Board of Commissioners Regular

Good evening. Welcome to the Board of Commissioners meeting for the town of Pittsboro for August 10th, 2026. I will call the meeting to order and we'll start with a moment of silence. Please join me.

Mayor pro tempore, will you lead us in

the pledge of allegiance?

Will everyone rise for the pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Thank you. We have the regular agenda and consent agenda that was distributed prior. Are there any changes or additions to either? All right. I'll take a motion to adopt the agenda.

I'll move.

Thank you, Commissioner Farrell.

I would like to talk about the quarterly financials.

Okay, we can do that on that item. Well, it's on it's information anyway, so we can talk.

Okay, good. Fine. Thank you.

You want to say?

I second.

All right. Second, Commissioner Foley. Any other discussion? All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All right. Motion passes, and I'll take a motion to approve the consent agenda.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Farrell. Second?

I'll second.

Thank you, Commissioner Sherbert. All those in favor, say aye.

Thank you. Up next are information items. Are there any questions about the information items?

Commissioner Foley.

Yeah, report 3.1, Town of Hillsborough financials. I just have a few questions about the financials.

Okay. Um, so I just A couple clarification questions so I understand it. So, if if we're looking at the income statement account summary, that very first page under general fund right at the bottom

Our original budget.

14.1 and now it's 19. And I see that there's a a bunch of changes in it and maybe we can walk through three of them. Um Maybe you can help me with the definition there. So one by one.

Okay, so loan proceeds was our loan for the Raffi building.

Right.

Um plus um

How much was What's the difference What is the Raffi like how how much was the Raffi sale?

1.4

1.4 so we have a difference.

The one Right, the the loan for the Raffi though was 1.05.

Okay, good.

And then the remainder was the equipment

loan.

So uh the equipment loan

785 right.

7855 I see it there. So that's truck equipment.

Yeah, it was it was police vehicles and truck equipment.

The grappler. Okay, wonderful. And then uh the sale of fixed assets we just talked about that, right?

The sale of fixed assets was the um the part of the property back to Chatham Park, the park's land back to the park department was the majority of that. There's been other smaller um sales of like some um vehicles that we have um that are out of use.

I remember that. Okay.

We've sold a police vehicle, at least one or two um that are older vehicles that we've sold.

Okay. Thank you.

And then the fund balance, we did not use any of the fund balance appropriated.

So tell me about that.

So due to the fact that our revenues came in higher than we budgeted, we did not have to use any of the the funds that we had budgeted from fund balance.

And most of those revenues came from

So one was the um So there were increases in So um you'll see that we exceeded revenues to date on property taxes, motor vehicle taxes our utility franchise taxes our

This is growth is what you're saying.

Yes.

Right.

What you're saying.

These These revenues are not complete. Um there are still revenues that we receive um up through September that are for the fiscal year. That's why these That's why we stated very tried to state very clearly that this is not a complete report.

I think you said that on the cover page, too. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And then um

The apartment

uh 4100, that's the Board of Commissioners. That's us.

Yes.

Um we're missing one. So we got 25 20% less salary today, but I'm I'm just wondering uh can you

describe what the legal contracting the the contracting services are a hundred thousand dollars for that hundred ten actually for the current budget. What is that?

So that's our town attorney. And there's additional legal services

This is Mr. Massey.

Yes.

And but I see that under legal Is that our new uh contract attorney? Down at the bottom of the page 4700 under legal.

So So our our contract for the board attorney is under professional services. The legal services that we had um allocated that we did not spend, that was money that we had budgeted for the lawsuit. Yes, but we did not spend any of those funds. Those funds.

Okay, wonderful.

So you'll see that's under the budget, but that's not under any year-to-date activity.

Uh but it's under board commissioners.

No, 4700 is not board of commissioners.

No, that's legal, but there is a So Mr. Messick's contracted services uh are in the middle of the board of commissioners.

No. Messick's contracted services are under professional services under 4700.

Oh, okay. So then what So what is 100 What is 100-4100-53450 contracted services?

So contracted services Hold on. So that's going to be our audit services are under there. Our um Then we also have some fees with I

believe it's under contracted services and not under dues and subscriptions, but there's some that are with the um uh Triangle J or um Central Pines.

Okay.

Um I can't access my speech.

maybe EDC also.

Um EDC is under economic development.

Okay. So um 110,000 for

Would that be under board of commissioners?

Is that the right spot for this?

No. Huh?

Is that the right spot for it? This this 110,000.

Yes.

And that's traditional and that's

I don't ask any further questions about that. Thank you. Maybe you can help me with the public works works. That's 5400.

Yep.

So we're we're moving up with our revenue there. Um but we don't have we really don't have we most of that is through uh Tri River, right?

So public works is our streets.

It's public I'm sorry. That's you're you're absolutely correct.

Yep.

So pass on that.

One more question.

This is a general overall question about FTEs. FTE is a full-time employees. Do we have a way of calculating our full-time employee uh ratio so that we know we're right on track with that?

Where do we stand? Where do we stand? I believe so. Yeah, we're probably a little I think we're a little light. We're a little light on the budget.

You're low.

I I would say so, yes, sir.

So that's uh

That's all right. What's the number? Yeah, it was done after you. They were efficient.

Any other questions for him?

Balance.

It's a good workout.

All right. Thanks for answering those, Heather.

Okay. Uh no ceremonial items this evening. Up next, we have citizens matters and we'll start with the manager's update.

Thank you, Mayor. Uh so, as previously mentioned I think in a manager update via email, the town is partnering with Chatham Transit for a transit on demand approach called TOD. That was originally supposed to start the middle of this month. Uh they ran into an issue with the development of their mobile app and I think are still trying to get approval from the Apple App Store to get that app up. So, that likely is going to be delayed until probably the 1st of September. Uh but right now it's kind of in a hold until they can get that that app approved. Um tomorrow we have our kickoff meeting with the fire department for our merger study. So, we're looking forward to getting that going. More to come. Uh we have a staff kickoff meeting for the economic development strategic plan. That's going to be on Friday. And y'all will obviously hear more about that. Um also meeting this week to discuss Scale Chatham with uh Siler City and some of their folks. Next week, uh a couple public works updates just so y'all see what's going on around town. Got some shoulder and ditch work along Fayetteville Street near Pittsboro Baptist Church trying to clean that up a little bit. Uh remove and replace some sidewalks in Potterstone next week and they're doing some replacement currently in Chatham Forest. Uh first week of September doing some work to Masonic Street in East Salisbury so we can get some upgrades there to provide more on-street parking hopefully to gain about eight

spaces on Masonic. Um miscellaneous patching around town, Powell Place, Potterstone, Lindsay Street. There's some storm water drainage basins that need to be raised and fixed. So, they've done the raising, now we just need to go back and and put the asphalt back. So, that's going to happen hopefully first week of September. And then we have a sidewalk trip hazard project going on in kind of historic Pittsboro. So, that'll be West Street, East Street, Salisbury, Sanford Road, Hillsborough, and Thompson Street. So, that should be going on first week of September. Um Town Hall's looking pretty good. Um did a minor site change to improve the look that people will see along Thompson Street. And staff and the architects are working on the exterior renderings, and they're working on your presentation that you will see in September. And then lastly, uh just got a um update on Louis Freeman. The concrete work and the framing work should begin in the next week or two. So, you should see some more activity going on out there. That's it. Thank you.

