Regular Town Council Meeting

Yeah, your wife's doing a good job. I'm good.

Good evening everyone.

All right. Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh I'll go ahead and call the meeting to order for Tuesday, February 24th, 2026. And I'll start out by saying this. Uh it's great to see so many people here in the council chambers. Uh we're we're one community, one apex, and uh just want to let you know everything will be fine tonight. Okay, we can take a deep breath. Everything will be fine. Are there any uh is there any military retired here um tonight? Any military?

I see Carl Hilton.

Carl Hilton. All right, Mr. Hilton, if you would come up, I would like for you to lead us in the pledge. You would come up, please. Thank you. If everyone please stand and join us for the pledge of

allegiance [cough] to the flag of the United States of Americ.

Thank you sir. All right, I want to read a quick statement. The town of Apex values and celebrates diversity and inclusion. We see diversity as a strength that binds our community together. Inviting members from different faith communities to deliver the invocation at the beginning of our council meetings supports this unity. Recognizing that not everyone practices the same traditions, we welcome you to have a private moment of silence. I would like all of you to join me if you're willing in a word of prayer. Let us bow our heads. Father God, we thank you for this time that we can gather as one community in the spirit of the peak of good living, the place we call home. Give us peace, love, and unity as we handle the business of the town. Give us your wisdom as we move forward again as one community and we give it all to you. You get the glory in

Jesus name. Amen.

All right. We have now announcements and petitions by the governing body and we'll start with mail pro. You have anything?

Yeah. Thank you, mayor. One thing I wanted to bring to the attention of the board. Um I'm the representative on the environmental advisory board and I've been working with them for a couple meetings and you may have heard some of the things we're talking about um involves getting the board more active and more uh involved in kind of the the decision-m process. So, one of the things that they did in the recent meeting was vote to have a second hearing from the applicant uh as part of their process that they're that's in process allow them to hear the results of the recommendations. [clears throat] And I've also um you've heard me a few times up here talk about my desire to have the EAB vote on the merits of proposal somehow. You know, there's some stuff that has to go through legal. It may require you to do amendment that we're working through. Uh but those are discussions that we're having. Want to let you know. Okay. Thank you, sir. Councilman Gray,

evening everyone. We are in what I like to call our most exciting time of the year, budget season. Um, and you know, one of the things I know me and my colleagues have have have mentioned for many years is it's always great and we really want as much participation as possible from the public in our budget process. We have surveys. We have things that you can do on the web. You can come here and speak at the meetings. But um I'm offering yet another opportunity. I I'm going to be asking that we place on our agenda um an additional public hearing at least every month until we get our budget passed and at the end of June, not wood. um to allow for a specific public hearing on budget issues just to give people an opportunity to talk specifically about the budget concerns. And that gives everyone an opportunity to bring forth ideas, bring

forth their, you know, their concerns, their ideas. Um, in a in a budget in a in a fiscal environment like this, it's always important to make sure that we are coming up with ways to um, you know, make sure that we are being fiscally responsible, but at the same time recognizing that there's a lot of things that the town needs. So, um, you'll see that on uh, the March uh, agenda. Um, welcome folks to come forward and make sure that you sign up for those public hearings. Okay. Thank you, Councilman. It's a great idea. Council Member Ziggger.

Uh, good evening everybody. No updates from you tonight, Mayor.

Thank you, sir. Council member Moon.

Good evening everyone. I don't have much update, but I'm excited to see so many of you here. It's not easy job. Uh, I always have to, you know, [sighs] struggle inside. Uh, because I want to make responsible decisions for our town and for our residents. So I believe every one of us have the same int intention. So thank you for your understanding and for your support. Yeah.

Thank you council member Moo. All right. Council member Reef.

Yeah. Thank you mayor. Um good evening everyone. I want to quickly um say I'm incredibly proud to be the uh liaison for um the Chamber of Commerce. And so I want to bring to everybody's attention something that was uh put together much more eloquently than I could have. Uh Lanne Casper uh at the chamber uh writes that about the uh run the peak that is coming up on March 7th. Um and bottom line is is uh when whether you're a seasoned runner or just out uh for some fun with friends. Run the Peak offers an energizing route, great atmosphere, and a chance to be part of something uniquely Apex. Even better if your running group can gather 10 or more participants. You'll receive an exclusive group discount to make registration easier. Um, there's a 10K

that starts at 8 a.m. There's a 5K that starts at 8:10. And there's a new time for the kids superhero fun run that I believe is a/4 mile and it begins at 9:00 a.m. So, uh, just uh, put Run the Peak uh, in your Google machine and um, you'll be able to find the registration. I believe it's at a website called it'syourun.com.

Just a quick question. Are you running, Councilman?

I am not, but I believe you two are.

Okay. [laughter] I uh I have my son who runs Apex Track and Apex Soccer. So yeah, he'll he'll be in there. He'll represent the family.

Very well.

All right. Good stuff. All right. I don't have any updates, so we'll move on. Um adoption of the meeting agenda.

You have it in front of you. Are there any recommended changes before the meeting agenda?

Adoption.

Motion.

All right. Motion. Mayor Pro.

Second.

Second. Ziggerman. All in favor say I. I.

Oppos. All right. Motion carries. All right. Move now to the consent agenda. Are there any recommended changes for the consent agenda? Hearing none. Is there a motion? Move adoption. All right. May pro 10 adoption.

Second.

All right. Second. Gray. Discussion. Hearing none. All in favor say I.

I. All right. Motion carries.

All right. Move now to the manager's report.

All right. Thank you, mayor. Good evening, council and mayor. just have a few items because I know we have a lot of people here to get to some public hearings and other items. So, I will start with a few updates. First is our electric meter change out. We have hit the post 10,000 point. So, we've got 10,000 meters replaced. Uh we'll continue on that program. As mentioned earlier, it's supposed to be done by the fall of this year. Uh the Salem Streetscaping project, if you've been downtown, is underway. I've got an update. It's a lot of technical cool stuff that's happening underneath the roadway. Uh they've put in the uh electric and fiber is in progress. They're doing the the storm trench drain. So, there's a lot of underground

work that's going on. So, in the next couple weeks once that's done, you'll start to maybe see some visual transformation there. So, have an update at the next meeting on that. The Apex Peakway connector, again, still under budget and accelerated a little bit on the time frame. We'll keep you updated on that. continue to have good progress there. The um I want to mention keeping the folks in Morrisville and our thoughts. They had a pretty significant fire at an apartment complex there last night. Uh 70 people were displaced. I think there were at least six injuries. Um I did receive a text from the manager of Morrisville thanking us. Our fire department uh is part of CAM and he was extremely grateful for the response that we did there. We also provided some coverage in Carrie as they put resources into Morrisville. Uh so the CAM program which is a unique thing worked beautifully uh yesterday. Unfortunately we had to utilize it. Uh but kudos to our department and to Carrie as well for their help with Morrisville.

Great.

The special events we've got uh one remaining for um at least one that I think is still open from 7:00 to 8:30 on the 28th. It's the United Strings of Color Partnership in Black Music. That's at the Howie Cultural Arts Center. Actually, I think I heard today that that's sold out. So, sorry that I mentioned it, but it's going to be a great event. Just [clears throat] don't rush to get tickets for that. [laughter] Uh we moving on to something we do have available, the Apex Restaurant Week, which is from February 23rd to March 1st, and you can get more details on that. We have a lot of restaurants participating, more than we had in previous years, and they've got some unique menu items. And so really get out there and support those restaurants. Next, Think Apex Awards. Nominations are still being accepted through March 13th and you can go to the town's website. If you just search for Think Apex Awards, you can submit a nomination through our website on that. Wanted to mention uh give an update on

Ask Apex. They continue to knock it out of the park. 93% of calls are resolved when you when you call our Ask Apex line. So that team is doing a great job. This is the first I've seen this. The average time to answer calls is down to 39 seconds. Uh so that is an excellent resource for our community. If you have questions, please utilize Ask Apex and they are continue to do a great job on the customer service there. All right, just a couple more. Uh, the next I received this information today, so some may have heard it before, but US News and World Report ranked Apex as number 10 nationwide as the most desirable places to live in the United States. Uh, so that's an awesome feat, right? Yeah, that's [applause] I won't rehash every award that Apex has won over the years. The article did mention a couple, so I'll mention those. number one boom town. Uh Apex, also named the safest town in the state of North Carolina, one of the nation's best small cities. Um I also don't want do want to give some love to one of our neighbors. Um I heard they got bonus points because of proximity to Apex, but Carrie did turn in the top 50. Um [laughter] they were they were 49th, so I want to give them credit for being top 50. Um and we'll we'll continue to work with them and maybe get them up to top 10. So,

all right, enough on that. [laughter]

Friendly.

Sorry, Carrie. Sorry, Russ. Um, the last thing I had was just seeking a little bit of clarification and so the public and staff could hear on the public hearing discussion. The intention is just to have not a presentation from staff, but public to

just the public the opportunity to talk.

Okay.

Staff gets plenty opportunity to talk.

Okay. Just want to make sure what the expectation was. We're excited about that opportunity as well. So, thank you for that clarification. And I believe that is all that I have.

All right. Thank you for that report. All right. We'll move now to uh public forum. This is uh opportunity for committee members to speak. Um

Oh, I'm so sorry. [laughter] You sure you want to do this tonight?

That's okay.

Okay.

All right. Go for it. My fault.

I can't say no report after that. [laughter]

No report. Um so two two things. Just a reminder that we do have advisory board vacancies um that will be coming back to the council on March 10th. We are seeking uh ETJ representatives. So, if you live within the ETJ, please, please, please apply. We've got an opening on the planning board. Um and then if you're in the corporate limits, uh we have openings on the environmental advisory board, uh planning board, as well as um the board of adjustment. Um and then the the only other thing I had was the um house committee on property tax reform met on the 18th. Uh no significant updates to provide at this time. Uh we are monitoring that closely. Um they received a lot of presentations around what's going on at the federal level. Um we anticipate there will be another update on March 18th. Um and then we anticipate a budget to come sometime end of March, 1 of April after the primary. So we're monitoring that closely and we've got some talking points that we'll be passing out. We'll also be posting them on the website just to educate our community on what that would mean should property tax reform become an issue for our community. It's all my business.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

All right. Now, we go to a public forum. This is opportunity for community members to speak. Um, I just want you to be mindful of there could be quite a few people here speaking tonight. So, watch your time closely. Uh, there's a series of lights here and the timer there. Uh, yellow light. You have 45 seconds left. So, we'll move forward with the list. At this point, we have only 10 people, you know, signed up.

That's correct.

Wow. Okay. or public forum.

Okay. Gotcha.

Got a

All right. Very cool. [laughter] I understand. [clears throat] All right. We'll move on. First to speak tonight is Don Kausalino.

Don Kazalino, 3632 Bosco Road. Welcome

to your life. There's no turning back. and help me make the most of freedom and of pleasure. Nothing [singing] ever lasts forever. As the song goes, I can't stand this indicision. Married with a lack of vision. This line captures how residents feel when major decisions in our town are made without transparency, notice, and willingful, meaningful input. I quote these lines because they capture how decisions in this town can feel. When residents and surrounding community are told what will happen, not asked what should happen. With the city of Apex, people feel repeatedly learn about major projects after approvals are complete. Alignments are chosen or impacts are described as unavoidable. But in most cases, the city has its own preferences and selects the options that work for them. We the people rarely see other possibilities or understand why one path was chosen. Transparency matters. Our government exists to protect our freedoms and our liberty, not to act in ways that take from us to spend our money without accountability. There's a room where the light won't find you. We have a constitutional right to know where our government is going and that right is being ignored. This matters when just look at the agenda and review all the consent agenda items. You'll see major actions move forward with little notice. Special town council meetings, retreats, work sessions, advanced projects without a public forum even when they impact property owners. Some agenda materials are not provided to the public, limiting we the ability to participate fully. Public records are delayed for months or years, leaving we the people blind to decisions affecting our money, resources, and rights. Taken

together, the public sees a pattern. Government making choices with our money and resources while we, the people have no meaningful chance to participate. Our constitutional rights, freedom, liberty, and protection from government overreach are being ignored. Government exists to protect we the people and not keep us in the dark. say that you'll never never never never never never need it. We are told we don't need the full picture, but we the people do. We the people see it. We the people hold government accountable. Everybody wants to rule the world, but government is not supposed to rule. It is supposed to serve and protect we the people. Thank you.

[applause]

Thank you for speaking tonight. Uh, Elizabeth Stit,

Elizabeth Ray Stit, 3113 Friendship Road, Mayor, Town Council. Good evening. I do not understand the town's social media policy in regards to elected officials postings. And the reason why I questioned it was recently there were some postings and the town came out and said it was subject to public records um retention. So I said, "Okay, fine. I'll submit a public records request and say, can you please provide me the policy?" Well, the social media policy I received was for the town itself, but it wasn't for elected officials. And then I was given links to two documents. Um, one was 130 pages and one was 111 pages um, which were the state policies um, as to the rules of which Apex [clears throat] must follow. And the further statement made to me was nobody could explain it

to me because that is outside of the scope of the public records request. So I'm here on behalf of a number of my neighbors that we would really just like to have some clear guidance. When you post, are you acting on behalf of the town? And if so, are those the records that are going to get retained? or when you post is it not on behalf of the town we just would like it to be labeled have some clarity it should not be this difficult for us to understand what your role is and when you're acting in the capacity that you are so I ask that you please put together an actual policy that can be shared out I know you guys talked about it on day three of your retreat I listened to that and still it was not any more clear to me. So, please, if you could put a simple statement together, I can't imagine that it would take you that long. Thank you.

