Regular Town Council Meeting

one.

Okay.

Go ahead. Okay.

All right, good evening everyone. Welcome to the Apex Town Council meeting. I will call the meeting to order for Tuesday, March 24th, 2026. And I'm so glad that you're here. Also want to welcome those who join us by live stream via YouTube. All right, we'll go ahead and move right now into the agenda. Um, I want to read a statement, diversity statement. The town of Apex values and celebrates diversity and inclusion. We see diversity as a strength that binds our community together. Inviting members from different faith communities to deliver the invocation at the beginning of our council meetings supports this unity. Recognizing that not everyone practices the same traditions, we welcome you to have a private moment of silence. So, tonight, what I would like to do is have everyone individually stand up and tell us what you're grateful for.

[laughter]

Just kidding. We're going to do that on our own. If you would just take a moment and a pause and and just reflect on what you're grateful for. I'm grateful for this town, my colleagues, um all the members of this community. I'm not grateful for the pollen. I will tell you that. But find something that you're grateful for. So, let's take a brief moment of pause and do that. Thank you so much. We're now moved to the pledge of allegiance. And I would like to call on our town manager, Mr. Vosberg, to lead us in that pledge. Sir,

I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Mr. Bossburg. All right, we move now to announcements and petitions by the governing body. We'll start with Mayor Pro Tim. Good evening.

Uh, good evening, mayor. Good evening, everybody. Uh I have three things I

wanted to mention tonight uh that's been going on. The first um I'm the representative for the environmental advisory board. We had a meeting since our previous meeting. Uh and I just want to report back. Um one of the things that happened is we formed several subcommittees. They actually divided up themselves. And for those who don't know, the EAB is a citizen advisory board. It's made up of 11 uh residents around town from various areas. Um so there are five people on a new data center subcommittee. There are three people on a new tree subcommittee. And there are three people on a new B subcommittee to to help meet our B city and our tree city designations. And so those meetings will will have go forward. Um, the next thing I want to mention to to my colleagues, I uh mentioned this to some of you over email is I'm looking to bring forward a resolution uh and on our birthday to help Apex become a paperless city uh which would direct the town various departments and we're working on the language. Uh but the idea is to you know convert some processes that we can to paperless when possible with certain caveats that's in progress. So uh be on the lookout for that. And the last thing I was just reminded of a couple seconds ago, uh Arno and I had a meeting with some community members about uh the trains going through town. Maybe we'll talk more about that, but you know, I just want to say it's something we're actively looking at working with CSX about ways to address uh and mitigate the impacts on our residents uh going forward. Communication has happened, will continue to happen. We know it's an issue and it's something that we're uh we're concerned about and working on. So that's all. Thank you, Mayor.

Okay. Thank you so much. Uh Council Member Ziggerman.

Sure. Uh my first update is uh I met so I'm the representative on the multimmoal transportation advisory board. Uh traditionally this board has been focused on uh walkability, bikeability and public transit in town. We had a work session with with this group two weeks ago. Uh we explored kind of the strategic objectives of the board for 2026 going into 2027 and potentially increasing the scope to include all modes of transportation. So include things like road design to make you know to improve bikeability and walkability around town. Uh so number of takeaways

from that uh from that session that staff is now uh analyzing for for the team. But very productive work session. It was the first time that I think the uh the board did a work session of that kind to really set their uh their scope and priorities. Again this is a volunteer advisory board made up of residents. Uh so we really appreciate their their input in uh in the policy making around town. Um and just to jump on uh Mayor Port's update about CSX and and the trains. Uh this is something I've been working on for a little while. Um it doesn't affect a whole uh a large number of people, but certainly those people that live in and around the downtown area do get a very bit of nuisance from the trains that are parked overnight and left idling. So, we've been working with CSX to look at sound mitigation options, you know, potentially other uh parking locations for these trains to get them a little bit further removed from residential um you know, areas. Um but the hopeful longer term solution to move this this little depot out of a little bit further out of town [snorts] um and mitigate the uh the nuisance entirely, but you know, that's a longer range plan. We're still working on on all of that. So, those are my updates. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Councilman.

All right, Council Member Moo.

Um, not much new, but I want to extend heartfelt appreciation to the Apex Youth Council and our incredible town staff for organizing such an such a successful career event last Saturday and look forward to many more great events in the future. Thank you everyone. Yeah,

thank you for that report.

All right, council member Ree,

I think that's a good segue. Uh, Council Member Mood, the uh, Apex Youth Council CareerFare was great. Um, it's so great to see so many folks come out and ask

great questions. I was really impressed. Um the other two quick updates. Uh one I wanted to say that uh I had the privilege of joining uh about two dozen um Wake County leaders uh at the Habitat for Humanity of Wake County build day for uh the organization's 1,000th affordable home. Um and it was uh a really fun day. uh got to play around with power tools and use a hammer and do all sorts of things and uh didn't injure myself. So, that was great. It was a it was a it was a ball. Um and then lastly, I wanted to compliment um town staff uh and all of the businesses downtown um for the Shamrock Showdown this past weekend. Um encourage everybody to continue supporting your downtown businesses um and uh look forward to more events like that. That's completes my updates. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman. All right, transitioning right into you talk about downtown business. We celebrated a new business coming into town today just past Common Grounds. It's called Popover Cafe and uh they have Turkish tea and a lot of good desserts. It's delicious. Did y'all hear me? A lot of good desserts. So, we had the ribbon cutting today. Um we're thankful for the Apex Chamber of Commerce for uh hosting us and so Mustafa and his team. It's going to be a great thing for Apex. So, we also have the new um Apex Chamber of Commerce executive director in the house as well, Mara. I mean, I'm sorry, Darla. Darla Bryant. Appreciate you being there. All right. One thing I do want to share um something that has continued to come up in the community and uh I I've shared this with my colleagues. Um it's with yard waste. We made a decision back during the um February meeting that was a um a a meeting of us working together um our annual retreat and one of the

things that came up was grass clippings and we made a decision to discontinue grass clippings. Now that has obviously moved a lot of people in a different way and uh one of the things I do want to recommend I'll share this again with my colleagues. the decision has been made. Um, but I would like for us to get public input prior to moving forward with the full implementation. I think that would be a great thing for the community to get that feedback um before we move forward. So, I've shared that with my colleagues and uh manager Vossberg as well. So, I look forward to the response from them. So that completes my report and we move now to adopting the meeting agenda and town staff has requested the removal of RA1 Peak City Land Trust appointment of organizing board of directors. The desire is to defer that until April 14, 2026. That's the only thing I have noted on my copy. Is are there any other recommended changes hearing? None. Is there a motion? Move to approve with that change.

Mayor Pro Tim second. Ziggerman.

All in favor say I.

I.

Opposed. Motion carries.

Move now to the consent agenda. Are there any recommended changes for consent agenda before approval?

Hearing none. Is there a motion?

Motion approved.

Motiony.

Second.

Second. Zerman. All in favor say I.

I.

Oppos. Motion carries. mail to manager's report.

Yes, sir. Good evening, mayor and council members. I do have a little it's not too lengthy, but a a robust report this evening. Uh I think I'll start with maybe the the fun items first and then we'll end with the more serious items. Uh so I'm going to start with special events. Springtime's here. We've got a number of events. check out our our

website parks and recck and speci specifically one of them is going on right now as we speak so at 6 and 6:45 was the ultimate dog egg hunt right now it's in the Apex Nature Park uh 6:00 p p.m. and 6:45 so a fun one for uh maybe a non-traditional egg hunt that you can bring your pets to. Uh the next is an extreme flashlight egg hunt and that is actually tonight at 8:15. That's in Apex Nature Park. That's for kids aged 10 to 13. Grab your flashlight, search for candy filled eggs. So, good time there. And it's not too late to run out after this meeting and get to that egg hunt. Uh and then the the last two I have the Apex Bunny Trail egg hunt is Saturday, March 28th from 900 a.m. to 11:15 a.m. and that's at Seagro Farm Park. Uh registration is required for that. Uh then we've got the Peak City Pigfest coming up. That'll be Friday, April 10th from 5 to 10 p.m. Saturday, April 11th from 11:00 a.m. to 900 p.m. And that is here at the Town Hall campus. Uh so some exciting events. Uh we do have a closure coming up for um Good Friday. That'll be Friday, April 3rd. That town hall will be closed. Okay, now getting into some of the less fun items. Uh, still cool meter update. Approximately 12,000 electric meters have been replaced. Uh, so I think it it goes up about a thousand per report. So we're well on our way to accomplishing that by the fall of this year with our electric meters. Uh, things continue to trend well with that replacement. Uh, have a very very high success rate on on those meters being put in. Uh, next item, the peak plan 2055. This is exciting. Public forum number two of how should we grow from here will be tomorrow. So Wednesday March 25th and that's from 4 to 7 PM and that is here in town hall as well. Uh

and the recommendation is you can drop by anytime in that 4 to 7 but try to get there before 6:30 because there are a few activities that you do. So if you get there after 6:30, you probably won't be able to finish those activities. Uh this is another exciting one. Sigma Healthcare has selected the town of Apex as a recipient of their 2025 gold level healthy workforce designation and that is for demonstrating a strong commitment to improving health and vitality of our employees through a workplace well-being program. So I want to congratulate our wellness committee that we have in place. Also Courtney Jones who's our benefit and wellness manager uh did an excellent job on that and that's the level. Absolutely. [applause] We've put a lot of emphasis on taking care of our team and this shows the commitment to being gold level through through six basically. All right, last two items. I got utility billing and yard waste I wanted to talk about. So, let's start with yard waste. The mayor already brought that up. I've got a couple of um things that I can also suggest. Uh first I'll start with one we didn't talk about and there's starting March 30th. There's a replacement that's going to start occurring of upping our recycling bins from 65gallon to 95gallon. Um that's driven by a good thing that our capacity we need additional capacity in our community. Uh people were filling up the 65gallon cans. So we're working with GFL as we uh to replace those and upgrade them to the larger 95gallon cans. It'll start kind of slow. We've got neighborhoods. The the cans have already been issued to to new residents in some cases. So, we're going to finish out those neighborhoods where the new cans are being issued. And then, uh, as we go, we'll do our public campaign to let you know, hey, we're coming to your neighborhood in the coming weeks. So, it'll start to roll out. They're doing approximately 50 carts per day. Uh, so you can imagine it's going to take us a while to do that. Uh, but it's a great upgrade we believe service enhancement that we're bringing to our residents on that front. So, that's recycling. Next is uh yard waste. And as the mayor mentioned, it

was in the February 26 council retreat that we did receive direction uh to proceed with um a couple of things. One of those was the discontinuation of grass collection. Uh primarily because there is a not really a a lot of choices uh for continued um places to take that grass. So, we're struggling with um we don't want to all of a sudden pull that from our residents because that location that we take it to stops. Um but that is the potential. So, we're trying to to plan ahead on what that glide path looks like. So, while we did get direction from council, it wasn't do it on this date. We kind of said fiscal year look at the start. Uh we've talked about the grow season of of when we should discontinue. So, what our plan at this point um and taking into account what the mayor has has mentioned. Uh we've are asking our public works and comm staff to come on the 14th and make a presentation about what we've designed since we met with you all at the retreat. Uh so talking about this is a potential timeline. These are some issues that we ran into. Uh really July 1st is not the date we're anticipating to stop it. That's when we would start the program and kind of phase in into it. So it'll be a several month phase in. Uh so we'd like to talk to you about that on the 14th. We'd like to talk to you about the public education campaign that we're going to conduct on the 14th. Uh then in looking at uh at some point in the future we would have to bring an adoption of an ordinance. And so if we did on the 14th that presentation, then we could if depending on what council direction is, look at the 28th meeting and incorporate some kind of public piece there. Um it could be a separate meeting, it could be surveys, it could be through different events, however you you want to direct us. But there's opportunity for the April 28th meeting to be that space where you could invite in. So after we present publicly on the 14th, invite in on the 28th. Uh and then we could prepare ordinance adoption depending on how that goes. Uh looking at May 12th, uh we would have as a backup May 28th. My recommendation though would be really to to pull it back to the May 12th. Uh because we're

starting to get into budget adoption potential on May 28th and then into June. And there are [clears throat] some decisions that need to be made that inform the budget. So, if we're going to get into this, no matter what the phase looks like, it could have budget implications that we would like to address to then present at the end of May in terms of the budget. Uh, so you've got some options should we choose to to go that path, but the intent right now is presentation on the 14th and then looking for an ordinance adoption sometime in May, hopefully at that May 12th meeting. Uh, and then you could have any time in between what that public input process would look like. Uh, we would take direction on that. Any questions before I go into utility billing? Okay, so utility billing. Uh we did have a couple of things pop up over the last I guess it's been four or five days now. Uh the cycle maybe started Friday for cycle 2 customers. So there are two things and this is information that's all on our website. We've also put information on our socials. Uh but I'm going to read to you from our our website some some items and you can look there for the most up-to-date information. So, what's occurred with cycle 2 is the bills that were posted in the portal, so not paper bills, but the portal posted bills, they had an incorrect due date. Uh, it sounds sounds easy and it's something that's definitely in our checklist going forward, but the the system prepopulated with the previous cycle's due date. And so, that's why the March 28th, it was for the other cycle that had been built. Uh, there are lots of reasons I won't bore you with as to why that's a manual input at this point. um because we do have to change that from time to time. But what happened is the cycle 2 bills got published to the portal with an incorrect due date. So we had people saying, "I just paid my bill and now I've got a second bill that's due this month." The actual due date for those bills is April 13th. Uh so published was March 28th. It's April 13th. Uh we are working with our vendor. I wish it's something we controlled where we could just go flip a switch and it changes the dates. We have to go through our vendor. We've submitted that ticket to change those dates. They are working tirelessly

to get that done. So we have no doubt it'll it'll happen in the coming days. Uh we are also working to change the um autodraft to that April 13th date. Uh so those are the two things that should be reflected in the portal hopefully soon. Uh so the auto deduct date will be the April 13th and then the actual due date is April 13th. The second item that we have heard about uh relates to the the service days, the service period. Uh and it it is correct on the bills um that were published. It's 37 days in the billing period, which is a little bit higher than we would like to be. Uh we do anticipate that the when this cycle comes back around that it'll be a shorter time period. So the average for those two should be around where we like to be, which is the 30 days. So while this one's 37, the next one could be 23, 22, 24, somewhere around there. So the the two-month average for that cycle will be 30. Again, not ideal. We like it to be closer to the 30, not just an average of 30. Uh so we are putting some some steps in place on that. We had some some data processing delays that caused it to go to the 37-day [clears throat] period. Um but with that you will notice that your bill is higher for the period. Um hopefully if you take a look at your bill and look at it on a daily average, it should stack up and be consistent with your previous daily averages. If you do notice that you're out of whack on your daily average, we do encourage you to reach out to the town and we can we can look at that. There could be some other issues going on, but the most people will see a higher bill because it's 37 days versus what our typical is 30 29 days. We actually had a bill that was 24 days. So, if you're looking at that one going from 24 days to 37, that's 13 more days of electric use, water use, that's in that bill versus the 24 day. Uh so, two issues. One was the incorrect uh published date on the portal. Uh the paper bills are actually going to be correct when they go out. We were able to correct those before they were printed and distributed. So paper

bills will have the correct due date. The portal should be corrected with the due date and also with the auto deduct. And then the time period is in fact 37 days which will be in itself a higher bill for most people than you're used to. We good there? Okay. All right. And I think that that is all that I have. Thank you so much for more good information. Um Mr. Clerk. Uh thank you, Mayor Council. Um just three updates. Uh during the January 29th work session, you all may recall you allocated funds for a centralized public records request software program. And so just wanted to provide an update that we've got demos scheduled and we hope to have a recommendation no later than May 30th. Both software programs we're exploring offer the option for a public facing portal for requesters to track their request and we will be able to have a res records resident portal for um residents and anyone else town staff to be able to locate previously executed resolutions, ordinances, minutes, text searchable and those kinds of things. So, uh we are hoping that the same system can accomplish that. Um, in terms of our legislative updates, uh, most of you may have seen, um, the, um, Senator Senate, uh, President Pro Tim Phil Bergher has conceded and so that will shake up things in the Senate. U, we, uh, anticipate that that will change a lot of the makeup in the Senate, um, as we head into uh, the next calendar year. So, we're monitoring that closely and we've engaged with our lobbyist uh to make sure that we can stay in the loop um as it relates to that and how that's um progressing. Um and then our final update, we still have some advisory board vacancies. So, just want to encourage those uh residents who may be interested. Uh we have uh vacancies on our multimmodal transportation advisory board, our culture and arts advisory board um as well as our um one remaining on our planning board. So those are my updates.

