Town Council

Good evening. I call together us for a work session of the Morrisville Town Council August 27th, 2026. We have three items that we're going to be speaking about tonight. The first is data centers, then key to the town, and then our town council roundt. At this time, I'd like to recognize Deputy Town Manager Jel Rodriguez to uh introduce our presenters for the first item. Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor, and good evening uh council. So, I am pleased to introduce this evening to you uh the topic of data center state and regional overview. This topic is very timely as we have seen. There's a lot of um excitement about this particular topic is significant for for our community and for the region as well as data centers continue to ch shape the um economic development infrastructure planning policy decisions all across North Carolina and across the nation as well. So tonight we are fortunate to have to I want to say to experts because they have been doing so much work in this topical in this topic. Um and we have with us Grace Berry, management analyst, and Alana Keegan, a local government services director with the Central Pines um regional council. And they have been doing some work uh particularly related to data centers across the region and working with um multiple municipalities. And we felt that this was the right time for us to uh as we have heard the topic around us. We haven't had a topic as a group and we felt it was the opportunity for us to bring you a highlevel uh information about the topic and then we can decide what's next right where do we go from here? Do we need to talk about this a little more? But the intent for tonight is to provide you a high level um information that can allow you to ask questions and be able to uh to define any additional information that we may need and at the same time it will help you be uh plugged in to what the work that is happening in the region and

specifically the work that Central Pines has been doing with others. So with without further ado I would like to turn it over to uh Grace and Elena and they will guide you through the conversation. Thank you.

Thank you. Good evening. It's great to be with you all. Um as Jazelle said, I'm Elena Keegan. the government services director and I'm just going to provide a little bit of an introduction into how we started talking about this work um and then turn it over to Grace who's um started with us as a lead forc fellow if you'd had any interaction with that program and little did she know that she would become a data center expert [laughter] and in a fellowship program and now she's a full-time staff member with us. Um so this uh work started about a year ago for our organization. We started hearing both from management level staff and from planning staff looking for resources on data centers and that's spanned a wide range of information resources, water resources, zoning resources, just best practices that we could find. And so um we heard about it enough that we decided to start putting some time into this topic. And um tonight we're going to just share some things that we've been doing to track on this topic and some resources that we've been compiling on your behalf. And we're always happy to hear other ideas of ways we can be helpful or if there's questions that we can answer um about this topic. We're more than happy to do that. So with that, I will turn it over to Grace to start walking through some overview materials that we have.

Awesome. I want to make sure I'm not talking too loud. So, hope you guys are doing well. Oh no, I might have messed it up. Trying to see where there we go. Awesome. So, in front of you here, you can see a regional snapshot. I know the text is a little bit small, so I'm going to go through

these. And so at the top you can see a legend that we've created where that dark orange is going to be a moratorum has been enacted. That navy will be reviewing. The yellow will be an ordinance update and then the gray will be no formal action. And so you can see obviously a lot of moratoriums have been enacted. You're probably aware of these just staying in the no. But Chattam County has a one-year pulse through February 2027. We can see Orange County with a one-year pause through April 21st, 2027. And then Hillsboro had an initial twomonth moratoria and they decided to actually extend that all the way until May 2027, which seems to be a a preferable date. Um, and then city of Durham, uh, 60-day moratorum extended through May 2027. Then the most recent update is Durham County. They actually have a moratorum now that was enacted and so it's no longer an ordinance update. They have a 9-month moratorum on new largecale data centers also through May 2027. And then for Wake County and the town of Kerry, they're still in that reviewing process. Apex, Windowell, Holly Springs have one-year moratoriums. And then Johnston County, no formal action. Lee County and Sanford, they added data data center specifics to their UDO. And then with more county, also no formal action. and then rounding it out with you all with an ordinance update um amended in 2025 to allow data centers in different zoning districts with the approval of a special use permit. I'll just add on this chart. So Durham County, this happened this week. Um that's you may have seen that in the news and Lee County and Sanford are one

of the few that has actually amended really recently. So that's the the one example that we've seen where they've not chosen to move into a moratorium and they've actually moved ahead with um updating their ordinance with data center specific language um in the past few months. Uh but most of the most of the recent activity has been um either no action or or moving into moratoriums in the region so far.

Entering into entering into a moratorum with the expectation that they're going to update their UDO. I assume all of them.

Correct. I believe that is the case. All of them are it. Most of them specifically clarify giving staff time

to determine language for their UDO.

Okay. Thank you. Y

did you want to take questions during or wait till the end?

We're happy to take questions um during. That's fine. It'll Yeah.

Okay.

We have a couple people already then. Council member Scarvy Johnson followed by Council Council Member Scar. Okay, we're good. We'll let you know if there's questions.

Awesome.

I just wanted you to know who I was. [laughter] So obviously what's relevant to us here today is what the key considerations are for local governments and navigating data centers and how rapidly things are approaching. And so I think we've tried to break this down into about six different categories. Obviously this is not all inclusive. So just keep that in mind. And I think starting off with infrastructure demand, as you know, hypers scale data center facilities are going to require 100 plus megawatts of energy and sometimes a million plus gallons of water per day, which is going

to create a lot of new considerations for our utilities, departments, and just generally long-term infrastructure planning for different towns and cities. And then obviously that bleeds into land use and planning. At Central Pines, we've had a lot of help from our planners [snorts] navigating our data center work, which has been really important, but also our North Carolina communities are having to evaluate their zoning standards um specifically related to data center sighting, the setbacks from data centers, noise, screening, lighting, and just generally land use compatibility. But also they have to figure out the role of planning and avoiding over interpretation of local authority which I think is really important is understanding who is allowed to do what full transparency and then obviously community impacts with technical beyond the technical considerations they're also going to be balancing how the community feels about data centers which is something that we've all probably seen within the media. recently. It's just something that's being discussed constantly and so having to navigate community questions and perceptions with a lot of new information coming in is a lot which is why we hope to be a resource for you all. And then also we wanted to speak on property tax under the community impact section. That was something specifically mentioned to us that would be important. And so Wake County has given us permission to share its experience in this regard. And so when they're looking at smaller scale data centers as an example for how property taxes are effective, they found that the taxable value of the facilities are declining very quickly. And that's because the value of the facilities is tied to the equipment in the facility like a server, the connectors, racks, and those things depreciate very quickly over time. And so I guess what we think is it's just

important to take a conservative approach when looking at and estimating long-term tax revenues from data centers. Do you have any statistics or or a comparative table on the size of the data center versus the or the size of the data center and the anticipated resource consumption. So we are and it's like a fun preview for the end, but we've been drafting a ordinance for UDO amendments. And so in that we are working with different experts to put together that type of exactly what you're saying, that type of side to side comparison to create that universal level of comparison of what makes something hypers scale versus what is a another type of data center. And so those definitions will be present in the draft ordinance that we are producing.

And I'll add that defining data center by the magnitude has been one of the most we have a very difficult process. Um not necessarily because of what's happening today, but because there's some unknowns about what they'll look like in several years. And so uniquely in North Carolina, there's, you know, the zoning you put in place right now, at least right now in North Carolina, you can't then change it in certain ways. And so there's cons there's there's questions about how the technology will change and its impact on the square footage of data centers, the water usage. So some of the ways that you would traditionally measure a type of zoning or or development are hard to predict in the future. we can make some assumptions right now. So that's been a very almost philosophical debate in our working group on ordinance language.

Do you have any data on or comparison on number of jobs data centers create compared to the same size businesses?

I know that we do. I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but they are definitely not um creating as many jobs.

I think it's actually mostly in the construction of the data center

like the upfront in construction and then you really see that trickle off as they're maintained. Yeah. In regard to employment.

All right. So moving on, um definitely top of mind for a lot of people would be environmental impact. And as we noted in the beginning of the presentation, data centers place a lot of demand on our energy grid, on our water supply, and other infrastructure, especially when you're looking at those hyperscale data centers. And so what we've been doing in our working group is having conversations with these providers. So water providers, utility providers to actually understand what impact we're up against and how to input that into our draft ordinance so that what we're collecting the best practices are from those that are directly involved with these different providers like utilities and water. And then avoiding UDO duplication I think has been one of the most important things that we have been wanting to stress when we have spoke to different communities about data centers. Obviously communities are already going to have some standards for lighting or landscaping um traffic building design and enforcement. And so it's really important for our communities before adding anything that's data center specific to make sure that what's in their UDO doesn't already cover what they would be adding and that the impacts are unique and specific to give some examples of things that might be [clears throat] data center specific that would a UDL would cover.

Noise would be one of the larger ones

that's come up specific to data centers. They have a unique noise concern. um that I believe comes from their equipment. They often have a lot of generators on site that can make noise and then there's this I don't know exactly the technology but high frequency or or low fre one that you kind of almost can't hear. Um and so that has been a large consideration um as well as general um look of the facility because at least at the hypers scale level they are large. Noise would be one of the most unique ones. Thank you. That was really helpful explanation. And obviously evolving state and federal policy, state and federal policy surrounding data centers is moving. It's still taking shape. We don't necessarily know what's going to happen. And so as communities are considering local standards, it's just important to stay updated in in the know of what needs to be addressed locally and then also what needs to be addressed specifically at the state level. And I think that leads us into talking a little bit more about those impacts.

Yeah. So I'm going to share just a little bit about what's happening at the federal and state levels. Um the the high level at the federal level is there has not been any notable legislation on data centers. Um there have been proposals, none have gone through. Um none that would impact local zoning or land use conversations that you might be having. Um there are some executive level actions looking at speeding up permitting. None of that has taken place in a way that is a mandate to local governments. And there's been some pledges that are not necessarily binding by large companies that may be interested in that they will cover their own power costs. So these are the the large seven major tech companies made a pledge with the White House to do that. Um since that's very much a concern that

comes up in the public conversation about data centers.

When you say they cover their own cost, they have to cover their cost, right? So they're not getting free.

Well, that they I think the Yes, I think the I'm not sure how it would work in practice, but the pledge was that it wouldn't be put into the larger system and that residential customers would be paying an increased rate because of the demand. The infrastructure that goes into adding that capacity might increase the cost. Do you see in the future? Um I just read an article like Fort Bragg has own nuclear reactor kind of a thing. So I'm I can think these all these people will start doing the same thing and be independent.

Yes. And informally, I I don't have a great number of data points to this, but when we've had some conversations with folks at the state level, um it sounds like companies are beginning to try and provide their own power on site because the timeline

of waiting for the infrastructure to be built through Duke would be so long. So, that is definitely um if not already happening on the horizon. Yeah.

Got a question on that. So when they're saying cover their own power costs rather than shift them onto residential customers, is that effectively saying that they will you you're just saying that generating power on site but have generators that burn fossil fuel that then pollute the air?