Thanks, Mr. Speaking. [applause] Thank you.

Uh Yuri Ross, mayor, council, how are you? My name is Yuri Rojos, 100 North Salem Street. Uh, I'm here to just pretty much let you guys know that the Baptist Church has done so much for our community throughout all these years. They're great partners of ours in downtown. Most important, they pay for every single business down there, not once, all the time. And we need prayer at the moment, guys, downtown Apex big time. And you guys know that. Thank you for the video you put out for us. Uh, also I think we need to do something about that zoning. You know, I think we need some parking. I'm here 20 years. Literally this week, signed my lease 20

years ago. I got a wonderful certificate on my wall the mayor gave me. Revitalize downtown Apex. We've never revitalized the parking. We're dying. It's hurting. And if we want to move down to 50 on the best towns, it's not going to be good. So for taxpayers, it's a no-brainer, guys. Reszone. Let's put a parking deck. It's not costing the taxpayer any money. Makes no sense, you know. So, thank you. Hopefully, you guys vote your conscience and vote survival of businesses in downtown Apex, you know. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Ross. Appreciate [applause] Okconor.

Dr. Michelle Hoffner Connor, 2664 Jordan Point Boulevard. At 20 weeks pregnant, a woman prepared for an ice storm with her husband and children. They were concerned about losing power and record cold weather. They have a generator that can last a couple of days, but have been warned that outages may exceed this length of time. So, they buy an indoor rated propane based space heater, but they feel nervous about this option. It has an oxygen sensor, so if the oxygen in the room decreases below a certain value, it is supposed to automatically shut off. They buy battery operated carbon monoxide detectors for their home. They have a friend who works for the fire department to consult on how best to set it up, but they still feel nervous, especially given that she's pregnant. So her OB/GYN is consulted and the plan is discussed. Is this safe? In no uncertain terms, the OB says no. Under no circumstances would it be safe for any of you, especially that baby, because that baby's hemoglobin has a higher affinity to bind carbon monoxide release from that heater. He could become hypoxic before she ever develops any symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning. And if she did, well, there's an ice storm outside, so it would be impossible to get medical attention. The

baby, in the meantime, could die. She's shocked. She would never intentionally do anything to bring harm to this baby and his development. And yet, had she not consulted her doctor, an expert, she could have made an irreparable mistake that would harm him. It goes to show we all have blind spots and we don't know what we don't know. Being curious and learning sometimes makes all the difference in ensuring these mistakes don't happen to begin with. Because we if we don't learn in time, the consequences are at minimum serious and oftentimes grave. If Apex allows the data center to be built, especially so close to people's homes, they will likely experience irreparable harms. And before you think, there goes Michelle with another speech, another one-off scenario, who even knows if this really happened. Let me assure you all it did, because I've left out a detail. The baby that she's carrying is not hers. It's mine and my husband's. And we are very excited to become parents. And this was the scariest part of the pregnancy that we've experienced thus far. And we're happy to know that he's unharmed. and growing well and big and we want nothing more than him to thrive after he's born. But I've demonstrated in this room and so have many others that the data center will cause harms and will prevent him from thriving along with everyone else's children and will probably harm me and everyone else as well. So obviously that means it shouldn't come here at all. Thank you.

Thanks for speaking. Congratulations. [applause] S.

Good evening, Mayor Gilbert, members of the Apex Town Council and town staff. My name is Sarah Vunach. I'm a 26 year resident of Apex and I resided at 2924 Jordan Boulevard. I'm glad to be back today. I gave a little bit of more of my background, professional background last time I was here on February 10th and I'm very glad to be back again today. On that day, I gave part one of my narrative on a tale of two data centers. In the first data center,

the one proposed for New Hill, I identified how generating backup power for a 300 megawatt data center on on site is akin to having a polluting power plant in the town with its model peak of good living. The on-site backup genet are expected to run for multiple hours over the period of year for testing and then for backup power for the data center should there be a power outage or emergency from Duke. These backup generators likely to be powered by a fossil fuel such as diesel or natural gas will emit multiple harmful gases as well as soot that will lead to formation of fine particulate matter or PM2.5 at downwind distances as I showed last time. Although these generators are only used during emergencies, they can be having outsized health impacts emitting more nitrogen oxides than natural gas plants. Emissions of nitrogen oxides from diesel fired emergency engines are 200 to 600 times greater per unit of electricity produced than new or controlled existing central power plants fired on natural gas per the South Coast Air Quality Management District which is the home of Los Angeles the smog city on the planet but despite historic improvements in air quality during the past several decades. If you like to have a visual of how fine particles are formed, I think what you can simply do is take an orange peel and when you peel an orange, you have hundreds and thousands of aerosols that are formed. These are small liquid droplets and these contain when they have particles in the suspended in the air. They're invisible to the human eye and that's how you create aerosols which are solid liquid droplets that are suspended in the air. Now why are such small particles important? Given that very small size, these fine particulate at matter of PM2.5 because of the size two and a half microns cause serious health issues by entering deep into the lungs and bloodstream leading to respiratory problems, aggravated asthma, bronchitis, reduced lung function, cardiovascular issues, heart attacks, stroke, irregular heartbeat, heart failure, so on and so forth ultimately leading to premature death and sometimes lung cancer with children, older adults and those with existing heart lung conditions being most vulnerable. Now to make this point a little bit more clear, I relate to study I performed in 2000 for ozone air

pollution North Carolina's four emerging four major urban areas including the triangle region which were in violation of the EPA's national ambient air quality standard. This was 25 years ago. Ground level ozone is a result of a chemical reaction between pollutants such as nitrogen oxides and volatile organic compounds emitted by vehicles, power plants, refineries, and other industrial sources in the presence of sunlight. Working with the state department of environmental quality or DEEQ and a team of investigators, I identified that Duke Energy's coal burning power plant emissions were the key contributors to ozone. In advance of EPA's regulatory actions, the state legislature then passed the Clean Smoke Stacks Act of 2002. Her historic legislation that mandated Duke to significantly reduce emissions of nitrogen oxide and sulfur oxides from their units across the state. Through air quality modeling, I projected that the North Carolina would have clean air in 2012 and this was published in 2006. As is projected, ground level ozones drop significantly in the next decade and the citizens of North Carolina have since enjoyed clean air. A period study subsequently documented the statewide improvements in respiratory, cardiovascular, and cardiovascular health in North Carolina due to the enforcement of the Clean Smoke Stacks Act. Death rates from respiratory illnesses like asthma, emphyma and pneumonia drastically decline which save the citizens of North Carolina substantial in health costs. Now I would like to turn your attention to the second data center. This data center is not powered by diesel generators. Does not run large computer servers. Does not put the equivalent of four super Walmarts near a residential area. Does not have a humming sound. Does not deal with bits and bites. However, it's expected to have perhaps 100,000 or more rectangular blocks that one can hold in their hands. These blocks are made of paper and they have valuable information of all kinds. Silence is a virtue at this data center. When the children and citizens of Apex are exposed to these blocks, their overall knowledge increases and they have cognitive progress rather than decline as has been documented and exposed to air pollution from the first kind of data center. I'm

referring to the approved and planned new data center in Wake County or the Wake County Library that's coming up near the intersection of Humei Olive and Old US one. So if you want to see how it looks like when you hold in your hand, [clears throat] these are the data blocks of this other data center coming up in Bay County. As one of my favorite authors, Dr. Seuss would say, the more that you read, the more things you will know. The more you learn, the more places you will go. We fully support such a data center. When you have some of this kind of a data center coming up in a town like this, you're expected to have the overall standard of the Wake County school systems go up and we offer a brighter future for our children rather than send children who are affected by the first kind of data center to the new planned children's hospital in Apex. Imagine a scenario where one end of the town is the source of health problem that is directly feeding to a newly built healthcare facility on the other side of town. I'm sure you would like to see more and more bright minds come out of a community like the very eloquent young man the town's mayor Gilbert interviewed last night during a live Facebook session. And such growth of young and bright minds can happen only when we foster the growth of the second kind of data center and not the first in a residential town that's appealing for suburban living and calls itself the peak of good living and continues to be ranked as the one of the top small towns in the country like we heard earlier from the US news and reports ranking. also like to bring to attention the following two items that are of interest to the town council. The first is an interim report that just released last week from the North Carolina governor's energy policy task force. This was created to develop recommendations for how to manage increasing electricity demand while maintaining adequate, reliable, affordable, and clean electricity for North Carolina. They highlight that in Duke Energy's integrated load plan, the energy load in Carolina will increase between 16 to 60% over the next 15 years, while we only grew 7% in the last two decades. Just think about the projected growth of the demand that's coming within the next 15 years. They have made it nine preliminary recommendations this report expect to have refined and detailed

recommendations in a year from now. The second report I would like you to pay attention to is as part of a $175 million initiative to modernize coal plants, the current administration through the Department of Energy's plan to award $35 million to Duke Energy Carolas to upgrade two coal fired units at this Blues Creek Steam Station in Stokes County. This facility was one of the several units that I carefully studied in 2002 to address our state's air quality issues and that led to historic reductions then under the North Carolina's Clean Smokes Tax Act and they led to improving the public health of North Carolina citizens. It remains to be seen how this coal plant modernization by Duke to serve the state's energy needs will also protect the public health of its citizens. Looking to our neighboring state up north in Virginia, a total of 174 air quality permits to data center backup generators have been issued as of December 1, 2024 with more than half of them in Luden County, also called as the data center alley. From a preliminary analysis performed for these data centers, even assume that actual emission only 10% of the permitted level, the Virginia data centers could cause approximately 15 to 20 premature deaths each year and over 14,000 asthma cases among other other health implications resulting in a total annual public health burden of 2003 million. And that's a number I want you all to think about. To conclude, while there are several concerns related to the proposed data center, excess emission that affect the quality of air we breathe, excess demand on water that will screen the local resources, excess noise that will affect sleep, excess cost to consumers to hire due to high electricity bills. The question that I implore you to ask yourselves is which of the two types of data centers would the town council prefer to have and promote for the welfare of its citizens? I look forward to being back at a future time to discuss the two reports that I mentioned. Thank you for the opportunity to the testimonial and for the time and attention today.

Thank you. [applause] Next up, Bill Dam.

Three minutes.

Hi, Mr. Mayor. Bill Dam. Um, I live at 2556 Grant Drive in New Hill. Um, I want to thank the town council and members and staff for all your hard work on data center issues. Um, seven weeks ago I spoke in opposition to the proposed hyperscale data center, the the so-called digital campus located just two miles away from my home. Since then, there have been countless discussions on social media and informal and informal meetings. there's but there's no central place for the public to access the information. So I'm wondering why can't there be a website? I think I posted it on one of the social media um chats and didn't see a response. So I'm not sure how much two-way conversation that is, but a website would be obvious um for all everybody to be able to check. Maybe even some of that social media posting and comments could be collected there. the public records, the all the information that we're asking for so we can have one place. Now, you might ask, isn't that on the interactive apex interactive zoning map that shows uh but that's the most recent update for that was um the September 25 2025 EAB environmental advisory board suggesting voluntary zoning conditions. That's the most recent information on that site um without any public comment. Now, I was really happy to hear um the mayor prom mention that AeaB wants to have more interactions with the with the um town council and what we'd like to see is that there's a go back to the data center uh discussions with the EAB and the and any other boards that can be involved. Um on the financial side, where's the data? We keep asking for cost costbenefit

analysis showing tax revenues. Um how long will those revenues last? What's the real cost of town would be? Uh we want to see numbers, not just promises. So I'm going to stop reading there. I'm kind of curious. Did anybody here have asthma? I grew up with asthma. I grew up outside Washington DC. And if if you haven't experienced asthma, you can't breathe. You literally are sucking air. You're wheezing. Your lungs get filled and you can't breathe and you need I had to get adrenaline shots. Sometimes I literally felt like I was going to die. Now the good side of it is that I became an environmental scientist because I wanted to live. I wanted to breathe. I've moved around the country, around the world, living in different places, trying to find clean air and a healthy environment. And it's perplexes me that we moved from

I'll continue over there.

Thank you. [applause]

All right. Have Barbara Collins. All right. Barbara Collins 901

stand front mic. There you go.

Forward lane.

Apex. Uh I think by now many people know me.

