Board of Commissioners Regular

Good evening. I'll call this meeting to order for the Pittsburgh Board of Commissioners on September 14th, 2026. We'll start with a moment of silence. Please join me. Thank you. Mayor Pro Farrell, will you lead us in the pledge of allegiance?

Certainly. Would everyone rise for the pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Rock and roll. We have the regular agenda and the consent agenda in front of us. Are there any changes or additions to either?

Uh yes. Um the consent agenda I'd like to pull for discussion on the public works building.

Okay. Uh number

that is number six.

Number six. We'll make it action item number six. [clears throat] Any other changes or additions?

Yes, Mr. Mayor. Two. Uh, number five.

Okay, we'll make that number

and number eight. number nine and number 10. Okay. [clears throat] Um number five, number eight, number nine, and number 10

real quick. Yeah. 8 9 10 5 6 8 9 10.

Okay. [clears throat] Anything else? Nothing left.

Is it just for consent? [clears throat]

Any changes to consent or regular?

Um what about table for that? Okay. I'll take a motion to approve the regular meeting agenda.

So move.

Thank you. Mayor prom.

Second.

Mr. Huner. All those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. Uh take a motion to approve the revised consent agenda.

So moved.

Thank you. [clears throat]

Uh second, Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor say I. Hi. Motion passes. Thank you. Um, up first we have a presentation on the promise. So, uh, Commissioner Foley has been in this effort. So, if you can start with your your role and the team you're working with and things like that for the project.

My role as project. Okay. [snorts] Such a weird thing to be on this side. Hi. I have a story to start. A story. When I was on the uh Chattam County Affordable Advisory Committee, we had this beautiful woman, she's 85 years old, come in. And she thought she might be gaining information about what affordable housing is about and how she can get it.

And what she got was a [clears throat] group of volunteers dedicated to affordable housing. and and I took her under my wing and she just didn't know what to do. Uh she's 85 years old. She had no family. She was at an apartment complex here in Pittsburgh that was at the time affordable that was purchased by another vendor and all of a sudden it was unaffordable for her. She was at her wits end what to do and that inspired what I'm about to present to you. It's called The Promise. And The Promise is an an attainable housing concept right in the downtown area, Pittsboro. Where's my clicker? The red one. They are. [clears throat] [snorts] The promise is this. That the nonprofit presents this on both of the buildings. That these homes shall remain attainable. That those who live here shall do so with dignity and pride. And that this place shall uh strengthen our community for generations to come. That's that's the promise. So what is the promise? The concept is two buildings, five and the the the drawing is a little bit uh misleading. five residential floors and two commercial floors, a central courtyard, and in the back you see a parking lot. And the whole idea of the promise is that we offer town houses that are quite affordable or quite attainable.

attainable meaning right now at these present dollars between $170 and $220,000 for studio apartment and 170 for a onebedroom 200 and for a two-bedroom $220,000. Well, that's really hard to attain. So, how do we do it? First off, we are focused on some land that the Chattam County will be vacating in in the future. It's not agreed upon about the timing of this, but [clears throat] we would take advantage of 5.1 square acres of property right downtown Pittsboro. It's right where the sheriff's department is right now and it's centrally located for these units. So, we're talking about 420 units, 210 in each building [clears throat] and then two commercial on the bottom. The commercial sites would pay for part of the upkeep of the building. Same with bargaining. And the whole idea is that if you purchase a townhouse from this nonprofit community and you you live in in that in that place, the equity that you acrew by the time you finished and want ready to sell the property, majority of that goes back into the community for the next individual come in in purchase a property at an attainment rate. Since these these condominiums are deed restricted, deed restriction means you have to you have to abide by whatever the rules of the restriction is on the deed. In this case, you only you're only allowed to sell to the you're only allowed to sell back to the nonprofit. And so it rolls and continues that way. What are the economic advantages of having some something like that? Well,

first off, I imagine in the in the commercial side of things, five the two stories below, I'd love to see Jenna Marketplace there. China Marketplace, I presented this idea to them. They love the idea and they're allowing me to speak on their eagerness to get get some of that lease space on the bottom floor. [clears throat] Uh, I can also envision a workspace like 79 West or the Perch moving there. I haven't solicited them yet, but that would be a great opportunity for them. Uh daycare perhaps. I know there's parking regulation rules we'd have to abide by, but if there's parking there, perhaps we can attain that as well. So, the whole idea is provide 420 attainable housing units right downtown Pittsburgh, two blocks from the circle. Two blocks from the circle. That's 700 people right downtown. 700 people. They're shoppers. They are taxpayers, property taxpayers because they'd be owning their land. They'd be owning their excuse me, their property, [clears throat] not the land. [snorts] What does that mean? Well, for for 700 plus or minus people that live there, the purchase the purchasing power comes to about 84 $8.4 $4 million per year of purchasing power. There's also tax benefit for county and for Pittsboro. $370,000 per year at today's tax rates for the town of Pittsboro. 500,000 tax rates for the county. I think it's a great idea. I do. I think this will work. I I also feel that if we

make sure that we have the agreements written correctly, what we can do with the county, if we come up with an agreement, if the nonprofit that will run the province falls apart, folds, they still have a $120 million building that the county or the town can use at their win. So, it's for me it's a win-win. So, again, it's a nonprofit. Everybody that buys and sells has to do through the nonprofit and that's what keeps the prices down. Love to have questions.

So, John, I I love this. I don't really have a question. I just have more of a comment. Um, I've heard a lot in the past week about people talking about what we are calling affordable in town and how people who are young people especially would rather own as opposed to rent and that is not an option even at 200 thou 299,000 300,000 it's it's not a it's not attainable for so many folks. I've talked to older people who are saying because property taxes have gone up, their mortgage payment has gone up $300, what are they not supposed to be able to what should they not buy? And this seems to bring old and young an opportunity to own to live. And from a small business perspective, I have a hard time getting employees where we're at because they cannot afford to live here. Um, this would give downtown and other parts of Pittsburgh, even in surrounding areas, an incredible wealth of talent to pull from who can afford to work here. Uh, I I love everything about this. I I think it's something that we need. Um, and I look forward to seeing if this is something that pencils out and that we can do because we need something that brings that allows people to stay here that

brings talent that we can draw from. And um let's this gen new generation not be kind of subjected to be a generation of only renters where they are one job loss away from homelessness or one for the seniors one medical issue away from homelessness. So this seems to really old and I I just think it's an shot of adrenaline that we need for downtown.

Thank you. I like that word shot of adrenaline that phrase. So, what I vision is what you vision, I think, Candace, and that is downsizers, people that really can't afford that those downsizing homes that we're seeing elsewhere in the community. And I also see kids on couches that are living with their parents and they can't afford much because they have college tuition to pay for for years and years and years. I also see our police department staff. I see town staff. I I know we have talent staff. that they're going in Garbor. I'd love to see them here to walk to work. And so that's the promise. That's what we're we're aiming to do. Again, this is a project that I can see though from this little lady that was desperate for something. This is an answer that's not really being done in in the nation right now. This is very unique. There's one housing trust fund that does it in Vermont. The [snorts] Champlain Housing Trust Fund. that's working there. And I think we can we can we can form we can form a board consisting of real estate attorneys, uh, land attorneys. Uh, we can form a board with I'd [clears throat] love to see a town commissioner on it. Not me because I'm foring forming this this idea. It wouldn't be me. It' be somebody else. I would like to see uh uh community leaders on the board.

[clears throat] I would like to see people that are interested in affordable housing on that board and I would like to see it replicated in other places. Uh I'd like to see the promise move to places like Siler City. I know that the town of Sanford is expressed interest in it. Right now the the lot is occupied. So we would have to wait for uh the the county to move out out of those lots. So that's that's one one barrier that we have right now. So that's the promise. It's it's a promise to individuals that want to own land that want to start a credit rating and and move forward in their lives in a in a in a strong way economically. So that's our head.

Foley, I think this sounds good. Um, is is it specific to that lot? Does it the profile? Okay,

that lot. The only reason I I b I chose that lot is that topographically it's 104t below the county courthouse. So a sevenstory building would not be as imposing. So, and also I chose that lot because that lot tapers down and so the the price for parking underground if we have underground parking or above ground parking be less excavation so it be less expensive. Those those are the reasons why I target that specific property. There's another appealing property right next to it. I'd be happy to use but I think it might be a little bit more expensive there. And again [clears throat] my my the whole idea is to keep the cost down. My vision, [clears throat] excuse me, is for a $170,000 studio that has the same rent as a two-bedroom apartment rent, including the HOA fees. So,

that's the vision, and I think we can do it the right finance.

Any other questions on Commissioner Foley's project?

Thank you. Thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

All right. Up next, we have citizens matters and we'll start with the manager's update. Nope. I'm sorry. Fold. Um up next, we have a few ceremonial items. So, [clears throat] uh earlier, uh the end of last week was the 25th anniversary of September 11th. We are fortunate to have a really amazing memorial here in our town. Um and so we have a uh proclamation for that day of remembrance. Whereas on September 11th, 2001, four civilian aircraft were hijacked and crashed into the World Trade Center in New York City, the Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia, in a field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania, resulting in the loss of innocent lives. And whereas we honor the courage and sacrifice of the firefighters, law enforcement officers, emergency personnel, military members, and citizens who responded, including those who gave their lives and those who continue to suffer illnesses and injuries resulting from their service. And whereas Americans came together in unity, compassion, patriotism, and service, demonstrating the resilience of our nation in the face of tragedy. And whereas the 25th anniversary of September 11th holds special significance for the town of Pittsburgh, a community with deep ties to first responders and a long-standing tradition of service and home to a memorial that includes a piece of the World Trade Center. And whereas as a new generation grows up with no personal history of personal memory of September 11th, we

must preserve the history of that day and ensure the lives lost and acts of heroism are never forgotten. And whereas on this 25th anniversary, the town of Pittsburgh [clears throat] joins communities across the nation in solemn remembrance and reaffirms the promise to never forget. And now therefore, I, Kyle Ship, mayor of the town of Pittsburgh, and on behalf of the Pittsburgh Board of Commissioners, do hereby proclaim September 11th, two, 2026 as a day of remembrance in the town of Pittsburgh, and encourage all citizens to pause in remembrance of those lost on September 11, 2001. Honor the bravery and sacrifice of first responders, military personnel, and all who served. and carry forward the spirit of unity and service that emerged from that tragic day. And I proclaimed that on September 11th and there's a really uh beautiful service downtown um that uh that we're able to put together that a lot of people put together. So thank you. Up next, we also have a proclamation of leave the leaves season. Whereas fallen leaves enrich soil, support pollinators and wildlife, conserve moisture, and reduce the need for fertilizer in mulch. And whereas the town of Pittsburgh encourages residents to leave leaves in place where appropriate or to use them as mulch, compost, or natural ground cover. And whereas reducing leaves placed at the curb can limit yard waste collection demands, support sustainable landscaping, and protect local waterways. And whereas the town will launch a Leave the Leaves web page, share information through press and social media channels, and distribute educational materials at town hall, parks, the library, and other community locations. And whereas residents may take the leave the leaves pledge through the online public works service request

form and pick up a yards item from town hall. And whereas leaf collection season begins October 12, 2026, making early promotion important for resident awareness and participation. And now therefore, I, Cotch Ship, mayor of the town of Pittsburgh, and on behalf of the Pittsburgh Board of Commissioners, do hereby proclaim the fall of 26 as lead the leave season in the town of Pittsboro and encourage residents to take the pledge, use leaves as a natural resource where appropriate, and help promote a healthier, more sustainable community. Thank you. All right, now we are at citizens matters and we will start with the manager's update.

Thank you, mayor. Uh didn't have a whole lot of time today to put together that update. Um but I will let you know that we did meet last week a couple of times on Lewis Freeman Park with the working group that we've established to come up with the educational information. And I'm already seeing a flurry of emails from them. So that means they're they're getting to work real quick. Um, and we're hoping to actually get the uh actual, you know, physical work started back at that park hopefully next week or two. Uh, but I'll provide you all an update uh later on this month. Thank you. [clears throat]

All right. Up next is my update to uh ribbon cutings. On September 9th, we had a ribbon cutting at Griffin Farms Town Homes down at 8715501 in Sanford Road. Uh, that project's been a long time coming and it's good to have those units available. On August 17th, I had a lunch with uh Senator Fushi and her staff and just updated them. Uh they were all here from DC and uh North Carolina and touring the area and was able to update them on uh the needs of Pittsboro and uh just what's happening in the area. So that was a great opportunity. On August 25th, uh Mayor Pro Tim and I met with the uh county chair and co-chair in our normal uh quarterly meeting in coordination with them. August 28th, there was a connected

communities briefing that gave the results of a a really regional effort of computer and technology training um that was done. So that was a really great program. And September 3rd, we had the uh Chattam data briefing here with the Chamber of Commerce um and lots of uh lots of good information was put out there. So we had a um Central Pines RPO, the transportation meeting on August 13th. uh reviewed the money that DOT has and doesn't have for projects around town and we will meet again on October 8th. Up next, Commissioner Huner.

Okay. Um let's see. The past month I did go to the um parks and advisory board meeting where um they discussed a a very a variety of different programs uh one of which will be tonight. Um, I did attend the affordable housing advisory committee, but I know uh, Commissioner Foley will speak more on that. Held two commissioner coffee chats um, with some good attendance and some really good um, feedback from uh, residents. Attended the September 11th memorial service. Um, and I met with the town um, on some environmental and sustainability initiatives, one of which was the legal leaves. And um I just really want to thank the town staff for embracing and moving with the lead the leaves um program. I'm excited to see it take shape and um I'm glad that we're going to emphasize how to do it responsibly. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Even leaving a portion of your leaves can really support pollinators, insects, soil health, and our uh local eos uh ecosystem. And I can't wait to take my pledge and plant my sign. So, and um and I guess that's it for me. Thank you, Commissioner Bonds.

Sure.

Yes, thank you. Um, so, uh, first thing is the Central Pines Regional Council Board meeting happened on August 26th,

which was during my annual sustainable fleet technologies conference in Durham, so I was not able to attend. Uh but in reviewing the minutes from that, I think the most noteworthy thing from this board meeting was the sharing of resources on policies for local government policies for data centers. Um so I'm eager to share that with anybody who's curious. Um and the climate action advisory committee, Chattam County Climate Action Advisory Committee, uh has been well, first they were preparing comments for Chattam County's planning staff's deliberation of policy proposals for the board of commissioners on data centers. And now they are reviewing those draft ordinance amendments for data centers intending to give input uh to the county planning board. Um and um I'll leave it at that.

Thank you.

Mr. Fur other than the uh that I attended with the mayor the Chattam County and Pittsburgh meeting. I also attended the 911 memorial and the C board. We have our yearly audit that will be up. We'll have information Wednesday. So, more to come from that.

Commissioner Foley,

uh busy busy this last month. Um first of all, I want to shout out to the town in in my community. We are repairing curbs and I think that's the thumbs up said.

Yeah. And I know the same was happening last week in town forest. So I appreciate that effort. Talked to some of the staff. They were and some of our contractors of course but very kind, very courteous. So that's a feedback. I was like, okay, thank you

for that. met with economic development corporation Mike Mith and invited me invited him to make a presentation to the board last month and so he's here this month to honor that invitation. I met with the tiger rescue shout the Carolina Tiger Rescue Group and they want to give a shout out to the uh to the uh to the board uh during um uh a public meeting public opportunity. So they'll be talking. I had um a affordable housing advisory committee meeting uh and commissioner Huniger there was there as well and we talked about um we talked about Fington Preserve which is a community just north of Pittsboro on the on the west side of and I promised uh that community that I would speak that potential committee that I would speak on behalf of the affordable housing that they are planning to offer for that that development. I towards South Creek, the the uh the building that is on the what is that? The east side of 15501, really close to uh right right over the Chattam County border. South Creek is is a community that has 80 acres donated to a community trust fund. not a trust fund but a community land conservancy and in the front near the near the buildings itself I think that by the way I think that's very generous 80 80 acres it's just woods it's beautiful forest and then the community itself there are two buildings right on on the road that I would love to see mimicked with the promise it's five stories and two commercial underneath so I got to tour with the builder and

he's quite interested in the promise himself. So, we might have a builder for that. I talked to Chris O'Brien from Is it WPBO?

It's Radio PBO.

Regular PBO. So, it's it's not caffeinated. It's

okay.

And uh I learned all about this wonderful man and his and his passion for radio. And all of a sudden, I've learned that he has a passion for Pittsburgh, too. And uh a true journalist. So I I I welcome everybody to introducing to Chris.

I spoke with uh fire chief Daryl Griffin spending uh a half a day touring the fire stations in in in our district. Felt his concerns and we are still advocating for a north station sooner than later. We're looking for two and a half to five acres just north of Mosaic. So, the search continues with that. Uh, the mayor and I were at the Harris nuclear power plant. I think that was in last month, right?

Very interesting, cool place. Um, we we visited the mockup, but the mockup isn't the real thing, but it's just like it. And so, we got to actually the mayor got to trip a switch to make alarms go off, which was terrifyingly fun at the same time.

An emergency.

Yes. A training emergency. And then uh two other things I did uh just for the community. I did an Alzheimer's testimonial. My [clears throat] dad passed away 10 years ago. And so I'm I I I did a testimonial for uh a group that's uh recording uh caregivers advice to those who have people in their lives that do have Alzheimer's. So uh that was quite

wonderful. And the last thing I did, I uh I'm a kidney donor, a living kidney donor, and um so I went to Duke University and National Kidney Foundation uh asked me to speak to potential donors, living obviously living donors, and uh what it takes to be one, what's the process, how how long did it take to recover, and what your life is afterwards. And uh so that was a profound uh weekend too this Saturday. So I think that's all I have. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner B.

Yes, I attended the state of Chadam um event by Chattam Chamber of Commerce which was I believe Commissioner Bonnets was there and uh Foley and there was lots of great information. Our county is obviously growing and I'm I'm proud to be here um because there's just lots of great things happening and Rebecca and her team um really made sure to uh to prove that um during the presentation. Um so kudos to you. That was a that was a great event. and I attended the PDAB Pittsburgh Downtown Advisory Board um board meeting and they have lots of great things going on there too. Um we have there's such a talented board and I'm excited to see what comes next.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Up next we have public comment. So when you come up please state your name and address at the start of your comments. There's a time limit of three minutes which will be displayed on the screen. In the interest of time and fairness, it's the board's policy not to respond directly to comments during this period. Staff will follow up as appropriate. Any speakers with handouts will give them to the town clerk and they will be distributed to the board at the conclusion of this meeting. We have

three people signed up this evening [clears throat] is Kathy Russell followed by Susan King Cope.

Kathy Okay. Uh, up next is Susan King Cop followed by Zach Smith.

Hi, I'm Susan King Cop and my address is 1940 Hanks Chapel Road in Pittsburgh. That's actually Carolina Tiger Rescue's address. I live in Apex. I'm one of the people that drive in every day to um support the community. But I'm really excited to be here. Um, for those of you who may not know, Carolina Tiger Rescue has been around for about 50 years. We are a wildcat sanctuary. We also have other animals besides wild cats. And really what our main goal is is to provide a forever home to animals that have been neglected, who are part of the um entertainment industry, who are part of the breeding program, and who have been exploited for profit. We give them a forever home. And then we also educate people so that people no longer make these same mistakes. If you haven't been out to the sanctuary, I offer you a personal invitation. I'm happy to take you around and introduce you to some of our residents. Um, but our role in the community doesn't just stop right at the sanctuary gates. It's also a place where people come for education. Over 20,000 people come into our sanctuary every year. People from across North Carolina, across Chadam County, across the United States, and even about 50 people um from around the world. So, we really have a very broad reach. And all of those people after they leave, we hope that they come in to Pittsburgh, that they frequent the businesses, that they stay at the hotels, that they go to the restaurants, that they visit downtown Chadam and Pittsboro as well as go to the plant and all the local things because it really is a great small town and we believe that there is a lot of opportunity for growth. Um, Pittsburgh has become even more attractive to

families that are moving into the area. the economic development aspect of things is growing and we think that Carolina Tiger Rescue has a lot to add to that. We're right in the middle of our Protect Magnificent program where we are building a new education and visitors center and um part of that process will also be including a lot of additional accessibility for all people to come over and visit as well as to upgrade the infrastructure and to enhance our educational programming. Right now we have about 50 schools who come out and get educational field trips every year and we'd like for that to be much greater. [clears throat] We also see an opportunity to really work with the county more closely and with other organizations. We have a vast knowledge on tourism, hospitality, on education and economic development. We really do want to be good neighbors and good community partners. And perhaps most importantly, our mission truly aligns with Chattam County and with Pittsboro. And that is because the people who work at Carolina Tiger Rescue, the people who come and visit Carolina Tiger Rescue, they care about the community. They care about its future, about its the environment, about the quality of life of the people who live and work here and the experiences that we can create everlasting stories so that people's mindsets are changed as well. Was that my timer?

Yes. Thank Thank you so much. Thank you.

Thank you.

Very good.

Up next is Zach Smith.

Hello everyone. My name is Zach Smith and I live at 190 Tiner Loop in Brier Chapel. I'd like the town of Pittsburgh to work with Chattam County to figure out how to build an indoor recreational facility so we can have sports like basketball, pickle ball, and volleyball in Pittsburgh. Ideally, this facility would include a configur conf configurable gym space

with six to 12 courts, high ceilings, collapsible bleachers, an indoor walking trail, a climbing wall, a weight and exercise room, flex space for classes, events, community meetings, and elections. Here are three reasons why this is a good idea. One, the county is growing and our indoor recreational facilities are already over capacity. There's more demand for wreck leagues and open gyms than the county can offer. A large recreational facility will provide more access to sports and create a healthier county. Two, if you're a parent of one of the hundreds of kids in the county that play club volleyball, which is what I'm most familiar with because that's what my daughter plays, um you're most likely driving 30 to 50 minutes each way two to four times a week to bring your kid to practice and that's just one sport. Having a facility in Pittsboro where vetted nonprofit sports clubs can have their home will reduce the burden on families and make indoor sports more affordable to our children. Three, a facility like this would allow us to host tournaments on weekends and have a significant economic impact. This a reduces the travel burden for local families because they can play here and b brings more tourism dollars to our county. We can make this happen by following the playbook of Sanford, which opened the Lee County Athletic Park last year. Here's what they did. Step one, get community buyin. That's what we're doing right here for this facility. Step two, commission a feasibility study so we know what size the facility should be and how much it will cost. Step three, hold a bond referendum where Chattam County residents can vote to approve this project. Step four, hopefully build this facility. My request to the board is to get your feedback and your connections to make

this feasibility study happen. We need the right people behind this project so we can make Pittsburgh and Chattam County a better place for families. Thank you.

Thank you. [clears throat]

Up next, we have a few presentations. The first is the new town hall project update.

