Town Council Work Session - August 2026

I'm Just

Good afternoon everyone. started by standing to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation [clears throat] under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all your gohead agenda Changing license

I'll make a motion with one note just to say that as always whenever you see these sort of these sort of changes on the agenda it's usually not because we're adding stuff it's because we recognize we are biting off for I move second. I just want to make one introduction. I have special guest Apex High School also did the same time too many hours. He's got to get in close right now. Safety. Sorry.

All right. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, council. We're going to dive right in. We have uh as council member Gray alluded to, we have a robust agenda and not a ton of time. The goal just to

maybe help set expectations on time. We feel like you need at least an hour to talk about the building customer service piece. So, we're hoping to get through items two and three. Two I think will be quick. I know we have Mr. Car here from Rotary that's going to say a couple things. We're hoping to get through two and three and get into that billing issue. So, you're good. I'll dive in on Christmas update. We've got Lisa listed here. She's here to support if I have questions. I just got to give a quick overview and then ask Mr. So we will uh start in the the parade since we last spoke. The two big questions were the route and then any insurance issues related to that route. Route the parade will be as has been in the past through downtown. We don't know exactly what the condition roadway will be if one lane will be open or two lanes. We know at least one will be open. Uh so we're planning as if only one lane will be open and the size constraints that were I think Mr. Carmarmac said about eight floats that potentially would have to shrink down or change. My understanding is that maybe four have already acknowledged a change. We're still working with the other four, but they're still working the other four. Not that there's an issue, it's just working through logistics. Uh so any float that could not go if it was down to one lane you couldn't make the size constraints it would then turn off on Saunders and that would be the only divergent point of the parade route. So we feel like that may impact up to four floats now where we are so not a large number of but at the end of the day it may be no floats if those four can change or if both lanes end up being open at the time. So that's route and logistics. The other piece related to insurance and I'm sure Mr. product will talk about this. It's my understanding that their insurance provider, they've worked with our contractor and gotten the language all together and we're good to go on the insurance side. We'll turn it over to Mr. Carmarmac to address

that. Come on up if you want. Whatever you're comfortable with. You have back there. So, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for everybody's help to kind of get here. Um, I'll just briefly touch y'all got a big agenda. Um, we have worked with the insurance company. Um, we were prepared for that to be a more difficult conversation, but that was surprisingly easy. So, we appreciate the contractor knowing the situation working with us. Um, so that literally is a twohour type raification. So, that's that's done. We just got to ask for the paperwork to be done and the insurance [clears throat] company said they can do that in a one business day. So that's the only thing. But we're we're looking good shape. We're planning to open up registration on September 7th if we get the go ahead. Um I'm actually going down to Friendship High School this afternoon, this evening. We're going to mock up a marching band going through the current route as it sits right now. So, we're going to see what that looks like so we can inform the bands as to what we see and what we can anticipate. So, we appreciate Apex Friendship being willing to uh be that mockup holder for us. Um, but other than that, if I if I take a moment and just couple of new things or a couple of things is this year we're gonna one of the local businesses has reached out to us and we're going to have a sponsor for the Christmas parade that will dramatically increase the amount the Rotary Club's able to give to the nonpus. So, that will be announced here shortly. But, um, one of our local businesses was graciously came to us and how can we be a part of it? So that would increase our giving. Uh has reached out to us again. They want to participate. Um when we first started this last year was the first time we did this and

expectations were kind of low for what feedback we would get. They were maybe we could get 2,000 or so people. Their data shows that on the night of the Christmas parade itself, we had 6,3 thou 6,300 unique visitors live watching the parade and they've had since another 2,200 view it in on YouTube. So we're at 8,500 people. So um that has caught their attention. And to put that into perspective, that almost doubles what some of the other local agencies or the local other municipalities have done. So in perspective, we kind of double that. So that kind of raised their attention, but other than that, we look good. Hopefully we can progress downtown. But thank you.

Thank you. And I want to say, you know, it's interest you brought up the sponsors and special and the day are open. I'm not surprised everybody has a good day. Any questions for Miss Car? What's the next steps?

Uh so next steps said the parade will open up on the seventh. So from a logistics mention next steps. Well, I think we're waiting till October just found it by um we've got everything scheduled for either way. Make sure we can go forward, but we've got planned um to sort of make sure you got all the situations.

I think we're going to be

Thank you so much for that. So today

right now the the expectation is that we're going forward as normal with the break with the slight modifications that had to talk about with the potential before but everything else is business as usual from our perspective group. A couple questions. Some of the concern of this member was a contractor construction zone about liability. You're talking about insurance. Does that take care of now or we're good there?

Yeah. Yes. Um they looked at our general insurance policy that we have and that made met their needs. Um as as part of policy, we had the town as an additional insurer. So they just wanted to add the contractors additional insure as well as the county

right

but they were comfortable with our liability policy as it sets without any change

and the other kind of question I have is let's assume that we have one side

as it is bigger today so I guess the west side is still is still closed or you know so would we prevent spectators from being tied so they had between us so they're not It kind of depends on how much I know that certain things about that but it's kind of depend but as soon as we have a better sense where we're going to be in summer then we'll be satisf or cannot we do not think there's going to be that much of a impact last year

let me sit on that small little strip at the five for ADA so we are you know going to possibly open that up possibly not we did go ahead and we have the bleach again uh that we got so we feel like we're not that much um it'll just be a safety concern and it's really going to come down to where are We're we're proceeding that's why the department seeing that the worst case condition is now we could have great tomorrow. We're assuming that's the worst case condition. If it opens up, great. Wonderful. But that concept on that motion session session

All right, we're ready. All right, we're back in session. All right. Yes, sir. So, if you're good, we're gonna hit item number four. So, I'm gonna turn it over to Sean and John who have a presentation. It's Sean. You can start us off.

Yeah, I'll kick off. John's gonna council John's going to do most of the um discussion to start with and then I'll jump in and we'll go back to gentlemen. Uh we just we want to give you an update of where we are um with utility billing as it relates this is primarily as it relates to the past two accounts and then kind of show you the numbers and then discuss what challenges we're we see that are coming up and we want to go through based off trying to get back to standard procedures. Um, and then we also want to go into as we've gone through this, it's been a great learning experience to discuss what we want to change in kind of that customer service policy think practices procedures. And so we want to go over some of those things that we're putting together to change eventually we'll bring to you in a full policy program uh manual. Uh, and then some more immediate for some direction on some more immediate uh process pieces that we would like to change and we want to make sure we got some uh some buying consensus from the group before we do that. So with that, John, I'll just hold through just let me know when you look through on each one. But this this just kind of outlines what I just mentioned to you. We're going to do go to pass through accounts plan response. This is coming up and then some of the proposed changes. Um I do want to point out this stays the same. This really is what we're we're

focused on working off of in terms of the purpose and our guiding principles as we work through this. um making sure that it's about making sure we're um understanding our customers needs, working with them best we can and still fulfilling our responsibility to the town. Both there's a legal responsibility and you know and obligation um to the the management side. With that, I'll let John give you some updates on the numbers.

Uh okay. So, um, these are all, you know, as of about two week two weeks ago data. Um, we have 30,883 active customer accounts as of August. We have 4,000 customers who have passed due number. 3,600 of those are residential accounts. A little under 400 are commercial accounts. Uh, I give you some data on like what's the maximum what's the average pass due amount. Um, we have some residential customers who are quite large. That $19,000 is a little bit of an outlier. It drops down to 12, the next next highest one. The average on C the average on our residential account is $1,100 and then $1,800 for commercial for the total pass number. That's about 4.7 million. Um, it's about 1.9 is kind of what I might call medium-term pass due. It's between 30 and 90 days and then we have a little under three million is that long-term this is something that's been owed to the town for more than 90 days. This those totals don't include the payment plans which are so payment plans a little over 500 payment plans. Um only about $1.2 million was the ending balance as of July 31st.

[clears throat]

The vast majority of those are residential customers. We've only had about 10 commercials customers sign up for payment plans. Um just as a historical note, we've not typically

engaged in this practice. So operating in a pretty unusual scenario here. So that follows. Uh we have had 39 customers who voided their plans as of July 28. That was mostly due to non-payment mispayments or disconnections. is what I mean by disconnections which is they signed up for a payment plan for a couple of months and then moved out of Apex. Um so in those cases we consider that plan void because they're not going to be able to make payments after

in that case what is our requirement and or possibility to cover we are still aware that somebody owns money. So, are we still legally bound to go pursue those payments? And if so, how?