[clears throat]

Thank you. So, I've got a question for you. Uh Jonathan,

the uh the trip uh review that you're going to be conducting, is that a an annual thing or how how's that insurance reasons or

We will likely do that annually, but the trip hazard survey has already been done. Then they're going to come back and they're going to use like a grinder, and they grind down those rough edges so there's the trip hazards gone.

Well, it's it's been done in Pitts Powell Place, and it's it's great. I love it. Um especially for the elderly. Uh also in Powell Place, there are some um maybe you can provide a little bit more details about my subdivision. But I'm wondering about the street improvements Powell Powell Place has, Pitts Powell bill. Bobble stone.

Just let me know.

Bobble stone.

Cobblestone.

Uh my update to Central Pines Rural Planning Organization has our next meeting on the 13th, which is Wednesday, [clears throat] I think. Uh yes. Thursday. Anyway, I'll be there on the 13th, and that'll be uh we'll be reviewing the scoring um for upcoming projects. And then on July 18th, I went to the Lowe's Hardware uh 20th anniversary. So, Lowe's Hardware has been in Pittsboro for 20 years. Now, more than 20 years now. And now they had a big event on July 18th. Uh say Commissioner Bonitz.

Yeah, no updates from me.

Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Farrell.

Uh nothing at this time. Thanks.

Thank you. Commissioner Foley.

I was at the Lowe's. It was hot that day. It was really kind of cool to see your son interact with the police department and uh the staff at Lowe's. Uh and the and the slide, you know, all those good things. You probably got some good photo ops there. So, um I do have to mention Sarah Cooney, uh just a wonderful woman and focused outward always. She is uh I guess part owner with uh the Root Seller. She has um she has a project that she's excited to uh unveil. It's called Feed Well Fridges. We're going to have six refrigerators in in North Carolina open to whoever who needs uh fresh food. There'll be two in Siler City, two in Pittsboro. And uh I'm glad that uh and like they say, this is just a wonderful thing since launching in April and August 2023 more than 35 350,000 pounds of edible food have been rescued from restaurants and diverted to their program

and they're diverted away from landfills as well and then redistribute distributed through these refrigerators and what what a gift that is all fresh food is processed at a new kitchen that they will be opening up on the Chatham Park Warehouse on the corner of that you banks and East Street right they'll be in there really kind of a cool kitchen. They really focus like that and just totally cares and she's one of those women so I love her for that. The other thing I want to talk about is a conservation subdivisions and conservation subdivisions are just a great idea and I know we have that in our video right now and I want to make sure that it's enhanced and bright and shiny as as it can be. I remember when I was working for Pan Am. With us today and he wanted to demonstrate what a conservation subdivision was in this room he would probably stand over here next to the princess I doubt to you got 25% at the back of the room and the rest is conservation.

wonderful proactive way to keep Pittsboro green. We just got to define what it is and make it easy for developers to take

advantage of it. So, uh I fully endorse your work and I have some recommendations that you might want to use. I've looked at Chatham uh Chatham County's work and conservation subdivisions. I also looked at Chapel Hill and both are very innovative. Uh they are less inclined to concentrate on setbacks or or the size of uh the house between the houses or the in front of the road. I guess that's smart smart development like Commissioner Bonham says. And uh I think it's time that we refine it and sell it like it's what what what we want here in Pittsboro. We want green. We want smart. And we want it so it's a win-win for our engineers, for our fire department, for the deer that run across the the roads. Uh just for everybody. So, uh I know this staff is focused on that and so I strongly encourage us to continue with And that's that's all I have.

Thank you, Mr. Therber.

So, I have a few uh small updates about the Chatham Chamber. They are having a state of Chatham breakfast and data briefing on Thursday, September 3rd at 8:15 right here at the Ag Center. Uh you can register online, I believe. And uh they're also having a leadership Chatham, which is and they're taking applications for that class right now for 2027. Um they'll be small groups offering a deep dive into the community with day-long sessions once a month covering everything from agriculture to public safety to education. And that's it.

Next we have public comment. We have five people signed up this evening. So when you come to the podium, please state your name and address at the start of your comments. There's a time limit of 3 minutes which will be displayed on the screen. In the interest of time and fairness, it's the board's policy not to respond directly to comments during this period. Staff will follow up as appropriate. Any speaker with hands out will give them to the town clerk and they'll be distributed to the board at the conclusion of this meeting. So we'll start with uh Mara Dillon and followed by Lenore Yarger.

Hi. Um my name's Mara Dillon. I live at 326 Market Street Road in Pittsboro and I'm one of the organizers of the Chatham Climate Action Network. As you know, the Chatham Climate Action Network has had ongoing concerns about Chatham Park's South Village small area plan or SAP and we joined the litigation against it this past January. We're here tonight to help ensure that you're aware of the context for the case and how it's proceeding. I'm going to read the beginning of our letter and the following two speakers, Lenore Yarger and Vicky Atkinson, also organizers for Chatham CAN, will complete it. But first some background. When the when the SAP was approved at your November 10th meeting last fall, the town planners said that the draft SAP did not limit the town's legislative role in the development process. Planning staff insisted that the proposed conceptual small area plan, followed by more detailed section design plans, would preserve meaningful public engagement and board oversight. This commitment, however, was not totally clear in the written SAP. And the master plan, development agreement, and other approved governing governing documents did not account for

a single large conceptual small area plan or section design plans. This is legally inconsistent and it opened the town up to problems down the road. In December, um attorney Megan Kimball from the Southern Environmental Law Center submitted proposed amendments to the SAP and its governing documents that would have one, ensured that the SAP's language was consistent with planning staff assertions that the town retains legislative discretion over section design plans, and that those plans would contain the level of detail the governing documents require at the SAP stage. And two, the amendments would have added language defining the section design plan process to related governing documents. That's the development agreement, the master plan, the additional elements, and the and the SAP process. And that would have made the whole thing procedurally valid and legally sound, but that was not done ahead of time. When these recommendations received no response, we filed a formal complaint within a 60-day statutory window. Had we not filed within 60 days, we would have lost our ability to raise these concerns at all at any point in the future. We took this step fully expecting and hoping that our complaint would prompt further discussion with town planning staff and the board that would make the South Village SAP transparent and legally consistent. Our goal, which we also understood to be yours, has never been to stop development but to ensure it moves forward with the transparency, public engagement, and board oversight that it requires.

Thank you. Up next is Lenore Yarger followed by Vicky Atkinson.

