. People show up. There's a couple of grass clippings here and there. When you're talking tons of material showing up, that's just that needs to have specific dedicated resources to process it. Correct.

John, you you you did mention you alluded to, but do we as a town have the ability to go out and create this ability just to store our own grass someplace.

No. So, we are trying to get a transfer yard in the event they would have uh any downtime or anybody. So, the town needs to be prepared in case we've got to store some material. So, we're trying to get a transfer yard. That's just for the transfer. It still has to go somewhere else which is machinery and equipment permits. Um you still have to have the composting part of it. Problem we have is that's a mixture. That's feed stock. How much grass, how much uh woody

material, how much leaf material. And most towns cannot do it. Raleigh is able to do it. But there to Dan's point, you can use grass and mix it a little bit and make dirt. At the end of the day, a soil amendment is is off. But the problem we would have is just scalability and uh it would be so expensive. in my opinion to even try to go that

and you wouldn't want to store grass clippings without the compost facility. Grass clippings themselves create heat and that creates fire hazard over time. That's why if you've ever seen like composting facilities, they're constantly turning the piles over so that it dissipates the heat that's creating it. If it's stored by itself for a period of time, it itself will create a fire hazard. Thank you.

Thank you.

But I I knew that it would be very beneficial for council know how we got here. We've just been able to limp along, but we've grown so fast. So just think five years how much we've grown when we first got first notice of limitations on unwillingness to take but just ex my loss. Um

I do have questions. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Um the next item that I want to talk to you about is um requested action on the transition to uh yard waste containers. We're at a inflection point where budget needs to know for starting the capital plan what the direction is. Now during the workshop uh you basically approved our option two which was a phased approach to this where we've already got budgeted uh half of the truck assets in the current budget. We don't want to pull the trigger on that until we know that council's in alignment and intends to uh

uh address it in the budget session. So we talked with uh attorney Welch and he said that right now all that was being required is just formal authorization to move forward. The other reason is we want to plan our messaging our communication. So it's important not only on budget but for communications uh that we have that direction that yes council is is ready to move forward to containerization. So in and I could have it wrong, but I believe the essence of of the February meeting, I believe it was February retreat, was that that council wanted to study the feasibility of the transition. And the big component for me that I knew that you would need to know, we needed a commitment to be able to take the containerized yard weights. We now have a contract in place and a PO has been issued with a fiveyear uh agreement. So that part is is great. We can easily transition. Um but we need your direction uh to be able to to do this. Whether this is this meeting, which I know it could be, or if it's preferable for the 22nd, that would be council's prerogative. What we would like to try to have is at least a verbal approval to transition the containers. Now, happy to answer any questions. I think we've we've talked a lot about this in previous sessions and I think that's where we are certainly headed but I just need to be available to answer any questions to try to see if we can't get that through just seem consistent with what we have previously discussed and the direction that we have any two things that first off um question uh 95 gallon park is that one per property.

It is when I have more uh yard waste than just 95 gallon

residents can can have other parts and remember we now have special collection. So if for some reason you needed an additional collection and you didn't have enough to go through, the town could work with you on collecting any excess yard waste. But residents can order one is just standing, but just like you can have a lot of residents have two recycle carts, some residents have two trash carts, but that's completely one is what's issued, but the residents have the option of getting more, but they could have One second. Thank the followups on that. Um they actually kind of go opposite directions. Um one is are neighboring municipalities. How many parks are folks allowed to have a program like?

I I think uh I think Raleigh just through the capital I think they limit it to two.

Okay.

Uh my neighbor has two in Holl Springs. And I don't know if Holly Springs has a limit, but my neighbor has one for his front yard, backyard.

Yeah, I was just in Kerry over the weekend and my and I saw some houses four carts out.

Um, is that an additional charge in this?

It is. It might be like the same monthly fee for whatever uh same service. Um,

the next question is um for the HOAs. uh that have restrictions on parks. Um what what um process do you have there? Because obviously I can imagine living in a neighborhood where I have um

perhaps even limited uh uh space in terms of my propert. My my property right now is.187 acres which probably count square feet, right? And so there's very little space for additional carts. Um I could probably find a place in my house. Um but I know some neighbors not too far, literally a stones throw that would have difficulty complying with HOA restrictions and also being part of this program. So what help me reconcile how we roll that out in a way that's that's um Medusa.