Thank you so much, Mr. Cole.

Thank you.

All right, I do want to make one

acknowledgement I didn't um share at the beginning. Thank you, Officer Cornney, for being here. Apex PD for taking care of us. Thank you. All right, we move now to the public art moment quarterly and culture and arts moment first quarter calendar year 2026, Miss Taylor Ray.

Thank you.

Thank you, mayor and councel. This is Tom Cwell, the chair to the Apex Culture and Arts Advisory Board. And my name is Taylor Ray, liazison to the board and manager of the Halley Cultural Arts Center. Thank you for your support and for having us today for this quarterly public moment, public art moment, excuse me. Since this is our first public art moment with you, the board wanted to highlight something that reflects the growth and energy of our public art program, which is the Apex public art guide.

All right. So, uh yeah, again, thank you uh for the time today. So, the public art guide is a nice summary of the work that we've been doing over many years. So, uh we thought that would be a nice start to the public art moments. Um, outside of the guide though, there's been work that we've done with sound staff uh to encourage um uh different uh ordinances in the UDO and and other uh public art map and that type of thing to also encourage art by um private entities outside of the town. So, we have some of those featured in the guide as well. So, the guide you'll see is broken down into three parts. So, we have a downtown apex section, then um a section that's a little bit outside of downtown, and then an outer apex section. In each one has a map, and then inside is photos and some brief descriptions by the artists for the most part um of each piece of art that's featured, sculptures, murals, this type of thing. So, I hope everyone enjoys it. I do want to thank the uh town staff. So Taylor's been tremendous and is Kendall Hart um amazing in pulling together the

guide and also Susan Curley who's here from the culture and arts board who was really a spark behind this and helped all along the way as we put this thing together. So again, hope everyone enjoys it. You'll also see in here in the uh back of the guide um the uh references to the bus stop uh art and then also the sculpture walk uh which um doesn't have the photos of the pieces because they change every year and as a little public service announcement that is happening right now. So they are vanishing around town right now in u this month and then they'll pop up like daisies in the springtime uh in April. So by midappril we'll have a new slew of um uh sculptures uh around town so you can enjoy that walk as well. So again enjoy the guide and uh thank you for giving us a couple time a couple minutes to speak here today.

Appreciate it.

Excellent. [applause]

All right. Any any comments from council? Any questions? Thank you so much. This is fire. Appreciate everybody's contribution. Thank you folks. Yes. Thank you. Okay, this is the time we want to hear from the community. This is your opportunity. We're going to be calling on individuals on the list during our public forum. You have three minutes to speak. Everyone here tonight has signed up for three minutes. So, um again, we look forward to hearing from you. So, we'll move right into it. Uh Rosemary Doss, if you would please come up and give us your name and address. Good evening. Rosemary Sonutsky Daws, proud activist residing at 5128 Beckwick Drive, Fugwave Arena. This is a tale of two greens. Those of us who've lived here enjoy the beautiful land and natural resources. We love our green. From campaign slogans and logos, we thought you loved our green, too. But you seem to be s signing a different tune after taking office.

Apex has been winning the Wake County sprint to cut down most trees. So I think what you really love is this screen. At a recent economic development work session, you revealed contempt for the people you're supposed to serve, labeling us negative resident activists.

[snorts]

I will not name names at this time, but you know and we know who you are. Therefore, I challenge you to con to correct in writing misinformation we've shared at public forums. This is important because you came close to calling us liars. And after thousands of staff hours spent researching hyper scale data centers, can you report just one true benefit this brings to our community? Also, thanks for clarifying to us dumb bunnies how all this change and explosive growth is good because you would provide the infrastructure, sewers, etc., but can you manufacture more water? Also, great to know it's not your policies that are objectionable. It's the messaging that needs improvement. Yeah, that's it. For someone directing economic development to lament the lack of more land to ravage and then expressing concerns our negative activism will harm Apex's reputation is unbelievable. If you continue with this metastasis-like overdevelopment and throw in a hyperscale data center, your constituency will suffer significant health problems, rolling brownouts along with exorbitant energy bills, water shortage rationing, and devaluation of personal property. That will flush apex reputation down the toilet. You will be responsible and held accountable. We've just been sounding the alarm. I've lived in Wake County for almost 45 years. I am sad and infuriated to see

municipalities become almost like pimps for developers. That's right, I said it. Oops. Was that negative? Despite your initiatives to plant a tree, hire urban foresters, and clean a creek, you are still destroying too much of our green. So I urge all residents to follow this screen the money. That's all for today. Happy Easter. Happy Passover.

Thanks for speaking tonight. Thank you

Dr. Michelle Hoffner Okconor.

Good evening everyone. Dr. Michelle Hoffner Okconor, 2664 Jordan Boulevard. So when I spoke back in October, I spoke about criteria air pollutants coming from data centers and how they're harmful to our health and our community. I actually ran into Brett shortly after the meeting who wanted to let me know that the current regulations for fine particulate matter were subject to change. You know, he worked for he works for the EPA, so of course he's aware of this. That lawsuit to vacate the strict uh fine particulate matter um limits was filed in November. Meanwhile, the federal government is declining to enforce other regulations the EPA is meant to be regulating to ensure our clean air. They have more or less vacated the 100h hour rule for generators by asking data centers to run them during the cold weather this past winter, which basically makes [snorts] non-emergencies suddenly emergencies. And we know that states are starting to roll back their water standards in order to accommodate the sludge that data centers are flushing out of their uh cooling towers. So with all of that in mind, how do we write a UDO when the regulations that define some of the things we really need to be able to rely on are moving targets? It seems very challenging to rely or to

be able to create standards that keep my community, everyone else's communities and home safe. um when we can't ensure that what we write today is going to be true a year from now, we could say, "Yeah, a tier 4 generator is fine." But if that tier 4 generator is no longer subject to a restriction on the the amount of hours it's allowed to run, well, it's no longer fine. The emissions will exceed the standards that we have set within this country. And by the way, just to remind everyone, there's no such thing as a safe fine particulate matter level for human health. Um, so regulatory standards don't necessarily match health standards. So what I'm here asking today since I can't attend EAB meetings, it conflicts with the standing meeting I have is that um, as our planning department and our environmental advisory board consider different aspects of data centers over the next year, one of the things they really need to integrate in are the state and federal existing policies. what's subject to change, what's already changing, and how those changes are going to affect the decision-making process. This isn't just about creating a UDO. This is about risk management. This is what we've been dealing with this entire time, what we've been talking about this entire time. So, I think it only makes sense to integrate that into these presentations as they move forward. And I hope that will be taken into consideration. I hope everyone in here will enjoy the local, i.e. vicious fishes since it just reopened today. um and that you'll throw them some support as well. So, thank you.

Thank you for speaking tonight, [applause]

Don Kazalino. Don Kazalino, 3632 Bosco Road. Good evening. I want to reference the Lego movie because it helps frame what

residents are experiencing. So in the film, the world appears to run perfectly. Um, as the Lego people are told what to do by instruction manuals, the villain villain in the film is President Business who communicates everything is working as it should reinforced by the song Everything is awesome. Here's the connection and our community residents are hearing that everything is fine. The growth is managed, infrastructure is keeping up, and even utility billing is fine two years later. But the facts tell a different story. Everything is awesome. Here's the key distinction. Records are facts. Messaging is communication. records, traffic studies, level of service reports on roadways, budgets, consent agendas, public emails, documents, phone logs, etc. show what is actually happening. Messaging, what is said by the city of Apex, at meetings, on social media, and in public statements is how those facts are presented. Those two things must align. Fact one, under North Carolina law, each of you took an oath to act in the best interest of the public. Fact two, public records are not being provided as promptly as possible under NCGS chapter 132. How can we see the facts? How can the public verify completeness

of the record responses too? This creates a direct conflict between what is communicated and what is verified. Fact three, the Welch Homestead PUD scheduled for hearing tonight in rural Wake County represents a major trip to high density development. Your own traffic analysis shows it's going to add almost 3,000 vehicles a day onto old US1, a single lane NC do road with no shoulder and it's going to be operated at a service level of a F which is a failed roadway and we see that all along Apex within Apex and it's coming out to uh a new hill township near you. This is not protecting the people. So the question is simple. Are we doing is everything working? Is everything awesome?

Thank you.

And are you doing your job? Thank you.

Thank you for speaking [applause]

George Hogan.

Members of council. George Hogan 2140 Victoria Lane. Uh I was here last month as well and as I said last month I voted for each and every one of you. Sometimes two times as we discussed last uh meeting. Apex is the top 10 town. Great neighborhoods, greenways, strong schools, small town vibes. That is the story the town tells itself and I believe in it. Which is exactly why I'm standing here tonight. Because while we're celebrating what Apex is known for, this council approved a contract for a network of surveillance cameras. Two times, actually, 23 and again in 25 2-year deal, 72K. The system is called Flock Safety. Most residents have no idea that it exists. And I think they need to know exactly what it is and

deserve to know what it does. So, I want to read some quotes from the chief of police from the January 29th working session. When asked where the cameras are placed, he said, "I don't disclose locations." On whether they stay put, well, they can be fairly easily moved. On what the system does, he said what the system does on a very simplistic level is it takes a picture of the back of a vehicle and then stores it. Except on Flock's own FAQ, it says a camera takes 6 to 12 images per vehicle per pass. Last night I was taking my kids to gymnastics, a six-minute drive. On that drive, Apex Police and Flock photographed my car 50 times. 50 times. Those images now run through a database. The feed is searchable, AI assisted. When asked what happens if another uh agency requests it, the chief said, "Well, there's not a lot of teeth to it." And how long they keep it? He said, "I would love for it to be 90 days instead of 30." 30 days is already the current retention policy. He wants more. Those are his words, not mine. And this council approved it. No independent evidence, no enforceable limits, just a signature. No independent data, no source numbers, just anecdotes and appeals to legality. For a surveillance system, that is not enough. This is the police auditing the police. For a searchable AI surveillance database, that's not oversight. That's theater. And consider this. Flock's own CEO called citizen privacy advocacy groups terroristic organizations. So the people asking the questions in his mind are the terrorists, but the people photographing your car 50 times while you're bringing your kids to gymnastic, those are supposed to be the good guys. And then there was this. Before anyone even pressed him on it, the chief was already citing the Fourth Amendment unprompted. That is not how someone talks when they're confident that the public feels good about what they are hearing. That is how someone talks when

they know the plain English version sounds worse than the legal version. The standard for Apex cannot be is this technically legal. The standard has to be is this wise? Is this necessary? Is this who we are? The contract comes up for renewal in January 2027, 10 months from now. Demand independent evidence, build enforcable limits, and hold an open hearing on the renewal. If it doesn't if the evidence does not materialize, do not renew it. Thank you. Elizabeth Stit.

Elizabeth Stit, 3113, Mayor and Town Council. Good evening. So, at the last town council meeting, I listened to about 45 minutes of conversation about where residents wanted to have some say in the UDO. And I kept hearing, "Trust the process. Trust the process. Trust the process. I have been showing up for four years because I see the process gives us bad outcomes. So, let me just go back in history a little bit for you. So, if the process had worked, then the Sweetwater community would not have had to come here for over a year requesting that the speed limit on Richardson Road get dropped from 45 to 35 because 45 going through their neighborhood was not safe. It took Brandon Jones with North Carolina DOT to come out and acknowledge that yes, it would not be a problem to reduce the speed limit to 35 when they took over the road. I saw months and months of Sweetwater residents coming to town council because they wanted a second gate on the dog park so that dogs would not slip out of the gate and be hit by a car because that happened in their community. I look at Friendship Road in Old US1. I

was told we would never get turn lanes. We would never get a stoplight. I actually went and pulled back the email. So, I stood at the end of my driveway, did a fixed friendship road petition. I gathered with the mayor who got me with DOT. I submitted my petition to DOT and lo and behold, we ended up with a traffic study and where you only have to qualify for one warrant to get a stoplight. We got three warrants. We qualified three times. But yet social media was saying, "Oh, you know, a post from a council member put out that, oh, we can't do anything in the ETJ." That's not true. Not true at all. So pulling all the information together from Pleasant Park where the town was obligated to do turn lanes at the intersection as a part of the zoning, combining what was being required from the summit, gathering the road improvements that Holly Springs and the money that they owed that our town had no clue about because there were no conversation. working with DOT doing the traffic petition. We now have turn lanes that are actually had lines as we speak today and even without the stop light is amazing how much those turn lanes have already helped. So no, we cannot trust the process when we see over and over and over how the process fails and hurts our daily lives. The traffic is horrendous in Apex. Doesn't have to be this way. So fix the process and then maybe we'll trust the process. Thank you.

Thanks for speaking [applause] tonight,

Terry Gley. Good evening everyone. Tonight, I'd like to continue the conversation surrounding

data, but not the infrastructure, but the information being used to guide our decision-making. As a resident of Jordan Manners, we have initiated many traffic calming study, including one for Horton Ridge Drive in New Hill. And historically, the outcome to each of these studies has been the same. There is not enough data to justify preventative measures like traffic lights, crosswalks, so we remain reactive instead of proactive. Meanwhile, Horton Ridge Drive has expanded significantly. It now stretches from MUI Olive Road through multiple developments, too many of which I can name in the short amount of time I'm given. Horton Ridge Drive now includes a new extension connecting perpendicularly to Horton Road. Traffic volume has increased and so have the risks. But we're waiting for data. So what does that really mean? Is it going to take a child being struck crossing New Hill Chapel Road on a bike or e scooter because it appears that the greenway is on the other side? But it's [clears throat] starting to sound like this is what might actually happen. And it's not just volume, it's behavior. Every single day, construction vehicles speed down Horton Ridge Drive at excessive rates. I walk my grandson daily. I can tell you many, many have no visible identification, logos of any sort to report to the police department. Some appear to lack license plates, thus probably insurance. and they're often carrying unsecured ladders and equipment that pose serious dangers to us, the drivers on that road. This is not a hypothetical concern. It is happening right now. As this roadway continues to function more like a speedway than a neighborhood street, I want to

personally go on record because if we wait for the data that is being asked for, it will come and it will come at a cost. I urge you each to take a ride down Horton Ridge Drive, especially around 5:00 on a weekday, and see what the residents are experiencing firsthand. We shouldn't have to wait for an incident to prove what's already very clear, and I appreciate your time and your interest. Thank you.

Thank you. Before you leave, can you just give your address for the record?

You know, I mayor, I have to tell you, I put it on the sheet.

That's fine.

And I'm not comfortable since you televised this. If somebody disagrees with my stance or my opinion, I live in Jordan Manners and I live in New Hill for anybody who really wants to know, but I really feel uncomfortable with that when I'll give you my license, you know.

No, you're good. Thank you.

All right. I I do appreciate that.

Thank you.

Thanks for your understanding.

All right.

[clears throat]

So that's the last name I have on the signin sheet. So we'll go ahead and close public form. Thank you everyone who came out to speak tonight. It's important that we hear from you and uh we'll move on now to the next part of the agenda. We have proclamations, special presentations. We have two proclamations tonight. So as we always do, I'm going to ask my colleagues to go down and we're going to read the proclamations and officially present them. All right. All right, the first proclamation is Autism Acceptance Month and we're happy to have our guest here tonight and

kicking us off for this proclamation would be Council Member Ree. Thank you, sir. [clears throat] Whereas National Autism Acceptance Month, observed each April, is dedicated to moving beyond awareness toward fostering acceptance, inclusion, and meaningful participation for individuals with autism in all areas of community life. And

whereas autism spectrum disorder is a lifelong neurological and developmental condition that influences how individuals communicate, interact socially, process sensory information, and experience the world with each person's strengths, needs, and abilities being unique. And

whereas autism affects people of all ages and backgrounds with current estimates in indicating that approximately 1 in 31 children and million and millions of adults in the United States are on the autism spectrum. And

whereas the town of Apex recognizes the importance of providing inclusive and accessible programs and services including specialized recreation recreation offerings such as adaptive fitness classes, social programs, field trips, life skills opportunities, inclus inclusive sports opportunities, and community events designed to support individuals with autism and other disabilities. And Whereas the son of Apex remains committed to cultivating a welcoming and inclusive environment where individuals with autism are respected, supported, and empowered to live, learn, work, and play as valued members of our community. [clears throat]

Now therefore, A, Jacqu K. Gilbert,

mayor of Apex, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim the month of April 2026, National Autism Acceptance Month in the town of Apex, and encourage all residents to recognize, celebrate, and support the contributions, abilities, and voices of individuals with autism signed this 24th day of March. And I would like to call up the following people. if you would just come up. Emily Saunders, recreation program specialist. All right, [applause] that's right. We also have Ally Pleski, senior center manager, McCall Burns, program support specialist, [applause] Nick Feller, Ben Mckllen, Ryan Clute, Jana Sony, Nick Sedo, Chandler Meshwwork, Riley Darden, William Matthews, and Jacob Mcgruz. If you would come up and accept the proclamation. [applause] Thank you for having me. right here.