So, there's [clears throat] three things we can do. Two of which we are already doing. The first is we are a member of a it's a consortium that it's a service provider for like essentially bad debt for utilities. We use it for credit checks, things of that nature. But the other option we can do is we can send it to them. And so let's say they move out of Apex, they move into another utility service that also uses this portal. You know, we say they left Apex owing us $3,000. They try to establish service in Holly Springs just as a random stone road. Uh Holly Springs would be able to see that they owed the town money and then that would be a factor in whether or not Holly Springs established service. They might, you know, require a higher deposit. They might require them to get whole with us before. And the third thing we can do is we can refer to private debt collector agencies which is something the town hasn't really done in a while. So we're doing the and the last one is we send it to state debt set off which is basically like a garnishment service operated by the state. If they're owed any money by the state um before the state will pay them. The state would pay us is basically.

So they go out and they they they owe us $3,000. They buy a lottery ticket. They win. and they turn it into the lottery commission. The state's going to garnish the lottery winnings and pay the tiff to make us say

which out of those three are we doing?

We refer them to, you know, basically a network of other utility providers and we send it to debt. The only part we haven't we haven't done is actually look for private debt collector. We sell it to private debt collectors out

whether give me a sense as to whether that is utility providers.

My understanding is that's pretty unusual because you would disconnect to enforce collections long before it got to

but the situation you didn't have that option. So, how much uh what's the balance associated with security?

Uh it was only about $77,000 that it was pretty low. It was a fairly small portion.

And so for those that were reported because they didn't make payments, are they included in the numbers above?

No.

That ending number is the actual ending balance of payment plans that are established.

Uh I know the numbers are

Oh, uh no, no, those are just active customers. We don't report to credit.

Well, that is something. Yeah, that's a part of the

Yeah.

Yeah. So, people actually hear that they affect their credit score.

Yeah. Probably should think.

I know we don't questions or thoughts on so that's where

we are what the uncollected debt is the past two balances where we are um so what I want to go into now are these are some of the challenges that well we've worked through a lot but we've had two years now where we have we have standard process the first late fees have been instituted they were on this the most recent cycle one bill beginning this month that went out that'll be on the cycle too that is wrapping up now. Um, so those late fees are going on. That's one, you know, it's 1% of bill. That's what late fees are. Um, but that also kicks off going toward potential disconnects for non-payment. Um, and that the first cycle from that that would happen would be the end of September. So, it's it's just about a 90-day window for them. Um, on on that process, what we are preparing for is you've seen you see, let's see, let me go back to this. If you see this number here, um these are you know these this is a past two amount. These are people that have not set up hand plans even though we've been discussing this for seven months now since February at least you know February you know so six months. Um so we and we've put information out sent through uh bill inserts. It's been on social media. It's been newsletter. We we sent out about payment plans. What it means get on payment plan. We'll continue not to do disconnect, not to break. Um but you see the number of customers here. Uh primarily there's ones over 90 days. That's that's what's kicking into the disconnect. So you're looking at about 1,800, [clears throat] you know, 144 businesses, 1660 on the residents that are going to be subject for dispens. Um well, depending on the dollar amount, it's actually a little bit smaller, but um we we have a dollar amount threshold as well over the 90 days. Um but you look at some of those numbers, those maximums, that's the amount due and even

the averages. Um, so you can see that the maximums are really are outliers based on the averages are much lower than that. But that if if a resident comes and tries to set up a 12-month payment plan for $19,000, they're still not going to be able to make payment and they're still going to end up in a situation where they're subject and that's a concern for us. Our goal is not to disconnect service. Our goal is to provide is provide clean reliable water, safe, reliable energy and then there's paper for the use of that service. That's that's our that service provision is what we're out. It's not disconnect. So, we're trying to work through what that looks like. um knowing that we do have a responsibility and legal obligation to collect um to the best of our ability and for the um and for the sustainability of the operation of business operation that enterprise. So, we're trying to keep this in mind to be prepared for what we are potentially running into when the dis. We've got a lot of folks that are going to be, you know, if you owe if you owe $1,000, it might be a little more manageable, right? You know, you're a little that's adding a little less than $100 a month on a on your on top of your regular bill for 12 months. If you owe, you know, $12,000 over, you know, a year, they'll push people not going to be able to afford an extra thousand on top of the reg. So,

they're not going to make a payment and they're going to fall into this connection right now. That would be about a thousand customers.

I don't want to make assumptions to what people can and cannot afford, right? If you write off the $9,000 utility bill, like there's something on the other end of that that lot of energy, right? That's your regular consumption, you probably have something to back that up, right? And so I I appreciate that we're trying to the edge basis of what we

might run into. Um, but I don't want to make an assumption just because somebody owes $12,000 they cannot pay the payment plan somebody understood and heard because we're in the same boat that from staff standpoint we we we don't know we don't want to make that assumption either which is why I want to what I'm going to walk through here is what we've identified as our potential challenges and what we have set up set our goals and then through the process that we're looking at because the idea is we do know there are fols out there that should can pay and should pay and so we have that and then but at the same time we're keeping in mind the people that are for whatever reason in the situation and so here just I'm going to present to you what our plannings and what how we're working through this to help as many people as possible stay connected while collecting the payments that that so we're seeking that balance so here's the that that kind of sets up the dilemma they're working force you can see these six these Five points here. It is about balancing. That's connection in the collections. Um and we we realize that there's large psy amounts. There's payment plan limitations and then there's that risk of disconnection both for in terms of from both sides. There's a risk of customers getting disconnected not have service and then there's a risk for us or business side disconnection which John just mentioned if we can't collect at some point. Um and that goes into the last one too. you know, the customer ability recovery. If a renter just disconnects and goes at this point, um, you know, because we've had two years of no disconnections, you we've increased that that liability, that potential risk of not collecting. Normally, like John mentioned, this happens a lot sooner and so that you you minimize that risk. We want to get back to that um to minimize that risk and also minimize what a customer what someone owes. They don't want to owe a lot either. I mean, so trying to check there. Um, for each of these, you can see there have goals. I'm sorry, it's a little smaller. Um, but trying to uh

have goals about how we want to be consistent in what our plan is, making sure we're providing opportunities, um, that they're reasonable and avoiding disconnections where all possible. Um, but making sure going into each of those, here's what we have. So, this is that first one. um establishing a consistent and equitable approach. Uh just letting you know what we've done. We we're offering interest repayment plans. We've been that's been set up for like I said almost, you know, half a year now or more. Um this is for customers with past two balances. It's just it's been out there. Set up the payment plan. Stay current on it. You won't be subject to late fees. You won't be subject to discount. That's what we're encouraging people to do. But you saw we've only we have about 500 people out of 4,000 really out of the main one's the 90 days right now is our threshold. So we have about 1,800 um so we had a little over we have 1,800 people who have not set up payment plans that are subject you potentially subject to disconnect a thousand right it was 1100 I think is our number that's subject to disconnection based off of their dollar threshold and the number of days pass through they they have so setting up the payment plans Um, you know, we've been trying to encourage you getting these plans now. Don't wait till you're ready to be cut off because that's the concern. That's the dilemma, right? We don't want to cut you off, but you had to set the payment plan and now you're coming one setting up, but then you may not even be able to stay current on that plan. Um, and then maintaining that plan keeps them avoiding or keeps them from being disconnected and helps them late fees. Um, we are trying to provide these opportunities. again been offering this since since February. Um for the disconnection, we do have a calendar in place and you can see the numbers up there. That's the not counting them actually getting the bill and all the information being on the bill that would count as an as a notice as well. These

these other four notices up here are when we're going to send out letters, make phone uh have uh we have robocalls set up. They can also receive email and text if it's been set up in the system. So, we are providing notices for when uh folks need to uh make a payment, set up a payment plan um before disconnection happens. Go not to disconnected, but um and then we're and we are working with partners to connect them to assistance programs. Um again, recognizing that there are some folks that may be in a different situation um than others. There are we've had people come in and just pay off their the full thing. has happened, but we also know there's going to be people that come in. We don't know the circumstances. Trying to be trying to be understanding of that. Um, and they they may certainly qualify and need some assistance. We're trying to make sure we get that in place for their benefit and and it's definitely a mutual benefit. Um, trying to provide time to resolve these past two balances. Um, we have 12 months. That's what we've been offering. uh we do have the capability now to extend that. I don't we we don't we don't recommend that that apply to every single account, but there are certain accounts that we understand that it may need to be longer than that. And the new system does allow us to do that. Um so we can talk about about that a little a little bit more. Um we've also right now what we're doing is what we want to do. These are things I'm telling you what we want to do. make sure we for those we've had some folks that they've set up payment plans. They may make appointments for a while then they miss payment or two and try and get back on. Um or we have ones that that well they're they're making a payment plans but it's it's been a lot for them you know trying to work through it and maybe now if they restructure it right they maybe they were on it for maybe they had a six or nine month payment plan set up hey if I can get the rest on 12 month