Sure. I think I I shared the example of Holly Springs and 12 Oaks where we met with their HOA board and what they did is they granted a year to enlarge enclosures. They had actually one vendor that came in and helped people up up fit it. Even though it sounds like much, it's not much longer than this thing. That that's real. I get it. But most of the time you can fit in your corral. Uh some of them are already built in with maybe a foot extra width. So it doesn't take long to wide it. That's if their HOA requires screening and it has to be screened. But uh what 12 Oaks HOA board has just had a year that was you know you had a year to get in compliance. So they they were supportive of the ordinance. But that's just one of those things we'll talk with HOAs. We'll make it work. And so that was going to be my recommendation is just um a proactive um upfront won't use the word aggressive but um uh highly responsive um education and um negotiation campaign.

Absolutely. And our communications can certainly help us with that. And I'm always thinking that in terms of HOA

board meetings and neighborhood uh uh meetings at club houses and things where people can you know see in the flesh and ask the questions.

That's the best way. Absolutely. Community engagement. I see Brian's hand up too. We just kicked off what's it called again?

Neighborhood program. So we are more than happy to support that. We already do our neighborhood meetings. Um we make a point to make sure that we are proactively meeting around. So, I'm actually emailing you now.

The neighborhood leaders program is like an HOA of HOA

for anyone who doesn't know that

you had a question.

Okay, you're done. Okay. So my question is um some residents who if they request two cars right so their monthly face things will be double

it just be for the cart other words each cart have its own fee

uh or yardway service will have its own fee. Now, one thing that we do have the opportunity because it is another budget cycle, we can work with our budget team to see what that that car is, it could it's typically the same because of the complexities in billing, utility billing system, the way our trash works now and recycling, it's extra cart. The second one is just however many you get. I anticipate it'll be that way, but there's always the opportunity to work with our budget team to see if there's a better

Oh, okay. The charge is just for uh the second cart

and our um public um works department will pick up if that they have two cars just pick up two cars without extra cost.

That's right.

That's good to know.

What if three cars the same?

Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.

Okay. We are happy to pick it up. So it's a onetime charge.

It it's basically per cart. So what happens is they get the cart

and we are on it. It's you know your build month. So we just come every time it's collected.

But it's per cart charge,

right? It is a per cart charge.

There's a monthly fee. If I have two cards, I pay more than one.

That is correct.

Yes.

Monthly fee for each cart.

Yes, ma'am. Okay.

And that's standard pretty much anywhere you go as part.

Okay.

Based on if you want more, you just pay question

I don't understand charges charges. implications. We stop collecting grass,

we pay on a per ton. So, so basically uh you will see a reduction in our overall disposal which helps us bridge the gap of our cost. You're buying less fuel, you know, you're stopping. You still have yard waste, but you don't have the tonnage in the volume and we pay tons. So part of getting this program rightsized is is factoring that already. Uh again, as we get into budget planning, once we launch and we see what our disposal numbers are, that's going to be a direct budget impact.

But our our yard waste charges prior to the current budget year less than full cost.

Exactly. So this bridge

we raised up this help avoid cost is increasing less.

Correct.

Okay. We've got communications now. Not sure who's going to be doing that with those stacies. Great. Come on down.

We said you have 10 minutes like 10 consecutive minutes. [laughter] I don't know. 10 a piece, 10 per person.

I'm just going to skip what we are really interested in right now, which is letting our residents know service and that starts in October. So, midocctober. So, for our skip through to the to the different slide. So, uh the first round of communications really heavily involved in our ordinance changes. So, le or limb size and pile size, things like that. So, we're communicating heavily on like one of four topics um at a time. Of course, we're talking about everything at once, but really focusing in on these four separate topics all at once. So, that we've already done that. The airways ordinances um that happened in July. That was a major communication. This next emphasis is moving to bi collection. So, October 19th begins our B connection. We have a draft of the postcard that we're still revising for you guys. We'll send that out. um in the next few days after we get that final revision done. Um but letting people know uh there's two specific seasons for yard waste. There's a peak leave season um though and at that point you have an assigned week and your collection can happen at any time that week. So you're going to want to put your your waist out on Monday morning. But during regular season, which is most of the year during less volume, you're you will have an assigned collection day and your assigned collection day might that it is now might change. So there's a map resource um that we're going to be pointing our residents to making sure that they're signed up right next either through the mobile app or the website to ensure that they're receiving information directly from schedule. So bi-weekly collection is our big big thing right now. And then we will move

to as we move towards the grass season, we'll really start hitting on collection at that point and then we'll do a reminder campaign in spring when people really start getting out in their yards and then we'll start start talking about carts whenever that comes into play. But those were the major themes. Of course, they were talking about all of those topics the whole way through. um they're really hitting home with certain topics during those questions about communication. Can we continue to hammer in the distinction between yard waste and grass? Because I think people think yard waste sometimes you're thinking grass and I know internally because we've been conditioned as well.

