Regular Town Council Meeting

Mhm.

Mhm.

All right, good evening everyone. We'll go ahead and call the order the regular town council meeting for Tuesday, 23rd, 2026. And we'll go ahead and move to our commencement diversity statement. The town of Apex values and celebrates diversity and inclusion. We see diversity as a strength that binds our community together, inviting members from different faith communities to deliver the invocation at the beginning of our council meeting supports this unity. Recognizing that not everyone practices the same traditions, we We you to have a private moment of silence at this time. So, if you would please join us in a moment of silence. Thank you. Thank you. If you're willing and able, please stand and join us for the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

[clears throat]

All right, thank you so much. You probably noticed we're dressed a little bit different tonight. This is our last meeting before the summer break. So, that means we get out of here at 6:30 and we're headed to the summer break early.

Second.

Yeah. We couldn't figure out a theme tonight. We got all kind of themes going on, but we'll make it work for the meeting. So, let's go ahead and move on with the announcements and petitions by the governing body. We'll start with Mayor Pro Tem Mahaffey.

Thank you, Mayor. Colleagues, there's two things I want to bring to you tonight. The first, I was contacted by I believe it's the American Heart Association to request that we sponsor an Apex a model an ordinance related to being a smoke-free community. And this is actually something we passed I think five or six years ago, an older version of this. And they have a newer model ordinance that involves e-cigarettes are mentioned now and and some other language in there. Raleigh and Cary are both working on the same ordinance and I'd like to sponsor that ordinance in Apex. So, if there's no

objection, I'd like to refer this to our vitality community committee. And the committee process can take a look at the ordinance and and see how it may apply to Apex. All right.

To clarify, not economic vitality, but vibrant community.

Oh, sorry. Glad you're here, Alan. Vibrant community was what I thought would be the the committee that most matched this this thing. So, we'll refer to that committee and then the committee chair can set a meeting and and take a look at the ordinance uh probably in the fall. So, seeing some nods, that's good. Um the second thing I want to discuss tonight uh had to do with even-year elections. This has been something that's been on our legislative agenda for 2 years in a row. It's something that we've put out feelers about and discussed. We had a presentation um about a month ago, was it? Uh from the Board of Elections about the benefits and and and trade-offs there. I think w- although we have expressed interest, we've never given clear direction to go try and do it. And we're at a moment, and the reason I'm bringing this up, is the short session's about to end. So, we need to make a decision on whether we're going to pursue this or not for this year. Um I think if it's something we want to do that we should say so now. If we're deferred to next year, we might be in the same situation where we say, "Hey, the next election's too close. We need We don't want to make any changes." And it might be another 2 years down the road. Uh so, I would like to uh when it comes time to approve the agenda, add a new business item agenda item uh to discuss on a possible motion and have more of a discussion about where we want to go and do it or don't do it. Give Give some clarity to our staff and to our um legis- our lobbyist. So, thank you, Mayor.

All right, thank you. All right, Council member Gray is uh scheduled to join us later. Is that right, Mr. Clerk? Okay, very well. We'll move to Council member Zegerman.

Um just one uh comment. Uh July 8th will be the next uh multimodal transportation advisory board's uh meeting. Uh this board has recently added a public hearing section uh sorry, public forum section to their agenda. So, the public is invited to come speak in front of that uh that

advisory board as well uh for anything that is um you know, transportation-related, uh walkability, bikeability, uh connectivity within uh within the town. Um so, any thoughts, ideas, concerns that you might have around uh those topics, uh you know, please uh feel feel to join the uh the public forum at the multimodal transportation advisory board on July 8th. Starts at uh 4:45 um in these uh in these chambers here.

Okay. Thanks so much, Council. Council member Mo.

Um I don't have uh anything new, but I want to thank all our town staff employees, all the public safety, you know, officers for their hard work to protect us and to create the best place to live and work in Apex. And I am also excited about the coming July 4th holiday. So, I wish everyone a happy, you know, a holiday. If you are traveling, please be safe. That's all. Thank you.

Thank you, Council member Mo. All right, Council member Reese.