Y

let's can be in my time. It's mine. People are talking without listening. They're in a world where silence is given, not chosen. So, I'm going to stand here silently so that you can feel the pressure of

being silenced. Because people can't be silenced because the words of the prophet are written on the subway walls in tenement holes. It whispers the sound of silence. We will not be silenced. That's all. Thank you for speaking. [applause] George Hogan. [clears throat] Good evening. Uh my name is George Hogan. I live in Apex, uh 2140 Victoria Lane. Uh, I voted for every person on this council because I expect disciplined, proportionate governments, especially when it comes to expanding authority. In June 23, you guys, maybe not all of you, but you approve what is described as a limited trial of 10 flock ALPR cameras in part because of car breakins. I want to walk you through that decision trace or I want to be walked through that decision trace. Who initiated the program? Did APD approach a vendor with a documented need or was a vendor

approaching the town with a capability? What written problem statement was produced? What baseline crime data was established? And what alternative analysis was actually conducted? If this was a trial, then where is the written evaluation of that trial? What measurable data justified extending this authority now through January 31st of 2027? Apex's violent crime and crime in general remains dramatically lower than the state and national averages. Property crime is significantly below the North Carolina average. There has been no p publicly documented structural surge that would justify a permanent tracking infrastructure that we have in place now. 10 cameras, many home breakins, many breakins cited in the neighborhoods in commercial lots that happened a few years ago. We all remember it. It was at Home Depot. It was at Lifetime Fitness. Well, guess what? They do not have town deployed flock cameras, nor do they have private flock cameras, but Apex decided to deploy them. Decided to deploy 10 of them. So the deployment does not align with this problem statement. Apex right now we're spending $40,000 a year to be spied on on this system is a recurring investment in surveillance authority. APD has stated that is the data is retained for 30 days. That's what they say. However, Flock recently updated their terms of service to expand the vendor rights over system outputs and product improvement use. Whether Apex is governed strictly by this 30-day policy or this is just what APD said or are they governed by broader vendor terms, that depends entirely on the MSA that was signed. I requested the agreement on February 16th. It has not been produced, but you guys have been communicating with me. Without it, however, neither

residents nor this council can independently verify the retention. And Apex is not alone in reconsidering this. Today, Denver cancelled their flock contract. Santa Cruz severt ties. Flagstaff, Sedona, Hillsboro, North Carolina cancelled their contract. All I want to know is the decision trace, who initiated it, what the baseline was, and the evaluation.

Thank you, Mr. Appreciate it. [applause] All right, final speaker sign up. Doug Rouse.

Uh, thank you to the council and those in attendance. Um, my name is Doug and I reside at 370 South Walker Street in Kerry, right by, you know, don't don't hate me for being from Kerry. Um, and I'd like to speak to the New Hill data center. Um, so I just said I'm from I live in Kerry right now, but unlike a whole lot of people in this area, I can say I am from Apex, North Carolina. You know, with my family having moved here in 1999. And to put that in perspective, you know, back then folks from Kerry would make fun of the kids from Apex for being from the sticks and it was kind of true. You know, there was no there was no Beaver Creek, there was no community center, there was no skate park, there was no nothing. Um, I often feel like Apex and I grew up together as folks from all stripes of life, um, found a home here and then subsequently got an ego about it when it was named the best small town in America in 2015. Um, having lived here for so long, there's actually one date in particular I'd like to speak to, which is October 5th of 2006. Uh, a hazardous waste plant in Apex run by environmental quality industrial services had a major chemical fire. Um, improper storage of hazardous materials resulted in chemical plumes that rained down on residents, myself and my family included. Um, these were the days before social media. Um and you

know I was a child and already in bed when my parents just happened to be watching the weather channel and the alert um about what was happening went off went across you know the bottom of the screen and so we could have just as easily you know missed that alert at the time. Um and the alert at the time was telling us to shelter in place um followed by an alert the following morning that told us to evacuate and we made a beline for my grandparents home in Chapel Hill uh where we ended up spending the next couple of days. Um, I was unaffected at the time. Like I said, I was already asleep, you know, when the shelter in place alert went out and all I remember personally from the time is spending a couple days with my grandparents over in Chapel Hill. But my childlike nonchalant attitude about it all um is a completely separate thing from the danger I and other Apex residents were in. um which isn't even to speak of the dozens of residents who were medically harmed by the effects and the 17,000 residents who were evacuated from Apex. So, as we consider opening a potentially hazardous facility here in Apex, I'm sure many residents like myself are considering the cost. I think that you've heard far more, you know, an expert insight of that tonight. you know, this is just more of a personal anecdote of, you know, let's not be cavalier about this. Um, but going from the local to the global, um, in January of this year, the United Nations University Institute for Water, Environment, and Health decided that for much of the world, classifications such as water stress and water crisis were no longer sufficient. And accordingly, they added a new category, water bankruptcy. In the midst of this, do we really want to enable the types of facilities that will consume at least a million gallons of water per day? Thank you.

Thank you for speaking. [applause]

All right. Thanks to all who came out to speak tonight. Uh we do hear you. Uh we will go ahead and close the public forum at this time. Uh we'll move now to

proclamations and special presentations. And I want to start by saying this. Um I talked the other night. Thursday was my annual state of the town message. And I I spoke about last year and and what seemed to be a divided community during that time and um something that really I'm passionate about unity and ensuring that we all come together and make sure Apex is our focus. This is our home. And there's one there are three ways to bind us together. And that's music. We heard music tonight. arts and sports. And so we just witnessed the sports piece. Our amazing USA hockey team brought home the gold. And then we we we also

the men too.

And the men too.

Yeah. [laughter]

Yes. [applause]

And we also saw how the Toy Hills beat Duke a few weeks ago. [cheering] [applause]

I know. I know. I know.

I know we're pack

I know. Wolfpack. I knew that was coming. I knew it. I wasn't even going to talk.

I knew I knew. [laughter]

Trying to keep y'all involved. Um but here's the deal. You know, my grandmother, Councilman Gray, used to always say this. Um give people their flowers while they can smell them. And so, not waiting until they go home, but recognize them while they're here. And there's a young man that I've watched since he was this tall as a little boy. And he has gone on to do some incredible things, exceptional things representing our town, the town of Apex. So tonight, it is my honor to recognize him accordingly. I'm very proud of him and uh I have quite the award for him. But first, I would like to ask Mr. Clerk, if you would please ceue up the video

and then we'll proceed with the rest of the uh recognition.

Like, what does the term black excellence mean to you and how did it influence your design for this journey? The term black excellence to me really means that no matter what you're doing, no matter what stat you are in life, that you're doing something to the best of your ability and achieving excellence to your own self. That really what uh black excellence means to me. Um how does this really influence the design was I wanted to figure out a way to honor and uh amplify the um I guess the true essence of what this city holds and that's a black community here. Um sometimes I feel like it's forgotten [music] but in other ways too. Um there's a lot of great things that happened here um in the city of Charlotte um and a lot of the founding um people in the community and areas kind of helped shape and built the city what it is now.

When you talk like that, the fabric of black excellence speaks to resilience and interconnectedness. How are those ideas in this design as [music] well?

Yeah. Well, obviously speaking of fabrics, um the first way to uh guess give a visual representation of something that has the city kind of embraces is a jersey, you know, with [music] this jersey right here is one of the most prominent jerseys in Hornets history. Um the city loves this jersey on this template. So I feel like starting off with that base silhouette um kind of emphasized like the fabric of excellence because at [music] this point in time in this time frame we had Dale Curry, Mugsy Bogues, Lonzo Lonzo Morton, Larry Johnson, those type of guys that came here and set the [music] excellence on our side um with the Hornets. So and the city was backing that. So given that is more [music] I guess this right here this fabric this garment right here and this template of jersey from 8897 is that fabric of excellence that the city uh embraces and sees obviously past, present and future even up to current now. This right here with the trailblazers set the way for the Hornets. You know, Charlotte has a rich

culture of black history. So, tonight it is my honor to recognize Mr. Mike Jones. I do have a mayoral tonight and I'm going to read this letter that would be be presented to you. On behalf of the town of Apex, it is my distinct honor and privilege to formally recognize you for your extraordinary achievements, visionary leadership, and steadfast commu commitment to community service. As a proud native of Apex and graduate of Apex High School, class of 2014, you exemplify the excellence, perseverance, and character that define our community. Your journey from Apex to national prominence reflects both remarkable talent and an unwavering dedication to uplifting others. In June 2023, you designed the first ever black excellence jersey for Major League Soccer's Charlotte FC entitled Excellence Was Once a Dream. In February 2024, you designed the first ever black excellence jersey for the National Hockey League's Carolina Hurricanes entitled Still A Rose Grew, which sold out within 30 minutes with proceeds benefiting Durham Success Summit and its mission to provide career readiness programming for young black men ages 18 to 24 in Durham and the Triangle Region. Continuing continuing your historic impact in February 2025, you designed the National Basketball Associations and the Charlotte Hornets first ever Black Excellence jersey and title Home is Where the Heart Is H.

The campaign earned national acclaim, including a 2025 Silver Cleo Award and a 2025 Emmy Award nomination, further solidifying your influence across professional sports and creative industries. In collaboration with the Jordan brand and the Jordan Wings program, you have also mentored youth in transformative design initiatives, including the creation of the 23 11 Racing driver Tyler Reic's great five car for the 2023 NASCAR Cup Series Robo 400 and contributing to the design of a Jordan Retro One sneaker. Grandson, how you doing? Released in April 2024. Through these collaborations, you have demonstrated that mentorship and opportunity can inspire the next generation of leaders and creators. Beyond your professional accomplishments, your heart for service is evident through the launch of the four the kids in collaboration with My Brother's Keeper of Charlotte Meckllinburgg. Through annual giveback initiatives, you have collected more than 1,300 toys to serve over 300 children during the Christmas season and have provided clothing and food to unhoused individuals throughout the Charlotte region. Your actions embody compassion, unity, and perseverance. for your visionary leadership, groundbreaking cultural impact, and unwavering dedication to uplifting communities. The town of Apex proudly presents you with the mayoral honor of excellence award, and the mayoral golden shoe leadership of honor, a symbolic recognition representing peace, unity, compassion, and perseverance. Your accomplishments bring immense pride to Apex and serve as an enduring inspiration to our residents, especially the young people who see in you what is possible through creativity, hard work, and service. With sincere admiration and gratitude, I remain very truly yours, Mayor Jacqu Gilbert. So, Mr. Jones,

please come up. [applause]

[applause]

Go get your jerseys. While you're getting your jerseys, because I want the community to see the jerseys, I will ask council member colleagues to come down if you would mind and help me with this presentation. All right. So, he brought the uh the famous jerseys here. That's awesome. Yeah.

I'm have I'm have my colleagues hold them up. Okay. Is that all right?

All right.

Here. You hold up.

All right. So, on behalf of the town of Apex, thank you so much for representing us. Well, you illuminate Apex and keep going. All right. We're certainly proud of you and again, watching you grow up as a young man, this has been incredible to just sit back and enjoy what you're doing. Okay. So, this is for you. Thank you.

All right. [applause] Last but not least, I signed the bottom of it, but I want you to really hold on to this because this shoe means a lot to me. Um, and it represents the steps, okay, of perseverance. There are a lot of trials and tribulations in what we do as we try to elevate and serve people and that's what you're doing. So the goal is symbolic to that. So I wanted you to have this. Hey, this is from No Pars here. This is from my my account. Okay. Just want y'all to know that to get that out. Okay. This is for you, sir. All right. [applause] I'm not I'm not the one to publicly speak. Um community is everything. My parents taught me that from a young age. And um that's really what supports you at the end of the day. So, um, the fact

that I'll be able to just represent my family, um, first giving heart to God, but also represent Apex and every you go through interviews. People say Raleigh, but if you really know about the city, obviously Apex is obvious in the triangle. So, um, I do have pride and I take it with me everywhere I go. So, I just thank you all too, you know, of you all, but you all are family. I appreciate you all being here. So, thank you'all and thank you all again for this honor. Uh, it's truly a blessing for sure.

[applause] [applause]

Goodbye. Congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations 1900 1998.

I just got to make sure I wasn't about to trip you up.

Okay, we'll move on now to public hearings. And we have public hearing one annexation and then reszoning for council road and it's request to

withdraw.

Withdrawal. Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

We can do that. Two different motions.

Okay. All right. So, is there a motion for the first the annexation?

So, they want us to hold it. Are they asking for us to table it?

Annexation is withdrawal and reszoning is withdrawal.

Oh, they're both withdrawn.

They're they're both withdrawn. There's no need for a vote. Okay. All right. I thought they was supposed motion to withdraw the addexation and the res.

There's no need.

Oh, no need to.

No need.

No need to.

All right. Moving on. Open hearing three. Reszoning case 25 CZ12 Apex Baptist Church. Miss Amanda Bunts.

