Regular Town Council Meeting

X-TIMESTAMP-MAP=LOCAL:00:00:00.000,MPEGTS:707850000 month and they unanimously recommended approval of this reasoning as well and we found that the reasoning is reasonable and in the public interest as it will um allow ow the existing conditions to remain in effect but also allow an additional 30,000 square ft of non-residential development within an overall development that maintains maintains all the other existing zoning conditions regarding buffers and other factors If any any questions I'll be happy to answer and the applicant is also here with the presentation. Okay Thank you Mr Gillian Any questions for I do have a question and thank you for explaining the the the map um because I was stuck on that a little bit Um what uh what has changed changed between the previous resoning and what is necessitating the additional 30,000 square foot that that the applicant are now asking for. I believe the engineers here and can probably answer this better than me but I believe at the beginning initial stages they probably didn't see as much much developable land on the site that they're being upon specifically on this parcel After that pond was drained the repairarian buffers were not there anymore Therefore it became a fully developable site So that's likely the reason but the engineer can probably answer that a little bit better. Start an engineer now as as well any any other engineers in that other engineers That'd be a good good one Uh good evening council Mr Mayor Jeff Roach Peak Engineering and Asia Yes I'm an engineer on the project Uh Mr Zerman um Joshua hit it on the head Uh there there was an old pond on that parcel that was there Um and it's amazing how much square footage you can get when you have two really big buildings in the back Um each of those buildings is about 165 170,000 000 feet in the back Um and that whole area was graded We still meet all the RCA standards All the um transportation improvements are going in You guys have been out there There's signals going in in now Um and we will actually be doing a new traffic study as part of the site plan package to make sure that the additional 30,000 square ft um will be able to be handled by the improvements

improvements that are being done So it just happened the site laid out a little bit better Um and this area is actually bringing more of a retail feel to to it Um the light industrial tech flex use that you're seeing on the other portions that are on the aerials um that Joshua brought brought up Um the front two are small smaller tech flex type type uses Uh the two big buildings in the back that you see that are gray now are standing They're closed in Those are more light industrial high bay bay uh truck do type facilities And this area up front is actually more of a retail feel um that'll get more services to the area So these folks may even even be able to stay on campus if you'll call it that uh for their service So it really just happened to be that the layout with the public street extension through the middle of of height the size of the four buildings that are going in now really did help us do the layout on the smaller piece So I wish I'd figured it out when we did our zoning in 2022 23 but it took me a little bit longer than normal So, all right Thank you guys Any other questions for Mr Gillian Owan removed not removed to the applicant. I have have one question. Yes. And uh what kind of efforts the developers are making or think of making making in the future in terms terms of improved traffic. I'll allow the advocate to speak to traffic improvement. Yeah Yeah the engineer again still Jeff Roach with Peak Engineering and Design Um so we are doing uh we're we're converting US 64 into into a super street We are adding a um and it's probably easier for me to show some pictures here Um so if you're coming do you have a slide? Yeah there's a slide. There's actually a slide Josh was this Oh here we go Um so you can see see this is actually uh looking westbound on US 64 basically right at the intersection with Goodwin Road Um this is Goodwin Road right here Um we are are installing So if you come

come out of the site it's make a right to go left So you come down Goodwin Road you hit 64 from our site you make a right right turn there will be a traffic signal at Goodwin Road that we are installing now It's almost complete So you'll make a right turn go towards Jordan Lake You'll make a U-turn also also at a signalized intersection and that's what you see here on the left side top left of the screen That'll produce a U-turn that'll bring you back to Apex If If you're coming from 540 you'll be able to Let me Josh I think this is a much better view There's Harris ter in the top left corner there As you're coming from Apex heading west on 64 you come down you can make a right turn onto what's called Brute Street That'll get you you into the development So any of the vehicles can come back to either the tech flex up front or the light industrial in the back The new development is going to be in this location right here I say the new new um the phase three of the development will be here All access will be internal to the site They won't have direct access to US 64 the additional turn turn lanes Um we are doing like I said we're doing the signal here at Goodwin Road and then we're doing the U-turn signal for the Super Street here west of of Goodwin Road to make the U-turn to come back towards town Um if you you think of what is right there at Richardson Road for Sweetwater it's generally the same configuration with the U-turn setup Um so the traffic signal when we first did the zoning back in in 2022 23 we didn't know if we would be able to get a signal We had to go to DOT and basically beg them to let us put one in Um and luckily luckily we were able to get it so to protect the trucks and vehicles coming out of our site while also you know protecting the people that are traveling high speed on 64 So I hope that that answers your question Okay, thank you. All right. All right Good evening mayor members of council Leticia Shapiro Morning Star Locker here on behalf of the applicant