We're going to

come over here. We're comfortable with Last one. Two. All right. Very good. Thank you. [applause] [cheering] [laughter]

Another round of applause, PLEASE, FOR YES. [applause] OKAY, WE MOVE NOW TO the second proclamation. We have National Volunteer Month 2026. Council member Moo. Whereas National Volunteer Month has been celebrated annually since 1974 as an opportunity to show appreciation for the millions of individuals who serve in various volunteer roles in our nation and for the positive impact they have. And

whereas volunteerism is a vital part of the town of Apex, strengthening bonds between neighbors and organizations, fostering civic engagement, and addressing the needs of the community. And whereas the town's volunteer base spends all ages from elementary school students

to senior citizens creating an inclusive community where individuals of all ages and abilities can contribute their time and talent in a variety of meaningful ways. And whereas the town of Apex is proud to offer numerous volunteer opportunities including town park and trail maintenance and beautifification, citizen advisory boards, the community emergency response team, citizens assisting police and Apex, the Apex youth council, and much more. Whereas the town of Apex encourages residents to learn more about the town's volunteer opportunities by visiting www.apexnc.org/vunteer and consider joining us in working together to make our town better.

Now therefore, I Jacqu K. Gilbert, mayor of Apex, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim the month of April 2026, National Volunteer Month in the town of Apex, and offer my sincere thanks to all of the volunteers who contribute their time and effort to opportunities and organizations that make Apex a better place. On the 24th day of March, and if you would please come up and accept the proclamation. Ellison Lambert, volunteer coordinator for town of Apex. Megan Russian, recreation program supervisor for senior programs. Absolutely. [applause] And then we have Terry Edwards, Mary Blford, Deborah Robert, Eric Widerman, Don Hassinger, Mark Blackford, and Lorraine Beni. Please come up and accept the proclamation. [applause]

on the call. I did not squeeze. Do

you want to do them in the middle and you'll kind of outline?

Yeah.

There we go. Can we all just take a a side step just this way a little bit? Yeah, that's not right. Come on.

Little bit more [laughter] to be fun. There we go.

Shimmy. [applause and cheering] No. [laughter] All right. Thank you everyone for coming out to receive the proclamation. We'll move now to our public hearings.

Thank you.

Good, sir.

Oh, I'm good.

Okay. All right.

Appreciate it.

Yep.

All right. We'll start with public hearing. Annexation number 805, Welch Homestead, presented tonight by Bruce Venal. And that's also public hearing, too. Goodbye. Good evening, Mayor Council. How are you today?

Great, thank you. How are you

doing? Well, thank you. All right, so uh the first annexation before you today is for three parcels located in the southwest region of the town of Apex's planning jurisdiction with near New Hill. Uh three parcels accumulating approximately 83.5 acres of property located here. You can see it's to the east of uh New Hill, all of Chapel Road and just north and partially south of uh Old US Highway 1. This uh annexation is to receive town services and also as part of a reasonzoning. Again, I'll go through the resoning process next and just ask that you make your motion after I finish the pro the presentation.

All right. Uh so [snorts] for you today is a threezoning case 25 CZ10. Uh the project for this is Welch Homestead PUD. Uh the applicant is Lenar, Carolina. Um you can see here as we mentioned before this is located in the southwest region of the plane jurisdiction of Apex with near New Hill. Again it's approximately 83.83 acres. Um again as I pointed out before mentioned that most of the site is east of New Olive Chapel Road at these parcels here with some portions just south of Old US Highway 1 and the railroad there as well. Um there's portions of that that are b it's also biseected by streams and mainly contains single family dwellings, accessory buildings and most all parcels are either moderately to heavily wooded in the area. Current zoning district, this is currently outside our planning jurisdiction. So this is in Wake County and the current zoning here is the Wake County residential 40 watershed zoning

district. Um if this were to be reszoned, we would it's requesting the reszone be to the plan unit development conditional zoning district. So should this be approved, this would again change on the zoning map here to match the other previously approved plan unit development conditional zoning projects. The 2045 land use map has this area designated as medium density residential, medium density resident, res residential/commercial services, park, public or private. You can see that this portion here of the parcel closest to New Hill all of Chapel Road is the one that has two stripes. the red being the commercial services, the the the light yellow being the medium density. When there's two colors, just as a reminder, that means it could be either or. It's when you see it with multiple more than two, that's usually when we want to see some type of mixed development there. But since this is one or the other, it's perfectly in line with the land use map to to be presented as medium density or as commercial services here. Should this be approved, it would automatically amend the uh the 2045 land use map to be medium density residential, park, public, or private. [snorts] So, we'll go over some of the some information of the uh of the project itself. Um, so they did hold their two required neighborhood meetings on May of 2025 and January of 2026. This project did receive a letter from the Wake County Public School System about the impacts to the school system itself. Uh the letter indicates that middle schools within the current assignment area for the resoning and development are anticipated to have insufficient capacity for future students at the middle school level where transportation to schools outside the current assignment area should be anticipated with possible long-term solutions including capping students out to schools with available seats, reassignments, or calendar changes as well. Um, additionally, there's some more details about the project itself. The maximum total units for the residential development is 270 units. This is a mix between um single family detached and single family attached or

town home products. There is a range that was provided as part of the PUTEX with varying degrees of uh numbers of each of these units ranging from 105 to 140 single family detached and then 115 to 150 town homes. Uh the site is broken up into different pods um and town home areas at the site. So, additionally, the just for your reference, the lot size that's being proposed is 500 5,000 for single family detached and 2,000 for the single family single family attached or town home product with an approximately uh 3.3 units per acre density. Uh the site itself will have uh will be buffered with 20 to 30 foot type B semi-opaque buffers around the perimeter. As part of the conditions, the applicant has proposed architectural controls. Um, these controls and standards that are being proposed are consistent with other recently approved PUSD in the area and they are they include but are not limited to such enhancements as limiting the use of vinyl to windows, trim, and decorative elements. Facade materials including brick, cultured stone, and fiber cement. Visible sides of the home on corners shall contain at least three decorative elements and more that have been provided as part of your staff report. additional um conditions that have been proposed. They will have access will be provided. Additional access will be a full movement driveway off of Old US1 to be the primary entrance for the development. There will also be roadway connections to the existing street subs of Jazzy Street and Pulsion Drive, Zeb Roadway, Red Bruff Road, and future planned um connections that will as part of the new Hill of Chapel Road assemblage, which was recently approved right here, which will connect with a crossing right here as well. Um, another condition that the applicant has proposed is temporary turnarounds. The applicant has provided a condition to provide a temporary turnaround in a fee in L for the removal of the temporary turnaround for sub streets that are not connecting to existing streets and o over 150 ft in length which is consistent with the North Carolina fire code. Additionally, the applicant um working with neighboring property owners has

proposed a condition that would uh for two properties specifically would would end the sub street 25 ft short of the property line in order to give them additional buffer and more privacy until that road is to be extended. The applicant is still willing to dedicate and provide fee and loo for those sub streets. Additional improvements include improvements to old US Highway 1, widen it to a four-lane median divided thoroughfare with turn lanes at the side entrance. There will be multimodal features as well, including a 5-ft sidewalk on both sides of all internal streets and a separate separated bike lane along Old US Highway 1. for the separated bicycle lane and 5ft sidewalk will be constructed on the north side of old US Highway 1 frontage um in line with the the four-lane thoroughfare section if approved pending approval from NC DOT and then a separate bicycle lane and reduced width 8ft side path will be constructed on the south side of old US highway 1 in accordance with the advanced Apex 2045 transportation plan pending NC DOT approval. Additional improvements will be made at New Hill all of Chapel Road and Old US1 intersection. And additional improvements will be made at the north, including a northbound right turn lane at New Hill Hollowman Road and Old US Highway 1. Uh open space requirements or resource conservation requirements. The site will dedicate 30% gross site area as recourse resource conservation area with an additional 5% for mass rating for any of the single family detached area of the site. Um, also there's a dedication for parks. The parks and recreation advisory board unanimously recommended land dedication with the provision that the final combination of land dedication, construction for credit, or fee and loo would be determined at the time of subdivision plan approval. And then another condition provided it qualifies for park dedication under the UDO. A portion of the subject site located south of Old US1 as labeled on the primary site/utility plan layout is proposed to be dedicated to the town for the use as a linear public park in accordance with the town of Apex's 2045 land use map and that would be this

portion here in green which is proposed as a linear park in the future. um as affordable housing condition. The applicant um as part of this submitt has proposed a minimum of 5% of total units committed as affordable housing at the 120% AMI and a 20-year term for purchased homes and 80% AMI for a 30-year term for rental units at full buildout. This would pro provide approximately 14 affordable housing units as part of this development. However, this 5% is inconsistent from the adopted affordable housing policy that recommends 10% of all units be designated as affordable. Because of this, the town's housing staff is not in favor of this condition. Moving forward, there are historic structures on the site. The site contains a house and a corn crib structure. Both these were evaluated by CAP. Uh, and it was determined that the house had not maintained its historic integrity. CAP does not recommend preservation of the house, but does recommend relocation and preservation of the outbuilding, which in this case is a corn grip to onsite. The structure shall be evaluated and relocated to preserve uh and preserved prior to master subdivision final plat environmental standards uh and conditions were also proposed as part of this project. The project was reviewed by the environmental advisory board and they provided a list of recommended zoning conditions. The applicant chose to provide an alternative list that includes some but not all of the original recommended conditions. The applicant's conditions include, but are not limited to such items as they shall install signage at uh one per sem waste and prohibit fertilizers and locations that are publicly accessible. Uh the project will ensure that 60% of the landscaping shall be native species, which shall provide diverse and abundant pollinator and bird food sources. The project shall install at least one pet station per 25 residential units throughout the community. No single species of native or adaptive vegetation shall constitute more than 20% of the plant material. The project shall select PL uh and plant only warm season grasses and a few more that were

outlined in your staff report. Um finally, the recommendation from the planning staff is approval of this conditional resoning. At the March 9th uh March 9th pling board meeting, the pling board did unanimously recommend approval with the condition that the applicant work with staff to update language regarding the selection and relocation specialist and the final location of the historic structure. The applicant is prepared to speak to this during their uh during their presentation and provide new condition that satisfies the desired intent of the planning board itself to speak on the consistency and reasonableness of this resoning. The proposed resoning to plan unit development is consistent with the town of Apex 2045 land use map which designates the subject property as medium density residential medium density residential commercial services park public or private. The land use map will be amended to change the medium density/commercial services designation to medium density residential to accurately reflect proposed development. The proposed PUD district support and implements these future land use designations by allowing coordinated master plan development pattern consistent with the town's adopted policy framework. The proposed resoning is reasonable and in the public interest and that it allows for residential development including affordable housing units that is compatible with established residential character of properties to the north west of the site. The development will support continued residential growth in area identified for such growth, providing additional housing opportunities in appropriate and planned locations. Furthermore, the resoning promotes compatibility with surrounding land uses and will contribute to the town's tax base, thereby supporting long-term fiscal sustainability and the provision of public services. The resoning will also improve the vehicle and pedestrian connectivity by connecting to roads within the existing friendship station in Wood Woodbury subdivisions providing a new connection to old US Highway 1. Uh, additionally, I did want to point out that some this

is the original language that was provided um with the assistance of CAP for the court crib um relocation and site selection that was provided to us and this was given to the applicant. the applicant has then forth gone forth and provided their own condition that they'll present to you here shortly with different wording so they can explain that. And lastly, we did receive um emails from public property owners that we've shared with you pre uh pre prior to this meeting. These comments range from concerns about roadway improvements, the desire for additional screening in the form of a fence or additional plantings and the overall structure and density of the project itself. um many of them have are here to provide input at the public comment as well and we may speak to you tonight as as as moving forward. With that, that's the end of the presentation. I may available to answer questions. The applicant in hearing has a presentation ready to explain their project to you as well.

Thank you so much, Mr. Minimal. Great presentation. Uh are there any questions for Mr. V minimal?

Okay. All right. Thank you. We'll now hear from the applicant. How you doing, Mr. Carpenter?

Good evening, mayor, members of council. Matthew Carpenter with Parker Poe, 301 Fateville Street in Raleigh. Here this evening on behalf of LAR, the developer and the builder. I've got several folks with me tonight, including uh Tucker Inis with LAR, Tyler Wilson with LAR, David Bergmark with McAdams, our land planner, and Nate Bowwin with McAdams, our our transportation engineer. Um, and so I appreciate the introduction from Bruce. This project is the Welch Homestead PUD, which he explained well. Um, the location is in the New Hill area just east of the intersection of New Hill, Olive Chapel, I'm sorry, New Hill, Hollowman Road and Old US1. Um, you can see the the surrounding neighborhoods that are existing, the the more rural uh properties south of Old One. Um and then

also some some planned projects at the intersection which I I think are important including the New Hill Commons PUD um which resoning was approved last year and includes grocery anchor retail. Um I understand they're they're planning to submit that site plan in the next couple months. So um I think that will be a big help here to to add some some grocery and non-residential uses to the area. Um the again the land use map designation Bruce went through um is medium density residential and and commercial services. And you can see that the land use map really views the the bulk of the intensity at the intersection um and then properties stepping down in intensity when you move uh west and east. And so our medium density designation is sort of that in between area. Um we did look at and evaluate the commercial designation uh but but we have very limited frontage and so commercial uses would would have been difficult to be viable here. Um and so we we're moving forward with a a residential project. Um the overall layout is is is uh meant to speak to the land use map designation. So, we've concentrated the town homes in the orange peachcoled area. Um, and then the single family in the yellow area, which obviously will be a lower density than the town homes. We're coming in right at 3.3 units an acre, which is well below the the seven units an acre that's recommended by the land use map designation. Um, and as Bruce mentioned, something that that you don't see in all of these cases, there is a a guaranteed range of town homes and single family. um which essentially operates as a minimum. So um so that ensures that there will be a mix of housing types here. Sometimes these projects are approved with which permits a use a mix of housing types but then they're developed as all single family or all town homes. We're trying to avoid that

here by by that condition. Um the corn crib that's been discussed uh we have that that building has been evaluated by CAP. Um we have worked with them on saving it. The condition currently states that it will be relocated. Um and and the questions from planning board at the planning board meeting were around uh whether we'll we'll record a preservation easement um on the relocated parcel and whether staff will review and approve where we're relocating it. Um and so we have a condition tonight that agrees to both of those things. it references the UDO um preservation easement and rehabilitation agreement requirement. And so we're proposing to follow all the UDO requirements for for relocation of the structure. Um and then the other one of the other larger issues that that came out of the planning board was the affordable housing discussion. Um, we we acknowledge that the the town's affordable housing zoning policy recommends 10% at 120% AMI for for sale units. Um, and LAR actually has a project on US64 that's that's referred to now as in his branch. That resoning was approved in 2021, I believe, and it was either the first or second project to commit to for sale affordable units in Apex. Um, that project is underway. it's under construction. Um, and LAR is is trying to understand how those units are going to be implemented and how they're going to find buyers for those affordable units. Um, and so when the condition was originally agreed to several years ago, we were under the impression that that, you know, we'd have some sort of staff assistance. Staff understandably doesn't doesn't have the the manpower to do that. And so they've directed us to DHIC. Um, we've had several conversations with DHIC which have been very helpful. Um, and DHIC essentially is concerned about