[clears throat]

May your board me. I'm project engineer. Tonight we have a update on the new town hall project. HH architecture is here as well and will be presenting on the site and building design. So this image is the 1938 with the star the [clears throat] uh new town hall location at the corner of Thompson J. Ferrell. Yeah.

So, we're currently in design development with HH Architecture and their design team and we have Edifice Construction advising on constructibility and providing detailed cost estimates as the design progresses. The design and project team um have developed a building program which has been trimmed and made more efficient after a preliminary cost estimate by Edifice. And in June, we had a community engagement meeting um with town staff and HH architecture where we saw feedback from the community on design aesthetics and priorities.

HH will have a slide on this later. And then we've finished [clears throat] the schematic design with HH and received a detailed cost estimate from Edifice um which I'll be showing in a later slide. So just want to highlight some key features HH will be presenting on the design. But I just wanted to point out um the project right now meets current staffing needs. It also allows for growth. Um and so that means 15 or 16 empty offices on day one, maybe maybe less than that on day one. And then a designated area for future building and parking. a boardroom with 100 person seating capacity and overflow accommodations, a boardroom integrated AV system designed by a AV consultant. Uh the building will have automation features for lighting and HBAC and also um we're trying to showcase some low impact storm water features on the site um to reduce concentrated storm water flow um minimize piping and curb gutter. So this is our current estimate of construction costs. Um that first number is the detailed cost estimate by Edifice and um so they they quantified over 300 construction line items to develop that price. They used subcontractor input um and so that's the cost if we were to build it today. Um, we also evaluated over 30 value engineering options to kind of further reduce the the cost.

And then the other items are just um other items that are needed basically to open up the building. So furniture, AV, IT, utility and permitting fees, etc. So, this is the same schedule I presented in March, and we're we're on track. So, I didn't I didn't make any changes, but right now, um you can see what it takes to get to bid the project. And ultimately, our goal is to complete construction by the end of 2028. And right now, as you all are aware, the current town hall lease ends at that time. And so that's really driving this schedule. Um, and not not a whole lot of room in order to meet that goal to slip. So, um, again, we have HH architecture architecture here. I'll introduce Daniel Jinx. Thank you, Ben. Um, as Ben introduced, my name is Daniel Jinx. I'm an architect at HH Architecture. Um, joining me tonight is Siler Ransmeer, who's a partner at HH Architecture. Um, thank you so much for the opportunity to share a little bit about the design process so far. Um, and also open it up to some feedback. Um to give a quick recap of everything we've we've done to date, we conducted that community engagement event. [clears throat] Um we've built out the site plan. Um settled on a floor plan. Um kept sustainability in mind and I can highlight a few of those aspects tonight and then also began the exterior design and we've actually got some renderings to share for you this evening.

So to recap the community engagement event, um we were able to host kind of an open forum um June 4th and what HH did to support that event was bring these uh boards as you can see here um each with different options for different areas of the design um focusing on community values, interior pallet and exterior pallet. And then members of the public were invited to uh show their support with a sticker. Um so you can see um or maybe you can't see but um community values. We've got a lot of support for sustainable, a lot of support for community focused and a lot of support for warm and inviting. And this is what we invited folks to think about. What does this building want to feel like when you walk into it? On the interior side of things, most of the support was on the contemporary collaborative scheme, which is a little more modern looking interior u design. Um, but also got a lot of support for the wood touches in both regional heritage and natural uh framework on the exterior. Um, lots of support for wood elements, lots of support for a metal roof, um, lots of support for natural light and a front porch. um all of which you'll see represented in our final renderings. And then on the exterior, big support for the more sustainable features of the site, um native planting and more natural storm water approach. Maybe lagging a little bit here. Um, in looking at the site plan, we did settle on kind of a similar shape to the plan you may remember from the feasibility study a year ago. Um, but did trim it up quite a bit, which we can talk about in the floor plan section. Um, the

building's still sited in sort of the northeast portion of the site. We're imagining a bit of a courtyard space wrapping around uh the south side of the building. uh parking towards the south as well and have also um allowed for some future parking um at some point in the future. Um we've reserved some space for a future edition um while we have reserved future office space already within this uh program. Um we're leaving space open for a future edition if uh at some point in the future the town needs that. Um we're also thinking about sustainability and kind of future proofing the site um by providing the infrastructure for EV charging. Right now we're planning on uh the infrastructure to for future installation of EV chargers. Um that would be six chargers dual headed chargers. So eight or 12 spots in total. Also thinking about the storm water, we opted for a wetland style storm water control measure, which is a more natural um storm water control measure, less reliant on underground concrete or plastic uh tanks. Zooming in a bit, you can get a sense of where the building entry is at that yellow arrow. We're also including a vehicle drop off lane, space for flag poles, um, which will also house a pollinator garden. Um, and then outdoor seating at the plan south there, as well as bike racks. Um, one thing you'll notice is two mechanical yards on either end of the building. Um the larger one serves the twotory portion which is the rightmost volume of what you're looking at and then a smaller one serving the uh boardroom wing which is the less leftmost volume you're looking at. Um this was we were opted for exterior units here to try to save some cost.

Typically those have to find space inside the interior conditioned envelope of the building and by leaving those outside we're able to save that cost. So, in looking at the floor plan, um we're really pleased uh with working with the town to find the efficiencies we did in this plan. Um from the uh feasibility study plan, we were able to remove close to 6,000 square feet, which at the cost per square foot we're expecting for this building. Um that equates to over $3 million of savings. Um, a way to think about this plan is that left volume kind of being the legislative wing and the right volume being the administrative wing and the left wing housing the boardroom, the commissioner's conference room, the mayor's office and other legislative functions and then the admin wing housing most of the county or um sorry town offices for the building. Uh, linking the two [clears throat] volumes is a lobby space which is fairly generous. Um, we also imagine this to be highly glazed to let in a lot of natural light. Um, this space could also serve as spill out of a boardroom meeting. So, if a commissioner meeting runs out of seats for um a well attended meeting, you'd be able to spill out into this lobby, set up chairs, and have TVs at either side of those boardroom doors uh projecting the meeting from uh inside. You can see the uh reception desk there and then an open stair just beyond that. So that stair is not behind closed walls or behind a door. It'll be open. Um really highlighting that warm and inviting feeling as you enter the building. We have public restrooms around the corner there. And back to back with that would be the private restrooms for the folks who work inside the building. And we made efforts to make those uh restrooms stack for efficiency.

[snorts]

At the interior core of the two-story

wing, you can see some of the common spaces like conference rooms, coffee rooms, storage rooms, and the break room. And then as we move upstairs, much more office spaces, um more common spaces towards the center with the rest rooms and open conference spaces. and then another uh medium conference room on the plan south the twotory wing. So we heard uh tremendous support for sustainability at the community engagement event and so we wanted to take a second to highlight the sustainable u features of this design. Um we uh have sort of shot for lead like design standards and if you're familiar with lead it's leadership of in energy and environmental design um which is a regulating body who can grant certifications for buildings um for a price. So we are uh trying to approach those lead design standards without expending the uh expense of actually getting certified. So, thinking about energy and resource consciousness, we're using all LED lighting and smart lighting controls, uh, lowflow or automatic plumbing fixtures. We're going to be solar ready, and by that I mean we have all the infrastructure for solar panels to be installed at a later date. Um, including the inverter, the panel, the right electrical panels and a conduit to the roof. Um the HBAC systems will be commissioned which means that a third party will come in and do uh professional testing and balancing to make sure the system is running at its peak. Um also including smart HBAC controls um that are integrated with occupancy sensors, lighting controls, things like that uh to make sure it's not running any more than it needs to. From the site perspective, uh we're expecting all native plantings that wetland for storm water control. Um one thing that often gets overlooked is the

um benefits of using a previously developed site. Uh we're not tearing up a green field to um place this building. It's a building that's already been developed and we're actually adding less than an acre of impervious area to the site. Um, we're also considering pvious paving and that may end up being a bid alternate. Um, which means that it would be priced separately at bid date and you can choose whether or not you want to include that in the final product. From finishes, um, we're going to focus on local sourcing and local labor, low VOC content, um, and high recyclable recyclable content. Uh, with that we can move to the outside of the building. Um, we actually have two options for you all to consider this evening and maybe even a third um, if we see fit to to take a look at a third option. Um, we're imagining a relatively simple form in which the uh boardroom volume, the legislative volume has a single slope roofing towards what I would consider the front of the building where the front entrance is, which is opposite this elevation. Um, [clears throat] allowing us to get really high ceilings in the chamber space, which is where you're seeing those high windows along this side of the facade. You can just see the sort of uh glassy lobby volume in between the two uh larger volumes and then the uh twotory admin room beyond that. So this scheme focuses on kind of a darker um sort of charcoal like fiber cement volume at the twotory portion and then a nice vertical woodlook um siding at the boardroom volume. Um here you can also see that single slope roof towards the front. What you may not be able to tell is that that roof is extending uh more than 10 feet out from the face of the building kind

of creating that front c uh porch feel in front of the uh boardroom volume. What is the circle on the west end of that overhang? So, we've been calling it Oculus, which would just be a void within that overhang roof. And we think there's an opportunity to do something really interesting there, whether it be something inlaid into the sidewalk or some public art that is kind of naturally highlighted by that opening. Um, we're leaving that open at the moment, but thought it really added something to this elevation.

[clears throat]

Thank you. So, as a second option, we kind of flipped the approach of the last one. We went lighter on the twotory volume and darker on the wood look. That's what that would look like from the front. The colors may be a little tricky on the projector here, but happy to share printed copies, too. And then beyond the the two options we prepared for this slide deck, um we also heard that there might be some concern about the lack of brick of this facade. Um so we spent the day uh putting together a third option for folks to consider. And I've got that printed here. Be happy to hand it out. Two sheets of paper. Thank you.

[clears throat and cough]

Is that the same thing, Daniel? Is that the same image? Is it this?

Yes, that's right.

An Oculus also. It does, doesn't it?

It does. Okay.

So, [clears throat] this scheme, the boardroom side is the same as the lighter wood scheme we showed in the body of the presentation, but that twotory volume would become brick. Um, I do want to give a a small caveat that we we spent one day on this. So, um there is some further exploration we would need to do to further detail the brick work, but we gave some indication of of some of the detailing we would expect um with a brick facade. Um using opportunities to change the running bond from the first floor to the second floor to add some variety. Um some offsets and sweeps within the brick to add some detailing. And there are plenty of examples in Pittsburgh that we could start to pick up details on and carry forward into this uh building.

What's is there expected cost difference between what was shown before in this?

Um I expect the cost to be fairly comparable. It's possible brick is slightly more expensive. Um I'm not sure it's going to be something you'll really feel in the final estimate between the two options. It's a facade anyway, right?

Even here.

Any questions or comments?

I have a couple. Um, can you tell me how many people came to the June 4th community engagement and weighed in on design?

It was a smaller group. Um, I don't

remember the exact number. There were eight dots on the sustainable. I think you said that was the the turnout that was enormous.

Yeah, we um each person got multiple stickers, too. We asked people to spread them around, not put double on one item. But

um just um I like the pollinator gardens. I love that we're going to use native plants. I would just like to say that along Thompson Street, it would be nice to have trees because we are positioning Pittsburgh to be walkable and [clears throat] all the time and it is hot. So having shade trees along I think it would also enhance um for bike racks. Um I just had a meeting and a lot of people were talking about um got a lot of feedback that bike racks should have chargers. People are using uh ebikes. Um and then on the interior, uh we did I know request an extra um Can you go back to the interior? We had requested an extra um exit at the um behind the podium or at that entrance and that was in some previous renderings and it seems to have been lost.

Yeah, I can um speak to that

like an exit to the north. Mhm.

Yeah. It was like an exit home into Thompson Street.

Yeah,

it's a good idea maybe.

And I don't know how that would work looking at the facade because we've got but it was something that was I I believe important to all of us at one point to have that exit.

Maybe a fire escape also to the west right next to that uh HVAC pad. Yeah, if we have some ideas, but

yeah,

you know,

I don't want to

No, no, no. I just wanted to to just point that out. I I I don't remember was I think it was basically right behind the podium.

Yeah. So, at a certain point in the design, we flipped the layout of the boardroom, which would have put that exit um at the sort of northwest corner of this rendering here, which means we would have to extend new sidewalk out to meet it and add that site cost. What we did as a compromise is that door uh just right of mechanical electrical um was provided both as a secondary exit um for folks u citizens in the boardroom but also um for folks behind the desk. So I got a couple of pages of feedback from uh citizens and residents and business owners. Um, and I'd very much like to uh take that up uh in a a more intensive focused workshop setting. Um, so that's my preference. And

I second that. [clears throat] might you know, Pittsburgh is our home. We have a we have a historic courthouse right downtown and it was built by Chadam County uh in 1787. It's been here a long time and [clears throat] its weight and I mean u historic weight its substance it's its power is substantial and when I when I look at the drawings here the images of that I don't I don't see the same power and establishment that we can portray as a town and uh I know we're so far along in this but that's something we can talk about in our in our uh in a in a in a session, an open hearing session. Uh that my concerns I I I do know there there might be answers to that. Uh we can we can all bang on it, but I I can't thank you enough for your efforts,

Daniel, and your group, H&H. But we as a board get to decide something that's going to be historic and substantial. So, and I know my town manager is looking at me right now saying, "Where are we going to pay for it?" [laughter] But I want to bang it out before we just give the thumbs up here. And I hope hopefully that's that's something the board can also agree with.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Perhaps

I'll just mention also um the floor plan is fine. No problem. Looks like all the space is utilized very well. I just have a little issue with the exterior. To me, old school, it looks like two separate buildings. I don't know if we need to move brick to the government side. Um, I would like to see a little overhang on the the Thompson Street side of the the town hall administrative. Just from my uh past work at UNCC Hospital, a flat front right that is a monster for water leaks around windows and stuff like that. So maybe some type of roof overhang over that toward that Thompson Street. We do imagine that um metal portion that's turning down to be proud of the windows and and proud of the fiber cement below. [snorts]

I just the floor plan is great. I believe we are good with that. If we could just maybe have a few more different exterior models to look at. Keep it in the same budget. You know what I mean? [clears throat and laughter]

That's the trick Christmas. Yeah.

[clears throat]

I don't want us to keep putting this off. If we need to

I know we're on top

have a work session. We need to do it rapidly and get the word back to our architects and town managers.

Let's defer to the the staff. What if we have a like a a meeting two weeks from now? Would that be an appropriate time and where would we meet?

That's a great question. Uh I think we could easily set up a workshop in a couple of weeks. Uh Carrie and I would need to figure out location.

Sorry.

Is that is the request for that to be in the evening or during the day? Is there a day of the week? possible

target. Well, what's I mean, I want to keep it tight, but if we said like two weeks from now on the 28th.

Yeah,

sounds good. You have to find availability for how much how much space do you need?

That depends on how many people from the public show up.

I think we say we can target that pending availability.

Okay. and we'll we'll get cracking on that and we'll get back to you if the date needs to change or the time. Um, but we'll aim for 6 PM somewhere. We don't want to pick a spot that doesn't have enough for public participation and then we have to move the meeting or delay it. [clears throat]

How does this affect our schedule?

We need to move pretty quickly. So, there's a little bit of buffer built in, but we lost some of that in the beginning. Um, so we're I don't want to say exactly, but we I think we have a little bit of room.

Is that on the lease side or is that on the construction side?

It's on both.

Our lease is up. I think one is up in December of 28 and the other one is up in January of 29. And that seems like a long time.

No, no, no, not this. So, uh,

because we'll run into issues

downstairs and upstairs leases. Is that what you mean? Or Okay. Okay. Downstairs is mainly meeting space, right? And you have some you also have some grounds facilities downstairs offices.

Those are separate leases. So, the the downstairs, the old YMCA is a sublet. We are a sublet of the YMCA. I believe that one ends January of 29 or maybe that's

No, I think that's the

that's the earlier one. Yeah. So losing that space won't won't really impact us too much.

Okay.

Any other feedback is as much feedback as we can get from now allows to [clears throat] plan for critically look at how we have turnout for public feedback. I'd love to have uh a a staff member or somebody qualified to uh welcome an individual that's coming in when they're handing them the dots say how did you hear about us so we get a constructive idea of what's working and what's not working when it comes to uh public out outreach

we have to figure out ways that I'd love to have seen 38 talks instead of eight talks

and [clears throat] that would facilitate us making our decisions, we wouldn't be tripping over time as as as uh as we find ourselves right now doing. So that's that's some feedback to the town, not to the designer, the architect.

Thank you, Commissioner Foley. I completely missed it. I wasn't aware that it was happening and so um you know perhaps I I missed it uh in writing but um often seeing those things on social media helps remind me and I don't know

how I missed it there. So um yeah but I think that socializing this this current plan and getting feedback I think would have been would have put us in a better position. uh with regard to public perception of it.

Yeah. Design.

Yeah.

Um Yeah.

And this this I have to put it on the board. Nobody else. [clears throat] We should we should have been more aggressive and proactive. So it's on our shoulders, the five of us. [clears throat]

Is there any other sort of exterior design feedback? So if we're if we're looking for the architect to update renderings in two weeks and hopefully have cost information as well, we should provide any, you know, feedback we have at this point on what's been provided so we can have the most uh helpful work session. I guess

yeah, I do have something, Mr. Mayor. [clears throat] This is not my idea. the person whose idea it just can claim it. But I love the idea of us moving back into the county courthouse. Well, actually, we haven't been there ever, but I love to have the our town meetings at the circle. It's a beautiful spot. And then we have extra room to grow into or provide lease opportunities. Uh we build a building that's larger than we need right now. we can lease it out and provide income for the town that way. So that's that's a thought that I know some commissioners would agree with. So that's another option so that as we grow we can then pick somewhere else to have a substantially larger town hall. M

but for right now as a as a like as a leap forward it might be to our advantage to to build as quickly as

possible. Lease out some of the space and have instead of one of these have two of these larger buildings next to each other so we're not occurring any more design costs. You can lease out one building for revenue and the other one's for administration and then we can grow. In the meantime, we are in the the town hall that we identify ourselves with. So, it's an option.

You mean Thank you, Commissioner. You mean

in the county town? Yeah.

County courthouse. Thank you, Commissioner.

It's never been [clears throat]

No, it's not a town building

identified as

Yeah, it certainly is. I'm sure the county disagrees, but Commissioner Ferrell, I think I have in not in my tenure have we met there, but I believe that in your tenure, uh,

were you there?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

The board did meet there

doing additional elements with Chattam Park.

Oh, yeah. Numerous meetings there

and Chattam Park was uh approved and I think the meeting was held there. That's right.

So, that's an option. Uh, and I think maybe pounding it out in a work session might be something that the board can can look at.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, I do think it's a great idea and and I have suggested it to a few people and um, thank you for bringing it up. I think it's a grand space. Obviously, it's historic. There's a a uh, what's the word? Uh, somnity to that space. um that's not even the right word, but it's certainly a very respectable space and uh for larger meetings, I think it would let make a lot of sense. Uh I know that there's been challenges in thinking through the IT. We now have a full-time IT person. Um and we didn't before when we were turned down. Um but I I think um

it'd be really great if we could get back to meeting there and it could be a a regular space whereas in this building we're shuttling from room to room based on whatever other programming is happening in in the agricultural conference center.

Nothing negative about that. The the generosity of the counties.

That's true. That's true.

Appreciate it.

It's a fine meeting space. It just doesn't have the same uh feeling

value.

Yeah.

Well, I think I mean we pay for this, so it's

that's right.

It's generous, I guess, but we also pay for it. Um

uh we and I appreciate the staff that that runs this for us, for sure.

Um I I think that the this seems like a different discussion than the construction of a town hall for one thing if we're talking about a a standard space to meet in and things like that. But I think there's a lot of issues with access and um parking and things like that in that space. But I think that a new town hall will give us a lot of opportunities to have our our meeting space for all of our um all of our needs.

Yes. Well, the reason it came to my mind is uh if we're trying to value engineer, government in Pittsboro owns a very large meeting space. It happens to be the county government. It happens to be the county courthouse, but we could delete the chambers, the meeting chambers on this design. Um, and so these are the kinds of complex topics that I really don't want us to rush through right now. I'd really like us to have

I time to reflect uh when we're not feeling impressed with a very long agenda. So that's why I think we really ought to have a workshop. So, um, sounds like do we need a a motion for the workshop?

Um,

or

the mayor can just call the meeting once we get the dates up.

Okay. Okay.

And but but to your I would like to address the idea that was thrown out. So

then you can think about staff's response to that. Um, it isn't just having an IT director. We'd have to bring our own IT equipment to every meeting. So be lugging that back and forth. You also have a planning board to think about. PDAB to think about um PERB to think about other boards in the future. This meeting or this is the meeting room that's that they've designed would service all of the town needs and then we're not having to constantly get the county to book space for us. Also, it's my understanding that when the county builds their new facility out on Renaissance Drive, they're going to be building their own boardroom out there and we'll only be using the courthouse for more ceremonial options. So then we will be just basically a burden on the county to continue to use that building multiple times a month. Um so I would say having our own

burden for me. What does it burden me?

And we're constantly calling them needing access to their space. We'd also have to hire a sheriff's deputy uh to be at the meetings whenever.

Yeah. Well, this would still be built. This the administrative offices would still be built.

Yeah. I'm talking about the council chambers. the [clears throat] council chambers at the courthouse you're talking about?

Right here.

Oh, right here. [clears throat]

Anything that you don't build today is going to cost you double to build it when you get around to it later on.

And we we've already compressed this this

we are compressed and

as much as you can.

We are we are strapped with time and I I'm not comfortable with that. I am not comfortable with it. And uh so being strapped with time means that we might be making decisions that we don't necessarily need to make. This is one option and I think we can discuss it. I appreciate your feedback but we can discuss it in an open session.

I make a comment on design um of the exterior. Um, I've listened to feedback from the community and that's one of the reasons I asked how many people attended

and I did go on June 4th and I attended that. Um, there weren't a lot of people so I didn't know what it was and I think this kind of we've gotten more feedback on the design than I think we had participants in the community um event. And that's why I just do think it's very important for people to come to these events if we have to find a hold multiple ones or find another way to hold them because we are getting comments back and some of those comments are that the building itself is more modern than the rest of the architecture and that it doesn't really fit you on Thompson Street. So that people are wanting something a little bit more in line with our historic look and I would think drive downtown. we had that and I don't know if that is cost constraints or just trying to go a little more modern but that is one of the things that I heard um I heard colors were a little dark and I understand that some of the reasons for the darker colors were um just upkeep um but they people did some like the wood and the multiple elements so I think bringing in the brick will satisfy some of that but I did get uh like barnaminium was a was comments and I think I don't really know what one is but that kind of does sum it up and

they want to be more that fits historic downtown and the rest of uh Thompson Street. So that those are feedbacks that I've gotten from community that but again it would have been nice to have had that community feedback before we started. So we've got to figure out how to do better at getting that feedback in the beginning of anything that we do. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you, D.