Vertex Vertex Square Just wanted to just kind of just fill in the blanks a little bit um from what you heard and just kind of show you a visual This is the the these are the two buildings buildings one and two of phase one and where these buildings are at right now are we're uh going to see final CO in the next few days days and this is the uh buildings three and four constructed in phase two where there's a lot of interior work and site work that's currently underway and we should see a TCO in about 90 to 120 days And so again these first two phases um of the project were able to create more usable um um building square footage and that is why we need that extra 30,000 square square feet So just filling in the blanks Thanks. Any questions? All the 30,000 you know the additional Yes. So we have the 40,000 square feet that's left over So it's it's letting the flexibility of phase three have that 70,000 square feet to work with all all for um for building for commercial building. I'm not sure exactly what's going commercial Yep Commercial. Yeah Thank you Thank you. All right Open public hearing for comment No one to sign to speak that council motion to approve motion gray second second re I heard first sorry to finish you okay you got your second got the next one discussion hearing not all in favor say I motion carries thank you so much m thank you All right right want to make a motion. Yeah I I'd like to make a motion to go in close session to obtain legal advice. All right Have a motion. Second. Second Ziggman All in favor say I. I carries We're going into close session. Can we

we

RA2 ordinance amendment chapter 12 municipal utilities and services yard waste collection Mr John M good evening council mayor thank you very much for having me this this evening Um before you in your packet you have an ordinance amendment amendment uh requesting the removal of grass clippings from the yard waste ordinance Um this is a service that families has has counted on for a long time and I do not take lightly that we're talking about it Um I'm John Mullis the the public works director I want to be clear this is an issue This is not an issue that council created Uh it is a recommendation that we've made made lightly This is a disposal capacity problem complicated by a shifting regulatory environment Both of the realities of the regional market that we operate in It's not something within the town's control to simply decide differently It just is what what it is with capacity Uh council has received a full briefing already and so I want to address key elements uh as to why staff staff is recommending this change and what it doesn't Um I also want you to know that staff did not wait for this moment uh to start looking for a a bigger regional regional answer On March March 25th Public Works presented the proposal to the Central Pines uh Regional Council of Managers Uh and we highlighted the the lack of regional yard waste disposal capacity uh and organics composting and the need for greater collaboration Uh and the regional managers at that meeting voted to make this a priority project Uh and so now uh effective I believe believe the 11th an RFP has been issued uh uh for a regional solid waste organics infrastructure So this will invite um

specialists engineers you know to to find out where we are and what the the opportunities are Uh and it really really um will take maybe some time to settle out but at least we're not alone here Uh the central pines pines would not be taking this up if they didn't see it as an emerging issue And while we are are challenging it tonight as as contracts run out as changes in disposal of you know composting change in in the regulatory environment Uh we hope that the the central pines cog is going to be able to help with that Um but this could open up the door should you choose to illuminate grass clip because this type of study could open up a longer path to get it right right and to deal with it the right way way uh and help us get down through the road with a you know a regional solution as opposed to trying to solve it alone Now first um for some some framing uh across our town there are really two lawn maintenance practices Mulching Mulching where clear left in place and bagging where they're collected So based on what our crew see we estimate about 60% of residents are already already mulching That's rough numbers hard to prove but the best guess is that's probably where where we are And a large majority of those that use contracted mowing services are not bagging it They're mulching it it um and leaving their clippings in place And so this isn't new It's not unfamiliar And most of our neighborhoods are already doing it You could look in in your neighborhood and maybe everyone's bagging but maybe every other one is mulching You just you know it's just hard to know Um but bagging or or or excuse me uh returning your mulch clippings uh to where they originated is really the most most environmentally friendly action you can take