I'm Lenore Yarger from 3355 Woody Store Road, Siler City. We want to make sure you're aware of several developments in the lawsuit that have been discouraging to us and may

have implications for the town's role and board's oversight. In most instances, the town's filings and discovery requests have followed those of the developer word for word. This raises questions about whether the town is exercising independent judgment on behalf of the public. Discovery requests directed to our organizations by the town are copied directly from the developer's requests and seek detailed personal information about our entire membership including names, home addresses, and property ownership as well as internal organizational and funding information. While we are responding through normal legal channels, requests of this scope are atypical, undemocratic, and can discourage public participation in matters that have involved significant community engagement. Most recently, the town has taken the extraordinary step of joining Chatham Park and asking the judge to force us to hand over our full membership lists lists or else face being held in contempt of court. We just heard a few hours ago that the judge had in fact filed the order forcing us to produce those lists. We understand from our lawyers that there's no good reason for doing this at this stage or ever really. They've explained that all we need is a few willing members to provide a statement of their interest in the the And this request is clearly unconstitutional. The United States Supreme Court has ruled multiple times that forcing an advocate advocacy group to reveal the identities of all their members restricts the First Amendment right to freedom of association and by extension speech, petition, and assembly. If we are forced to hand over the personal details of hundreds of our members, it could chill participation in Chatham County and public engagement in town decisions. This is shockingly undemocratic. People need to be able to organize, share information, and engage in civic matters without fear that they'll be unmasked involuntarily if there's a legal conflict down the road. We're deeply disappointed that the town is participating equally in these aggressive litigation tactics.

Our attorney has proposed resolving the lawsuit through the targeted revisions to the SAP proposed in December or through a written clarifying statement. As easy and beneficial as this resolution would be, the town has indicated it will not consider it in any way unless the developer agrees. Chatham Park's attorney has stated that they're unwilling to settle as they believe doing so would invite litigation at every future stage of the development. From our perspective, this issue would never have gone to litigation had the town agreed to give the SAP the written clarity indicated at the recorded Board of Commissioners meeting on November 10th and made its definitions legally consistent throughout the governing documents. We sought a conversation and instead felt forced into this lawsuit by the town's lack of response. Thank you.

Thank you. Up next is Vicki Atkinson followed by Ian Scott.

Good evening. I'm Vicki Atkinson. I My address is 361 Wild Ginger Ridge, Chapel Hill. We're not asking for anything beyond the pale. The town could resolve this case without Chatham Park, but has not been willing to do so. At this point, we feel that the town is picking the developer over the residents and allowing Chatham Park to use intimidating and harassing tactics that discourage people from organizing around issues that are important to the future of our community. We are here tonight asking for more cooperation from the board to resolve the matter as we believe that we share a mutual goal of ensuring transparent, robust, community engagement, and legislative oversight over the SAP. We would welcome the opportunity to speak with you directly if that would be helpful. We want to reiterate that once the town

board approved the SAP, our intention was not to fight it, but rather to ensure that the approved version reflected what the town staff and the Board of Commissioners had promised. We thought we were collaborating with many of you on this project and doing what was in the best interest of the town of Pittsboro. We are very disappointed that instead of working with us, the town has forced this issue into litigation. We don't understand why the town attorney is now rubber-stamping everything that Chatham Park is asking them to do rather than working with you, the commissioners and citizens, to negotiate an acceptable solution. We feel like this is a betrayal of the people of Pittsboro and of Chatham County. We continue to hope for a collaborative resolution and would like to see your advocacy and leadership towards that end. As always, we appreciate your continued service to the community.

Thank you. Up next is Ian Scott followed by Lou Hendrix.

Good evening, Mayor Pro Tem, Commissioners. Appreciate the time. I'm Ian Scott with the Home Builders Association of Durham, Orange, and Chatham Counties. I'm coming tonight to speak just briefly about the proposed text change amendments to the UDO that were released to the public on July 23rd. Appreciate the opportunity to meet with May and some members of her team last week at a community meeting about the UDO. Learned quite a bit more there, but felt compelled to come speak tonight just to reiterate to you all our perspective that the changes that are

being proposed are really consequential. These are not minor cleanups. These are significant policy changes and many really knowledgeable people, people who spend their whole careers working in code like this and who do a lot of work in Pittsburgh were caught both confused about the process and off guard about those changes and the timeline for their for policy generation, policy creation. Our future in Pittsburgh really does depend on a productive working relationship between the public, the development community, and you all, the the government. And we want to make sure that these UDO text changes reflect that spirit of cooperation. Certainly our intent as an industry to work together. So, I've come with three really simple requests. One, understand that there was a letter sent from select members of the development community to the commission. I've had a chance to review that. I I'd urge you all to please review and give really careful consideration to both the practical and legal issues raised in that letter. Uh they are consequential. Uh and and they really do deserve your attention and response. Uh to two lay out some really clear policy goals in a public setting uh that we all can understand and and help uh hold to. Uh and with that, a process and a timeline for these UDO changes. Again, these are really really major. Uh they'll influence what happens in the town and what the town gets from the development community for a long time. So, it should be good. Uh and three, to offer ourselves as an organization to partner in any way that you all see fit in the process you lay out. Uh we are happy to engage the engineers, planners, architects, designers, developers, bankers, and attorneys that comprise our membership who have experience working in multiple jurisdictions, some of which

you probably want to mirror and maybe others that you don't, to uh help to help design a process that meets the goals you've all laid out. Uh but in that same spirit of collaboration uh and clarity and transparency, we hope you take just a pause with this, lay out some really clear goals that we can rally everybody around. Thank you again for your time and your leadership in the community. Thank you. Can you say your address, too, please?

Yeah, I'm I personally live at 500 East Main Street in Durham.

Thank you. Up next is Lou Hendricks.

Good evening, commissioners. Good membership. Uh my name is Louis Hendricks. Address is 227 Bluffwood. Um I am the chairman of the Chatham Chamber of Commerce. Here to speak on behalf of our members about the recently proposed UDO amendments. I do not have any um comments tonight on the substance of the proposed policy changes, but I I want to raise concern about the process by which they've they've moved forward and to ask for your help addressing it. Many of our members only learned about these four significant proposed amendments in the last 2 weeks. And most thought that um public comment was only open for a couple weeks, an unrealistic window to review and comment thoughtfully on significant policy changes. Uh a number of them have told us directly that they're still unclear where these proposals originated, what problems they're intended to solve, and why they're moving on the current timeline. That confusion reflects a gap in in how this process has been communicated to the business community that will be most affected. Our chamber believes strongly in partnership between local government and the business community built on clear communication and mutual respect. We don't um believe this UDO situation reflects the partnership either of us wants. So, our ask is simple. Slow down, articulate your goals, and outline a clear process. Give the business

community the time and clarity it needs to understand and meaningfully engage with these changes before the board takes action. Um and probably most importantly, we want to be a partner. We want to be an asset to you guys representing the business community, talking to them. Things come up, no hesitation, calling us up and for us to be an asset. Hey, what How does the business community feel about something? We can we can get answers, allow you guys to continue to make great decisions, and and help help Pittsburgh grow and and flourish the way we want it to. Thank you for your time, and we'll see you around. Thank you.

Up next, we have a few presentations. The first one is uh from the New Hope Bird Alliance. So, uh Barbara Driscoll.

Barbara Driscoll

I'm with New Hope Bird Alliance. Um, you need my address? Uh, 504. Okay. Okay.

[laughter]

Just public comment.

