Board of Commissioners Special

We'll call this special meeting of the board of commissioners for September 28, 2026 to order. And as we begin, I'll remind the board that our code of ethics and rules of procedure call on us to treat one another, town staff, and the public courtesy, dignity, and respect. And in front of us, we have the agenda that was put out for the special. So, can I get a motion to approve the agenda?

Closer. I got a second.

Thank you, Mr. All those in favor say I.

I. Thank you. The two items on the agenda this evening. The first one is the new town hall project update. Okay.

Okay. to discuss the new platform project. We have our architect here, HH Architecture. But before they present what they've been working on, just want to do a a quick recap. So, I added a bullet point in here just to bring it back to the project from 2020. This is at the pop-up park. Um it was a 42,000 square foot town hall building, four stories, which unfortunately didn't it got designed and bid, but um didn't go to construction due to cost. Fast forward last year, the town purchased the property at 20 205 J 204J Barrel site um down Thompson Street about a 7 minute walk from downtown

or the new town hall. And then in September, a preliminary project analysis and feasibility study was presented by Hobbes and that really um kind of informed the space needs of the new town hall and also kind of the positioning on the site. And then we went through um a couple of RFUS and selected H architecture for a design and edit this as our construction manager at risk last spring. Um they kind of took the feasibility study and further developed it. Uh we had a community engagement meeting in June at the community house where uh we got feedback from um some some residents on what they like to what they want to see in the town hall and kind of what what they want it to look like. And so that kind of um took the town hall design into this schematic design development stage. And we got a preliminary cost estimate from edifice. Again, that was they they put a a cost on over 300 construction items in order to to give us what they expected the project cost. So we did do some value engineering. Um we kind of made the spaces more efficiency more efficient shrunk shrunk some of the offices and came up with this 18,000 foot building two stories. There's a legislative wing with the boardroom and have an admin wing. And again, this is this is the construction cost estimate we received based on the building program and also

the kind of narrative that goes around the rendering that you all were presented a couple weeks ago. So it's building construction of 10.9 million and then we have other costs associated with with constructing building. And then again this is this the initial schedule for March. We're still um in the blue. Um ultimately the goal is to have a building constructed by the end of 2028 which is when current lease is up as the main street station. And so we are currently scheduling design to kind of take us through the end of the year. um hopefully getting things together next spring to get financing. So with that, let Daniel back up. Hi Thank you so much for that staff. Thank you for uh your decision to slow things down and take a second look at the exterior design. Really appreciate it. It's given us a chance to kind of reflect on some of the feedback we got last night. I do have some slides. pretty good. Is it bad? Yeah. Say

back up. Um, in considering the the feedback we got two weeks ago, I think it became clear to the page changes that we made have had some fundamental misunderstandings of how the board and and the town at large is thinking of this project. And um, I think we've made it our primary goal of this meeting to correct that and find some alignment between those critical misunderstandings. And we've essentially boiled it down to three key parameters. the site, the significance and the silhouette of the building. Um, each of these have a range of options between the week streams which I'd like to review at the audience today and then present a few options that um incorporate different ratios for those. Um, while um we're presenting additional options tonight um and I would love for y'all to be able to pick one tonight. What's more important to me and I think to HH and to the project team in general is that we walk away with an understanding of how you are thinking of these three parameters and present a project that leads to your goals and meets your needs. Um I'm confident that HH can design anything in the full spectrum of these parameters. We just need to make sure that we're understanding them correctly. So, in starting with the site, um the kind of primary question that we walked away with is is this site suburban or is it downtown? And does the building that gets built here need to fit into the neighborhood around it and have that neighborhood feel or because of its importance and because of its prominence because of its purpose uh need to better fit in with the downtown scale and the downtown material pallet and massing.

Um what we understood was that this site is suburban. I think what we heard the last time we met is no, it needs to run a little more to downtown. um not to uh defend ourselves or try to sway the the council in any direction, but to explain the move to come. Um downtown is a 7-minute walk from the site and the built environment changes pretty dramatically from uh downtown from kind of the heart of this site. Um even thinking about the zoning um this district is an R10 which is a high density residential district which is primarily dire single family single family and multif family homes um government uses are allowable which is a good news for the project but there are strict zone and setback that's really going to reinforce a more suburban feel. Um, thinking more practically about our neighbors, essentially our 10 closest neighbors at Fairview Residences. Um, mostly single family homes, mostly single story or story and a house. So, we want to make sure whatever we put on this site feels appropriate to that context and doesn't feel out of scale or out of place, especially right next door. So again, thinking about the sites, thinking about are we suburban or are we moving to significance um the question that we foiled down to is is this building meant to be adaptable or monumental? A monumental building is um something that immediately shares its power, its presence, um its permanence on the site. It could become a landmark. Um, an adaptable building remains flexible for future use. Um, I know this is a