That's definitely a possibility. Um I think there's less there's less awareness of what that would look like since they would be building it on their own. But um it does get to another piece of the conversation that you know some of that would trigger state regulations around air quality and and other elements of the environmental impact piece of it. Um so we don't really know how they will we don't know maybe someone knows. Um but yes it's very possible. Um other activity at the federal level

has mostly uh that we've really not seen go through focused on just grid concerns and grid interconnections. Um so that's much a larger scale conversation on energy. The state level has had still not a ton of formal action but definitely more relevant action for the day-to-day work that the the the town may be considering. Um so there's two different pieces to what's been happening at the state level. the governor and the the agency level. Um the governor has taken two actions. The first was last year to establish an energy policy task force which one of their main recommendations was to remove the exemption on electricity purchases for data centers um which was included in the state budget that the governor has signed. So um specifically state uh tax exemption for electricity purchases has been removed but equipment incentives have not been. Um that's the only formal action that has been taken at the state level on data centers. There's a lot of agencies talking about it. We've had some great conversation with DQ and some others who have regulatory roles in things like air quality. Um the one other bill that was formally proposed that we were monitoring really closely because it did pass through both chambers but never got a final vote was a bill called the rateayer protection act. Um and some notable things that were included in this that we just used to kind of guide our ordinance conversation and other conversations about water usage. the um bill really focused on um noise and water. And so just as a tea leaf of where the state may decide that they want to have a role, we're taking that as a sign. Um they specifically focus on data centers that we call hyper scale, so the 100 megawatt or greater. Um obviously there might be impacts from a

smaller size than that. Um but that's where they really focused. And so this legislation, which is not law, but was moving, um would require closed loop water systems for all data centers in the state, would require applicants to provide um an assessment of their noise to any local government that they're applying to develop in, and would require DEQ to establish water use standards for data centers by this fall. Obviously, we're almost there, so they're not going to do that by September 1st. Um so there really hasn't been any impact at the state level. um especially on the zoning side, but we assume that there is something coming and so we're continuing to monitor that especially on the water use side for our utilities purpose um to make sure that we can be proactive on those impacts. We've kind of spoken to this a little bit and apologies it's cut off a bit at the top, but I'm just going to talk a little bit about what Central Pines has been doing in our regional response. And so the first thing that I think we really started off with was just having open regional discussions. I know we heard from a couple of different avenues that we were one of the first places to just kind of start convening to talk about data centers and then as we move forward we really leverage the expertise of the people in our community and and that we're able to contact with being a council of governments. So we were able to engage with Bruce Venal at the town of Apex. He's put together some incredible research and resources and is helping us navigate creating a tier system to identify the different mega wattage for each type of data center as well as helping us compile together the best definitions for each of these things which has been very helpful. And then as Elena mentioned, we've had conversations with DEEQ's leadership, which has been really helpful to just kind of understand genuinely what is

going on in regard to decommissioning, wastewater, and then air quality concerns. And as well as that, we partnered with Wake County to host a regional zoning working group to support just general peer learning about data centers. But as we've mentioned, it was really created to begin drafting and developing a data center ordinance and that is really in progress right now. Then we things that we've already completed. We've created a resource hub which is accessible on our website. We'll have a QR code later. We've created a defining data centers white paper which is kind of a really deep dive overview into the basics of if you were just diving into understanding the arena in general. And then we also have created a moratory tracker for our member communities which we provided a snapshot for at the beginning of our presentation. We've hosted a lot of speakers that have spoken about data centers. Specifically during our regional day event, we had Michael Turner from Lowden County, Virginia to share their lessons learned, which is I think called data center alley is what they call it. So that was really cool to have him come and speak to our member communities even if we aren't looking at the exact same thing. It was nice to learn from what he had seen. And then recently we had our executive director Lee Worsley host at the North Carolina Teachers Association panel on data center growth. And so that was really awesome to get to be a part of. And then next month we will be in Holly Springs presenting to their land use advisory committee on some of these same things here but also some different research interests that they have. All right. So, moving on to a little bit

more in the weeds about the draft ordinance. So, the model ordinance is going to be a starting point for communities that are reviewing existing regulations that address data center development. It is not supposed to replace a community's UDO or supposed to be adopted as a catchall ordinance and that's something we really wanted to communicate. So communities should be reviewing the UDO first what's addressed in their own and then other local regulations and where those adequate standards exist. Those should continue instead of creating a duplicate data center specific requirement if it were to be the same exact requirement. So, our model is supposed to help fill different gaps and just provide language and best practices that communities can adapt that are going to be traditionally what's going to need to be addressed for data centers. And so, it's not necessarily our stance or our opinion on things, but just best practices and convening experts in the region and research that we've been able to dive into. And so the ordinance is organized into eight main sections. You can see here. I'm not going to read everything off, but the first section is authority, purpose, and intent. It addresses legal basis of the ordinance. We have different definitions which will include that kind of tiered scale that we spoke about. Section three is use classification and zoning. So where things might be permitted or not permitted. Obviously, we know that this is going to be very community specific and we have context throughout the ordinance that make sure that communities are guided to check their UDO first. Section four would be application requirements. So, pre-review, postre, noise studies, things of that nature. Section five, supplemental use standards. Then we have monitoring and reporting.

Section seven is enforcement. And then section eight would be administration. And so it kind of just walks through each of these different sections. So, how crafted the ordinance is, it was kind of all over the place, but it really started with combining kind of national evidence. So, national research, it started with a lot of webinars, lift serves, emerging research, and different examples across the country and [clears throat] not just in our community. We really looked pretty wide. And so our ordinance specifically draws a lot from Apex's 2026 research and also the York County, South Carolina model ordinance as well as different ordinances from North Carolina and Virginia. And we've provided the specific North Carolina state statutes and regulations. And Central Pines is also obviously going to continue to see what is developing and what would need to be amended in this draft. And so we're looking at North Carolina requirements very specifically, DEEQ's requirements, North Carolina building and fire codes because really our goal with this is not to just recreate and regurgitate standards that already exist. We actually want this to be helpful. And so speaking about that working group input I think has been the most helpful having planning staff from across the region to dive through each section of this draft compare it to what they're seeing at their local standards and provide us um areas where more research and technical input is going to be important. So letting us know where we might need to do a little bit of outreach to figure out something in the most professional way. And so I'll add on the working group. Um so this was specifically a invite of communities

that we knew were working on their ordinance language um specifically on this topic. So there I think there's 10 communities maybe across our seven counties um and they represent a very wide range of communities. So the hope is that it reflects every community's general needs um and also got ahead of some communities who we knew were actively making changes um so that they could be a part of the process instead of getting really far down the road and then discovering that they would have appreciated being a part of the conversation before they adopted something. We know everyone is trying their best to put together the most useful zoning language on this topic. So, um it's a it's a smaller subset of our 50 communities, but it hopefully um reflects the dynamic of our region and all the different types of communities that are involved.

Thank you. So, looking at conversations with experts, I think the most recent thing that we've had come up is Apex has shared its input from a noise consultant. And so that will be something that we will input into that section of the draft UDO and something that we really wanted to push forward with our working group is having expert knowledge and then bringing it back so that we can inform this ordinance. And then you'll see going forward we have here that section five really contains the bulk of what the data center specific standards are going to be. You can see here they're listed out from site and land use all the way down to long-term operations. These are going to be all of the specific topics that are tackled in this draft ordinance that have also had input from planners and experts across the region as well as just best practice research in general. When you say data centers, I think that's pretty loosely used word um to be honest because I build six data centers

from my hand you know literally hand like two in Phoenix uh two in Kansas City and two here and I understand the uh how much noise it makes because um the Chinage road um has the AT&T data center and I worked for AT for 20 years. It has pretty much the fans of almost I would say two floors is if you have seen the Guns of Never on like movie that's the kind of thing that it and just turn it on once in a while. Um but I want to be very clear the data centers you're talking about is more hypers scale data centers and GPU centers not the regular data centers because both are two different beasts and that's the reason when people keep saying data centers there is hypers scales are like 100 acres and 300 megawatt of usage. Um but that is not we're talking about. So I the word is very loosely used.

Yeah. And I know we've um that's been part of the definition process is figuring out how to make sure that because there are already operating data centers

like you're saying in our region um that are often much smaller scale or are not um having the impacts that people are concerned about with hypers scale. So being mindful of um the different scale sizes has been really important in this process um because obviously the smaller ones don't have the impacts that everyone's concerned about. So

and our goal in the draft ordinance as per recommended by some of the members of our working group similarly to you were asking us to be sure that we include definitions for everything that might be a question. So, every single type of data center and any type of

specific definition that may not be explained within the ordinance. Um, that was a really good recommendation for us to be sure that we're addressing everything that someone might be concerned about or thinking about. So, thank you so much for your comment. So as turn my microphone on. So for our regional response just moving forward we are in the process of finalizing our model ordinance draft by the end of September. I almost said this month but it's not September yet. And so that is what's coming up next. And then also we just wanted to mention that alongside the draft ordinance they will there will be a use guide to help communities actually know how to work through each the section each section and identify where their existing UDO language kind of intersects where our draft language is and how they can use it to be useful to their specific community. And then we will also share the draft wars and key findings with the state in hopes to just help broader inform conversations around data centers and the best practices that we've seen through our regional convenings that we've been doing over this past year. Obviously, we're going to continue to moderate what's going on at the state and federal level because we want to make sure that the ordinance is constantly and always aligned with those changing requirements or it's pretty much null. And then what's really important is to have ongoing and consistent conversations with our providers. So utilities, water providers, and other technical providers so that they can actually tell us what we need to prepare for and what to look look for. And then as we move forward, we will continue our regional convenings and technical assistance to our

communities that are navigating interest in data centers or they're getting sightings or they're just feeling the rumblings of a potential data center. We're here to help you guys out and kind of parse out the path forward. We're not complete experts, but we have a lot of people that can help us and planners that are able to figure out for each of our specific communities how to navigate this

question. Um, who is the target audience here? The reason I asked that is Vick is almost getting built out. you know to do those hypers scales is pretty hard but are you guys person I think personally you guys should be targeting the small towns who have no knowledge and people go and get the UI changes uh and second you know by right they have it um I know or something has the Google or Amazon I don't know hypers scale and is getting restricted on the DEQ side because that is the only way to stall for the water and other than that like you know many of the small towns have no clue what it is and many people think oh it's a tax dollars and and it very little quickly depreciates um so are you guys going beyond I know Triangle J I was there for several years but you know more of the small towns where like they have large pieces of land. I think those are the targets that all these companies are looking for.

Yeah, we're trying to reach as many communities as at least in our footprint. We are directly trying to reach across all seven counties. Um as our region grows, there are fewer and fewer small rural communities in our region. But um we still do have a good number in Johnston and Chadam and um Lee and Moore to some extent which are part of our region. Um I think there's also a

I will say um our working group includes some larger communities and no one is doing something I think everyone is benefiting from the conversation especially on the zoning side. Um mostly because there is a lot of pressure to get it right on zoning because of the downzoning issue that there is at the state level. Um, and so there's a lot of everyone wants to just make sure what they put in place will last for a long time and there's a lot of unknowns about things like technology and all that as I said. So, um, there's definitely less pressure and there's a lot less places for it to happen in Wake County, but I think everyone is happy to have a working space to be talking about this topic because there's just a lot of public pressure on it. So um yeah, but we are definitely trying to reach our smaller communities. We we have some staff um who actually are planning staff for the small communities which helps because we can

we can help get ahead of some of that um because some of them see as a great source of revenue and it can be it can be a great source of revenue

and and for Mars school particularly we don't have we don't control water we take care so and electricity obviously we are so far behind to do anything here.