I'll be fine and that makes sure that they that enables them to keep up and stay current. That's what we want as well, that that compliance piece. Um, for those people that are in payment plans and it's kind of a we're willing to do kind of a one time like restructure refinancing of that now. Hey, make a payment, get get set up. We want you to be able to be on a plan that you can afford that you can make. So, we're offering that to the want to offer that to people that are on payment plans now. And then for those that um that get on it um get on them now and as we go into the disconnects, we want to be mindful like things happen. Get it. Um we can't keep doing that. It's how we got in the situation we're in. Uh but there may be, you know, that first time through, hey, you've been making payments for three or four months, you miss one. Technically, it would be you're off the payment plan, you're such a disconnect. Okay, let's get, you know, things happen. Let's get you set back up. Allow for that that one time disruption and trying to be trying to work work with people as we can with but limitations on how often. Sorry. So, um that's that's again that's the reasonable time that we're trying to work through to provide this. We want to get we want to get caught back up as quick as we can to but knowing it's going to take a year or more. people that slide. Um the 12 months current payment plan is already extended from what we used to do which are six month plans. Correct.

Right. That's right.

So we're already giving people six months grace periods given the situation that we're want to kind of keep that in mind that we don't keep

extending that timeline. Uh you know I'm I want to be sensitive to the people that are truly in financial hardship. Right. But let's recognize that the vast majority of people that we're talking about have chosen to be in the situation by willingly not making payments when

they know they knew they owe the town for their electric service.

So I want to be a little bit careful by making it too loose, right? Because these are, you know, again, vast majority, right? Certainly there's people that are truly under financial hardship, but the vast majority of the accounts that we're talking about, this is a situation of their own.

Yeah. And the largest amounts are accounts that have made payments in 20 to 24 months. And I mean, and that's that's that's where we those are the largest ones, but you saw the average was about $1,100 or so. That's one that we would it should say 12 months or or less deposited. So the ones that are $6,000, $500, you're asking them to take on another car payment, something that we're trying to be, we want to make sure we get how do we keep them from being disconnected, I'll get if it's not a feasible payment for me. So we're trying to find that balance of making sure it's something that they can live with and and we can live with to get where we need to be. So, how how do we set the criteria to make sure that we this is an equitable solution and we're not taking this like you know one case at a time uh because there needs to be some rules of the road to

and we're working through what what those look like and so we have some guidelines that we we have prepared um and trying to and part of this is to get some feedback from council what you're comfortable with and also understand where head and what's considered brief And so you know internally as we've discussed the weekly standing whatever um standing weekly meeting if not more to go over these things and it's so if it's hey if it's say $2,400 if you got $2,400 or less we're talking a 12 month

if you got over that we can start talking a little bit longer. um and just trying to decide is $200 extra on top of someone's bill a reasonable amount is yeah where do you draw the line on that you know we can't go look we can't keep going out years and years on

and so is that based because like $200 is a very friendly number right

we do not have the ability and and I would say I don't know that we want to get into income based on setting up payment plans um you know either because they're not trying to just provide service. We're not providing grants or anything. And so the assistance programs that are set up are income based based on your income. I'll touch on some of those to kind of help where those are here that offset some of that. Um so and then again trying to avoid disconnection getting back to standard operating procedures. So in part of this again right now temporarily someone suspending what formal operations would be and where we want to be in the future if you get disconnected. So we get to that point they haven't made a payment plan they haven't set a pay plan to be they just haven't made their payments and they're disconnected. the past policy in the standard policy just like everywhere utilities is to get reconnected you got to pay your bill and that's where we eventually want to get back to and again if you're if you're cutting off with this with a shorter window that balance should be hopefully something that's man right but now we've got two years worth or something and so if we cut that person off that has a $19,000 balance they're not coming up with 1800 and so we want so our go we want to something we we do if you're going to get reconnected. It's not oh we're just reconnecting you need to have something but a little discretion on what that is.

So we'd like to start with can you pay some people will be able to pay full and that's that's ideal but can you at least can you pay half you know can you pay half can you pay something and and the bottom line will be to get something to reestablish connection you need to pay some sort of lump sum and you need to get like it's not going to be keep going like if you want to do reconnection staff established get on a payment plan and make the lump payment and get that amount. So trying to make sure we get something trying to make sure we get people on a payment plan. Um and then we have the uh what we would also typically when you reconnect there's a service charge kind of get everything set back up when you go through reconnect all that. Right now we would wait that you wave that first time that fee that first time connected as well. It's a nominal fee. Um but it does help that recover that cost is required. But again, just trying to get them reconnected about that first time through. Um, and then, you know, establishing effective collect balances after service ends. This is a little bit to what John was talking about earlier. This is a little it's come a little bit harder just because of the amounts. Um, but we want to make sure that look, we're getting accurate final final time bills out when they they owe it and if it needs to be sent to debt set off or other things that we have that option. Um the other piece is internally you have sometimes you have people that are just moving down the street and technically it's a different account in a new location, different service address. In the past it's been you got to pay this you got to close this account out pay it in full and then move our new system we can transfer that that balance in that account. And so right now, if someone's moving down the street and they're carrying balance, if they've been making their payments and they're, you know, they're they're staying up, we would allow them to carry that transfer with them and just be added to that. Um, so not trying to, you know, we want to make not put them in an extra hardship just because they're happy. And now this would be people again, they're on payment plans, have been making payments, um, and they're trying to, you

know, get if they if they're moving and they got a back payment, it would be just like getting a reconnection. You need to make a payment. You need to get on plan and then we can transfer it. But you can't because you can't leave just oh I'm moving now my account behind as work. You're tied to that account and you're in our system. So

we uh legally allow property for us in

I'd have to check on utilities. Brian I don't know. Not not a great action civil action. He probably still I mean he went to court on property to check that

but renters also

renters will be an issue on that one because we cannot legally hold the property handler unless they are also the contracted party. So if the services in the renters's name then we don't have we don't even really have a civil action to guess this problem because people move the longer this is less I'm just wondering if there's other protections in place. Yeah, I don't believe we're able to put a lean on the property. I mean, the mechanics on the statute is

Yeah, it's it's it's very specific and I g we don't we don't have a we don't have a statuto that process

the financial risk management Mr. right

now is extending this where it is right now. Right, truncating we're not moving further. That's why we're council is put move back towards standard operating procedures the late fees disconnects and for the utility the disconnect is your primary and most effective tool of compelling payment. And so that's where that's what typically works. That's what we go through. business, you don't usually have a 20 month, four month period of of time where people make them make payments at all. And so we're we're feeling that we're trying to back through that regardless of their reason or uh for not making things. Um

I have one question. Can you go? Yeah. that uh refer eligible balances to state that set up. Can you uh explain how that that work?

No, that's where but they got they they have a balance. That's where John mentioned we would send it to the state and they would garnish anything. So if they're owed state income tax and lottery, anything they come across that the states owe. So that that's the closest the collections that we do and that's common through municipalities and counties that have utility system authorities throughout the state. That's the most common sort of collection that we do. So it does go to another that's quasi collection agency if you go clearing house. So so we we do collect some back on that. It's just not like a one time thing.

Okay. So um you mean the state can offer some compensation to the economy tax

as it becomes available for that in a way but only when it comes only when it comes available for that individual the state does not go the state does not act like a like a debt collector they're not going out and doing it's where it comes up at a like I

said a tax refund Johnny the example lottery something that the state would normally pay to that individual. If we've turned them their their name into state or to pay us instead of pay so amount

it could be it just depends you know how lottery they got

that's right I don't know yeah I don't know what the

state and give it to you.

Yeah. Do

you have a sense of how much of that ends up being collectible when you go to state debt set off and how would that compare to private collection and how much it be worth?

We only get like a couple hundred bucks a month from the state debt set off for all of the debts we've sent off

in perpetuity. Really?

Yeah. We don't we don't go

several.