Thank you, Mayor. Want to first say congratulations all of the area high school seniors who just graduated. Um got a chance My colleagues and I got a chance to go to some of the graduations and just really uh proud of all the young people and um encouraged by their energy um and their positive outlook on life. The next thing I wanted to say was uh it was a uh pleasure to join the Chamber of Commerce Government Affairs meeting this morning uh at 8:00 a.m. at the depot and I wanted to give a hats off to um uh Marlon Newman uh director of Thank you. Um who uh did gave a incredible presentation on uh affordable

housing again to our business community. And so, I thought that was um well done. So, congratulations on that. And my that's my last thing is my segue to uh the Chamber event tomorrow that is the Peak Summit Series. Um it is $15, I believe, for non-chamber members, free for chamber members. It is at SpringHill Suites from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. tomorrow. And I will be uh have the privilege of being with one of our town staff members overseeing the downtown streetscape and downtown plan project. And we will be answering questions, and so we look forward to seeing you there. Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you, Councilman.

All right, I have two quick things. First of all, we had a great time Saturday to Juneteenth event, and I want to give special thanks to um Lisa and Megan, Craig, your team, all the Town of Apex staff, PD, fire, everyone representing public works. It was really a great time. Um we had our I would say the the best showing in the 6 years of Juneteenth event. So, thank you for all who came out to help us celebrate that. And then the last thing I have is um there's a rumor, but I think it's fact, but could be a rumor that the Stanley Cup may be coming to Apex at some point.

Oh, yes.

Thought y'all would want to know that. So, my understanding is they're going to rotate it throughout all the municipalities in Wake County, and and Apex is on that list, of course. So, we should see it before September. So,

Is this tonight cuz you're wearing the jersey? I feel like

I know. I'm trying I'm [laughter] trying to send a message. I think the president heard it well.

right there.

[clears throat]

We're trying. So, that's all I have. Thank you so much for that. We'll move now to the adoption of the open meeting agenda. And Mr. Clerk, if you would read the additions or changes to the printed agenda.

Yes. So, I've got three items here. The mayor has requested deferral of the following items to August 13th, 2026, which is consent item 26, the rules of Town Council rules of procedure.

The second is the mayor has requested deferral of the Resident Advisory Board appointments, Town Clerk item 1 through 8 until August 20 August 25th. Um Council has also requested the continuance to continue with uh TC5, which is the appointments to the Environmental Advisory Board to ensure full functionality with the regular meetings and sub-committee meetings. And then C, uh Mayor Pro Tem Mahaffey has requested a regular meeting agenda item to provide direction on the town's municipal elections moving to even years.

I have one more addition I'd like to make, uh Mr. Clerk. Uh I'd like to request another closed session to discuss an employee related matter. Okay.

Okay. Is that it?

All right. So, with those changes, I'd like to move it up to the agenda.

All right. We have a motion for adoption. Mayor Pro Tem seconds. Zigman.

And just to clarify, we are deferring the the rules and then continuing with TC5.

That's right.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you.

All right. We have a motion second. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed. The motion carries. All right. We're moving now to consent. I have no noted changes for the consent. Any notices, Mr. Clerk, for that?

No. I have no revisions.

All right. None there. Is there a motion?

Move to approve.

Move to approve. Mayor Pro Tem.

Second.

Second. Reese. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed. Motion carries. All right. Move now to town manager report.

Mr. Clerk.

All right. Good evening, Mayor and Council. I have quite a few items to go through, so I will try to move quickly. Uh I want to start referencing there was an item adopted tonight on consent just now that related to utility debt write-off. I just wanted to clarify that was utility debt uh that was prior to to 2020. Uh so, it was not related to any of the new um utility debt issues that we are working through. Uh so, just wanted to clarify that point. Uh a note about our EAB

data [clears throat] center sub-committee. Uh the web page is up. You can go to our website, put in EAB Data Center study. They're seeking public input through the process. So, you're interested in that process, you can go to the committee page and you can sign up to receive email updates on the webpage. So, you can follow along with their progress.

What was that one?