having available buyers at 120% AMI um, in in Apex because number one, the down payment assistance programs, many of them target 80% AMI and and that's a federal requirement for some of the programs. And then buyers at that income range have more flexibility. If they have a down payment, they have options. Um, and so we we regrouped from those conversations and said, um, you know, how can we how can we craft our affordable condition to uh effectively get buyers, affordable buyers in these affordable units because that's everyone's goal. Um, and that's our goal as well. And so because we were concerned about that, we had the condition at 5% at 120% AMI. Um what we've done tonight is we've lowered that to 5% at 80% AMI for the four sale units. And so to to add some context to that, I think the 120% AMI price would be around the high 400s, $500,000. the home maximum for sale price limit, which we we were proposing to follow for the 80% AMI, is 390,000. Um, and so it's it's more directly targeting that workforce housing band. Um, and and and we think will be more effective at uh finding buyers who are are involved in the down payment assistance program using DHIC's help um and other nonprofits if if we need to have them involved. Um, and then because again, even though we've lowered the AMI, which is a a bigger commitment than at 120% AMI, we we're also adding a donation to the affordable fund of $100,000. Um, and and that uh the goal there is to a lot of times we're having the conversation of is this the right area for affordable housing? I think it makes sense to have some units here um but also contribute to the town's fund to allow the ability and flexibility for those funds uh to be deployed closer to

town to buy land or build affordable units closer to goods and services. Um and then finally uh it's a little unusual but LAR has another reasonzoning up tonight. the the Camp Branch Lane project, that's a much smaller project. Um, but because of how the projects are underwritten, the land cost, etc., there's more financial flexibility in that project. So, as you'll hear me say in uh a few minutes when we get to that one, we're proposing a $250,000 donation in that case um for a total contribution from LAR to the fund of $350,000 in addition to the units at at 80% AMI. So, um, we're trying to target specifically affordability for that income range and and to achieve getting those units sold to affordable buyers. Um, and then finally, we do believe that that's the best option. It's the best plan to make this happen. Um, but if council's direction is that the the policy at 10% and 120% is is what you would prefer, we're open to hearing that, too. Um the this slide shows all the changes that we've made uh in in based on our discussions with neighbors, particularly folks along the eastern property line. Um and so we we've added throughout the case conditions to address specific concerns. We have wider buffers in in most locations, 20 ft when 15t is required. Um, we have the condition Bruce mentioned that stub streets will stop 25 ft short of the prop shared property line. The UDO requires them to be within 10 ft of the property line. And so, um, that results in a a cleared area in the perimeter buffer. And so, we're we're trying to to keep the buffer intact, but the rightway will go to the property line um so that that connection can be made in the future. Um, and then changes that we're proposing tonight are

shown in red. Uh, and those are changes since the planning board meeting. Um, we heard from folks that they wanted more of a physical barrier along the property line. Um, and so we've upgraded the buffer from a type B to a type A planting standard. Um, and that's in conjunction with some retaining walls that we have planned uh along the eastern property line. So the the goal is for there to be a retaining wall um and then our our homes will be on the low side, neighboring properties will be on the high side and then a type A buffer on top of the retaining wall to provide that physical separation to deter trespassing um and the the plantings for for vis visibility and to really um make an opaque buffer. Uh and so those are the proposed changes. Um and and then finally at the at the bottom of the screen, we've also added a condition that will provide a fence within 150 ft of each side of the substrate. Um I know one neighbor has had issues with another project dumping landscape debris, trash, and so we want to make that really difficult, if not impossible. And and one way we're doing that is through um fencing on each side of the stub street. So, uh, there will be no way to drive over to his property, dump anything. Um, and then the yards will back up to the retaining wall and type a buffer. Um, and then the the transportation improvements uh are shown on this slide. Um, I won't read through them all. I know Bruce went through several of these. The what I think is unique about this project is is normally the road widening uh is just half of the street because most projects only have frontage on one side. Here we have that small area south of old one that will be dedicated as a park. Um but because we have frontage on both sides, we'll build building the full section along our frontage. And so that's much bigger commitment than you would see uh in in in a lot of these cases where only half

of the ultimate section is being built. Um and then turn lanes at at the intersection. Uh the extension of the left turn lane on Old One is is based on the timing of New Hill Commons. Um they have some slated transportation improvements at the intersection. And then I know Gracewood does too. And so all of those are phased. Those TAs build on top of each other. Um and so some of those those those improvements are depending on the timing of other projects. If they haven't built it, we will. um if they have, we'll extend the the lane. Um so to to summarize, the project is consistent with the land use map. We're we're well below the density. Um which I think is helpful with some of the more rural properties to the east of us. Uh we've addressed neighbor concerns through a host of conditions. Um we have transportation improvements. We have supplemented the affordable housing profer. Um, and then finally, staff and planning board are recommending approval. So, with that, we request your approval. Thank you.

Thank you for your presentation. U, I just have one quick question for you. Um, I'll let them handle the affordable housing piece because I know it's coming.

Um, can you tell us how how tall will the retaining wall be and does that cover all both properties?

Yeah, it's it's for the the bulk of the property line. Um, it it won't be located in the riparian buffer obviously. Uh, I think on average it's between three and and 10 feet. Is that accurate, David? Yep. So, um, probably an average around six or seven feet.

Okay.

Yep.

Thanks.

All right. Questions, Mr. Carpenter.

I'll start. Um, so as I was preparing for this meeting and reading through the packet, I was uh excited about a couple things. Um, the

separated bike paths along Old US1. I don't think we've seen that elsewhere in Apex, and I appreciate uh getting a start on that. I was also excited to see 220 volt outlets in garages being standard, but that's kind of where my excitement stopped. Um, so I understand you've updated your affordable housing commitment. Um, you know, I've mentioned on more than one occasion that 120% AMI is really not affordable housing. So I appreciate that you know you and your client have recognized that and have lowered the AMI percentage to 80% but 5% is still you know somewhat anemic you know especially for a development of this size where you know there's a lot more capacity to absorb that uh that you know cost or lack of profit you know in in the overall development. So, I think that 5%, you know, from where I'm sitting is um is not sufficient and $100,000 donation is not going to make up for that. Um what I'm also not excited about is a long list of environment uh or environmental advisory board recommendations that have not been accepted. Um as a matter of fact, I think the only thing that has been accepted is petway stations and some signage around SEMs. everything else has been either declined or reduced. Um, you know, that's, you know, those recommendations are there for a reason. Um, and you know, seeing none of that reflected in your proposal really bothers me. Um, and then lastly, um, the loss of commercial space, right? like we don't have a whole lot of spaces in town, especially in this area of town, you know, where we can develop some services that u you know will contain um you know shopping locally, right? And and then avoid the residents having to drive into town for basic services,

right? There's not a whole lot of land that is um is planned for that. And so to see that being given up um I don't think is is a wise choice on on our part. So, with all that said, um I'm a hard no on on this one tonight.

All right. Thank you, Councilman. We're still in the questions at this point.

Oh, sorry.

Yeah.

Any questions for

um Okay. Yeah. Sorry.

Okay. Good.

All right. Any questions for Miss Carpenter? when we discussed and thank you again for the good presentation when we had a chance to meet I um talked about um the RCA and I understand that you said the 30% plus 5% can you walk me through that a little bit more

sure

that what's what forgive me what was that 5% again

yeah so so it's 30% of the gross site acreage is RCA and then there's a 5% uh 5% additional required for masquerading I believe for the single family and so so uh for the area that's single family an additional 5% of RCA will be required um and so I don't know yet what the the total will be but it will be between 30 and 35% the total RCA um so

so it's it's not a minimum of 35

it's a minimum of of uh 30% and then 5% extra for for mask masquerading the single family

and I just want to make thank you. I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly that that could lead to 35%. But there

it will be under that because it it'll be 30 it'll be 5% of the area shown in yellow.

Appreciate it.

Yeah. So

actually I did have one question. Uh it concerned this condition to upgrade the buffer type

y

to a and we talked about this a a little bit. Um

my concern was the upgrade of buffer type might require the clearing of mature trees that are otherwise wouldn't be cleared. Can you speak on whether that'll be the case here or not? Because

it it it it would not. So we've we've worked so our property years ago was was timbered and so there are young pine trees on a big part of it. Um and and actually Mr. Qualice was really helpful. He he sent several photos along the property line. Um, and there's a gap along the property line where the between, you know, where it was timbered and then where the the young pine trees started. And so for a lot of the property line, at least along his property and well and in the southern section for that matter, there's space between the mature trees on neighboring properties and then and then where the pine trees start on ours. Um and so after reviewing that the the type A made more sense. Um because that that is why we had done type B before was for that that same concern.

Any other questions?

All right. I would like to do this if colleagues are okay with Thank you, Mr. Carpenter.

Um can we hear from Miss Newman from housing department? Is that okay with you, Mr. Bossburg? Okay. All right. Cool. Good evening, council. Marla Newman, community development and neighborhood connections director. One of the things I'd like to highlight uh as it relates to the affordable housing profer. I think there may be some misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the 120% AMI. That is the maximum that someone can have as an AMI in order to meet our condition. It's not that it they must meet and only meet 120. 120 is the maximum. So I think that part really needed to be clarified and we'll make sure that we get with Mr. Carpenter as

well as with DHIC. We had reached out to DHIC to make sure we understood the nature of the conversation and it appears that there's a misunderstanding. So, I just wanted to clarify that the 120 AMI is our maximum that was set, not a requirement that it be 120.

Thank you.

Any other questions from M?

I I I would just want to react to that. Uh, understood. Right. But if you're planning on 120% maximum, your sales price that is being set is is based on that, right? So, somebody with an 80% AMI that would qualify like that that price point is now out of reach, right? And and so that's what that's why I think that you know look at it as as you know because it's it's what your your pricing is based on and that's why I think it's relevant even though the yes anybody with with a lower AMI can can technically qualify for that.

Right. There are different levels of down payment assistance that are available if you're 80% of AMI versus 120. But even with uh NCHFA uh they have a program uh where you can get down payment assistance and the maximum sales price on a home is 495,000. So there are different programs and I know DHIC accesses those on behalf of home buyers. So I think probably we maybe have some um misunderstanding about what our maximum allowed AMI is versus again just requiring that it's only 120%. So there's nothing that prevents any 80%. The issue there is just how much down payment assistance and what the maximum sales price might be for a person who is at 80% AMI based on the HUD regulations versus again NCHFA will allow up to 495,000 and still provide some down payment assistance.

Can I ask you specifically about the uh proposed um contribution to the affordable housing fund? Um,

have you heard about that before tonight? And specifically, could you tell me uh what's your personal opinion on the sufficiency of that uh versus an additional 5% of units or something?

Sure. Uh we had the discussion just yesterday and we are not in support of that because as I shared with Mr. Carpenter yesterday, we can't build a house for 300 or $350,000. Uh so uh while it's always nice to be able to have a contribution to the fund, we have to look at what is the actual outcome of that contribution. And at that level, there's not a lot that could make up for the loss of the number of units that we would otherwise uh be eligible to have.

Anything else? Anyone else?

Thank you.

All right. Thank you. Okay, we'll go ahead and open up the uh public hearing for this item for both one and two. And we'll hear from Mike and Marian. All right. Good evening. Uh my name is Mike Qualace. Uh, I reside at 3300 Whittingham Drive in New Hill. Uh, I'm also representing my mother, Marlene Kwallis, who lives at 3308 Whittingham Drive in New Hill. Our properties are located on the eastern boundary of the proposed Welsh Homestead development. Uh, I'd like to thank Mayor Gilbert and members of the council for taking the time to review our documentation, uh, learn about our property, uh, firsthand, and better understand the conditions along this boundary, as well as some of the challenges we continue to face from previous development. We truly appreciate that. Uh, we have continued engaged in conversation with the applicant and Parker Poe uh, who were helpful in providing some recent updates

to the plan. as they've mentioned, our understanding that the proposal now includes the type A buffer and potentially a retaining wall uh around along portions of the eastern boundary. Um I think these are meaningful and uh appreciated improvements. Uh but without seeing the plan the full plan, we remain very concerned about the integrity and security of our adjacent property. Uh the Welsh PD as mentioned was previous previously designated as forest land. and it was logged and clearcut almost 10 years ago, leaving only uh new growth pines as as was stated uh along that immediate uh boundary. So there's no mature vegetation or um understory present. Uh at approximately 3.3 homes per acre, the Welsh development uh represents a significant increase in density compared to our five and 10 acre uh rural properties. Uh I think on a map it's not quite uh correctly designated. It has it's in yellow which is medium density. We are clearly in a rural uh large acreage uh property neighborhood. Uh due to this transition lack of ex existing vegetation, we're asking for an increased functional buffer consistent with the environmental advisory board goal number 12. The introduction of a retaining wall may also present safety concerns. uh an abrupt drop off along an unmarked boundary could create a hazard, especially given the extensive walking trails that we've created through our property over the past 20 years. We believe a fence is still uh the most practical solution to establish a clear and enforceable boundary and may be required to ensure our safety uh particularly in areas with grade changes retaining and retaining walls. Uh we remain flexible in the style and design of uh said proposed fence as long as it serves as a functional boundary and is maintained by the developer. This also is applicable to the 3308 property line which will have some protection from the existing riparian buffer but will still require at least minimal fencing um in the exposed areas. We have already experienced what happens when a boundary is left undefined.

With the development to our north, the lack of physical boundary resulted in years of trespassing, a commercial dumping incident more recently, and littering on our property uh which is ongoing to this day. While we are still generally uh supportive of this development, we remain highly concerned about the potential impact to our home given the documented history where the design enforcement ultimately failed.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you,

Bri and Mike. Good evening. [snorts] Um, mayor, you started the night asking us to talk about what we're grateful for. And for me, it's our property. Um, my husband's home with our three boys tonight. Um, so we moved in um Labor Day, actually. We closed last August, so we missed the developer's first meeting um about this project. We did attend in January. Um, unfortunately, we didn't get the notice about the first public hearing. So, I watched online and I was in contact with the planning group. I think when new people come in after the project was initially submitted, um we didn't get the hearing notice. So, I did put together some um documentation, a script with some pictures of our property um so that you guys could see some of our concerns and I just want to walk through a couple of those points. Um so, we are at 3316 Whittingham. If I may move, we are on the eastern boundary. There it is right here. So, we're on the southernmost part of the eastern boundary. We own the acre and a half south of Old US1 as well as the four and a half acres north. Um, so, um, one of the first things I'd like to mention is just to, um, reiterate what has already been said tonight about the corn crib. We get the pleasure of looking at this corn crib through our kitchen door in our windows. Um, we have woods, a lot of woods around our

property, but that particular section is very thin with understory growth and such. So, we get to look at that. So, I would like to advocate from a historical perspective. Um, the protection of that corn crib. Um, we've been in the area 20 years. We value the history of New Hill and Apex and to the point that has already been made, we would love to see that protected even if it means moving to another spot if they deem that the best option. Um, as far as our personal property, we have, um, a really unique asset, which is a really large grass field that's probably.3 to about half an acre. Um, to most people, they see it and they're like, "Wow, there's a cool recreational field." Um, we're blessed to call it ours. You know, we we play sports on it. We do all the things with our kids, play with the dog, have parties, all the things. Um, and this is an area that's part of our um property that we would like to protect for privacy. We're concerned with a neighborhood going in, especially um one that's much denser than our own being a small rural community. Um we're concerned about trespassing noise. Um we're concerned about security because of the access to our property on this side. Um, and so that's the other thing I want to say about this field is it's not like um a um it's just a field with roots and holes and you know we don't want the liability of neighbors coming over into our property trying to play getting hurt, you know, that kind of thing. Um, but going back to the uh accessibility piece of it, the reason this is so accessible is where our property line ends, we jut up to the existing driveway of that historical home that you guys heard about. Um, it's approximately 20 ft wide, which as you heard is what the buffer that's currently proposed, which means the entire way up is 20 ft of cleared space. So, just quick to summarize, um, we do advocate for larger lots being on our side. We're concerned about the trespassing piece. We would like a um a fence. Um at least where it covers where

our field is to try and keep people out of our property. Um I did come up with another alternative which would be a I'm sorry,

three minutes.

Okay. I just want to say I did try to come up with like suggesting maybe the developer put in a burm to at least fill in the existing driveway to put a physical block.