All right. Um, thank you for the opportunity to come and speak to you. I understand that you received a large, uh, parcel of land, 72 acres, Roberson Creek. Uh, and, um, part of what we do is do yard certifications and evaluate property for bird-friendly habitat. And I wanted to give you a little background information on what what that is and why it's important. So, how do I forward the slides? Thank you. All right. So, New Hope Bird Alliance, uh, we are the local Audubon chapter. We cover Durham, Orange, and Chatham counties. Um, if you're interested, we have twice weekly walks. We do a lot of conservation. I am co-chair for conservation, bird-friendly habitats, as well. Um, and we do a lot of other projects in the area.

All right. So, part of part of the issue is, and I think a lot of people are aware of this, if I could click this correctly, um, that we've lost a lot of birds since, uh, 1970. Uh, and birds literally are the canary in the coal mine. Um, uh, a recent study also showed that our butterfly populations have decreased by 22% in 20 years. And as you can see, there's a not many butterflies out there. So, we are doing a lot of damage to our ecosystem in a lot of different ways, and that is being reflected in our wildlife. And we know this because we do counts. We do spring counts. We do winter counts. We do Christmas counts. We do eagle counts. We do uh, uh, uh, uh brown-headed nuthatch counts. We do a lot of counts. Um so, all of the data that we do feeds into the national data, and it does show that there are a lot of birds decreasing in our area. And some of the things that um we work on is to improve habitat. And I think habitat can be improved anywhere in anybody's yard, no matter how big or how small. One of the problems has been that 80% of what it goes into those yards is not native. Um and that leads to a lot of problems. One of them particular is that our insects evolved along with our native plants. They did not evolve along with our non-native plants. Therefore, they cannot eat or reproduce on many of the plants that put her into our yards. And one of the reasons I think a lot of those plants are put in our yards is because we don't want them to get eaten. We don't want the deer to eat them. We don't want them this to do. But on the other hand, what happens is that we're creating um a food desert in our yards by that. So, 90% of the insects uh evolved with our local plants. And what is that important? Baby birds need insects. In fact, baby birds only eat insects. How many of you might happen to feed uh

birds in your backyard? Thank you. Um so, um they don't eat seeds. They don't eat suet. They only eat insects. And what do they like? Um

[clears throat]

uh Doug Tallamy has done a lot of research. He's an entomologist, and he's done a lot of work in this area. Um they like caterpillars. And what do caterpillars like? They like native plants. So, think about a chickadee. Uh chickadee is a very small bird. It's about an ounce. Weighs about an ounce. It usually has one brood a year, four to five eggs. um four to five very small mouths, how many caterpillars does a chickadee need to feed its chicks in order to raise them to evolve, get out out of the nest? Six. To get out of the nest, just to get out of the nest.

6,000.

6,000 to 9,000 caterpillars. And why are caterpillars important? Because they're little bags of protein that the mother can shove down those chicks' throats, and they're easy to digest. But in order to have those caterpillars, they need native plants. Um So, one of the things that we promote are keystone plants. Out of all our native plants, only 14% provide most of the food for most of our insects, and those are called keystone plants. And we have this information on our website. Um the top 10 trees for caterpillar production, and in our area, most of the host plants for butterflies and moths are trees or shrubs. They aren't perennial plants other than milkweed for monarchs, which most people know. Uh oak provides 534 different species of Lepidoptera, and the and these other trees are also providing quite a bit of food because they're native and because the the the caterpillars and the butterflies and the moths all evolved with that. So, that's one thing that's important in

creating a bird-friendly habitat, and why this park is important cuz there's a lot of native trees in this park. Um the other thing that is important is to have vegetative layers within the park, um including canopy trees, which I just expressed are very important, midstory trees, understory. And these this is important because birds live at different levels. They don't always live uh at our viewing level, even if you're feeding them. So, one of the problems I think with the Roberson Park uh has been expressed to me is that there are a lot of non-natives or invasive species. Uh how many of you are familiar with invasive species? Sounds like you are. You've been through it a little bit. I have spent countless hours removing invasive species from an area in Chapel Hill. Um you know, they're non-native, they're harmful to our environment. Um they're introduced and not all introduced species are are bad, um but at the same time um they're not necessarily what helps anything in our ecology. So, one of the things that we have proposed is to do an evaluation of this park and provide some information on what species are, which I think you already know some of that, but as well as that to also uh point out what the good uh native species are that you should be focusing uh on and want to bring in when you remove the invasive. So, things that are familiar with are the Japanese stiltgrass, the Elaeagnus. These are common privet. These are ones that are typically found within all of our counties, unfortunately, I will say. Um and um I think stiltgrass is terrible because it not only does it cover it cover up most native seedlings, it also secretes um uh chemicals that suppress native plants from growing. So, it does two things that are very bad uh for our

environment. And I feel like I should, since I have been given the opportunity to at least talk to you guys, talk about some other things. Uh obviously, you're working on your UDO. Up to a billion birds die from window strikes each year in the US. And most of those strikes are not high-rise buildings, although that's where we hear about them. Most of the bird strikes are on low-rise uh in the first 100 ft of a bird building, and I would like for you to think about bird safe uh construction, and that there are some models out there for that. And also in residences, there are some things that can be done to help for create bird-friendly buildings. Um lights out this time of year is migration. Um it's starting now and going through the end of November, and New Hope for Alliance has partnered with Durham, Chapel Hill, Hillsborough, Durham County, and Orange County for a lights out initiative, which is communicating to the public the need to turn off outside lights during migration. Uh birds migrate at night and by the stars, and uh outdoor lighting uh impacts the birds' migration. And they That's what causes them to collide often. So, we would be love to partner with you on communicating how to get that information out. Um so, going back to just a general list of solutions, native plants, water, removing basic plants, keep cats indoors, lights out and prevent window collisions, reduce turf, leave your leaves, which is another program that we are we're big on, um eliminate or avoid the use of pesticides, uh provide nest boxes, and advocate for policies to protect wildlife. Those are all things that are important, especially as we develop more and more land. So, this is just and I have given Carrie a bunch of our brochures and information about bird-friendly habitat certification

program, as some of as well as some of our other programs to distribute to you after the the meeting. Um and then, you know, I think together, working together, we can do more to create a bird-friendly community. That's it. Any questions?

The uh leaving the leaves benefits birds.

Oh, in many ways. It's not only good for birds because birds, a lot of birds eat the bugs in leaves. Our deciduous forest evolved so that when the leaves fall and the insects also most of the insects over winter in the leaves, moths and butterflies, fireflies, a lot of larval bugs over winter in the leaves and that's where they they stay. So when you remove your leaves, you're also removing all of those insects. And and there's also creates better soil conditions. It holds up to 2 inches of water. So if you leave your leaves on your ground, you're also helping with storm water and helping to purify water. So there's just a lot of different things that leaving your leaves does. Does that answer your question? Thank you. Thank you.

Do you know of any successful communities that do that? Leave your leaves programs.