And [clears throat] I'd say, you know, I think we have a variety of building styles in town. I sort of appreciated the two different styles that that represent different areas. Um, connected by the glass. I think it's kind of

interesting. I think some brick is good. Um, and uh, but yeah, I think it's a critical facility for us. And then I guess too maybe staff at this workshop can can provide a a summary of the process so far. So I mean it has been an extensive process that we've been working through

with different opportunities for for comment throughout the time. um first time with renderings of course as as the process will go but um but I want to make sure that we keep you know I agree with not making a rush decision to make a rush decision but also keeping the process moving so that we can complete the project and get on to you know and and learn some lessons as we build this project for the fire you know fire station police station other fire station all the other facilities that we'll we'll be building in the near future.

Good point. Yeah, I will just mention one thing though. I I I go along with the manager regarding our uh town hall with our meeting rooms and all. It's just like we're having to look for a building or having a place to to have our parks and wreck or having a special meeting when we have our own uh meeting space and all. We won't have these problems. I I'm definitely want us to stay with this same floor plan and whatever minimal exteriors and go from there and let's move forward.

I I disagree with you, Commissioner Perl. [clears throat] Uh we have meeting space. The Rafi building is we just purchased the Rafi building and I know there's meeting space there. So I I don't want to put a burden on anybody. However, uh I also want our decision as commissioners to be substantial and to look look to the future and u that's all I got to say. All right. Any last comments?

All right. We will look at availability yours as well timeline. Um and we will

follow workshop. Thank you. Uh up next we have uh four more presentations. So we have uh the Chattam County Economic Development Corporation and Michael Smith present.

Mr. Mayor, members of the board, thank you for giving me a few minutes to talk to you tonight about economic development here in Pittsburgh and China County. Um see um certainly our organization we've actually u been around as of next year it'll be 30 years. Um so it's been uh it's been exciting exciting couple of decades to bring us to this uh interesting point that we find ourselves. Um certainly our particular office um continues to lead the effort to increase the tax base and bring new full-time jobs here to uh to Pittsburgh and Chinat County. Um we also certainly support existing industries. We actually just recently uh hired a new person to handle that full-time. So that was another positive move for us. Um we're also uh do everything we can to provide accurate and updated information uh on economic development issues um across our community. Um the the need for economic development um is especially interesting here right now in terms of the people that live here that keep having to go somewhere else to work. Um and certainly for uh quality of life reasons uh for ecological reasons. It'd be much better to have much more uh full-time jobs right here in Chattam County rather than having folks to leave. you can see almost 30,000 people every day leave to go to work somewhere other than right here uh in Pittsburgh. Um it's over 2,000 people uh that leave every day to

work somewhere else. Um and so the more we can do to bring these jobs here um I think that that helps all of us in a number of different ways. Um tax base is something that's especially important um as it relates to economic development and why what we're trying to do helps everybody in this room. Um as you can see with this pie chart um almost 90% uh of our tax base is residential. Uh the Goldilocks number is more of 6040. We're at basically we're at 9010. And so one of the most important things our office can do is again to try and help change this by bringing in um additional new companies to uh areas that are already slated for industrial growth. Um this image shows a little bit about what uh our neighbors are doing. And again you can see in the far left image uh we're 90% um much more than our neighbors in Orange Lee uh and more. Um certainly we're we're above the state average as well. So again, this is something we're trying to work on very very closely. Um this is one of the reasons is uh for every dollar of public services by land use type commercial and industrial is only 29. Uh traditional residential is is over a dollar. Certainly it's it's different here with what we have at Chattam Park. that's very different than your traditional uh residential use. But in in in general, that's that's the difference. And that's one of the many reasons why economic development is very important. It pays for itself. Um this is a um a onepage flyer um that we want to distribute to as many people as possible. Um that kind of again talks about, you know, what we have right now. Uh, one of the things in particular, we have over 700 square miles uh in Chattam County and our population growth continues to to almost double what the state average is over the next 10 years.

Um, again, trying to bring jobs here so people aren't just coming to live here. We don't really want to be just a bedroom community. We also want to have industry here as well. Um, again, we talk about the cost of the community services. Uh the other thing that I think that we've talked about a lot recently um is this um well actually we'll get to the maps here in a minute. Uh but the um in terms of site selection and how companies make their decisions to come to a place like Chattam County and and Pittsburgh. Uh labor is very important again for that. For us that's positive since we've got all these people leaving. Uh companies see they're actually people here that would rather be working here. uh infrastructure, power, certainly the water and sewer, uh some things that you all have done a [clears throat] very good job on here in the last couple of years. Um and having sites that are ready for that type of development. Um this is something that I thought you all would be interested in in taking a look at in terms of the industry sectors um that in particularly look uh in North Carolina in particular uh energy, automotive and biotech are those top three um that are definitely looking right here in Chattam County. Um and when you see those numbers in terms of the the median investment, um energy and biotech are both over a hundred million. uh automotive is is a little over 30 million and then the the median wages again are much higher than what our typical average wage is here. Incentives uh it's an something that that's kind of a part of it's it's cost of doing business. Um and one of the things on this image you see 94% of counties in North Carolina have incentive programs. 91% of municipalities have uh incentive programs. And the two most important phrases to keep in mind as it relates to our incentive programs are one um they are self-funding. Um this does not come from any existing revenue source. Um and

basically they are uh they're also they're the community I mean the company has to sign an agreement saying they're going to make uh create the jobs and the investment or else they don't get those incentives much like Benfast for example they have not gotten any incentives from Chattam County because they haven't done what they promised to do so far.

Can you describe an incentive for us?

Sure. uh in incentives in in essence are a percentage. Uh the new company comes in and and promises to hire x number of people at at or above our our average wage. They have to do that. They also have to pay at least 50% of all their their uh employees health benefits. Um and then they have to have to create those jobs in a certain period of time and then they pay their taxes. And then ultimately for several years in a row, it may be 10 years. We give them a percentage of their own taxes back. Okay?

So again, it's it's nothing that's existing now that we're doing things here in Pittsburgh or in the county. It's it's all it's uh it's self-funded and performance-based. Those are the two phrases that

show me what you're doing. Right. Right.

Show me and then we can refund some taxes.

[clears throat]

And it's just like with Venfast. Not that we want to talk about them, but that's an exa an example of why these these um are are set up that way. If we'd have handed Venfast a big check when they said they were coming and they didn't come, we'd have a whole lot different conversation. What's going on right now?

Are these North Carolina laws rules or is that

both? Yeah, the North Carolina programs are very similar. Um, so yeah, that's the one difference while we're talking about Benfast that that we're fortunate of is that the state of North Carolina invested in that site in terms of the infrastructure. Um, but what that means is if Benfast doesn't come, some other company can still go to that site and use that infrastructure that's there. So it's it's very different again than if [clears throat] we just handed them a check when they said they they were going to come.

We just on that part we we gave we will we work with Hampton ends on their incentive program [clears throat]

and it was tax base too plus employment also.

Exactly. And and that's a great thank you for bringing that up because again when we went had that discussion I mean 10 years ago we didn't have a hotel and we wanted to get something and and now that helped bring them here but again it gave them a percentage of what they paid. We didn't just pay them a check.

Right. Exactly.

Mr. Smith, I want to thank you for stating so very clearly that the uh failed attempt at auto manufacturing at the at the uh mega site um did not receive any funding from the county and from the state either, right? Because they didn't get from the state is they they basically got some infrastructure help,

right?

Um but that's the discussion now is getting that back.

That was also site based, wasn't it? Exactly. Just just after

the investments remain.

Correct.

Yeah.

Because it's it's a widely misunderstood.

Sure.

Throwing slanderous things around thinking that that we actually wrote checks when we didn't.

And and and a good example that I'll share with you all that I've over the years I've heard and that and that's the uh the uh the PGA big check myth. And you know we see a golf tournament in the tournament somebody gets a big giant check and gets handed. That's not what we do in economic development. They have to do they they have to have a a performance legal document and they have to perform.

Thank you.

Sure.

Um again, continuing to talk about incentives. Um [clears throat] future development. Um this is a map that's just fabulous. Um this is the uh county's land use map. You can see this map has a whole lot of green on it and it's also there. So that's the uh CAM site is on the uh the west. Uh the uh tip site is there on the east and then

that's the u apex gateway site. So in essence you've got this 700 square miles of beautiful green space and our organization is completely focused on basically these three sites. Um and so and and and we're focused on these three sites and yet at these three sites there there's a significant amount of opportunity for for us all. Um I know that the county commissioners have tasked development in specific areas in the county and you're kind of piggybacking those economic uh targets in those same areas. I see.

Exactly. Exactly. and and eventually go will have some opportunities as well. Uh but then the other the other big silver spot on this map is 3M and so 3M um they don't unless they tell us uh they're not planning on any expansion there. And so that's the other other major industrial looking area on the space. But you can see um it you know our our job is to focus on what's already available. Um, and the other thing, the good news, I think if if for for people that aren't as excited about all this development is our development is focused in those three areas and it it it doesn't do my office. I mean, we're we're not going through the middle of Shadam County trying to find new sites because we we've got as as much as we can possibly handle. And so, I think if you aren't that excited about development, that's actually a good thing because we're only focused in those three areas. Um and and so that's kind of what this slide talks about. 4,000 acres available for industrial development. That's a significant number. It is is a huge number, but again is focused in in basically two areas, but three areas for for the purposes of this discussion, but that's less than 3% of the county's total land. And so, you know, it's it's

a we have this this interesting dynamic of these numbers. We got over 4,000 acres available. But then when you go back and look at our county, 4,000 acres in lots of places, might be half the county, I don't know. But we've got this fabulous large county right in the middle of the best place for business in the country. And so it's an amazing opportunity that we have. Um [snorts] been talking again about um this the state's um attributes. I mean, it's amazing. We've been number one or two for the last six years in a row. We've also got a phenomenal workforce development uh program through uh Central Carolina Community College. And my last slide is our favorite slide because we think this does a good job of talking about all of the fascinating things that are right here in Chattam County and how close we are to so many different things in so many different directions. Um, and again, I appreciate your support for our office and what we do. And I'm happy to answer any additional questions you all may have.

Could you go back to slide number 12?

List of the industries. [clears throat]

Right there. So, um,

went too far. You had it a second ago. There we go. Um so my question is I'm looking at all these and I was wondering as Chadam and is pursuing industrial development in that 3% um is water consumption, energy use, environmental impact and infrastructure being incorporated into the recruitment of the industries and what industries should Pittsburgh and Chattam be recruiting? Not just what can we attract, but what should we be recruiting out of this

list? I don't think we're going to get aerospace.

Yeah, ultimately aerospace will move in this direction. Certainly there been very focus on Greensboro. Uh but I think again I mean the life science opportunities we have here is dramatic. I mean one of the images that we use that we didn't didn't use it today. I can send it to all of you. It shows the US1 corer and shows all of that life science that's in um Holly Springs. And then then with us at the tip site and then just south of all the life science in Sanford, it it's it's a it's a perfect um life science corridor and continues to be. And then on top of that, when you um add in the um Apex Gateway site that's right there on on the um uh Wake Cadam line, that's perfect for life science as well. um automotive um certainly depending on what happens with with our our uh uh mega sites that's possible um but food and beverage um financial services. I think that you know ultimately we'll have a lot more office opportunities here as well just because of the explosive growth of the triangle and and we're in such a a fantastic place to live. Um, but I think, you know, another thing that that that I think I need to be sure and say to this group is I we we had something come in today, two different projects over probably 300 million total. And because of the type of industry it is, we're not going to submit anything because we we fully understand where we are and what you all want and what you don't want. And so we're we're not going to throw darts at every single opportunity that comes through because, you know, we we want to make sure it's going to be something that's a good fit for Pittsburgh. it's a good fit for Chattam County. Um and and we also [clears throat] want a company to feel welcome. We we don't want to we don't want to have a fight over whether we want this type of operation or that type of operation.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Tire retreading or uh landfills or things like that.

Got it. We [clears throat] we want to steer clear of of the the dirty industries. Um I u I really appreciate the presentation. Um, I especially appreciate that slide on the higher costs of public service by land use type. Thank you for reminding the public and the board of that. Um, and I'd love to hear more details and metrics, not necessar I don't want to put you on the spot right now, Mr. Smith, but if if perhaps in a future presentation on details and metrics of what the EDC is doing to help launch, retain, and grow local businesses.

Sure. And I guess one of the main things in terms of small businesses, we believe that that, you know, as we're bringing in these other larger operations, that's that's a great support for our businesses right here in downtown Pittsburgh. For example, when uh when Wolf Speed was being built, there were 2,000 people out there building that building. And so there were there were multiple Pittsburgh companies that were, you know, feeding them, doing different things. I mean, and so it it it's a it's a great cycle. Um but it's and at the same time we've got lots of of great uh existing operations here uh in in the area in terms of of two different chambers. Um the the small business center at uh Chadam Community College um and Web Squared. So there are four different existing organizations that are doing a good job with small businesses that we work quite closely with.

Good. [clears throat] Well, I'm glad to hear it. Um we heard a presentation from the uh carnivore preservation trust and uh while that's not a huge employer it is a significant uh economic contributor and um that kind of thing I think is really important and uh wonder um for example I happen to be aware of some speculation in the investment ment in DC fast charging infrastructure. Um,

and I've been told that Pittsburgh is a prized location because it's a desert right now. Uh, there is no DC fast charging infrastructure. Is that the kind of thing that your organization would facilitate and and help find sites?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And and that's the thing is is having those two uh mega sites and then with land adjacent to them and then also the the buildings that are going up the Apex Gateway Park. Uh we've got multiple different opportunities for for an industry like that.

Okay. You got you got a bite there? You have a company in mind? Um it's just a general industry.

Probably wouldn't be appropriate for me to say the name of the company. Um

I understand I'm not asking but

yeah but um also I think uh given uh personnel changes I think that company might no longer be interested in this this town.

Um but uh the assertion was made to me confidently enough that I'm I am confident that our community is attractive to other developers. So, [clears throat] and that's, you know, that's one and a half$2 million a pop for uh an EV charging station, DC fast charging station [clears throat] that that ultimately is coming back. I mean, it's just hit a blip.

Yep.

Mr. Smith, I I appreciate the recent focus too on the like 3% of industrial land and kind of showing how EDC is focused on that while, you know, working with other partners on other types of economic development and stuff. So, I appreciate that that alignment around the industrial land for the EDC.

Thank you. Well, again, to me, it's it's amazing to think about have 4 over 4,000 acres and yet it's only 3% of this

community and and it's spread out. it's not all in one particular area. So, I think we're very very fortunate. So we as commissioners are uh shoulder that burden of of taxation and um the 93% I think you quoted of of of the taxes originated here is from residential and so uh your your efforts are well so I I do appreciate you speaking with us.

Thanks. Well, glad glad to be a part of it and we certainly appreciate your support.

Thank you.

We have a presentation from NC idea uh about scale chatam. So Tom and Rachel, please.

All right. Thank you for your time this evening. Um as introduced, I'm Tom Snider. This is my colleague Rachel Newberry. Um we represent an organization called NCIDA and I'll have some slides up here in a moment but we are an economic development focused organization um very complimentary to the presentation that you just heard a moment ago um our focus is on another kind of leg of um of the economic development stool which is really focused around entrepreneurship and and job creation. So, as this comes up here, um, when we first I want to give just a quick piece of history and then then we'll get to the point of the conversation, but um, NCAA is a foundation's been operating for many, many years. When Rachel and I started working initially, uh, in this Pittsburgh area, uh, we were part of an organization called Riot, uh, that I founded in 2014, uh, focused on technology- based economic development. uh some of the stats and things that uh that we've done are are here on the screen. I'm not going to go uh through this in detail, but really uh the focus is on on the creation of new jobs versus

the transfer of jobs from one place to another place, which is often what some of the larger site development types of projects are. Um about 90% or 95% of net new jobs in the entire country are created by companies that are five years or younger. Um, at [clears throat] the beginning of this year, our organization was uh acquired, if you will, and and and even though we're nonprofit, by a larger nonprofit in the area called NC Idea, NCID has been around for 21 years now. It's a private foundation that is primarily known for grant giving uh non-dilutive grants to entrepreneurial uh companies to to startup companies across all of North Carolina and to entrepreneurial support organizations. And you can see a little bit of kind of the impact that that NIDA has had over the years. Um, a key point is both Riot and Ni idea are organizations that tend to work with companies, you know, in their first year or two of growth. Oftentimes when that company might have just a single employee uh or or a very small group of people that then over time create the jobs of the future. um technology- based economic development is where where we operate and and if you're not familiar with with TBED as uh as it's sometimes summarized, it's really about the creation of high wage industries uh and generally uh you know technology focus. So technology doesn't necessarily just mean software uh or or kind of office jobs. It's it's advanced manufacturing. It's smart agriculture. Uh anything where emerging technologies they they truly do steer the economy whether we we like you know AI or not it is changing the world that we live in just to give one example. Uh but we see emerging technologies in energy and transportation and logistics other places. And the the simple fact is that great places to live are places where we have really really high quality of life.

And that tends to be our restaurants and our retail, our arts, our entertainment, the industries that that make places great places to live. Often those industries do not pay wages at a level that create a lot of disposable income to even support them themselves. Right? So the high wage industries create those high salaries that create the you know the disposable income that kind of supports the the rest of the economy in some way and and really support and grow the tax base. And so TBED we think of as kind of one leg of three really really important pieces of economic health in a region. You've got the the business recruitment which is the presentation that you just just heard a moment ago and it's important to have the sites that large facilities can come to that we can you know hopefully attract those jobs from other places to to this this region. The the technology based entrepreneurship is really about creating new jobs in place and creating headquarters that as companies grow and scale those those companies tend not to move. uh if you look at the the transference of jobs, it's almost always a satellite of a large company. It's not the headquarters that m necessarily moves to the new site. It's it's you know it's some satellite operation. If you can get headquarters to form in your region, they tend to be think things that that really stick. Uh in fact uh I was at a a presentation re recently where someone presented some data and showed that it tends to be at least three generations before a new company that starts in a place uh reaches a point that they could be recruited away from from from your region. And so as companies grow and scale you're looking at at least a 50-year horizon of kind of their impact on on growing the tax base [clears throat] and so on and so forth. Um and then of course there's also the you know the downtown um and main street kind of businesses and revitalization kinds of projects that are also important in the economic health of a region.

Um our organization uh as we've brought Riot and NC idea together brings together programming and support for this kind of job creation entrepreneurial job creation through accelerator programs through incubators through ability to kind of help build support uh and and connect resources to entrepreneurs and business owners across the region. Uh we do everything from supporting uh kind of main street businesses that need to bring technology into their business to to remain competitive and to and to scale and to grow. We're running a program called foundations uh here in the area right now. We've got 23 uh business owners um some that are just starting, some that are uh maybe up to about three years into their businesses that are going through that that program. Uh and then we also have on the NCI side the ability to to help with some of that startup capital. U you know how significant to someone just getting started might a $10,000 check or $50,000 check be to help them to launch and to grow and to scale their their business. And so you know across the work that we do we recognize that you need both mentorship uh connections and and and capital.

Um

question for you Tom.

Yes sir. trying to visualize but what you're you're talking about I I love the idea but but I I need I need help with so with exactly how it would be implemented.

Sure.

You could help me [clears throat] with that. So we have we have uh community uh work places like 79 West for instance that have community uh spots where we can meet and talk and generate ideas. uh is that what you're talking about? And then at that point, you're you're pulling people in to a community-based organization like that and then giving them uh capital uh funding grant through grants. So, uh we are a piece of a larger ecosystem. Uh

we don't operate space. Uh we operate in partnership with space. So, for instance, we've been working from from Perch and running some of the programs from there. We've done some things with 79. Uh it also requires storytellers. We have a storyteller in the audience that kind of helps to tell the stories of these companies because you know often when they go from employee number one to number two like the governor doesn't show up with a big pair of scissors for that event but but you know how do you you do that? So part of our job is to really bring together lots of other stakeholders that are already doing great work across the region. Uh and then our specific role is to b provide coaching and mentoring and to run specific programs that kind of teach the founders how to build a really solid foundation under the businesses that they run

tech oriented

uh tech focus. Yes. Okay. Yes. So I've got a case study on the screen here. We've worked for a number of years in Wilson, North Carolina with a regional approach. Wilson is uh a town of about 50,000 people but across eastern North Carolina uh there there was there there are entrepreneurs everywhere but not everyone had the kind of [clears throat] that you have say in research triangle and so as we've worked in there in in the Wilson area over a number of years we've been able to see see job growth growth in the tax base um and if you've been out to that area recently you see you know that area is is booming with with follow on private investment uh through our work also we help places to to leverage federal funding and so so Wilson instance over the last few years, we've helped them bring about an additional $1.6 million uh from various federal programs uh in to support that community, help build out that infrastructure.

If I'm out talking to a a person that has an idea, I send them to you as an incubator. Is that what you do? You you help you advise your council and they provide leverage perhaps grants opportunities that works. So yes, we would take referrals for companies that we can support. We we just help them directly. We never charge any of the startups any money for our services.

We've uh find other ways to to fund that uh in part through uh public sector funding, through grants from the federal government, from corporate sponsorships, a range of different uh approaches. as we're looking at this region, uh, we believe that there's a huge opportunity kind of across the sand hills and for Pittsburgh to be the anchor or the hub, if you will, of that that regional approach. Uh, that's part of what, uh, Jonathan Franklin has dubbed Scale Cadam. Uh, we think perhaps it could be even broader than that. Maybe it's, you know, includes more Lee counties. We'll we'll see as we continue to to speak and talk to to folks. Um, I do want to address your grant point. Uh, we deploy a lot of grants. Uh there's not a guarantee that every company would get a grant. There are competitive application processes and so on. But any companies that are awarded grants uh they are non-dilutive. We don't take an ownership stake in any businesses. We're not investors. Um and uh and that grant funding does not need need to be paid back. Uh sometimes we will award those in tranches based on some milestones and so on.

How do you quantify success then? What is it that say dog on it we did a great job? What is it that uh the town benefits when you succeed? How does that work?

Our northstar metric is job creation uh which is common for many economic development focused organizations. Um probably the next thing that I focus on is um how long does that company survive? When you look at venturebacked accelerator programs, you may have heard of things like Y Combinator, Tech Stars, organizations like that where the the educator is also taking a vested business interest. Uh that sounds like a very aligned mission. You know, I I own a part of the company. I want them to be successful. Most of those programs, if you look at three-year viability, h how is that company doing three years after they went through a program? About 10% of those companies are still alive. uh because the the investor is really trying to take and turn a company into an investment vehicle and if they don't see that they're going to get their 10x

return very quickly, they they want to get out quickly before they put any more investment in. Um as economic developers, we think about long-term sustainability of business. And so through our programs over the years, uh we have about an 85% rate of companies that are still viable three years after a program. If you look at the NC idea work that has been going on for about 21 years now, we've supported more than 650 companies. Not all of them are 21 years old. Some obviously been more recent, but more than 70% of those are still viable companies. So, we really are focused not necessarily on immediate returns for investors, but on sustainable long-term job creation. don't want to put you on the spot, but I'm wondering if you have like a an example of one of your allstars that you've you've helped.