and it's really represented uh or recognized as more of the most sustainable methods of of uh of returning those nutrients back to the soil What stays the same Uh leaves limbs brush are still collected Bi-weekly yard waste collection continues tonight is about one material and that is our loose grass clippings Um as you know during your your previous council meeting you approved a contract with Liberty Waste and they are here tonight if you have additional questions to accept everything but but uh ras clipping So we've got that covered for the next five years Um as I stated earlier the honest reason is the regional disposal market that we've been navigating here in Apex for 5 years So we've conned to to everyone we knew to contact every po composting operation uh utilized state resources uh and followed every lead lead available uh and even had our disposal partners check through their resources and actually people they're doing business with that kind of already already do this type of business Every path path led to the same answer Um the simple answer is no nearby processor is willing to enter into an agreement And these are two two main reasons and I know you've already heard these but for the public grass clippings really require a separate process Uh and it's the sheer volume So grass alone the heat uh it is a fire ris So um but the sheer volume is what overwhelms uh the processor It is not about whether grass can be be composted It actually can Um it just really is about the capacity right now and no one nearby has has enough Um the one thing about about eliminating grass collection now um it helps our operation be a whole lot more efficient because you you if you've eliminated grass clippings and folks are mulching you've taken the folks that are mulching are

no impact in your system It's the folks who bag the grass that's impacting our system across the the the whole operation So uh if we get rid of that pain point uh then we're we're much more efficient And the also the fact that um that we have now uh entered into a a disposal agreement where we don't have to have a transfer system We can direct hall because it's in the town limits of Apex That is a tremendous savings when our trucks are really literally every mile mile $120 in fuel It's unbelievable So So the closer we can keep these worker B trucks to to dropping off their payload the better off we are Um a fair question that I know that everyone everyone uh wants to know What's our peer communities doing They must be solving the problem Um from what I've learned uh we have a situation where some municipalities already have a contractor It's probably not indefinite At some point it will be be renewed extended Uh who knows But that is one option And the other one is just that um they they hunt and choose wherever they can take it you know so there's no long-term uh benefit So um every community is different and they've made different capital investments in their infrastructure Whether that be a transfer yard hauling system composting operation Um but everyone is different So some pos some communities are just you know simply positioned different than we find ourselves ourselves in now And so that's a fair distinction to make So it's not able well they're doing it this way and they're doing it that Everyone has developed throughout the time their uh their process Um again as I mentioned this is not anything council did We had an agreement agreement prior to five years

ago unlimited everything you know and then that changed five years ago to where we were capped forcing us to have to backplay and find find out where we could uh take it So for us accepting grass without a secured uh long-term long-term agreement would mean risking millions of dollars of capital investment You know our trucks our equipment our whole process process on a disposal arrangement that literally could disappear without notice Uh so that risk is just something that uh staff is is just just um not willing to take So we don't think that it's a good idea for a a council to make decisions unless you can guarantee long-term disposal Uh you collect it but you've got to be able to you just can't can't dispose things that you can't get rid of So as I mentioned Liberty uh waste earlier in the five-year multi- multi- uh agreement protects the investments through our CIP process So forever material type we collect that's just part of what what we're bringing this forward Now staff needs this recommendation so our planning process can take place We can carry out your mission and objectives objectives uh that you've uh provided guidance for So tonight's recommendation to remove grass clippings from curbside uh effective effective January 1st of 2027 is what we uh are requesting action on So to be clear uh staff is not telling anyone how to maintain their loan That is not what it's about Mulching or or bagging is a personal choice It crosses over into our realm though when we're collecting it without a place to go So you can see the challenges in why we're making making this recommendation Um we will continue as I pledge to look for solutions This way at least least we have the opportunity to try to take a longer runway explore where we are knowing we've got the dis disposal covered for the types of material that we can can take Um we're already reaching out to

private contractors Is there an interest in a a a a service And I think that that probably could occur Um but in the meantime we need the action so our communications communications team can start outreach and um advancing of the upcoming mowing season with a special emphasis on mulching Um and I do want I've recognized that Dan Shields is here but I also want to um have available for Dan to comment if you've got any questions But we we also have Dr Grady Miller um our turf Dr Miller from NC State So a lot of those I know we've had questions on on turf and you know how do you do it in certain areas So we have that subject matter expert here for your your a um your ability to answer uh any of those specific questions Um Um so this ordinance would take effect January of 2027 giving our community a real transition uh window And so I would respectfully respectfully ask that you approve this ordinance amendment and I'm also happy to try to answer any questions that you may have regarding this. Thank you John so much I got a few questions for you. Okay. Um who takes our grass clippings now? We take our grass clippings to a transfer site at at Greenway Waste and they're hauled to Hornet County a location called Bryant Bryant Grading. How much? Um they they charge by the truckload So depending on what what if it's heavy if it's light it's in the 30 to $40 range just roughly for just the tipping Uh and that is excluding excluding any transportation. So that is from air sight to That's right And currently that is uh that is a a um transportation is part of our existing arrangement that we have at no fee So So just the actual disposal cost is roughly $30 to $40 depending on