It's It's through our website, but it's the EAB Data Center study and public input. So, it's the subcommittee that's been created through EAB. Next, a lot of discussion about our Salem Street project, streetscaping. We've had a lot of positive momentum this week. So, I do want to mention that project and let you know that the work will continue with the pavers and by the end of this week, I believe they're going to have all of the sidewalk pavers in on the one side, that's the goal. There's still a little bit more work to do before they go to the other side of the roadway. They're projecting to switch towards the mid to late July. So, mid to end of next month. They would switch over to the other side of the roadway, but a lot of progress going on there. You can see the pavers in front of some of the businesses and that'll continue. Hopefully by the end of this week have most of the sidewalk pavers in place. Next is on Splash Atlantis, our Pleasant Park splash pad. Good news here. Hopefully, we've got a contract signed for the repairs. They will be working on those repairs tomorrow. I'm seeing all our Parks and Rec folks nod yes. Okay. So, [clears throat] hopefully those repairs are completed tomorrow. We've got to do some testing, make sure everything's working there. The goal is by the weekend, but there is a chance it could be before the weekend, but we're aiming for the weekend on that to have the splash pad back open. Now that school's out, it's great timing. So, hopefully good news there.

[clears throat]

We've got a couple of other maintenance items for our Parks and and Rec Department with some of our different facilities. The Nature Park, we still have that lighting outage. That should be resolved by Thursday. So, those lights should be

back up and running on that. Uh Hunter Street Park fields, they're down just for tonight. I think at night we have a lighting issue that should be resolved. They're they're changing out some a panel or some electrical component. So, weather holding up, those should be back in operational uh tomorrow at Hunter Street. We've got a number couple of turf renovations. Uh we're through the summer trying to get our fields ready for the fall when the fields get utilized even more. So, we've got a couple of fields in Community Park and JC Cricket fields that are undergoing maintenance over the next couple of weeks. So, you'll see those fields down for that maintenance. I think that's all from our Parks and Rec. All right. Okay, good. We'll see you guys in a little bit for our proclamation. Ask Apex. Let's go there next. Uh again, continue to hear great news and get great numbers out of our Ask Apex team. They are now up to for this report, 95% of calls are resolved by our Ask Apex team. So, you call there, there's a 95% chance that we can take care of it through the Ask Apex. 5% need to go out to the different departments or for further research. And our average time to answer calls right now is at a minute. So, pretty pretty quick access to uh solutions through our Ask Apex team.

[clears throat]

Heading into more good news, our Peakway Southwest Connector update, uh a lot of lot of exciting things going on there. The final asphalt layer will be done throughout July. Pavement markings, traffic signals, and the punch list by mid-August. Uh the loop road is tentatively scheduled for opening September-ish. Uh so, that's awesome. And we're looking at a mid-fall for the project opening. So, that's coming a lot sooner than we had anticipated. So, more details to come on that, but that project right now is is trending well. And we'll be putting information out on some kind of opening ceremony for that, hopefully. Launch Apex. The applications we're

soliciting for cohort 10, and applications close on July 17th or when we reach 50 applications. So, if you're thinking about it, get your application in because they will close when we get 50 or by July 17th. We've got a number of events coming. First I'll mention is Comm University with Parks Planning. That's on June 25th at the Apex Senior Center from 6:00 to 8:00. We've got our Afternoon in the Garden program. That's on Saturday, June 27th from 3:00 to 5:00 p.m. at Apex Nature Park. We've got our classical concert series coming up Sunday, June 28th from 3:00 to 4:30 at The Halle. And this one's titled The Guitar, a historic perspective. We've got town [clears throat] offices with our events coming up. Town offices will be closed on Friday, July 3rd. And that's in conjunction with Fireworks Frenzy, which will have be happening on July 3rd from 4:30 to 10:00. Uh and we've got a lot of the traditional. So, if you recall, we we used to do July 3rd and 4th. The events have been combined this year into one day. So, we've got the parade of wheels that will be um one of the first events up on that day, followed by the splashdown with the fire department, the traditional event there. We've got the expanded drone light show. So, we've added from last year to this year, they've got some additional drones, and you'll see a lot of things you'll recognize in the air from around Apex. And pretty unique in the area in terms of 4th of July shows with the drones. And we've got food trucks, and then of course, we will have the traditional fireworks display after that. So, a lot of things that are happening for well, the 3rd of July for the 4th of July on the 3rd. Uh we've also got sensory friendly room that we've put out. That'll be open from 8:00 to 10:00 for those individuals that um don't want to deal with the noise and crowds, and it's a lot. Uh, so we will have in the senior center from 8:00 to 10:00, and there are goody bags for those that will be in there and some activities and and different things there. So, you can get that on our website for more information.