Normally we don't have this much. That's not much. That's not

guess how much the debt would sell for private collector. Then we don't then we'd have to look into what our legal I'd be interested see if the option is elect we do set out the statute and setting up the enterprises. I'll understand that u the risk created as stretches out to one where they realize hey I can just sort of just walk away

or whatever and then just go to the st so it's interesting connected pain but the longer that stretches up um the more risk we take on collectible. And I know it's unusual, but it sounds like a private collection would keep it collectible longer. You know what I mean? Like it would eliminate almost that incentive eventually the ability to send it to state off.

Let me generally you send it to death set off when you hit the statute of limitations on collecting it. So all of our services do have a statute of limitations. The town can enforce collections. Applying private property as well.

It varies by service. Um sewer is the shortest at three years.

The shortest I'm not sure what they're more than three years. No, we we'll investigate. We can investigate further. We'll get what are on the private side for now. Like just having to point. Can you hit on like internally what we're trying to do to make sure to create situations that keep people connected while making sure we get to make the motion to balance operation that we can that keeps people connected in Apex and keeps them able to pay so they're we're moving forward. So that's what we're working through.

What happens if someone utility just in normal course of operation someone utility account dies we attempt to collect from the estate or we just write it off at that point? [clears throat]

Well I guess I don't I don't know how

uniform we have been about it but there have been some instances where we've gotten notice from an estates and the town attorney folks have helped me or help someone in finance do the paperwork to file against the incident. So that is an option but it's rare and it mostly it really depends on if we know the person's pastor. Um, so that's just kind of let you know what we're working through like what kind of the the challenge we see coming up with these imbalances and even in setting up payment plans like it's not we're going to have a people that may not be able to pay or stay current and then they're going to be subject to disconnect. So we're just want to walk you through how we're planning to address that, what what compromise we're working through with them at the same time trying to get keep them connected but get the payments that are owed. Um, so we know that this doesn't stretch out anymore. We already know it's 12 plus months now just to even get back to, you know, the current or get back to capturing that revenue at this point. So um the next part that we'll go over is some of the broader policy things that we're looking at um that we want to that we are implementing or want to change including kind of the temporary stuff and making sure you understand where we are now, what we're doing and see if you got any questions or thoughts on that. toward we want to be gi ask about two considerations that one is profiles of those types of customers. you know, you perhaps have one customer who's over 90 days and owes thousands and has been in no communication with the town. Um, and I imagine you have

another profile of workingclass folks who that $200 is a killer for them. And yet perhaps there's some sort of communication. Again, I'm trying to find each end of the spectrum in terms of those what those profiles look like. we have to treat those equitably in terms of if you've got somebody who's in communication with you and for obviously the communication it could also fit um but I'm just looking at you're much more likely to collect at least some with someone who's in some sort of communication with you I would think and I would imagine the probability is significantly reduced if you're talking about someone who has never communicated with do we have handle those you know so legally and ethically we do not discriminate on how each customer service provider circumstances that come up there's customer service discretion in terms of how things can be can be handled and I say that that does again we're trying to establish the guidelines to be consistent to be to be equitable

where we're going to what you're going to see get to is there's people that are working through it we know that and they're going But they're we're what we're presenting to you is ways that we're working to try and make sure that we get them in a situation that is manageable and they can get there and whether it's the payment plans, whether it's they make a payment and do the the payment plan and then bring that payment plan down. We're going to we'll get into some of the customer service piece just a couple slide or sorry customer assistance just a couple slides that helps offset. Um so working through them now that will be offered to everybody and then there's certain parameters around like say the customer assistance program or certain people will qualify. Um you will get to a point in this process as we laid out where we're helping them but then you the person that's not communicating when they get disconnected there is a final disconnect. That's what we want to make

sure everybody's aware of is that we can't keep pushing the because eventually it means the demise of the whole opera of the whole enterprise and then then you're not serving the other 29 30,000 customers that are you know like said the grand scheme of things we have about 1100 that right now would be cut off out of almost 31,000 that's a small percentage wise but still 1100 people no one wants to cut off so Um, so percentage wise it's small, but we're still trying to make sure that we serve L residents, all customers. Um, and so we do work with our customers, but there are um there are because we we know what we do have. We we get to there are medical exceptions. There are circumstances that do allow for that that customer service discretion. Yeah. So, we're trying to outline what those are and then what's the ones that everybody doesn't know what's going on. And here's where here's the line. come to you can you can be what's what's owed or and part of what I'm pulling from is what council zig said earlier about just like if you racked up 20 grand in utility bills like they already have the facilities to draw that kind of capacity in the first place as opposed to home. Thank you.

Okay. Uh so really we'll just this is just kind of a summary that we're trying to balance you know keeping people's power underwater running while also collecting what is owed to the town. Um you know we've talked through we've got significant past two balances. We need to balance flexibility with accountability. Um we do have the ability at least on the electric side to be able to you know if somebody gets back in good standing we can turn their power back on pretty quickly. It's remotely. We don't have to roll with truck out. Um, we've got these are the tools. Um, specifically it's, you know, we're we

allow them to make partial payments. We let them sign up for payment plan. We're going to talk a little bit about a financial assistance program. We're going to let them restructure the debt. You know, if a 12 month if you can't you can't do, you know, $300, $400 extra per month, we cancel it and we start over on a new 12-month plan is kind of what we're thinking. Um, of course, and you know, we don't want to make a bad situation worse. We're talking about not doing the standard reconnection fee to charge somebody for the cost of reconnecting. This is just a summary slide. We're talking, you know, on the left here, short-term policy versus long-term policy. Shortterm, as we work through the problem, we've got, you know, disconnections would occur at $1,000 rather than 500. That mostly that drops 300 400 people off the list. Um, in the short term, if they keep not paying, they will be on in a future period. Um, the the disconnect, there is a disconnect between when the bill goes out and when somebody gets turned off. Under the current schedule, we're talking 84 days. Long term, the goal is we can get that down to 45 days between, you know, genuine past due gen. That's about assessing risk. How can we close the gap between somebody not paying and trying to collect? We're going to let it folks make a partial payment rather than do the full balance. We're talking through, you know, allowing residential customers to go up to a 24-month plan into some more extreme circumstances of financial hardship and letting commercial customers go up to 36 months. So, any questions about that? It's just kind of

why why go back to long-term policy is residential only up to 12 months, commercial is not?

Why is commercial allowed 12 more months or 50% the commercials are some of the bigger balances.

So it's

also commercial entities I imagine. We'll take this. We'll take those guidance.

I'm just wondering what the rale is

allowing commercial% extension on res.

It's mostly about amortizing it. Um, the one of the the biggest customer element is the biggest commercial customer we had that owed us like almost $49 $50,000. We did sign them up for a 12-month payment plan and I think maybe one month went by before they said it was a going concern for their business

because it

was a going concern for their business,

additional because it was thousands because we were trying to advertise 50 grand over 12 months. by the thing is that you know think about a business definitely with a business versus a resident like we you with a business you will not have collection option

right and so if they owe they owe4,000 $40,000 you know 4,000 a month over over 12 months or maybe 2,000 over 24 months or you get 1,200 over 36 hours if it's if it means a greater chance of us recouping the money because they can stay in business. That's that's where that's the thinking behind. However, these are points that we're looking for your direction, you know, a consensus consensus on. If collectively y'all have concerns about this, we can pull back on it. We we're we're letting you know what we see and then what we're recommending on how as we think through how we're addressing these operations. But that's how we got there. Ideally commercial we we've not before this incident there's never been commercial paint so this is that's new in itself and ideally it would not be something you do their business as part of their operation that's what they should plan for and you put in place and so we're trying the long term

which is the long term

long term you know

just be residents and no more

yeah six to nine months now this problem has sorted itself out a commercial

business gets in a rears and we're not even going to consider request long term but as we work through the next you know

we're just

and there is a slide there is a slide later on specifically about manual plans as well so there's some kind of additional chase for that so I'll move to the next one so real quick I wanted to say uh five minutes on the clock folks from neighbor up are here who help us administer our uh customer assistance plan. Um these are some changes we can make um or we're thinking about making. This is a rough draft. You know, we're going to if we if we're feeling good about these three ideas or these two main ideas, you know, we can come back with specifics. Um one thing we don't do currently, uh our assistance is fixed per household without regard to the size of that household. So one of the ideas we're asking for you know kind of up down maybe proceed with this is we make the customer assistance program scale based on household. So the first part of that is you know it's rather than you know 636 max no matter how big your household is we would scale that in the eligibility criteria to where if they get up to six people in the household they could get up to $1,200. that is one way we can kind of support you know working families in the community without you know probably without really breaking the bank too much but also this is a more normal structure for this kind of assistance program as well. Um the second piece was is uh we have an eligibility income criteria um but it is several years stale at this point um based on area median 80% of area median income from like 80 was 2022 2022. So what we would want in ourou with neighborhood going forward is automatic adjustments to that so that that goes up as our rates go up and as

those kinds of HUD determinations go up as a means of keeping us ahead of both inflationary pressures but also just the general economy

the number of 80%

I mean the actual figure like

100,000 I'm Just

for family of four 76,500

family

76,500

7600

that would go up but that's that's basically the 22.