Thank you so much for speaking.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you for being here. Elizabeth St. [clears throat] Elizabeth 3113 mayor and town council. Good evening. So, um, the one thing that I was anticipating we would hear is a little bit about the traffic study. So on the staff packet page 23 um it's got the uh study on the new hill old US1 intersection. And what was shocking to me was when you start reading through the traffic study, the first thing it says that this development is going to put 2300 daily trips onto the roadway. But yet, if you look at each of the intersections that were studied, the majority of them said no traffic improvements recommended. None. And when you look at this particular intersection, we all already know that is bad. And clearly when you look at that particular table, everything is going to be an E, a D, an E, or an F, which is the bottom tier that you can get in the level of service. And as I socialize this with my neighbors, we all kind of had to sit back and say, well, we we're going to be effed. We know we're going to be effed. Ef apostrophe D. You know, how is this in the public interest? It's not in our community's interest to have this type of traffic on the road. There's surely ways that

traffic improvements can be done to improve. There's got to be something. But to just accept that across the board when you look through the entire traffic study, every recommendation, you know, you see the traffic level of service going down and it says no recommendation, no recommendation, no recommendation. This is why we don't trust the process. we have bad outcomes. Why should we say yes, bring another 2,300 cars to our community when we get nothing but negative, worsening conditions? How does it improve our quality of life? It it doesn't. What it does do maybe gives you more tax base, but what we know about the studies that Wake County has done on the taxes collected to the services provided, you you lose money when you have high density. It costs more to provide services for every household than what they take in. This is not for our benefit. So while you still may approve this, this is on you guys. You know, these are your decisions. You know, I heard all the past, oh, you know, it was a previous council, previous council. This is on you guys. You have the opportunity to fix the process. We don't have to be effed in this process. Thank you.

Thank you for speaking, President Ruth. Good evening. Um, I've been in New Hill for quite a while. None of this development was ever there when I showed up in 86. So, the livelihood, the joy of living in New Hill is basically changed drastically. As far as the growth, it should not be any more growth until the choke point on

New Hill Hollowman Road, which is the overpass, two lanes, is on the horizon. Something's got to happen there. You cannot go through New Hill, continue over to US1 between 7 and 9:00. It traffic backs up all the way to old US1 to the stoplight at certain times. It's a two-lane bridge. People going right and left and we also have uh Holly Springs Newill Road feeding into that. It's a absurd situation. I do not go I live on Mason Road. I do not go toward New Hill, the intersection of New Hill Hollowman and O US1 and go left to the bridge between 7 and 9:30 and 4 to 5:30 because it's just you have no idea what you're going to be dealing with as far as traffic. That is the most absurd choke point I've ever seen. And I've been around Raleigh and watched North Hills, the whole area grow as a Raleigh of Nate, Raleigh native. And we've always been behind on traffic just like this lady presented. That was just one thing I wanted to say about the choke point. The main thing is if we were passing this based on this being a park, I live on the property 10 acres adjacent just to the south side of the railroad track right here. That's my 10 acres. It's a horse farm. There's five other horse farms on Mason Road. This is what Mason Road used to be was and is is large tracks of land. There's five horse properties. I'm concerned about coming off Mason Road and what am I going to be dealing with as far as that intersection? They're showing what they have planned here, but that doesn't tell me anything about a horse trailer coming into a fourlane old US1. Will it be safe? Possibly. if somebody's

responsible. But you're talking about making that into a four-lane old US1 and then you're talking about putting a bike path and they're trying to sell or advocate a viable park. I I go past that park between the railroad tracks with this easement and widening old US1 and then putting a bike trail. It doesn't look anything like that nice spit of land. You're talking about a very small piece of property to build a park on. So my what I'm here for is to find out information on the park and I've not seen anything to speak of. So what kind of viable park could you possibly make on that that they're offering up and it just it just won't happen. But I have we have lots of concerns in New Hill about the traffic and what's being developed.

Thank you, Mr.

And I'm all about growth, but our concerns need to be addressed. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Thank you,

Jeremy. Jeremy Bradom. Evening, Mayor, Council. Jeremy Bradom, the uh preservation program manager, Capital Air Preservation. I just want to say that um we've worked out the language and come to an agreement on the language um that really addressed everything that was in our email yesterday has been addressed from the uh planning director having oversight on the new house loc or the new location for the corn crib and uh the preservation easement and the rehab rehabilitation agreement. So everything is good together from a preservation perspective. So that's the only narrow air thing we're going to comment on, but we did come to an agreement on that and we appreciate working with them. Thank you,

Mr. Brder. All right. Public hearing for comment is closed.

Discussion time.

Come on up.

Yep.

Good evening, Mayor Council. My name is Nancy Rose. I live on Collection Court in New Hill. Um I'm also here representing the Borick family who live on the south side of this development where there's one home right on the edge right here. I'm going to speak to the gentlemen before me about traffic who they also have um horses. They have horse trailers, construction equipment. I'm not sure where the fourlane road is going to end if it will continue on their property. I know that development will be um possibly they'll lose their front front yard once that expands into the multicolor um you know it's not this housing development but they're right on the edge of that. They're neighbors to this family who has sold this property. So that's that's their concern. I also have a concern which nobody really focused on. It's a little bit as a school district. Um they're maxed out. So where are these families going to go to school? I think this happens every time we have a development in New Hill. They build another school in Holly Springs. So part of the high school in Apex moved to the new Holly Springs High School this year. So then what happens for the high school, you know, in another couple years? Are they going to max out? And then where are they going to go? Are we going to keep building another high school somewhere else on property where there isn't much? The last issue I'll quickly say is the post office, which nobody's really mentioned. It's probably smaller than the garages that are going to be built in these new developments. Um, if you've ever gone out there, they're sorting mail in the rain, in the snow outside. Um I'm not sure if um

anybody would like to work in those conditions, but we're adding 270 more homes, more mail. Uh we're talking about, you know, sewage, water. We're talking about the roads, which are horrible because the truck the trucks have just broken the edges of the roads because, you know, dump trucks carrying everything for these new developments coming around. We're being surrounded. Um, I know the post office has another three-year lease. They may move into that new New Hill Commons area, but what happens until then? The parking there is horrible. Uh, the post office, you know, workers barely have enough parking for themselves and are you going to widen in front of the post office right before the light? And if that's the case and the and the working environment that they have to work in, I don't think any of us would want to be in the cold or the 100 degree weather or the rain or the snow sorting mail. It's it's very small. So just considerations. Thank you for letting me speak.

We're happy to hear from you. If you would see Mr. Coleman to sign up. Thank you so much.

All right. Public hearing is officially closed now for comment

and we'll go to discussion. Um council members,

I got a little bit ahead of my skis. So

that's okay. It's all good. It's all good. [laughter]

I uh I have concerns like and and so I do want to acknowledge some of the concessions that the applicant has has made in response to both uh you know capital area preservation the neighborhood uh you know the neighbors concerns as well as some of the concerns outlined you know throughout the planning process. Um, I just, you know, I'm kind of hung up on on the, um, the lack of housing affordability as well as the commercial uh, space being sacrificed for u, you know, for town home developments. And, you know, for those reasons, I just cannot support this uh, this development at this time. Thank you, Kelsey. [clears throat]

Yeah. Um, I I made a couple notes. I want to give my thoughts on some of the issues that have been raised. Um, I guess I'll start uh with the TIA and the traffic. You know, it's obviously a huge issue in this area, huge issue in old US1. Um, I do want to point out what the purpose of a TIA is and when we can require or not require stuff and why the TIA doesn't recommend a lot of improvements by the developer. Uh, disappointing amount, but the process is um, if you look at the TIA, uh, for the public and everyone out here, there's multiple columns. One of the columns is existing conditions. Gives it a grade A, B, CD, DEF, F. And there's some other columns. There's a no build condition, which is what it predicts the conditions will be in the future if this development doesn't occur. In this case, 2029 is another grade. And then there's a build column, which gives you the grade of in the future if this development were to be built. The TIA can only recommend improvements and we can only require improvements on the delta between the no build and the build, not the delta between the existing conditions in the build, if that makes sense. So you can only kind of charge to them the impacts that they're creating, which is the delta between the second and the third column in this particular chart, the no build in the build. So if you have a current condition of a B and a build condition of an F, they're saying it's going to get terrible in the future and then or sorry, a noble build condition of an F and then a build condition of an F, it's going to be terrible no matter what. And they're not making it worse. It's going to be terrible either way. So that being said, that's why the TA doesn't recommend some improvements. That being said, it is a huge problem that old US1 is going to be very, very bad in the future, and I don't have a plan to fix it. And that makes me really uncomfortable that that things are this bad. I don't think again according to TA not necessarily the fault of this developer, but it is an issue that we need to uh to think about. Um and you know, so I'll move on from that. We have a lot of stuff to talk about. So traffic f is an issue. I also appreciate uh the the historic structure um concessions

and conditions. Um, from my point of view, making CAP happy is a requirement to to come and and talk to me about what you want to do with a historic home. I defer to them and if they say it's good, I think it's good. Um, I also want to echo some of my colleagues concerns about the EAB conditions. Uh, I counted five of 15 were um, uh, you know, agreed upon by the by the developer. Um, and the five that were agreed upon all generally consisted of what type of things to plant. You know, native species or non-native species, a percentage, that sort of thing. A lot of the bigger stuff, including some of the things we've gotten routinely before, like solar conduit, were not agreed to or or not proposed by the applicant. Um, and you know to my colleagues like we set up this board of of resident members or of residents in our town to to provide these environmental evaluations and they make these recommendations and they've said to me like it's upsetting like it just goes off in the ether. They have no idea what happens. They don't see from the applicant what they've agreed to or not agreed to and unless they watch this meeting they don't know what happens you know. So, one of the things that I'm trying to fix and I've talked to some of you about is is having that applicant come back to them. I'm reporting back to them what happens. And I think it's important that we empower that board if we expect them to achieve the mission uh that they were um you know chartered to do. So, uh that's that. Um the the park, there's some questions about the park. It's a linear park. I think that means it's going to be like a path like a like a you know a little side pathing not like a park where there's like swings and stuff. It's it's going to be you know a side path kind of thing is is what linear park means. Uh the post office issues I actually use that post office a lot. Um it's kind of a secret to some people around us that go there and start the big one in Apex if it's a little um you know a little uh not as busy at sometimes. We got a PO box there. Um, but yeah, it is an issue, but it's it's generally I mean, at the end of the day, it's a federal issue is

to to address that. Ask ask people in Holly Springs what it takes to get a new post office built. Um, so that's that's not something we directly address. I can say we're not going to be able to take any other parking though. Uh, there's no way that uh that we'll be able to to touch anything that that the federal government is owning. Uh, the last thing um had to do with affordable housing. I I think this is something we need to take serious. I think this is something that I want to back our staff and give them uh I want them to know that uh this council, you know, uh backs them in the in the recommendations that they make and that we're behind them. We we've endorsed the process. We've approved the uh the policy and um we'd like to see people work with them and and work for their approval. So, I'll leave it at that. I'm not in support at this time. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor Port member. Moo or

actually um except all those said by my colleagues, um I actually, you know, like the original, you know, uh 2045 zoning, you know, uh residential and commercial because we have [clears throat] so many residential build. Um we need some commercial near some you know near the residential and the commercial property can uh share some burden you know um for our share some burden about the tax you know tax burden to our residents. So yeah I'll add this. Yeah you your turn.

[clears throat]

Um, thank you, Council Member Mood. Uh, I'm not in support of this proposal. I'll tell you why. Um, I actually really appreciate the applicant, um, and the neighbors working together. Uh,

and I understand from the applicant's point of view the difficulty of threading the needle when it comes to affordable housing and and at least making um efforts in that regard at the same time respecting um the RCA. Uh my philosophy um during the campaign trail was to talk about affordable housing where it makes sense and aggressive protection of tree canopy where possible, especially when it's not near major nodes um uh or or has the potential for mixed use. Um just because we don't talk during um the question and answer uh portion of the hearing doesn't mean that issues like traffic and schools aren't right there at the front of the conversation and hadn't already been talked about. um and the park I wanted to address. Uh I mean I served on that steering committee for the land use map and transportation plan and some of the thought uh behind those um were to to at the very least preserve land where possible um and literally any place where it's possible and that was the thought behind that. Um but that this is unable to bring really aggressive funds for our affordable housing fund. Um, and that was the first thing I was thinking when I and again I appreciate the the sentiment. Um, the quarter million and the hundred million or I mean sorry the quarter million and the hundred,000 combined between two proposals and I was just doing the napkin math and I I'm a late person in that regard, but $350,000 doesn't sound like much in today's environment. Um, [clears throat] and so because of us not being able to preserve more of the land, um, and because of

some of these other factors that were already built into, at least my understanding of the traffic challenges, the school challenges, um, and the affordable challenging, uh, I mean, affordable housing challenges. Um, it just doesn't seem like this is the right uh, project for this area. As much as I appreciate the applicant making efforts,

thanks, Councilman. I just want to say um I'm I'm just grateful for all the members of the community that came out and spoke tonight and voice your concerns. It sounds like my colleagues were aligned with that. So um do you have anything you want to say?

Sure. Sure. Yeah. If if council's amendable to it. I think we'd like an additional month to try to address some of the concerns with with the environmental conditions um and hopefully get on on the same page with affordable housing staff. Uh I think we could we could use that time well. So Okay.

Thank you so much.

Thanks. Um, that's it for remarks.

Yep. You you can

I was just going to say I don't know how you saw the schools. I don't know how you saw the traffic. It's a lot of cars. It's a lot of kids. Um, good luck. I mean, I I hope something comes back and you're able to wave a magic wand. I don't know how you

Well, we can Yeah, I mean, we're we're happy to address some of those specific concerns. The only the Wake County school letter, the only school that was capped where uh future construction won't school construction won't address it is the middle school.

Yeah.

Um but the other two

point,

right? No, no, there's certainly an issue there. Um but I think Wake County has done a great job in the last five years projecting uh you know, school capacity issues and and finding new school sites. So um you know that issue there is is here regardless of our project. So, um, and and then, you know, a lot of the TIA issu issues are where a lot of the improvements to that intersection are are commitments of other projects that are that are moving forward. So, um, so in some instances and and we can have Nate talk about that for the next hour if we want to, but but a lot of those commitments are are

included in Gracewood and in New Hill Commons. Um and then and then several other projects that are planned uh including improvements all the way down at the bridge over over US1. Um and so those are all things that are in previous traffic studies that have been commitments of previous zoning cases and many of those projects are moving forward. I know Gracewood was just sold and so our commitments layer on top of those. Um and so it's not just reading our TIA in a vacuum of these are the only improvements that are going to happen here. you know, the the town has been planning for development in this area for years and and phasing improvements with different projects. Um, and so we our TIA includes our section of those in the timeline that we're expected to construct. Uh, which again to the the school issue, um, the construction on these houses wouldn't start until late 2029. Um, and so it's it's difficult to know exactly what the school situation will be then. Um, but you know, denying projects like this is not solving the school issue because it exists now. Um, and and so and and we certainly can't solve it with one project, right? It's this site is not big enough to build a school. I know there have been projects that have done that. Um, and so it's it's something that's worked on, but but that we we don't have a lot of control over. So, uh, you know, we're happy to engage in some of those details. If there are specific transportation TIA questions, we we'll delve into those. Um, you know, we don't include all of those in the presentation because it's it's a big document. Uh, but but if there are specific questions on those, we're happy to answer those tonight or uh, you know, over the next month if if you're if you can continue. So, thanks.

Thank you, Mr. Corper. Is there any interest of a motion for both items to be continued or we need a date if [clears throat] that's the case? What date?

What's that? Second meeting.

April April 28th.

I move we continue uh to April 28th.

Okay. You have a motion to continue to April 28th.

I will second.

Second. Ziggerman. Any further discussion?

I just point out that our UDO um I don't say entitles, but it it says that developers can request one continuence. That's why we routinely see this occur and you ask about it. Yeah.

Thank you.

Can I say one more thing? Yeah.

I just want to see a much more aggressive RCA percentage.

That's that's one of my primary factors.

I just want to add real quick. Um I'm real big on security. So I've been out to the location and I want to make sure they're taken care of along with all the other points that were brought up. So fence those things. All right. So we have a motion second. Any other discussion? All in favor say I.

I.

Opposed. Motion carries.

Thank you. Can we take a 10 minutes before? All right. We're being recessed until 8:15.