Good evening. This resoning is at 111 Jones Street. This place in the heart of downtown. It's at the northeast corner of Jones Street and Hollowman Street. Uh the uses to the north are and the west are single family. You have uh CC Jones Park to the south and Apex Baptist Church to the east. Uh the zoning is of the subject property is mixed office retail residential conditional use as are all the properties north of the subject property. Uh the properties to the west are highdensity single family. The park is conservation buffer and the um the part of the church property closest to the site is neighborhood business conditional use. Uh the proposed zoning for the parcel is office and institutional conditional zoning. The 2485 lane east map designates the subject property as medium density residential and office employment. The subject property uh is located within the Apex National Register Historic District. It contains two

structures, the Bailey House built in 1950 and a concrete house built in 1957, both of which are listed as contributing structures to the National Register District. The applicant conducted a neighborhood meet conducted neighborhood meetings on July 28th, 2025 and January 8th, 2026. Uh the property along with several other properties as I mentioned was reszoned to mixed office residential retail in uh 2005 with the conditions uh of limiting the uses to single family duplex accessory apartments and business office and with conditions including that uh all structures listed as contributing uh shall follow the latest edition of the secretary of interior standards and that all Off- streetet parking should be limited to the rear or side driveway of subject properties. Uh this is a view of the subject property from Hollowman Street looking northwest. This is the concrete um house. Uh this is a view looking at the corner um of Jones and Hollowman Street. [clears throat] and then a straight on view of the Bailey House which faces Jo Street. The current zoning of the property does not allow the used church or place of worship. Apex Baptist Church desires to demolish the concrete block house and relocate the Bailey house closer to the intersection in order to allow room for the construction of a tabletop parking structure. The UDO prohibits relocation of historic structures within the National Register Historic District in order to protect the integrity of the district. For homes that are eligible to be relocated elsewhere, uh, an historic preservation easement and rehabilitation agreement shall be granted to a qualified holder of historic preservation easements. Further, the UDO prohibits the town from accepting any development application for a property on which an historic

structure has been demolished for 48 months. Therefore, the property must be reszoned in order for the church for the used church or place of worship to be permitted and for the 48-month waiting period to not apply and for the allow the Bailey house to be relocated. Um, and the zoning conditions uh the zoning is necessary so that a historic preservation easement and rehabilitation agreement for the Bailey house is not required. For the list of proposed uses, the applicant has uh listed church or place of worship, Greenway Park, youth or day camps, medical or dental office, office, business or professional, parking garage public, floral shop, studio for art, and pet services. I did want to clarify that the use parking garage public is defined as one that is owned and maintained by the town but with p public private partnership allowed. So um it's not ju the parking structure necessar to be used by the church. So that would be a use that would have to be owned and maintained by the town. Um the conditions that are offered as I've stated before um have been revised um since the planning board heard this two weeks ago. Um there has been a change to ensure that the Bailey house will not be demolished. previous wording when it went to planning board did not include word wording to ensure that the house would not be demolished. So that is one modest improvement to the zoning conditions. Um but it still does not require the preservation easement or rehabilitation agreement. Still allows for the concrete structure to be demolished without the 48-month waiting period. [snorts] Uh the other zoning conditions, the parking structure shall include a brick wall with a minimum height of three and a half feet above the deck floor. Um and there was some modification to the materials of the screening wall. Um and

so the next sentence, the planning director or designation may approve alternative building materials or architectural treatment. Uh they've proposed a type A planted buffer along the northern property line. Uh the parking structure uh has the following architectural conditions. U a maximum uh blank wall area of 20 ft. Uh ground floor facade treatment of any parking structure shall be continued on upper stories. And then plantings between the parking structure and Jones and Hollowman streets um provided they must be within not be within 10 ft of any water lines, apex water lines. There's zoning conditions um restricting the temperature of the color of of lighting fixtures and requirement that lights be extinguished no later than 12 a.m. However, uh exterior security lighting may remain lit after 12 a.m. for security purposes. Um there's a condition requiring at least one trash receptacle on each parking level. Only one level of parking shall have access to andor from Jones Street. Parking deck signage limited to Hollowman Street except for incidental signs which is something like one way something small directional [snorts] and a new condition offered since planning board. If a parking deck is constructed on the property, there shall be a traffic attendant at each parking deck entrance to direct traffic 30 minutes before the start and 30 minutes after the conclusion of Sunday church services. The traffic attendant may be a police officer, church employee, or church volunteer. Uh this resoning uh was exempt from meeting with the environmental advisory board. Planning [snorts] staff is recommending denial of the resoning and planning board agreed with that re and recommended by vote of 6 to2. The 2045 land use map does classify the subject property as medium density residential or office um employment and the office and institutional conditional zoning district is consistent with that land use map

classification. However, the proposed resoning is not reasonable and in the public interest for the following reasons. Reszoning would allow for the demolition of the historic concrete house which is contributing and the relocation of the Bailey house without the 48-month waiting period to submit a development application. Even though the Bailey house is proposed to be relocated on the same parcel, moving the house poses a risk to the structure. The standards and the UDO were added in order to protect the structures within and the integrity of the Apex National Register Historic District. Planning staff does not agree with the proposed wording of condition 1B which removes the requirement for that preservation easement and rehabilitation agreement for the Bailey house as is required for all other historic structures in the town and the ETJ. Finally, the resoning would allow for the construction of a tabletop parking structure or parking lot for the adjacent church. A tabletop parking structure is atypical for this area and expansion of parking to the west encroaches into the residential character of the neighborhood. The church's current parking lot does not have access to Jones Street. This would change if the resoning is approved. An expanded parking area, whether as a tabletop parking structure or as a surface parking lot with access to Jones Street, would bring more vehicular activity anytime the parking is open to the public and not just during church services. Happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Right. Thanks for the presentation. Any questions for response? I I do have one question with regard to that their zoning condition 1B. I know that staff has had opposition to that. Can you just kind of walk me through some of the I guess the presidential concerns that I mean if if we make that adjustment in this instance, do we have to worry about this in other locations downtown?

Right. So the primary concern is that the UDO currently prohibits the relocation of his structures within the National Register historic district. Um and especially for those that are

contributing structures. Um when a historic district is when you receive that nomination and get that designation approved, it's for the fabric of all the structures together and how they all interrelate to one another. It's not necessarily based on a particular structure. It's the combination of the whole is important. Um, and so the UDO specifically prohibits the relocation of structures if you're in the National Register District. Outside the National Register Historic District, relocation is permitted, but only if there's a preservation easement and rehabilitation agreement, both of which in this case are changes that are being proposed by the applicant. And then further the um the 48-month demolition uh removal of the requirement to uh not be able to submit plans for 48 months after demolition of a contributing structure of a historic structure. Um that's something that is atypical and that's actually something that's fairly unique to Apex. We received special state legislation in order to add that into our zoning ordinance. So there's a lot of communities who would love to have that standard in their ordinance.

Thank you. Any other questions? Thanks respons.

Oh, actually I have a question. Okay, so uh the Jones Street is a fairly short street, right?

Yes.

Yeah. So if this project um would you know uh uh proceed, it will allow entrance and exit on June Street, right?

That would be allowed um yes to have an entrance on Jones Street.

Okay. So with many cars, you know, um coming in or out through such a short distance, it would cause safety concern to me. Yep. Yes,

that's my question. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Anyone else? Thank you, Council Member Mood. Anyone else? Right. All right. Mr.

Carpenter. Thank you.

Good evening, mayor and members of council. Matthew Carpenter with Parker Poe, 301 Fateville Street in Raleigh. Here this evening on behalf of the applicant and property owner, Apex Baptist Church. Um we appreciate your time tonight. Uh, I've got several folks with me tonight, including lead pastor Zeb Cook, um, and Olivia Bowman, who will speak in in just a moment. And we've got a conglomerate of folks behind me in turquoise shirts who are here to support the church, um, and support the the resoning request. And so to to sum this case up in in just a sentence, it's a reasonzoning to allow the church to construct a tabletop parking deck on land it's owned since 2006 and to preserve the the existing Bailey House historic structure. Um, and so before I get into the details of the the reasoning request, I'd like to call the pastor uh and Miss Bowman up to to speak.

Thank you, Matthew. Good evening, mayor, council members. My name is Zeb Cook and I serve as the lead pastor at Apex Baptist and I'm going to perform a very small miracle here tonight because I'm going to speak for like two minutes and it's going to be awesome. Um, hey, thank you for the responsibility that you all carry uh for Apex. I I know that we have been here alongside of you um our town for 152 years and this corner has been an important corner for us at Apex Baptist Church and we think about how kind the Lord has been to us for 152 years. uh many churches, I think every church has an expiration date if you just look throughout the quarters of history. And to think about um the the staple that our church has been in this community for so many years is really a gift. And one of the things that I would say about that is no credit to anything special that man has done. We attribute that to um God and we're grateful for

that. And so as a town, you know that we have grown tremendously and maybe with all you know tides the all ships rise kind of thing, right? So, we um have experienced growth as a church. It's certainly not the preaching. I promise you that. Um our church has grown quite a bit. And we desire to faithfully serve the people who are already coming to our church and and for people who are looking for a place to belong. And so today, our property, I believe, already supports Apex's daily rhythms. Uh people stop in often for prayer. they stop in uh families will to use the restroom if they're just strolling downtown and needing a place to in the summers to cool off for a minute and maybe you use the restroom, get a drink of water, we're we're available for them to do so. Um there are many remote workers that sit in our lobby and use our facilities and we're we're grateful to have them there. There there are local businesses that use our parking. You know, we're not the type of church that chains off our parking lot. we freely and I would say joyfully allow our community to use our current lot because this is this is a way for us to show our community that we love you and we're there uh with you and we are for you. I would say further our facilities host community meetings. We have counseling there. We have rec recovery groups that meet there. Uh Pine Springs school meets there. Uh we have athletic teams that meet there. We have a longstanding priest school that has uh served our our community for quite some time. We also have a really strong Spanish ministry that uh that meets there, part of our church. We have a Korean church that meets there. And and the list truly does go on and on. In many ways, I believe that our property already functions as a shared community infrastructure. And the reason this is important is because I want us all to recognize that our capacity is limited. On busy days, parking is really challenging. Particularly thinking about the Sunday uh worship that we enjoy each

week. On more than one occasion, we have watched uh people circle our lot and drive away because they simply could not find a place to park. And listen, this may have been someone that that mustered up tons of courage uh just to get there that day. and and man, this this idea of wanting to go in and I just believe I need to. However, I can't find a spot and so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna walk away. I think about that person because maybe that was someone who was looking for help that day. Uh someone looking for hope, someone that's looking simply for a place to belong. Uh but they only they only were able to turn around because they couldn't access the building due to a lack of parking. And so as the town of Apex continues to grow and as we as a church continue to grow, we want to make room for people. This matters to us. Uh we don't want a lack of access to our building be the reason that someone does not get connected. Now I will say this just to share my heart for a moment in terms of our nearby residents. Man, I I I want to say this. I I hear their concerns. I understand that change brings about real concerns and there's a sense of safety. Um there's a sense of man aesthetically what is this thing going to look like? And and those things matter deeply to us. We're committed to thoughtful design. We're committed to responsible hours, ongoing conversations. We're prepared to add lighting where lighting is needed, cameras where cameras are needed, clear sight lines so that the structure feels secure for both those who use the structure and those who live nearby. We we want this to be a blessing to our community. We don't want it to be a burden to our community. And I would be remiss if I didn't say this. I I I I want us to be really clear that as a faith family, as a church, we stand on the truth of God's word. Here's what that means for us. We are called to live lives of both truth and grace. And so we in no way we in no way exist to withdraw from our neighbors, to withdraw from our

community. We exist to walk with them, to love them. And our purpose is steady, I believe. And our purpose is simple and that's to love our neighbors well. And that's to be a source in our community of stability, of compassion, and truly a lighthouse for this community as we have been for the past 152 years. And so respectfully, I'm asking the town council to approve this reszoning so a place that has served this community can continue to do so safely and responsibly for generations to come. And however this goes, man, I just type of person want you to hear this type of church. We we want to communicate this well, we're good. Like, however this goes, we're good. Uh because we trust in God's providence. We we trust in his hand. Um we we believe that he is good regardless of how things work out and we love you and we're for you. Uh but we do have our eye on the people that that need help, right? We have our eye on the the single moms that need a closer parking spot. We have our eye on the seniors that need uh better proximity so that they can get to our worship services and we have our eyes on those who haven't made it there yet but but need some help and need some hope as they move into our community. So, thank you so much uh for your time.

Thank you. [applause]

Good evening. My name is Olivia. Um I'm the director of communication for Apex Baptist. Um, but beyond just being a staff member, I am a church member. I've been a member of Apex for almost eight years. Um, I'm a mom. I have two young kids and every Sunday we walk several blocks to get to church so that we do free up spaces for those who are new to our church family. Um, so me and my kids, we walk the blocks or we ride a shuttle um, so that other people can have a space to park. Our [clears throat] church was founded in the same year that the town was incorporated. We've been here from the whole the whole time that Apex has been here and for the last 113 years we've been on the same corner. We have deep

roots here in Apex and we want to cons continue to serve our community. Our church is a beacon of hope welcoming our community on some of their best and worst days. From helping single moms with their power bills to counseling parents suddenly lost a child. We don't just serve our members. We truly serve our community. One of my personal favorite examples of this, of our benevolent community spirit, was during Hurricane Helen. We opened our gym to take in donations for Western North Carolina in partnership with the NC Baptist Disaster Relief. We partnered with Apex High School, Apex Friendship. We partnered with numerous schools across the town of Apex. The town of Apex employees also, we partnered with them for their drives. We worked with the Carolina Hurricanes, the Boy Scout troops, any organization or group, any neighbor could bring their don donations to us and we would get them out west. I was able to coordinate this effort and it was just an amazing time to see how as a community we did this together. We we had several tractor trailer loads and literally thousands of pounds of food, water, and supplies delivered to those in need. It was a perfect example of what we can accomplish if we work together. When interviewed on national and local television, our pastor was quick to give credit to our entire community, to Apex, not just Apex Baptist. As our town and county has seen rapid growth, so has our church. We want to help address this growth. We want to help be a part of the solution in [clears throat] a in a way that also serves our community. We're not just trying to serve Apex Baptists. We're not just trying to help the parking at Apex Baptist. We're trying to help the community. We're trying to help the restaurants that we love so much, our neighbors who have businesses, the community events that we participate in, Peakfest, the Christmas parade. Those are all times where our parking lot is utilized and we're happy to do so. And so, we're not trying to just fix an

issue for Apex Baptist Church. We're trying to fix an issue for the town of Apex. So, I appreciate you for allowing us to be here tonight to hear our request. Um, and we're I'm just grateful to be here and to have this opportunity.