question, a hard question for uh the commissioners to be able to answer, but is it is this site the forever home of town hall or in decades, 10, 20 years of the same growth that we've experienced here the last 10 to 15 years? um this is building opportunities for something else and how can we best position ourselves for that? Um we wanted to share a couple of examples, local examples to illustrate this point. Um got the police department on the left there and the Adam County Justice Center on the right. The Justice Center is a monumental building. You look at it, it's iconic. It's communicating that strength and that permanence. Um, but with that monumentality comes a lack of flexibility, right? It's very hard to imagine that big news for anything other than a heavy civic use. On the flip side, on the opposite end of the spectrum, the police department um is an attractive enough building um but way less monumental, right? Um it could be used for multiple purposes and in fact already has been attackable previously. It's the police department. Now you can easily imagine it as professional offices or doctor's office in the blue term. So very clearly distinguishing that adapted building from the monumentality. Last is silhouette and silhouette is really how does a building want to work? What style does it employ? Um how do people feel about it when they look at? And the kind of simplest way to boil that down is modern or traditional. Um there's a broad spectrum in between those two things and a lot of definitions for those two words. But the way I'm thinking of it is um a modern building is of its time and place or maybe even forward thinking. A

traditional building is taking pride in the heritage of its place and and looking up to the history and the existing landmarks to take designs from. Um, we assume it's modern. I think we heard traditional the last time we met. Now, to give another uh set of examples here and somewhat local. On the left, you have a modern building. That's a Hage project in Ashboro. That's the Randolph County A Center. Um, for a modern building, we can expect to see clean lines, a simple material pallet, large and likely asymmetrical openings. Um, in this case, we kind of thought of this building as a modern interpretation of a agricultural building. Um, on the other end of the spectrum is a traditional building, which doesn't necessarily mean a true historic building. Um, in this case, we're looking at county ann, um, is looking to the past to create a more traditional aesthetic. using that historical material pallet, the brick, the stone, more regular window openings, symmetry across its center axis, all of those things kind of pulled together a more traditional aesthetic. So, in thinking about our original design and how it fit on the scale, kind of thinking of a sliding scale of each of these grand from one extreme to the other, um we presented an extreme. It was a fully suburban, fully adaptable, fully modern uh interpretation of the site, which in hindsight we should have realized would be polarizing, right? Um, something else that I want to call attention to, and I I don't feel like I'd be doing my job as your architect if I didn't. Um, we heard a lot of input to start moving these icons towards the right side of the screen only last night, but there is a very real cost

impact to doing so. So, while we had good reasons to choose suburban adaptable environment, more than anything, we understood our assignment was to get this building back in the budget. And so, we tried to employ the most cost effective combination of lease factors to do that. Um, so we're going to look at three options. um one that's almost the opposite extreme and then two that are in the middle. Um but before we do so, I just want to make it clear that if we move in any direction from this original design, we are likely adding construction not to defend but more so to give you a frame of reference where we were coming from that how we were deploying those. This was a suburban adaptive model suburban in its scale and massing. Um also its material choices particularly on street facing facades. So uh we were looking at more residential siding facing J barrels street. Um, it was modern in its kind of simplicity of form and its bold single slope uh l and then it was adaptable in that it used cost effective material selections. Um, the massing is way more horizontal than vertical as you might expect for a traditional city building. Um, and you can imagine this building serving many purposes, not limited to just a town hall. Considering the feedback of the last meeting, we wanted to take steps towards the right side of the page. Um, in this first option is one of two that feel somewhat in the middle. Um, in this case, we took big steps towards downtown and its massing and material choices. Um, we moved from a highly adaptable building to something that's somewhere in the middle of adaptable with modern and then took a step towards traditional

in the silhouette. Um, but still landed a little bit more on the modern side. This is what that looks like. So, some of the modern moves were continuing that single slope route. And I should mention this is the same floor plan. Um, but we're bumping up the monumentality by raising that with several to give a more entry and sense of arrival to the building. Um, it still feels modern and that we have some asymmetrical openings um, but feels a little more monumental in its verticality and with it repeating shapes that sort of call to mind more traditional architecture. We went full break for this scheme. Um but not necessarily the bright red brick that's very associated with city buildings downtown. This probably more of an earth tone brick. Um so well make a move towards that downtown. It's not totally anyway. Here's what that might look like from the street side. Sorry. Before I leave the Thompson Street, I do want to say um we do plan for straight trees along the Thompson Street elevation. Um and in fact, we're going to be required to provide them. Um we just omitted them for the sake of the so better see the building and the utility. I wish I could, you know, wave my photo. Those are still there. Option two is also a middle ground option um but leans a little heavier on the suburban and adaptable side of the spectrum. If anything and explaining these options resonated about a more suburban building and about more adaptable building the

right option to proceed with or at least continue exploring. So, while we kept on the suburban and adaptable side of the scale, we very much cranked up the traditional scale. Um, and traditional looks different in a suburban context and a downtown context. In this case, that's what that scheme would look like. Suburban, adaptable, traditional. Um, it's suburban in its material choices and it's limited use of brick. Um the green color you're seeing would be a fiber cement board and bat and siding sighting very at home in this neighborhood. Um it's traditional and its regularity of openings and it's columnate on the porch and its divided windows. Um and it's suburban also in its change in roof form. So this is the only option we showed tonight that takes such dramatic change. Um, again the floor plan is largely unchanged, but we changed the roof to a more traditional pitch roof chamber and those high windows you're seeing will be uh into the bordering chambers um and lobby. So experiencing that height really where you want it and then bringing the scale down at the building. Um we think this is a fairly adaptable scheme in that um it doesn't scream it civic presence. Um imagine this building serving many purposes with or community center library office annex. Yeah. Obviously street. The last option is is the farthest we