Yeah, that's what I was say.

Yeah. So,

yeah. Family one is 784,000. initial.

Yeah, it's pretty.

Yeah, the the current PO purchase order for it is down 12, but then we also have funded it from Apex Cares. Um, and we're working out the proportion of Apex Cares that we can this Yes, we did. We did refill it every year

effectively. Yeah, we've been putting aside money in the town budget towards Apex Cares. portion of a takes care goes to

the portion not let's say refill like it wasn't that initial allocation of council but there has been some money there's the initial

so there's some remaining that

any questions com comments concerns on that particular piece So let me jump to the next slide. Mr. Mayor, [laughter] uh so you know, one of the things we were actually just talking about uh before the meeting started is, you know, neighbor does have other funding sources that they use to support folks in need. Um Wake County Energy Assistance, you know, handles all of the standard government programs, lie heap, things of that nature. uh United Way runs 211 which also does occasionally connect people with kind of charitable organizations and then there are state government programs that don't help with bills specifically but can help with the equipment. We of course try to emphasize those in all of ourations. All right, so jumping into the policy itself, we're talking about updating a policy that was last approved by town council in 1995. Um it is a a sevenpiece document. Um, just to quickly kind of set, we're talking about removing three sections from it. Um, that document also had a lot of rules and regulations about electric car services and public work stuff. We're talking about carving those out into separate documents so that you have a customer service policy that's primarily administered by the finance department. Um, oversight from town management. Uh so each of these slides is kind of new idea or revised policy kind of trying to adapt to changing circumstances. Um it's a problem statement and the goal is just for you to kind of give me immediate thoughts, concerns, follow-up questions later if you'd like. Um obviously first one is let's cut out all of the items about technical service delivery about how people get electric water or trash collection. keep this

focused on, you know, the document that customers that's part of their contract with the town to receive services. Next one we're talking about is, you know, the 1995 policy. You know, we've got informal and formal version of this. It's yet we have pauses in disconnections between 32 degrees or above 100 degrees quote all day long uh or during specific months. So, you know, we're doing this less in November or December or January, but that also also overlaps with temperatures. Uh, in case anybody hasn't noticed, the weather pattern has changed in North Carolina since 1995. So, we do need to revisit this a little bit. Uh, so kind of our first draft recommendation is is that we would have an extreme weather disconnection policy that restricts disconnections when temperatures are forecasted to be above or below that 32 degrees or 100 degrees for a period of greater than 12 hours. So during the heat of the day, it's over 100. During the cold of the night, it's like 200.

I uh Yeah, I was just gonna say I spoke with town manager about the story in Rocky Mountain. Correlation doesn't equal causation, but it's a tragic story of three people who passed away um because they had been disconnected by the town. Um they did not receive payment. There was a disconnection. However, um the concern here is whether or not those that their fatal those fatalities that was exacerbated by the extreme weather and they um I believe we're adjusting it to 90 degrees Fahrenheit um or below in the summer and obviously I don't know what the winter time uh but is there a way that are we able to establish that here or is that something you need to go back and figure out what the appropriate temperatures are? We we welcome your input at this point and 100 degrees I don't know what the rale was in 1995 seemed like a highlight kind of

I mean 100 degrees outside is ridiculously hot

certainly go collect data on days last year 90 degrees

give us thresholds to look at run the numbers and say on average

50 days or above 90

because to me the fact would be you know what's in our kind of like our highest average you know number of like heat you know excessive heat dates figuring out what those numbers were and then because it takes into account daytime and night and I feel like that's a good starting point for us I feel like everybody's come up with a temperature just a cup would sound like this 100 which does make a lot of sense. So I I like the idea just giving us a little bit more of a range. I feel like that number is probably going to be closer to 90 92 probably worth practice. So it's 100 degrees on Monday we're not going to turn you off and then it's going to be 90 90 degrees on Tuesday we're going to turn you off or it's a following billing cycle. How does this how does this work?

It would fall within like it would be way to the next. So based on like just using these numbers, so let's take the cold that that's pretty standard. So say we've got three or four straight days where it's you know 32 32 degrees for 12 or maybe the whole time we get a few days where it might not get above freezing. We're not going to disconnect it. Then then you know that's Monday through Wednesday and then Thursday we're back up to 45 and the forecast is it's going to stay in the 40s then you're such that customer is subject to disection at that time. So it doesn't wait it's [clears throat] just it's points in time of when that temperature is affecting how people

questions maybe you mentioned earlier that we do connection water

you thought about stage disconnection where we do the electric first and then keep the water just for efficiency on our side

we're we're talking about if they have Electric electric would be the disconnection and we wouldn't touch the water.

Yeah.

We typically you don't to experience typically is when you cut the electric you've done what you need to do to get people. The only reason we the only reason we historically the only reason we have disconnected water sewer is that's the only service. Uh the second question is and this kind of ties to the um degrees. Do we just do a compassion and sort of connection when it's 112 degrees so they're back on during 4 to 6 p.m. or whatever that or is that logistically difficult as well to avoid I don't want to say it's not possible. I think we would have to look at what the logistics are for that in terms of actually how the system

we can

how they cooperate.

Yeah, we can explore that

more frequent people list. So it's it's sort of like there's I guess what I was getting at before sewer is almost like there's this can actually wouldn't be an onoff like stage like your electric storm but it'll come back if it's 110 degrees and maybe that'll go for a while and then finally okay you're just the system that sort of thing. So again sort of you know kind of [clears throat]

that would be a logistical right there but I think it would be very very difficult for staff to do because that would be an individual cutting them all and off and what have been missed right

I mean so it becomes very difficult it's not we we do not have thinking that through because let's or use Monday because Friday as the example Monday we disconnect Friday is excessive do we re establish somebody's been on for that many days or is it hey you were just unfortunate enough that you got disconnected before we had to see you know three days before so those are the sort of that's the sort of stuff that I'm thinking in my head that I don't want an answer now but I generally want to know what our thought process How do we handle that? Or if or even the larger picture is a recommendation as to whether or not we should

and there are as we've seen already there probably is your official forecast there. There's so many say it's going to be excessive for the next 15 days according to the National Weather Service. You can you can look at a bunch of different things. Again, it gets complicated. Why we put so much emphasis on trying to not get this point because slice.

I totally see that. And that's why I'm like I don't think there's an answer to that here. I think it's much more of a let's figure out what our what what our data set's going to be to help us at least be able to come up with a policy that can at least I mean we're not going to solve 100% of the problem 100% of the issue. Thought it was very telling that Sean in those slides you you call the challenges and the limits. The limits as we learned in the military is you have two or more bad choices, not two or more choices where there's a positive either side. It's a it's downside. So I thought of dilemma was very appropriate because that's what we're really working with

here. Um I do have one question at the end that I I want to pose to John and you uh once you're done with all I'm getting through this because I it'll help me kind of get a sense as to what our so to speak.

My question is if somebody some household got disconnected right then the weather like um above 90 right? Yes. And then we need to recct so for the several days you know um the weather is extremely hot we keep it connected. So who will pay this um utility bill this period at three or five days the town of that hospital? Who is responsible for the

saying if we turn it back on it would be

yeah when yeah you disconnect it then you have to turn back on because you know the extreme weather. So for the several days we have to keep it connected. Who is responsible for this three or five days of bing consumer? basically the meter spinning.

Oh, okay. They got disconnected because they you know they then you they didn't reply you. So you turn it on. So they can say I didn't reply. So it's kind of tricky here, right? Yeah. Because they didn't request. Yeah. So this is complicated actually. Thank you forri still

and I think looking at I think looking at we have so we can look at

I think we're looking at The policy shouldn't be interpreted such a way that oh we just happen to have cold spell July through and it's 75 degrees July 7th. Okay let's listen to everybody on July 14th back.

Yeah.