We've got a summer fun dance Saturday, July 11th from 5:00 to 7:00. That's at the Halley as well, and you got to get tickets for that. $5 for individuals, $2 for children. Uh, that's it for events. And then, last thing I want to mention is also good news. Uh, it's related to our utility billing collections. Uh, so face value sounds like bad news, it's a bad topic, but I can tell you in the last 2 weeks since we reported, uh, we have gone from 100 and around 150 uh, payment plans to now 250 payment plans. So, we've seen a significant increase in 2 weeks. And the total outstanding debt uh, that we've been tracking has reduced by about 20%. Uh, that doesn't mean we've received all those funds, that means we've received funds and or they're under a payment plan. Uh, but we've got about 20%. That number was around 6.9 million, and we are now at around 5.4 million and some change. Uh, so a significant amount, well over 1.4-ish million, is either in payment or in payment plans now. So, we're seeing significant progress there. Uh, and continue to get calls on a daily basis of people interested in setting up payment plans. So, we're we're hopeful on that front. And the last thing I have is our meter update. We've our approximately 19,000 electric meters have been exchanged. Uh, it's a little over 66% plus. So, we'll continue to make progress, and again, with the goal of the fall being done there. So, that's all that I've got.

Thank you so much. Any [clears throat] questions for Mr. Boswell? All right. Moving on to town clerk's report, Ms. Coleman.

Okay. So, we'll move to TC5.

Yep.

Correct. So, we've got um three appointments um for partial terms effective July 1 through December 31st, 2026. These terms were previously occupied by

Mark Spiegel, Changling Hu, and Sandra Villacorta. Uh two of these individuals have moved out of the corporate limits and one is no longer able to serve due to time commitments. So, we're looking for um consensus on and a recommendation for the three as well as the youth voting position.

Yes, [clears throat] um Mayor pro tem has a motion.

Okay. Uh thank you, Mayor. So, um to fill everyone in how we got here, the mayor has asked for us to defer some of the appointments and I concurred. Uh the one exception I wanted to bring up to discuss was the EAB because EAB is missing three full members and we failed to meet quorum on Thursday. Uh they have data center work they're working on. Um they're talking about a special meeting in in July. So, I felt it was important to, even if we're deferring the majority of our appointments, to still move forward with these particular appointments. Um so, to that effect, Mayor, I make a motion to um suspend the rules and appoint Courtney Landoll, Ramesh Nalovi, and Kimberly Pearson to the EAB to fill those three positions.

All right, there's a motion.

I'll second.

Seconded. Is there a secondment? Any discussion?

I just want to say I think we got some great applicants I'd love to see eventually find uh place on a board. We're lucky.

Yep. All right, any other All right, hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carries.

And then we've got one youth also on the EAB that we need to fill if we

Do you need Do you need that one right now? Do you need that one right now?

Um it can wait. It can hold over.

Let's Let me Let me Let me vet through those.

[clears throat]

All right, anything else? Okay, great. All right, we're moving now to public art

moment quarterly. Culture and arts moment second quarter calendar year 2026, Miss Taylor Ray and Tom Colwell. Thank you all for being here this evening.

Thank you. All right, good afternoon, Mayor and Council. Um for this quarter's public art moment, the Culture and Arts Advisory Board would like to present about our newest installment, Prismatic Cyclone. Created by Lawrence Fair and named People's Choice Award winner during the 2025-2026 Sculpture Walk, you may recognize it. Prismatic Cyclone now officially resides over at Pleasant Park adjacent to the Splash Land at the Splash Pad.

Yeah, so thank you first of all for approving the purchase of this piece to add to our growing portfolio of art around town. So, I hope everyone's enjoying that. This piece in particular is aluminum and stainless steel and it's our first kinetic sculpture. So, kind of acting with the wind to give you a 360 view. Now, I do encourage everyone when they go out to see sculptures to take a 360 view. That's the intent and to not be afraid to approach them and and and really get a good look at the sculpture because it's a much different experience live than it is in 2D and on on on the internet or on a on a video or a Uh, but anyhow, we're very uh happy to have this here and um happy to also expand the artwork outside of just downtown. Um we've placed a few in different parks around town. Uh we'll continue to do that uh as we continue to grow the program with your support. So uh very much uh thank you and encourage you to go out and not only uh visit this piece, but also our current sculpture walk. Uh please uh enjoy that. Um you know, maybe on a slightly cooler day, but uh uh nonetheless uh go out and have a have

a nice time. Thank you.