We we talk in terms of yard waste understanding what that grass something else but I'm not sure we're conveying that to a good point. maybe an area.

It's been kind of a gray area, no open intended, um that we're really sure grass and so now for sure we will make sure to separate um material. [laughter]

Okay. Um just to be clear so by weekly collection um just for normal seasons but during the peak seasons right we collect more frequently we are going to start bi-weekly collection which is every other week um starting October 19th until the end of time. So that is the whole year through now moving to every other week during peak leaf season. um your your collection might be sort of at any time that week that you're assigned be. But during regular season, you will have an assigned day. It'll say Wednesday is your day. You should put your waist out. No earlier than 48 hours

before.

Okay. Just a black spot during the

Yeah. I think the volume like we can't exactly guarantee it's going to be Monday or Wednesday or Tuesday.

Okay. Got it. Yeah. Thank you. [clears throat] And we have we have two items planned for the 22nd,

right?

Yes. Uh the ordinance uh on the 22nd, the ordinance uh to eliminate grass effective uh January 1st, 2027. You may remember it was actually in the May 28th agenda and we we pulled it. It's the same basically it's the same ordinance. So we're bringing that forth on the 22nd for action. and then the uh path to uh transition to yard waste car. So those two items will be your uh requested on the 22.

Can you say it again? Everyone can hear how leave collection work.

How is leave collection going to work? So basically everyone puts out their leaves on either their awe beginning October 19th and the following week is the B week uh and then we flip flop according to the schedule

on the curb or in the containers.

What's that?

On the curb or in the containers?

We won't have containers yet.

When we do have

But when we do have containers, we do both.

When we have containers, we want you early and often to put your leaves out.

You got some overflow. You got it. We're going to do both.

Yes. Yes. Now, you know, some some communities have gone to just carps only and uh it just depends on the lots. You know, if you've got a a lot, they're just not going to fit the carp. But you will be surprised how leaves push down if you just push them down. If you don't try to push them down, you don't get any if you keep pushing, pushing, pushing. But the hope is that first initial when they drop and it's weather

dependent. Uh when they drop, take advantage of your collection, your bi-weekly collection. So every time we're there to collect, have it out, have it out, have it out. And then what happens is the leaf start, depends on the type of trees, it starts to Wayne. Your cart just picks in. Sucker trucks don't have to work as hard. They're still out. But the carts would then uh would would be ineffective.

Um you said both. I mean either uh curbside or clean the cart. So I guess some people may just like to put the curb side.

Yeah. Because we've got the vacuum trucks. There may be people that don't even put their car because they know we're going to be vacuum. But we realize there'll be smaller lots who will not have the volume. So then we come in and do that too. But we're we're also I want to say they're less reliable, but going forward relying more on carts and less on

the trucks and suck up. So if you are someone that chooses to do that, that service may not be as reliable as the service or the carts.

Correct. So carts, we anticipate picking those up all the time. Relief trucks, we've had a lot of maintenance issues with those. They go down. So you may have these out in front of your house longer if you are relying on that. It's fair enough.

That's perfect. Well,

you may have some seniors, they prefer, but just cur. Yeah. So probably do we have um a plan that if you know some senior they call said we just show them please make sure your volume truck just to come by and pick the yard

and you know it'll be once we get transition it'll be a learning curve but I think we'll truly dial in we'll know

what neighborhoods are typically heavier on on the leaves as far as where we've got to use that leaf act but I think you'll see some people that like to roll If you rake your le if you use a blower, that's one thing. But if you rake, you're going to rake and have them way over there and you kind of hit them with the road, you're going to roll that cart that pile. I did it last year. It's great because you just put your leaves at the point of collection, push them down, go to your next pile. Um, but for those that blow, we we understand that they'll just blow them out. So,

can I ask about composting?

Sorry.

I know composting. Um, are there any services that you've seen? And this comes back like 20 years ago different states. We had yard waste containers. They also store food in it. So, it's a compost,

too. Off of that.