Thanks, Olivia. Appreciate it. [applause]

U, thanks, Olivia. Uh, I' I'd like to just put some numbers on the demand for for parking and the growth that the church has experienced because I I do think it helps conceptualize the demand. Um, as you can see on this slide, Sunday morning attendance at Apex Baptist has doubled since 2018. And so that's only in the last 8 years. The current average Sunday attendance, which doesn't include holidays specifically, is 1,935, which comes about to about 645 people per service. Uh, you can see that Easter 2025 was all the way up to 3,566. And so that number can fluctuate a lot on holidays. Um and we added up the the number of surface spaces around the church right now and there are 203 spaces. Um as you can see there there is a heavy amount of busing, golf cart taxis going on to to keep people to get people from where they're parking um to the church. And so you can see that there's a a gap there in the parking supply that's being met through some of the busing, but also folks are just parking all over downtown. And so the goal is to move that parking on consolidate that parking onto the church campus um and help relieve some of that pressure in in downtown Apex. Um and I also want to illustrate how the the reasonzoning case specifically has changed throughout the reasonzoning process. When we started the process and filed the case in August um of last year, the church's plans were to relocate the Bailey House to another lot offsite. Um and and that would have allowed the church to build a parking

deck on the entire 1acre parcel all the way to the corner of Jones Street and Hollowman Street. Um obviously at our pre-filing neighborhood meeting, there were a lot of folks who opposed that who wanted to see the Bailey House preserved on the lot where it was originally constructed. We heard the same thing from planning staff. Um and in fact the the neighbors uh organized together and and presented us the statement which had several options presented to how we could try to meet the community in the middle. Um and we we discussed with the church option two, a variation of option two. Option two in the statement um called for the demolition of the concrete structure but for the Bailey house to remain with a parking deck behind it. Um, and so that's so we revised last fall the conditions to require the Bailey House to remain on site but to be relocated closer to Jones Street. Um, and that's in in fact the the wording that we took to planning board on February 9th. Um, and on February 9th, planning board reviewed the case and as uh Miss Bunts mentioned, recommended denial 6 to2 after a lengthy discussion. There were a few reasons for that denial. Chief among them um was the language in this condition that a relocation consultant would evaluate the structure for relocation and if it was infeasible then the condition would be satisfied. Um and understandably planning board and neighbor stakeholders were concerned that that language provided an out to the church where the church could hire a consultant and say okay we can't do it. It's infeasible. Um and so after planning board we we reconvened and we fully removed that language from the condition. Um so we didn't try to to to words it we smith it. We just removed the entire relocation consultant framework. So as the language sits today um the church only has two options. They can they can

keep the structure Bailey house where it is or they can relocate it closer to Jones Street and build a parking deck behind it. Um, and again, that's because we've added the language that the Bailey House shall not be demolished. And and that's maybe the most important aspect of this case because UDO, even though there's an incentive, a disincentive for demolition, it does allow demolition, uh, applicants just can't file a development application for for four years after that. So today, the UDO would allow demolition, but if these conditions are adopted, the Bailey House cannot be demolished under any circumstances, and the church will be required to relocate it regardless of feasibility, cost or otherwise. Um, and we did between planning board, this had been in the works for a while, but between planning board and tonight's meeting, we also had a structural engineer look at the Bailey House and determine that um that that at least initially it looked structurally good to to be relocated um if the church does do that. And so heavy changes to to this condition. You can see too, we cleaned up some of the sole discretion language. Um and and that was just again in the spirit of of trying to make this you know 100% a commitment and not something that that had a lot of outs. Um the second concern from planning board was traffic uh understandably and so we we added a condition that there will be a parking deck attendant at the property before and after Sunday services. Um we had we already had the condition said only one level of the park of parking can exit and enter on Jones Street. Um and so that was designed to filter traffic out both ways so that not one street will be overwhelmed. And so this condition was in addition to that um because we we wanted to be sure that that that peak time a before and after service is so important. there are a lot of cars leaving um and and entering in

the morning and then leaving after service. And so with this condition, there will be someone uh every Sunday there to direct traffic. That was a big concern for some of the folks that live right across from the deck. Um and I also wanted to make the point here again that the the deck isn't bringing traffic here or bringing cars here. Cars are already coming to this location. um the deck is just going to attempt to organize them in in a more more formal manner. So um we also have architectural conditions and uh this was a small change but I do think important because it was one of the reasons that staff recommended Nile at planning board was the architectural treatment of the parking structure. we had in there or other fully opaque screening um because the the deck hasn't been fully designed. And so we removed that and and said that the the deck will be brick or some other material if if only if it's approved by the planning director. And so the goal there is to give staff oversight of any architectural changes that we may propose uh to ensure that it's you know it's not in line with historic district. It's at least complimentary um to what's there. And the photo on your screen is an example of parking deck in Holly Springs. You know, some of some of the board may have visited there. I've parked in the deck. Um I think it's a good example of how a tabletop parking deck can be done right and and look cohesive and high quality with with the brick exterior. Um and we ha we do have this rendering of the the parking structure on the Apex Baptist lot. This was done before we agreed to keep the Bailey House on site. So, it it will look a little bit different than this because the Bailey House will be along Jones Street here and then the deck will be behind it. Um, but I did want to show it to give you an idea of the size and scale and and quality of of what we're proposing. Um, and also the I think one aspect that makes this different from

the Holly Springs example I just showed is the grade here um is really helpful, the existing grade of the lot because it allows the the first level of the deck to be slightly below the grade of the road. Um, and so as you can see, even though it's a two-story deck, a significant portion of the the first story will be below grade. So when you're walking down Hollowman Street, um you know, it doesn't feel so imposing. And then on Jones Street, obviously the the Bailey House will be there. And so the residential character of Jones Street will remain intact with the deck only fronting on on Hollowman. Um I wanted to put together this chart to illustrate how the case has changed from when we filed to now. And there are significant changes. And I think that's important because that's the reason the church wanted to engage in the resoning process. Um, and I think what you see before you now is a case that that's addressed we we acknowledge, you know, there are still folks that that oppose the deck, oppose the request, but we've addressed a ton of neighbor and staff concerns. Um, I won't read them all, but but you know, we we've addressed the integrity of the historic district. We've addressed things like um architectural compatibility, traffic, and and light pollution. So, there there are a lot of zoning conditions that have been carefully drafted with staff and in collaboration um with the neighborhood, including the relocation and and anti-demolition language. Um and so I think now what you've got before you is a case that's much different than what we originally filed, which would have moved the Bailey House off site. Um and and it's out of compromise, too, because we're the the church is losing uh about 40 parking spaces from the size deck that they had originally proposed until now. Uh but I think it it's worth it to to try to meet the community in the middle here. Um and we did agree uh at least conceptually to one additional condition with staff

right before this meeting. Um, part of the one of the the last dangling concerns was the rehabilitation and easement agreement. Um, and and so far our position has been that the the UDO does doesn't allow relocation of structures in the historic district. And so that's what we're proposing. And we felt that because we'll be keeping the house in the historic district that we didn't need an easement to ensure preservation because the historic district ensures that. Um, but we do acknowledge that there are conditions in the rehabilitation agreement that are important to staff. Um, and and principally of those are certain requirements uh for for construction to be done after the house is relocated. And so I have a condition here that I I can hand up. Um, but there are four additional conditions and and I'll read those just briefly. that the first says that within 6 months following the relocation, modern HVAC, electrical and plumbing systems will be operational. The second says that when within 12 months following relocation, all interior and exterior work uh needed to make the house comfort comfortably habitable shall be completed. Within 18 interior and exterior work to rehabilitate the house shall be completed. And then before the Bailey house is relocated, the owner shall provide photographs of the exterior sides to the planning department. Um, and so again, that's to th those conditions are to ensure that the church doesn't move the house and then just sort of abandon it. Um, and so we're we're happy to to sign these and add these um to the case. And then just to summarize, the the the reasonzoning is in the public interest for the the reasons that I just went through um but are called out on the right side of the screen. It's consistent with the land use map. It prevents demolition of the Bailey House. Um, it maintains the residential character of Jones Street by keeping the Bailey House on Jones Street. It alleviates the parking pressure downtown

by consolidating the church parking on the church campus. Um, and then there are several conditions that have been added to address impact to the neighborhood, including architectural conditions, lighting, access, and buffers. And so with that, we're we're happy to answer any questions and respectfully request your approval. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Carpenter. Any questions for carpet at this time?

I do. I'm just going to quickly ask clarification. I see that this says the 140 parking spots. Is that correct?

Uh

I was just wondering when you said you said that the reduction

the reduction is 40. So So we went from

What's the final number?

Yeah, let me I have that written down here. So, the original deck um was 193 spaces. After the the Bailey House condition, uh it's 147.

So, it's 46 spaces. Y

and I just as a followup to that although similar similarly worded question, um first let me say I appreciate you making those uh adding those additional conditions with regard to the Bailey House. I think that that that goes a long way. Uh when it's moved, is the plan still to have a tabletop parking structure or is it going to be just

behind the the Bailey house?

Okay. I'm having a little trouble visualizing that, but that's quite all right. [laughter]

The aerial might help on. Right. So, so it'll be moved just slightly forward and then the concrete structure will still be demolished which will will clear up some area here. And so the deck will start, you know, somewhere in in this area and then extend to the souththeast. So roughly this location.

Okay.

I wish I had a rendering like the other rendering. Yeah.

No, I get that. And that answered the next question I had, which is the the concrete structure itself still on books to be destroyed. That's right. Yep.

All right. All right. We'll go ahead and open up the public hearing for this item for comment. We'll start with um Mr. Bill Stewart. You would please come up. Bill Stewart, 1203 Blackburn Road, Apex. Uh, Mayor Gilbert, uh, Mayor Promp Mafy, council members, uh, Mr. Clerk, thank you for allowing us to share our thoughts and feelings uh, this evening. I've been a resident for Apex for 25 years along with my wife, who I think is coming right behind me next. Uh we raised three kids here, all going to Apex Public Schools. Two of my boys played soccer with the legendary coach Tide uh for the soccer team at Apex High School. We've been members of Apex Baptist Church for right at 30 years. Uh about two hours ago, I left the mediation. I'm a I'm a trial lawyer by trade, but I also am a superior court mediator. And the one thing I tell the parties when I walk in the room is you need to compromise. That is so important. You got to put yourself put the shoes on the other foot. You need to learn what are they asking for and why. And then you got to practice what I call a little give and take. And that's kind of what I've heard a little bit tonight is the give and take by the church. When both sides are willing to do that, just like this afternoon, sometimes you get the case resolved. It's not a perfect system, but it does work. I believe the proposed parking deck would not only help with the town's current parking situation, but also give the town a runway for future issues. I heard earlier that Apex, did you say the 10th

or 11th? 10th best place to live. Guess what, folks? People are coming.

They're coming. And the immediate impact that it can even have on parking is also, I think, real important to remember. We have the pigfest, pig city, pigfest, fourth of July parade, Christmas parades. There is a lot of parking. I go to a lot of these events. I can't I have to park back in the grass lot where this table top parking deck hopefully will be one day. It is needed for our community. If you're like my family, when we go downtown to eat, if there's not a parking place, we'll drive once, maybe twice. And if there's not there, we're going to Kerry. I'm sorry to admit it, or Pittsburgh or maybe even Raleigh. And that has lost business revol uh revenue and it's lost vibrancy for Apex. Similarly, when people, you've heard earlier about from uh Pastor Cook, when people come to our lots on Sunday morning, guests, firsttime guests, visitors, they just keep on going. There's no parking lots. and they're really not interested in driving three blocks away, getting their family, their kids, or their 88-year-old mom who lives with me into a shuttle bus or a or a golf cart to have to get back on M or Salem Street and then drive in the inclement weather. Uh, you know, Council Member Moo, you said something earlier about about safety. When you have over 300 members coming from that lot into there, that is a safety concern. We're willing to compromise. I hope you are. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate that, [applause]

Ronda Stewart. Three minutes, please.

Good evening, Mayor and Mayor Proim, and

all the council members. Um, I appreciate you giving us this time, but you know, change most always feels uncomfortable, [gasps] especially when it affects the community that we live in and the roads that we drive on every day. I wanted to say thank you for your thoughtful improvements you have made to Jones Street at this time. the wider streets, the sidewalks and all that allows e easier navigation and has made it safer to enjoy and it actually has enhanced the overall appearance of Jones Street. As an Apex resident and member of Apex Baptist, as Bill said, over 30 years, Jones Street has been a familiar place for our family. My children has have attended Apex Baptist Preschool, Balkam Elementary, Apex Middle, and Apex High Schools. I have been a part of hosting over through over more than eight years Apex High School events and Apex Baptist events at the CC Jones building. I have um three family members buried at the Apex Cemetery and have played with my children and continue to play with them at the and my grands at the park. Um the improvements that you have made to all of those areas have created a more inviting atmosphere for us to go visit our loved ones at the cemetery. We really appreciate that. The residents of Jones Street have also taken great pride in keeping their houses and the surroundings beautiful. There have been many changes in our community over the years that initially I didn't embrace, such as opening my street, Blackburn Road to 64. But once they were made, it has been a joy getting to know the children and the parents walking up my sidewalk, uh, going to school, and a joy getting to know the wonderful seniors from the orchards. The changes serve to grow a stronger, safer, and more connected community. Tonight, I encourage you to do the same,

to invest in our in the opportunity to add additional parking on Jones Street where residents and visitors can feel this same way to conveniently park, attend worship, and support the local restaurants and shops of downtown Apex. Thank you for your leadership, and for the vision for our community and its residents.

Thank you so much. Thank you. [applause] Next up, Roger Squires. [clears throat]

Three minutes, sir.