went in the opposite extreme. So a very downtown friendly design, a monumental design and almost fully traditional. You'll notice that we did not go all the way traditional. In our minds to go fully traditional would be a little bit more of a replication of historic detailing um which we try to avoid as a perm. I think it's a an easy mistake to make that will feel disingenuous or inauthentic when done portery. Um so we prefer to kind of take the traditional material pallet the massing the organization and interpret it in a way that feels a little bit newer and less like a replication. Um we also tend to follow the national parks directly on that. So um every now and then we'll do a historic preservation project which is subject to the national park standards and they also provide the guidance that um you should avoid one for one replication of historic materials. Here's what that would look like. Um, so traditional in its regularity and its symmetry. Um, monumental in that there's two stories of brick here. This is the tallest theme we're looking at tonight. Um, it has that vertical rhythm calling to mind the colonies at the courthouse downtown. Um, institutional premium materials for thinking stone and the red bricks down there. um articulated columns and again that single sto presence at the entrance family. So to compare all three side by side here we've got the downtown modal modern

suburban adaptable uh traditional and downtown monal traditional. We did reach out to our construction manager for rough pricing and they were able to give us um a rough number of the construction cost increase we could expect with any one of these options. Um, options one and two came in very similar at a 2.29% increase in the cost. Option three does step up a little bit and increase the um construction to 4.13%. I'll pause. I've been speaking a long time. I I'll just start with a few thoughts. I want to say to you I think we all I think everyone pretty much interior of the program and staff and everything is put into that really of the space and down to a size that you can afford. I'm going to make primarily the comments about the exterior. So um and then uh I did go back as well and look at the the feasibility study and what when we kind of started with this project a while ago with purchasing land feasibility study and a lot of things there were the nature of the community the hopes around it was around it community house you know other structures and most concepts there were similar in in these sort of certain styles and any but I did looking

appreciate way that you're approing that scale the three different scales and the options that we have. I think it's a helpful way to to get decision. So appreciate it back a little bit like you said rethinking the options and gives you options. I wish there was a way to lighten it up just a little bit like not not tone down but like how the monumental one as the white stone I really like that one maybe soften the darkness of Washington but I like it Could you speak a little bit on where I don't imagine we are choosing two or three tonight go you know the thing but generally if we said two is the way that we want to head where does it go up there.

Yeah. uh we do not need to pay quantities and then that's the direction that we um we can take your lead on how often we need to meet again to solidify this um if you think of direction one two or three is very helpful but even more helpful than that where we um answers on these three questions I think will really put us down the right path um of how you're thinking about the building and then we can align ourselves with the exterior that just myself really favor

administration area. It seems to bring the two buildings in a little closer together. I I also like the uh gives a stuckco like it to me that gives it a more government building. Great great design. I like the ra number three roof high and the option one just it just make the building a little more together. I'm really in favor with the option too with the gable route with I don't know how we could incorporate some of that stuff in there or anything that would bring it into a a government building. So I hear you saying maybe you're talking about kind of a combination between all three options mainly because you'd like me to be able to call but you prefer um the light public on option one and prefer roofing pass on option three I like the gable the gable on the left bring the gable gambled in excuse me and

yes and one that I don't know what kind of government is but it just me it gives it the the uh the look of a government building even in the old town hall you picture it's got small on each side of the window that that represent to me government building

that's the main thing you know It's a lot. This This is a lot. And I know we had that old in the police department. The old town hall has been there 30 guess 30 plus years maybe. So I think we get more built before 1986 to us next. Yeah. 96.

Yeah. jump in next. Um for me, I do like the colors of option one. Um for me, option two is just a dark and I don't want to use that word almost for a building that's in such an exciting vibrant town. We got to remember that we are an artistic, vibrant, exciting town. Um, but I do like how that second story kind of raved up. I think that brings in a lot of light to make the um legislative area just really made me think. But there are a couple of things that I'd like to see if it's possible to incorporate. That's kind of some of our values. And um, one of those things is we talk about being a walkable path. And I do believe that we will have people walking on Thompson Street to come down. I would love to see that last area. And I'm looking at number one actually have doorways and have some seating out there and have a pathway to um for pedestrian. I would like for two entries. And I think there are a lot of good reasons to have two entities there. Um, additionally, um, I know you said you're planted trees

and I know landscaping is probably a secondary kind of consideration to this, but there are things that we've been talking about with rain gardens and so on. I would love to see that possibly rain barrels, taking the rain water from the roof and using them to irrigate all the gardens. I think that would be really nice. I would like on option one how you have the windows the the ground kind of separating uh all that but um I remember and we a lot of people like wood elements when on your dots but that could possibly be wood elements um and but the one thing that's missing on number one I may have a feel there people don't read around I this is our town hall and I would like there to be a big mind sign on or there one of your buildings do have the sign on the I mean this is our town hall and we should be like announcing it from all angles. Um but I I do I I really like that raise too. I think between the three, if we could just melt them together, we think we could get something a lot closer to what the feedback from people has been my feedback. This is a 20 25 year, right? That's pretty much what our old town hall was. So is this going to uh I just urge the commissioners to look forward 20 25 years. I I like option two first of all before doing like it's color it kind of reflects what this is but this is going to be sustainable for 25 I'm I'm looking at what's coming our way

as as a town hall as a for the town. Yeah, we have some significant development coming is this going to sustain or is it going to support this weight that we have this importance? I said yes. Any any thoughts on how this election?