Thank you for your work so much, Tom, and appreciate it. Say what?

This is just a live

Oh, cool.

video. I don't know if we can see that, but

Yeah.

Thank you so much for your time.

Any questions?

Council.

Nice.

[laughter]

Thank you very much. All right. Thank you.

Thank you all so much.

I like the fact that it moves.

Yeah. You like that it moves? Absolutely.

All right. Keep up the great work. All right, move now to presentation one, proclamation parks and recreation appreciation month 2026. So if we uh join in front for the reading of the proclamation, please. Okay, proclamation parks and recreation appreciation month 2026, and kicking off the proclamation will be Mayor Pro Tem Mahaffey.

Thank you, Mayor. Whereas the town of Apex is host to ample opportunities to invest in your health and well-being by being active and getting outside. Through its 12 parks, acres of parkland, 30 miles of outdoor trails, and three indoor recreational facilities. And

Whereas, Apex recreational and cultural programming includes opportunities for individuals of all ages and abilities to participate in art, fitness, sports,

performing arts, specialized recreation, cooking, environmental programs, and other social events. And

Whereas, the 2026 theme for National Parks and Recreation Month is the power of connection, play, nature, community, belonging, and well-being, highlighting the unique ability of our outdoor spaces, accessible facilities, and inclusive programming to bring people together. And Whereas, this year the Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Resources Department is excited to host its summer event Passport to the Parks, inviting residents to solve clues and riddles at eight Apex parks with friends and family, and offering prizes for those who complete their passport. And

Whereas, the town of Apex is proud to be home to an abundance of parks, greenways, and recreation facilities, true gems in our community that bring vibrancy, joy, and lasting value to our residents and to the state of North Carolina.

Now, therefore, I Jacques K. Gilbert, Mayor of Apex, North Carolina, do hereby proclaim the month of July 2026 Parks and Recreation Appreciation Month in the town of Apex and encourage residents to take advantage of all the parks and recreation resources put together and maintained by our excellent town staff. Signed by yours truly on this date. So, if we could have Demetrius Joyner, please come up. Craig Catester, director of Parks and Rec and Cultural Resources, and the entire team, come on up and accept the proclamation, PLEASE. THANK YOU.

[applause] [applause] [cheering]

[laughter]

YOU DON'T WORK HERE.

[laughter]

OKAY, EVERYBODY READY? 1 2 3 Parks and Rec.

Parks and Rec.

ALL RIGHT.

[applause]

SORRY.

THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT, MOVING ON TO presentation two, asset inventory and assessment and grant update, evaluation of current state of the town of Apex sanitary sewer collection. Matthew Ricker. Please come up.

Uh thank you, Mayor and Council uh uh for letting me present this to you guys. Uh this is a project that we just recently uh received some findings on that we've been working on for a couple years. Uh it's My name is Matthew Ricker. I'm with the Town of Apex Water Resources Department. I'm one of the utility engineers. Uh and this project is the evaluation of the current state of the Town of Apex Sanitary Sewer Collection System, for short. Um a little background, since we've got two new council members that weren't here when we originally started this project, uh Town of Apex and a partner, uh consultant engineer Hazen and Sawyer, submitted an application to the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality to the Division of Water Infrastructure subsection uh for an AIA grant, which is asset inventory and assessment grant. Uh that project was approved and a

[clears throat]

approved and accepted by DWI for a an evaluation of the total collection system for the Town of Apex. Uh we were awarded up to $400,000 as part of the American Rescue Plan Act funds. That was in September '23. Uh later into March 2024, we submitted a resolution to Town Council at the time for acceptance of funds and execution of all documents. That was approved as well. Later that year, we moved into project commencement. And then, so for the last year or so, we've been working with maintenance and

operations staff, Hazen and Sawyer, and our utility engineering group to put together a report for this asset asset inventory and assessment. Um so, earlier this year, we got the first draft version from our consultant. After some revisions and some review, we got a final draft submitted last month, final engineering report. And right now, I am presenting the findings that we had from this report and a recommendation from our staff to approve. Uh and at the end, we will be asking for a vote for adoption of acceptance from Council to approve of the final engineering report as part of the funding requirements. Since we had council approve the resolution for acceptance of the funds, goes full circle for approving the final report to close out all of our funding documentation. So, project scope, like I said, consultant engineer was Hazen and Sawyer. The application that we submitted for the project was an asset evaluation of the total collection system with a subset