Hi, I'm Roger Squires. Um, I live at 207 Hollowman Street. Um, thanks for your time and appreciate you listening to me today. Definitely feel nervous. Um, a little bit anxious. Um, not my my forum public speaking. Um, I'm also in the minority. Um, and um, I just haven't been here as long as the church. So, um, I don't have any of that background to share with you all today. Um, but some of the things that were discussed today are honestly kind of disappointing. I'm right across the street from the parking lot um, that exists today. And I'm not a a fan of a parking garage being right across the street from me. There's all kinds of safety, traffic, noise, lighting, all kinds of, you know, concerns and things. But the disappointment is, I think, when the lead pastor comes and the communication director comes and talks to you. But they haven't talked to me. Nobody has talked to me. They're just putting together a plan to build this huge massive structure across the street and down the road, which is very concerning to me. I just I just don't know how to deal with that. The other thing is the the the talk about how it's needed for businesses and such. I walked here today from near the church, from my house. The parking lot was not full capacity. It's never full capacity except for on Sunday. I think there was one Wednesday right after the ice storms closed services on Sunday. That following Wednesday was packed, right? So, good job. But, um, the businesses don't need it. Um, it's not being used currently. And when I think about, you know, being voted top 10 in the nation as a place to

live, that's today. That's without the parking garage. Is a parking garage small town character? Is that how we got on to the National Register of Historic Places for this downtown district? I don't think a parking garage fits. That's not what drew me to the area. And when I moved here, I did not think that the parking garage was even like in the realm of possibility. I would have given it serious thought. It doesn't fit in that transitional area like the planning board talked about between the downtown and the residential surroundings. I want to support the church. I want them to be successful, but the church parking lot in a structure like that right across the street is very concerning to me. The other thing talking about a tabletop structure and a deck kind of even with Jones Street and the other sunken level on Hollowman Street. I'm not a civil engineer. Um, but I can tell you my experience. I can stand at the driveway where they proposed the entrance on Hollowman Street. I can look up to the corner of Jones Street. My kids would not go sledding on it. It's not happening. It's not steep enough. There's not enough elevation change. My Garmin says that it's 8t drop from the corner of Jones down to that driveway. I don't know if that's going to provide enough of a sunken basin to provide, you know, this less attrusive second deck that they're proposing for the parking deck. It's going to be a parking deck. It's going to be pretty large and it's going to be around residents and right downtown. I think the planning board called it the heart of downtown, which um which I believe it is, and I just don't think it fits. It's just not part of the the historic feel, the small town character that we call Apex and that got us voted number 10 in the nation. That's all I have.

Thank you, Mr. Clark. Appreciate you. All right, [applause] Tony Holmes. Three minutes. Yes. Good evening. Tony Holmes, 200 Frank away. Hello neighbor.

How you doing? Um, man, what a great and exciting time it is to be at Apex. We've literally got thousands of people from

all the nations coming here to this area and as you all know, you guys know especially growth comes with tons of challenges and this board on a regular basis is you know charged with solving all those different challenges and for sure solutions you come up with not everybody agrees right we never get 100% consensus and it's a very difficult job but I know there is one thing we can all agree upon and that downtown needs more parking I've been a part of the community for over 30 years. My wife's a unicorn. I She's she's beautiful. Yes. But her family's been in this community for over 100 years. Uh her her mom and her grandmother all actually wore the same number jersey for Apex Women High School basketball. It's pretty pretty cool. So, we've got a really deep history here. And as you guys know, um growth causes change. So, it's been a pleasure for me to serve in leadership at Apex Baptist over the years. And our goal is to reach people with the gospel of Christ. We preach Jesus where we're at, but we also want to serve our community. We also want to be a good neighbor to Roger. In my time, I can tell you there's been many conversations. Hey, do we stay here on this corner? Obviously, you guys know we've got some real estate issues. We can't really grow a whole lot. But time and time again over 100 plus years, our leaders have decided to stay there. And the reason why is we love this community and and we're dedicated to that corner and we're dedicated to being a great neighbor and continue to grow Apex like it is. The parking deck is another way that we want to be a great neighbor. We've always shared our spaces with the town. We've never asked for anything in return. We have a basic need on Sunday mornings, more parking. This town has a great need Monday through Saturday and that's more parking. So, as our town continues to grow, so will the challenges and so will the parking with it. It's one of the greatest places to live in America. We know that. We've heard that again tonight from our our town manager. And

just as you guys have approved changes in our downtown streets that we're seeing today. Um there's going to be more aspects of downtown that are going to have to change as time goes on. So, that's just the circumstances with growth. So, our hope is that you guys would approve this a parking deck. We're we're willing to work with you whatever we can to compromise to make this thing happen so everybody's happy and it's going to help us pursue our mission and also help the residents of the town. And don't forget, it's going to cost this town a dime. We're going to pay for it all. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. [applause]

Okay. Like to call up Ann Richard, please. and Maggie and David Jesy, Billy and Andy Pomeico.

Yes, we have a contingent of residents um who oppose and I encourage you all to come up. I would like to speak for a minute or two and then allow the residents to speak.

Do we all get our three minutes?

You get nine minutes total for your

nine minutes total. So I will try to be brief. I want to directly

we the church has been given a significant amount of time and I would wanted to request three extra minutes to specifically address statements that have already been made and then allow the residents to have the remaining nine minutes. Is is that a possibility?

Well, here's what I need to know. Are you speaking for yourself?

I can speak for myself.

You're good then.

Okay.

All right. So, you guys can hang tight right there.

Okay. So, nine minutes for you folks. Um, I want to specifically address some points that have been brought up. Mayor,

well, what what I'm saying is, are y'all together?

I want to speak for myself.

I would like to speak for myself.

Okay. So, it's three minutes a piece. We're good.

Okay.

Which I think is different than what

Yes. So, I've been involved since the beginning. I we very much appreciate the church holding these information meetings. I think for many of us it's been kind of a learning experience to

understand um what are the rights of the church how much le leverage they have on this process thinking early on that it was necessary to think of compromises because we thought we didn't have a chance in heck to try to oppose this um a couple of points the church has mentioned several people have mentioned the availability of extra parking for the town as service to the town yet they are unwilling to enter in an agreement with the town to formalize that. So the church at any point could limit the availability of that parking. Um we also believe that there is sufficient parking available during this very limited time when the church is is up to capacity with the available town parking on Sundays. We don't believe that sufficient uh attention has been given to adding additional services on Sundays. Uh utilizing the online service uh capability. There are things that the church could do to accommodate a a larger congregation which is what they wish to do. Um this idea of moving the B house towards Jones Street would one of my personal interests is trying to preserve the house for the family. And I will say something about that in a moment. But um moving that house forward towards Jones Street is not going to be supported as a historic easement by the capital area preservation. So you are losing the town is in danger of use losing yet another contributing historic acre to your historic district. And I know this is becoming more and more of a problem. The church has already expanded over the last 15 years to eliminate two to three additional historic properties. Um I my husband and I own a property on Chadam Street that is a historic property. Um so that is is not going to

contribute to your historic easement regardless of of whether it's in the UDO or not. Um finally I want to make a case for the family of Martha Bailey. The church lobbyed this family who were members of the community and the church for forever lobbyed them for years to sell that property. The daughters have have talked to me at length their their wishes of their parents and they were given verbal assurances of this that the house would remain and would be used to house missionaries or for some missionoriented purpose of the church. And the church I I believe has always thought of this acre as an expansion point. Um, finally, I simply want to say this is 4 acres now that the church occupies in your town center in the historic district and I I think it's enough. It's we're approaching a mega church with an apex.

All right, Maggie and David.

Hi, good evening. My name is McGee Ji. I'm here with my husband, David, and we live at 203 Hollowman Street. Um, Mayor Gilbert, council members, thank you very much for letting us speak tonight. Um, I wanted I need to put on my glasses. [laughter] Um, so we are directly across the street from the current parking lot of Apex Baptist Church. For the past two and a half years, we've been renovating and restoring our home. [snorts] Um, this parking deck not only is an eyesore, but it does not stay in accordance with the small town character inlay. It also poses a great safety concern. Neither Hollowman nor Jones Street were built to handle the type of traffic that 140 extra parking spaces would add to the area. While renovating our home, we ran into several cap issues. While some of them delayed our build significantly or cost quite a bit more than we had planned on spending, we complied because we believed in maintaining the integrity of this historic district district. Many of our

neighbors have aruously maintained their homes to similar standards in order to uphold the same integrity. We would hope that the church would be held to the same standards as the homeowners in this little district of ours. I know several of you ran on the platform of responsible growth and maintaining small town character. This parking debt does not align with your platform. Some have mentioned that with the parking issues in downtown Apex, this is a good option for the church to foot the bill for the town and provide additional parking for patrons of downtown. However, at whose expense are we talking about downtown Apex or are we talking about our small historic district? It is at our expense. It's at the expense of the homeowners that live around this. [snorts] Our neighborhood will be disrupted with traffic infringing the church ch the church taking over this little pocket of our downtown. It is also my understanding that Apex Baptist has already well she spoke of the Baptist church taking down their historical homes. I want to know when does it stop? At what point do we say no more? I implore you to vote for the people, the people that you represent, the people that have voted you into office to help us in maintaining our daily lives and not that of a church's want for one day a week. Much like my husband did with the planning board, I invite each and every one of you to my front porch. You may come and sit there any day of the week, not only the days that the parking lot is empty to see how it is not being used by downtown businesses, but also on the busy days to see that both directions of Hollowman Street are so packed that I can't leave Hudson Street to exit my house. So, in addition to seeing how empty it is and how busy it is in both ways, [snorts] um I lost my place on my paper. [laughter] There's plenty of parking around here to

accommodate for an hour or two on a Sunday. They can shuttle for the great new from the great new Saunders Street parking lot that you all have created.

Please.

Oh, thank you so much. All right, [applause] Billy and Andy.

Hi, Billy Pomeico. 223 West Cadam Street. We're at the corner of West Cadam and Jones Street, my wife and I. And um I'm opposed to this resoning request, but I do want to say that we are we are proponents of the church. We want to see it grow. We want to see it prosper. um during the Brock the Block party. I've eaten my weight and chicken wings and my we have two daughters, one of which goes to the Baptist preschool. So, we are absolutely in favor of this church's continued growth and prosperity. We want to see it succeed. With that said, I do just want to um throw my weight behind the concerns around the traffic that we're going to experience on Jones Street specifically. There will clearly, if we're being honest, be a marketked increase in the amount of traffic that comes out of that parking deck onto Jones Street, which is already a problem for us on Sundays. My wife will articulate that better than I can. But, um, right now on our section of West Chadam Street, there was a traffic study done by Apex that will not allow any new driveways onto West Chadam because the traffic is already so bad. And so now we're talking about additional traffic onto a tiny side street which the council woman was astute to question how much traffic was going to be added because now that's all coming onto Jones Street and dumping out onto West Chadam Street. So major traffic concerns and I also just want to um add to the concerns about the UDO and the small town small town character overlay district that we live in. We did an addition on our house. Apex wanted to know down to the paint color what we were going to do. And so I feel like this parking deck, no matter how much

landscaping, no matter what the facade looks like, is absolutely going to run contrary to the spirit of the small town character overlay and that's not acceptable. We all the UDO is this thick. There are rules upon rules upon rules. We're doing our part to preserve the character of downtown. This is going to run absolutely contrary to that. So I would ask that you oppose this resoning request. Thank you. [applause]

Hey everyone, sorry for the emotion. Um, this is getting more and more personal as this goes on. I'm going to try to keep that in check. Um, as my husband said, he gave me too much credit. I don't think I'm going to articulate very well. We have two small children. Some of you know my children. You see them walking around town. They enjoy our small town and the community that we have. We love it. I don't mind that we don't go for a walk around the block on Sundays because of the traffic. I'm okay with giving giving up that sacrifice. I am okay not going to the park on Sunday mornings because of the traffic and how I could enter the park entrance on Hollowin because there is no sidewalk and I come with a stroller and I will not go down that road by myself with that stroller and those two small children. I'm okay giving up those things. What I'm not okay giving up is my sidewalk that the town has built on Jones to create a safe place for pedestrians and my children to play. And that is where we do play on Sunday mornings because we don't go to the park and we don't round the block. And that is where we go on our on our scooters and our bikes and we're out there with chalk. and a parking attendant there on Sunday mornings for one hour or two hours at at opening and closing of church times is not going to be there every day that now this parking deck has is going to have an exit onto our residential side street. We are on a small street. There are three houses long. This the street is three houses long. It is not made for traffic. There is no center line. It was not made for

this type of traffic that now we are going to be flooding into this street. As my husband said, my daughter goes to preschool at the church. We are supporters of the church. We've had a wonderful experience. If there were not alternatives to this, I might feel differently. But I do feel that there are reasonable alternatives here for the church to explore for their expansion. There are there are needs for them to expand. I don't think a parking deck is the only one and I would appreciate some other considerations here for them to explore. Thank you for your time.