Yeah, we have been running a program. Actually, we've been working with Matt Jones at the Ag Extension agent here to promote that here as a leave your leaves program. We've been doing it in Chapel Hill and also in Durham for a number of years putting out signs, encouraging people through information to leave your leaves and we've been seeing a big change. In Chapel Hill, they recently stopped doing their leaf pick up. Some of that was for budgetary reasons, I will say. But we had been working with them for three or four years on educating the public on the benefits of leaving the leaves, especially for biodiversity, but also for storm water. It helps improve

quality of water because it sinks into the ground, it doesn't run off like it does with turf and other things.

These clog in storm water and they create nutrients that flow into uh Lake Jordan uh and other waterways uh because if you like in Chapel Hill where I live, they would blow them out to the curb and that one creates safety hazards because you have to walk around those or cars have to go around them. It also creates problems because it gets into the gutters and then into the water supply that way.

What do you recommend?

I recommend that people leave their leaves on their property for the most part. And you know, a lot of people would you know, want to leave their lawns um um you can grind it up in the lawns. I don't recommend that because it's not good for the insects which you are wanting to promote also. So I I recommend putting it around uh shrubs and trees. Extending the drip line for most trees is actually healthier for trees uh because then it allows more of the nutrients from those leaves to infiltrate and help the trees grow. It also helps with our soil and biomass.

electronic records when that uh was initiated by the Board of Commissioners and there's nothing to my knowledge in the in the public record uh indicating when how far back that dates.

Mhm.

But it's a a long time certainly. Um and uh I think uh there's a whole lot of folks who really appreciate the bird population we do still have.

And um I do hear from folks, neighbors, residents, businesses that would like to see those bird populations increase. Um so Thank you very much for helping the public understand what we can do in that direction. Um I'm also very eager uh to empower the uh New Hope Bird Alliance to do this study at the uh Roberson Creek Park. Um I understand that there was a that uh But that was not disturbed. This all wildlife, I think.

Yes.

Um and so that's really impressive. I've seen the two beavers in the pond myself. Um it's just a really special piece of land, so I'm excited about the possibility of working with you.

All right, great. Thank you. Um yeah, we're looking forward to working with you and to helping improve that habitat so that it is better for all kinds of wildlife and for people as well. And it will also improve the storm water runoff, which I think is also uh something that everybody every municipality is deal- dealing with flood mitigation at this point in time with the intense rains that we get.

Yes. Up next, a presentation from Rewild Within, Amy Allen.

Good. My name is Amy Allen, and I'm the owner, founder, and director of Rewild Within. And if you take a look at this amazing photo here, this is the beginning of

what could for Robinson Creek Park. Uh this is a community-powered restoration project that's going on here. I just moved here not too long ago at the end of September and I met Commissioner Bonnett and I met Commissioner Hunsinger and I met several people from the community. And I was like I have found my people. So a little bit about me, I'm from North Carolina. Uh I am an App State alumni. I have my degree in biology and my mom lives in Asheville. That's where I grew up. I have over 10 years of experience with ecological restoration on in the west in Colorado where I took on uh mobilizing thousands of volunteers to work on catastrophic floods and fires. My specialty is in invasive weed eradication with volunteers as well as native seed collections as well as big tree plantings and the list goes on and on. Uh I have proven experience with working with with cities, agencies, as well as national parks. I've worked with variety of from 10 to 300 volunteers on a project. So I am here and my my dream is to help the city of Pittsburgh continue to grow and build a community of volunteers to help heal the land. So I came into all of these crazy critters in uh yeah that we started in February and um with a goal in to take out all the invasive species. Not all of them, but we focused on the privet. And when you bring volunteers together, it's

such an incredible experience. You have this this feeling of community pride. You You learn about the land, and there is no better place to have community than here in Pittsburgh. So, take a look at this beautiful photo. Not so pretty. This is privet that has taken over the area here in Robinson Creek. This is our before. Dun dun dun. And this is after. This is Yeah, I'll I'll show you the stats in a minute, but you can see this beautiful Eastern red cedar in the the front ground there. Beautiful black walnuts. Places for the birds to gather. Um yeah, we took out the privet. We added some mulch. And what is so flipping cool is there are natives coming up that were in the seed bank ready to go. We did have We did have uh some native seed added to that. Uh we suppressed it with some mulch there, but it is beautiful, and it is thriving, and it is a place to for our ecosystem to grow and heal. So, yes. We have in Robinson Creek the largest black walnut of Chatham County by uh the grand trees of Chatham did tell us about it. And it's fun for all. We want to create um volunteer experiences. Not only are, you know, you're you're getting the the privet out, but you're also able to grab some mulch and clip trees and provide, you know, experiences for for families and for boy scouts and for corporate groups. And all of these amazing fun people can all come together. So, here is our outcome from February to April. We had uh 79 individual attendances, eight projects, over 200-plus volunteer hours. We had about

10 uh volunteers per project. And that equip that equals $6,000 of uh free skilled ecological labor to the city of Pittsburgh. Um this is not a number I just made up. This is from Independent Sector. They are used by agencies as well as nonprofits to uh determine the value of volunteers per hour. So, pie in the sky. What if we had an MOU? What if we could do more? What What would happen? Well, we would be build community engagement. We would build collaboration. All of these these organizations that you see are already talking. They're already working together. They're already to go. Uh new New Hope Alliance, you just heard from them. We've been talking with Grand Trees of Chatham. And all of these people have something amazing to bring to the table. And that's That's my jam. That's what I do. I like to find the people the right person at the right place at the right time to do the right things. So, if we did all this, collaboration is going to grow. That That's going to have a much bigger number of of organizations working together. You're going to have a lot more people working together. Um And then after Robinson, what if we did worked on town Town Lake Park Trail? What if we worked on the Robinson Creek? What if we did litter cleanups? I'm I love litter cleanups. I love annual litter cleanups. It's so much fun to bring people together. I've been walking Robinson Creek pathway quite a bit, so I know the need for that. Especially in the wintertime when you can see it all and you can get it and you can attack. It's really fun.

So, another reason why it's win-win is because um Rewild Within would uh take on the insurance uh position and the risk liability in this matter. We also are very strict on our safety policies. We're very strict on

our volunteer waivers. And we're using science-based execution. We're not just going out there all hodgepodge, figuring it out as we go. We are using best practices in the field. I have over 10 years experience with that stuff. And I'm also working with experts. I am not working in a vacuum. And that's just how I am. So, so yeah, your true return on investment is pretty darn great. Like, you get you get you get you know, minimal cost for for the city of Pittsburgh, and you get a lot. You get a lot done. So, we can hit the ground running. So, what could what's up? What what What do we do first? So, ecological planning. We work with New Hope Bird Alliance. We learn about the different species that are needed. We learn what needs to be taken out, and we can adjust and pivot from there. We're also going to be planning out what projects are going to be going into place and when. And then we're going to be promoting that. We haven't promoted a single project, like really marketed hard. Like, yes, there has been some social media posts here and there, but but wow, what if we actually organized everything and executed and brought it all together and made it alive and and uh it's going to be pretty fun stuff. So, uh the second part of that is of course um yes, we're going to be work I'm going to be working on the funding, uh finding funding from other places other than from from the city of Pittsburgh. And third, I'm going to be working with Katie and and we're going to be coordinating of what's what's going to work and what's not going to work, and I'll be doing monthly progress reports. And this is all scalable to future projects for for Pittsburgh and all the fun things that we can do in the future. So, I wanted to keep it short and sweet and

That's a great picture.