[cough]

emphasis [clears throat] on discharge points from force mains into ductile iron pipe, which is a known issue. Our system total has approximately 312 miles of gravity main and 46 miles of force main. So, all of those assets were taken into account when we did this report. Now, that doesn't include CCTV or physical inspections. That's That includes data collection, data summary, and field testing. So, all of that combined, but the whole system itself was accounted for in this report. And so, the big point of this project and the the key for why we went for it was we needed an updated version of what is the current state of our town system for sanitary sewer for our collection system, as well as a foundation for moving forward with how to build an asset management program to be more proactive for projects,

maintenance repairs, funding for capital projects. All of those things, we needed something to kind of give a foundation for us to build off of to to push forward with that program, because this is brand new for us. So, some of the deliverables from the report, methodology and data summary, sewer collection system risk assessment framework and results, asset rehab and replacement cost projections, and then capital improvement project recommendations. So, these next two This next slide will be those first two bullets, methodology and methodology and data summary, as well as sewer collection system risk assessment, uh and the framework results. So, I'll start with the results, and then I'll kind of circle back to how we got those numbers, um and how Hazen got the numbers. So, great news, the system is good. Um over 90% of our gravity mains and over 40% of our force mains are considered low risk. Uh and only a tenth of a percent of our gravity mains and less than 10% of our force mains are considered uh high risk. So, on the bottom down there, you can see a risk matrix, and there's two axes. There's a likelihood of failure and a consequence of failure. So, those two go into creating the total risk factor that we have for each asset that we have. And so, everything is calculated um consequence of failures, those are your diameters, difficulties of repairs, location. So, we're talking locations to wetlands, uh railroad crossings, depth of pipe, how difficult would it be, and how hard would it be to actually c- complete this repair if something were to go wrong. Um or any sort of severity to the the the break or any issue like that. Um what kind of severity of it. You go to likelihood of failure, that's now your more tangible evidence, which is age and material.

Your force main discharge, like I was talking about earlier, those are work orders, inspections. Uh we did do some inspections and CCTV as part of this project, and we'll talk about that on a little bit later portion. But, all of that data that we received that's tangible, um all the field work and the orders that the maintenance staff do, all of that stuff is taken into account for likelihood of failure. And then with the maintenance staff and with Hazen, we came up with percentages, and those percentages goes into how much one of those diameter, depth, uh age, material, all those factor into the risk score. And then you've got this matrix here that puts it together. And then if you go to the right on this page, you'll see most of our gravity mains are pretty much a two or lower on both likelihood and consequence of failures, which is great. This is expected numbers for the age of our system. Uh this is what we were anticipating, but it's good confirmation to have. You move to the right, you'll see force mains still a low likelihood of failure score, but the consequence moves up a little bit. That's because force mains are just inherently a little bit more high risk because of the locations, the diameters, difficulty repair, all that stuff. So, still nothing unexpected, still in good shape, but it just that's why it's a little bit further off to the right on consequence of failure for scoring. And so, moving on to the bottom pass of the deliverables, some results. So, we talk about being proactive and using some of this data and some of this inspection tools that we've got. Um this is where it becomes really important. So, Hazen has put together some 2025 cost estimates and extrapolated them out into uh our system applied the end of useful life that we've got for all of our assets. So, this map or this page right here shows every single asset that we have and its expected life. So,

this is just for replacement, not for rehab. So, um if you look, you'll see three main peaks, which is 2045, 2070, 2090. Uh because our system was built in the last Well, we had a boom in the last 20 years or so. That's why we won't see anything for the near future. And then in 2045, that's when it really starts to pick up and we really start to see some projects come through for replacement. And then again, we had another boom. It goes to 2070 and then 2090. This graph right here is really good just because it helps us get a gauge for planning capital improvement projects, planning uh viability for determining which replacement projects, which rehab projects are prioritized, and it helps us get a better understanding of what to expect in the future. And then the last piece of the the presentation or or the last piece of the report that was given to us to us by Hazen was recommendations from them. So, from those from those uh field inspections that we did, we found two near-term projects that they were presented.