Thanks for speaking. [applause]

Cooper,

Donna Hbert,

thank you for your time. Um, this is going to be my 20th year living on Jones Street directly across from the Bailey House. So, I can sit on my front porch and look at that house. Um, my house has been there for almost as long as the church building 2128 for sure. It's on the Sanboard fire map and I do appreciate the compromises the church has made, especially in regards to that historic house, but I still feel called to oppose the resoning of that property. Um, we've talked about the uh parking deck, the master plan and parking study that concluded that the planning for curtain current and future needs is really an essential role of government, not the church responsibility. I believe [clears throat] that um downtown businesses were solicited since February 9th to bring their support in favor of the deck. But at the planning meeting on the 9th, Mr. Carpenter also said the church would not be entering into a written contract with the town to provide access to the deck so they could close it at any time. So, you know, besides personal reasons of spoiled view and my decreasing property values, which is pretty it's a pretty big withdrawal, uh my concern remains the traffic as Andrea has said.

Um short road, 70 cars from there, Mr. Carpenter said it's not going to bring more traffic to those roads. 140 spaces right there is going to bring traffic to those roads. That's all there is to it. [clears throat] As Andrea said, we have elderly residents, young children visiting and uh grandchildren living visiting and grand live uh children living there. Lots of foot traffic from people coming from down Chattam Street to go to the playground, Jones Swim Club in the summer. Um, I'd like to conclude that, you know, Apex expanded the historic district since I moved here in 2006, being a part of the small town character overlay and historic district should provide production protection from building of a parking deck on a residential street. Uh, I ask that you please examine and honor the reasons that the town expanded that historic district at that time and keep the zoning as it currently stands. Thank you.

Thank you, [applause] Karen Cooper. I may be the last one.

Is there Karen Cooper here?

Signed up to speak.

Okay.

Sign I signed up.

All right. Yeah, you're you're next. Um Laura Grimes, come on up.

I'll take them.

How many copies do you have?

I think I have Okay,

thank you.

I want to give you some data whenever he has a chance to pass these out.

I've [clears throat] started your time.

Pardon?

I've started your time. You're good to go.

Yeah, but they need the pictures.

Okay. Um, I want to give you some data to make you think about

this second line on your uh screen there, it says average attendance per service. They're 3 in the morning, 9:15. Um I think it's 9:00, 10:15, and 11:30 are when the services start and 645 people per per service. Um, there are I counted them over 900 parking spaces within one block of the Apex Baptist Church. I believe 900 spaces can take care of that many people per service. And I would like to talk to you about one area in particular. The Baptist church uses the East Moore extension. You have provided the answer to this problem already. The church has been in mediation of having more parking for several years. But this year is when you provided the answer. Okay. Um and the first picture here is of your South Saunders Street parking lot. It's advanced into the lot. There are 392 spaces on this lot. And what we're looking at here is on the far left of that lot. And there's a little outtake that has about 50 spaces in it. That's that's to your left. There are 10 rows of spaces on that lot. Each of them having about 30 spaces for cars. So that's about 300. And you've got about 50 here. Then you have about 18 that you can park as you drive into the parking lot. And then you've got handicap parking on the far

right. So total 392 spaces. I'd like to show you pictures of it. The first one is again that far left. You back up a few rows [clears throat] and go over just a little bit and you can see that most of the spaces are empty. This these photographs were taken on Sunday morning at 11:30 when when we're getting ready for the final church service. Okay. Very few spaces there. Move over a little bit more. And again, you've got a few cars parked here, but not many. And then finally, uh, you see ch cars along, uh, the back of, uh, Salem Street and right at the front of, uh, cylinders.

So, anyway, I want you to know that there's plenty of parking. This was taken right at Christmas.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Okay.

All right.

All right. Last speaker signed up is Michael Caners. Save the best for last, right? Um, thank you, mayor. Thank you, council members, for giving us this opportunity. My name is Michael Caners. I live at 309 West Chattam Street with my wife, Colleen. Um, we moved there for a reason. um because of the downtown character, because of the historic district. We've lived in in in the area for some time, but it was always our plan to move downtown, and it was because of what the downtown character offers. Um the historic district UDO was created for a reason. Um and what the Baptist Church, while I support what they're doing, we walk past the church all the time. They're good neighbors. But what's being proposed is a change to that UDO. And as planning council has has outlined, um it it's going to

implicate the fabric of of the intent of that historic district. Uh you've had recommendations from planning staff to deny this change. You've had uh vote from the planning council to deny it. You've heard from neighbors that it's going to negatively impact um our environment that we bought in the downtown. You've heard that there is ample parking already. Saunders Street lot is opened. Um there is plenty of opportunity for people to park uh in a very close proximity to it. I've also heard and I respect the notion that um people that are not able-bodied um have difficulty getting to church and want to be able to park close. Then maybe there's a promotion the church could do to encourage those that are able-bodied to park further away and take the shuttle to leave those spaces available for those individuals. Um, the parking demand and impact on downtown Apex that was also mentioned has not been validated. I drive by um, every day, most times two or three times a day, the digital signs that have been put up around Apex that show the availability of parking. I don't think I've ever seen a time when all of those spaces have been full. So, we have plenty of parking in downtown Apex.

That's it. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, sir.

[applause]

I want to apologize I didn't miss one on this side right here.

Hi Jana Estus 2113 Peabody Place. I have lived in Apex for 46 years except for one year when I lived in China. Um and I'm raising five kids here. Uh there's places here that I've loved since I was a little girl and I haven't owned any of them. fields, creeks, trees, and this one spot where you can see all the way to Jordan Lake. Um, and like many here, I have said goodbye to all of these places in order to accommodate the new population. I have said goodbye to land

that has been in my family for 150 years, acres of pasture, horse barns, homesteads that were built in the 1800s where my great-grandmother was born. All of it taken under imminent domain to build 540. [sighs and gasps] I admit that Apex needed 540, but that doesn't negate the heartbreaking loss I have every time I drive over the Apex barbecue road that goes over where my family's land used to be and is no longer there. But I have to admit, there's not many of my favorite places left here in Apex. But there is one, and that's Apex Baptist Church. I grew up attending that church and ever since I got my driver's license, I have been asked to park far away from the campus to leave spaces open. I remember renovations, building campaigns in order to accommodate the ever growing constant need for space. Multiple service were added. I was asked to come to later services, unpopular times. I even remember being asked along with hundreds of other members to go to Apex Friendship High School for four years to allow room at the downtown campus. Accommodating growth is not a new issue that our tr our church has struggled with. It's a decadesl long issue. All these solutions we have tried for years. The proposed parking structure does help us to protect a heritage that this church has been built on since 1873. Its location is a historical spot, but it also is a historical service that has served this town for 152 years. For years, every week, thousands of residents have come to that location. And you're welcome to come, too. As you enter, someone will probably say, "Hey, let me help you find a seat. I'm sure we can find room for you." And I think that's probably why I love it. Thank you.

Thank you for speaking tonight. THANK YOU.

[applause]

THAT WAS THE LAST SPEAKER. SO, UM, public hearing is closed for this comments for this item. It's back now for discussion with council. I just have one question. So, Mr. Carpenter, the conditions, were they discussed with staff prior to coming in? Okay.

The new conditions that you just thought Yes, they were actually drafted by staff.

Okay. Thanks. Just want to make sure that correctly.

Who wants to step up

for planning um to your

uh or to perhaps this is an addendum to your question, Mayor Gilbert. Um with those concessions, what is planning board's recommendation? Planning staff's recommendation has not changed.

Thank you. Sorry, I meant planning staff. Yes. Thank you.

Yes. You're welcome. And

mayor, if I may, I noticed that um the president of Cavalier Preservation is in the room and he wrote us a letter. Um I'd like to hear kind of him speak to it was brought up a couple times. Would it be okay to call up?

Absolutely.

Uh Gary to to talk about the latest conditions and the impact on the historical

Sure.

Uh overlay district wouldn't mind, sir. Absolutely. Come on up. [clears throat]

Thank you. Uh I had not prepared uh any remarks. I had not prepared any remarks, but I did write you a letter and I spoke about the Eastman situation. Uh here's what I think. I think a lot of people spoke and and there's there's points on both sides, but I think the important thing is you have valued the historic district and you have layered onto that the the small town character overlay and um you all did that for a reason and um because this is a very important part and it's important part of the essence

of Apex. Just as much as we've heard about the church, these communities are are all these that this community is also a very important part. I I want you to understand one thing if I may, and that is that we've talked about, well, we're going to preserve the house, and we're we're going to knock down one building, but we're going to preserve the house, and we're going to build this in the back, and we're it's going to be way back and all that. This is not preservation. And you may not make your judgment on the basis of preservation, but you should know what preservation is. When this site was put on the National Register, it was because the entirety of the site, it was because of the house, the second house, and the open space that was behind it. When you tear down one of those houses, and I've not evaluated either house, I have to tell you, I've not been invited to look at the houses. I've not seen them. But when you tear down that one house and you move the other house to a different location on the lot where it was never intended to be and then you build and you've seen the pictures this parking garage in the back is a pretty visible thing. You have entirely changed the setting for which this has been on the on listed on the national register. Now a lot of people have said it and it's a true point. There's some comments about we had to listen to CAP when we did our house and that's true. We consult with the town and we've been invited to look at a lot of these properties when people suggest I want to add this. I want to do this. I want to do the other thing. And we said, well, no, that that would radically change the property. And what they've done in many cases is they said, okay, well, what can we do? What should we do? How can we preserve the character and perhaps get something that we want? And we work with those people. This is completely different. Those people have been told what they have to do. This completely different where at one unit gets an exception from what all the other people are required to do. It's a real equity issue, I think. But I just want you to know that when you talk about these solutions, they really

aren't preservation. And I said that with all due respect, and everyone can make their own choices about that, but they really aren't preservation. And so if you think, well, you know, they're saving the house. They're only knocking down one house and they're going to put this in the back. And I think it's okay. You just It's not okay. It's And it's the reason that you created the overlay in the first place to protect this neighborhood so that it can be a part. See, I don't live there, but I can walk through there and I can appreciate what you've done because it exists. It's there. And that's why it was listed on the National Register. And that's why you applied the overlay. So I think um and why I said I'll say one more thing. What I said to you about the easement is we would not accept an easement in this situation because an and I I have to say I chuckled when I first saw the churches submitted their conditions and said no easement with capital preservation they knew what they were doing because if they had put an easement from with capital air preservation they would not be allowed to do what they're doing. That's as simple as f. So, I mean, I think I think they know what an easement is. I just hope everybody else does. And that's why there's no place for an easement in this situation unless this plan is radically changed. There's no place for an easement because we can't put an easement that essentially blesses what's happening. It's not because it's not preservation. So, I don't know. I hope that answers your question.

Actually, I have a point. I have one question for you. [applause]

I'm sorry. I'm glad that you're here because I was going to ask this question to staff and also to Mr. Carpenter, but how much coordination did you have in this entire process? Did they reach out? Did you provide approval?

There was a meeting very early on um and in that meeting uh we came up with a potential solution and I and I thought when I left that meeting that the church and CAB and the town all agreed to it and the planning director summarized the results of that and sent that out. was never responded to and we never really

heard another word. So, um, and as I say, I can understand why they don't want an easement because it just wouldn't allow what they're doing. So,

thank you.

Good [laughter] discussion. [clears throat]

All right, I'll start. Um so first I want to acknowledge the role and the importance of Apex Baptist Church in in our community. Uh it's it's been a fixture is a fixture in our downtown and it's you know clearly serves um many of our our residents. Uh I don't want to take anything away from that. I also appreciate the um changing of conditions in response to some of the neighborhood feedback uh and some of the feedback that uh you know more received from uh from the planning um uh planning board. Um I think the the piece that I'm stuck on is, you know, is is this the the right place right in our town for a structure of this kind? Um, and I don't believe it is. Um, I think you know to um the the remarks that were made uh before uh this is part of our historic uh district, right? And this is a part of of our heritage that, you know, we've been trying to shrink wrap and and and protect, you know, for for many years. And I think that this will alter the phase of of you know our town if if we allow this to move forward. So keeping that in mind uh again appreciating the role of the church and and then everything that you guys do for our community. Uh I have to respectively uh disagree with with the request.

I concur. I I'll say um there's been a lot of discussion tonight from members on both sides about the need for the

parking whether it's really there. I'll just say personally to me that's not really the issue. If the property owner believes they need more parking and they want to spend a million plus more to build it I believe them they want to get more parking that's fine. The issue is can you build parking in this location? Does our UDO allow it? It plainly doesn't. So what's is there a justification or a rationale to modifying the UDO? Because my concern is if we you know someone the small town character overlay district if we just say okay well go ahead and do it then we effectively don't have a small town character overlay district anymore either we do or we don't and the justification for varying from it um I think needs to be stronger than well we just want to do it you know there has to be a really really good reason but because it's probably going to apply to every other person in the district who also wants to vary it. So, if this small town character overlay district, uh, if this is something we value as a town, I think we do, if this is something that we want to keep going and and I do, then I I don't think we can approve this project. And speaking to CAP, um, Apex puts a lot of faith in the expertise of Capital Area Preservation and working with historic homes around town. Um, I trust them in their judgment. And one of the things I said early on this project to the applicants was, "Well, okay, if you can get their sign off, then we can think about it, you know." um that didn't occur in this case. So that they I consider the experts on what type of preservation is appropriate, what kind of modifications can be made, where the negotiation is. I don't consider myself an expert. I just care about this district and protecting uh the core nature of downtown. Thank you.