Great segue. So, we have had conversations with compost. Now, as you know, they're the provider around us in Kerry and everywhere else. uh they've been interested in is Apex interested in a food waste, you know, thing. First of all, they can already I think they actually have customers in Apex who subscribe to their service.

Yeah, we we've told them about our issues with with grass collection and food waste and everything. I would not be surprised if they don't potentially consider offering food waste doortodoor subscription and maybe bagged grass potentially for those that just do not want to grass cycle that'll be expensive and it'll be an option and I can't speak for a private company but we have we have encouraged them to consider could it be part of their subscription model to offer a service that service to

residents that truly do not, you know, want to deal with. Now, as you see in the handout, remember that contractors [clears throat] are uh required to remove their grass clippings already. This would just be an extension for those folks that don't use a contractor that want to do it themselves, that haven't tried mulching. I think if people try mulching, they'll find out they don't really want to pay to to have someone pick up a bag of grass, but that's a private business that, you know, I'm not involved in. But I do think the light bulb has gone off that they it might be their segway to get food place business, you know, but they've got to work out what to do with it as well. And that's the whole dilemma. They've all got that problem. But if a private contractor has a way to deal with it, that that's great if someone wants to subscribe to that type of service. So we are we are having conversations around that just just opening up options for serving as a resource. Appreciate the hard work on this. I think it's always important to remind those who are there but those in the room that this has been a four and a half year long runway that we've been on. And to be absolutely clear, if we had the choice of not doing anything and maintaining status quo, probably would have done that because it's a lot easier. The tough part is if we collect it and don't have any place to put it, we've got a problem and we can't collect because we don't have a place to put it. And I know that the tough part I appreciate the work that you you guys have all been doing with, you know, talking to neighbors about the yard waste and letting them know about the

size of piles and stuff like that because it's I think it's making a a big difference when people are saying, "Oh, I didn't I always thought I just leave this pile of lumber out here and you guys would just take care of it." So, the one-on-one communications, I know one of my neighbors in particular, had conversations and literally was like, I didn't know that was a thing.

Yeah.

So, and and you guys ended up taking away. So, it's those one-on-one communications are absolutely key. And I know even though we're geographic, it's about

taking the time to do that. It's it's not only critical and important, but something you guys take it seriously. So, my hats off to you on that. I think it's going to be incumbent upon us as council to make sure that we are singing and talking about this transition because the thing that is I think the most divisive component is if there's the idea that someone is saying well you know I I don't really like it but you know it's something that we've got to do or or well you know I wish we didn't have to change as well. I think the uni unonymity of voice will ultimately help you guys out with this because this isn't a decision that is being made simply because we're just looking for something to do. I mean, this is a okay, we got a runway that's been on for four and a half years. We've been trying to figure out every way of not having to deal with it and now we've got to deal with it. the plan that you're giving us is I think not only a fair one, but I think gives us a great deal of certainty economically, but I think also is gonna ensure that we're maintaining our role as being good environmental stewards. So, I think the way that you've got this is on the right track. It's up to each one of us to get out there and you know, I've had those conversations. My name is I know you guys had conversations with me. Why aren't you picking up my grass? Start to explain you know, they don't have a place to put it, things of that nature. It's that one-on-one

communication that makes a big difference. But this is a change for everybody. But I think, you know, based on what you guys have done, this is a change for the better. And all changes come, but this is one of those changes that I think in the long run are more useful for all of us, but it maintain our environmental safety standards and make sure that we're, you know, it's a great place to live. And for anybody who is looking for an Eagle Scout project, I am 90% sure that you create an Eagle Scout project to collect yard waste and to put leaves for your neighbors or just be a neighbor. Pick up your neighbor's leaves. I do it.

That's why I'm backwards.

Well, I thank you for that. And uh you know, I realize it's going to be a tough decision. I realize it's pace set this morning, but I will also say look at the sustainability and people mulch their grass. Half off are already doing it. No commercial landscaper that I know that's outing yards have a bag on their just don't see it. They're using mulch. So I truly think that the adoption will come. I think they'll be, you know, pushed back as as we intend, but I think moving forward, it is such a positive step. Even just the aesthetics, just having that on the curb, just imagine what that looks like for. But it's it's the the most sustainable economic best thing I think.

Thank you for that.

Thank you. Any other business? Assuming that was a long 10 Second.