I know this probably isn't within your purview, but I did want to say that I hope that at the state level or even that at the federal level that someone is going to be looking out for majority minority communities, which is where this type of thing does tend to get placed. You know, first it was hog farms, now it's going to be data centers. and you park this in the backyard of people that don't have the money or the resources to fight you and it just increases generational

inequities. So, I don't know if you've heard anything along that line. I know that this probably isn't a great time politically to have that conversation, but I just wondered if you had heard anything. I think mostly we've just heard the it more from a rural perspective. Our communities that are um that are rural and are in need of money are are looking at it as an opportunity and it can it can provide money. So that is not not to diminish that that's a possibility, but there's also a lot of other impacts that come with that. Um so we haven't had that piece of the conversation to to this point. So, is there anything you need from us or are we just sort of having a little discussion in reaction to what you

Yeah, I we I mean, we would love to hear if there's resources that you think would be helpful, if there's speakers you think would be helpful. Um the your staff will be receiving and I'm sure you all are welcome to look when we have the template ordinance, but this is just meant to beformational. So,

so I had a couple of thoughts. Um I'll start with the and council member Garamela brought up the fact uh very interesting like where can it be done by right right now and have you guys tried to create some kind of sample language or best practice to get ahead of that for all 50 look at each one and say okay you have risk right here and if you want to not have it happen by right before you know it these would be your steps Is that part of your effort?

It hasn't been to directly assess each community's um zoning, but we certainly could do that. I think most of our communities did not have it as language at all as a definition in their documents already. So, most of them are adding it in as a definition. I think Chhatten County may be one that had it in there and has had some changes, but that's a great idea. So that might be a

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coming off the buy rate because that's once it's happened, it's too late.

Um, another thought, what is the risk of the federal government saying that municipalities cannot say no like they did many years ago with cell powers? Are you assessing that risk and trying to figure out what we can do to advocate against that type of blanket statement? Yeah, there's been general statements pushing, you know, development of it. We haven't seen anything legislatively come out that would be indicating that that's going to happen anytime soon. Um, it would obviously be a concern and we haven't seen anything at the state level, which is also um useful, but that's another great space for us to look into.

Okay. Um, as you get to the defining data centers and how to use it, will you be able to also provide like some AI prompts to people to say, "Okay, put your geo here, put this here,

help have AI integrate it like to save them time.

That might be a good thing to come at it with an AI expert about which prompts would help them to do that."

Yeah, that's a great idea. I think um

yeah there is um for sure um there's one water when you talk about one million gallons a day

and the one water concept is that all water is good ground water used water should be reused so I need a little education about this water that goes through a data center doing the cooling and it comes out the other side is it useful for anything else

so yeah I'll try and please correct me if I miss anything do you want to Okay. [laughter]

So, um, so I'm an HBAC design engineer. So, um, uh, this is used for cooling. So, you have an openloop system and a closed loop system. The openloop system is basically you have um

cooling tower that feeds a chiller, let's say, and that's what keeps all the data, all the racks cool. um in an openloop system the uh it's evaporative cooling. So the water is put into um these cooling towers and then it just evaporates away. So that's how the that's you know it's taken in a million million gallons of water. That water is then getting evaporated becomes clouds and comes back into the environment

potentially. But it also um you know it's taken water away from the community.

Yeah. I know there's been from some of the utilities they've indicated that the general concern around water is just how much even if it's a closed loose closed loop system is a preferred from my from our research but it still uses a lot of water. And so for utilities obviously considering how much water is being taken from other uses that's something to keep in mind. The other piece that's water but it's waste water. So DEQ was really stressing the wastewater impacts that will come out. So when it whatever comes out of the facility um is often very hot and there's some sort of either from the equipment or the treatment it it completely renders it useless as a water source. Yeah. So figuring out where that goes is a large concern and which bodies of water. Um so that's something that DEQ when we had them come speak to one of our groups said there's been a lot of conversation about water, but we'd actually encourage there to be equal conversation about wastewater because of the impacts that there could be from the wastewater.

Because back in like the 2010s when Vicki and I first got on the council, there was talk about Jordan Lake having enough water for like 50 years. I'm not sure what that number is now, but it

would be good for you all to sort of dig into that and sort of give us what the expectations are and if data centers do come up a lot more, what will that change? How will that look differently into the future? Um, getting really granular in municipalities since the noise is an issue. Would the notifications about zonings and resoning requests be larger than the 500 ft that we have now, for example? That might be something to look at to make sure that you're protecting the municipality a little bit more and giving them a little bit more.

Yeah, I think one of the standards the the distance is much more than 500 ft if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, we've in our ordinance we have kind of adopted that kind of perspective of taking if there is a like max buffer that we've seen in best practice that's what we've listed and then giving context. But we will definitely make sure that we're looking into that and addressing that. is higher than 500. Yeah. For hypers scale.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I guess um if you could add to your presentation what hypers scale looks like compared to what we're used to. Is it an Amazon warehouse? Is it two of them? You might know better than most of us. What is hypers scale? I have no idea. Is it like Lenovo center? What is

No, like hypers.

It's like 100 megawatt. It's on a 100 acre. There's a design for it already. like you know you can put get 100 megawatts um hypers scale on 100 acres.

So that homage would be helpful for people like this is the Lenovo center this is a hypers scale.

I think we've actually seen it one of our planners

did take that really quickly and just sent it over just randomly. That's crazy that he had that same exact example side by side. But that's a great idea to add in there.

And we're talking about energy um and how it takes so much. Is it possible to in new ordinances essentially require for a solar offset require them to have

solar or something? Probably not, but I mean I think there

I think there's a lot of difficulty with acquiring

anything.

Yeah. I mean not anything but a lot of things and especially related to energy. So just thought planting the seeds about doing that and saying your communities might be more accepting

if you say 50% of our energy is coming from this solar source anyway

so we're less impactful to for the community. Um those were my thoughts that came out of your presentation and the prompting from the rest of the council. Looks like representative body and then council member Aramela.

So the example of the cell phone of the cell towers is a really interesting one because we really find ourselves in the same situation. Nobody wants a cell to a cell phone tower in their in their area. Nobody wants a data center in their area. But at the same time, nobody is going to stop using AI to do everything from write their grocery list to design their house. So, so the data centers aren't going to go away. Like they're I mean they're going to get built somewhere, but so is this just about keeping it out of our backyard? Is that what like is that what we're doing here? You know, like put those things in the desert and just let them go. So at least for the work that we've done, we are not taking a approach of no data centers or data centers because we have communities that want them in their communities. And so our approach has been what are the potential negative impacts that can come from it and how can we help communities that may not even be aware of of that from research plan for that. So, the way that they're using water, the way that they're using energy, how close they are to residential neighborhoods. Um, there's some things that communities are not regulatory involved in. And so we're

trying to not put that into this and recommend that you take a role that you don't have, but trying to get ahead of of that so that if you do want a data center because there are communities that do, here are best practices um to make it as as least impactful as it can be because they are going somewhere.

Yeah. Okay.

I got a lot of questions here. So when you're saying data center, what are you going behind? You're going behind more electricity and water. Is that the two? And noise. Those are the three things you're going behind.

Our definition of hypers scale.

I think it's by me megawatt. And there was some conversation about it. It involves size. Yeah.

Um the reason I asked that is because what is next? You have we have forge nano. It takes equal amount of water actually more than or sometimes you know to a data center because chip manufacturing all those things are comes very high. for also comes not high but when you have like 10 15 pharmas in the same area is almost equivalent to a hyperscale right so how are you by definition you know coming you know like you can have 10 farmers in Mars world and it's almost consuming water and electricity equal to hypers so is that that's the reason I'm asking who who is the target you know is it the data center because next I can see uh it will be pharma or you know it could be chip manufacturing and and for sure um I think Arian Baldwin when she was the mayor I

asked her specifically because Micron Technologies was supposed to come and fast you know like a billion dollars and the reason they stepped up stepped back is because the Harris nuclear plant did not even allow a gallon of water to be used to any of the other purposes. So they were protective of their water because the nuclear plant needs you know all those things and that's the reason they went to Austin and that's my thing is what is the future look like and that is because at Morrisville we take a lot of pride in pharma and other stuff. Any other questions?

Oh, I forgot who the question was.

Yes. Um, actually, yes. Do we know what this companies uh the criteria companies use to select a site for the data centers?

So, we have some sense. We would love we'd love to if they would share exactly what they're looking for. We um we know based so the town of Apex was one of the first pieces that sort of triggered us to be involved in this topic because they had a proposed development. Um and so we've had some conversations with them to understand what this developer found to be attractive about the site. The Harris nuclear plant was one of the things that they found to be really attractive as they were really close to a large energy source. Um, so they are looking for easy access to energy. They're often looking for a lot of land um and access to water are the the large ones. There's others, but um that was one of the main reasons they chose the location. It was directly either behind or really close to the Harris plant and they wanted that source of energy.

Does anyone else have any questions or thoughts to share? Council member Johnson.

So, I don't really have any questions, but I appreciate um the conversation and the update on the work that you all are doing for um for all of us in in the Central Pines region. Um I think what's more important is what we already are doing and um how we're protected and if we are um confident in our UDO that it is um it is protecting us the way we want. And of course, now we're talking special use permit, which is um really um I I hate and love special use permits, but um you know, we if I'm not mistaken, Jazelle, that you we need to have a or uh anyone that would come in here for a data center has to has to request through a special use permit. So, it's not even a reasoning, but a special use permit process.

I'm going to look up Michelle to make sure she corrects me if I'm wrong. That is correct. But it's only allowed in the gold district

BAC, sorry, a business activity center zoning.

Okay.

So only within that zoning and requires

and industrial

and industrial and it requires a special use permit if it was to be allowed.

Okay. Okay. So you know, so we've already addressed it. Now are we comfortable with that is a different question, but we've already addressed it in our UDO. And then I'm going to go back to um Council Member Garamela's comments about there are other uses that are just as heavily a heavy user of electricity and water and all these other things that we have embraced in this town. So this for me this is and I know for other communities it's different. for other communities they wanted to put a moratorum because they they haven't

thought uh or they don't have I don't want to say they haven't thought but they don't have the UDO as updated as they want and um but I um I'm not sure we're in that same boat I guess that's my comment

council member Kesler

so I also had the question about our ordinance um specifically you know will Morris build ordinance be misaligned with the model ordinance once the model ordinance comes out. Um simply because it really was adopted before a lot of the conversations have been happening throughout the throughout the country really um throughout the state. So that's a question there. Um I don't know. So, so with the open loop systems, one of the things um this is uh kind of pertinent in in hospitals and some other places, but Legionnaire's disease um that is something that you can uh Legionella can grow in a in a cooling tower and um so if you do have those open loop systems and you place them next to some residential communities, um I don't know what the um carryover on that is uh but Yeah, it could be a possibility there and probably hospitals would be the the place to look look to for um how they address that. Um I also wanted to um give a plug for an organization run on climate. They have a lot of um data on or not data but uh examples and toolkits and whatnot. Uh some of it looks like it's um maybe overlapping with what y'all have um but just a lot of resources there treasure trove basically you could say and then um I'm also involved with Ashray the American

Society of Heating Refrigerating and Air Conditioning Engineers and we have subject matter experts um that you can reach out to the um to that staff and they might get to get you connected with someone that's a inside the building sort of thing. So, especially if you're talking about um state building codes, um that would be a good resource to uh um you know, pick their brain on some of those regulations and let them know.