Yeah.

We have at our own investment, we've we've run some initial programs in this area because we want to test and see, you know, what the market looks like. Do you want to talk about some companies?

Yeah, sure. Um, so, [clears throat] uh, at this point, we've worked with, um, just north of 40 companies in, uh, programs that we run here in Pittsboro. Um here you see a number of companies that came through our accelerator program which is a 12week program that we ran last fall. Um a couple of the stories we'd like to highlight. Um mobile surveillance solutions is here in the region. Um uh the founder Brian um came to us uh you know with a business that was operating um but during the program we helped win with um a technical milestone. So they have um kind of security stations that they base at construction sites that do um surveillance and monitoring and prevention of theft and things like that. Um and they had um uh you know some units in the field but they had some uptime issues. So they had about 60% um uptime on their technical solution. We helped them to increase that to near 100% uptime. So that was a

huge technical milestone. And then um revenue-wise, he grew by doubledigit percentage points in revenue during our program. Um and at the end of the program, he had a pipeline of about 40 units that um customers were demanding. Um today, if you look uh a year later, he's got 80 units deployed in the field with customers. Um so great growth from him. Um I'll highlight one more. Improtect DC um is from the broader region. Um so not directly Pittsboro um but they have a solution for data center cooling to help data centers to operate with greater energy efficiency. It's a really high techch um forwardinking solution. Um and they just uh closed uh 1 million in seed capital for the company. So these kinds of milestones are really um uh indicative of of what we support through our programs. It's revenue growth, team growth, um you know technical sophistication to prepare these products for scaling uh and um raising capital and things like that.

Yeah. So this is as Rachel said the data on this screen this is from a program that's just about a year old and usually um you know kind of this economic growth you know it takes some time. You don't immediately have a job, you know, a month or or or you know, six weeks after you finish a program. It it takes some time to to build these organizations, but they do create momentum and they do create kind of an inflection point within a few years of of you know, significant impact um in an area. Um aside from the entrepreneurs that may be in the area, you're also experiencing a lot of of inbound growth. You have a lot of residential uh housing that's being built. These kind of programs are are good if someone's coming into the area say to take a job related to some of the effort uh that we just heard from the previous presenter you know a trailing spouse other folks like these kind of programs can create more economic opportunity as kind of a multiplier uh

on what you saw and as we heard in the previous presentation as well these high wage jobs absolutely have a halo effect of additional you know service industry jobs entertainment jobs etc etc um in a healthy economy. Uh I think that might be uh what yeah this might be the last slide here is um we we really see this opportunity for for Pittsburgh through the scale chatum initiative to to be kind of the recognized hub you know towards the sand hills. It's it's close enough into the triangle that you know this isn't like you know a rural versus urban you know the idea is to connect resources. we can connect and pull resources kind of out of the triangle into this region while also supporting um you know to the south to the west um uh to communities that that really can be profoundly impacted by the creation of new high wage industries. Other questions? Yeah. One more. Uh uh do you have any minority programs designed for those those uh groups that uh aren't easily elevated? [snorts]

Yeah, thank you for the question. U first I'll share that through our history uh more than 60% of all the companies that we work with have at least one female minority or veteran founder. and and we really focus uh the healthiest economies are the ones that have lots of diversity of industry. Uh the healthiest places you know and best quality places live have a diversity of options and things to participate in and and likewise we think having diversity of of thinking different backgrounds different founders and so on is extremely healthy. So we do focus on that uh and bringing people together rather than siloing like hey we're just going to do this thing just for women and so on. Um but but I think that part of the reason that it's so important to partner with a number of organizations including established organizations in

the area uh we think like web squared for instance is that you know we don't necessarily have the relationships and the trust of every community that we wish to support but there are people that have that that trust established. So if we can build relationships with those kind of connecting organizations, if you will, then they can help invite people in and then we can work together. And so

robust chamber of commerce and and uh you have our support. Well, I speak for myself, but you have uh my support in in those endeavors as well. So thank you.

Thank you very much.

Yeah. And one quick note, the the current cohort they're running, uh, a pretty good amount of, um, the folks that they accepted into the program heard about the program from the chamber, from an email the chamber sent out.

Any last questions?

Thank you. Question for the staff. Uh, this is going to be funded. Is that correct? Are we

Yes. So, we're working with the county and sour city to a joint partnership to fund this hopefully over five years. The amount of funding that I would like Pittsburgh to put in is currently already in the budget, but we do want to check and see what Solid City and the county can put together and then we'll move from there. And you've got a motion in an item later in the night um to authorize me to

this morning

engage with anou with the county. Yes, sir.

Okay.

Okay. Thank you. The current cohort I think is 23 businesses, a third from Pittsboro, a third from Chattam County, and a third from the larger. So that's pretty impressive.

All right, a few more presentations and a few more things, but we will take a fivem minute recess. Let's try and stick to that and uh keep things moving after that. Five minute recess.

Well, no. All right, welcome back from our

social group

fiveish minute recess. Up next we have a presentation from Chattam Park on their annual update.

[clears throat]

I was just given the directive at five minutes or less. [clears throat] [laughter] I'll try. Perfect. [snorts] I don't know if I can do it. Um, my name is Chuck Smith with Chattam Park. Good to be with you guys again. It's been a little while. Uh, let's see which will advance this. There we go. Um quick explanation. Last year when we were going through the small area plan process, one of the things that we were asked to do is to come in annually and just give an update primarily of the south village at that time was the thinking. But since nothing has happened in the south village yet, this is going to be more of a general Chattam Park update and we'll focus on the south village at the end of it. Um, we've already heard from Mr. Smith and y'all have at least talked to us previously interested more in non-residential. So, start off with this. We've got today we've got almost 500,000 square feet of non-residential space on the ground. Um, primarily in Mosaic and Northwoods, primarily made up

with the grocery, retail and [snorts] restaurant space. Uh the YMCA is included in that. Um and the but maybe more importantly, if you're aware of most of what's going on with that, we've got one point over 1.8 million square feet that we are actively working on in various stages of completion. Some things we can talk about, other things we can't really yet, but uh we'll get more into that in a second. That's a total of 2.3 million square feet. Um I know earlier and we've talked about this number a lot in recent years but Chattam County is over as we've said is over 90% residential tax base obviously interested in growing that non-residential when I looked at this a few months ago I haven't looked at this recently but we were more like within Chattam Park we were more like 7030 70% residential 30% non-residential from a tax base standpoint not necessarily acreage or anything like that but tax base but I haven't le that's been a few months.

I'll I'll just jump in there. Right now, I think town of Pittsburgh is the the town is 68.3 residential and 30.3 commercial. So, I think largely driven by a lot of these efforts as well, but um better numbers,

right? That's an important number. Um

can you can you pull your microphone closer?

Thanks.

Sometimes I wonder if people really want to hear me though. First we do we've what I wanted to focus more on this was the jobs um this is the non-residential existing non-residential that we've got here and u as I said generally in Northwoods and Mosaic UNCC health's a big part of that the Hampton in obviously is a big part of that examples being one place the grocery but uh today we've got about approximately 1100 jobs. I think we've

talked with some of y'all in the past. So, I've got a list of that. I don't know if y'all have that list, but we've got a breakdown of that that we keep up with. Um, the future is first of all, we're focusing in down in the bottom left corner. We've got we've done a number of different looks at plans, but it's would be our first mixeduse village that's in in the neighborhood area where the YMCA is. YMCA is just to the uh northeast within this drawing. This is Chattam Parkway fronting this edge. The reason I'm really the reason we're focused on this is because the anchor of this will be our next grocery store. And we're pretty we we've got to we're very close to the point where we've got to do more. We feel pretty good about a location here, but it's going to take about three years just to get through planning, design, permitting, construction before it can open. And [clears throat] that's about the timeline that we still have a non-compete with Lowe's of not being able to open a second grocery store. So, we're at that point where that's going to be an important milestone and we're getting ready to move into that. This area right here is um we're calling it the Novi Village, North Village. Um this is a concept plan will be an anchor. The scale of this, if you're familiar with the Fenton project in Kerry, it's about 75 acres. This is very similar to that from a size standpoint. We are focusing on residential here. Um, but we've also got most of our density that's going to be occurring in the north village will be here as well. So, it will all be starting out with multi levels, but eventually will evolve into that. our inspiration for a portion of this and some of these photos. If you've been to Charlotte in the Valentine area and seen the bowl, um that is pretty it's a really active [snorts] current thinking

in terms of retail, but it's been mixed use as well, but you can visit that and get get a feel for that. Don't know that it's going to again we've gone through eight or 10 concepts on this and we're still working on it. But I think thirdly, the most important thing from a non-residential standpoint for us is the commitment that we've got for the for you and from UNCC health and the hospital. If you look at any hospital development and the triangle and the non-residential development that occurs around that, it it just goes on and on and on. It's not just doctor's offices trying to be located there, but it's hotels, retail, all the things that are needed around a growing hospital. So, that's maybe the most important thing we've got going on. Um, and Disney's very important to us, but I I put the hospital right up there with them. Um, education, you may know some of these things. You You guys may already know these things, but I'm not sure if everyone does. So, but they're important to us. Education is one of the more important things we do. We've got two projects currently with the expansion of Thales, their 8 to 12th grade expansion. And then we're we've been regularly meeting with Chattam County Schools as they funded a North Village elementary school, a South Village elementary school. Talk about the location in the south in a minute.

Can I stop you for a minute?

I don't know if it'll fit in the time I've been.

It's my [laughter] Can you go back one screen? I want to talk about you're building a hospital.

I think I want to get back on building a hospital.

Well, you're Go ahead. Expand on that. So

we we are a town of 6,000 people. So a hospital here is profound.

It is. It's profound for us too.

Can you tell us a little bit more about it?

Well, obviously I can tell you conversations we have. I'll start off by saying that um hospitals and those kind of facil they don't really want to talk

about the word hospital because they will say in 10 years we're not sure what a hospital will be and so the only way I can wrap my brain around it is say it's going to be a hospital and

medical facility might be

we got 750,000 square feet of of building and medical use

750,000 on the site that we've cleared and done some grading but primarily clearing and getting ready for the first phase of construction. So it won't start off as a hospital and if you've seen what's gone on in Hillsboro and other pl I mean you know Hillsboro but primarily Apex other places where they start off with lesser building but medical uses before they get to that point. That's what at least the plan right now is without absolutely saying for certain that's what UNCC will do. They're hesitant to if you called them in here right now, they'd say, "I don't know what you're talking about."

Maybe Vanessa will kick me in the back for even saying as much as I said, but um if I can move on, but finally to say about this, at least planning with the school system, they're looking at a 29 2029 2030 opening of the elementary school. So, we've been finishing up the infrastructure work around them so they they're able to begin their site work and uh that comes along before the construction of the school affordable housing. There's been obviously we talked about really enjoyed your presentation, Mr. Foley. Um we have at this point got as you see 214 units registered. We've, you know, it's under construction at Chattam Parkway and 64 business with 338 units there. Uh we've got another 84 units that are approved and seeking funding, but uh

looking for some sort I think some sort of tax credits or things that go

Fire Tower Road

on Fire Tower Road. Um, we have we have met our threshold that we are required to meet from an affordable housing standpoint for our first 5,000 units with the construction of that project of of at Chattam Parkway. Um, so we're we we're well ahead and we are trying to remain ahead of our commitments, but um anyway, we'll be talking more about that as we go along. Parks and Recreation. Again, I'm not most of these things you know about. We've not mentioned there. We've got about two miles of greenway built. We have to provide a mile for every 700 homes. We're ahead of that schedule as well. Uh obviously the to us the Chattam Park YMCA one of the most exciting things we have um in our project. They have over 6,000 members. You may have heard that number, but incredible growth uh in a short period of time. you see the pinup demand that was waiting for that to happen. Um the across the street from the Y is our great lawn. That's we've already started programming events there. Uh it's an important space to us. It'll be an important community space, right? I'll say we're trying that that's where we plan on having our community Christmas tree as an example to have events around that. So again, programming is beginning. We've done a number of things already that are more on our scale, but that's going to continue, particularly with the as growth occurs as we get further into the non-residential development and the park opens um that's adjacent to it with that Katie can talk more about than me. Um from a residential standpoint over the next six years we've got 4700 lots that we feel pretty good schedule-wise in terms of platting. Now obviously this

is all based on getting approvals and different things from you. You're we can't we can't have this happen at this pace without you being involved in it. Um so but the these occur both in the north and the south. Most of it is in the north because obviously utilities are coming to allow it in the south other than del web. They have utilities now. But but what I would I asked miss asked Jonathan if I could at least touch on this subject because I've been we've been working with him just to understand is that you need to know that um the cost of your services are being met with our development. We I think Mr. Smith showed a slide that there's a $118 for service cost for every dollar of of value tax value. Um and for Chattam Park though that's not the that's not the case. Um, I think very preliminary numbers, and you guys correct me if I'm wrong, but somewhere between 490 495 $500,000 value needs to be hit with a home in order to pay for the extension of the cost of your services. I think that's a cons a preliminary number right now, but it's in the ballpark. He can verify that that's the case. We have uh our sales, we've gone back and looked at that the average the average over all of our home sales is $547,000. So about 10% above that threshold to meet cost of services. And that's not the tax value though, that's the sales phase. So I think the tax value I don't think I know the tax just because y'all increased taxes. So a number of those homes that were built before that the tax value was above the sales value. So, I think it's it's safer to say we're 10 to 15% above the cost of you extending and providing services.

Just point of clarification, we did not increase taxes. The county increased the value of your property. Our tax rates,

the reval

um can talk a lot about that, but I'm not that's not I'm replaced [clears throat] for that. Um obviously, the most important thing residentially we're doing in the North Village is the Asteria neighborhood. I think you probably know most of this. The first phase is under construction. Um, over 500 lots. They've got streets paved. I would I think I'm correct in this that the first home sales will be beginning late 27. Uh, so a little over a year from now. Uh, the other images here are from their club. And if you've had, this is incredible stuff. And if some of you have been through through the presentations, the amount of detail, the amount of thought they put behind this is second to none. And you can tell from some of these images how it's really it's going to be good stuff. We're really excited about it because so much of what happens to to us in Chattam Park is on based on what's happening here with the with Asteria. Just one thing about Hysteria. Um that is in my opinion the prettiest dog on part of Chad County that that stereo is building on and um I know that you honor that and know that we as citizens of Pittsburgh I'm speaking for myself I shouldn't say we the citizens but that [clears throat] that is profound land and um I know you value it. I hope you we will in the future. So, u I just had to point that out. That is the heart of Chattton County right there.

We would we would agree with you. Um I know some people would prefer to see something done differently in terms of what if you think it's valuable and that may translate differently to different people. Um I will say we not really part of this but we are in the process of starting the design of the hall portion of the Hall River Greenway on our on our

property there. That'll be the first greenway built within Eststeria prior. I mean, we'll that'll come online with the first homes as well. Um, I think we've got to have it constructed by 29. So, we'll be building it in designing in 27, building 28, having it open. That'll be an important part of the Hall River Greenway. It's an important part of what's going on along that corridor. So, we're excited about that. Um, now we're going to get more into the South Village. Um, most of you want me to point this. What's the blue lightning? Use the mouse too. Then you can show on the screen as well.

[clears throat]

Oh, there

um infrastructure important part of opening up the south. I'm only bringing this up. I'm not sure since Tri Rivers has taken over water and sewer how much you're aware of schedules or the construction scale schedule at Chattam Parkway. Uh the first phase which will be from 64 business down to 15501 through the south. that they are ahead of schedule and will open in 9 months. Um they're I think they're even a little bit ahead of June of 27, but that's that's an important part of this. Um the north section basically that that's from 3:00 to 6:00 from 12:00 to 3:00 as you look at a clock. Uh the north is first quarter of 28 I believe in opening. So that entire distance within a year and a half, a little less than that will will entirely be open. So that's going to be important for a number of reasons, not only for us, but I think u [clears throat] traffic

traffic wise downtown and other things related to that. Um you know that the sewer has been under construction from Sanford. uh that is scheduled to be complete in a little less than a year now. Uh water will be be in construction in the first quarter of 27. That's big water. We would be building um water serving the south village le smaller lines because there's still capacity. We would be building that as part of Chattam Parkway construction and in order to be able to serve the first uh development plans coming in. triggers happy year. Um, we submitted three now going on to what's h coming soon in the south village. We submitted three section design plans. You may be you may be familiar with that one is um they're tracking a little bit different schedule for all three. The first one is the the the heart of the of the south. I you just hover over this thing and it moves. Um sorry the uh for our golf golf course community. Um that can is made up of about 14,400 acres,400 units and about 325,000 ft of non-residential down in the bottom left corner there. Um that'll be very a mixeduse village portion of that uh project. Um the next two sections uh section 4.1 is about 110 acres.

That's in the middle of the Dell web community. Look at that in a second. And then section 4.3 is further up Chattam Parkway. 236 acres. they will fall behind uh the this submitt as we move forward with section design plans. Um web you are this. First lots coming online in the south will be in Del Web because we've they've been we had sewer in our plant to serve them until sewer came from Sanford and Sai River. There's about 2100 units associated uh with the Dell web two Dell web communities and a separate amenity for each north of Chattam Parkway there and south of Chattam Parkway are two separate Del Webb communities. Uh really incredible amenities on that. Um, I will say we had a we did very strategically look at um I'll talk about this a little bit more when we're talking about the climate action plan, but very strategically looking at the YMCA being a focal point of amenities in in our project as opposed to a private club that could only serve certain people. We felt there was a more of a equitable statement there. There's certainly great facilities with the with the uh Asteria and with Dell web. We're going to have and there will be more of those kind of for people who want those but not everybody wants those and also not with you're in different stages of life. You move into wanting to be part of a club to kids moving out and you don't you don't use tennis courts and pools and you know we've all different experienced that in different ways. So that was some of our thinking but also keeping cost of HOA dues down. [cough] uh public facilities. We some of you obviously some of you have been part of this but um we've already talked about

roads, water, and sewer. Two fire stations are in the south. There's actually Well, let's start with we've got one that is you you conducted a fire study with from with a third party consultant. They identified locations. Jay, you probably know more about that than I do being part of that. But one of those uh is just one of the sites that is taking a north fire station responsibility is just adjacent to our water recovery center on um business 64 as you come into town. Um, the second one is now I think the Jonathan can correct me if this is not completely true, but in working with the fire department along Gum Springs Road on the east side of of the uh golf course community far east that fits in another location approved by the consultant. So, those two are the next two at least. I don't know that the one to the east will be built anytime soon, but the location has been identified and approved. Um third uh elementary school see the location here to this is adjacent to Monare Pittsburgh Road and the this this is school has given us letters that they don't aren't looking for sites related to the first three such design plans but this is the site that they're focused on right now. They're going through their analysis of it's a funded site um or a funded project in in the South Village Elementary, but they're still determining this is going to be the site. We think it will be um four parks. You were part of the uh all of these in terms of approving locations for those. Um, and then finally, Tri River has settled on a water tank site that is just off of the screen as you see up

here to the northwest. It'll be close to Monure Pittsburgh Road, a little bit uh [clears throat] south of Chattam Parkway, south of Ebanks. Um, but within that a neighborhood we have there adjacent to section 3.1 by hour. if you if you know the section numbers in in the south village. So the the section design process has I think is this is consistent with what you were looking for when this was when this originated a year ago but we've gone through [clears throat] a process of moving things around adjusting to where the staff wanted to see things adjusted I think to where you wanted to see things and now we've settled on some things that we can then design neighborhoods around. So that was a first that was an early step making that making that happen. Um I wanted to talk about this. This was obviously a lightning rod in many ways when we were talking about the small area plan because there's this perception that Chattam Park the size of what we're doing is harmful to the climate size of you don't get an opportunity to weigh in on things certain things happening. I think our scale is what enables us to do some things. And I don't know if you got a copy of [clears throat] turned in a copy of our climate action plan. I trust that you

No, we do.