This annexation is in the northwest portion of our jurisdiction. Um, this is a little bit of a weird one. This is only for public roadway construction. So, there's a little bit of road widening in the rectangle and then the end of a culde-sac that you see there on the half circle. Uh, this is actually for courtyards on Wimberly. Staff recommends approval. Okay, any questions? Hearing none. All right, we'll open up public hearing for this item. No one signed to speak. Public hearing is closed. It's back to council for discussion. Lead to a possible motion.

Motion to approve.

Motion mayor prot.

Second by council member Lou.

All in favor say I.

All right. Motion passes. Public hearing four. Apex Transportation Plan Amendment, Deer Creek Greenway Connector.

How you doing, Michelle?

Okay. Good evening. Tonight, I'll be presenting for public hearing number four, the Apex Transportation Plan amendment to add the Deer Creek Greenway So for this amendment, we're looking in the vicinity of Olive Chapel Road to the south and New Hill Olive Chapel Road to the west. And the proposed amendment is to add proposed greenway between a future extension of Aderondac Way shown here and the future or the proposed Deer Creek Greenway. And this is proposed as part of the estates at all Chapel which was formerly known as the Lawrence property plan unit development. And as a condition of their zoning, they committed to providing a 20 foot public greenway easement within their development. And the re reason this is being brought forward as a public hearing to town council is because this greenway would cross property outside of the estates at all of Chapel in order to connect to the Deer Creek Greenway. and planning staff, parks, recreation,

cultural resources staff, and transport transportation infrastructure de development staff recommend approval. And at their February 25th meeting, the parks and recreation advisory board unanimously recommended approval. And at their March 9th meeting, planning board unanimously recommended approval as well. And here to try to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you so much.

Thanks.

Questions for Michelle? Can you walk me through the timeline a little bit here? Uh, and because typically we see these come with the development, right?

Yeah. I I can I may hand it over to our parks and rec staff, but my understanding is this this came through as a commitment to as part of the estate hall of chapel and then it was found that since it would actually cross property outside that's why it's being brought forward as a public hearing because typically if it's on within the same property it's more of an administrative change once it crosses is when we bring it forward. So yeah it is on the later end than typical

right. No, I guess I'm just like because we approved that. I'm looking 2024.

No, action day 2025. So about a around a year ago. And usually when you have these amendments, they come at the did we add that condition later? Was there a timing issue where it wasn't brought at the time of approval of the estates at all chapel or is it just missed at the time that we needed to do the amendment?

You know what I mean?

Yes. I think it was I think it it it was realized after the fact that it needed to be an amendment.

Okay. Any other questions?

All right. Thank you so much. Thanks.

All right. We'll open up public hearing for comment. No one signed to speak. Public hearing is closed.

Is there a motion?

Motion to approve.

Motion Ziggger.

Second.

Second. May prom.

Any discussion?

All right. All in favor say I.

I.

Motion carries. Public hearing five feasibility study

for BO2416 tanger road bicycle pedestrian crossing. So Russell Dalton and I will be presenting tonight for public hearing number five, the feasibility study for the Tingen Road bicycle and pedestrian crossing. So an agenda of what we'll be running through today starting with the project overview and background then getting into a summary of the public engagement that was completed as part of this study. Then we'll share the functional design and some visualizations that were prepared, some cost estimates for potential next steps in this project. Then walking through those next steps, and then we have two possible motions for council to consider. So the start out with the project overview and background. And this information was presented at the August 2025 public hearing. So it's just being provided tonight as a refresher. So the project history, the existing tingen road at grade crossing of the railroad is required to be closed upon the opening of the apex peakway southwest connector bridge which is currently under construction and the proposed bicycle and pedestrian tunnel would replace the vehicular access that's being lost at Tingen Road and this project is currently programmed for design and ride ofway. So the purpose of the feasibility study is to study the opportunity to maintain connectivity for cyclists and pedestrians across the CSXS line at either at or near the existing tingen road crossing. And then to determine the relative need for this project and whether to move forward with further design.

And then just want to point out on the right is the study area in red that was considered for this project. So the exhibit on the left displays the existing and planned active transportation network. So again that study area is shown here in red. And just want to point out that in addition to this grade separated crossings, there are three other proposed grade separated crossings on the transportation plan within the larger vicinity of this project. So there are two that were added to the plan as part of the S-line mobility hub. So, one grade separated crossing of the railroad tracks at East Moore Street. Another grade separated crossing of NC55 just parallel to the railroad bridge that crosses over 55. And then another crossing of 55 closer to JC Park. And there's currently no funding for for any of these crossings. And then the exhibit to the right displays adjacent development and infrastructure projects. And again, the study area is in red, and a number of projects are called out. But I'd like to point out some additional development to the south that's anticipated to increase the demand for bicycle and pedestrian connectivity across Tingen Road and into downtown, including the Grace Christian School, the NC Children's Hospital, and then Vidia at large, as well as one shown on this exhibit, which is the Justice Height Street extension to the Peakway, which is anticipated to increase that need for connectivity. further south and then into downtown. So, a summary of public engagement that was completed for the feasibility study. First, last May, we completed a design sharet at the Apex Singer Center. And then when asked about the overall impression of the project, we were 80% 81% of responses were positive, 6% were negative, and then 13% were neutral or no response. And then at this design design cheret, four alternative alignments were presented. Three bridges

and one tunnel. And then when asked which which alternative do you prefer, the vast majority of attendees selected the tunnel alternative four with the next being alternative to the bridge without loops, but many fewer people selected that option. And then at the August 2025 public hearings, town council and planning board selected alternative for the tunnel as the preferred alternative. So that was carried forward through final design. And the primary reason for the public for the tunnel selection is that it received the most public support and has the least anticipated cost of the four options. It has the shortest connection, the least change in grade throughout the project and the shortest structure length. And then there's the lowest potential impact on existing utilities and water lines. And overall, the tunnel was considered to have generally a less of a visual impact to the surrounding community in comparison to the bridge options. And then the second public engagement opportunity was an open house held at the senior center as well. And then a comment form was available online following that meeting. And then here's a highle overview of the comments we received. There's a detailed um summary in the feasibility study, but there were some comments regarding the value or the need for this project in comparison to the cost. And then there were some specific design comments that would be addressed in the next phase of design. So those include requests for enhanced lighting and art to improve safety and comfort for cyclists and pedestrians and then question of pedestrian access during construction. And then there were a few changes that were made to the feasibility study and the functional design based on the comments that we received including a desire for more landscaping. So a landscaping light item was added to the cost estimate. And then there was also a suggestion to improve the angle of entry

for the bicycle ramp onto or from Salem Street toward the tunnel to make that more approachable to go in both directions. So the functional was revi was revised accordingly. So, I'm going to hand it over to Russell Dalton to share the functional design. So, for a resulting functional design, um if you look at the image here, um it connects up at the intersection of Tingen Road, Justice Sight Street, and Salem Street. Um so, from that intersection, um there's a side path that continues down Salem Street, goes off road where it goes off-road in that bend. You can see one of the public comments was a a better bike access from Salem Streets. You'll see a little connection there that goes to the trail from the roadway to provide that improved connection. Um from that point it goes down and under the railroad tracks in the bridge. Um you'll see down below the image um there's the profile um vertical profile that shows how it goes down underneath and the location where the box is for proposed tunnel underneath existing grade. Um then when it comes back up um you can either go straight um straight up a series of steps um to get to the intersection at James Street and Tingen Road um or the ADA and bicycle route would be through a couple of switchbacks and a turn before getting back to that same location. So there are some significant roadway projects uh roadway improvements included with this project. So um there is a project underway to connect Justice Height Street uh to the Peakway. So that's important to think about for this context. There's going to be more traffic on just a sight street as a result of that connection. It's going to be a more important roadway connection overall for the town. Um there's also proposed side path along NC55 as part of this. We discussed part of that and also a continuation of that side path would go um toward NC55 from this project as part of the plan. Um there is also a realignment of the intersection. So, one of the things we realized during this process was the existing alignment is not good for pedestrian access overall,

especially with this project. Um, so with that realignment, um, it's a much simpler four-legg intersection. Much easier to get simple, shorter shorter crosswalks across all all four legs of the intersection with simpler phasing. Um, and also creates an opportunity for a gateway feature because where the existing offset intersection is, um, there will be some rightway left over. Um, so we could potentially do some public art or program that space with something else. Um, the Salem Street improvements include three-lane widening with curb and gutter, um, shared lane markings for bicycles, which is part of our bike plan. Um, and again, that side path along the east side. So, real quick, the the design criteria we're working with for this tunnel. So, the structure length in the plans now is 105 ft. That's relatively short for the crossing. Um the length of walking from James Street to South Salem Street uh biking or ADA access accessible route would be 1,090 feet. Um that is cut significantly if you use the staircase. Um on the James Street side that would cut it down to 735 linear feet of walking distance. Uh the maximum grade is moderate at 5%. Um the the approach to it is from Salem Street along that north side. Um there are no landings required uh because of the grades we're able to maintain. Uh but there are two switchbacks we talked about over on the James Street side and uh we expect about 1.6 acres of tree clearing with the project. We discussed um options for tunnel types as part of the project. So one of the questions that came up is what CSX might prefer if we go to that next step of final final design um going into going into rideaway plans. So um they may favor uh boring um versus an open cut method. Um, our preferred would be open cut. If you have to do the boring method, it would require a slightly longer and deeper route. Um, it could create the need for pumps um to get drainage. Um, it would also potentially increase the cost. Um, so over to the right hand side, you'll see the two images. So, there's an example of a

boring underneath um CSX um DNS spur. Um, that's for White Oak Greenway um at Kerry. That's at Davis Drive Park. And uh below that um at uh going under Kerry Parkway that shows you an open cut tunnel, basically a box clover. So there are a couple different typical sections here to explain both the roadway crosssection on Salem Street. Um and the cross-section going under the railroad tracks. Um so an image on the left um you can see five foot sidewalk along the north side. You have 11 foot lanes. Um so one lane each direction with a center turn lane. um sherrows for the the bike lanes each direction. Um and then on the side where you have the tunnel, you would have your 10-ft side path. Um on the right side, um you'll see an example of the open cut method. Um so that is that um that box culvert. Um but above that uh we have what's called jump spans. Um so it's essentially a temporary bridge for the railroad while that box culvert is constructed. Um so that method um keeps it as the shortest route uh simplest. um you know we don't have to go as deep. It allows positive drainage so we don't have to use pumps. So that is our preferred method. Um so if we go to the next step of design that's when we would work more closely engage CSX and go through the process of getting their design review started. Now I'll turn it back over to Jenna for the visualizations. So as part of the feasibility study a series of visualizations were created. This this first one is looking from James Street toward the tunnel more at the pedestrian level. So to the left is the start of the switchback heading toward the tunnel and on the right is the staircase heading down toward the tunnel. And then this is from the same side but just looking up more so. So on the left you can see the switchbacks heading down. On the right the staircase and the tunnel and then the railroad tracks straight ahead. And then this is looking from the

railroad tracks toward James Street. So you can see the switchback. It's in the retaining walls toward the right. And then the staircase on the left. And then an option to walk your bike down the stairs if you'd like was included as well. And then this is a detailed look at the switchback on the James Street side. So you can see the switchback and the handrails and the retaining wall. And then this is from the opposite side of the tunnel. still looking from Salem Street toward the tunnel. One thing that we heard from the public throughout this process was really an interest in in ensuring visibility and lighting through the tunnel. So this is showing that you can see the staircase all the way through the tunnel from the Salem Street side to provide that clarity. And then this is looking from the railroad tracks to Salem Street. So showing from the tunnel the side path time into South Salem Street and then moving on to cost estimates. So this slide displays the cost estimate for preliminary engineering through rideofway plans which is what staff are requesting and recommending tonight. So the table on the left displays the allocated funds for this project as well as the FY27 CIP requests. And then the table on the right shows the incurred costs and the future estimates to get through rideway plans. So starting out on the left, the town has entered into a federal funding agreement. We received earmark funds for preliminary engineering and rideway for this project with 500 $550,000 in earmark funding and then just under 140,000 in the local match. So the total federal funding agreement is just under 690,000 and the request this evening would be for an an additional approximately 300,000 from in the town's FY27 budget for preliminary engineering funds. So

the total available requested funding would be 980,000 to kind of line up with the table on the right side. So I'll run through that quickly. So this includes the incurred costs in the future estimates to get through right-of-way plans. So the incurred cost to date is a feasibility study which is approximately 180,000. And then these numbers are estimates. So the CSX PE agreement is estimated to be 100,000. The NC DOT internal review is estimated to also be 100,000. And then to complete preliminary design through ride-of-way plans is estimated to be 600,000. And so that's how we got to that 980. So the key takeaway is based on the current information, available funds combined with this $300,000 CIP request is anticipated to fund the project through ride-of-way plans. And I just want to note that the federal funding agreement for preliminary engineering and rideway expires in April of 2029, which is five years from the date that the federal funds were authorized. So the NC DOT and FHWA has the right to revoke these funds if they're not used in that timeline. And then the next stop the next steps um include right-of-way and construction. So want to lay out those costs, what that could look like. So on the left are the ride-of-way cost estimates and that's assuming that that's completed in FY28. So the total cost for rideofway acquisition and final plans is estimated to be 975,000. And then the total cost for construction has been put in FY30 assuming that's when construction could occur and the total cost is approximately 10.7 million. [clears throat] And then some potential next steps. So next month um if approved we would publish the feasibility study report on

the website and then the item that we're asking council about tonight is highlighted in the red box. So that's to prepare preliminary design through rightway plans with that FY27 funding. And then the next and that would be complete in mid 2028. And then the next step would be in mid 2030 to acquire the ride of way for the tunnel and then to prepare final plans and secure construction funding. And then construction could start in late 2030 potentially. So, the possible motion that staff are presenting tonight, we'd like we'd request um separate votes on these two items. So, the if if that's what town council is interested in doing and the first would be to approve the draft feasibility study with updated construction cost estimates as presented in the public hearing because the NC DOT internal review has been added. So, the cost is a little bit higher in the presentation in comparison to what's in the feasibility study online. We assumed about um 525,000 for NC DOT review during the construction phase as an added cost. And then the second possible motion to approve advancement of this project through ride-of-way plans which requires that 300,000 in FY27 and planning staff, parks, recreation and cultural resources staff and transportation infrastructure development staff recommend approval of the possible motions. And at their March 9th meeting, planning board recommended approval at a vote of 7 to2. of of both items, both motions. So, I'm here to try to answer any questions you may have.

I have a question about the federal funding match, the Yeah, sorry, it's a bunch of slides back.

Oh, there you go. Um,

what is that available for? for pre preliminary engineering and right ofway

for this specific project.

That's correct.

It can't. Okay.

No,

thank you.

I have a [clears throat] question on the same. So I think what you outlined from this slide is that date we spent $180,000. Correct. So the federal grant was 550,000 with a um 20% or so local match. If we were to cap the project here, do we still owe that 20% local match or do we need to basically refund like 20% of $180,000 or how would that work if if we do not move forward tonight?

That's what Russell and I were talking about this. I might have you speak a little bit to it. It Yeah,

sounds like we could end tonight and there wouldn't be a penalty. I think we'd have to pay for what's been

Well, so the way the way these agreements work is it's uh we we pay the cost and we get reimbursed. Um so what's happened is we we signed an agreement for the feasibility study with the consultant to pay the $180,000 roughly um for what that is. So as they've been doing the work, we've already we've already signed that contract. As they bill us, um we pay them for those invoices. um after a period of time um we ask for reimbursement of 80% at that share. So that's what we've been doing. We've been getting 80% reimbursement on our payments to the consultant up to that full amount. We haven't completed the contract yet, so we haven't finished out billing. Um if we decide not to move forward, um we would just ask for final reimbursement from DOT based on our billing. We would notify them. We're not proceeding. They would close out their final billing. Um, and we just would not be able to get full reimbursement of federal funds because we're not continuing the project.

Any other questions?

Just Thank you.

Thank you. I just got a question just unrelated just about the project with regard you talked about lighting but also um is there any technology security cameras anything like that that's involved

include

we we didn't include that in the cost estimate but that's something that could be explored as part of any project and it may be a separate request through it as well through a separate budget

actually I do have an an additional question this came up um during the uh shared as well as in a recent uh public comment public forum. Um have we done any uh projections on the usage of of this facility? Like so how many pedestrians or bicycles would actually use this? Uh assuming that the tingen road bridge uh or sorry the the ape peakway bridge will be completed by the time we build this. We have not in the reason we talked about this and we thought about like doing counts of what of current walkers and bikers but discuss it's really not an apples apples comparison we have of what's on the ground versus what a tunnel would look like and plus with the additional features that would come with that if we had the side path because right now the sidewalk ends short of the railroad tracks on each end and I know I see people walk there I can't tell you numbers, but with a new facility and everything else coming in are I've always learned and seen when you if you build it, they will come. So there's not it wouldn't be apples apples to go out there. We could go out there and count, but I don't think you would get accur an accurate representation of what it would look like if a tunnel was constructed.