Um the resources sound great, so we'd love to see them. Just on the the dis the the ordinance, I don't imagine being adopted the same by each community. We already know um some that are in the working group are going to take a much more stringent approach on how far away things need to be or some of the standards um because each committee already has some standards in place. So that's just a comment that it won't be just everyone adopting the exact same thing and you're not adopting it. Um but

and when you have resources to sort of look into the legislature and see what the communities are authorized to. You can't go unlimited, right? So, there's probably some limits on how stringent they can be and they might not have the capability to do that in house.

Does that make sense?

Could Yeah. Could you repeat that? I'm sorry.

Um, so like the notification buffers and things like that, there's probably some maximum set by the legislature if you include that so they know not to exceed. Um, Council Member Scar Johnson, please. Very good.

Well, good evening. Thank you for coming out tonight and sharing with us some of your research and um next steps. So, that's very helpful. Um Morrisville is an unusual situation in that we don't have a water utility. um we rely on Carrie providing us with an allocation

for our um entire town. So with that, if a hyper data center is needing an excessive amount or an excessive percentage of our allocation, that is going to be harmful to our community. So looking at our UDO and understanding the parameters of our allocation is important to this town. Um the electric supply issue has been a challenge in the sense that we have introduced a business sector with biioarma which is a high consumer of electricity for their light industrial manufacturing and their activities. So we already are at deficit in our town for electric needs and future planning without any data centers coming into the horizon. So um that that I struggle with is like how can we provide what we don't have when we came and we strive to provide what we need in order to um serve the business and residential community that we have today. And then finally, the noise ordinance is tricky. We just have a simple noise ordinance about so many decibb, you know, no parties after 11, that kind of thing. Um that is an opportunity to look at a noise ordinance that might have a little more flavor of you know ongoing continuous uh intense sounds of certain decibb and looking at those parameters. I think that is an opportunity for our town to revisit the noise ordinance. It's not

just the social noises, if you will, or the construction noises. We typically no construction before 7 a.m., that kind of thing. So, definitely identified a blind spot for me as to what noise really is and where we might have to think about um further definitions of noise for the town. So, thank you. And I had one further thought for your working group and perhaps you might be able to add value to municipalities that are kind of seeking maybe data centers as an opportunity like what type of redevelopment could they fit in like could they fit in an office that's underused or flex space or something like that and how much would they need? So that might be another thing that you can add to your list of things to do.

Yeah. No, that's a great idea. No, and I one thing that we didn't touch too much on, we don't have a ton on there really are not a lot of resources on this is the conversation of decommissioning of data centers is also something that has come up. Um, partly because we assume the technology will change and so they may not need the facilities the way they are right now. And what will that mean for any community that has one, but for if it's a community that really wanted one um and then has a a nonoperational data, no longer need a data center. Um and so in conversations with DEQ, who's been our best resource on that, there's really no templates on decommissioning for data centers that we've found yet, I don't think. um they have some samples present solar panel decommissioning as their best answer, but that's just been an interesting um it's not exactly what you were saying, but maybe think of it is the decommissioning conversation being a concern.

To pass it back to our deputy town manager to let us know um how our staff

has been interacting with this group and what next steps are and how you're using them as a resource or what you need from us in order to do that more.

Thank you and thank you to Grace and Elena for the information they have provided to us tonight. So the intent of bringing this to you all is definitely provided as anformational session just the work that is occurring here in the region and just making sure that we're plugged in with what's happening. Um they currently have what's here is the the website where they are putting a lot of information a lot of the research that they are doing is available on this website. They also have um provided access to staff to some of the information. They also have on their share uh point site and um we continues to stay uh connected to the work that they are doing. They continue to do webinars and different sessions that we can come together and continue to be informed. Um my question to council is now that you have received thisformational session uh what else would you like to hear about? Is this a topic you want to continue to hear about? Uh do is there anything particular that you are interested in for staff to research any further and bring back to you?

Council member Kesler question that I was asking earlier about Morrisville's um ordinance and how that aligns with the um model ordinance. Okay,

that was gonna be my question. Um, as soon as you publish your best practices, I'd like I'd be interested in knowing what staff will do with that.

Council member Scott Johnson. So um to council member Garamela's point, I think we need to define data centers in our UNO much more clearly and in fact add a definition because I don't

like data center generally being in BAC and industrial. I think the hyper data center would only belong in an industrial environment in our town and not in a BAC just due to some of the safety and health concerns that you were described tonight. Um but data center for the purpose of a small data center that a company needs in order to do their operations. I don't see that to be a problem. And so I I want that flexibility to allow our business community to thrive, but not the the you know superersized uh data centers to begin the um wrong place to impact the quality of life. Thank you.

We have space in Morrisville. Could we fit a hyperscaler? No. Right. Okay. I All right.

Saying that we don't need it. I'm just saying I'm I was just asking because I'm I mean if you need 100 acres for we don't we don't have that anywhere.

Okay. I don't think we're going to be the most attractive community for this anyway. But I do agree that we should have some level of protection for ourselves in our UDO

and most expensive. Well, and well, yeah, fair point. But also, I mean, if you know, if quantum computing just shrinks the footprint of the data center, it's still not going to shrink probably the resource allocations. So, you know, we want to have we want to have clear definitions of what we do and don't want and the resources that we're willing to expend. to Mayor Protim's um Robat's comment. Uh we definitely can put can get more information more definition to make sure that we are protected. Yes, we don't have a site that will fit a hypers scale data center. Um, I do have to I I do want to let you know there is actually as we were doing a little bit of

research, we did find that there is a data center in Morrisville that's been here since the 2000. Um, is a much smaller care scale of a data center is not really a high use of utilities. Uh, but it has been operating for 26 years. Um, and that's probably what we may see more of. Um we do um know that there is some interest for some potential outfits to expand uh the use of data centers but again those are in the smaller scale uh type of data centers. I think those are completely fine because that is the need for operations of the a particular company and or we can have the ordinance in such a way that if this if they are making money off that data center like say Azure you know Microsoft or Google it's basically they're making money by giving the services but most of them that you're talking about are only for their internal purposes I think by definition if you can tweak it like you know then pretty much many of the things can be cleared out because that will automatically stop hypers scale and many other big ones

so um you're you're absolutely Right. We have a small, very small scale data center already here. Um, and I'm not sure we want to discourage any of that, especially in areas where there's redevelopment opportunities. Not that I want to see a lot of them either, but um one thing that I'm interested in um when it comes to the special use permit for a data center, we I know we ask about um impacts like

health impacts on the community. I forget the exact wording we use. It's like health and self health and safety of the community. But I would are we specifically asking or targeting this concept of noise. The the noise honestly the noise concerns me more than all the others. The others are concerning as well. Um but I'm not sure we I don't recall us ever really focusing on noise as a um an issue. So I I and there's no no need to answer. You don't have to answer it tonight, but because we're going to come back. The noise is going to be a um something I want to focus in on. You know, we understand all the energy consumption, the water consumption, but um the noise is what's going to impact the surrounding area more than anything. Of course, I'm not diminishing, you know, water and and energy impacts the community also, but it's the noise that concerns me. And then I also am um I I want to make sure we revisit the BAC too. And you know, industrial management is one thing in the IM district, but in BAC, um that might be something to make sure we're all okay with. Again,

I also would like to know if there is are sites adjacent to Morrisville, like in RTP or in Durham, if there's some place out there that we should be concerned about.

Yeah. Um, so I've heard it expressed here that we have some of these life science formula that might be more resource intensive than a data center. I don't know. I'm sure not as resource intensive as the hypers scale. Um, but certainly it's up there on the same level. Um so I think the concerns around data

centers with the resources that are being consumed I think it would be worth knowing uh kind of an equivalent um equivalent information you could say uh for the things that we do have here and the things that we are trying to attract um to understand the impact of those

kind of I guess a gayla apple to a pink lady.

So,

anything else? Any other questions?

Just a big thank you for all the hard work you've already done and all the help that you're going to be providing to all 50

as we go forward. Really appreciate your time.

Thank you. It sounds

economic developments. It sounds like from the questions that I just uh jotted down that you have an interest in. It seems like you will be appropriate to come back with an update on the topic and perhaps if central clients has any additional updates on the time we can share those with the council and then dive a little bit more into Morrisville itself. But thank you for uh for your time tonight.

Yeah. Want to take a five minute break? Come back at uh 7:20. Sound good? And then we'll be talking about the key to the town policy.

So, we're coming back into session right now with the second of three topics. I'd like to recognize Brandon Zudo, our town manager, to go over the key to the town policy.

Thank you, mayor. Good evening, mayor and council. Um, as you'll recall, uh, last meeting or a meeting recently, uh, on August 11th, I should say, we had a discussion about a key to the town policy. Again, shared that with you because we have issued a key on five different occasions, and we've never had a policy for it. So, thought it was a good time. There is no no pending application, no pending person I'm aware of, which probably makes it even a better time to do it rather than having someone in mind. Uh, so we talked through that and you gave me some feedback and asked for some addition additional information and clarification. So I think the easiest way to do that is walk through the red line uh version of what was in the policy when I showed it to you the first time and what I've changed and then can certainly try to answer questions, take comments. My goal um if we can would be to get any final discussion tonight so that it can be final edited and brought to you on September 8th on consent. So, um, key to the town in the scope, it said the key to the town is a prestigious honor that recognizes individuals who have significantly impacted the town of Morrisville. And I've clarified through their actions or through their visiting the town. Uh, that speaks to the dignitaries that was brought up definitions. I've added a couple of definitions. One for heroic life-saving act when an individual or group of individuals take action or actions to save the life of another person. Honored presence when a dignitary or other individual of great importance visits the town of Morrisville and their presence is an honor to the town. So then I've taken this first section that was the criteria for awarding a key to the town and changed it to just speak to those exemplary contributions. That was really the focus of the first policy. Then down the line we'll get to it. I've added a

second criteria section more for the dignitaries and the heroics. So two different sort of ways to get the key to the town. So in this section um length of service again I there wasn't consensus among you. Um I had included a minimum of 10 years and I've indicated it's at the discretion of council to reduce this requirement in unique circumstances. That gives you that flexibility if you want it. It is at the direct discretion. I'll correct that. All right. And then the nomination and selection process for those uh added a reference to timing. Council member Garame Miller recognized the award takes time to purchase and prepare following approval. Council should work with staff to understand production and scheduling timelines. You know, I think our intent would be regardless is to have this be a personalized key to the town. We've also talked briefly that there could be that surprise visit and we can always keep one on hand that just doesn't have a name on it and we could still do that and then we could always add a a more personalized one later or something like that. But for now that just reminds everybody that you know don't don't tell us today if you'd like it tomorrow. Uh Council Member Scrogggins Johnson I think your suggestion around who could be eligible or who could be on this uh committee. So I've indicated the mayor or the mayor prom. So that's one or the other of the two. Uh and then two members of town council which can include the mayor prom if not serving and live with the mayor. And then again there's a town manager or I can designate someone from senior leadership and a department head selected by me.