Okay. Uh so the next item is just talking about the payment plans. We can do payment plans for a period longer than 12 months. Um so just to remind there is a legal statute of limitations. So there is a time at which you know somebody between somebody receiving services and the town's ability to really pursue it outside of disconnect kind of goes away. Um sewer fees of course is shortest at three years. So we can go longer than 12 months. Um the risks are you know somebody signs a residential lease they're probably signing it for 12 months and then we put them on a 24-month payment plan. they move at the end of those 12 months. That is a real risk. Um certain kinds of commercial businesses don't have long lifespans. Uh they might exist for a year or two and then so we put them on a 36. So the staff recommendation was is we would allow longer payment plans through the rest of this calendar year, but then it is there is a definitive end point in which we're just you know you're only doing 12 months and it's only for residents.

It's set up now. My question is especially for the commercial some businesses they actually are seasonal dur during certain months of the year they perform really well and earn lots of money but during another several months they actually almost no business. So how how do you handle this? If you give them you know average like um like each month they pays like for example 3,000 right through 36 they it's um they are able to pay it

during the you know better for month that they won't be able to pay it during the you know uh almost no business

right yeah I guess my immediate response to that is that's kind of why the town probably hasn't been in the business of offering that business at all. Their business model can't afford to keep the lights on for a couple months and

their business model can't afford to keep the lights on for a couple months and that's just why we're not in

doing this at all.

Like that I like the staff recommendation on this one. It helps. I I mean to me I think we get a real I think we identify the two different type of actors by those who take advantage of the data plans and those who say they don't want to um and you know for those who want to take advantage of it I think having the option was necessary to be able to make that extension beyond 12 months I think is probably appropriate. Um, this gives us kind of a drop dead thing basically saying if you haven't participated in this in a program by now, you're not going to get a chance to take full advantage of the additional benefits. It it it helps address moral hazards. So, I like it.

John, I have a question about the town's build software. Do our adjacent municipalities also use that software? They use a different

I think car's carri's on Oracle. Holy Springs uses Tyler. They're moving to Oracle.

Reason why I'm just thinking about the possibility and how they're most likely to end up.

uh

then that can speak back to your debt collection and and it will attach that software that's

I realize

yeah that's that's a

there's a service we send files to you Do we do have a couple of those? Yes.

A pass due. No, I don't think

nothing. That's I haven't recognized this. If we do, it wouldn't be a

think so.

Yeah, I don't think there Yeah, I don't think that there's any kind of this is serve multiple households accounts that are in this bucket of people.

I'm trying to There are some trying to Okay. Um, so the 1995 policy has a lot of provisions about overcharges and undercharges on various services. We obviously have a financial legal obligation to ensure you know that we're billing appropriately and collecting appropriately. Um, well, we're looking at some kind of way to clarify kind of make it as uniform as possible. Um so we were having a recommendation of if there's an error in the customer's favor they have been you know uh undercharged by the town and the town discovers that we're going to go back you know we would limit that back filling to six months and then if they are you know being overcharged by the town you know we would offer adjustments for at least a period of 12 months and so that keeps it kind of simple and uniform has just been a way to kind of sort different kinds of adjustments into two buckets and then treat them appropriate.

Uh the other one was refunds. The 1995 policy doesn't really discuss or there's not really a lot of authorization to do refunds outside of um when the accounts closed and the folks are moving away outside of Apex. Um, so we were thinking, you know, you could do it and they also now have like real time access. You can pop in the portal. You can see if you have a debit or a credit balance. Um, we were saying as just a rule of thumb, um, customers could request a refund of credit balances if it's more than two times their most recent. It's just kind of old circuit breaker for folks who overpay the town sometimes by accident or, you know, they get to budget billing settle up. you know, just give us a rule of thumb that we can work on. Anything bigger, anything smaller than that would be subject to some kind of supervisory management.

So, are we talking that like as soon as the average balance hits 2x8 bill, we would issue a check for

we would ask for to ask like they could request it because right now they can't request a refund at all. simple, easy to understand. You know, it's well, I think one of the reasons why the old policy is like the time period between billing, by the time they we they could see they had a credit, the next bill was already due and we're kind of technologically past that I don't know mechanics. account for us. But I mean, it seems that if there's an overpayment, why credit?

Oh, we do.

I mean I mean I mean just continue to do that.

We we do. It's just every now and then you've got someone that's like, "Hey, I missed it in my checkbook. I made a double payment." And they get in a situation where they might have a

financial hardship now because they paid us. And it's really for that situation. We don't anticipate it happening a lot. It's really and that's why we tried to carve it out like again at least two times your bill because oh I overpaid by 10 bucks we'll credit it'll go on your credit you know it'll be it'll be on your account you get get that money for it. So it it's really we don't see it happening a lot and it's really just make sure that there's folks we don't create

okay that that scenario you want me to I was like okay that makes sense. Um, so another one we've run into is we've had, you know, solar customers recently, you know, a lot of interest in their billing. Um, they've almost all got an app on their phone that connects to their solar panels and they're comparing that against what their bill says every month. when they're on cycle two, which is midmon the 15th to the 15th billing periods. Obviously, that, you know, takes a lot more time to respond to their concerns when you're having to, you know, back out everything after the 16th, put it on. So, we were thinking over time we would actually migrate all the solar customers to the same billing period. So, everybody's solar is in the same service period and it's one that would align with calendar month. So we get to to where their bills try to match up against the apps they've got on their phone measuring in the reporting cycles

best they can

as best we can.

Yeah. Our meters are the authority on

match.

It's never going to match but

I think we be very we should be very careful about telling us not to we don't have any usage about what goes on on the house side for that. The inverter gives the power that it's producing as it's producing it, but it doesn't say what the house is using. And then then you have what's what the house doesn't use comes into our system. And that's the only piece we pick up is what comes into our system. to what's

coming into our system will not match the program.

Usually what percentage it goes to our system?

It varies. This wouldn't be to be an example. Just would be to make it easier to closer for comparison and address.

It's mostly so that we're speaking the same language is just kind of the idea here. even though it will never match, the numbers will never precisely add up to two different systems and beyond their meter is a black box to us once they've slapped some solar rays on the roof kind of a thing. But we thought this might be some way to get us towards at least treating those customers in a more meaningful.

It would help. I agree that it would help from a standpoint of how we deal with solar customers.

I know.

This is one um that might um invite some discussion. Um, so we often get into a dispute where we're talking to renters and they are they've leased their property and the property owners responsible for the maintenance of the equipment, the HVAC alarm. Um, seems like there's high use, there's a water leak. Um, the landlord says, I've had somebody look at it, there's no leak on this side. Our folks look at it and we say, it's not on our side. One thing in the toolbox that some North Carolina utilities have done is they've got a policy where at some point there is a circuit breaker so to speak where we can notice the property and we can say you know right now the tenant is the contracting party for services. The next time there's a changeover you as the landlord the property owner

will have to be the contract. And that is one way we could move towards, you know, smoothing over some of these issues where a tenant gets caught in the middle. It of course could improve collections. It's a financial risk thing where you know the obviously the landlord is going to have a little bit more of ability to pay most likely than a renter might. Um so but it's one of those things where if you're interested, we could come up with some kind of threshold. There's been too many high bill complaints. there's been too many delinquents at this particular kind of address. We would then notice the property owner and say, "Hey, going forward, you're going to be the responsible contracting for this address."

So, it's very specific property. It's just not a blanket rule. That's every

No, we could owners.

Yeah. Legally, we couldn't just say property owners in Apex forever the only people [clears throat] who can contract, but we could try to establish some process. So,

so the property gets flagged the next time the current

contracted party drops out.

Y

it can only be reestablished in the current.

Yeah.

Yeah. It wouldn't be that, you know, the renter moves out was $3,000. We can't hold the property owners, you know, responsible for that $3,000. Um, but we could say, you know, going forward that bill's got to be in your name and it's got to be your responsibility. You need to break that.