Isn't it great? That was taken at the

end of July. That is the the champ I believe that is the champion black walnut there. Yes. Yep. Any questions?

years who showed up. Tell us a little bit about the diversity and and ages and demographics and such.

Yeah, I believe our youngest I believe was around 13 years old and then we had yeah a couple yeah 13 and then I I don't you know, we had a bunch of you know, the seniors here are freaking like they're Hercules man. Do you you can't you don't mess around with the seniors here. They they get stuff done and they're powerful. So, we have a lot a wide variety. Our goal is to have even more of a wide variety, but we were able to pilot it with a younger um to older generation and seeing those folks work in side by side next to each other sharing stories having conversations helping each other out of hey, maybe you should try it this way or or have you used this approach? It's it's pretty amazing. So,

And how much of the privet and autumn olive was removed?

Yeah, um for last year uh we had about 2 acres of privet by hand removed. So, we're hoping to do a lot more than that this year.

Yeah. Thanks so much.

I can add some personal testimony to this because I participated in several of volunteer days. If we could go back to that image for just a second, please. The uh Maybe staff can do that.

Yeah. So, that image? Um remember that the photograph of the wall of Chinese privet and autumn olive is what we are looking at. It was a 12-15 ft wall. So, it was impenetrable. Uh you really couldn't walk through it. You definitely couldn't see through it. And that tree was So, rediscovered. I mean, it's been there for It was really thrilling experience uh made investment treaty I highly recommend these Thanks. Yeah.

So, we have a MOU with Rewild Within uh in our package as well. I will take a motion to adopt the Rewild Within LLC MOU for Robinson Creek Park.

So moved.

Thank you.

Bob, for a second.

Third.

All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Uh up next we have a public hearing for the development fees ordinance for fiscal year 2026-2027. I'll take a motion to enter the public hearing.

I second

Thank you Commissioner Foley, second Commissioner Bonnets. All those in favor say I.

I

Okay, all right.

In the public hearing, Heather.

We had just two minor changes to the ordinance. The one was to add an additional fee per acre to They're both highlighted in the memo and

I don't have it in front of me, but there was one was to add a fee per acre to one of that was left off when we did the revisions and then the other fee that we added was to an amendment to I believe a construction plan submission. So and that is half the original fee and that is what was in the prior years ordinance that was also left off when we did the revision to the development fee ordinance. Yes. They they should be highlighted. The changes are highlighted. Yep. So those are the two changes to the schedule.

There's a list of Right. But there's a list of fees that will be affected by house house Senate Bill 445. And I I really think we should look at it before we agree on approving this. Maybe just take them. Have Has Has the staff reviewed this?

Yes. This was These changes were

recommended by our engineering department. So, because they were previous fees that were on there that were just with the adoption of the new fee schedule as of July 1st, they were inadvertently left off. That's the only change. Yeah.

Let me Let me talk about the affordable housing fee, $120,000. I do know that the language of this bill, 445, uh requires us to justify our fee. And I I think that's something that we want to talk about. $120,000 is probably about right. But it all depends on market rates and where we we we put place our AMI numbers. 80% And I think a more of valued approach would be instead of a flat number like we're doing, to justify it to the General Assembly by saying, "Let's take a market rate for this lot. Let's say it's $600,000. And then you say 80% AMI, which is 250. And the difference would be the fee that we would charge. It's justifiable more justifiable viewed that way than just an arbitrary number of 120. It's very fluid and it it keeps up with exactly what the cost of living is. And it also keeps up with the markets. As a realtor I know they go up and down. So uh I would I would like to encourage us to take a look at that. Maybe set that aside and we can talk about it. I don't know if if uh the development director has addressed that or not. But I think it's a it's a way that we could probably uh avoid any pushback from the General Assembly.

Yeah, well I mean we will review the the changes that are in that Senate Bill 445. And we will make those changes when we

have to. We can make a change in a future version of the fee schedule.

you're saying is we approve what is right what is

Yep.

uh in before us tonight. But then you have enough fluidity to reassess at any given time and shape it in a later month.

The only requirement is that we have to have a public hearing when we're making a change to the development fee schedule. Yep.

It's a fee. It's a fee. But what you know, I don't really there's been so much activity from the General Assembly and I don't know why particular but all these bills are coming out and a lot of them have to do with affordable housing, they have to do with parking, they have to do with municipality power municipal power and how we uh conduct our EDOs. So we need to be very careful with our language. And I guess I think we get [clears throat] to talk about that. I don't think this is the agenda tonight to do that but or is it?

[clears throat]

You're right. I think we can pick it up in the future and 445 is not law yet.

Yeah, well it was voted 37 to nothing. By the uh, Senate. So you don't see that very often in the General Assembly, uh, both sides agreeing on something. But, this is 37 to nothing. So, I think they're focused on this valley and how we're doing things. And, uh, I think there's also focus on economic development. So, uh, we as we as commissioners really need to be sensitive to the things that are coming out with, uh, So, yeah, I don't know what I got now.

Yeah, I certainly don't want to attract undue attention from the state legislature. Um, and I appreciate your comments, Commissioner Foley. I think that, uh, given that this was an inadvertent omission, um, I think we can proceed with,

uh, the approving this schedule tonight. That's my suggestion, but I would also like, um, either the assistant manager or the town manager to speak about the legal defensibility of doing that. The action proposed for tonight.

Yeah, we have no attorney here.

Yeah, certainly with, I mean, you mentioned the affordable housing specifically. That was not an arbitrary number. I did not

Oh, sorry. I didn't mean to imply that.

No, that's okay. I I did the calculation kind of just exactly as you described. Like, what is the difference between a housing unit for 80% AMI compared to what the average market house was going for. It was actually 156,000. But, we felt like going from 85 to 156.

Right. So, it was a discussion in the

What are we in now? 26, 27? So, that was in the discussion of 25, 26 fiscal year.

Right.

Being that 156,000 is a lot of money, we just left it at

at 120.

Yeah, just left it.

Um, the my only concern is that we have to defend it.

Sure.

And to do that would be using something that is defensible.

So, Ms. Armstrong went through each kind of style of permit or application that you might submit, looked at the number of staff hours that would be used to process one of those, and then did the uh the fees according to that. Okay. Okay.

I'm happy.

Okay. Commissioner

So moved.

Thank you. Commissioner Bonitz.

Second.

Second. Commissioner Farber. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye. Um and take a

Motion to adopt the development fee ordinance for fiscal year 2026-2027.

Commissioner Farber.

All those in favor, say aye.

Motion passes. Up next, we have a public hearing for PB-26255

Hydro 2 Rezoning request. I'll take a motion to enter the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you. Commissioner Bonitz.

Second.