Really good.

Thank you. So here's that new criteria for awarding a key to the town for a one-time occurrence. two primary occurrences which would result in the awarding of a key to the town for a one-time occurrence. Uh, an honored presence in Morrisville by a dignitary or another individual deemed by council to be of

great importance in the context of visiting the town. Heroic life-saving incident occurring in the Morrisville community in which one or more persons are responsible for saving the life of one or more persons outside of their normal career responsibilities. So we have a way to recognize police officers and firefighters that might do this in the it's not the norm of every day but it's a job expectation.

So this might be you know if two inspectors are heading to lunch and they see a crash and they save two people or two residents or two passers by um this would be them. So a nomination for this award must come from a member of council. Uh the nominating council member can seek staff assistance in advance of the meeting during which they make their nomination. Council may elect to vote on a nomination the same night it is presented, particularly if the time is of the essence in having the award ready to present. So again, we don't normally ask you to contemplate and vote the same night. But again, if there's a short notice that there's an ambassador coming that you all want to recognize, that just might be required to do it all in one evening. Uh again, is that council's discretion to award a key to the town for either of these one-time occurrences based on a majority vote? There will not be a selection committee given the nature of these awards and really the timeliness that we expect a little more with them. The anticipated timing for the award of a key to the town for behind you um for a one time occurrence is anticipate be two weeks from the time council approves such an award. Council may request a staff attempt to expedite this process in unique circumstances. [clears throat] Um, yeah, that's it. And then there's there's the the uh the application. Happy to take questions. Yes, sir. Um, I like these ones, but what if like going in the for B, right? Right. It's only talking about a heroic or

life-saving incident. What if a kid uh from Marsville goes into Olympics or basically does you know something that no one else has done? How do you recognize that in this this structure? You cannot question. So, um

I know I'm just thinking

um so again right now that technically would probably not fall under this

couldn't proclamation or

you could do a proclamation a letter recognition. If if you want that to be something that would be a key to the town, we would have to add another category. I'm just think

I mean I think that's

I think if you want to think about you know one-time performances by a resident um it it needs to be a separate section and and I'm not saying we can't respectfully I'm a little concerned about what's the fourth one and the fifth one and the sixth one and then we're giving this thing away like it's candy. So, couldn't that fit under a couldn't that fit under um you a is for somebody that is visiting

is visiting and two is pretty specific for life saving

or you can add a line into that like you know heroic life saving instant or something like

put it under the first category the the just it's

performing an amazing Yeah. a long time service and we could just wave the years

if we really want. I mean it says right there we can wait the years.

Yeah. [clears throat]

If we really wanted to I personally don't but if we did want to do that we could do it that way.

Other thoughts on that?

Yeah, I think I think if you um I don't I don't that's a good example, but there's probably 5,000 more examples. So, I think we got to have to lock in on something, see how it goes. And what with everything we do, we can tweak it as time goes on. But I think I think we could also include that example and many others quite frankly in the first category. Just reduce the length of service if we want to. And there's a catch based on any violation we have. It's a discretion of the council

in the end.

It's policy. It's your policy. This is really to give you guidelines.

And anybody who's going to the Olympics has put in way I'm sorry and anybody who's going to the Olympics has put in way more than 10 years of preparation. I'm just saying, you know, that I feel like it fits there. We don't need another category. What's up? Any other questions, comments?

Looks like we're good to bring it back on the consent.

Yeah, that's the plan. I'll make that one edit and we'll bring it back.

Cool. Thanks.

Thank you very much. That's maybe a record 7:31. Uh, at this time we'll move on to item 2 C, town council roundt. We'll welcome back deputy town manure Rodriguez. Bless you for sure.

Good evening again. Um so this is the time for round table. We have four new roundts uh to be discussed today. There is also has been provided the tracking spreadsheet that has all of the previous uh roundts that have been provided including the one that were submitted the last time with an update for those items. uh given the the amount of information to be shared in the update on two of them. We added them as memorandums that provide a detailed uh

response to two of those and those are attachment three and four and that's for the little libraries and let's see and the foodways uh program. So if if we will go over the new ones first and if there's any questions on the other ones then we will visit that uh after we discuss the new ones. So the first one we have is Mayor Pat Robati if you would like to introduce your item.

Thank you. [clears throat] Um I think that my item is pretty self-explanatory. Safe Child Raleigh is an organization that offers services for free to children where there's an a suspicion that they've been sexually assaulted, abused, or neglected. So, the investigations into this type of situation can retraumatize a child in addition to what's already happened to them. safe child has a facility where the basically the child stays. They have an advocate and then if they need to see doctors, the doctors are brought in. If they need to see psychologists, the psychologists are brought in. So they have a home base of safety and security during the time of the investigation. So, up until now, they've been providing this service for free. Uh, I believe all through Wake County. I'm not entirely sure of that, but I believe that's the case. And Carissa Johnson brought this item to me because the safe child people had reached out to her and asked if Carrie could start covering their costs because they need they need a revenue stream in order to continue to provide these services. So, the Carrie contribution was going to be about $100,000.

I don't know what the Morrisville contribution would end up being. I God, I hope it would be zero. But I think that this is very important work and I don't think that they should do it for free if they're expressing that they may not be able to continue to do it at the level that they want to do it. So, I would like us to consider at least asking staff to find out what our contribution would be and whether that's something that they recommend we undertake.

Any questions, comments? Council.

So, yes, the safe child is an excellent organization. and I went for the gala and in fact Frank's colleague Carmichael she's the president of that association and we had it and they have a good amount of money they make um especially in auctioning and all those things you know that that night they made almost like $250,000 or something but nevertheless I think I like the concept what they do but for us we don't have a policy to to anything to a nonprofit and that is it it's comes back to that principle you know and till we have that policy this is one of the many of the where we failed to do it because this is they showed I went to the facility too and it's I think one in Vendale and one in rally or something they have Um but uh if we don't have a policy then we don't know how to go about and Kerry does have policies because they give money to Hamsub and all those things and like they have the funds to distribute you know PW.

Any other questions or comments?

Council member Johnson. So I um I would kind of echo what um Sati says but I think more than that I also say I know I I given to Safe Child. attended their fundraisers in the past. Not the Gallow because the Galla was too expensive for me, but um and they did raise a lot of money, but um they're a fabulous organization doing incredible work, but I don't know to what extent they do work with our police departments. So, that would be important to kind of understand. And they are not the only nonprofit that works with our police department. So now um I think there's a lot of precedent setting to to think about here and then um fairness too as to who who is working with our police department and working more than another group. I I mean we have Kieran that does domestic violence and and then we're getting into a point now I know you said to reimburse them. So that sounds like we're entering in some kind of contract. So that's a whole different ball game for me. So it seems to me that this is and I don't I don't even mean you know it was supposed to be easy quick but there's a lot I think that goes into um just making a decision to reimburse somebody and and I don't even know how um clearly they they if they if they approach the town of Kerry they must work in the town of Kerry a lot I would assume. I I they've never to my knowledge approached us. So I don't know what that means. Well, Cararissa had told I'm sorry. Cararissa had told them that she would speak to neighboring municipalities. I think was the situation. I like I said I would put it on a round table.

You know, if we can't do it, then we can't. I get it. the profit

[clears throat]

mayor colleague.

So sounds sounds like there's recognition of this nonprofit and others doing good work in Morrisville, but we cannot do it because we don't have a nonprofit policy and we've already done a little work towards it, but this council past councils have not supported just even having a policy in place so that we could consider these things or consider a way to have staff choose these so it's not political. So I guess a sub ask would be or we can wait till the end because it's one of them that we could go over and revisit in order to be able to address these in a timely manner when they do come up um to direct staff to revisit that other round table item and say please create a policy so that we'll have the option so we don't say well this is really great but we can't because we don't have a policy. So if we think it's a good thing to do, having a policy doesn't commit us to doing anything. It just commits us to having the ability to serve our community in a way that's legal because there's some things that we cannot expend taxpayer dollars with, but we can work with Doris for example or something like that. So if anyone wants to react to that now, otherwise I'll bring it back towards the end of this round table session.

Council member Johnson. So I got to look at this a little differently. If staff thinks we need to enter into contracts with folks to supply with groups to supply support to the work that they're doing. I'm I I would like you to bring that forward. So that and that sounds like something totally different. So um if I may, mayor, so I think yes and no to some extent. So I think we we do need a policy that speaks to I think generally giving any money to any

nonprofit. And then I think within that you could certainly have a discussion about a contract for reimbursement as being one option. You know another option is you're going to give $5,000 to organization Y and trust them to use it for Morrisville residents. So, I think to me anyway, and I don't want to speak for any of you, but I think those are both within the the confines of a nonprofit policy where you would be agreeing to take taxpayer dollars and be willing to give them to a nonprofit and we would talk about the criteria under which that could occur. One of those could be a reimbursement contract. One of those could be a donation for services to Morrisville residents. And there's probably others. We we still have some research to do. Look at what Carrie's doing. Look at what others are doing. We're not reinventing the wheel.

Yes. To to expand on onto that related to to an alternate, if it was specifically a contract, it will be if we were seeking the services of the company and the company is working directly for the town, which we have other contracts that we do. uh but for that there's a solicitation that occurs and then we will select the most qualified consultant and then utilize that consultant for that particular service and then we enter into a contract in which we pay for their services. It sounds like on this case they are particularly working for the victims instead of working directly for the town as the service seeker. Okay. So, uh, Council Member Kesley,

you'll be bringing up the nonprofit item later.

Uh, yeah, it doesn't sound like people are wanting to talk about it as part of this, although it's essential in order to make this go forward.

Um, I guess my comment is um for this uh proposal. I would like to know how that

would fit in our quote unquote established nonprofit policy. However, it seems that we do not have a nonprofit policy. So I would like that to be investigated with the you know the eventuality of okay proposal like this how would that fit within our policy once we get it established or as we're establishing it.

Thank you. Our current unofficial policy is not to have a policy and therefore not donate to any specific nonprofit because of there's so many good organizations. It becomes difficult related to safe child and other um health and human service um um organizations. Wake County has a function with health and human services and I know they are woefully underfunded like all the health and human services across North Carolina and we need organizations like these nonprofits to help um expand those services but it is a challenge for a municipality without that health and human human services function. So, I'm not necessarily in support of establishing a nonprofit, but I'm just kind of expressing frustration with the fact the town doesn't really have health and human services within its freement and when we have good examples like this of true need, how do we even approach that, you know, fairly? So,

thank you.