I've got a few real big questions on that rather than showing up everybody's time on sitting down to talk about that. Okay, I've got I have some genuine questions about the impact this will have on not like a multi- unit but on the single unit and a lot of the things that are tied

with, you know, like if you're going to school, you got to have a bill. The bill's got to have your name on it, that sort of stuff. So, uh, yeah, I'm a little heartburn about this one. It should be pretty rare, right? And if I if I catch what you're saying, there may be situations where the property owner doesn't want to deal with what could be a maintenance issue because they're not attracted with the town. They can just say, "Oh, no. This problem here." And we have no way of forcing them. the rental and this would be a way of saying okay well you know it is someone contract so they can be responsible but you hold them responsible

yeah yeah totally see what what what the intent is going to be I I have a lot of skepticism about the rarity assumption a lot of skepticism because I can see this essentially every time there is a new tenant this is going to be an issue because I've yet to be and anybody here always knows there's that period of time that month before they leave that month after they leave there's a bill somewhere that to me looks like a trigger so it's and if that happens pretty frequently I just want to think this one through a little bit more I like I like the idea I skeptical of some of the con I'm just skeptical of some of the things that we We haven't had a chance to discuss and as I said I'll we'll sit down and we'll talk this is come out of time probably ask all questions I have good make sure

I'm okay with this

Uh and then so the last one really the last policy is so we've got some challenges in our budget billing program. Um really if you look at the old policy it's it really doesn't imagine that somebody might sign up for budget billing and not pay or that they might miss a payment they might get penalties or that they would be subject to disco kind of kind of operates a little bit like an IU in some ways in the old policy. you know, they're going to settle up with us within a calendar year and everything will be okay. Um, it it's really that's not really standard practice for a lot of utilities. Like if you sign up for budget billing with Duke, that's that's a real contract that you have to sign. It's an agreement that you're agreeing to pay the same number 11 months in a row and then the 12th month is different. Um, so we would like permission or we recommend that we we actually have a policy where we review compliance with budget billing every month. Are they on track with their budget? If not, um, and you know that they could be removed for non-payment or not keeping up, falling behind, or, you know, paying anything different than the number they've agreed to pay. They've agreed to pay $300 a month. You know, it creates accounting headaches if they pay $310. um you know trying to move this towards a genuine contract of paying 11 times in a row the exact same number and it's that 12th time is different. So that's the recommendation.

What's the 12th month? Does it vary per person or is it always

June?

It's always June.

Doesn't have to be.

Doesn't have to be. We can change it. We can make it. Yeah, right.

September, October

always based on their previous year based on the increased rates or something usages that they

think they're take their last 12 months divide by 12 or just by know the rates

went up by 3%.

So just real quick one slide about future state. Um what we're talking about doing um we you know Sean and I have been discussing as part of the rate study we're doing raftless with rafflas is you know we move the utility services effective rates later in the year so that you know rate increases aren't happening the exact same month of summer you know when the bills normally pretty high anyway to everybody run air conditioning. Uh we're looking at uh September go live on being able to actually push their usages, their kilowatt hours, their water to the customer portal so people can go and query that information.

Yes.

Excuse September.

Yeah. Next month we're we're final testing.

I mean this has been in the works while you depend on getting good we get a certain uh hit a certain threshold of new meters meters. you're still relying on a lot of communication technology like the meters still read it's not the meters and it's not even the billing it's the communications you know in between you know just like your Wi-Fi doesn't work at home or your cell again you know and so hey that didn't didn't send that hour or that 15 minute interval so then you look at the chart and it's like got you know got here and reading here and missing one here and it comes back here so you're looking at those things so we got to figure out make sure that people understand the meter is still up any regional entry. That's correct. Right. It's just that we're working on that, but it's it's coming and it'll be a very useful tool for folks to be able to see what they're, you know, hopefully monitor their own habits because we don't know their habits, but people seem to think that we know their habits and we don't, you know, and we can say, hey, you can look at what your usages are. And there was I mean on this subject there were a lot of problems made initially about features like uh we can detect in real time when there's a leak you know see a steady kind of usage overnight typically

still

yep it's still planned we have those actually a lot of our le detection is already in place

and the last one is kind of kind of I think what's going to deliver some real dividends adding billing cycles. Um you know we would reduce because right now you know our cycles our cycle one or cycle two is we're basically billing you know that is the entire customer account for Holly Springs. So every two weeks we're trying to push out bills with more services for something the size of Holly Springs right for their customer account. Um we're thinking that you know we can reduce the amount of time squeezed um on reviewing variances the gap between the service period and when the bill is actually issued give more time for customers to disconnect and reconnect because right now between cycles we're having to you know shut down all the activity on specific you know disconnects and reconnects. And then of course, you know, you can kind of imagine why it might be more effective if we were getting this down to, you know, our current customer account spread across, you know, we got one person handling 8,000 customers rather than one person handling 17,000 customers. But we got to work through the logistics on that, but we think that would be a big process improvement transfer in how the town's doing business on this topic.

To speak on a more steady state,

yeah,

it would mean there's a lot you see a lot of. It'll take us a little bit to get there. We're not pushing right now trying to work with those things that we're the the data is coming. We want to get that out there and then I think we would like to in this coming year when we talk about rates then set the rates change when the rates go into effect.

That's what I was about.

Cycle three is quarterly storm water billing. So it's kind of already staked out in our process. So we're going to move to four or five.

Yeah, there is already three. It's just not it's not quite where storm water

went. I do have one quick question because I know in terms of the entire well not

the entire process of our loss is something that kind of anticipated we would be taking some form of financial loss on this back when this entire endeavor began. Um to me it seems as though there's almost kind of a anticipated loss mount. we have an idea of what our realistic loss amount is. Yeah, I don't know that we John and I have actually discussed that in terms of not the specific number but

accounting for how many people we anticipate how many people

we know yeah we look we look at the risk and we know know what's there um

we do anticipate that there will be some lumps I mean we don't know what those centers are and the part of what we're trying to do you know in this is a risk mitigation of how much of that do we lose right creating opportunities for people to Okay. And not just walk away that sort of thing. There might be collections options. We are trying to minimize it. So we're looking at a bunch of things to to I don't we hesitate to put a number on it or even say a percentage where we are now because we haven't implemented all the tools that we have. So splate these to encourage people to pay the disconnects to encourage people to pay and then encourage them to set payments. I think when we go through we go through the first when each cycle goes to that first disconnect realm and all the people that are not listening and not paying attention or whatever other reasons that they may not set up a payment plan um that's

that's going to be a trigger and when we and when we can see then how many people

are able to set up paying plans and get in manage a manageable state then I think we'll have a better idea of being able to say okay out of that here's a percent the payment plan. Here's a percentage of what we're seeing is are able to follow through on the payment plan. This is a number that we something that we are potentially going to have to figure out what our collection options are or what

I I I understand where my colleague, you know, operate under the idea that, you know, a lot of people just kind of dug this hole for themselves. I I think there were a number of people who did that. I appreciate the approach that you guys have been taking on this because I do think it's a focus on how do we prevent the disconnections because ultimately if you do the disconnection our ability to make a recovery of the cost drops substantially. So the longer we can keep people continuing to pay the better off we're going to pay. offsetting that with the idea of if you have a $100 payment plan and a $200 bill, you maybe you may be walking folks through a longer period in which things may become more awkward for us all. So I I I get those those factors. I mean, I I I tend to be much more on the those who made the willing decision to say, "I'm not paying for whatever reason, even though we had countless meetings, countless face to face, countless opportunities for people to be able to ask why their bill may have been, you know, may have had a discrepancy or not." And then after having that presented to them, they didn't report. I think those folks are in a completely different category than the person who is I'm just financially struggling right now. And to me, the downside is I don't know how to make that distinction. And I'm not sure outside of asking these persons. I'm not sure how we make that that how we make that distinction. So I think

your assumption that you are operating on which is do what we can to provide customer service, do what we can to provide the recovery. I think it's an appropriate tone to take. Um, and I but I think that tone becomes moderated by how much we're looking at in terms of our anticipated loss amount and that's that to me I mean there's always going to be that that loss amount will probably be at least variable but to some extent fixed because we know the cost of how much chasing that number is going to be that I think is a number that is useful for us because as we're talking about things such as private collections you asking if it's worth the squeeze because I don't know if I want to pay $20 to get $10 back and I don't know how much it's going to cost. So just that's why I asked that question. you I you don't if you haven't now I'd be glad while you guys are on it but I think it's an important number for us to start thinking through figure out where that del

I I think your comments also speak to the broader how these funds are set up I mean at the end of the day it's an enterprise fund

so our goal is to try and help people one get through this point distribution put a big emphasis there for obvious reasons the other is kind of the unsaid advocacy or whatever percent 95% 96% that have paid their bills that ultimately if we have to have a write-off that all factors into our rates as we forward and even with that there's a potential that those rates then put other people at risk or maybe just now being able to make it and we have to raise a little bit more to make up for it. So we're putting people in the future in jeopardy of not being able to pay the bills as well. So it's it's to everyone's benefit to get these payments in. But we also at some point have to be a little balanced being heavy-handed to protect the rateayers that are following. So I think that's a

key point and I it's a point I made one per section. You're not sticking it up by by not being really sticking up. And so you know fear pressure pressure is fantastic for the basis. Okay. So, the for those folk out there listening to this and you're still hanging in there, um you know, if you're aware of somebody who is probably telling everybody that pay their electric bill, right, you're ultimately the one that's so um you know, get the word out that it's not a for your points, the overwhelming majority that's has paid the bills with the charge chart which you know those are panel

and and there are ways and maybe neighbor address this there are ways that people who would like to pay more that can afford to pay more could maybe contribute to the different funds that are available for people to apply for assistance so that is a way for to also help your neighbors paying their bills if they're in situations you get in touch with some of the partners that John listed out including April.