[clears throat]

There is the Apex Water Reclamation Facility trunk line that we've got. That's the bottom right uh that one goes from Perry Road down to our water reclamation facility on Pristine Drive. That's a 30 36-in pipe uh which is a major interceptor collecting a lot of uh a lot of the gravity that goes to our water reclamation facility. Um and then the other one on the top left there is the Beaver Creek Interceptor. And so that takes pretty much everything from 540 and north of to the Beaver Creek pump station over there. So, that's another 30 to 30 to 42-in uh diameter pipe. So, another major interceptor and a key component of our infrastructure. Um both of those have near-term projects that will include additional uh

condition assessment and then decision-making before we can make either a replacement or a rehab recommendation for the project. But, those were two that we weren't weren't fully expecting that we found out through this project, which is why another emphasis of why it's something like this is good to continue doing and why the CCTV and the field inspection data is very important. Um tying into that, that's continued asset inspections. So, they recommended 10% of our uh gravity sewer gets inspected a year, which we're doing. Our maintenance team does a great job getting more than that. Um So, that's CCTV, that's pole camera, that's actual video data that we do for the gravity sport portion. For force main, we're talking about uh wall thickness testing. Um And so, that'll find cavities, that'll find any sort of build-up on the outside or inside of those force main pipes. Along with that and paired with it is the hydraulic model. We're putting together a hydraulic model and flow metering, which we actually just came through with a new project uh recently with Vision NC. And we've got flow meters now across the town. Um So, those flow metering and the hydraulic model put together help build a system so we can identify deficiencies that we've got. With those deficiencies, we can go out and start prioritizing inspections in those areas where we think we might need to uh look further. And then the last piece, we've got data management. Um They had recommendations for our GIS files, for Cityworks, for fields that we need to kind of keep inputting. We've got uh try to make an emphasis for inspections to get logged. Um And so, it makes it easier for logging risk factors, get better inspection rates, and which ones are prioritized correctly. So, we're not duplicating efforts and we're uh maximizing [clears throat] our potential in terms of project management for this program.

Um And then the last thing is it says asset management program. So, this is really the intent of this project in general was to build an asset management program internally. Um we needed a little bit of a foundation. All those things there that they've presented to us, all combined are an asset management program put together. So, we'd start taking inspections and we take real-world data. Uh we take the GIS data and the historical data we've got from actual pipe diameters and all the material sizes, all that. We take all of that information, we pair that with the asset inspections, and then we we turn that into some of the hydraulic model, and then we pair that into making uh informed decisions and being proactive so that way we can uh determine which project should be prioritized for rehabilitation or uh uh replacement, excuse me. And uh that's all I've got, I believe. I'm happy to answer any questions best I can. Um and like I said, I we are looking for a motion to vote on the approval of this uh final engineering report. Um but happy to answer any questions.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Reeker. Sorry I missed your name up earlier.

No, it's okay.

Yeah. Um I just have one question. I think it's covered in the uh inspections, but for the great folks out in Jordan Point, the odor that comes back every now and then is how does that work as far as inspections and everything?

Trying to think of the answer. Um For inspections for odor, that would be So, this project specifically was linear. I uh I should say it's linear and not vertical. So, vertical didn't Vertical includes pump stations, which is where that would be kind of tied to with odor control. So, that's the next step is we're trying to take this project and and kind of

get our feeding our foot footing down and then kind of take that into pump stations, other vertical assets because we've got a lot more that we want to do and then we've been working with the maintenance staff as well. So, to answer your question, those would be logged as well. So, the odor control, all the assets that are in pump station as well, those would all get logged. And they would have assigned their own risk factors as well. And so, when stuff like that have we have an issue or we get complaints or something like that, those get logged. That would bump up risk scores. And so, that that wouldn't get lost.

Okay. Thank you so much.

[clears throat]

A couple questions.

Yeah.

First, I want to say thank you for this work. I think it's self-evident that we're in the room how important it is that we maintain especially this infrastructure. You don't want a sewer main breaking, you know, in your town. You don't want especially a pressurized force main breaking. That sounds like a really big problem. So, it's you know, elated to see that we've done this study. Very happy with the results to see that we're generally in very good shape. Um one of the questions I you just answered is that this does not include the pump stations, which are an additional cost to the force mains in addition to and I'm guessing force mains don't last as long because they're pressurized and that has something to do with

Yes.

more they get beat on more by the the kind of

Yeah. Mhm.