That is a good point. I think it to me number one looks like a government building from 20 years ago. Um is my impression of it. I think it's distinctly governmental, but I think it's um aged to me. I think that two is probably the most adaptable. do like a college but you know I think we can we think about the current police station as it shifts over time this area I I do think that's where to kind of shine the most but that and plan for you know what happened was that I suppose that I think the expansion built into the site plan would be good for the size future. And then you know I think we I think the county um library IT building has been another good example shooting uses over time whatever that might be. So I think that you know that end up being department in 20 years from now but we'll see. Um, but I mean I think

that that's um, you know, we're not going to know all 20 years out today necessarily, but I think it is hard to think about those things and how the site can respond to those um, materials over time, you know, timeless materials like that. So I think we're in a good direction.

So want to talk about the site itself. So we purchased we didn't purchase how how was how was that land we made and notice that on the deed it says 52% we purchased it we bought it okay so I know the deed does conf they got they got credit I paid 48 or 52% of what the value So they basically the deed is for part donation of the partial interest in the property. So this conveyor has partial interest in the property itself.

No. Okay. You want 100%. Some would pay for some 52% paid for 48%. Uh so we also bought uh the two railroad property seabboard right those two par

in the process right we we've agreed to do it as a board there is there are two other parcels there there's the goodland property have we reached is it goodland it's uh yeah good in the corner there we reach out to them to sell

good partial H3BR. I'm just thinking about the future. It'd be really nice to have that over the sliver that I would like. I had reached out to the original owner of that William that originally miss but she was selling it as a package deal but the property of homeowner 236. We do know that there's some drain issues seem to work. Yeah. south and then the large that runs under the parking lot that goes I believe it comes out on the other side on the south side of the east I have video of that lot um are there plans to also devel velop the seabird properties. Not develop them, but create a garden some kind of community. What are we doing? Think for right now. We should probably

Okay. But to your question how this world I I do want to be clear that when we talk about permanence in a market scale. Whatever we design for you will be 15 plus year building. It's more so about will it continue to meet your needs over time as you're will it be big enough? Well, it still makes sense to miss questions with the long offices in this building. We had um 10 years that build out happens. Um estimated our staff mean for this building at 34 individuals 34 staff members that would be in town hall. Um so 39 offices 34 employees that's with our population at 22,500. Again we don't know quite how AI is going to affect what we do as a business. Um white will provide us some efficiencies and possibly less people but we'll see how that goes. the addition that we've also planned for 3500 footprint 7,000 total. We think we can get 25 to 32 offices in there. Um and that will likely take us to

population 507,000 because we're going to efficiencies as we grow population. That's kind of the struggles we're having now.

Yeah. And when do we pull the trigger on new position knowing that right now we don't have the math for 80% of that position we'll do better that's always thank you for this presentation Um if uh and I also appreciate your having used the phrase re is honestly as we said about this task uh I regret that I didn't play in sooner in that regard because I've never contemplated anything other than forever before our next law. Um I I feel like when we we build something we ought to build it for the ages because we our government has hopefully been opportunity maybe an obligation to build long term. Um so the adaptable has never been something that I would consider. Um, you know, we were very lucky. Um, 40, 50 years ago, they have Carolina Power give us a building. Um, but the fact that we of Pittsburgh has never um, to my knowledge in our history built our own town hall, I think makes this a very, very different kind of project. for a different um effort we're embarking on. So, I always hoped that we would see designs that were monumental

traditionally. Um I I don't view this part of town as suburban. I think of suburban as outside our ETJ uh where blocks are spaced such that houses don't see one. Um so I guess that's even our definitions of of suburban. I think of uh this neighborhood is as very much a downtown neighborhood. Um uh Commissioner Hun mentioned walkability. It's a very high priority for me and I think that that I feel that reflects our values or should reflect our values. So I agree with the need for um entrance on the front, excuse me, the north uh which I view as the front. Um, I would like to try and work away from having so much focus and emphasis on the car side entrance of the building. Um, Pittsburgh is growing. We're growing rapidly. People want to move here. Continue to want to move here. And so I think that means that our um what some have called the legacy of Pittsburgh, the older parts of town will continue to grow in density and we'll continue to welcome in new neighbors and uh new new uses. Personally, I'd love to have a coffee shop in my neighborhood. So that's the kind of mixed use and urban feel um that I think is probably in our future especially with um cost of transportation continue to increase um people are going to be I mean people are already to live our um hope that we can welcome that kind of lifestyle um And uh yeah, again, Commissioner Huner has has

suggested some uh ways to call it activate the outside. I think it'd be a real blessing to take advantage of the shading on the north side of the building for a small patio. I recognize we already have an idea of a employee patio on the on the south side of the building. um on a pad that will eventually be potentially a pad for expansion in the future. That makes sense. But it's also in full sun um all year.