Second. Commissioner Farber. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Good evening, Mayor. Good evening, board. This is general use rezoning case uh PB-26225, otherwise known as Hydro 2. And purse UDO section 10-412, a general use rezoning is to amend the zoning district map to a base zoning district that already exists, and subjects all future development in the district to all of the development regulations that are applicable to that new base zoning district. The subject property is approximately 5.98 acres and is located south and east of the Powell Place subdivision along Highway 15-501. The property is currently veget- vacant and vegetated with existing concrete pads and some asphalt, um, as you can see. And the property is also considered a brownfield site because it was a previously used industrial manufacturing facility. The property is currently zoned heavy industrial, which is the M2 district, and the adjacent zoning districts to the north, south, and west are the mixed-use planned development district associated with Pal Place. Um, and to the east, across 15-501, you have a mixed-use planned development district and highway commercial district, which is the C2 district. The applicant is proposing to rezone the property to highway commercial to match across 15-501. Pittsboro land use map classifies the subject property as employment mixed-use within that mixed-use activity center. And so, the proposed rezoning to highway commercial C2 is consistent with the

land use classification. Applicant conducted a community meeting on April 26th, or sorry, April 16th, 2026. Um, the community report is attached in your packet. And as previously mentioned, the proposed rezoning is to amend the current M2 zoning district to the C2 zoning district. And all of the principal uses, uh, per UDO section 3.2.4, um, principal use table, and the accessory uses per UDO section 3.3.4, accessory use and structure table, um, within the C2 zoning district would be permitted on this property. The Pittsboro land use map classifies subject property again as employment mixed-use within the mixed-use activity center. And the proposed rezoning to highway commercial is consistent with the land use classification. The highway, uh, commercial district in the Pittsboro UDO is intended to provide lands to accommodate retail, office, and service areas to serve the town and the region. Development allowed includes a mix of retail, office, eating, entertainment, medical, vehicle sale, and service uses that would serve community-wide needs. The Planning Board heard this at their July 20th meeting and unanimously recommended approval. And planning staff also recommends approval of the general use rezoning case as proposed by the applicant. Uh I kind of sped through that. My my apologies. I'm happy to answer any questions, but I can also turn it over to the applicant and I believe they have a presentation as well. I might pass it over to him, but I'll I'll come back.

All right, that's fine.

Good evening, members. My name is Jody Lightoff. I live at 481 Bennett Mountain Trace, and I appreciate the time to speak on this rezoning. Um this is a fairly clean rezoning, 6 acres of a former we call it the Hydrotube, but that was a operating business at the time. Um and uh we were able to purchase this um and we went under contract about a year ago, and at that time we submitted a redevelopment plan for to the DEQ for the brownfield. It hasn't been fully accepted. We've done all the paperwork. It just goes back It just takes a while, even though we're trying to do the express brownfield cleanup, we just haven't It hasn't [clears throat] been completed yet. What we do know is that it has to deal with some groundwater, and then we'll develop some techniques. During our due diligence, we did put in monitors. We have we are starting to get a develop understanding of what was there prior. And I would say that, you know, the site's been vacant for 18 years. And so this opportunity to clean the site up and get it back into an economic driver for the town of Pittsboro is really what we're all about here. And it seems pretty clean. Um it's the same ownership as Paul Place, so all the surroundings. So now there's that ability to co- hesive development plan. For, you know, along Paul Place Lane, there was like a 30-ft spike strip that Paul Place owned. So you couldn't access the HydroTube site from Paul Place. Now that opens up that possibility for inter-parcel connectivity and getting into the cruisers as well. So I think it's um appropriate and I'm glad to answer any questions. I've got some historic images, you know, I think um the uh building came down in a approximately 2008 is when that building was demolished. And, you know, if you go back to the original, if you go through Chatham County GIS historic photos, you know, the original construction was 1979, thereabouts.

And at that time the bypass wasn't there. Lowe's Food or Lowe's Home Improvement wasn't there. And this is an industrial site that the community has since grown up in and around. And I think modifying that land use to be in alignment with what's happening today is appropriate.

Mentioning the uh ownership context and uh the adjacent properties being owned all the same same ownership. Uh I appreciate you mentioning the opportunity for connectivity. That was going to be my very first question is what do you envision uh the what kind of connectivity do you envision because I think that we've already previously approved some residential behind this. Is that right?

Well, what you approved was the additional units to the original Pal Place MUPD. So, you know,

Higher density though?

Uh, little higher density. And so, what we're trying to work through is really creating Pal Place Lane as the kind of Main Street. And I think historically, you know, just going back and looking at the site now, most of the frontage was sold off. So, you really couldn't begin to develop that view shed and that value deeper in the parcel. This allows us to do it a little more cohesive. So, you get longer view sheds and can get more of that mixed-use context around Pal Place Lane. In addition, you know, we've got the stormwater management ponds and then the stream that runs through this protected wetland. So, getting trails through there and connecting to the open space that we had presented via pathways, trails, sidewalks. Yeah, we I mean, we want it to be a unified development that people can walk from Pal Place into this parcel.

And you're calling this Pal Place Lane?

Oh, that's the original. Uh, that's the road name right now.

Okay.

Yeah. So, if you take a right at the Subway / Refuel, that's Pal Place Lane right there. So, that's what we're seeing is a commercial wants tends to

want to be towards 64 where residential tends to want to be by the existing town homes and old Ross Spring Cemetery Road and the proposed daycare that's going in. Mhm. And church. Yeah. That's a fair compromise.

I have I have a couple questions starting. Thank you. Um, first off, there's a there's a considerable drop. It's cool back there, by the way.

Yeah.

Uh, I

Did you appreciate Well, we did go back and we have cleaned it up since we've purchased it and went in and just the existing asphalt parking lots and just tried to make it a safer environment back there.

It's surrounded by probably private. But it's it's it makes it private. It's a great place to have a sandwich back there.

Yes.

Or or just read a book.

There's beautiful canopy.

Where are the streetlights working?

Our parking lot lights are still there but don't work.

There's a little bunch of concrete there. Is that coming up? How you

I would presume so. I mean, I think there'll be a pretty comprehensive redevelopment to where using the existing asphalt or the loading dock, I think that, you know, when we get into our specific development plans, we'll it'll be hard to preserve that.

Okay. It's a little bit more difficult question. Okay. You so there's right right be it by the loading dock, there's a

Yeah.

6-ft drop, maybe?

Yep.

Mhm. 5-6 ft. And then it flattens out. It's mainly water back there.

Mhm.

Um the brown site

Brown site, yeah.

Uh brownfield Uh what were the chemicals that were identified as

I don't have that specifically. I in our um application Did I just leave that? There were some solvents that got into the ground water.

Solvents?

Like cleaners, you know, when they used to bend the hydraulics.

So like hydrocarbon

Yeah, I think let me just pull that out real quick. Um chlorinated solvents was found in the soil and ground water.

Okay.

And then a little bit of petroleum vapor

intrusion is what's noted on the application.

Okay, and that was uh 50 years ago.

Um

Or was it one of the

Well, the it was stopped. Yeah, it was decommissioned. I want to say in 2007-2008. So it's been sitting that way for 18 years.

Okay.

And that's just me going through the aerial photos saying building there, not there.

When when will you have an idea of what it is exactly? Cuz we as a I am a board member, I'm concerned that I'm going to approve something that's dangerous.