Okay. Um I'm not I'm just going to since you've got that, I'm [clears throat] just going to highlight a few things. Um we've we've actually been working on this since the beginning. Many of many of the the pillars we've got three pillars, climate, biodiversity, and advocacy. Um much of that detail is has in our elements, water repairarian buffers, uh [snorts] more trees being protected. um we can get in, you know, obviously there was a lot of public comment about whether there's enough of these things, but compared to other

development and and an urban setting, we feel we feel pretty strongly that uh we're doing some pretty good things. And uh when you look at the totality of the plan that we've put together, there's a lot that has occurred, not just we're putting some things together, but a lot has already occurred. Two examples here most people know about is the 5 megawatt solar farm that we've got in the south village that's supplying clean energy to over 750 homes. Um and secondly our water um our water recovery center 500,000 gallons per day water recovery center that we're conserving water through wastewater reuse. This is really I I I really enjoy this and I don't know if you kind of looked at the little analytics within some of the data here. This um mitigating greenhouse gas emissions again through community planning. We've created our Echos select residential energy rating system that all of our homes have to be built by. Um you can see if you look at that that this uh it's a the average hurd score for our homes is 60 average home is 100. So when you look at the the information to the right of that the cumulative energy savings compared to what if you meet North Carolina building code standards which is a great standard um we with the houses that we built to this point so about 2 million square feet of houses we're ultimately building 55 million square feet of houses that will have energy savings associated with them. These numbers right here are only dealing with that first two million square feet that have been built. So when you look at uh 2.7 million pounds of carbon emissions avoided already just with that amount of construction, that's an important statement. Um looking at that offsets, you would plant 31 over 31,000 trees to offset carbon generated

by the difference in standard building and what we are building. um those that's a strong statement and since you know we aren't we don't build non-residential buildings but we do have houses being built that we have some influence about how they're built this is a pretty to me is a pretty strong statement about what we're doing from a from a climate standpoint [clears throat] um also develop sustainable multimmodal lowcarbon communities that's what we're uh that says 55 miles. We've looked at we're over 62 miles of we got 30 mi of greenway, 32 miles of multi-use paths. Multi-use paths becoming [clears throat] more of a more in vogue in terms of I think I don't know that it's in your standards yet, but we're being required to do it more and more with with our plans uh since they're 10 basically 10 sidewalks closer to the street as opposed to going through the woods. it it reduces area of vehicular dependency by providing those those kind of facilities. The other thing that's been kind of exciting that's again you don't see it happening much but we are using on-site rock whether we're crushing it using in our road constructions whether we're using in some retaining walls but that reduces embodied carbons from bringing in other manufactured aggregates important you know again some this is maybe getting into the weeds but I think these are important things given the perception that we weren't doing anything and and I I disagree with that. Um the um biodiversity is the second pillar that we're focusing on and it works hand inand with climate uh nature-based systems for climate adaptation. Uh our standards that you know we built a different type of street when we have a planting strip adjacent to the street sidewalk behind it. Walking safer behind those trees, more trees, more shade on

the street. um that reduces and helps mitigate local heat island effects. Uh the we are using some areas of the rightway for storm water devices. We have tree wells if you've really looked at those when you've been out there. Those are as part of a as part of a green infrastructure statement that we're making and we think it's important that you can't again it takes a project of our scale to be able to do it. You can't require people to do that because it's so expensive. We can't do it everywhere, but we can incorporate it in what we're doing. Um, this is again, we have a goal [clears throat] to protect and restore 30% of existing and degraded ecosystems. Uh, our buffer, our repairarian buffer requirements are a big part of that. they they I don't think the state allows you to uh require um [clears throat] more tree protection and other things right now, but we still have that as our requirements. Uh so we've got expanded standards on that compared to others. Uh again, using green. So you've seen out there grass swailes, you've seen constructed wetlands, different things that we've done that are out of the ordinary. traditional storm water uh design. There's a big part of that, too. And there's been some question from why would you give credit for preserving on-site soils? That's an important part of a biodiversity plan and trying to we we can't require it. We're trying, we encourage it though with our SC stormwater scoring system and that just increases that the amount of u that soil top soil that we're able to retain. And then we've we also established a while ago a conservation easement stinking creek to help pro preserve and protect the that the ecosystem there. Um I'll just say this is this is not a small point. Um again big projects

we're going through we're going through individual permitting uh for the south village in terms of with the core of engineers in terms of um what we're able to do from stream impacts a one acre if if you were developing one acre of land without going through the permitting process you could get 300 ft of stream impact that would that would come to you without going through any sort of uh formal process more with the with the core. We we have in our plan at this point we will have 1.2 feet per acre of stream impact in the south village that we will we are permitting. So what's that 1/300th a little 250 much but but again looking at at a larger scale you're able to do those kind of things than if you're going at it a little piece at a time. So again I think it's an important statement um I think this is the last slide that uh in biodiversity to deploy site enhancement that restore native flora and fauna we've you've talked about with your own leaf procla or resolution proclamation

yeah that's an that's an important thing I mean it was important enough to you to do what you did and but it doesn't just you have to encourage that's part of the advocacy part of this that uh you're you're having to encourage people to do this. We we have our own standards that we are requiring pollinators, pollinator plants to be uh put back into the landscape after clearing occurs as you're restoring your landscape. Native plant requirements, warm season grass requirements. We've you've heard about you've probably all received honey from us from our honeybees. Um, and the one without getting into this the you may you may wonder what we be we would be doing from an advocacy standpoint is this the one of the more interesting things I've been able to do.

We're part of the urban land institutees master plan community council again because there are a number around the country. We come together twice a year to talk about projects. Almost unanimously, every one of those are quality of amenity driven. That's the most important thing. Safety, cleanliness, quality of um and we go in talking about these and talking about sustainable issues. uh we talked about the why starting to catch on as a concept that uh because again it was it it was a more equitable statement and providing things that um only a certain view could be part of uh it's starting to catch on around the [snorts] country as we talk about it. So that's where I'm talking we have been able to advocate for certain things that we would not have been able to if we're doing 100 lot subdivisions. So, this was getting a name on the map and I think Mr. Bon, you just referred to that that that you're people are interested in providing certain kinds of amenities and facilities here. Um, good things are happening. Sometimes it it may not feel like that at the particular moment, but they are but they are coming. So, that's more than my five minutes. I apologize for that, but we don't get an opportunity to do this much and felt like we should take advantage of it. So, thank you.

A clarifying question. You said uh your presentation says 55 miles of greenways, but you verbally said I think you said

32 [clears throat] miles of multi-use paths and

30 in the north, 20 in the south, and then north and south multi-use is 32.

30 and 32. just came across a peer-reviewed study on pollinator and solar farms at the same time. And as

it turns out, there is a study out that says the best way to to uh to uh encourage pollination and uh also species variation is to plant local grass and local wild flowers around your your uh your solar your plant instead of [clears throat] cutting the grass. And all of a sudden you have all this beautiful new species of insects. And and

you're saying local, but you're really you're talking native. I mean native is important, right?

Exactly. Yeah. Native. So I don't know if you're doing that, but

throw that in say we have a lot of control over strata. Um and I'm not so I can't tell you that they've I know I read that it's still going on in ter maybe not exclusively, but they but they were. Yes. and they we we as much as we can encourage sometimes we have that kind kind of control but one thing that's in the plan that uh you have before you but we're in the process of developing a the a developers guide to sustainable development in Shadow Park. to other people coming in doing these things. Again, we're going to we're going in the direction of a scoring system to be able to do require without requiring if if you will. [clears throat] [snorts]

Thank you.

All right. Up next, we have a presentation on the Roben Creek master plan.

[snorts]

y'all have in your packets the master plan and [clears throat] you were able to take a look at it. Um, I'm only gonna focus on one to this was the final concept and I want to make sure that we first and foremost

just have a big disclaimer and understanding too on the master plan just so just so we remember that master plans in itself these are these are ideas these are potentials of what came in here right this is not saying hey we have to do every single thing that is on this this plan, right? This is concepts. What we did is we went and we talked to the public and our stakeholders and we had several public information meetings and this is what was determined by our community of saying these are the things that we wanted and then when the designers came in and say okay if these are the priorities for a passive park. This is the flow of what you want them in, right? Um based off of topography for, you know, certain things for like a pump track and where you want it to be and centered around um and that type of thing. So, and full connectivity and balancing your pave path versus your all natural paths. at full buildout. If we were to ever do full buildout, 85% of it would still remain undisturbed. So, want to make sure that we're putting that in there as well. This is going to be our primary passive park. We really wanted to make sure that we are keeping this passive and giving that very much natural exploration type space. This is also going to do full connectivity, right? This is eventually whatever if you zoom out, there's going to be a lot of things going in the surrounding area development wise. And so it was vital for us to want to make sure to have a plan to where we could really focus on where we were going to maximize our connectivity as a whole.

Um, so again, just want to make sure sometimes I think that it gets overwhelming whenever you see this like, oh, this is really beautiful. It looks really expensive. This is not saying [clears throat] we have to do this. This is saying, hey, we can do some of these things. We could do a very phased approach on it. We do want LAR I know the to the left of at the top they still have some things that they are required to build including the parking lot some bathrooms a little bit of the connectivity of a greenway. So right so this on the other side there's a green m green greenway that's going to be connecting through the south village. So this is going to be a good part of the plan to have in place to understand really where those connections are going to be best placed.

Good question for you. We have a method. We have an understanding with uh what's the group that's doing the

rehild. Thank you.

Uh their process is going to end in what what six months is that four months? Five months. What's the method of understanding? What's the timing on it?

I think they're going to get started on their next phase shortly and then go into April when the ticks come out, which is I think when they came out last time. So, the next phase I I think what it's going to

They don't necessarily have an end date,

but she just that's what you're asking.

She's getting started soon, right? She

Yeah. And I'm not saying we need to rush this, but I'm wondering why we're we're talking about I'd uh respectfully I'd much rather focus on Town Lake Park for a park. I don't see a lot of foot traffic. What are we doing here that we that can't wait till after we do some more

clearing?

So, I'll say two parts to that. first part with Town Lake. We do have some funds that we have payment and lose in that that's already on our list and we are already on the works for that because that is I told Jonathan the other day he was like oh we got some things and I was like nope don't touch it we are focusing on prioritizing tal um that is something from the community that has always been a priority and that is my priority as well. Um May I think she just stepped out. She mentioned that there could be something potentially that would help with some of the flooding studying that could also have some additional funding that we're going to meet on this next. Yes, that would also help potentially speed up that process too.

I thought we were going to put this away for a while. So, I think that the only reason why that this it and we're looking for approval right now for this is because we have other things that are coming up specifically for LAR and needing they they have to build it's in their developers agreement that they have to build the parking lot, they have to build the bathrooms and so much of a part of it for here. And we were just looking at saying, okay, if this is a grand scheme of thing, where is it going to be best located? That's it.

Okay. So, I I didn't mean to interrupt, but I I just I know that this this 72 acres is was kind of like we're going to work on this at a later date.

Thanks.

And yeah. And so why is it here today? What is it that

is it parking lot or what are we what do we want to talk about? It would probably look at where your number closer to your number 13 and where your seven, right? And then we would look at where some of that depending on how much their connectivity is their square footage of the multi-purpose to see if

we could go and do at least a little bit of a loop there

because

Okay. So, we're actually providing a service for a development that's coming in. And that's what the not a service, but an amenity is a better word for it. Uh for a development that's going to be built there.

I think they're they're going to build it. We need to tell them where to build it. We need to decide now where to build it.

Yes. That's that's

in that it's it will provide additional parking for the plant and then it also is a correct piece in the greenway from downtown light.

Yes,

totally up to date that. Thank you.

My also a greenway connection to the south

that we want to try to figure out where that best point is. So really we're just trying to get the the nuts and bolts completed so when these developers show up we can say put put that there, put that there and put that there.

Okay. Thank you. I have the big picture now. My apologies. It's late.

It's all good. It's Monday. It's fine.

Not for much longer.

Brought me in now to pick it up a little bit. I'm your caffeine. Okay.

Thank you, Katie.

Caffeine Katie.

I love you. [laughter] And to kind of further, you know, answer some of y'all's concerns with wanting to make sure we're spending money appropriately in the right places at the right time, you will have to do an RFQ or an RFP to figure out how we get that baseline design done and that will come to you all. So you all will see what exactly we're looking at. You also will see exactly what that will cost. So at that point, if you decide to not move forward, then you can. But we do kind of need direction to keep it going. And an approved master plan enables us to get grants and and other things. [clears throat]

One question, Kate, would the multi-use church section will it have to be

built in during this section with the parking lot and all because it doesn't it tie back in with the uh sorry fairgrounds? Yes. Yes. Okay.

We we've still got to figure all that out because [snorts] they're on the hook for 2700 linear feet. So on the fairgrounds property, some of that is going to have to be a boardwalk. So, you know, a linear foot of boardwalk is not the same as a linear foot of just level surface, right? So, we've got to figure out an agreement with them on how we we get that done. And then if there's anything left over, I think that's where Katie wants to say, "Cool, you've got 500 ft left over. We'd like you to put it right here."

Got it.

And when they're ready to build those bathrooms in that parking lot, saying like, "Here's our design. Put it right here."

And then same with the southern connection to the greenway going to the south village.

Okay. Just trying to stay ahead of the game.

Any other questions?

Apologize. Yeah, I' I've got a a whole lot of them. Um and in concerns and um I feel like we really need to um I I'll echo Commissioner Foley's thoughts that we need to put this on hold. Uh I think we need to meet the immediate need of approval of location of parking and obviously start moving forward with the greenway. Um and I suppose the bathrooms also have to be cited. um the other aspects of it. Um I'm I'm very uncomfortable with proceeding as if it is uh the finality of a plan. Um, the reason is that I think so much

of what [clears throat] what I hope to come out of the next six months of work by rewinding within is an understanding of what's there in the park. a deeper understanding of we've already discovered Chattam County's largest black walnut, a champion black walnut tree. Uh right next to that or near it is a cluster of trees that are just magical. And um it's not [clears throat] like these were unknown to humans, but it's been 50 or 75 years since they were last appreciated. And there's a lot of other things that we will be be discovering in this park. We discovered two beavers. I photographed them. [clears throat]

The existence of those beavers gives me pause to making any infrastructure investments or developments that would encourage large numbers of people to go into the park. Um because beavers and humans are kind of a risky thing to mix up. Um, and humans have been injured by messing around with beavers and beavers were [clears throat] there first. Beavers do tend to come and go. Um, but I reached out to some um beaver experts in North Carolina. I just think, you know, there's so many things that we need to learn more about. What I'd be willing to do is um have a deeper conversation on this at our workshop that we're going to schedule for the town hall. Um and we can get closer to what we really must do right now, which is uh decide on placement of parking and bathrooms. So that's my preference.

There's been significant effort put into all these plans and public input like we've talked about previously, lots of lots of public input and um we often talk about advisory board recommendations as well and there's a unanimous recommendation from the advisory board. Um and I think that the the master plan is as Katie said, it doesn't require any of this stuff, but it enables a lot of future planning. um there's certainly nowhere in here in the sense that we're going to, you know, cut down a champion tree that's discovered or things like that. So, I mean, I think that to kind of put a a pin in the work that's been done to this point for the master plan uh is really important and then we'll work from there on what this looks like as as it builds out over time and we have the the funds and the ability to to do that as I see additional things develop. But um you know I think we we do need to be careful about decisions but we also need to make decisions as well and um continue to move into other decisions. So [clears throat]

fair enough. And and I'll respond to that, Mr. [snorts] Mayor, that uh this is not the decision that I'm wanting to make right now emphatically. Um, so, um, and I feel like I've heard from a lot of constituents who feel similarly. Um, and [clears throat] we haven't made a big stink out of this, but, um, I think that we need to proceed with caution and, uh, solidify the plan for parking and bathroom locations, uh, and get things moving forward with the greenway. Um, but I think that we need to uh table this master plan uh until after we have a deeper understanding of what the land is inside this park. I don't I don't know that it' be responsible to prove just tiny portions

of the plant about the rest of the plan either. So, you know, there's been so much effort that's been put into this as a as a whole that's come to us multiple times and gone to community multiple times. [snorts] Um, concerns are brought up, changes made. I'd like to hear a little bit more about Excuse me, Morhead.

I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Go ahead.

But I'd like to hear a little bit more about the feedback from our constituents. Uh, I've been in this this area. I know. I know. Originally, this was sold like we're going to keep this as it is. We're not going to put any effort in it. And now we have a master plan. And all of a sudden, I just want to hash it out. I I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. I I see how much work this is by your staff. I see a profound how much it would take intellectually to plot this out. Um, but we as a board [clears throat] need to be certain that this is this is a priority or is not a priority. And so if you give us a grace and we we we bring it to a work session so we can hash it out, we can absolutely understand what the pros and the cons are. Uh, I would I would welcome a work session with that. It's it's a it's a democratic uh must in my eyes.

K, can I ask you a question? Um, I've heard we know that there's at least one home site that we saw there and I've heard that there's potentially other home sites that might be out there. Um, and even a potential cemetery. Let's just say that when Rehild goes in, they do discover that and that's right where the pump track is going to be or something or is the is the cost of having to go back

to the drawing board to redo this um if should something like that be found I mean is that going

uh No, what we would do is if there's something in and we

can wait to

we could say go back to the public and we could say if this is still priority where else would be a more ideal place given the location to where it would still flow and make sense right um of I don't foresee [clears throat] being yeah

I defer to uh the people that are more involved in it than I am with this this effort effort. I understand the staff has planning issues to do with with the trails and with Lenar's development coming in and so uh but I also have responsibility to the people that I represent. So I'd like to hear a little bit more about before we make it decision. And just a [clears throat] side note is like I because I've heard this a couple of times and I'm not really sure where that's come from is you know you mentioned the black walnut is those trees that are there that are that are large and beautiful those would never be cut down more than anything is we would look at those and find ways to enhance them. Whether that would be something to where we would have strategic lighting or have a little feature that would really be able to showcase their beauty and things like that and find a way to integrate a feature in it to really have some chairs sitting at the bottom so you could just really just sit and [clears throat] relax, right? or some type of um there's another national park that um that someone I know was going to and they had these beautiful lounge chairs that were just like I would have never thought

that putting a lounge chair, right? And it just looked so

beautiful.

It didn't [clears throat] look out of place, right? And so thinking of something to provide there where you could just sit and relax or you know hammocks around or something, but that would never be an option. So when we find these sites that we're like, hey, we want to enhance this area. Again, that's the beauty of a master plan. This is not a we have to do it this way. When we go and we're walking and we're finding areas that we really want to preserve, we don't have to just say, "No, we can't do it because this is not on the master plan." That's not what this means, right? This is just say, hey, pump track would look would be ideal in this area because the topography is is nice here and it's closer to the parking lot to where especially if you're a younger child and you want to have a bike close to the parking lot. So, it's right there, right? You're not having to haul it all the way across the park.

This is the entrance to Pittsburgh, isn't it?

[clears throat]

I mean, two weeks. That's not inappropriate. Two weeks so we can hash it out. I want to I want to hear from my fellow commissioners. If we don't want to do it here, we can do it in two weeks. Uh I I already have one opinion. Uh and I respect it, but I'd like to hear from the rest of us just to see what's what's this really about. According to my notes, this is the sixth meeting that we've considered this item. Uh not in this sorry, but um you know I think if there's targeted questions then you know we should address them but um

my my biggest hard question I'll answer you uh is why are we doing this now when

we have other parks that need attention? We have already been told that this park is something that we're going to be referring to for years and all of a sudden we have a final concept and uh that's my point. Why why all of a sudden are we doing this?

I think final is a difficult I mean it's a it's a it's a master plan.

It's a master plan. Um just like we have master plans in a lot of other places. I mean, going back to I think [clears throat] March 25 is when we talked about a fiscal year 26 goal of having this completed um in conjunction with a lot of other parks that are being planned throughout all of town and additional improvements to parks connection uh with greenways and all those other things. So, this is not the I guess the repetitive nature of the meetings is is potentially taking time from other things, but we are working on plans for Town Lake Park. We are working on Greenway connectivity throughout the area. Um, but we've got to get some of those to a point in the process that then we can move on to other things. um we can approve this plan and then see what that implementation looks like, begin to look at prices, begin to look at grants, all of those things. Um if we never make it past the master plan process, we're just going to keep talking about it.

I'm asking you to give us two weeks.

That's two weeks.

I move that we table this until the planning board, excuse me, the uh the workshop uh two weeks from today. Second, a motion, a second. Any discussion?

Yeah, I have a little bit of discussion. Um, we've had numerous weeks to bring up any issues with this master plan and uh if any board members have not sent Katie any information, why are we waiting two more weeks? This is a concept final plan.

It's [snorts] I mean, I don't understand the delay. I I mean, I don't think we're going to be disturbing the Beavers. We're we're we're looking for a design concept to get this rolling with the developer so we can match our other greenways and that's I just don't understand the delay. Sorry. It has been this has been brought to Katie's brought this to us numerous times. Any other discussion? All those in favor say I.

I. I. I.

Oppos. I.

Motion passes. Next we have a public hearing. PB 26 215 treid build reszoning. I'll take a motion to open the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Thurber. Second. There a second.

Uh second Foley. All those in favor say I.

I. Any oppose?

All right, let's do it.

Good evening. Uh [clears throat] good evening, mayor and board. This is conditional zoning case uh PB 26 215, otherwise known as the Intrepid Build property. Uh the subject property is approximately 4.047 acres is located uh southwestish of the Hall River filtration plant along Highway 15501. Uh the property is currently developed with a single family residence, detached garage, storage shed, and a swimming pool. The property is currently zoned from rural residential agriculture which is

the RA2 district. Uh the adjacent zoning districts to the north are rural res rural agricultural district which is the RA5 and to the southwest and east is all RA2 as well. The applicant is proposing to reszone the property to community mix center zoning CM UCCC. Um the intent of the community mixed juice center is uh to provide lands that accommodate moderate to higher intensity um autoaccessible development that's appropriate for a highway commercial area um to serve the town and the region. Um, so the Pittsboro land use map classifies the subject property as residential and so therefore the proposed reszoning to community mixed use center CMUCCZ is inconsistent with the current classification for the future land use map. Um but in this specific case for the conditional zoning, the proposed conditional zoning is consistent with the overarching goals of our comprehensive plan, our land use plan and our EDO that concentrates smart growth around uh transportation corridors and uh [clears throat] connects different uses uh or a combination of uses. However, for this specific site, since it is future land use classified as residential, um it's inconsistent with the land use classification. Um but again for this spec this is a new condition um state law NCGS uh 1605 says that the board of commissioners can approve a resoning that is inconsistent with the future land use map and in doing so it would automatically um amend the future land use map to be in harmony with the reasoning [clears throat] the conducted the community meeting on March 31st, 2026. And the community meeting report is attached in packet. Um

a full list of the proposed uses and zoning conditions can be found starting on page two of that report. And the applicant is primarily proposing residential uses um live work drawings along with office and community oriented and some recreational uses as well. Um and the permitted accessory uses would include accessory dwelling units, fences, walls, storage sheds, swimming pools, spa or hot tubs. Um and there are two conditions that I want to speak to directly um included in your site report and that's about noise and development intensity just because we are in the ETJ um currently and it's around the rural residential agricultural districts. Um, so for any outdoor recreation facility, um, the condition excludes wedding venues and, um, concerts or parties that go past 10 p.m., got it.

Um, as well as an outdoor lighting, uh, condition that says any outdoor lighting would be shut off by 10 p.m. So, kind of limiting that light pollution that would bleed onto other properties. Um, another condition specific to this project. So if the property is redeveloped, uh the entire site is limited to a single driveway access just to limit the ingress points to Highway 15501. It's just a good planning practice to make sure that there's one spot and you're not adding more driveways onto a highway. And so planning staff recommends approval of the conditional zoning case. and the planning board met on August 17th and recommended approval of the conditions in case as um offered by the applicant and I would be very happy to answer any immediate questions. He sens the applicant is here as well uh to kind of talk through bit application as well. Good evening board and uh members of and

mayor. I'm sorry. Good evening, mayor. [clears throat] And I know it's been a long night, so I won't go through everything. Uh I know you have it in your packet as well, but just really quickly, I'm Tyler Stenson. I'm a project manager with Intrepid Build. Been with Intrepid Build for a little over a year. Um we're a small team of GC right here in Pittsburgh. Um, we're working very hard to have this as a space to bring our team together. Right now, we're on multiple job sites, multiple office spaces, and sometimes even mobile offices. This is an opportunity for us to collaborate together, work together, train each other, as well as look to expand our team. Of course, as we grow, we want to bring new members on. uh this would give us an opportunity to build out an office and as well as look to bring on additional team members uh so that we can continue to grow. With that said, also look at helping the community grow. Uh I pride myself in the community very much here in Chattam County and Pittsburgh. Um being a former department head and director for local government in Chattam County as well as being on um few advisory boards. Uh, I definitely appreciate local government, town staff, and commend all of y'all on what it takes to be in these roles. They're tough. Um, hard decisions have to be made, but with that as well, a decision like this is strategic. So, when you're looking at a decision to be made as a board, you're thinking on multiple fronts. for this specific piece of property in this parcel. Our goal is to one make this our office, but it also wants I want this and our team wants this to be a place we can bring community. Um, we don't fully understand what that may be yet, but we all pride ourselves with our connections, our relationships in the community. So, that's what we want to build upon as well. Additionally, I I don't have a presentation. We we didn't prepare a presentation on what it looks like yet,

but we know that this is a great property for us to build our team and to build something very special. Um, we also don't plan to disturb the the existing structure at all. I know that's a um something that comes up quite often when we when we talk about the property. Um, so that's not our goal as well. Um, if y'all have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. [clears throat]

Tyler, thank you for that uh overview. I'll just dive right in and and say I'm going to uh signal very clearly I'm I'm inclined to support the proposal. I'm eager to make the motion for it. Um but uh acknowledging that this is merely a resoning. Um would you care to share with us a little bit more elaboration about what construction actually would happen on the site?