Yeah. So, um in terms of the exterior finishes, um I agree with Mr. Frell and several others about favoring kind of the uh what what looks to be like reminiscent of colle um in terms of the gabled roof. My one thought is I I immediately think about solar gain and um I know that we can manage that with window coding. Um I know there's a huge array of different technology those um much more expensive than the other but um just some low humidity when they're good would be an easy way to prevent that um uh board meeting states from uh having giant solar collectors um states. And I would hope that we would have that south guess west facing windows

um to be mindful of solar gain. Um I also like the uh the very massive roof of auction 3. We also um Commissioner Her share the preference rather than having the town sealed on the building having the neighbor like what town hall and south in the in flags are

I think we should be looking to mirror again building signs that really have presence and I think that can give it presence without the expense of putting up there or I like the seal but I think you had said once upon there you could possibly like I don't know I thought there is a way to protect it on one of the wallet when you come in. No doubt I'm out of town. It should it should do that

and there should be one I think in the front as well. Um the bench or something that really makes you want to come here. If I'm walking to Thompson Street from Chhatt like the vineyards or town for hey meet me at the town hall we'll we'll be here before we head up to it be so much more. It could really be Pittsburgh's place like I'm sorry I just jumped in on there. Sorry about that.

Appreciate that. And you also covered some ideas about landscaping. I strongly agree. I think

we need to put more emphasis and budget landscaping. We do have a landscaping plan, right? That's not really even the south facing. We have everything shaped trees go there. Um, it's almost a separate design from what we're talking about tonight. Um, but just know those things are in the works. Water capture cylinder might not be a scratch if you really plan ahead. Um that being way too and could also be batteries partial of the um batteries will but I understand that the uh the top silver market is only about 60% so we might be able to get some hungry bits Um,

you just that one small thing that we had mentioned that I know I believe

several commissions also felt the same about having that extra asset from

um in the building behind it. Is that something that can be worked out? Does everybody feel still feel the same without that?

Yes, absolutely.

And we are um starting to consider that you can see on the the corner of the building facing us that would likely be that.

I thought that was going to be a drive through window. I think those kind of two different concepts though you just mentioned behind either that or an extra on the side just an extra test but another likely um depending on the site design might not call it a true exit because we could then have to pave all the way back to a public road. Um, so it may be that we include it and don't claim it ever makes it in our legacy. You know what I do like about option two though? It kind of gives a nod to the old and kind of um so to me option two is kind of kind of more kind of build. It does kind of look like it columns. I think we can hit It looks like having a building that kind of li

um that's uh planned to be painted. So we have any options for color green. Likewise with the brick we have a lot of flexibility and options. This is a combination we like but it's your building. So I want to make sure you guys

Yeah, we as a board we have to be very careful about architectural integrity. There are certain things that you design because they are consistent visually in your ear and it's from experience that you you popped up there that number two option the windows what you call the table and it's consistent if we if we put columns it may be visually so th that's correct and we've it would be something we would have to explore and find a way to make it real unified. But I'm sure that we can do that exploration and then bring multiple options if that's the direction I want to ask for some staff input. Yeah, I mean I'm I'm glad to hear from staff.

Yeah, I think we are very happy with our meeting. We very much appreciate just a place to do the pound in terms of work. I I would I like number two. I think it has a nod in terms of again lifestyle.

It's a little different. I've never seen a town hall that look like that because the other option too I think look very similar to existing and that's not creative. That's just kind of the same thing. So I like option too. I think again similar to me it has that brick and but also not the residential and those edge of the residential. Yeah. So, um, and I think and I always I like green. We had them try green in a different option that never made it to the board and I like that option. Um, so I I

right. Let me ask you this. Uh, if I am a resident coming to do business for a a developer, whoever walking in, I'm just asking what would we pick one of these options, what does that say about it? Do you feel that if if I'm a resident and I have a complaint or a positive comment to our board, can they walk in there, is it does it represent what we need to commission? do well. about I mean maybe that's more of a navigational thing

but very difficult to access to there's Are you referring to any kind of building? Do you mean house? Not the courthouse.

To answer your question about what does the building say, this is only one piece of the um call it campus or whatever it's built. You've got, like we said, monument signs, that's the landscaping, and then the interior also gives you that welcoming. You know, we don't know all the interior yet, how it's going to look, but from what I saw at that that community meeting, it looked like it was going to be impressive. So, there are I think there are three things that that say what this building is. the building fits the um the landscaping or the the area and the interior. And I think we number two with all three of those elements. Yeah, I think I've always got in that you know ideal line is kind of true. I think once we get in the reality street once we you know see that that's main behind

the number was several hundred times last week. And we did have public comment public that showed up, one of which was a neighbor and they did say they would they did like an idea that we're more of a blended building where are we giving you enough in terms of the the sliders? options and suggestions. I guess what I'd like what I'd like to do here I don't know about time but schedule so back with say variations on two students less than similar to what

I mean precise maybe should have done well I think you did

um I mean we we did this in two weeks I think you were three options in two weeks So option three the 4.1

the second the only thing about two weeks is our meeting is so that like our agenda is

being built right now

we want to go the full month and and go in between everywhere. No. So we don't we haven't really decided yet and I showed 16 months for construction. Our contractor thinks they can do it 12, but you know, you have a month at least to move in. Um, that's I wouldn't necessarily show well, but you know, I think realistically there's a little bit built in. We're going to play that back.

Yeah. around.