I'll speak to the um issue in a forthright way. I am so grateful to have Apex Baptist Church downtown. I'm also so appreciative when we have parking installed in our downtown. This seems inongruent with the adjacent properties, but more

so for me based off of our um history developing the downtown plan and parking study. Many of us were intimately involved in that project. Part of what we built um an additional 152 spaces that brings the Saunders lot to 400 spaces nearly 400. It's 392 was in response to some of our neighbors downtown. It was the businesses. It was the church. And it was in the spirit of collaboration and appreciation for the church's generosity when it's um in terms of the informal agreement. Um and I'm not even going to push on that. I I understand maybe there's some, you know, about signing something, but I've really appreciated the uh uh the gentle person's handshake of collaboration downtown where the friction comes for me is when I reflect back on our again, it was the APE, it was the uh Apex downtown master plan and parking study. The parking study was the back half of what we were doing. And my goodness, there was a lot of spirited debate with folks. Um, I respect and appreciate their opinions and we would have uh uh different views. There are many faces I recognize in the room today who might be disappointed in me not supporting this. It is not me not supporting the church. Is not me support not supporting additional parking. It is the parking deck in this location to me seems in congruent especially when we have um I believe yeah I mean 73 at Eastmore 392 at Saunders um and I just encourage

the church to explore additional ways to accomplish your goals. I understand. I understand you've got people especially when you've got folks who um walking is an issue. I understand that. I'm just wondering if there's ways to encourage those who are able-bodied to utilize as I've already lost it already put it away. The photos of this lot. And I know it's far away, but that was part of what we were doing. I mean, if you pull up the top 10 priorities, um, and God bless Shannon Cox for her patience with me as we pushed for that wording in there where it talks about uh, and I can't pull it up fast enough. It's uh, 300 new spots within five minutes and then it was like 200 within a three minute walk. And it was because we were concerned about the con of uh you know the moms pushing the strollers. These are issues I I I know this is not um there's a lot of people who are going to be unhappy this evening. I encourage you to um revisit this and let's consider what we can do to um best meet the needs of your um of the folks who are visiting your church. I will not be supporting the res.

Okay.

I think the part that I think is interesting you you I I defer to you.

Okay. Um it's um such a tough decision. I feel the need that um the church is growing and the church it's good um intention to build a parking deck for everyone not only the church goers right

only for also for the business the you know uh residents I admire that I also um want to thank the church always open rooms for the people in need. Um, it's tough, but I also hear all other arguments. It makes sense. First, the historic uh preservation is important to our town. If we make like a exception or we allow this we allow it to be moved this time it's unfair to others before or later we won't allow right second is I think the surrounding area you know the surrounding streets are not big enough the neighborhoods live closely to that area going to be affected ed um you know hugely their lives, their um safety and their activities. So I'm I'm sorry I have to say no. I wish it can, you know, it can we can have a better solution if we can find another way to address both, you know, the residents concerns and the church's need to expand the parking. It's tough. Thank you. I think what you're getting an opportunity to see here is this is one of those difficult decisions that unfortunately or fortunately falls upon council to make these sort of decisions. And you know when we look at Apex Baptist Church I mean they have been a well and faithful steward to this community for over a century. And and that's

that's something you can't you you can't take that away. the the things that they have done for the community to support the community, to care for the community, the pastor for the community. These are all incredibly important things. And I I reflect back to uh what Rhonda said during her comments, which is change is hard. I I think she absolutely nailed it. And if there's a sentiment that all of us can agree on, yeah, change is hard and hearing about change is even harder. And I I fully recognize and can appreciate the position um that all of the neighbors are in when they hear about a structure of that type coming in. I do think though that as we start to take a look at the larger aspects, it doesn't take away from the good or the valuable spirit that the church has added to the community. And I think I I'm very appreciative of the fact that we have seen compromise from from from the applicant. I I think that is absolutely the way that this should always go. There should always be some give that's going to take place. And I've I've seen also from the neighbor standpoint, you know, particularly at planning board, hearing those conversations and hearing how they, you know, make their sacrifices on Sundays, knowing that they are want to be as supportive of the church as a whole as well. As I look at this, I tend to find myself much more echoing some of the comments that Roger made during his statements, which is we have made a priority as a town to look at historic preservation and maintaining that small town character feel within this specific geographic area. Uh, when I paint my house, I live in Buckingham. I only have to deal with an

HOA. I don't have to deal with the town to figure out whether or not I've got the right colors and things of that nature. And we put that special burden on the folks who live within this area because we want to maintain a certain feel, look, tone, and demeanor. And that's a preservation and a protection factor. It preserves our history. It protects the structures that are there. It protects Apex Baptist Church and the other structures that are there. So when I look at this on balance, it's a difficult balance. And you heard the difficulty that we all have here, which is who wants to be the person that's going to say yes, we're saying no to the church. I know my pastor over at Watts is not going to be happy after he hears what I'm saying, but he'll at least understand. But that's what I think will be ultimately the resolution of all of this. I feel like as it's currently proposed, the way it currently looks, I don't think it's the right fit. I don't think it's the right feel. I've not been a supporter of of of a tabletop or however you want to call a parking deck downtown. just not something that I've seen as being overall conducive to the character that we're trying to make sure we're maintaining. But with that said, I do think that it's important to remember that this isn't a no to the church and it isn't a no permanently. I think it's a no as to how it's proposed. And I do encourage both sides to come together as I know you will to talk about and come to how do you solve this larger problem whether it's utilizing a lot of the spots that we have at Saunders Street or whether there's other ways that you know even us as a town can help alleviate the problem. The church has been a great resource for the entire community and I don't think the nature of this vote

isn't a reflection of our feelings of the value that the church has added. I do think it's a more of a reflection of the concept of we have to we created a district in a certain way. We did it to make sure that we are protecting a certain atmosphere and if we don't continue to protect and fight for it, we are ultimately sliding back on that. So with that as a little bit of insight into my thinking and not speaking on behalf of my colleagues, but a little bit of a reflection on why you see such consternation up here. Um I will vote in opposition of the resoning petition. um and encourage all the parties to come together in the spirit and see how we can ultimately still solve the problem down the road.

It's a really tough and hard no to this. Yes. Like Ed said, I wish you know you both sides can work something out. Yes,

it is tough. Um, I look out and I see family here, family there, and uh, we want what's best for Apex. And, uh, it's I knew coming into this meeting, it was going to be a a tough thing. I can I can hear in the voice of all my colleagues like this is tough for all of us. Um, what I'll say is this. Um, as we look out to the future, we are going to need more parking. I mean, that's clear. And, and don't want to compromise the quality of life for any of our neighbors, but we are going to need it. And, uh, I would like to see us look at building for the future um at some point. So I think as as as council gray said, I mean I wish there was a possibility like we could work this out. I mean I don't know what that looks like, but I want to go back to you because it's now back on you. Is there any um recommendations on your part as far as

Well, I think the the church feels like

that that's what been happening throughout the the reasoning process and and really um there's not much more room for compromise. If if the house is left in place where it is, there's there's really no no parking deck. So, um this is this is the result of six to eight months of of stakeholder feedback changes. And so, this is this is really it. But thanks, May I make a motion [clears throat] to deny?

I'll second.

All right, we have a motion to deny and second Ziggerman. Any other discussion?

All right, call for the vote. All in favor say I.

I oppose. All right. Motion to deny. Carry. Thank you all so much. All right. All right. We're going to take a 10-minute recess. Thank you.

It's really tough. Okay. 10 minutes. Four years of

Not that bad. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Thanks.

We are live. Okay. All right. All right. We're back in session. We'll move now to a public hearing for unified development ordinance studio amendments. Bruce Vinnable. Good to see you, sir.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Town Council. Uh this is a continued item from your February 10th meeting. This is for the temporary turnaround amendments that we brought before you before. Um, at that meeting you gave us direction that you would like to see these temporary turnarounds and easements outside of the buffer area completely. So that is what we're bringing to you today. I'll run through these changes for you and if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them.

So firstly, there's some uh add in red. You'll see those are the changes that were made uh working with legal and our traffic infrastructure department. We just they were asked that we rename this and add the wording and construction to wherever the temporary public access easement is. This is now it's a temporary public access easement and construction easement. Under item number four, we have struck through that the land that there will be replacement of the landscaping of the appropriate buffer type. Um we've struck that through. Now only what will be required to be replaced is the adjacent anything adjacent to the roadway extension which will include um construction of any improvements required for the UDO through street extensions and including any roadway cross-section, sidewalks and utilities. We've added another number here to the bottom called buffer and landscaping restrictions just outright outlining that temporary turnarounds and any associated easements shall be shall not be permitted within the within the buffer at all and they'll be located outside of it as established by the ordinance. Again, in the new section 7.2.4, before uh we've added the language for the construction ement and we've also added again that these all these portions will be outside of the the buffers and any other areas that are required. They shall not encroach into them. And originally there was a section that was amended in chapter 8 that allowed for the public access easements to encroach into the buffer. Since we're not allowing that at all, that entire section has been removed at this time.

So those are all the changes. If you have any questions, uh planning is here and also uh engineering as well. Thank you, sir.

Yes, sir.

All right. Any questions from Mr.

Appreciate staff taking uh the feedback and making these changes.

Okay.

All right. We'll open up for comment. No one signed up to speak. Public hearing is closed.

Motion to approve.

I'm sorry.

Come on up. Come on up.

Continuation. So, I didn't sign up for the public hearing. You mind if I have a quick word?

Sure. Come on up.

Sure. Sorry.

That's okay. Come on. [clears throat]

Sign up.

I'll sign up afterwards.

I apologize, guys. Uh Jeff Roach Peak Engineering Design. I'll be quick. It's a late night. I know. Um I I feel kind of bad because Chris and I and and you know, Bruce and everybody worked hard on trying to trying to craft this language. We really appreciate you guys adding the hammerhead detail, but I think pulling it back out of the buffer completely changes the location of this. It's starting to pull these culde-sacs down farther into the subdivision. it's going to impact at least four lots and any new developments that you guys deal with depending on the width of the buffer uh just based upon that detail. So, the current detail allows the construction of those temporary turnarounds up into the buffer because we know they're going to be cleared when the next development next door develops. Um I just want to point that out. Um you know, I appreciate staff working and kind of looping me in on this because we see a ton of these here in town. Um especially with all the new developments coming that you guys see all the time. So, it's just kind of a hard thing for us to design around and it it I don't I'm not sure it really picks up a lot of a lot of benefits, especially we can come back and supplement some of these buffers adjacent to rightaway or easements. Um, I do like that Chris has shown the new detail. I really appreciate that showing it in easement versus rightaway. Now, we don't impact these property owners when we come back in 5 years or 10 years and remove these temporary turnarounds. So, guys, I appreciate it. That's just my two cents. So, appreciate guys.

Thank you.

All right. Close now. Motion to approve.

Motion. Mathy.

Second.

Second. [laughter] Z. All right. Give somebody else a chance sometimes, you know.

All right. All in favor say I.

I.

All right. Motion carries.

All right. Move now to uh

give me a signal.

Oh yeah.

So we are I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. So the option listed can we get clarity on that?

Yeah. Uh so this option uh regards uh a motion for potential restructure of the committees that I had presented a few times over the past month. Got bumped from the last meeting of this meeting. before this meeting uh hear some feedback from uh from the mayor and from some other members that they wished uh desired for some more uh discussion at a work session was what I heard. So uh the clerk gave us a potential set of motions um in response to the desire to go to a work session. I had asked um yes I had asked then I made the observation of my colleagues that were quickly going through budget season and I'm concerned that the committees aren't operating uh with oversight of the budget as they usually do. So I requested support uh in addition to the motion to defer this for a motion to appoint an ad hoc budget committee and that's on option B. and this budget committee the the members are myself and council member Gray and that's because we were last year's budget committee and I'm proposing essentially to extend the charter of that committee to cover this year until uh the resolution changes. So that's the discussion that's how we got here and I'm uh prepared to move forward and make the motions if there are no other questions or comments.

Okay. All right. So your your option your motion will be B. Okay. Very well.

I you had a time or you [laughter] You had three minutes, man.

Practice, right?

No, I do appreciate this. I know there's been a lot of discussion, you know, back and forth and I and I do want to thank Council Member Moo for the recommendation for a work session

because I believe we can get there uh if we all in the same room. So, I'm really excited and we're going to move forward. We're going to trigger it out. So, I thank you for for that.

All right. So, uh I'll

unless there's any other comments. Yeah, just looking around. Great. Uh, so I'll start with a motion to appoint an ad hoc finance committee to provide input and oversight over the annual operating budget for the next fiscal year 2627 with an end date of June 30th, 2026 or until the council company structure is resolved.

All right, we have a motion.

Second.

Second. All right, any other discussion?

All right, hearing none, we'll do it at work session. All in favor say I.

Post. All right, motion carries. And then motion to appoint former finance committee members, Mayor Prom, Chair Mafy, Council Member Gray to the ATC finance committee effect immediately and until the council structure is resolved.

All right, motion

approve. [laughter]

Yes, second.

All right, we got a motion second. Any other discussion on that?

All right, it's getting late. All in favor say I.

I post. All right, motion carries.

And then finally, I [snorts] [laughter] And then motion to delay the council the town council committee structure discussion until the town council work session on April 21st.

Okay. All right. There's a motion.

Second.

Second. Ziggman. All in favor say I.

I. All right. We're good.

All right.

All right. Good. All right.

All right. Moving on.

Motion to go into close session.

Motion go to close session. Gray.

Second. Ziggman. All in favor say I. I. Oppos. Motion carries. Moving into close session. Thank you officer for being here. Thank you for your service, sir.

[laughter]

Okay.

All right. Any any further business?

Hearing none.

No.

Meetings are ajourned. Y'all have a great night.

go out and watch the