Thank you,

manager. So I think maybe council member Johnson to your point you know we actually do have one pro nonprofit that we have a contractual agreement with and that's the farmers market and so that is uh you

know we agree to give them in some cases dollars and in some cases staff time and in some cases we reimburse supplies and materials up to a level. It's very defined in the agreement, but that's an example of where we do that in return for a service provided to the community. So, I think, you know, you have that oneoff example. Um, that but again, it could still fall under a nonprofit policy that whatever that was would be guided by this this policy over and above it. Um, because I think that's getting something in return. And that probably leans a little bit towards what Mayor Pam is referring to depending how you work that out because I don't know. It sounds like they're working. They're looking for, you know, if we treat this many or support. I apologize. I I don't know the exact word to use, but if we support x number of people, you will pay us $10 times x. It's not that, but you know, that sort of thing. So, I think there's that which is a little different from we want to give additional money to a nonprofit and say use this at your will.

Council member Garo. So Brandon uh do we have a contract with neighbor because uh for affordable housing and then if they are

yes that's another example

okay that's what I thought okay and and by definition that is neighbor directly working with a town and giving services

right any other questions or comments on this round table item.

Say that again. Mayor apologize.

Sorry.

Can you repeat?

I would just say I would support it now and in the future supporting this nonprofit and others once we have policy.

Support the nonprofit, not necessarily the roundt item moving forward.

I'd support this round table item. Good. Is there okay to be clear the ask is to have staff find out how much a morsel contribution would be. That's it. A lot of these related very important ideas are coming out but I think very specifically we need to answer mayor prom's question. So to ask that question, can I get thumbs up? Support, not support.

Is it?

I would ask. Yes.

And then do what with it? We don't have a nonprofit policy. I think I think we're in a circle here.

It gives us a measure that as we look at, you know, is there

it gives us a measure of that service so that we understand um and right now we have no basis for the health and human services sector at all. I mean maybe it's a broader question of what other contributions are there allocations you can't get a specific number necessarily but quantifying I I think is helpful information we might say we still can't because we don't have a policy but I would like to know basically how much more spill with our dense population you know are are those resources really being carries a very large community. Morrisville is not, but we might be surprised how much Morrisville is in need of those services.

Any other comments?

I just had one additional comment um response to Council Member Scroggen Johnson. Um there's Health and Human Services at the

county level. Um, but then how are those services getting squeezed by the situation that the county's in where maybe that maybe municipalities could chip in a little bit more to support that support those efforts um until the state decides to fund them.

Thank you. Thank you. We'll move on to the next one. Um, Council Member Kling has two items. Uh the first item will be voluntary pre-application developer review policy.

Yes. So I'd like to direct staff to look into a voluntary public pre-application preview process for legislative resonings. So before a developer spends significant time and money preparing a formal resoning before staff spends their limited capacity on their application, uh the developer could bring an early conceptual proposal to a public council work session for feedback. This would give the public earlier visibility, give council an opportunity to identify major policy questions sooner, and provide a transparent alternative to developers seeking individual meetings with council members. It would be completely voluntary and non-binding, and I'm sure staff would recommend safeguards to protect the integrity of the formal review process.

Questions, comments? Council member SC,

I had the honor of discussing this with Harrison prior to this meeting and um I just want to clarify it really truly is an optional opportunity proposed for a developer or a large project even even a small project that might have some unique characteristics. But for years, we had always thought for some of the more complex projects, it might have been easier to first go to council and get a a read, then send it to planning and zoning board to get a little more fine-tuning and then have it

bring bring it back up. Versus today, the first time we really can react to something is after PNZ has had a chance to look at it. And sometimes that is with a lot of work, time and effort that has been expended on the project. And when council has a reaction that causes rework, it's more expensive and and it really elongates the process. So this is an um even though it adds a step in possibly initial time, it's an investment and cost savings for the town as well as the applicant optionally. So, it's not every single one to put a huge burden on, but it does like some of the reasonings I I can at least five different examples where this might have been a a really helpful tool for everybody. Thank you,

Council Member Gar.

I think Kerry does something like that. To my knowledge, they have the initial, you know, yes, no kind of a thing and goes back. But again, for the way we conduct our meetings like already five hours, six hours and when we bring these kind of things you know with no staff inping and just hearing from a developer we are getting into operations I feel and where we may like it but understanding there are like a lot of caveats and lot of rules and regulations um that have to be streamlined um by the staff before it comes to us you know because sitting on the dasis wow that's a great idea you know so what you know then what because it has to go back to them and say are they getting the yield of how many apartments they're doing are they getting the square footage how many they're doing so we are not in the space at all

but I'm just saying it it just adds up it just adds up our time here uh and it never reduces because we talk for every small thing. Mayor Britain Robot.

So, I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea, but I I think that this shouldn't this be happening at the staff level when a developer brings a project to this like most of the staff has known us some of you guys for 28 years. You know, it seems to me that the staff should be fully able to guide a developer and say, "Council member Castle is going to ask you about sustainability. Just put it in there." You know, I'm going to ask about, I don't know, plans. You know, other people are going to ask about I mean, they brought hundreds of proposals to us. So, I guess my question is what's the difference between if there's a value ad in a developer hearing from council? I'm not opposed to it, but I'm not exactly clear on where the delta is between what they would hear from staff and what they would hear from us in that situation. If I may, let me try to answer that question before I move to council members Johnson. So the way the process works now and and with council member Johnson being in council a little longer and also council member Scrabbins Johnson, there have been multiple things that over time has been delegated to staff to handle that as a as a more of an administrative item for reszonings. U applicants are required to have a pre-application with staff and they can have as many pre-applications as they want to. Like they can have a pre-application before the official one. they can come back for a second reapplication. And in a lot of cases, you may have received some phone calls from some of uh

developers that may be interested on hearing from your opinion individually before they make an official submission. Um very much like the way you described it that staff will specifically tell them this is what our council will be looking for. That's exactly how the meetings go. The meetings are very detailed as to what the interest of council is and what staff does through those meetings is they enter into a negotiation process for conditions. All conditions have to be offered voluntarily. So what they do is understanding what council's typical feedback is and some of the concerns and requests from council they incorporate that into recommended uh conditions so that their the developer can elect to offer those in exchange for whatever concession they are requesting. Uh but that's essentially the way it goes is staff will always lead those conversations with the developers um with council's direction with the priorities that they have heard from council and making sure that those are incorporated so that they are bringing forward a recommendation that staff believes align with a project that council would support and that's what the process is now. So, can I I'm sorry. Did

So, thank you for that because um I think and I don't want to speak for Council Member Kesling, but I think what what he's trying to get at is he wants to make that part that is happening more transparent to the public. And so, how do we make that happen? And maybe it's not

and maybe it's not worded as a pre-application pre maybe this is worded something very differently but I think I think that's the gist of it. Um I agree 100% with you. There are there are projects over the years that were so

ridiculous and so horrendous that they never made it to the public because council members put a stop to it or staff put a stop to it. But that was all happening kind of behind the scenes and it's really hard to articulate that publicly and I have tried to do that

many many many years trying to explain to people that this it's the best stuff or or the stuff that we have no sometimes we have no ability to change it too. there's there's often zoning that's already in play that um we don't have the ability to um to to change. But but anyhow, but I think that's the gist of it. How to how to make all of that much more public transport.

That makes a lot of sense.

Go ahead. Council member Screenings Johnson.

That's really funny. Council member Johnson, I was that was my point. Um, sorry.

It's like an early warning system, right? I mean, we've had several reasonzonings and some projects where the public finds out on a Thursday and we talk about it at the town council level on a Tuesday and they're major projects, major resonings, 20 different conditions. It's not fair to the public when they may or may not miss a meeting. And it just I I remember years ago we had brief twice vote once where that cadence allowed for the public to first be aware of something. This was a town council business meeting. So we we had different kind of meeting formats but we would introduce the item, give some initial feedback, bring it back, have a robust discussion, then the third meeting we would vote and that gave the public time to be alerted, give some feedback

initially, show up to the discussion meeting to help us kind of vet out some um items and then the final vote It was after that so that we came upon a better solution without having uh continuous rework and then there were some projects because um there was so much complexity it would was delayed 18 months you know so the you know brief twice vote once was something that I think is similar but it's just a different sequence to what you're proposing. Mayor Collie.

So, I appreciate um everyone's input into this and for you bringing this forward in the first place. So, I like the transparency idea. I'm a little afraid and concerned about getting in ahead of staff before staff has those discussions and shares with them what they think that the council would accept because if they bring something early to us and we say, "Oh, yeah, that sounds great." then staff is not in a negotiating position anymore.

Maybe it's something staff could suggest.

So I So I'm trying to find the way um to do it. So it's after those discussions but before the planning and zoning meeting. So that would be a way to and we'll recognize him in a second. Thank you for letting me know. Um so that would be my thought about the timing. Give staff their chance to negotiate. Um and if it looks like it's a n third anyway, they're going to go away like the um 55 plus units. It would have been nice if we saw that before the planning and zoning meeting so they knew they needed to do a neighborhood meeting because that one where people felt like they were it was too late for them. This would take that make it easier and staff now knows you should probably do a neighborhood meeting for certain things

so they can encourage that going forward. So, that would be my I would support this if we did it that way and didn't put staff in an awkward position, but getting in front of planning and zoning so that people could speak at planning and zoning if they want and then they have time to speak to us. Um, I'd like to recognize the town manager.

So, mayor, I do think the timing is critical if if you wish to pursue this. Um, you know, this has to come after at least the first staff conversation that typically occurs in a presubmitt. Um, but what you don't want is a project coming to you that staff has and I think I'm repeating you so but and not you but council. um because staff has to evaluate that because what you don't want is a I think a developer innocently or otherwise coming before you and suggesting they're going to do X Y and Z and we don't know if they're allowed by the UDO to and and staff can answer some of those questions in the in the moment of a meeting but some of that requires research and some of that has questions to it and there's a lot of work to be done. Um, so I think that that would be my first point was that it would have to come after an opportunity for staff to review it. And then I would also recommend that if we're going to allow for this, that is a developerdriven presentation. There should not be an expectation for staff work to accompany that because I think we're just creating redundant workload at that point. Um, so I would also suggest that that would be an important part of it. And I think uh council member Kessing, if I may, you know, this this came I think from a a Garner project or a Garner approach to doing this work. And so that's what I talked to, you know, their assistant town manager. They do they do it after a staff review and then they have a chance to do this in a meeting. Um, and again, I realize it doesn't address this the transparency component, but there's always still um developers that are going to try to reach out to you individually and small group because they may want to talk to you and when they're not in front of a a room of people um depending on the nature of their project or if they're trying to

hold anything back from public consumption for any variety of perfectly good reasons.