But understand your point. I think if we said if we brought this to the November meeting, I guess part of it too has obviously been feedback that I'm working on. So, I want to make sure that get it out.

A question for Daniel. Um, if there's approval for the interior layout, I guess would that be of any benefit while the exterior scheme is finalized and kind of going through this additional review? Um I think ideally would have full approval for releasing our work yet. Um thinking particularly without options too. That's a major structural change from the direction we were added. We're adding openings when we didn't open previously. Um I think this change is likely to affect the full budget team. And what I don't want is to release our team ahead of schedule and then be looking at a redesign after because the decision was made a week or two after that would be my preference that come after looking over numerous of these options I'm pretty much satisfied without the colleges myself. I don't care. They're not going to fit in option to the brick in the upper board, but I'm I'm good with option is I'm also in favor of

I guess the general back I do love too that I still like

I think that's a different I think that's a potential

well I'd like to make a final pitch for more traditional do so from that shared insurance um civic this is by the way from a designer developer civic architecture states the community's values for two centuries American towns have built public buildings in a language everyone recognizes brick stone symmetry front entrance. You can't miss the architecture conveys the importance of the town itself and that it's governing, excuse me, that it government belongs to everyone and will outlast us all. A new town hall should speak that language county has faced this choice before and Pittsburgh factor courthouse burned in 2010. County didn't need it for day and business, but we restored it anyway because of what it meant to the community. That was a statement of values. Public buildings carry meaning and some things are worth paying for. Even now, events held in a historic courthouse carry gravitas because of the location and the architecture. While we all must live within constraints, the town hall budget should follow the purpose. Town Hall lasts 3500 years. Spread over that span, the cost of doing it right is small for a resident. And Rick outlasts Spain with I suggest the town price the alternative. They're more exciting. I I think uh we would um have a building

that will last longer and um carry a grander presentation uh if we used the out brick facad um with something reminiscent of the columner exterior. It sounds like so you're describing something that's not real with the Gable next door to that. Is that what you would want?

It's a really good question. Um, and I think that I would be okay with it because I think that neighborhood is already transitioning. They just worried like that.

Yep. And the main station very this is like durability like like Walgreens is dirt just get dirty. maint but um but it's going to be thorough.

If I could just jump in on the, you know, if you live there, which you want to, it's almost across where I live. I mean, it's not that that far. Um, and right now there are brick buildings in there. So, we're used to brick buildings in there. And obviously this will be quite a step above third grade buildings, but you know, go just uh one block up and you've got, you know, the car wash and you've got this. So I don't think it needs, you know, I I think it would be okay if we could do the brick. I think would still fit just fine. um if that's something that can be done. But I just want to mention it is right now they're across the way where Al's car was and the car wash is the couple over that way.

Yeah. stone in the front but it's still

September just that kind of call membership to the west transition What happened?

structure at least or on the interior any any issues with the interior just nonfir or is where the whole sold on their system. I'd like to see what it looks like. There's been a lot of um there change my accessibility I think we're seeing

that and we're also certain straight a lot of our roofers. So there's a fair amount of to the building that's coming to that certain strategy. Um, one thing to note about a more occurren sense of arrival that sense true that would likely require some is that entry was kind of in the middle of those two and so it would be impossible to get that into symmetrical about both sides like building look at it but the cost between the options place such that we would

because the stairwell is there. So it's not

it it added square footage. Um it was a

total reconfiguration of the floor plan. It was a much grander building, but I think it would have a much grander costing at least set up.

So, not an entry way there, but there's still a welcoming way there and then a sidewalk around. So if I'm coming on process still look like I'm going into that glass area like there might there might be benches there might be stone wall and and then have the sidewalks out so I could walk from the other side without having that saying the gathering area would be to the building or adjacent to the street.

Yes. Going back to front $3,000. I'm a door right off the top. That's not showing, is it? Now

you're talking right here on the the main office section right here.

Oh, you're right.

Yeah, you're right. Right there on the mechanical.

You're right. Yeah,

it's not showing on that.

Yeah, I I should be clear. There are small tweaks to make in that case. I don't believe that

mechanical room is strictly required to have an exterior door. Something I would have to confirm with our consulting team. Um, but my instinct were would be that it was strictly required to have an exterior. We may relocate it to the J side or any store that window. Even if the uh glass was crossed or standard just Well, I mean I think I think generally colors or palettes for but open to discuss more you know I mean primarily red color change but

you know but I mean aside but I think you know we got for them to get to a good point we got to settle on something particularly structural Are we are we discussing brick all the way?

That's one flavor.

I think that's one flavor, right? Okay.

But I think we're going to have a couple. Is there any way that we can see basic

designs in not just to make sure they get on the right track before November,

you know the board outside?

No, we have another view this way. Thank you. second come back around here. I like option two, but I am also willing to wait two weeks, but somebody has to I guess the question is we we do another special meeting. Would that be too option to make decision or would that be another sort of intermediary stop? because then we're still run into the same two week problem that we'd still be outside the agenda time for November and it would be burned out. So I mean I think I think if we plan on November and we have some phone calls or whatever in the meantime we could probably get to a good pro good product options in the November packet some kind of public review feedback and then make a decision November meeting you get alternates instruction documents we're going to be doing

alternate course and then also groups insurance that way you can say like 300 grand it's only 50 See brazel example, that

they were just going to throw an idea of thinking about we have those lock on the shoulder that will use trees every like a motion to proceed with option two generally with some pallet alternates. Thank you. Is there a second?