And and so u what is staff's opinion? because you also kind of mentioned the 55 crossing as part of the

transportation hub development and all that. Do we consider that an an alternate to this crossing or supplemental too?

We haven't discussed it as an alternate. I think what we discussed is alternate. If if nothing was built here, you would either walk west and cross at the peakway or east and James to Hughes to 55. So I I guess if you wanted to continue on to downtown and that was the route you chose, you could take that crossing, but I don't I don't see them making the same connection.

Uh I was taking more like from a downtown connectivity point of view, right? Like I understand that's it doesn't come with all the enhancements the other kind of enhancements that were mentioned here but I was primarily concerned about downtown traffic or you know foot traffic and bicycle traffic towards the downtown area

if this bridge were built instead of this tunnel.

Correct. [snorts]

If it would provide the same connection.

I mean it would provide a similar connection towards downtown. Yes.

Yes. Okay. But we haven't really spoken or staff hasn't really considered this as as as alternates of of a it's more supplemental than than really an alternative to you know one or the other.

Right.

Okay. That was my question. Thank you.

Sure.

Michelle, [snorts] can you put the slide back up for um just the recommended motions please? Thank you.

Thank you.

Y All right, we'll open up public hearing for this item. Uh, no one has signed up to speak, so public hearing is closed. Back to council for possible motion. [clears throat] I mean, I just want to add my comments. Um, I appreciate all the work that staff's put in this project. Like, I think he's done a wonderful job designing it. Um, I do think the costs

have have grown to a point uh where it's, you know, become a little alarming and hasn't been indicated as a priority. So, I'm not sure um I don't think it's wise to move forward with right away acquisition if we don't intend to fund the construction soon. I know that you there's a five-year window. Maybe we can make a different decision next year, the year after. Um so, my suggestion to our colleagues would be to approve the feasibility study, accept it, um approve the transportation plan amendments, but we can uh pause on approving rightaway acquisition uh until other funds become available or or the situation changes.

I want to echo that. I I live in the area. I, you know, I'm in this at this intersection frequently. Uh there's really not a whole lot of bicycle and foot traffic other than me crossing the railroad track there. Um given the cost of the project, um you know, frankly, I think we can use those funds better elsewhere in town. And I would be looking more towards that that longerterm solution crossing 55 uh as as my preferred you know investment right if it were to come to it. So I want to echo uh you know Mayor Proam's recommendation here that I I really appreciate the um the work that has gone into this. I think the the way of engaging with the public to evaluate alternatives, do some design work, right? Spend, you know, some uh some funds up front to to get really a good visual what a project like this would look like with with public input. I think this is, you know, the right way of of approaching a project like this. I really appreciate all the hard work and then the many hours that have gone into it. Um, I'm just not uh sure I I'm I'm I want to commit additional funds, town funds to this. Like, it's great that we got that grant, but it still requires a 20% um local match to um you know, to put on top of that, right, which um you know, includes a $300,000 ask for next year's

CIP. Um I prefer to pause at this point, see if you know, next year or two years from now, the situation on the ground has changed. By that time the uh apex um apex peakway bridge will be completed as well. We have a better sense of kind of the traffic that's you know crossing that bridge in terms of pedestrian and bicycle. Uh and at that point I think we might be in a better pos position to to reassess um the the future of this project.

Yeah. Um, I in short agree with the comments that have been made so far and I'll say part of the reason why I live a stones throw from here. Um, my kids have all gone to Apex Elementary. I was so excited when we had the Cherrettes. Uh, I was talking with my neighbors and they were excited. And then when we started hearing the $4 million price tag, immediately we all got cold feet. And then we see it start approaching 10 and a half nearly 11 million. It's just tough to see that price tag and justify it when those funds could be used. I think in other areas and we just did Salem Street or we're in the process of that for under five million. Um, great idea. Really appreciate staff's hard work uh and collaboration with the community and coordination among yourselves. Uh, I just it's the price tag is just too much. So, I would I would um agree that the first motion uh I would vote yes and the second one I would vote against.

Okay. Thank you.

I agree with um you know agree with

Arnold. Um he had lots of good points and I really appreciate all the hard work you put into this project. It looks really beautiful. I love it. Okay. I love every everything I saw there. Um like um Arnold said um we didn't uh you know we haven't done much of the usage study the traffic study how many you know people actually cross that and how many people actually will use that you know a tunnel right so I think you need more research on that you um and the price tag almost 11 million that's um that's a lot [laughter] that's really um uh you know um um probably we can you know um do the research first you know to see you if um we have really know many many needs for this if not maybe we can allocate the funding to some other more urgent uh projects to benefit the residents so that's my opinion but thank you so much yes

like tangent in a peak [laughter] Yes.

All right. Um, thank you everyone. So, um, is there a motion, a separate motion here?

Yeah, I'll make some.

Uh, I move we approve the draft feasibility study, the update construction cost estimates as presented in the public hearing.

All right, have a motion. May I approach him?

Second.

I think council member Reese got you.

I got one. [laughter]

All right. All in favor say I.

Oppos. All right. Motion carries. And I move we direct staff to pause advancement of the Indian road bicycle pedestrian crossing project.

Motion.

Second.

Second. Second.

All in favor say I.

I. Motion carries. All right. Thank you. Thank you all for your work. Appreciate you.

Stinks. Really cool.

All right. Public hearing six.

Okay. Tonight I'll be presenting amendments to the bicycle and pedestrian system plan map consistent or associated with the tensing road crossing feasibility study. So just kind of run through the amendments because they're similar to what Russell just presented with the functional design. So but just kind of show where we are on the map. So the amendments are along South Salem Street along and adjacent to South Salem Street and Tingen Road and the first amendment it proposed amendment is to shift the grade separated bicycle and pedestrian crossing of the railroad tracks west away from Tingen Road to align with the feasibility study as this location allows for a perpendicular crossing of the railroad tracks and avoids impacts to the residential properties along the east side of Tingen road. The second proposed amendment is to shift this proposed greenway that currently is proposed along the west side of Tingen Road between South Salem Street and James Street to shift it west to align with the ADA route as shown in the feasibility study. So that would follow the switchbacks from James Street and then go through the tunnel and tie into South Salem Street. The next proposed amendment is to add side path along the east side of South Salem Street from that greenway connector to NC55 as there's proposed side path along 55. So it would provide that connection to the north. The next proposed amendment is to add side path along the west side of South Salem Street from Justice Heights Street down to Sugarland Drive as this would provide a connection from the the proposed tunnel and then crossing at Justice Height Street to provide a connection to the future Southwalk Greenway and then continue to the side path that's being constructed as part of the Apex Peakway Southwest

Connector project. Finally, side path is proposed along the east side of Tingen Road from the side path that's on our plan along the railroad corridor south to the tunnel. So, planning staff, parks, recreation, and cultural resources staff and transportation and infrastructure development staff recommend approval of these amendments. And at their February 25th meeting, the parks and recreation advisory board unanimously recommended approval as well. And at their March 9th meeting, planning board unanimously recommended approval of these amendments. And I'm here to answer any questions you may have.

So, um, given the photo we just took to pass the project, you know, [snorts] effectively this change would change the bicycle and pedestrian map to accommodate a tunnel, but doesn't commit us to actually building this. Correct.

That's correct. Just if new development were to come in along these facilities, they would be required to construct it.

Any other questions?

The T. So this we're we're clear on this the impact of no tunnel and this is all still good to go,

right? This would change so the plan aligns with the feasibility study, but it's we're not pursuing we're not advancing the project.

That's my understanding. Thanks. Were you aware of any concerns from anyone in Justice Heights community about the sideb?

They were most interested, at least at the meetings, they were most interested in making sure that they could still cross Salem Street at their intersection. So that's why and there since there's a signal there, we're proposing for crossings to occur there rather than there was some discussion of midblock [clears throat] crossings of Salem at the proposed greenway, but we wanted direct crossings at the signal.

Thank you. My question is um is this can this be a

alternative you know um to the tunnel we tucked?

I think the only issue is when the peakway bridge opens the agreement shows that C fencing will be installed along Tingen Road. So there will be a cut off the certainly the connections along South Salem Street would be shown on the plan but there wouldn't be a crossing of tingent of the railroad tracks.

Thank you. [snorts]

All right.

Any other questions?

Okay. Thank you.

All right. Open up the public hearing for this item. No one's signing to speak. Public hearing is closed. Is there a motion?

Yeah. I move we approve the transational plan amendments.

Motion may prom.

Second.

Second. Ree. All in favor say I.

I.

Opposed. Motion carries. Thank you so much. All right. We have reasonzoning case number 25 CZ 19 Camp Branch Lane. Mr. Joshua Killian. Good evening everyone. Joshua Killian here to present reszoning case 25 CZ19 Camp Branch Lane. This resoning is located near the geographic center of Apex west of North Carolina 540. The parcels to be reszoned total 22.19 acres. Uh both lots shown here are pretty heavily wooded. Um I would like to point out a couple of environmental features that aren't shown here. There's a stream that uh bisects the property north south in this general location and then there's another stream that um is on the northern property line almost

mirroring the property line here on the north. So those will come up in later zoning conditions. Wanted to bring those to your attention. The partials to be reszoned in this case are currently zoned rural residential. The land to the north has a small sliver of medium density conditional zoning that is uh labeled as open space for the Crockett Ridge development to the north across Holland Road. And then there's rural residential to the north, east, south, and west across Holland Road from this uh proposed resoning. And single family residences have been uh constructed on all of those parals except the one to the north. The applicant is proposing to reszone the parals to medium density residential conditional zoning. The the applicant held neighborhood meetings on October 29th, 2025 and February 16th of 2026. And those reports are in your agenda packet. Wake County Public Schools letter of impact was received for this uh reasonzoning and indicates that schools at the middle grade levels will not have sufficient capacity for future students and that school expansion, construction, or reassignment within the next five years may address concerns at these grade levels. Um 25 CZ19 met with the environmental advisory board on December 18th of 2025. Of the nonrecommended of the nine recommended zoning conditions, a total of four were added, two as recommended and two were amended. Um, due to site limitations associated with those streams that I referenced earlier, the applicant is proposing a maximum density of four units per acre while altering a few of the dimensional standards in the medium density district to increase the lot yield. U public street improvements offered through zoning conditions include um

specified widening of Holland Road consistent with the town of Apex bicycle and pedestrian system plan. And those conditions are also in your agenda. Uh the applicant has provided in the current staff report and offered conditions a total of 5% of of units be set aside for either 20 years for ownership or 30 years for rental. Um using language from the town of Apex affordable incent the town of Apex affordable housing incentive zoning policy. Um but this policy does recommend a total of 10% of units be designated uh through the policy and per the staff report due to this inconsistency housing staff does not support the proposed condition. The 2045 land use map identifies the parals as medium dy residential and the reasonzoning is consistent with that land use classification. Planning staff recommends approval of resoning case 25 CZ19 with conditions as offered by the applicant. Uh the planning board held a public hearing on March 9th and unanimously recommends approval of this resoning and the proposed resoning is reasonable and in the public interest as proposed densities and uses are consistent with those contemplated by the 2045 land use map. The conditions provided also allow the property to be developed in a manner consistent with the residential character of the area and limits the allowed density um to be consistent with subdivisions within 300 ft of this resoning. The proposed resoning also includes dedication of rightway along the property's frontage consistent with the town of Apex transportation plan. I'll be happy to answer any questions that you have at this time. Um I will say that there is one condition that was included in the planning board staff report that has been removed by the applicant to in line

to align um development with the UDO to make be more consistent with the UDO. So um I believe town council is already aware of that but just want to make that public for those who saw the planning board and did not see this agenda.

Yes, sir. Great presentation. Any questions for Mr. Killian?

All right. Thank you. All right. We're here for Mr. Carpenter.

Thank you.

Good evening. Matthew Carpenter again with Parker Poe here on behalf of LAR, the builder and developer. We've got uh a slightly different project team for this one. I've got Chris Bolley with LAR here with me. Also, Don Curry with Curry Engineering, our our civil engineer. Um appreciate the introduction, you know, contrasting this case from the last one. This is a much smaller project. It's a conditional reszoning case. Um and so we don't have the PUD document and plan sheets. Uh but but just the the written reasoning conditions that we've worked through with town staff. Um the the property is located on Holland Road. Uh what really stands out on this site and what dictates a lot of the layout and design are the riparian buffers along the northern section of the property. Um and then the stream also that cuts through the middle. Thank you. Um, and so that really, as you can imagine, even though we, you know, it's a conditional reszoning, so we don't have a fully engineered layout, those natural features dictate uh the the layout where the majority of the density will be located um in the southeastern section of the site. And so you'll see that some of the conditions are meant um to allow that sort of conservation style layout uh where the the overall density I'll get to in a moment is is is relatively low. Um but there are smaller lot sizes in in a confined area. The the land use map here is medium density residential. Uh as we do with

with most of these cases, this is where we start. Um, and we look at what the land use map allows and what would be reasonable for for a proposed reszoning. Um, the the land use map calls for town homes and single family homes up to seven units an acre. Um, and so that's that's where we started. The the district that we're requesting is medium density uh conditional which is is consistent with the land use map um designation. uh as I'll get to in a moment, we are not proposing uh town homes only single family of this project. Um and I think that makes sense given the uh the surrounding uses even though the land use map calls for uh additional housing types here. The charact surrounding character is really single family um and some existing larger lot rural single family homes. Um and so with with that we felt that uh single family was an appropriate use here. We have the permitted uses outlined in in the zoning conditions. Um we uh included single family uh accessory apartment. If if you watch the planning board meeting, there was some discussions about that. That is requested in all of these cases by planning staff. Um and that's to allow accessory dwelling units in the future. um if homeowners want to build them. And so uh it's trying to allow some of that missing middle in the future. Um we are not proposing any apartments, just single family homes and and but but that would allow an owner in the future uh to build a a unit above a garage or or in the backyard. Um the affordable housing issue for this case has also been discussed at at great length. Um and and we came into this meeting with the the similar proposal that we had for Welch Homestead. Um after discussing it with Lenar and staff uh just before before

this presentation, we would like to just simplify this condition to say that we will provide 10% of of total units at 120% AMI for four sale units. And so that would be squarely consistent with the policy. Um and and and that's what we're we can propose and and I you know Mara can come up and speak, but at least preliminarily um she agreed that that that matches the policy. We would leave the language in there about rental units at at 80% AMI. Um we do that in these cases just in case in the future something were to happen and and another developer comes along and they want to do rental units, they would still be required to do the affordable housing. And so we we try to draft the the regulatory language so it accounts for rental or for sale. Um even though the intent is for LAR to build for sale single family homes. [snorts] Um we have 19 zoning conditions. I've tried to group them in different categories here. So So these are our sort of design guideline uh conditions. You'll see things about lot sizes, setbacks. Um, again, some of that is is for smaller, tighter lots that we have in the southeastern section of the site. Um, where we're pinched by the the riparian buffers. Um, we have the condition that HOA covenants will not restrict the construction of accessory dwelling units. Again, that's a staff uh recommended condition that goes handinand with the the permitted use for accessory apartments. Um and again so so just to mention some of these lot sizes and setback conditions um to get anywhere close to the seven units an acre that's recommended by the land use map uh it required you know modification to the to the lot sizes uh and some of the setbacks. And so that's the justification there. And even even then we're coming in on our initial sketch

plans under four units an acre um and in some instances closer to three. So uh so even though the the dimensions of the lots may look medium density medium high density residential the overall density uh will be relatively low. Um, we have buffer and substreet conditions that have been negotiated and added uh based on our discussions with neighboring property owners to the west uh I'm sorry to the east rather and to the south. Um Mr. We spoke with Mr. Donnelly to the east. We met with him uh at his home and he asked for a a 20ft buffer um wide a buffer as we could provide and a fence. Um and then he he didn't want the stub street again the same issue we ran into in the last project to clear the perimeter buffer. And so we've drafted the condition that the stub street will stop short of the buffer. There will the rightway will go all the way to the property line in case in the future that connection is made. Um and then there will be a fence along the the perimeter buffer that will be owned and maintained by the HOA. Um and so we've done the same similar condition to the south uh to also provide privacy for for that adjacent property owner. Um we've also agreed to a stub street to the south. You can see roughly in those uh those blue arrows where the the stub streets will go. Um and so again, a site that right now has one access on Camp Branch, um which is really limited by the existing riparian buffer and the curb on Holland Road, uh that that there will be two future stubs to the to the east and to the south. Um that if those adjacent properties redevelop will provide additional cross access. Um and so this this project was of a size that was below the TIA threshold.