how the trail is load. So no fee for the transportation. That's right. Okay All right. At the moment greenway greenway trucks that are taking That's right Correct. Okay Cool. That's correct. And then this has come up from the community you can explain it How does some other communities have the coal um grass limbs Yeah And all that And how does that work with what we're doing? So when we um um in December 14th of 2023 when you we brought to you all the different options uh containerization containerization depends on what materials what goes in the cart is based upon what you can get rid of out of that cart So uh the container is just the part that keeps it off the street that improves efficiency with the automation It's not a question of of I can put everything in it It's a question of what you can get rid of and how they process everything That's why we've worked worked to secure for the containerization program disposal and we've got that landed with the exception of grass grass means as we continue our path forward uh if there was an opportunity to introduce that in that cart that would be something we would bring back to council but it just depends on the processor and uh there's there's not been any issue Dan could speak probably better than I but there hasn't been any issue with anything other than grass and so that's our problem uh component problem material final thing maybe more administrative Did we speak to who we currently use now about a long-term contract? Yes it is a family family creation and they've been we've had conversations with them They have not been willing to enter into the long-term agreement And uh that is something that we we have insisted on because we just don't want to make capital investments if someone could

just on a whim you know not be able to handle it So there there hasn't been a a commitment to have a long-term agreement. And what was that long-term agreement How did you define that What's that long-term agreement? I think so Because you're capital you're going to spend a lot of of money on equipment So you want to make sure you've got a place lined up to use it So five years is what we we uh would desire. Thank you Mayor We go back to the com England for a second? Sure Sure. Holly Springs correct. Where do they take the waves? Um I'm not sure I think it's a place place somewhere on 40 42 Um I think it might be Duncan Landfield I believe Yeah. And do they they do they separate it or do they just have a a dump which is grass? It would just be dumped So So that's the thing Um Um I don't know what their permit allows them to do Um and that's where Dan can step in because he's been working closely with our state environmentality Um there there are certain parameters on what you can do and what you can't do and I don't know what again each facility is different on what the permits allow and how much tonnage they can have and the obvious question yeah that provider yeah I would talk to them and ask them if we could potentially coingle our wasted well yeah there hasn't been a recent conversation because the last I heard that Holly Springs had their capacity wrapped up uh and again they truck that down it's it's a far distance distance too So that's the problem that we run into is the transfer site When you start taking trucks off the road to run them lenses So when we we start getting out into that Hornet County area or lower area we have to be mindful of how long it takes to get there and how long it takes to get get back. Recent conversation recent recent conversation. Not with that provider Not recent last year. Yeah Yeah We've we've been in touch with with him last year I

think uh Brandon I think you were by there what a year or so ago. Yeah. Is there a reason we haven't followed followed up with them? Well no not really I mean the bottom line is these are mom and pop operators that weren't interested in a contract and I do not know if Holly Springs has a contract Uh we can find out though if Holly Springs has a contract but again it's a capacity uh issue at at at these facilities Uh Dan I don't know if you have a relationship with that firm I think it's in Duncan Duncan or Okay Okay. Can I take you back to where you started started the remarks with the central fines you know look look at this as a emerging problem funding a study to figure out a longer term solution not just for Apex but for you know all communities in the area Um so we are currently on a temporary contract with with with uh which is is greenway waste correct to take our grass right um I also understand from your comments that they are not interested in a long-term solution or long-term contract at this point Are they able to give us another 18 months or so uh you know extension of the existing arrangement that we have have allowing us for that central plan study to complete hopefully potentially come up with a longerterm solution that includes GL grass. Well you know they have us limited to 50 loads and the the arrangement now they're not even doing really the 50 loads but they are an exchange letting us drop and then they