So I'm not going to oblige you to anything. So, just ideas that we're having right now because nothing there's no plans, no no uh drawings made up or anything yet. Um our our main goal is truly to to go inside, look at making it compliant with commercial structure and making it office spaces for us as well as looking as some type of conference area where we can bring clients, friends, and and individuals that want to learn more about Intrepid um and be a space that we can conduct our business as well as be a community. hub in a sense to to just build on networking and our relationships with this community. That that's our goal. Um nothing immediate uh of construction. It's really just to get this space to an office space set up for us.

Mr. Mayor, I'd just like to reiterate even though this is a conditional zoning, the representations of the applicant are not something that you all can rely upon. You are to determine whether or not this property with these is appropriate for the uses that have been listed.

Absolutely. [clears throat] Thank you, Becky.

Any other questions or comments?

Tyler. Hey.

Hey, John.

First off, are you going to keep the

pool?

Uh, well, I'm well, coming from local government, I am a certified pool operator. Okay. 100% correct. Bulls are very challenging. Uh I do think we are going to make an effort to keep the pool. Um but uh that may change.

Okay, that's a good political answer.

My my biggest concern is uh aesthetics. I can't really gripe a lot because you're right next to the uh the water treatment plants.

So there's not a lot of but you are at the entrance of Pittsburgh. And so, uh, we, uh, I, as a board member, um, would love to see, uh, aesthetics that match our community. So,

and, and to kind of expand on that, that's something that we want as well. So, uh, as as being a a general contractor, we would love to be the builder of Chattam County and Pittsburgh. Um, we know that this property is is right near Chattam Park, right near Asteria. um right on the entrance of 15501 to Pittsburgh. It's it's a very good location. Um but we would take pride in in being something that's beautiful as people are coming into Pittsburgh. I can assure you that.

Is there an architectural standard condition that you're proposing to add? Uh I'd be I think

you know I I I wanted to I'm Zachary coffee build um our goal is to take a lot of the sentiments of a lot of the development discussions here and take them into full account you know I'm a lead AP personally right so um you know trying to reuse and repurpose and do as much to you know satisfy those those goals is huge right Um, also the aesthetics that house is historically, I mean whether anybody wants to admit it or not, it's it's got significance in the community. Everybody knows it. Um, the families that have lived in there,

we want to we we we we want to pay homage to that as well, right? But, uh, factually, you know, we we do have to bring our operations into modern standards in terms of risk and quality of workspace and things like that. So, um we're going to be significantly um modernizing kind of our approach to how that is going to all come together. But in terms of your architectural question, I think that the dialogue is open. You know, if if there's a certain aesthetic that's being looked at want that needs to work with what you guys have going on, we're you know where to find us. I mean, we're not planning on making any immediate changes to road frontage for at this at this juncture. There's there's absolutely no no mentality there. Um, what we would what we would be working to do is working on the back side of the property that's kind of blind from the public view anyway. That's what, you know, where we're going to have our main entry, which is kind of in the vision.

So, you got it.

Any other questions or comments? All right. No one has signed up to speak for the public hearing. So I'll take a motion to close the public hearing. So move.

Thank you. Commissioner Ferrell. [clears throat] Second.

Second. Commissioner Thurber.

I.

All those in favor say I.

Right. Can I make a motion to adopt the ordinance to conditional zoning PB26-215 in Trevid building?

Second. Thank you. And a second by Commissioner Bonnets. All those in favor say I. I.

All right. Motion passes. Next we have a public hearing PB 26370 H property [clears throat] reszoning. I'll take a motion to open the public hearing. Thank you Commissioner Ferrell. Second.

Second.

Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor say I.

I [clears throat] back to back. Um so this is conditional zoning case B26 370

otherwise known as the Hansen property. U this subject property is originally 4 acres and is located um north of the Walgreens um and south of the new town hall site. It's right across on along east Salisbury Street. Um to the west is single family residential or sorry to the east is single family residential and to the west is some office and commercial spaces. Um the property is currently developed with a single family residence. This was surveyed um by the ar architectural um I think Chattam County architectural but it was not listed so it was never uh entered into shipo or the state historic preservation board um and has a detached metal storage shed.

[clears throat]

So the property is currently zoned high density residential which is the R10 district and the adjacent zoning districts to the north and east are also R10 and to the south is a neighborhood commercial CC. Uh so uh C1C which is the Walgreens site and to the west is light industrial as well as highway commercial which is C2. So the applicant is proposing to reserve the property to office and institutional uh conditional zoning. And the intent of this office and institutional my goodness uh is to provide lands to accommodate a mix of office and institutional as well as some smallcale retail um multif family development um general development that will serve as a tradition uh transition between higher density mixed use um and residential districts. The mitzvah land use map uh classifies the subject property as downtown support and so this proposed resoning to office and institutional is consistent with the land use classification. The applicant conducted a community

meeting on June 11th 2026 and the community report is in your uh packet. A full list of the proposed uses and zoning conditions can be found starting on page two of that staff report. Um [clears throat] the applicant is proposing some residential uses such as live work, single family, duplex or town home along with some small scale office or commercial um or institutional uses such as like a medical dental office, a restaurant office or government admin um a bed and breakfast etc. Um so all accessory uses within the O andi uh zoning district are permitted here uh according to the accessory specific standards that are in our UDO sections 3.3.4 and 3.3.5. Um I would like to highlight two additional conditions. Um so I think it's condition six in your staff report. Um so if the property is redeveloped or new construction occurs, all parking is going to be located in the rear of the property. Um so m maintaining that road frontage uh along East Salsbury and there will be sidewalk connections located on the site to give uh safe pedestrian access as well as um along the site's frontage along Ja Ferrell. Uh the applicant has agreed to these conditions um but included a residential exemption clause for the two sidewalk connections. So if the property maintains and is not redeveloped and no new construction occurs, the sidewalk along Jer would not be constructed. But as soon as new construction comes in for non-residential use or redevelopment, that's when the sidewalk connection would be triggered. Um and so the planning board met on August 17th and unanimously recommended approval of this conditional zoning case. Um with the addition of condition seven in your staff report, which is to say that if this property um or this building on property would were to be

demolished, the town would need a 90-day notice. Um and I believe that that's just for the historic preservation um of the building that currently sits on the structure on the property. Um, and [clears throat] staff also recommends approval of this conditional zoning case.

Miss Penn couldn't be here. Um, but I included her presentation that she created for planning board and for BOC and I can answer any questions that you may have.

Any [clears throat] questions? I have one listen um just um regarding the sidewalk

and [clears throat] I think I spoke to you earlier about it, but I'm just a little confused on on the sidewalk. If the uh can we have a condition added that if the the reszoning goes overnight and a law firm dental office comes in there and does no remodeling or nothing, can we request request that that sidewalk be added all the way down that street? I can certainly reach out to Miss Hinton and say there's a non-residential change of use then the sidewalk would be triggered if if that makes sense. So if a lot

I'm I'm I'm saying it's no development.

Yes.

Okay.

So can we add that in?

Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Is that right? just for pedestrian um walking since the the town owns the other part of that block.

Yes. Like making just a change of use. If I think if any use were to purchase the property as that can go in O and I then they would have to put that sidewalk in unless it was residential, right?

Goes O and I it will be sidewalk provided.

So with the zoning residential or an O and use can go in there, right? [snorts] So if an O and I use like a law office to buy it, then they would need to put that sidewalk in before

I think a a CO would be issued. But if it were a residential use,

it continues as it is. But that's with

the change you just requested.

Okay.

Thanks.

Thank you, Commissioner Ferrell. So I'm curious um how how that is encoded or or recorded uh in documentation for memory sake. [clears throat] It could be 10 20 50 years from now that the use changes. So

once this gets if it gets approved I believe we have files on track for every conditional zoning that gets approved. So we record it [clears throat] and we keep it. Okay.

And if um something were to happen and they would need a site plan um we would pull those conditions and look at them simultaneously with the site plan.

Okay. Thank you.

And this has been on the market [clears throat] for a long time as residential. So we think also the transition to commercial works for that area and also for the resale property. So it's it's likely this change will help move this property along.

Yeah. Yeah.

So the the current condition [clears throat] says uh only triggered by the redevelopment of the property for non-residential purposes or commencement of new commercial construction. So is that not talking about just a change of use or I guess what does redevelopment mean in that way if it's not construction?

Yeah, I believe redevelopment would also mean like if they were to create a parking lot in the back. Um, so it's they're kind of similar. Um, and then I can add the change of use as well. So if it's a non-resident use that comes in, they they'll need to add that sidewalk.

I guess I'm just trying to [clears throat] see if we're good with what it is. If if it were to be on O and I like they would need to add a parking lot or a concrete handicap space or something like that. Is [snorts] that correct?

I would assume so. We we can't require that anymore. We can't require parking,

right? minimums, but but they would probably I would assume any business development that comes in would want to create parking spaces for their business.

So with that new house bill, you you can't even demand I mean require handicap parking.

Well, that's still um I believe that's still like above a local government's jurisdiction. So it's like a state requirement that ADA parking accessible spaces are provided. Um, but beyond that, we wouldn't be able to require five more spots that weren't 88.

I guess I'm just trying to see like if that if or maybe Mr. Bessik, like if we're saying a transition from residential use to any type of ONI use, would that be considered this redevelopment as is currently said? If you were to add a

I thought redevelopment was a broad enough term to cover that. I think the intention is is clear. I'll make sure we're covered with the language, but adding a parking spot, you know, paved ADA parking spot would be the red development covered. Yeah.

Well, the Department of Insurance would regulate that if it was a [clears throat] commercial use. You would be able to get insurance without complying with that once you worked on the street, I guess. So, you think we're good as is?

I did. Yes, I do. Still

good. Good to hear. Does that sound good?

Thank [clears throat] you. Thank you.

Any other questions, comments? [clears throat] No one signing. That's not one person signed up for this public hearing. Um, so, uh, Laura Beaver Ham, if you can come up, please state your name and address.

Hi there. My name is Laura Beaver Hammer and I live at 11 Noi Street. I'm the co-owner and the permanent full-time resident of that house. And our house is the one that is closest to the east of the Hinton property. Um, I love living

in Pittsburgh. after frequently visiting my sister who's a 35 year resident of the community and then my mom who lived here for a few years before she died. I was really excited to become a permanent resident here just a few years ago. And I really love being able to walk up town and go to the restaurants and the shops and stuff. But what I love the most are my neighbors. My neighbors are incredible and many of them are longtime residents of that area and they have embraced those of us who are new to the community. We look out for each other. We stop and we talk to each other on the streets and we roll each other's trash cans in on Wednesdays after the garbage truck comes. Now, I attended the community meeting about this potential resoning to learn more about what Pete and Deborah were requesting. And I initially felt okay about it because it didn't sound like a strip club was going to go into that property. Um, so I felt okay about it, but I did express at that time my preference that it would remain residential. But recently when I returned home from vacation and saw the signs up for the public hearing, it really hit me then that no, no, I want that to remain residential because I want new neighbors, people who live there in the house and [clears throat] not just work there. And so I talked to my closest neighbors, the ones who live there on a full-time basis, and they are in agreement. we all want it to remain residential. And so while some people might say that it's inevitable that this area will become uh commercial or institutional, uh those of us who live there plan to stay there. In fact, I kind of hope I'm going to take my dying breath, not tomorrow or anything, but I hope I'll

take my dying breath in that house on Noi Street. And while I want the Hintons to be able to [clears throat] sell their house, what we really want, what our close full-time neighbors want is to have new residential neighbors. And so I simply ask that as you make your decision, you put yourselves in our shoes uh and ask yourself, if you were a resident, who would you want to be in that property? Would you want an owner who will live there and be part of this residential part of the neighborhood or would you want another business or institutional office who's going to turn out the lights and go home to some other place at night? So, I just want to thank you for your consideration. Um, and by the way, as I told the people uh at the community gathering when we were talking about the town hall where we got to see some of the schematics, I want to invite anybody to come over and sit on my back deck and enjoy the view. I'll give you a drink and uh you can come meet the neighbors. So, thank you. Um, and thank you for what you do. Oh my gosh, I cannot even believe the hours that y'all must put into gathering to all the stuff you have to do to be here to be informed and then to do this good work for our town. So, thank you. I appreciate it.

Thank you. All right, I'll take a motion to close the public hearing. So move.

Thank you, Commissioner. Second.

Second, Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor say I. I. Any other discussion? [clears throat]

Well, Miss Hamrik made a very compelling argument.

No, [laughter]

very compelling. And um I realize that I

feel remiss about uh not having reached out to some folks that I know in this neighborhood. Um and while staff also make a pretty compelling case, um I'd really like to consider other options besides the motion to adopt tonight. What do other people think?

I might jump in. Um, when I read through the packet, it said that there were no objections from the neighbors. Um, and one of the things that kind of stood out for me is um there's a sentence in there that nobody would want to live across from the town hall. Yeah. And yet, um, I am so grateful that the town hall's driveway was curved so that lights won't go into, uh, Julia Kennedy's home because there is somebody who lives there. But when I read this originally and and seeing from the public hearing that there were no objections from the neighbors, it was it was very easy to be, hey, this is great. It hasn't sold uh residential. Nobody has decided to move in there as as residential. But hearing hearing that it like you said it was very compelling. And now I

what was what was easy when I thought we had all the support of all the neighbors is now something that I I'm I'm it's given me pause.

Thank you. [clears throat] and and I have a lot of thoughts about it because I think um I I hope our town is evolving in a direction where we can have uh commercial uses, suitable commercial uses in proximity, close proximity to residential. Um I'd love to have a cafe in my neighborhood. Um I don't know that that's a viable business model in my neighborhood. I

don't know if that's a viable business for for this particular site, but I just use that as an example for uh the way that I hope we see a greater diversity of of uses in our our neighborhoods. Um so, sounds like there's at least three of us are reluctant to make the motion to adopt the ordinance tonight. Um, do other commissioners want to speak up? I'm going to speak up as a realtor. And the realtor says, the little realtor in my head says, this this property did not move. It was for sale for a long time. And uh, the town of Pittsburgh will be changing. This is a microcosm of just that effect. and the the angst that we as commissioners sometimes feel was just in this little presentation we had tonight. I just loved your presentation. But I also see a vision of Pittsburgh that generally has to move forward. that house that house didn't sell as a residential and I think it would be for the best benefit of Pittsburgh to to reassign it. So that's that's my opinion. I'll just say also, you know, Miss Mary made a very good point. I have some property on that and the Hintons have been there for 40ome years. Pete and his wife, they have had a hard time selling it. And uh thank you John for what you your comments and uh I I really I don't really see the O and I being a real issue in that neighborhood myself and I'm I'm my question is how does the

next door neighbor have a M1 zone? Man, I just that blew my mind when I read this

reading that.

What was it?

What's an M1 Sony? [clears throat]

That could have been back to when the old railroad

1870s. Yeah.

So,

any other comments? I'd like to make a motion to adopt the ordinance for conditional zoning case PB 25370 Hinton property.

Motion and a second. Any other discussion? [snorts]

Okay. All those in favor say I.

I.

I. Any opposed? Motion passes unanimously. Thank you. Up next, we have a public hearing on the unified development ordinance text amendment ZTA 202612, the downtown Overlay district. Pretty sure

grenade. [clears throat] Good evening, mayor and members of the board. Teresa Thompson, downtown development director. Um, for those who not may not know me as well in my current role, um, I've been fortunate to work with the town for six and a half years and wanted to give a little background of Yes, sir.

Uh, if we can get a motion to open the public hearing. So move.

Thank you, Commissioner Huner. Second. Mr. Henber. All those in favor say I.

I. I.

Just wanted to give a little background on what I've been up to lately over the

past year before going over the proposed text amendments. So, as the downtown director, I'm still housed within the development services department. Um, rather than primarily reviewing new development applications, my work is now focused more on preserving and strengthening our our existing downtown community while ensuring that new growth complements what already makes Pittsburgh Sparrow special. That includes supporting existing businesses, strengthening downtown's core, planning for the expansion of downtown's physical footprint, um, understanding how new development and re redevelopment will affect parking, traffic, connectivity, and the overall character and function of downtown Pittsburgh. Um, and this is as Pittsburgh continues to grow. Uh we're going to identify ways to mitigate potential negative impacts, advancing downtown economic vitality, and working collaboratively with businesses, property owners, residents, various town boards, and staff on short and long range downtown initiatives. So, another one of our goals is working with our three committees, design, promotions, and economic vitality uh along with the downtown advisory board um to become more involved early on in the process, especially with major projects in the town center and downtown support areas such as um conditional resonings. So, we have several board and commi committee members here tonight. um all of our amazing volunteers, if you don't mind raising your hands, the ones that were able to make it this long. Um some had to go home. Um but thank you all for coming and for your support. Uh wanted to add that Pittsburgh is currently an accredited North Carolina Main Street community. We began as an affiliated program in 2023. We became accredited our second year uh last year. year Pittsburgh was the highest scoring

accredited program in the whole state. So I think we've done a great deal of work to reach this point and this year is focused more on implementing many of the initiatives the downtown advisory board and committees have discussed for the past several years. Um, I also wanted to thank the board for recognizing the importance of this work and funding the additional staff person um, which hopefully will be on board soon and that's going to help us support downtown, give us greater capacity to help improve the priorities [clears throat] that are already in uh, motion. So, our program follows a national recognized Main Street 4-point approach, organization, promotion, design, and economic vitality. So everything we do falls within one of these four uh approaches as shown in our annual work plan which is approved by the downtown advisory board and the town board. So tonight's request, this text amendment request implements our first economic vitality project that's in our approved uh downtown annual work plan and that is reviewing the unified development ordinance standards related to downtown. So phase one of this project focused mostly on the downtown overlay district and this district district was created in 2018 and it basically just includes a list of prohibited uses within that boundary area. Um so when the UDO was created a couple years ago that language was just copied and pasted from the old zoning ordinance into the UDO. Um what we've been doing is as uh the downtown dream team and we have a few members here of the dream team as well. If you don't know there's two yes Shannon Plumber is the chair of the dream team. Um so they've been meeting for about a year now and of that about nine months have been focused on different projects but including the downtown overlay district.

The dream team's feedback went to the economic vitality committee and then to the downtown advisory board known as PDAD. We also coordinated with uh town staff and met with the town attorney before bringing the amendment to the planning board into you. So I just wanted to give a little background that tonight it's not just about one text amendment. Um, it's about putting the framework in place for a broader effort to modernize downtown's regulations and improve coordination. Um, some of the other projects the dream team's working on that will be coming to the board uh includes the evaluation of mixed use zoning incentives. Wanted to mention that especially with the resoning, the conditional resoning that went before you tonight that is located in the downtown support area. Some of the um research that is being done is to include character districts similar to what Apex has where it already uh identifies based on where the future land use plan designations are form based code elements and that includes everything from sidewalk widths which was included in the conversation tonight, street trees, outdoor seating, um basically looking at the individual properties within the town center and downtown support areas. is on not just as uh one by one CZs or conditional resonings, we're putting together a broader framework of these character districts that says, okay, if you're within this boundary, then we're going to be looking at um form based code that's going to help fit the character better for downtown um development in the future. So, um together these efforts will ensure that downtown is growing. Um and as we redevelop and expand the physical footprint, we're comprehensively planning for the character functions and experiences that we want to have

downtown. So, that's the why. Uh, and with the broader purpose in mind, I'll go through the specific amendments for tonight and we can go to the staff report, please. Any questions on that?

Okay.

Sorry, I'm trying to make it quick because I know you're tired, but

Okay, so the first amendment is to reference the correct boundary, uh, not the Pittsburgh program boundary. That's basically where if you want a facade grant, you would have to go you'd have to fall within the the main street program. So, we cross that out and um identified it at the downtown overlay district, which is specific to the prohibited use table. Number two is adding the map to the UDO. Um we don't foresee it expanding based on the down zoning law restrictions. So, this is just going to help clarify who's [clears throat] within the district, who's not. Um thirdly, we are clarifying game rooms in electronic gaming operations. Um so as I explained when this was worded in 2018, um game rooms did not have a definition. So the dream team along with the economic vitality committee and Pab all agreed that certain types of recreation and entertainment uses are appropriate downtown um such as arcades, billiards, darts, bowling alleys, similar uses. So removing that outdoor outdated game room reference uh resolves that contradiction while also making sure that electronic gaming operations and sweepsake businesses are still prohibited. So clarifying that. Um number four is uh looking at tattoo studios which was by far the most extensive discussed part or extensively discussed part of this project. Um for reference or background

in 2023 an individual applicant request requested permission to open a studio downtown. Um, at the time, TA staff was proposing a 300 foot separation between tattoo parlors, limiting it to just the second floor. The planning board at that time tabled their request, and the applicant did not return. So, tonight's proposal is different. Rather than responding to just one applicant, it was uh the result of more than nine months of research and community discussion and um as part of the adopted downtown work plan. So the conversation became became broader than simply asking whether we should have down tattoo parlors became what standards would best preserve downtown's historic character while supporting supporting entrepreneurship opportunities. So the dream team recognized that tattoo studios are increasingly considered small creative businesses often complementing art districts and downtown environments. um most downtown districts in North Carolina already allow them by right um including in the historic downtown areas. So at the same time there was also discussion through the process that uh there's a strong consensus that Pittsboro's historic core should also be uh protected from um new uses such as a tattoo parlor. So the different standards which I can go through in more detail if you would like are included for that purpose. Um I think the biggest intent was that we're limiting the uh tattoo parlors to the outer portions and protecting that historic core on Hillsboro Street. Can you speak more about that protection and what it what it's doing protecting us from? Hey

sir, um so as I said most downtowns already allow them by right in even

historic downtowns given that Pittsboro is a small and growing town. Um, the way that I've seen how new uses come to be in smaller towns is more of uh allowing them um in steps. So, if you go back about five years ago, we did not allow bars um or taverns downtown in downtown Pittsburgh. So, it went from not being permitted at all to then being a special use permit, which is quas judicial. um it's a lot that's involved in it to then I presented it to the town board um did a lot of research at the same you know just as tonight and explained that bars are allowed by right in lots of different downtowns and it was still um there was still some hesitation but going through that process it eventually went from being a special use permit to permitted by right use so kind of using that as an example to where we are today with tattoo parlors Um what I see a lot with small towns is you allow it in more of like incremental steps. So after you know having it allowed in certain parts of downtown as time goes by there could be additional text amendments made to potentially allow them permitted by right in other parts of downtown. That [clears throat] answers your question.