All right. Next we have the rose and baked master plan that really for Yes. 301. Fire system while this network is probably

We got really good feedback this comments people are in person do that start already staff are doing um and they're trying to all the time. Several advance network get done soon. appreciate what put a lot of work. Yeah, Jonathan, thank you very much again for uh documenting so much of your work on the Robert Street Greenway extension opportunities. Um, I hope everybody got a chance to read that because it's really a masterpiece. No exaggeration. This has been years of lots of moving

parts of new parts of the works. Um, Jonathan has gotten it so far advanced and um it's um it's it's going to be just a really tremendous um asset for this side of town. Um so strongly in support of the greenway and um the various parts in it. I think you might even call it the greenway greenway plusion through the south or extension to the south village. um demonstrate some important elements that I wasn't fully aware of. Really grateful that it's all now documented. Um it's open for the department to review. I really hope that we'll get some feedback on it. Uh I hope that it stimulates other thoughts and ideas. Uh the interaction with fairground associated with property just tremendous opportunity there for greater u connective interaction with u remarkable historic site the last black owner island nation um and the master plan uh and it's significant public input um is also considerable. Um I really appreciate there's a lot of work that's gone into it. The staff and consultant advisory boards and the community put into um Robert master plan to this point. Um at the same time our own discussions of this board uh and

even have recognized that um a continuation of a an effort to eradicate invasive species on this land is really important and that it will turn reveal important features of the property. Um, as we've already discovered, um, Chad Countyy's largest black walnut and we have yet to find all that we might discover. Oh, and also a couple of beavers by photograph. Um and so the the tree canopy and the topography of this site um the views that may reveal themselves and natural character I think that all of that can help refine this plan and by April or May uh after another season of eradication work um on this land I think we'll have a much better understanding of it and I think there's real value in allowing that knowledge to form the final master plan before we adopt it. So for that reason, I would move that we table this plan clearly until April until and immediately endorse um as the And for green actually need to be design phase before construction. Uh and there's probably some engineering list in there too. And um I am comfortable with delegating to staff the location of what I hope will be temporary parking

uh which is very much needed immediately and a temporary situation for restrooms. Um I would envision um temporary portable toilets. Um because again I I think that we don't want to um commit ourselves to very concrete forms of development as far we really understand. And to wrap that up, I think you know this this is it is going to be our central park the largest park in town in town. Uh it's going to be right next to a very large high density compact community built by LAR the project. It is already right next to amazing attraction called the plant. Um, which is really important symbol my mind of an old industrial facility into an eological attraction environment. People get to go and buy beverages that were made from things grown here in Chad County and North Carolina. And that's that's really special. It's almost there's not many opportunities like as well. The owners of the plant have been for years demonstrating environmental leadership really setting the tone for sustainability. literally different books. Um, so the vision of ecological

preserve art I think is is really where we want to focus our attention motion plan until April. Okay, there's a motion there. Second.

Okay, thank you.

I thought the motion was table until April, but move ahead or make it a separate motion.

I do really think it's very important to get moving parking lot, the greenway, and the bathroom. I think that singular most important part of this piece. So I don't like temporarily back in September. That's what I would re That's what I would I'll make the motion that we table the master plan for the park until April and give uh staff to go ahead me on greenway and staff empowered to site and construction. Is there something I have one. Isn't that pretty much the motion that we have here on the agenda where it says to approve for move forward design facilitate improvement by technology the motion has and pretty much I think we're all table

we're we're asking approve the mastery

plan my concerns with the master plan are that it contains some items I just really don't think we should build.

If we approve of a master plan, then everything in it is the master plan.

What What is it that you're objecting to? But that's we

Yeah. So, um pump track uh poop truck parking um not saying that I couldn't get past those concerns. Um but here again you what is in writing what is in print is not a line sorry that concerns me um and large neighborhood we really we really hope that we save the division of So I'm not thinking that this park spark will remain undeveloped forever. Uh I myself can see the need for something in future that has a very large draw and attraction in the park perhaps the theater but the ecosystem itself I think is a tremendous attraction. I hope that we'll have a a vast network of trails in there. Um but these very permanent things that there's no

You know, having very hard about here, But it it doesn't mean actually that any of this certain tree out there that's discovered anybody here or in town to go against the the will of the land so ends the run investigation. Well, you particularly like all you in recommen. the what they do and then certainly it will change the detailed designs of whatever and the theme will change over time

and pause until April. What is the purpose? I mean I know the purpose but explain it.