Council member Canel. Oh, sorry. So I would be first of all thank you for bringing this as a round table item and I think you and I have discussed this topic and you have addressed a couple of concerns that I had and yes I agree with mayor and town manager that as long as it comes after that first step of have staff discussion then I support it. Council member King I from my perspective just a point of clarification I wanted to reach with you because you are the sponsor of the item just making sure that it's going in the direction that um you intended it. Um you included transparency and also uh council input. If I understood from council member Johnson she supported the transparent adding some level of transparency component. Um, and I my question to you as a sponsor is the interest and end goal to increase transparency to the community or to include earlier input from council because that's two different things.

Do you think that what the mayor proposed does both?

So, I'll uh I guess address some of the things that I heard and then also um kind of get my my thoughts on it. um complex projects are increasing. Um that's one thing. Um and we certainly have limited land. Um so the is the juice worth the squeeze kind of component on this and you don't want to be in a position where you're having to decide whether to squeeze the juice and the community's watching to squeeze the juice and it's it causing friction within the community. That's certainly something. um even if staff has those meetings and gives those recommendation that doesn't

seem to stop developers from reaching out. So it seems um for the interest of transparency um and for the you know in the public interest that as individual counselors um nothing would preclude a council member from having an individual meeting for the developer. But I think having uh normalizing a process well well we have this um you know voluntary uh developer preview and if you are you know if you're serious about this project we uh we we will direct you to that if you'd like to do that. Um and we and you could end it there with you know we're uh don't want to have that kind of conversation um you know with you in private. We'd rather have that in um in in in public setting. Um so that's another thing. And then it does seem a little bit strange that staff speaks for us on policy. These are legislative resonings that we decide and they are essentially a policy question of you know what are we um you know what are we approving here. So that's that's kind of another component to it as well. I think still having the meeting is important. Um but certainly making the um and it's it's ultimately or not ultimately but a lot of it is for the public, right? We're here to serve the public. The public this is one of the the things that the public is very sensitive about, right? So just trying to make bring one bring them into the conversation a little bit earlier. Not that it would be a public hearing at that time, but you know, maybe we do have this meeting and we do give our thoughts and we do give our concerns. Um, and that would that would show the community that we are looking out for them instead of just having to decide on something. Um, you know, with with them not thinking that we're listening to them, that's a a lot of words to say. Um, yes, the

transparency. Um certainly getting council's uh letting the public see how council is um approaching these projects.

Council member Garamela,

I I agree what you're saying. Um the timing is everything. I'll give you an example. A presubmitt happens and then they'll come and do voluntary breathing. The time from when they do the pre-submittal to the final submittal is almost like what six, seven, eight months. Uh and so we are creating a perception that not even knowing we will vote for it or not vote for it but you're creating that store without even knowing what your end product you're getting out of it. So, so that unnecessary creates in a transparency is great but it's also creating a lot of rumbling and anxiety not knowing how we are as a council is going and how the staff is going to do it because they all the technicalities they sort it out and then it comes to us so it's almost like seven eight months so I don't know if like people have that much memory that u unless it's a it's a bigger uh issues you know they'll forget about it so and the anxiety still remains that's I'm just thinking because and you guys have to tell me how much time does it take not not every presubmitter actually becomes a submitter too

as I would say like one

so so the anxiety is already created but they never submitted

so then what happens I would ask the you know staff to

provide some direction on that but I think that you know all the points still stand that this is a an opportunity to allow um you know I know that it's a year from when the you know it actually gets decided you can have those comm those conversations with your community and certainly um you know okay well what what maybe maybe I didn't address the things that my community uh cared about in that developer preview, but now I'm having those conversations with my community on this instead of it being that kind of tense moment whenever we're actually having to decide and we're actually having to, you know, balance all of those things. I think it would also, you know, this is another thing that kind of, you know, ease our um, you know, burden a little bit because we can work with our community and we can work with the developers to make sure that what they are what they are um, uh, selling to us essentially is something that the community actually wants. Um, and if they know about that before they spend the time and the energy and staff's time and energy to um, you know, do all this, then I would assume that that would be resources saved.

And your interest is for that to be a council conversation.

Ideally, yes. So staff will direct staff to investigate and bring back.

Thank you. And you can proceed with your next item, which is

so folks are interested. I did print this out. Um only got five though, but um this is the Strong Towns Financial Decoder. I was mentioning it um at the retreat. Uh so I'll just give a brief explanation of strong towns. Um it's a framework and

there's three components that come to my mind which is street safety, housing affordability and municipal finance all with an underlying community engagement component and different communities engage in different ways. Um so just kind of setting that as the as the um as the scene. So the most pressing need and opportunity is the municipal finance component which is where this finance decoder comes in. Um and I had reached out to several municipalities and the core question you know just trying to have conversations about how are they using these frameworks um and how are they thinking about some of these things and the core question is is our growth and development creating enough value to support the infrastructure and services we are committing to maintain. So what I understand about this finance decoder is that it extracts already existing data from our annual comprehensive financial reports to evaluate sustainability, flexibility and vulnerability metrics over a multi-year timeline to help answer that very question. Um and I can give an example uh from the uh so the financial assets total liabilities chart can show a rising trend meaning the city is improving its financial buffer or a falling trend meaning the city is becoming less able to handle its obligations without borrowing or cutting services and the data that I've gathered on Morrisville shows you know a slightly downward trend so um which may be indicative of the conversations we've been having as of late. Um would it not be beneficial to use this free Excelbased tool that requires no license to investigate our financial position and take a higher level view of where we as a community are to help us determine how to achieve our fiscal resiliency? That's your question.

Mayor, mayor body.

Um, I would support having the IT team evaluate the tool and if the if the tool

is safe to put our information into and the underlying formulas are what's being proposed here, I think it's a great idea. So just you're aware our data is in strong towns. It's been entered into strong towns already. Okay. Not by us.

Yes. I'll

I'll share that there's 140 communities with this data using the finance code are already out there. That's not necessarily municipalities. That could also be community um groups that are doing this. It's a very community um aligned framework essentially. Um, but it is it is something I did also want to mention as well. The governmental accounting standards board is already looking at changing the reporting standards of infrastructure assets by 2028. So, this may also offer a way to help us prepare for that new requirement as well.

I'm not sure which one went up first. Council member Patel.

I'll be sure. Thank you for doing all the research and bring this round table.

Sorry, I was just thanking council castling for doing his research and bringing this to usable item and I would support it.

Okay. So um I think this is a rather innovative way at kind of looking at uh the fact that we are nearing buildout and we have to understand um our what I call like a reserve study or how much of um where where is our value going how much will we have to do refurbishment or replacement over time as well. So it's not just are we getting our ROI, but for me it's like when are

we going to have some major replacements of our infrastructure that ultimately ties into this financials as well. So that might be an advanced question, but I think of infrastructure as not just a constant, it's also something that needs care and feeding. And I support this. Thank you,

Mayor. I support it. I think it'd be a good additional data point for decision making.

Is this our information? I'm sorry. Maybe. Okay. Sorry.

Okay.

I um I inputed I uploaded it actually um about a year and a half ago. I think

um involved in the Strong Tones group. I was not involved in the in the invitation um Saturday. Um but I was involved with the group uh for a little while. Um and this was something that you know was discussed and and talked about but yes it is more data.

One of the points that I would ask is certainly to validate that data. Yes.

Because right maybe I put a zero in wrong or something. You know I'm sitting here is like oh what's this?

Okay.

Okay. Any other questions? No. Okay. Thank you. I did want to add um just for the record from our organizational resiliency document um so where the town has been investing approximately 1 million to 1.2 2 million annually that may need to increase in the coming years to maintain a PCI score of 80 or higher. Right? So that you know directly feeds into this. Um I appreciate everybody's support.

Yes. Payment commission index.

Thank you. So our last new round table item is from council member Johnson.

Do we want to formally vote on that? Like thumbs up or something? I think we

all

we were shaking hands. I everybody everybody said supported individually. So I was counting and we had enough support.

Um okay so this one is uh really quick and short. It it has to do with our advisory committee application and uh what I put in here is twofold. Um one is are we asking the right questions? Do we want a review of that? That's kind of the lesser of the two asks and then the most important ask for me. Um there's a question on there where we actually ask the applicant what their party affiliation is and for the life of me I don't know why we put that on there. Um in the recent couple of months I've heard from multiple people and I'm talking people that don't know each other, people from different parts of this community who have expressed a concern about that question. And um when I hear that from multiple people and again from multiple people that don't know of each other from all different worlds uh here in this town um it it rises to a point where I think um we need to have a discussion about it. Again don't know why we put it in there. I'm assuming there's a big assumption because I really don't remember the conversation. I'm assuming we were asking to make sure we had a diverse group of people on our committees of different backgrounds and thought processes, but um it's not coming across that way.

It wasn't a loaded question back then.

No, it was not a loaded question. You are correct. You are correct. It is not coming across that way now. It's being perceived as a litmus test and that is far from what I want for sure and I'm I'm sure all of you. So, I'd like that question removed ASAP. But um I'd also like us to make sure that the application is the way we like it. And just to also to be transparent that question about your party affiliation, it is not a required field. So you don't

have to answer it. Um because I went out there to I know. So I don't just get rid of it.

Yeah,

that would be my ask.

Yeah, that's a I don't

So I echo I I say remove that immediately. Um optional or not because we are asking for residents of Morrisville to apply to our advisory committees and not everybody has the ability to vote in our town

and so we have to be very you know respectful of that. We want to encourage a diverse group of people. We're immediately isolating a part of the population. So I I really think that we need to remove that. But I would like to ask if we could look at that um application form as a group maybe and just kind of all not tonight but um look at that and say is this are these asking the right questions that we need in order to appoint the right people for our committee.

Thank you. Mayor Patraati,

I would actually like to with council member Johnson's permission expand this item to look at the application process because I spoke to someone this morning that wants to be on one of our committees. And what she said to me was, you fill out the application and it goes into a black hole. And I don't know if I'm on the ballot this time. I don't know if I was on the ballot last time. And I I think that there's always room to improve the process. And with Kayla here and Kimberly, I think that it's time to take a look at that process and see if we're doing everything we can to make it a positive user experience in addition to the form.

Totally agree.

Council member Kesley, I apologize. I think I had my tail first. Apologies. Sorry.

Oh yeah. So

thank you for bringing this up uh council Johnson because I myself was wondering first time I looked at this question I thought what you just explained that maybe it was for diversity but it in today's political climate I think it may give an impression that

we're making making our decisions based on the information they provide on that question. So yes, 100% take it out and also agree with Mayor Proam. We should read visit the entire process and review other questions as well.

I agree.

Thank you, Council Member Cassie.

Yes, I agree with removing it. Um something that I was actually thinking about uh it I'm sure that not everybody knows every single applicant that applies. Um, and I know that some of the more successful applicants um, do either know some people or they come and give a public comment or they give an email. Um, so I think figuring out how to encourage folks who do apply to um, you know, if they're not already shown up to that um, committee meeting, uh, definitely encourage them to show up to the committee meeting, but then also come and you know, give a public comment. I think we're always wanting to get more people um you know to our meetings and communicating with us and whatnot. So I think not necessarily requiring that you got to give a public comment at town council meeting but um perhaps that is a you know to to um to bolster your application let's say um you know it is recommended that you attend town council meeting attend the committee advisory meeting things like that to provide some more direction like you said on so that it's not just a black hole.