Okay. Any more questions on tattoo? What are

But but as it stands with this language, the Hillsboro Street section of downtown would not have uh t tattoo uh body art studios as an allowed use. Is that correct?

Correct.

You you labeled as a protected spot. Protected. Is that the word we're using?

Not in any official language.

Okay. All right.

It's just [clears throat] more presentation of explaining that there

was hesitation in having touchy parlors in the historic core.

I I do have to say I I don't particularly care for um subjecting them to separate rules um as far as their signage um and and so on. um the thousand feet between another one. I don't think we have um tons of two shops trying to open up in downtown. Um I just don't think that it's it's correct to have certain rules for some and certain rules for the other. Um I do uh I have no issue with um uh keeping them off of Hillsboro Street going basically from Hillsboro Street down Sanford, that main corridor. I'm good with that. But um I don't think we should hold them to different standards than any other business as far as the signage and um you know the uh 1,00 ft of another existing tattoo parlor.

So would you like to make a slight change to this?

I would do we do we need can I do that now or do we need to go that

finish the presentation?

I'm almost done. [clears throat] Um, number five is updating several definitions including electronic gaming operations, flea markets, pawn shops, and shooting galleries. Of course, they all remain prohibited uses, but we wanted to clarify what those uses are through the definitions. So, overall, the proposed revisions improves consistency, consistency, and clarity throughout the UDO. Um, we think it'll help make staff level decisions easier to interpret, provide clearer direction for the applicants and property. At its June 2nd meeting, the downtown advisory board unanimously recommended approval of all amendments. Um, the planning board also unanimously recommended approval of the amendments. [clears throat] Development service staff also recommends approval. So, um, if you have any additional questions, please let me know. Otherwise, we can

discuss.

One last one, and I know that we can't make any changes at this time to the um unapproved um uh uses in there. But I I would like to at some time in the future revisit the massage massage parlors, which is such an antiquated term for that. I would like to [clears throat] talk about allowing licensed massage and bodywork therapists to have businesses in there. I tell you from a small business, my business is chiropractic. I send somebody into Chapel Hill to Cardinal Massage at least once or twice a day and that could be business in Pittsboro. That would [clears throat] be in the future.

And this can be tied back into our work plan items and expanded on for sure. Thanks.

Make a motion.

Uh, any other questions or comments?

I have one just from clarification on the C2 on the Sanford Road. You and I spoke about that. Can you clarify to me again that this will be included in with the uh tattoo parlors or if it's if it's currently zone C2 on Sanford as the language is currently written in the staff report there could potentially be a um tattoo parlor on those properties.

Okay, you guys see where I'm pointing this right to me? That's right at

near the fire department.

Seven.

That blue block at the bottom.

Yes. Commissioner Frell, you're talking about near the fire department.

Yes, it actually would be the uh right near the ice cream plant there, I believe. Is that not correct?

Yeah.

That goes off [clears throat] too there.

However, if we keep that corridor buffer going down Sanford Road, then that excludes that.

Correct. Well, we'd have to change the

language to extend that corridor, though.

But um that would be the 200 foot. Okay.

Yes, sir.

Sorry.

Remove the additional conditions already in the staff report such as the signage requirements, visibility requirements, and replace that with a 200 foot buffer on Hillsboro and Sanford Road. That will

okay.

Take care of that issue.

That block is about 300 feet wide. So if it's if there's a 200 foot restriction, then it's not going to be able to be there anymore.

Yeah, I just clarify that. Thank you,

sir.

No one has signed up for the public hearing. So I'll take a motion to close the public hearing.

Salute.

Thank you, Commissioner Huner. Second.

Second. Third.

All those in favor say I. I. I. So, I will let me get the correct language here. Um, make a motion to adopt the ordinance amending the town of Pittsburgh Unified Development Ordinance ZTA 2026-12 with um the changes of removing um uh keep number one, remove 2, three, four, and five from the tattoo uh restrictions. um which is basically remove existing use restrictions on tattoo and body art establishments while maintaining a 200 foot distance between other similar establishments and 200 foot buffer restriction along Hillsboro Street and down Sanford Road quarters.

You can clarify rightaway line the rightway line sorry

I'm sorry

the rideaway lines from Hillsboro Street and Sanford. Okay, as a measuring distance. All right. in the rightway lines from Hillsboro Street down to Sanford.

Makes sense.

I'll second that motion.

Okay, there's a motion in a second. Any

discussion?

I just one discussion. Uh and this is directed toward the back of the room where the volunteers that have been doing the the work as as a as a whole. We have heard from the EDC of Chattam County and then we we talked a little bit about the chamber and then we went into NCID and uh scale Chattam and uh I want the public to understand that we as a board are outwardly facing proactive when it comes to business and I I recognize that I and I honor my fellow commissioners and especially the staff and their efforts so far.

So there's a great big huge spectrum that we cover tonight [clears throat] and I want everybody to acknowledge that. So here, good work. Well said. Well said. And and and I'll emphasize it's not just about big business, but also small businesses and creative businesses. [clears throat]

Any other questions or comments?

All right. All those in favor say I.

I. Any opposed?

All right. Thank you.

And and huge thanks to staff for all the work on this and to the many volunteers and the many many many hours that went into this effort. Thank you.

Thank you. Up next, we have a request for economic development strategic planning and coordination. Um well, tonight town manager Jonathan Franklin and I are um presenting three coordinated economic development initiatives that will help Pittsburgh plan intentionally for growth and investment. The first is the economic development strategic plan. Um the town's first comprehensive downtown master plan with a parking study update and a potential partnership with NC IDEA

through scale Chattam. Um, each initiative has a distinctive purpose. Together, they give the town an opportunity to strengthen an overall economy. Position downtown to prosper as Pittsburgh grows and build a stronger environment for entrepreneurs and small businesses. Um, so the first item is the economic development strategic plan, which will establish a townwide framework for at least the next five years. It will identify priorities and strategies to support Pittsburgh's economic growth, competitive competitiveness, and long-term prosperity. The planning process will combine economic and demographic research and stakeholder input and will address business recruitment, retention, and expansion. They're looking to put the memo up so you can read along. Um, small business and entrepreneurship, target industries and employment opportunities, workforce and talent development, development opportunities, and organizational capacity and partnerships. Uh the town has executed an an engagement agreement with the Creative Economic Development Consulting and that agreement and scope of work are attached to the memo in the packet. Number two is the downtown master plan and parking study update. Um, for the past three years, the downtown advisory board has identified updating downtown Pittsburgh's long range vision as one of its highest priorities. That objective has appeared [clears throat] in every annual work plan we've had. Um, starting with fiscal year 2024, continuing to this fiscal year. As the pl as the work has progressed, it's become clear that downtown needs a comprehensive plan that brings the many pieces affecting its future into one coordinated document.

The master plan will address previous planning efforts, community input, adopted town plans, land use and redevelopment, parking and mobility, streetscape and connectivity, public spaces, infrastructure, historic preservation, arts, culture and tourism, housing, economic development and implementation and funding. Uh the result will be a clear vision and implementation framework for at least the next 10 years. It will establish near and long-term priorities, responsibil responsible parties, potential funding sources, and performance measures. Um, so to clarify, this plan, neither plan are intended to be plans that just sit on a shelf. The downtown master plan will become um a roadmap for our annual downtown work plan in addition to the economic development strategic plan. So every year when we prioritize prioritize major projects uh to focus [clears throat] our resources on each project for the um fiscal year, we'll have this guiding document for the major projects for the next 10 years. So rather than starting from scratch each year, um we'll have a coordinated long-term uh strategy that will help guide our work. Um, again, I also wanted to thank the board for considering this budget amendment um to the this current fiscal year and having a consultant lead this effort. That'll allow me more time to focus on additional projects in the work plan, not so heavy on having to handle uh drafting this plan inhouse. Um, which probably would have taken over a year once we could actually start. and this is going to bring it down to a six-month process. So, thank you again for that recommend uh consideration. Um both plans are expected to occur concurrently

and um there there will be a lot of different overlap and coordination between the two. Um the master plan is will uh translate relevant e economic goals into recommendations and the strongest overlap is going to be the market analysis, business and property owner engagement, small business support, business recruitment and retention, redevelopment opportunities, um tourism and public investment. So the two plans can uh occur uh to help coordinate community and business surveys, share economic and market research and use the same stakeholder findings where appropriate. The third item is scale chhattam and NCA. So um this is a potential partnership which you saw the uh presentation earlier tonight. It's focused on strengthening the entrepreneurial ecosystem in Pittsburgh sil sil city and chattam county [clears throat] as a whole. NC has already oh you can go to the next page. NC has already invested approximately $200,000 in Pittsboro based pilot programming. The proposed next phase would build upon that work through expanded entrepreneurial support, accelerator programming, regional coordination, and technology- based economic development initiatives. So, our goal is a countywide collaborative approach. It connects resources, expands opportunities, and creates a stronger environment for entrepreneurs and smaller businesses to start, grow, grow, and succeed. So staff mainly um town manager Jonathan has begun meeting with the local economic development partners including CCCCC small business center and web squared. These conversations are helping us understand existing programs so that our efforts can complement and

build upon what's already underway and these initial discussions have been positive and support a coordinated approach towards all these shared goals. So, are there any questions on the three um economic development strategic plans? I know everybody's getting tired. Sorry.

Any questions for Teresa?

I I have I have one question for you. Um this is this is great work and we we need it. Uh, I'd like to be in the loop. I'd like to be in in some of the meetings and making sure that uh, you know, this to me is policy. I want to understand where we're headed with it. Making sure that the commissioners understand that [clears throat] this can be monitored successfully and and graded because we're we're spending money on this. We need to know it's productive. So, uh, I want to be as a member of the EDC, Chad, uh, Chadam County. I'd like to be a part of this economic tribe as well. So, I'd like to copy of of the meetings dates and time. So, I I can't attend, but

sir,

for for both again for both the master plan and the economic development, please. Yeah. Because one the first step [clears throat] in this and I was hoping we could schedule it for the special meeting that we may call in two weeks to discuss some of these other items is that we go ahead and have our kickoff for the strategic plan where our consultant can uh start diving in with you all to figure out what your vision is for.

We can we can tie it in with the chamber.

This will just just be y'all.

Okay.

We the consultant and you all and that conversation.

There will be input throughout the process, but we'll kick off.

There's two motions um with this request. The first one is to motion um authorize staff to develop uh proposed steering committees to then bring to you in October for both plans. [clears throat] Um and uh the downtown advisory board has already looked at um potential uh committee members for the downtown master plan. Um and the second is to authorize the town manager to execute agreements to facilitate scale chatt. I'll make the motion to authorize staff to develop proposed steering committee for the economic development strategic plan and the downtown master plan for consideration by the board of commissioners at its October meeting.

Thank you.

Is there a second?

A second.

Thank you, Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor?

Hang on. I I have question.

Discussion. Yeah.

Yeah. [clears throat] Discussion. Thanks. Uh, so the motion to authorize and develop a steering committee. What are the what are your goals? What are your priorities when you're trying to select somebody? What's our intention there? What is it that

for the strategic plan? It's looking at the different, you know, industry experts um within Chattam County. uh someone that has some ties to the EDC obviously, someone with downtown. Um we've got someone from medical, someone from uh the community college. So it's it's kind of picking individuals that know the county. Have

you already selected them or

I've got a draft list? Yes, sir.

Yeah. Love to see.

That's it.

Any other discussion?

All those in favor say I.

I. I a

and I'll take a motion to authorize the town manager to execute agreements to facilitate scale chatam in partnership

with NCA and surrounding communities.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets.

Second, Commissioner Huner. All those any discussion? [laughter]

All those in favor say I.

I.

Any opposed? All right. And now we have a budget amendment for those things. So, I'll take a motion to adopt the budget ordinance amending the fiscal year 2627 budget to allocate funds to execute a downtown master plan and parking study.

So, move.

Thank you, Commissioner Thurber. Second.

Second,

Commissioner Ferrell. All those in favor say I.

I. Any opposed?

All right. Now, we are to the downtown work plan update

for the downtown volunteers is the last item. Okay,

we can go downtown to all the bis celebrate.

Yes. [laughter]

I just need the popup park at this point.

Yeah,

Bob.

All right.

Okay. Um, so tonight I'm asking you to approve an update to the downtown annual work plan that adds three projects recommended unanimously by the downtown advisory board, also known as Pab. Um, these projects grew from PETAD's first annual strategic board retreat, um, which happened on June 23rd. Several of you were able to make it. So, um, where [clears throat] parking, mobility, and access were identified as immediate priorities for focus attention. Um, Pab then uni recommended the work plan update by 9 to zero vote on July the 7th. The requested action establishes a framework for PDAB and staff to organize the work, evaluate options, coordinate with the upcoming downtown master plan and parking study. Yay.

Thank you. And bring informed recommendations back to the town board. Uh so first um out of the three is

parking. Um [snorts] the 2024 or November 2024 downtown parking study identified structured parking opportunities for further evaluation. per the parking study, if downtown continues to grow and thrive, additional public parking will likely be needed. Potential locations should be identified and preserved before limiting downtown land or before limited downtown land is committed to other uses. The downtown advisory board has been discussing parking parking needs for several years. The 2022 um advisory board survey uh identified public parking and wayfinding signage among the features downtown needs more of. Um, our community vision forum in November of 2022, which uh attended by approximately 100 people, uh, free parking was identified as a strength, while parking, parking visibility, directional signage, sidewalks, traffic, and walkability repeatedly appeared among downtown's weaknesses. In our 2023 community survey with with 353 responses from the community, residents asked for easily accessible parking, more parking, a parking structure, wider and improved sidewalks, rerouting of large trucks, greater walkability, and more retail and shopping opportunities. So, those are community input um processes we've gone through over the past several years. Um, the 2024 parking study counted approximately 1,345 spaces at the time and applying industry standards to existing downtown uses, the parking study indicated an estimated need of 1,926 spaces to 2,00 57 spaces. So, obviously what we have is

is a bit less than that. So the parking study found that current supply uh generally generally meets our needs today. Um the reason is because parking demand um for downtown uses peak during different times. So approximately 200,000 square feet of government office space creates weekday demand that drops during evenings and weekends. um that's when restaurants, events, and entertainment may be their its busiest. So much of that is county government, well, all of it is county government activity. Those offices are expected to relocate in the next 5 to 10 years. Um so that being said, the parking study is saying that as of right now, parking spaces are being used at different times of the day and different days of the week. So, as government office patterns change and downtown hopefully continues to add more retail, restaurants, housing, more events, and tourism, the timing and volume of parking demand is expected to change as well. The study recommends monitoring the system, identifying new opportunities, and considering locations for future structures before major redevelopment occurs downtown. So looking at the the bullet list um parking, public parking is essential. It is a land use but in a traditional downtown it is more than just a use. Um it's that you would just typically see on like a site plan. It functions as essentially shared infrastructure supporting the district as a whole. Same as you would see like public water and sewer. Historic downtown buildings generally sit at or near the property line, basically zero zero lot lines and physically cannot provide the suburban style parking that you would see on individual lots um that could have individual parking lots.

So downtown also serves as a broader role than just a commercial shopping center. It's the center for business, civic life, events, culture, tourism, and community activity for the whole town. The shared infrastructure supports business survival, private investment, [clears throat] civic activity, tourism, and the town's ability to compete with newer commercial centers that are currently being built and plan to be built in and around town. And these planned unit developments have parking which is already being planned and incorporated in with those developments whereas the historic downtown does not have that option. Um, second bullet is downtown land is finite. So once a centrallylo property is sold, redeveloped or committed to another use, it may no longer be available for public parking or any other downtownwide need. Per the parking study, clearly identified accessible parking within a threeminute walk helps downtown compete for customers with these new commercial centers. The parking study used a 1 to three minute walking distance because that's the practical area for serving shops, restaurants, and civic destinations. Within that distance, downtown only has a few realistic options. So, basically, the parking study is saying you have to have accessible parking within about a three-minute walk um for things such as retail, restaurants, otherwise customers are just going to go elsewhere where they are going to be able to find parking um easily. So the the few options that the parking study identifies, one is the town municipal lot on West Salsbury Street. The parking study describes this property as the ideal location and size for structured parking. It inventories currently 55 standard spaces and four accessible spaces. um so right at uh 60 spaces and estimates that a multi-level structure could accommodate approximately 500 to

700 vehicles depending on design. So of course this has not been designed that was just an estimate. The second location identified is the alleyway behind the Hillsboro Street businesses connecting West Street and um Salsbury Street. So, if you think of like the alleyway back there, some of those properties could uh theoretically be combined and uh create a parking structure. The third is the county annex area uh just southeast of the historic uh courthouse and traffic circle. The parking study calls this an ideal location for a public private structured parking facility serving both redevelopment and future downtown demand. The broader county administrative area currently contains more than 300 public parking spaces. The municipal lot and the county annex lots together account for 283 public spaces within the study's 1 to three minute analysis. So that concentration is one of the reasons these properties matter so much to downtown's future. Um, two additional sites identified by the study, those uh, two lots owned by the county for tax and water payments close to Rectory Street. Those are physically large enough to hold a parking structure but not close enough to the activity um, to have a meaningful impact for parking. And then lastly, are several lots of three lots located on the corner of Fateville Street and West Street. Um, those were identified in 2024. They have since been sold. So that doesn't ne mean that we know what their future is, but they're no longer at least a public option for the town to potentially be able to utilize for parking. So um you know, as these sites change, as properties are sold, our choice choices narrow more and more. Um parking supports economic growth. Planning for future public parking capac capacity supports downtown's continued

economic success success. As downtown attracts more restaurants, retail entertainment, cultural destinations, and events, visitation, and parking demands are expected to grow. Um, for those that live in Pittsburgh and you're aware of where the private parking lots are, side street parking, um, that seems to suffice. If you're a newer visitor, you don't even know where any of the public parking is, let alone side streets or or private parking lots and which ones you're allowed to be in and not. Um, so if customers um, in particular new visitors to downtown perceive downtown as difficult or uncertain, they have other choices to shop elsewhere in town. If investors believe Pittsburgh lacks this critical infrastructure, business and developers considering meaningful investments downtown may scale back or choose other locations. So protecting public parking capacity is therefore part of protecting the downtown's economic future. Um, the board of commissioners approved a resolution when you established PETAB and that called for early opportunities for PETAB to review and provide input on plans, projects, and decisions affecting downtown before um the board of commissioners makes decisions that would impact the downtown and support areas. So adding this project to the work plan now provides that uh responsibility for VAB to uh put this into practice. So as the town begins the downtown master plan, the parking study update, the Hillsboro street streetscape um construction and and discussions about public properties redevelopment. And let's see. Oh, I did want to mention there's a few other downtowns in the area for comparisons. Um, looking at Carro, for example, Carro uh directs visitors to 11 public

parking lots, including two parking decks. Chapel Hill lists nine public parking lots, including three parking decks. Hillsboro has two surface parking lots and one parking deck. Um we w we recently visited downtown Apex and um saw that they expanded their Saunders public lot public parking lot from 240 spaces to approxim approximately 393 spaces before their Salem Street street streetscape project. And so what they did with their Salem Street street street skate project was they removed 20 on street spaces um to that parking lot and retained 10 of their parallel spaces in like key locations. So, um, wanted to bring that back to what PDAB's discussions have been over past several years in that, um, there could be a possibility in the future to, uh, relocate many of those angled parking spaces on Hillsboro Street. Um, decrease the number there so that you could have wider sidewalks similar to Apex. Um, where Apex's sidewalks are going to be around 15 to 20 feet wide. and uh also having the opportunity to expand parking downtown. Um so that one day you could have wider sidewalks and retain several different of the parallel parking. So you know going maybe from 65 spaces to 25 spaces. Um in the parking study they give different examples of how you can have funding opportunities. So for Concord was one of the examples and its downtown master plan coordinated the city the county and private redevelopment interests around structured parking. So you know Pittsburgh can use these public private approaches um in our research and uh looking at potential finance

opportunities and uh operating facility for a defined period.

Yes sir. So, I appreciate all the research into this. The request tonight is to add these three items to the work plan for PTAB to go back and and work on.

Yes, sir.

Correct.

Thank you.

Any questions on public parking?

Do we have any uh inquiries about grants for grant assistance for parking? Is there such a [snorts] thing?

That will be part of the evaluation. We'll come back to you with that information. [laughter]

Like free money. That's be interesting. Never heard of it before, but

and as [clears throat] far as the streetscape goes, um, [laughter]

if we're if we're making the sidewalk smaller during the streetscape,

I mean, at what point will we be able to make them larger?

Are we making them smaller?

Where? So, where the steps are in front of like the Veno locations, they are getting smaller, more narrow there. And then I think the on the north side or excuse me the east side uh approximately where Veries is all the way down they're adding steps. So it is becoming more narrow there. And I want to say in another location they're adding they're having to add more steps because basically the existing steps don't meet requirements and so they have to be a lot bigger and longer than they currently are. So there are several locations where it is going to be more narrow. Chris, what is the date on the start of the streets street streetscape?

Tentatively, we're looking at May of 2027, but we also ask that um in the in the conditions for the contractor that they cannot do any construction between October 1st and January 1st. So that means they need to start in time to have one site finish October 1st [clears throat] and they've had some delays. So

realistically, if it keeps getting pushed back, uh there might not even be a start date until January of 2028 because we don't want them to not to run out of time basically construction zone during our peak.

What's the economic impact for the streetscape? Can we predict that?

Yeah, loss [clears throat] of business. Yeah,

it it will be

significant,

difficult. Yes. And uh is that something the board should be considering?

Well, the the work that has to be done on the streetscape, but like the underground work um that's infrastructure improvements [clears throat] that

Oh, I I understand. But compensation or ways we can mitigate some of the loss.

The town board did approve a line item to address how we can assist businesses more [clears throat] $5,000. And so we have our downtown streetscape team or street excuse me downtown streetscape stars is the team and uh part of that team was able to go to Apex with us and um that's part of what we're going to be working with them on.

Do you know if any of this construction will be done at night? We are working with um the original conversation was a lot of it was supposed to be done at night and now we're continuing conversations on trying to make sure as much as possible could be done at night. So we the original conversations we had was over the past two years to about seven eight months ago. And now that we're trying to make sure everything kind of is staying on track with the timeline, um, we'll be able to shore up a lot more of the details and we get a better idea of what the the timeline's going to be. [clears throat] Um, so moving on to mobility.