Hey guys, appreciate it.

Lots of information. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Next steps.

Can we talk next steps for one second?

Yes.

You think next steps are so for us we we want you to be aware of what we're heading into and how we're responding to it. um because we know that we all will also receive those contacts. Um so we're just letting you know how we're working through that what the plans are and then if you had any concerns one year we appreciate the feedback today. Um you know the kind of the the policy manual piece like John mentioned we are working

on it and drafting it out and um because it needs to be updated needs to be revised. There needs to be clarifications. There needs to be more modern attempts to to do things and so that'll come to you um in the weeks to come. I mean, we're working on going through. We want to make sure it we'll bring that to you. That will actually need to be a formal um you know, presentation to you or at least approval by you at a council. So, you'll you'll see that it's not just that's really it. Um we'll keep you updated on the numbers as we go through. Um John updates and I so can provide you updates to where we are with the numbers. And like I said, it looks uh September I think it's around September 22nd or so 24 somewhere around there. That's the first that button on the disconnect. Um we have we are we have an operational plan in place for the four weeks surrounding that cycle one and cycle two disconnects. Like we've got a plan in place for how we're like making sure we're here to respond help from our partners neighbor. All that's in place to um to to be able to take care of those folks. So after that we'll let we be able to let you know how that went and you know how we expect that all of us to get back to what would be our standard operating which was meant to facilitate to be more efficient not just for us but for our customers keep everybody manageable situation more that so that that's been part of it too we don't want to get the background passion task. That's why that operational plan is addressing that. um how many even changing the the the rate the dollar threshold from 500 to a thousand was evaluating what the workload potential work like what that could be and we were able to we looked at that I think that's about 400 people that off that what would be the disconnected list going to that um so that's potentially 400 people that we'd

rather have them come and set payment plan but potentially for that aren't being disconnected or calling to make sure they don't get disconnected Um, not yet. I mean, they get to that next actually. They've already gotten letters because I think they were

that 5 any 500's already got they got a letter back in June in May, beginning of June. So, they got that initial letter say this is coming. Now, anybody now that the threshold, they're going to get letters um about, you know, coming to the actual specific date. Anything else?

What's um council's preference on the final item? I requested a rest over at the same day. I mean it's it's he put it on the I mean I I say this about education I think all of us clear about the process. Um yeah,

he has questions about the process for me was a formalization of an informal process where the input of council was provided to the mayor so that he would have informed information specifically it speaks to policy procedure This

[clears throat] nomination one there among council and mayor one when there's members of council um one when there is no consensus and then the last one when there's no recommendation. So those were kind of the five scenario just so that we're clear of appointment right before those appointments. Uh I think we still have to formally adopt policy stuff then. So the only scenario that I don't think we fall for yet when the mayor doesn't make a recommendation because right now that is got to official start of the the process and from my understanding we as council do not have the authority to suspend the rules and make our own recommendations to the mayor and I don't want to make it about the person the role of mayor position doesn't make a a recommendation. So that's that's one scenario that I think we're finding ourselves in right now where no recommendations made. Therefore, no both have been taken. Um and so what I'm thinking is just kind of where my head is at this that specific scenario that you know a we're letting people serve in roles that have expresses, right? I think that's kind of counter to setting term limits on these roles to begin with. I think it's been respectful for those people in the role because now we're kind of forcing them into you know

extended service right or force them to resign which way that's something that somebody who's committed to role. Um I also think by not progressing on some of these appointments you know people have interest they have stressed they've gone through the process of filling out application and we're sitting on it for six months without doing anything with them. I think again a big respect to the people that have expressed interest in serving the town in these capacities and and so no matter how you determine it I think you know the fact that we have these vacancies that billing for whatever set of reasons that I think we have solve for for most of the case and all that but what's really kind of holding things up is no recommendation effectively at this point in time powerless to the spotlight of pin action only ask the question of who's the plot and then the public gets a chance to see

fair but that doesn't necessarily mean that's we're going to get and so it's like to see, you know, an update to policy or law where we council can enforce a nomination or make our own.

I would just suggest you could do that, but you need to do that in order.

But we can change.

I think yes. I think the question is, you know, is it the desire of council that the mayor have sort of how to call it but like pocket veto on the process by not recommendation.

Um that's tended seems to be that's how it works. That's not the intention if it won't work like change the law and say it's clear that the intention is the mayor recommendation time but that time frame is one of

that's one of the clarification questions we have these I I mean, I hope we're all in agreement. We want to get to a regular order where we're processing these appointments in a timely fashion. It's the one now where the previous ones are backing up to the next. We got to just roll through these things and it shouldn't be that big of a deal because every six months some of these boards are statutoily required and therefore by not having them fully served seems to be undermined business. What's the appropriate do we are we talking about that now then or we talking about that on the 25th? I think on the 25th we have the appointments from June are coming back up again and we have recommendation we don't have a recommendation and what we do this you know August [clears throat] will be to update the ordinance. Um I want to make it specific because the thing may basically give us council to at any time whatever place

without considering the mayor's motion. Um I think a time limit or time frame might be appropriate to add in here for recommendations are expected. Um at least 30 days prior to expiration of the existing terms so we can vote people in before the terms expire or shortly there instead of having that process starts after the terms have already expired. Uh again that kind of forces us into a regular cadence where we're reviewing these upcoming terminations people and continue service or support. I will I mean are we ready to do this or I'm good to go. There's two there's two parts like there's the ordinance which affects um most of the boards the town code and there's the UDO which is specific I think to pluster process so although the ordinance is is just you just say words here there you have a hearing they don't have a hearing amendment Yeah.

So I guess what what I'm hearing is that it's it's unclear I mean right now whether you want to want want to move forward with directing staff to prepare an ordinance amendment or not. So I I don't want to operate in a gray space where there's an assumption that we are doing an ordinance amendment or

propose proposing an ordinance or we're not. So, do we want to hold on that or are we giving direction?

I I and some from my colleagues here, but I would like for staff to prepare the new appropriate language to update the ordinance and need to go and get the motion or get the get the process

and and that direction is to include a time limit for the mayor to provide a recommendation or to keep it. I'm I'm proposing a time limit that says that recommendations need to be made uh at least 30 days prior to term expirations. And if no such recommendations are made just okay. So you're saying to prepare it,

I want to dig some language.

I like I like

Yeah, I mean we need to get that fashion. I would also consider that if we go that direction and time it such thatffects amendment at the same time maybe we're not like in this state we have some adopted some later some other there so yeah we can put them on the same schedule right understanding that amendment requires additional staff that we do the adoption of codes You're an introduction at the same

when when do you all want this to come out?

Okay. So, we got appointments on the 25th. So we'll leave on the 25th hearing and then we'll work the planning with amendments the code mirror them together then kind of get process presentation before the appointments that all requested.

Yes.

And then we have five and remind me of the five appointments was there on four of them? There was just one that right?

Um we didn't get any we didn't get any recommendations from the mayor for for any of the appointment we got no recommendations. So I think most boards have consensus but we didn't get any recommendations which is

Okay. It's a PowerPoint uh before the appointment presentation on the bid and then direction is given to to draft and ordinance and go for council to consider.

Yes. for the on the 25th. Are you going to give us I mean my understanding we have four consensus will you be able to tell us a little bit about what wasn't consensus because that may sway some conversations

sure I can do that now voted so I can just

we have somebody who boards Yeah,

that was Yes, that's

taken care of. That's correct.

Yes, another vacancy.

So, you've got culture and arts that has several vacancies. You got parks and rag, you've got um planning board, and you've got multimodal four boards that are coming back. And each one of those toys has multiple positions and in some cases multiple categories. So like for parks and rec there's three regular positions plus a senior plus a

uh any other Yes.

All right.