So we were not required to do a TIA for the reasonzoning, but we have agreed to voluntary conditions for transportation improvements. Um and those include the widening of Holland Road um and an exclusive left turn lane into the site um onto Camp Branch Lane. And so, uh, we we have, you can see we have, uh, the large stream that crosses Holland. And so, we have language in the condition that accounts for the approvals that we'll need from the Army Corps to disturb that stream. Um, and then if they won't grant the stream disturbance permits, then we'll pay a fee in loo. Um, and one technical change to that fee and loo language that that we've agreed to, um, that was sort of a cleanup item that staff noticed was that we'll also add a 15% contingency to any fees in L that are paid where we can't construct an improvement. Um, so as I understand it, Apex collects contingencies as part of fees in L, but there's not a specific standard in the UDO. So, um, at staff's recommendation, we we'll update the condition so that, uh, we'll specify that there'll be a 15% contingency, um, if we can't get approval from the Army Corps. So, uh, I'm sure staff will provide additional information on that, but, I did want to mention it because it is a technical change tonight. Um, and so, so on the whole, um, the the project is consistent with the land use map. It is squarely consistent with the medium density land use map designation. Uh we've addressed the neighbor concerns through perimeter buffers, fencing, sub streets. We have transportation improvements. Um and with the change to the affordable housing offer, we're consistent with the policy. Um and so so with that, we we've really um met all of the available long-range plans and policy documents in the town. um and

address specific neighbor concerns that had popped up through the process. Um and so with that, we we respectfully request your approval. Happy to answer any questions. Thanks.

All right. Thank you. Questions for Mr. Carpenter.

I'll behave this time. Um Mr. Carpenter, can you repeat to me what you mentioned about the fee loo when the Army Corps of Engineers?

Sure.

Does not approve what exactly? And and so if the Army Corps doesn't approve the improvements, what's the viability of this project without those improvements?

Sure. So So I'm talking specifically about the widening of Holland Road. So So we've agreed to widen Holland Road for the length of our frontage um on on our property line. So that's I don't have the exact street section, but it's a three-lane thoroughfare section with a 6ft bike lane and 5ft sidewalk. So we would build that from here all the way to our property corner here. But a portion of that will will be in the existing riparian buffer there where there's a covert I believe and Mr. Curry can correct me if I misstate any of this, but there's a a covert in the road. And so we will have to to get a permit from the core to disturb that stream to do the improvements. Um and and there are certain charact uh there's a certain framework that they use to determine whether the disturbance is justified and whether they'll allow us to do it. And uh if they if they don't allow us to do it, our widening will stop short of the stream to avoid impacts and then we'll pay a fee in L for the rest of the widening. Um and and it it really has to be written that way because if you if we get to a point where we the core doesn't approve it, we have no control over that approval. I mean what what we'll do is we will submit designs to them to say here's

what we're proposing the widening consistent with the condition that we agreed to in the resoning case and then they'll make a determination. If if if they allow it we'll build it. If they don't we pay a fee in loo only for the portion that we can't build. The rest of the widening would still occur.

But what would the fee and l cover in your mind? Because if you cannot build it we can't either right. So what what cost are we covering? And that's

it's the construction cost of of building the widening where the where the stream is located. And

that's not permitted. So like

Well, no, it's not. So So the determination wouldn't be that it's never permitted. It would be that based on the impacts of your project, the stream disturbance is not justified at this time. If there were a larger project or another road project, the core at times looks at those differently and says, "Okay, well, that's justified." If and it's really tied to the the traffic volume need is is what they look at. So, if you can justify the need for the crossing, if you remember, we got really far into this in in the the Tingen Road reszoning years ago with the Peakway. I guess it's been a couple years now. It's the same concept. Um and and so the the core may not approve the disturbance because we can't show the traffic demand is there to justify it. And if that's the case, we pay a fee in lie for only the portion of the the winding that we can't construct. Um and then down the road if if the traffic becomes to you know to the level that that the disturbance is justified in the core's eyes then a future developer could come along and and do that widening and use our fee and Lou to to do the widening.

And so what about the stream crossing on the property and the repairarian buffer crossing there? Yeah, we we feel like that well, number one, the crossing is already there, but we will be improving

that crossing, you know, paving the street, putting in a new culvert, I believe. Um, but but but that if you can see that that's sort of a a narrower stream than than what's in the northern section of the site. Um, and so we feel confident we can get, you know, we can we can build Camp Branch Lane up where it currently is, um, but avoid any other crossings of that stream. So, thank you.

Yep.

Okay. Um can you go back to that um um permitted you use use and affordable housing slide? Yeah. Okay.

This one. Yep.

Yes. Okay. Um

um on that slide um is 5% of

you know affordable housing but you said it's 10 you are going to do it 10%. Right.

That that's right. So, so before coming into this meeting, we plan to offer a similar condition for this project that we had in Barber, which was 5% I'm sorry, in the Welch Homestead PUD, which was 5% at 80% AMI. Based on the feedback we got in the first hearing and and my conversations with with Mara, we are changing it to 10% at 120% AMI with without the donation which is consistent with the town's affordable housing recommendation.

Okay. And then um that 80% AMI for the rental.

That's right. Yeah. But so we we were planning to drop it for the for sale units. Okay. But we're going what we're proposing now and this so the slide is a little confusing is 120% AMI 10% of units 120% for for sale and 80 for

Okay. Okay. Also that um HUD home maximize maximum sales price

390,000.

Yeah. So, so again that was the that was the 80% AMI price and so with the change

we'll follow the 120% rules outlined in the policy.

So it could be more than 39.

That's right.

Yeah.

Okay. Got it. Okay. Why not? Just kidding. So um you said 120% um AMI for 10% for affordable housing,

right?

Thank you.

Yeah. And so so again, we we felt that our pre the previous offer in the other case and this one was better for overall affordability, which is why we lowered it. But what what we've heard is that is that, you know, and I'm obviously paraphrasing. You all can tell me if your if your opinions are different, but we what I heard is we need consistency with the policy. And so I'm simplifying the offer to say we will meet the policy um that's on the books. So

Okay. Thank you.

Yep.

All right. Yeah.

Thank you. Um can you tell [clears throat] talk a little bit about um your uh response to the environmental advisory board's recommendations?

Sure. Um I can address specific ones because there there are a lot. Um and

there are nine I believe.

Yeah. Um,

so the and I mean do you want to go through them all?

I was just curious what I mean I see I see I was making a good faith effort to just allow you to

Sure. Sure. So the the

rationale

right the first request no buffer averaging shall be allowed for zone 3 um of the riparian buffer. Buffer averaging is something that that's allowed in in the Apex UDO. And so the request and and the UDO already applies an additional stream buffer that's above and beyond the state riparian buffer standards. And so what the EAB is asking for is that we can't average that zone 3 buffer. Um and

and you know we we need the ability to average the buffer in areas where we have uh storm water pond or or other infrastructure that may uh may change you know the exact width of the zone 3 buffer in certain areas. The the other two zones of the buffer will remain completely undisturbed. And so so that's why we didn't agree to that first condition. um the storm water standard for a 100red-year storm. Um

where are we? My apologies.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm

staff report.

Yeah, I'm going through the chart.

Uh EAB chart. Yep.

Um next one I Forgive me perhaps I'm seeing it.

No, and maybe I'm looking at an old report.

Appreciate I just want to know that we're on the same

different. Okay. Yeah. So, no buffer averaging was the first.

You were right. That's what we're on the same Yeah, we're on the same page to begin with. And then

No. Yeah, I see. And then the third, uh, the product shall ensure that 75% of the landscaping shall be native species. Um, I believe we agreed to 60%.

Yeah, that's

um and and and sometimes that that's to give some flexibility for the landscape architect to design the the plantings. That that's the goal there. Um, and so I mean I don't think I mean that one is not a deal breaker. I we could

that was an amendment that Yeah.

Right. Right.

We can go quicker. I was just

No, no, that's okay. And I mean these are all extremely technical and and and that's why I'm I'm spending the time. So the um the next no single species of native or adaptive vegetation shall constitute more than

We can we can we can speed up. Um, I'll just say that the solar was one that was not added and I'm just curious.

Sure. There. So, there are all sorts of regulatory issues with with solar right now. Um, with with, you know, the ability to sell power back to the grid.

You know, some of those savings for homeowners have been removed by uh the the state legislation. and and so uh builders like LAR, the the owners can come in and request solar panels and have solar panels installed on their homes, it's much more difficult to do that speculatively and then sell the houses because uh what what LAR and other builders for that matter have found is that the demand is not always there to where a homeowner is willing to pay more for the panels. And so they prefer to structure it as it's an option that you can purchase, but it's not pre-installed on a certain number of homes and and then speculatively, you know, sell them that way.

Can I ask what the projected sales price for these homes is?

Yes, I have that. Um, I believe anywhere from 600 to 700,000. Is that accurate, Tucker? Yeah. Okay. Um, so I want to point out that that solar condition is not here to benefit the homeowners, you know, by selling power back to the grid. It's an environmental condition. We want to do this because we believe that renewable energy is a good thing, right? Not necessarily an economic benefit, right? So I'm I hear your answer but I do think that we need to look at these conditions you know through the lens they were intended right um now I understand you're in business right and and try to make money right and if you install a a system you try to recover that cost but you know at a price point of you know 650 $700,000 right the price elasticity from a potential buyer is next to nothing right? Because you're already, you know, tapping into a market that can afford that kind of kind of house, right? So, the incremental cost that a builder

would incur for a system like this, right? Um, I don't think that is going to be hard to either recover or split the difference with a potential buyer. Right. We we can I don't have them in front of me, but we can we can share numbers to explain that with you because I I mean I know when you just look at the price of the home, you know, can't can't Lar just absorb the cost of of panels and and I understand the sentiment, but there are are other costs that go into the cost of each home and to construct the home, the land cost, the uh permitting cost, the infrastructure cost, and so all of those things go into the cost to build the home and And you know, generally the land cost in areas where homes are $600 or $700,000 are proportionally just as high. And so it's not just a the more expensive the house, it can definitely be absorbed. Um Lenard has done it in projects and and had trouble with with selling those units. And so so we're not just sort of blowing smoke. I mean the costs do matter.

What do you mean trouble selling the units? You mean they come in sellar want to buy it now? just are sold slower than units without them.

Okay. So, um that this is still a 50 uh 58 to 80 unit development. Is that correct?

That's right. That's right.

And this is a request for six of those homes.

Yep. Yep. And and again, I mean, these these requests and recommendations cannot be looked at in a vacuum. I I mean we we can we can talk about this but when we're when every project has to meet every policy demand

every it's just um I it seems reasonable that six to the mayor prom's comments at an earlier hearing we were talking about um empowering this board and when three of the nine requests are made and the majority are denied

but the requests are not nine

finish sir I'm sorry I'm sorry

just going to say there are six homes out of 58 to 80.

Y

for a $6 to $700,000 sales price. Um, thank you. I I don't need anymore. I appreciate it.

All right. Any other questions for Mr. Carpenter? All right. Thank you so much. Um, Miss Newman, can we hear from you real quick, please?

I just want to make sure we were squared away on what was presented for affordable housing if we understood it from the staff side.

Yes, that's correct. Uh we did talk um after the last agenda item and uh he agreed to abide by the current policy. I still just want to state for the record that it's 120 as a maximum. They don't all have to be at 120. So you can still get some of the affordability at 80%. It's a range. So I just want to make sure I state that for the record. They don't all have to be at 120% AMI. That's just our maximum. Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you for clarifying. Yeah.

Thank you so much. All right. All right. We'll uh go ahead and open up the public hearing for this item.

No one has signed up to speak outside of the development team. So, we'll close it.

I would like to move that we go into close session to consult with the attorney.

All right. We have a motion to move to close session consult with attorney.

Second. Reese. Any discussion? All in favor say I.

I.

Post. All right, we're moving to close session.

All right, we're back in session. Mr. Killian, did you have anything? Okay, one second. All right, we're still doing You happy to present? You're good.

No, sir. I just wanted to make a mention that um for the changes to the zoning conditions that were in the staff report. We we would like to ask for an um and a motion to amend conditions 10 and 11 to add the contingency language. And no,

the council just needs to include the revised conditions in their motion should they want to approve the resoning. Yes. Okay.

Thank you, sir. [clears throat]

All right. We're discussion. Motion to deny. Second.

All right. So, we have a motion in a second to deny we're discussion for that.

Are you interested? Are y'all okay with hearing from Mr. Carpenter?

Sure.

I'm okay with hearing from Mr. Carpenter.

Okay. All right. Yeah, I mean I think from what we heard, you know, if we have some more time, we can we can bolster the environmental commitments. I think that's what tangibly what I'm taking from the comments. Um and so would appreciate the continuence for for for that reason specifically. Um and any other concerns from tonight that we can address.

All right. So, we got a motion and a second to deny Is that still holding on the motion? You guys

uh I move we table the motion and then we need a vote on tableling the motion.

Yeah, need a vote on tableing the motion and then we can move to continue.

Do you need a second?

Yes.

Second.

Okay, so we have a motion to table. Second, Reese.

All right. Any other discussion on that one? Yeah, something

was there a date certain table

tableing the deny motion.

All right. All in favor say I.

I.

All right. Motion carries the table.

Move we continue the hearing till um it again. May I ask may I request for May I believe it's 12th in case the applicant would like to go back before environmental advisory board and receive a recommendation to align their resoning case to what their update might may be just to give them the option.

Great idea.

May 12th is okay with us.

I move we continue the uh the hearing till May 12th.

Second.

All right. Motion Mathy second. Reese, any other discussion before we vote? I I just wanted to go on record of one

thing that I hadn't heard that I really um appreciate that I heard tonight uh was the conversation about AD use. I think that we're going to see more and more need for that. Um and just that option um and so that was one thing that I found encouraging.

Okay. Thank you, Councilman. All right. All in favor say I.

I All right. Motion carries. Okay. All right. Moving on. Uh, we have RE1 request item to be deferred till April 14th.

Is there a motion?

I think we removed that from the agenda. So,

yeah, we did.

We good with that? Okay. My fault. RA2.

Uh, yes. RA2 is to consider appointing a voting delegate and an alternate um for the submission of the North Carolina League of Municipalities Board of Directors election for um 2627. Um the last time this process took place um Mayor Pro Mahaffy was selected as the voting uh representative. Um but we need to designate a voting representative, designate an alternate, and then authorize me to submit that to the league.

Okay. I'll make a motion to nominate Mayor Prom as the voting delegate, myself as the alternate, and authorize the clerk to submit that to the league.

Second.

Okay. So, we have a motion to second. Reese, any discussion?

No.

I just let you guys know like you want to talk about a little bit. Uh it's actually, you know, it's not a big deal. The um the the board of um municipalities, there's a nominating committee. They review the review uh the the different applications. is they come with a uh presenting a slate to the the full board which or the the full membership which includes us. Um I've never seen the membership recommendation get voted down. Uh and it's only the one vote and really what's authorized is me going to website and clicking a button to to vote for them. So that's what's

going to happen uh once we authorize just for the record.

Had a little mystery around it.

Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that explanation. All right. So we have

Keep in mind the the director positions are the odd years. They alternate between even and odd years. for this year. It's for the odd districts. Got it.

Which we are not in.

Okay.

All right. All in favor say I.

I.

Oppos. All right. Unanimous.

All right. There's a motion to go into close session for the

four items listed.

So moved.

Second.

Second. Good job.

All right. You own it.

All in favor say I.

Oppos. All right. We're in close session.

Yeah.

Sorry,

we're live.

It's, you know, late night. Okay.

All right. Any other business? Okay.

Thank you all. All right. Thank you. Yes. See y'all later. Thank you.

[clears throat]