Yeah, we do ask the question, have you attended any of the committee meetings or anything? But they're applying so it's too late to encourage them to do that. So we they just keep encouraging them to be part of the meetings even before they're members. But I support the round table item. So thanks for bringing it forward.

I believe by her support. Okay. So that concludes all the new items. Um we have provided the spreadsheet with the tracking of the old items. Are there any questions? Any of them that would like to be discussed. I know Mayor Collie had mentioned the one about nonprofit. Mayor Collie.

Yeah, we can just bring it up. Um it's way at the very end. Essentially, we brought it up in 21 and then again in 24 and there wasn't really support. Now we're in a different environment and I think it's to have the opportunity to um give staff the opportunity to provide grants or something to nonprofits to give a little bit more wraparound. I think it would be really helpful. We still have safe child today which would be really good. Um I know that neighbor provides funds to Morrisville residents in a way that in order to keep on doing that they could probably use a little bit additional support. So, um, if we do care about making sure no one is left behind, I think just having a nonprofit policy in place gives us the opportunity to be reactive, um, and not just see this again in two years and say, "Well, we couldn't do it because we didn't have a nonprofit policy." So, I hope that you'll just support having staff just like our town managers created a policy about the the key pretty quickly. This is a little more complicated because there's other towns doing it already, but I think he could put together a framework for our examination as a briefing item.

So I have I am showing above on the

screen. This is the last update that staff provided based on the research. Uh there have been multiple updates provided and this is the latest one. Um there's background here about different research that staff conducted looking into other municipalities and what our others doing and what staff is recommending on our case. Um, as you can see in the last sentence, staff does not recommend pursuing development of a nonprofit funding policy at this time, but if there's a specific need or policy objective uh to be identified in the in the future, it can be revisited. Um,

what is the date of that update?

This is the last update. So, it would have been the August update. Okay. And why would staff not recommend because we've talked during budgets and everything like that that there's we don't want people being left behind.

Understand. Um my my recollection speaking with uh Tiffany because she also had our minister program in the past. Um managing the compliance component of the nonprofit becomes a heavy uh administrative uh duty and oftent times it becomes very hard to manage the program. Um and based on what the research that staff had completed on other municipalities that had been doing the program seemed like there were some different pro different ways of doing the program in which there was some inconsistencies on the way that it was being administered and in a lot of cases it felt like it would definitely be an

additional load that it's not something that we are currently like on this case if it was to be economic development definitely there's no capacity there for the additional overload that will be required um on this. I think there is one particular case where they looked that uh the applications were actually being reviewed by council. So some of that will come directly for the council uh that will need to be reviewed and it's something for to be considered as well. Um and there are different levels out there. There are municipalities that are allocating 100,000, others that are allocating 25,000 and just making awards depending on on what the specific policy might be.

Yeah. And as we've noted, there's so many good valid organizations that there's more reason to actually create a policy and to make it work for our town than the other way around. And it will be up to it is entirely up to council. Um, Mayor Patraati, [clears throat]

I actually kind of like the idea of the council making the decision. But so I I don't necessarily think there's any overhead until such a policy is funded in which case then there would be overhead and I think that it's not a bad idea to have the policy and then when we're ready to make some type of you know when we're ready to dip our toes in that water, then we have the policy. Because what I don't want to do is to have a year when we suddenly find ourselves with $100,000 that could do a lot of good in the community and then have to wait a year while we develop a policy. So, I would be in favor of having a

policy,

Council Member Casting. So, I I don't think that I'm going so far as staff pursue development of a nonprofit policy at this time, but I do think it would be worth since, you know, we we we have this conversation um not say frequently, but you know, we're it's it's an active conversation that we are having. Um, I think it would be good to have, you know, the information and the research that staff has done so far, um, in something like a white paper that, um, you know, is available to us so that, you know, when we're having this conversation again, we can review it. And I would hope that provide you know if we if we did have a policy this is what would kind of this would this is what all would be included in that policy or will be encompassing of that policy um or considerations of that policy and then it's something as easy as you know once the um you know once conditions change it might be easy to uh ramp up that policy. It sounds like it's going to be more trouble to produce that white paper than it would. No, I mean, I'm not trying to be funny. I I think what you're talking about is is a lot of work to come up with what the policy would be if we were to implement it and like a lot of background research, but really I think that staff has already done the research and could develop the policy more easily than they could develop a white paper on the subject.

Council Johnson. So I don't support developing a policy draft at this time. One of my concerns is that we are collecting

tax dollars and and uh funding from multiple revenue sources and for us to reallocate to only a few nonprofits is is is really I think premature at this time. I I'm not feeling very comfortable reallocating tax dollars for nonprofits, even though they're all worthy. I'm just not ready for the policy at this time. So, I would like to see what research has been done, but I I think we're still too early.

Council member Gabella,

I I agree. Uh for me, I know we don't have a policy. I get it. But that is for a reason. We went through the budget every 200,000 only every 250 we are trying to scramble from here and there and uh we are not carry they have a $800 million budget you know for us every $50,000 is accounted for and when even if you have a policy and say we have 50,000 or 100,000 allocated to it it will become so politically charged that we gave it to them, we did not give it to this one and you know that temple got it, this temple did not get it, that church record it, this did not get it. We are setting up ourself for a big um you know face off with the community is is what I feel and and because I would if if if a policy was there I would help the seniors who are not able to pay taxes. we don't have that policy, you know, like so there's so many things that you can do, but we don't have those dollars to we're very very thin stretched. So that's what I would say.

Any other comments or questions? Council

member Johnson.

So this is coming from somebody who works with several nonprofits. I am constantly trying to raise money for nonprofits. Um, I'm not in favor of u nonprofit policy at this time um for a lot of the reasons um that were just discussed and and honestly so the re and I've said this before when we've had these conversations. This is just not something I'm hearing the community wants us to invest in. I am not hearing that. I am not I am hearing all kinds of other things about how we spend our money and what we should spend it on. This one never I I just I do not hear a a clamoring from the community that they want us to spend their taxpayers money um on nonprofits that we choose. I'm not hearing that. And and I'm hearing that from a community that I think is very generous. I think we have a community that does support a ton of nonprofits um you know associated with the temples um nonprofits that serve our community. I'm I'm hearing from a very generous community but they they're taking care of that on their own and I think they can continue to do that in a thoughtful way on their own without us getting in the mix. Mayor Collie

and I would just respond that safe child neighbor up the seniors they are saying otherwise that the community has needs and the people who are benefiting they're not the people who are time to talk to us about how they would like to see there some support there so that their families could thrive more. So, um, I'm going to keep on trying to bring this up because I think having a policy gives us the opportunity for when one of us says something like, "Yeah, Safe Child's doing great work, but we don't have a nonprofit policy." That we won't hear

that anymore. We'll hear Safe Child's doing good work. Let's have staff set up a grant program. So, these different organizations can come in, ask for small grants, large grants, whatever is appropriate, and I believe that the community would support it. Um, so I'm sorry that this one once again is not moving forward to just have a simple policy enacted uh by this council. So I just want to say that yes I agree that if we create a policy uh then it'll be question of who do we provide funds to and who we don't but perhaps we can help this uh nonprofits in different way uh raising awareness about the work they do right I did not know about this this nonprofit did today, right? So perhaps we can town can help them raise funds other way instead of us funding them directly.

So that is something to think about.

I love that idea.

Can I add to that?

I love that. Can can um at our events we are really good about inviting our um our uh different advisory committees to have tents and establish a presence and we have done it for some nonprofits. Can we make that maybe a priority to invite some of these nonprofits and I think we do to some extent

Kieran yes Kieran is at Dwali but I I like all our events um

that's a great idea

and that's another way to help um

the veterans

so we did at one time on our website we had a list of nonprofits we had a list

or am I making that up? I may be going way back. We used to um we used to share all kinds of information and um so that might be yeah I love

yeah I'm talking about more than just sharing the list like perhaps uh something along the lines of at every town event uh we have one or two uh nonprofits

we highlight

you know we have a booth for them or whatever and that would actually raise awareness the people would know about them and maybe that would be very helpful for them. I love that. And add on the fact that these are nonprofits that are doing work here and more so

and our comm's team can highlight every month one. Yes. So that way

social media and we can all help them promote them our social media. Yeah,

that's a great idea. I think we should put together a policy to create that opportunity.

Um guidance.

I wanted to add it. Well, I just wanted to add that um we have the small business listings directory, so having a nonprofit directory um would be good as well.

Any other questions?

Any other questions or comments?

Well, this concludes round table. Thank you. I would like to recognize the town manager. Like to recognize the town manager

super quick just we have made some adjustments. Sorry that's super loud. Um to the rolling calendar and I just want to make sure so your time with David Hacker related to my evaluation is now scheduled for September 22nd and October 13th. And obviously I think it's critical that all seven of you just wanted to touch base and make sure nobody has any conflicts with September 22nd or October 3rd. They're both regularly scheduled Tuesday meetings.

Wait, what?

September 22nd and October 13th.

Oh, 13th. I'm sorry. I thought I heard a different number. Okay. A different date. Sorry.

I thought he said third. Just want to make sure we're

these are both regular council meetings that you'll have a closed session during those two council meetings. Just occasionally folks have conflicts. Just want to make sure we have everybody anticipating being there.

Brandon, remind me why we are having our work session the first Saturday, first Thursday of this month.

Sorry. Why are we having

Why are we having our work session on September

10th instead of the last week?

Typically they're later in the month. That's

we do. And I think there was a conflict when we developed the calendar that there was something. Let me look. Let me get my stuff open.

Yeah. Because that has out that I will be out of town because I was always planning for No, it's next month.

September 10th.

I can look back. I apolog I don't recall tonight the specific.

Yeah, I get it. I just saw it because the idea was always the

Yeah.

You know, second

and again, we're um so Kayla is already working on the calendar for next year. Um, again, you should have information from her about January and early February, particularly about retreat because we'd like to get that settled as soon as practical because again, getting a lot of us together is not the easiest path to take. Um, so the sooner you can respond on that, the sooner we get you a draft calendar and we can get something adopted for calendar year 2027. But again, as long as everybody can be here September 22nd and October 13th, that will be incredibly helpful.

I don't have my phone. Would you mind texting out those dates so I can check my calendar?

Sure.

Thank you.

Anything else from council?

I one thing on the food waste pilot um appreciate everybody's support to investigate that and uh like that we got the the pilot in um you know for our food waste out there and I just want to say appreciate uh that support and also appreciate the the quick turnaround on that. Wonderful. Staff's doing a great job. Anything else for the good of the order, sir?

Nope.

I'd entertain a motion to adjurnn.

I move that.

So, Mayor Patm has the motion to adjurnn. Council member Patel second. All those in favor of adjourning, please say I.

I. Any opposed? And not that carries unanimously. 70. It is 8:40 p.m. Thank you.