Well, I think, you know, we've um in you know, the application's available publicly that we've filed. Um hopefully, you know, we've paid the extra amount for the express. Um and what you know, we don't know if we're eligible yet or not.

To build on it.

Right.

On the site.

Right. I mean, until we get the final sign-off from DEQ, we won't know the eligibility.

So, the procedure today then it would be

Rezone it today.

Rezone it. Okay.

So, when we bring a site plan, I think in you know, probably it's a longer process than we all want to get through DEQ and then the brownfield program, but I think there's a lot of good potential. One of the things that you'll note, uh Elizabeth was wonderful in her presentation, right? Um she did not mention residential. And so, residential, even though it's allowed in the C2 use, will not be allowed on this site. So, and she was very careful in her analysis and so, it's wonderful. You know.

Okay.

No residential, and then you know, it's really just about the containment and the type of construction when we get into there.

Well, you know, when Palm Place was first conceived and developed, there was a lot more commercial that was supposed to be coming down.

Right.

Palm um

Milbrook Drive and Palm Place Lane. So, I'm I'm glad to see that you're starting with that.

Yes, I think that, you know, there's uh you know, it's going to take uh the right thing to stimulate that mixed-use in that commercial portion. Yes, we've always been committed to providing that coffee shop and beer garden that all the residents want. And with 300 new units behind Pal Place, it just adds to the context of the why to make it and how to be successful when we do it.

I got one more question for you.

Yes.

There's a beautiful tree on the corner of Pal Place Drive.

I I think I chain made that promise just knowing I need to see the location, but I think it's within that easement and there's buffers and you know, our set back building set backs, parking set backs. If I go through with Elizabeth, we'll try to figure out way to get there.

Thank you. Thank you, Jody.

You're welcome.

Jody, one regarding the brown field after you get your test and all, is it a possibility that will come off of that land? It would not be considered.

No, it will stay in a brown field remediation program. So, it always have that designation.

So, I understand. So, you make the application.

And then it's on the onus of the owner of the land to monitor and make sure that it's all contained. It's a

It will be a ongoing problem.

It is. It is.

Payment or testing?

I did one other brown field redevelopment site up in Front Royal for Virginia and it was we were capping basins. It was wild, you know.

Oh, sorry. That's not going to help add to the

brown field.

Edward Holmes and I'm the property owner. Brown fields is really a protection for the property owner to buy the property. It has nothing to do with the previous contamination. And so, I bought the property without having the brown fields in place. The brown fields gives me an additional environmental protection and for future claims coming off the property. It also has to do something there's some tax credits that I'm not applying for that because I don't even understand them. But it's just a designation it would help me to make the property more ma- it marketable in the future should I want to sell it. Suppose a grocery store or bank or someone comes there. It helps them know that the that whatever the contamination in the ground below them they have no liability for. But the property can be utilized with or without the um brownfield designation. That's just an an added benefit. And the chem- chemicals we know what they are. They're Jody probably's never seen the report and I can get you a copy of what the environmental consultants found there.

Ed- Ed- Ed- Edward for- tell me if I'm right in this regard. I think it also helps document uh publicly uh these contaminants and gives you as the owner insights into how to uh avoid risk in future like how to encapsulate it or cover it or prevent uh penetrating the the contaminant or something like that.

That's correct. And so we

exposure.

Correct. And so if there's certain uses of the property that we'll never be able to do a daycare I believe is one of them. There are a couple of things like outdoor playgrounds for children. But when we build a building if there's any soil vapor we'll have that test and put a vapor barrier down and then it um but I don't think that's going to be an issue. The other the back of the brownfields, the reason brownfield acts occurred to begin with is there were so many industrialized properties all over the place that were abandoned and left in place because no one wanted to go and take the environmental risk and it was unproductive land and so they created this act and hence entice people to go take sites that have contamination and take the risk to put

them back in production and utilize property that's perfectly fine. It's just something up under it that um has that issue.

This hearing. So, I'll take a motion to close the public hearing.

I have one one more comment before we we go further. Uh we we get we get to all right as a board member understand that there are there is a brownfield connotation to this. And I want to make sure that we are not liable in any way if we approve this. Not the reason I'm voting, but the project hasn't moved forward. So, and I know that we have to go through our town attorney who's not here today, but uh we we get to take this carefully.

You would have to go back to the public health and welfare welfare of our citizens.

Yes.

Yeah.

And we'll have staff's guidance on that.

That's it. Thank you.

All right. Take a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonats.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor, say I.

I.

All right. Any other discussion?

Home case PB-26- 225 Hydrotube.

Thank you.

Second, Commissioner Bonats. Any other discussion?

I'll just say I think uh this is great. I'm glad that it's finally moving forward. Uh we'd certainly need more commercial in town and the prospect of reusing this land in a way that is uh safe is very enticing and I look forward to learning more about it. I think the first step is this rezoning, so I'm glad we're voting on it.

Thank you. All those in favor, say I.

I.

Thank you. Motion passes. All right. Uh up next we have an action item, uh Chatham County Agricultural and Industrial Fair Association Greenway Easement.

Jonathan. Thank you, sir. So, yeah, I had Paul draft this up because it essentially is asking you all to give me blanket authority to sign an easement with the Fair Grounds Association once we figure out the details, but I had him type it up because I didn't want to be the one asking you all to give me blanket authority to That's right.

Good idea.

We're pretty close. There's only a few minor things about gate locations, etc., but all minor things.

This is I'm sure generally looking for to add basically the word greenway to an existing to two existing easements across the Fair Grounds property. Currently, there's a 20-ft easement with a sewer line in it. There's a 20-ft easement without a sewer line in it, and they would like to install a greenway in that same easement. Unfortunately, legally, they don't have that right at the moment because greenway is not listed in the existing easements. So.

How do we How do we

We remedy that by this agreement.

Okay. This is the missing piece really from the greenway from downtown on Sanford Road out to the new park.

Yes, this piece will connect to Roberson Creek Park, which one day I think will have probably a different name, maybe not, to MLK. And then Chatham Park has agreed as part of their affordable housing element in partnership with Roberts Run, which is the Habitat for Humanity project, to then build a greenway from MLK to Small Street, which will then tie into the existing Roberson Creek Greenway that ties into that.

I know how much effort uh the staff has placed on this and I also feel like it's a win-win uh for the uh the owners of the property. So, uh thank you for your efforts.

You said 2 years?

He said maximum 3 years to get this completed.

I'll I'll thank you. I'll thank you in 3 years.

Perfect.

Yeah.

Just don't make that part of the motion, please.

All right. Any other questions?

I'll make a motion to adopt resolution authorizing town manager to negotiate the Greenway easement.

Thank you. Is there a second?

I'll second.

Mr. Thurber, all those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All right. Motion passes. Up next, we have a budget amendment uh before that Greenway easement?

Yes.

Any questions on this?

I'll make a motion to approve the budget amendment for funding this Greenway easement uh purchase.

Is there a second?

Second.

Mr. Foley, any discussion? All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

All right. And I will take a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Uh so moved.

Thank you, Mr. Botts.

There.

Seconds, Mr. Thurber. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Thank you.