If are there any other questions about the three items that Teresa is trying to add to organization under the work plan?

I think he's trying to rush me.

Any questions for Teresa?

These are pretty good options. So, yeah. So yeah, mobility, which is the heavy truck traffic downtown, and uh installing the wavefinding signage for public parking, which is it's on the work plan already, but specifically getting this done before the streetscape construction starts because that's only going to be even more pressing. That's probably the most pressing out of all three of these. All right. Any questions or comments?

Take a motion to approve the update to the downtown annual work plan to add the parking mobility and access projects as recommended by the Pittsburgh downtown advisory board.

Moved. Thank you, Commissioner Bonds.

Second.

Second. Commissioner Huner. All those in favor say I.

I. We're listening to you. We love you guys. [clears throat]

All right. Up next, parks and recreck advisory board resolution. Miss Keller, I'll sleep sleep well. [laughter] We got an hour left. Night all.

This is back in front again. We've made a couple of updates and just moved some things around. Um, we worked on the wording to put a little twist on it to make it a little bit lighter. So, let me know if you have any questions. We had the sort of 30-day comment period.

Did we get any comments?

We have one

one comment. We addressed it.

Yes. comment was looks good,

right?

Or looks great. There were other comments prior. Um, yep.

But the just the one comment I thought

Yeah. Thank you.

So, the parent policy is greatly improved and um it's got much better tone and the feeling conveyed when one reads this language is is much better. Really a great improvement. And it's very clear that efforts were made to address concerns of the board and other readers and I'm very grateful for those efforts. There are three things missing. Uh and I would suggest the following amendments. Um they have to do with uh the planning board and budget and staff roles. So, uh, I'll go ahead and read those off. Number one, I think that, uh, the language should be changed to add somewhere. Uh, Commissioner Hunicker suggested section five, subsection D. PERB shall advise the planning board on matters pertaining to recreational planning, including parks, greenways, trails, open space, recreation facilities, development related recreational impacts.

Where what section are you in? Uh the suggestion was to put it in section 5D. I I it's less important to me where it goes than that we recover this piece that is in our current ordinance which is that the parks and advisory board does work with the planning board directly that that the um parab shall advise the planning board on matters

pertaining to parks and recck planning. Is that in writing or you're recommending?

It's in the ordinance.

Excuse me.

It's in the ordinance today.

So, it's current. It's been in the ordinance, [cough] but

yeah, since 2003.

Yeah. Okay. But I guess my question is, is that how is that done? Is it in writing or is it in meetings, extra meetings or how are they advising? Well, I mean, I think in general advisory boards are to the meant to advise the board of commissioners and so we have multiple I understand how it's written in the ordinance now, but I mean we have multiple advisory boards that advise the board of commissioners and from a timeline perspective a lot of times those come together at the board of commissioners. Um, so I think it's a unique step if we were to have an advisory board advise an advisory board.

It's in our ordinance and it's been in our ordinance since 2003. And

what's the advantage of the being in

I think we're going to be growing very very rapidly as a town. Our planning board is working extra extra hard. Our parks and wreck advisory board needs to also be working very very hard uh because staff are working super hard on a lot of new park acquisitions. We're growing our parks faster than ever in our

I understand that part. But what is the advantage of them talking? I mean won't staff receive what the recommendations and then bring it to the planning board already and say does this make sense to you guys? Is that is that

I I think there's I think there's there's something different to be gained with having the advisory boards communicate directly.

Would that come through Katie?

If if it needs to come through planning

board would be presenting anyway, right?

But I think it needs to be explicit.

It's been and it needs to be. Paul, can you comment on advisory board advising an advisory board or I mean it's currently in our ordinance I believe but commissioner Bon's suggestion I think you're out of the room was that the par advises the planning board directly [clears throat]

why if if that's what you all want to allow them to do but ordinarily the advisory board's advisor you.

I think the question is how how would they advise the planning board because I would I would think that the PAR would tell you in your discussions and then Katie would bring it to the planning board when something's being presented. But how would that's your question, right? How are they going to do that? That

how's that always? It's never been it's might be in the or excuse me might [clears throat] be in the ordinance but I don't think that's how we're operating right now.

I'm not the part right now. I don't believe

advises us planning department advises us. So maybe we need to change unless there is something special that I'm I'm missing. Uh you said it was been 2003. Has there been communications between advisory boards? Does the planning board talk to

in the past? Indeed. Yes. In the past. That's what I was informed when I interviewed probably nine different people, prior pair of members,

members, and they they were talking to planning board members.

Yeah. Now, granted, we were much smaller town. we had uh smaller staff or at

times didn't have any parks and rec staff. But uh I think that that uh the fact that we're going to be growing so very rapidly, I'd like the two advisory boards to be communicating. I think it just makes sense.

The job of an advisory board is not to advise advisory board. Their responsibility is to advise us. So why are we complicating this?

It's not complicating. It's reserve

reserving the existing ordinance.

It makes absolutely no sense to me. So explain it to me. So that and what two advisory boards are we speaking of now? I thought we was on parks and recck advisory board.

Yeah. And now now uh the recommendation is that the planning parks and recck advises the planning planning board

and I don't know that's ever happened in my tenure

could be a coordination timeline issue because then

explain that. Well, because if you have you would then have to make sure that a parab board meeting was set up before the planning board meeting so that way then they could provide some type of input. I think typically that's being done with Katie now that if like Robinson Creek when they were offering the 75

would you work through the staff with that though? Is that what you're saying that the staff is too overworked so that they don't provide that here's the planning here's the parks and wreck here's planning board they're doing their their things. Mhm.

And I know there's probably some overlap, right? But that's where the staff comes in and says, um, here's a tweak.

So staff shrank the number of PAR meetings last year. Um, and recently,

two years ago maybe. Okay.

[clears throat] Um and I think there are times when um the advisory boards need to be in communication

formally structurally

structurally the chairs of those two boards.

So describe it how does it work? Do you do you instruct the the the chair of the advisory board A to report to the chair of the advisory board B on a monthly basis?

So or is it informal or is it in writing? Do they have their own joint meetings?

I am I am reluctant to prescriptive. Um, but my concern is that I think there have been times in the past when uh matters before actually they weren't even brought to the parks and recck advisory board. Um, and that's part of the problem.

You say they who

matters pertaining to parks and wreck

that were originated in the planning board or wherever

certainly had overlap with planning board. Yes. Okay. So, I'm I'm trying to be helpful and pragmatic. I really want to work through this because I honor your opinions. Um I'm I'm just not seeing it. Uh I would think the structure should be each advisory board by definition reports to us. And if we as if we as commissioners have need clarification, we can go to the advisory board for the parks department or or the planning department. I I think that's that's that's on us and not them communicating because they don't have any guidance. They they they they go out. They don't go crosscuts in my opinion,

respectfully. I think too a [clears throat] lot of this effort that we've been putting on business resolution is that what was put in the the ordinance in 2003 doesn't fit how the town works in 2026. And so it's not it's not meant to just translate it.

Well, I forgive me. I'm going to interrupt you. You've said this before. You've you've tried to convince me of this before. My concern is that the parks and recck advisory board I have been hearing for years is not working well. And there is an attempt to change the policy and I don't think the problem is in the policy.

Okay. Well, I don't know what I was going to continue saying before you interrupted me. So

maybe the board should remove problem of board members and remove the members.

I don't think the problem is the members of the board.

I think that's a discussion we can have.

Yeah. Thank you. Exactly.

Not here. But I don't think that's a

that's not a discussion we can talk about here. That's a p You're implying a personality issue. Correct.

Number two, um staff shall provide PARB an annual opportunity to review parks and rec budget priorities before the manager's recommended budget is finalized. I think that one's really important. You just skip over the first one. You just

Well, we've discussed it.

Why have did this not get sent?

It's been put in writing, Commissioner. It's been in writing repeatedly.

Our manager said we got one response back.

It's been put in writing repeatedly.

I I disagree. We didn't. We specifically specifically made an action as a board at the last meeting to or two meetings ago to have 30 days to send comments.

Did you send comments?

I regret that I didn't repeat it during that 30-day period, but twice before I had sent it in

on the on the budget piece. Um, Mr. Bon spoke earlier today. we'd be happy to add uh another date to our budget kind of calendar and that first date prior to your scoping meeting would be an advisory board scoping meeting. So then each each staff member that's working with an advisory board would have that same type of budget scoping meeting with the the advisory boards. And that way then you're hearing directly from the advisor board what what they're looking for u budgetwise. Nice solution. Would [clears throat] that language suffice?

It didn't budget our staff's issues our main job.

I think it's I mean I think it's important to hear from the advisory boards like hey what what are you thinking?

Yes.

Yeah. So this is just another

bottom line is the budget budget for our staff. this responsibility is the bottom line. It's staff's responsibility.

This is an advisory board.

At the end of the day, it's my responsibility,

right?

I delegate mostly to

president. The [clears throat] other boards have advised have had input, right?

Yes. I think in previous years they have uh I think this past year I told all the department heads there was no extra money. We're doing the baseline budget just so we know what that baseline budget is. And I think in a couple areas that that that was skipped.

I'd like to make a motion to adopt the ARB resolution as is. Have a motion. Is there a second? [clears throat and cough]

We have a motion. Is there a second?

I'll second.

We have a motion and a second. Motion by Commissioner Frell. Second by Commissioner Foley. discussion.

Yeah, this early discussion was interrupted. So,

he did say that there were three things that he wanted to bring up. He mentioned two. I think we should hear out the third one before try to That's all.

All stepping on your toes. So, what's the third one? So throughout all the different drafts of this policy, we're asking a lot of parks and recck advisory board members. Uh those requests and requirements and restrictions have been softened tremendously. However, there is still a lot being asked of volunteers and these are volunteers. No compensation. I think that it's important that there be some something in this document that indicates what staff's duties and roles are. And perhaps that is a section suggesting timely agendas and materials, referral of relevant planning matters, transmission of PARB recommendations to this board and when there's disagreement staff recommendations where they are not following uh the PARB uh decision

recommendations recommendations. Oh, additionally, support for public engagement. I think that's that's one thing that I've been hearing a lot and um I think it's really important that uh our parks and recck advisory board be engaged with the public.

So, that's been deleted. That's in our current ordinance. Well, when you say required or encouraged participation because this is a

volunteer thing. So,

I'm not saying required. I think

encouraged

be encouraged and facilitated, not discouraged.

So, you want to add that?

Well, I think I think as a board we have to be very careful about directing staff.

Mr. managerial responsibility and you deal with a manager separate from dealing with advisory boards. Um

I can just interject at the last meeting um

I believe that there Krie and Katie you can correct me if I'm wrong

um the volunteers were kind of assigned parks asked to go out and do more interaction with community to and and please I think but were instructed to have more community engagement and I think that was a really good uh really good step and and I remember that um they all seemed very excited, got up and put their names on the boards that they wanted to do. So, I think we have a board that wants to engage whether it's it's um uh mandate or whatever, [clears throat] but I I do want to just mention that that seems like that base in in your third point has been embraced and covered in the in in par.

It's good to hear.

So,

Jonathan, you were there so that

the I mean, I agree. I think they can just do it and be excited about it. But the policy does say community ambassadors, individual members, and the board as a whole are encouraged to serve as ambassadors for Pittsburgh Parks and Recreation.

Ambassador is I think the definition clearly states.

Is there any other discussion? Any questions?

[clears throat]

Well, there's a motion that was made and [clears throat] seconded unless you're withdrawing your second. So, I would uh encourage commissioners to vote down that motion and then we'll consider these other amendments.

Okay. All those in favor say I. Hi.

So, I'm voting to shoot down those recommendation.

You're voting for Jay's amendment.

I'm going to vote no to the uh movement, but I want those uh amendments in added. So, no, I'm I'm a nay.

All right, let's go around the table. All those in favor of the Paris resolution as it is, say I.

I. Your vote. Sorry.

N

Okay. Thank you.

Yeah. Can we make the motion to

We're just saying comments back in again.

I thought we were going to make a motion to approve it with the amendments. Can we do that?

Anybody can

I'd like to make a motion to approve the pair of resolution with the amendments.

A second.

All right. So, there's a motion and a second.

Do we know exactly what we we're amending?

I don't think so. And I think that we would have to go back for legal advice to put in something about staff. Um, I don't know what we do at this point. We've had this so many times we've

I don't know. I I don't know how to get to the point that we we can fast this, but maybe Commissioner Bonds, if you sit with Mr. Messi and write out your suggestions.

My suggestions are written out right now. I'll email them immediately. And they're reiterations of what I've written before.

I don't believe the clerk has those amendments.

Yeah. The the other point too is if some of this isn't crystal clear and then there's an attempt to put language in here directing staff to do things, that's a problem.

Then it's going to be six or seven people's interpretation of what that means.

Can you give me an example?

Sure.

Yeah.

Arab shall advise planning board. Okay. What what does that mean? How does that function? Then all of a sudden there's a potential personnel discussion about that,

right? Or then the board would be potentially aiming at a personnel decision about someone that I a staff member that I'm supposed to supervise. I I don't know how that works. And I would say adamantly that [clears throat] you should not be putting something directing staff to do anything in a resolution that is really directed at PAR. That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I get I get some of your frustrations, but we are working very hard to try to do better in with respect to how we approach these advisory boards. And quite frankly, we're doing a great job at almost everything that we're doing. And it just seems constant

with this one

with a lot of different things

planning with the parks and wreck

and I mean even the last pair of meeting you hadn't all the pair of members that were there were enthusiastic about Robson Creek Park and that didn't seem to matter. So I'm just I'm getting a little confused on what staff are supposed to be doing these days. [snorts] Can I withdraw my mot to zero vote?

And can I withdraw my motion and then make a motion to approve the PAR resolution with the amendment that how

was it phrased for budget um for uh PARB to um

budget scoping

do budget scoping

prior to

prior to the uh budget meeting. If I can make a suggestion about that, I

and then we just

I I understand what you're trying to do and I agree with that concept. I think we should make that policy change for advisory boards in general as a whole. Um so if we're going to do it for one, I think we should do it for others. So we can either do it include it tonight and then go clean up the others later or we can like bring that policy back after some some staff review. It might be better to have it as a part of the budget policy, not the parent policy.

Yeah, that's my suggestion. Like I don't I agree with that concept. I think it could be valuable, but I think it would be more better broadly applied to the advisory committees than to this that just what Mess said enshrined in this resolution specifically.

We've also got an advisory board policy that's in draft as well that should be coming to you hopefully October, November. So we can add that to it if that's something that

So we can take care of these amendments in the advisory policy that goes for all boards

at least the budget one. Yes.

But I still have the issue putting language directing staff could lead to some type of

That's going to be trouble. I agree. [clears throat]

Should Commissioner Foley make his motion again? Do you want to

resend my motion? No.

Remake. We voted that got voted down, but you could remake the same motion and then we could revote.

No, I'm not making a motion. I'm sorry. I don't agree with any of it.

No, it's it's your motion. We're just

motion you made to

make a motion to uh

Yeah. Well, this is great.

Let me say so

uh I'd take a motion to adopt the pair of resolutions.

So moved.

Thank you Foley. Second M. [clears throat]

Uh any other discussion? All right, let's go around the table again.

Mr. Ferrell,

this is

yay.

Yay.

Nay. All right. Motion passes. Thank you. Um, up next we have appointment to PAR. There are submitted applications. We could do them one at a time or three at a time. because your pair just went from seven to nine. You got some extra people to pick.

What happened

when you passed the pair resolution just now? Your pair board went from seven to nine members.

So that's the two. [clears throat] So now there's three appointments available.

I can cut the grass.

And three members may reside in the all three.

And three may reside in the ETJ.

Three of them.

So you have six in town, three in ETJ. May, but

but may they don't have to.

They don't have to, but they can. Yeah, that was to give y'all more flexibility on applications.

So, um I'd like to make a motion to um appoint David Allen and Asia Woody and Philip Daniels to the Parks and Rec Advisory Board for terms ending June 30th, 2028. A second.

Okay. Motion and second. One question. Are the should the new ones be staggered?

So there's an open position that expired June 30th, but

think you'd be okay because you just created two more positions.

It is all ahead.

Yeah, you'd be okay.

Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

You repeat those names. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Um Dave Allen and Anastasia Woody and Philip Daniels. Um

Philip Daniels in the is in the ETJ.

He's in the ETJ. Um [clears throat]

David Allen

Anastasia Woody.

Those are two in town applicants. like to nominate Chad Morgan.

We've got a motion table

for the discussion part. I um I did speak with Katie earlier today about utilizing Paul Cuadros and Chad Morgan and Travis Scott and uh a few other people who she volunteered as a um I don't think we could come up with the name. to be a committee or

panel um for athletic fields because of Chad Morgan and Paul Quadrroses and Travis Scott's um soccer um uh experience um especially with the fields that we are um putting forth. Is that one of your names?

Chad couldn't hear.

Yeah. Chad more.

Yeah. Yeah.

Chad Travis Scott and Paul Cuadros on a athletic advisory.

That's what you're looking for anyway, right?

Um

Phil committee [clears throat] there.

Yeah. Or panel or advisory. The motion is for three names, but we don't have to do them three at a time either.

Well, the motion has been made.

The motion's been seconded.

Yes.

Three position.

We have to have three names. There three positions. Call the question. um motion and a second for all three uh names. Can you repeat them, please?

Um Dave Allen, Anastasia Woody, and Philip Daniels.

Not sorry, but

me again. Philip Daniels in ETJ thought we needed three inside that. No, it may include um up to is it

up to three in the EJ?

Three in the ETJ. So, he's one in the ETJ and the other two are in town, [clears throat]

but again, um that Morgan Cadros and Travis I think would be fantastic on that. So, it's not like

that's okay.

You're talking about some creating a separate advisory.

Yeah. the panel works.

All right, the motion was for those three names. Question has been called. So all those in favor say I.

Are we done with the discussion?

I call the question.

If the question is called rules is that once someone says call the question, then the question is posed. We vote. Go ahead.

Okay. All those in favor say I. Hi.

Any opposed? Okay, motion passes. Thank you. All right, we got five items from consent agenda. First one is uh the budget amendment for the public works building. Uh, Commissioner Huner,

you requested this.

I requested this on behalf of

Commissioner Huner, thank you very much for making that request. Apologies for my tardiness and getting to the meeting very briefly. I just wanted to have conversation about this because um, municipalities nearby are actively electrifying their power outdoor power equipment. I gathered that this seems to be an outdoor power equipment shed.

Uh it's going to be uh let's see here 50 by 100 ft 14 ft ceilings um with a concrete pad that's included in the bid or the estimate that we received for the building itself. That's 160,000. Um and then we've got 40 for uh wiring, plumbing, and HBAC. And part of that will be a personnel office. And then we'll move parks and wreck in there hopefully in the short term. Um and then have a couple of days for new equipment.

But there will be equipment base.

Yes. Yes. Uh mainly for large trucks.

Oh, large trucks. Okay. Well, the mention of parks and recck made me think that there would be some mowers or something going in here. I just want to encourage anytime we're building new parks, excuse me, any new public works facilities or parks and rec facilities, we think carefully about the electrical as regards the need to save money by doing what other municipalities are doing, that is electrifying outdoor power equipment.

Yeah. And we've done that. Uh, you know, the the building that we just renovated, it has a closet specifically for battery charging. Great. So, yeah, we [clears throat] fantastic. Daniel's already thinking, let's move on. Make a motion.

Oh, I'm sorry. Uh, move to approve.

Second.

Motion [clears throat] to approve the budget amendment.

Commissioner Foley. All those in favor say I.

Any opposed? All right. Up next is the budget amendment for the property purchase of the railroad properties. Just want a brief description by the town manager exactly what that is for the public to understand the two partials that CSX owns CSX railroads next to the I hope steel town hall site and we have been working for two years to try to acquire it. Um so it's for that and it's for a narrow strip of railroad that used that's behind uh

the old termin building, right? Is it that? It's it's behind the homes garden country home and garden on small street.

Okay.

So, we're getting both of those and then we'll work with the owner uh to then transfer that or sell that property there.

I move. Thank you for that.

Earnest money deposit. That's not the purchase price.

No, this is the whole amount. So, so what happened was that we budgeted it in last fiscal year. It did not carry over. So we needed to rebudget it

because they're finally ready to actually second we don't

vigorously [clears throat]

approve the budget.

Approve the budget.

Second.

I all those in favor say I.

I don't.

All right. Uh up next is the interlocal advorum tax billing and collection agreement. So, the county has been giving us a pretty good deal for many years. They think they realized that the

deal they were giving us and so this is updating what they charge as a percentage to collect the town's taxes. It's still a good deal, I think. And and Heather worked on it for a while and so it's going to stage up over time.

It's going to stage up.

It's going to increase incrementally just for the for the next three years up to the rate that they wanted to start charging us initially. So we had a discount by the county unintentionally

had a very low rate

for less than half a percent.

Yeah, they were

and this is this is in line what with what other um municipalities are paying for the counties to do this service

and they're charging Solid City and Ghost in the same thing.

Yeah.

Very good. I move to approve the interlocal adorum tax billing and collection revision.

Good description.

All right.

Second.

Second. Commissioner Huner. All those in favor say I.

Any opposed? All right. Up next is the request for theou with Chattam County for Lewis Freeman parking.

So we'd like to do some parking. Uh we currently have the easement. We just want to add tempes there. Uh we have a little bit of money in the Louisis Freeman park project for this. I am going to probably put put this on hold just for a slight time just to make sure we can get through the Louiswis Freeman park construction without needing this $4,800 is is what the quote is.

Rectory Street.

Yes. If you pull into where the tax office is, it's going to be that little grass area.

Yep. And the county is in favor and they're going to maintain it after we build it. Thank you. Uh I move uh hang on a second here. Where are we

to I'll make [clears throat] approve theou with Chattam County for parking expans park uh parking parking expansion.

All right. Is there a second?

Second.

All those in favor say I.

I opposed. All right. And last before close session is the request to convey personal property to the Liberty Police Department.

Can you describe that real quickly?

Yeah,

personal property.

The um we got new body cameras and new in cameras and so we just want to give our old stuff to Liberty to help them out.

No, they'll be erased and there's no data on it. That type of thing, right?

Yeah.

That's a very generous offer. Move to uh approve the conveyance of personal property Liberty Police Department. Second. [clears throat]

Thank you, Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor say I. Any

opposed? Right. Now I'll take a motion to enter into close session pursuant to NCGS1431811 A3 to consult with C attorney instructions concerning the judicial action of seven direction service at al versus town of Pittsburgh at al.

Thank you Huner second.

Second question. All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Please. It's all right.

Maybe you put the wires under.

Right.

All right. We are back in open session. I'll take a motion to adjurnn.

There's a move.

Motion by Commissioner Huner, second by Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor say I.

Thank you.

Thank [clears throat] you.