So truly deeper understanding of this land um Hopefully there will be sufficient volunteer groups that we can work on getting eradicating. You know, it it's just incredible to me that that the very very large platform was there

and memory living there. um or if they did they are direct. Um so I can imagine perhaps a weekend working in areas that have been identified for sure that there that we really bad like to hear from uh what what are the pros of this And what are the cons of staying this generally speaking on the plan? I think we we brought you all agreed to it hired or you all hired the company to us. We had probably some of the best citizen engagement had been project I think over 300 people had and then our came up with this plan based off that feedback. I think overwhelmingly though feedback was naturally do a tailored approach to this lar where it is um and how people might use that especially that's very good point 72 acres of downtown

figure that for for also now trying to figure out how we take advantage of funds for the greenway back. It would just be nice to know where and so we have the forge building parking sent back then what that same bathroom calls now But I think that's the understanding what we expect to storage area for trash or picnic area um next to a gravel park where people can park and go for 72 and creek and the old milite um and so all the things that you just mentioned tie back to parking greenway and about and so my understanding the motion would be going ahead with that um in the next six months until April is completed their next phase. Do we anticipate a bunch of developers coming in to spend money on developing this six months uh cost this grant cost increase in construction? I for the way I look at it going ahead of the most important things the parking the bathroom it seems like this six months really would not be eliminating any future things that said

that's being handled as far as I don't see any harm waiting for six months or What's the event?

I hear that there's no harm. What is the event?

Perhaps the additional time would also give us time to go deeper into this master plan because the idea that so the idea that we would build food truck parking in a park next to a private facility, businesses set up to serve food. Why is it in this master plan? That feedback was already delivered. Um so that's just me. The advantage would be like I said if we go ahead with this in there you find that it all needs to be shifted around. distance feel like there is no feel like we can get a better master plan design and everything but I think we might have a better product in six months as opposed to

yeah initially the goal we got to the point of doing to come in like we're going to build this in two years start but we were just trying to we were trying to site how some of these things work together it's turning into legacy extremely important that we have

forward. From a budget perspective, we do not have any money budgeted at all for any bathrooms, parking, any improvements at this time. And if we did any other changes to the master plan, there would be an additional contract charge.

So is it my understanding that a food truck parking area is what this hinges on?

Yeah.

What else is there? I question why we have a pump track uh in a in a park that's that's really suburban.

Say again.

This is really suburban. This is natural listening. This is wild. So why are we having very contract? staff. Yeah, this is a 23 plan. So you think time for $700,000. So that might not be but all these are

based on larger change that to me the bigger thing about current motion is the temporary facilities and we have people lined up to build per and and I guess the other point of it well you're referencing like sketch from the town manager as Yeah. reality of the greenway is that you have a much larger network. He showed some of that schedule as the potential connection from like road up to creek like that. But we're also one incessally connect. We're talking now about respawn to eventually end up all of you will

So, what I'm hearing from a commissioner is that there are certain items that he would veto immediately if they It was the line item ret.

Yeah. Uh with we could line item and then this plan would be fine. April to me seems like an arbitrary number because uh there are individuals that can find things in in this area that haven't been found there yet. That's how I look at it. I don't think we I don't think it's necessarily the right way to we as a board have the power to veto something that's arbitrarily but not arbitrarily but likely contrary to what our produc system and we should be able well do it at a date that like like the mayor was saying that about the pump tracks or sections or of developments in anywhere way down the line it could be quick I understand but moving forward just because there are this is a major connection slowing it down because no lack of pump or no I I I think I I'm trying to present individual examples for what I believe is is master plan that is out of touch with a lot of input that that has been delivered that I'm continuing to hear um because uh while

there's so many developed features in this master plan uh we keep getting what I consider that service that oh of course it's going to be an affluent part and yet here's very expensive capital intensive um art development features uh and furnishings and constructions and

I'm sorry isn't this a concept

we're just approved it and we're telling staff now go ahead and build well to to explore it because eventually there'll be additional approval forms, right? Design funding. Is there a way to find a happy medium? I I don't think delaying six months is going to do anything except push it down, right? And what I see is uh develop developers waiting for us to make a decision. This is a hinge point for for our parks. And the trail and they can move along with the bathroom but not that for permanent Why we tell April not understanding that again this is this is so we stopped working in this park when the he brought the tick I'm notable asking myself my family volunteers to enter the park because of the tick this is really

intensive work we pitched in So uh you know that that work needs to happen in the colder months and we will certainly be done by end of March or for the year. Whatever we will discover over the course of the next year will be done in that time frame by by April. But whatever we're gonna discover, I think it's going to be like that. We're not going to get through the rest of the

Sure. But and the motion was approve before. So I think that will be There is no time. Yeah. What what hearing part

of time and then as grant become available, money becomes available beyond available those come back to the board at time and then staff would say we suggest that phase one consists of X Y and Z and then that would move forward design funding and all those things that are look at this but that pavilion outside of the plans. I know that's a priority for the plan, but I know I don't believe I've heard you say it times now. Heard other people say by this master plan, we're not conveying ourselves. I think that's disingenuous. My to my understanding master plan that is contrary it will be document will be and I would staff would do everything that's why I'm not able to support it at this moment I do hope that we could um influence the content over the next six months in a way that is not rushed and um in a way that you can work the motion been made and so I'll call question um Mr. Master, can you give us guidance on how that when the question's called, does that be

voted?

Yes, we need to vote on the motion.

What do you have? Do we have to vote on the call any question?

Or does a member

on the motion? You just vote on the

All right. Can you restate the motion? I move that we table this master plan until April and power location and permanent facilities both of which will be paid for. Is there a second to that? Um, I want to go back the date on town hall for it if the motion mentioned the building program. I think there's any questions.

Is there a second? Second. Water was the favor say I.