Okay. And um on that point you mentioned earlier that I found interesting, we have 312 miles of gravity and we're down 46 miles of force main. Um is that ratio typical would you say for a town? Are we at a healthy balance of getting gravity sewer in? Um and kind of that kind of relates to as we get projects in and they're offering gravity sewer or they're offering to take off line a pump station and some force mains, you know, um how can we measure the relative value of that?

So, we have a handful of projects ongoing right now in the utility engineering group to take off pump stations because it is better and more beneficial to the town for to switch from force pump stations to gravity sewer. So, we actually have a handful of projects that are going to do that. Um to answer your question,

it's hard to gauge the relativity of gravity to force main because it's all based on elevations and geography. Um I believe we have a very close amount to the same as pump stations for Cary or we're a little bit less, but they serve much more than we do. Um so that's just because of planning and or geography. You know, ultimately you can only do so much and if if areas are dense, you end up having to build a pump station there. So we're we're consistent we're consistently working towards building um taking off pump stations, building less pump stations. Um but yeah, it's kind of hit or miss depending. It really just depends on the geography.

All right. Are you done?

Yep.

All right. Um if you could do me a favor go to slide number five, the uh the bar chart. I just want to make sure I read this slide correctly. So are we saying that, you know, let's say around 2070 we're going to be spending $100 million a year on replacements activity or is this worst case scenario unless we properly maintain and rehab these these facilities or these pipes um this is kind of what it would cost us to replace.

Yeah, a little bit of both. So the rehab projects help sustain a little bit more life and can add some longevity to some of these pipes. Um but yes, at a certain point we will have to pay to replace pipes or replace force mains or pump stations or like parts in pump stations because there is only a certain amount of useful life that they can have. I think it's 50 years for uh a ductile iron force main, it's 70 years for a gravity sewer. So at a certain stage it has to be replaced and it can only be lined so much before where starts removing its total diameter and you start not having the what you're actually built for for capacity. So, to answer your question, yes, this is really more of a gauge for expecting

when we would have a surge in uh payments or a surge in uh replacement costs specifically. And so, that's why it's so important to kind of look ahead and see when those peaks would be so we could start prioritizing projects, seeing what we can [clears throat] do to mitigate those costs um either internally or through development or or whatever to try to help sustain the system and save us some money.

Um or like level it out a little bit.

Correct.

So, instead of having these

big, you know, big moments of expenditure. [clears throat] Um thank you. Um and then on the last slide, um so the study reveals two near-term projects. What exactly do we mean by that? Like, you know, for are we recommending these for replacement or rehab? Like, what what's the actual recommendation here?

Yeah, so both of them had some corrosion issues. Uh the Beaver Creek one the Beaver Creek project is a little bit younger or the line itself is a little bit younger, so that one was a little bit more surprising. We didn't do a full uh cameraing of that pipe. That one just happened to get caught as part of the sections we did of all the major critical areas. Um so we need to do more uh CCTV and more pole camera information there to kind of figure out what we have to deal with if it is a replacement. When it's young like that, the pipe, you can get away with replacement because it's in a a little bit better condition typically. Um for the Apex Water Reclamation Facility trunk line section, it's a little bit older of a line. Um and so, we need to put together an internal PER which we have started the process of uh determining if it can be replaced. So, basically we have to analyze the footage that they gave us and determine can this actually be replaced, get some engineering judgment on it, or does it need to be or can it be rehabbed or does it can it be replaced?

Thank you.

Yes.

Replacements like digging up the whole stretch of it.

Or bore or uh leave it in place and we

bore it and and do something else. It It's [clears throat] Replacement is approximately three times as expensive as a rehab, just for reference. As it gets bigger, it gets a little bit more, but that's typically the the ratio.

Thank you again for the presentation um and for all uh the department's hard work. Question, if you could go back to that fifth slide. Yeah, thank you. Um and again, I'm looking at these pe- Is this with population projections incorporated? Like, how is this and the or does that does that not have as much of an impact as as I would think just as

It will have an impact. This is, I believe, including that. Um I could follow up with that just to confirm a little bit more. I believe this includes the population projection cuz we have all that data for expected uh growth. It will not a major amount, I don't believe. Um a lot of our infrastructure is sized for those projections now or the the first portion of those projections now, so um

[clears throat]

that won't be an issue, but yeah, I could follow up and get you a little bit more information on that.

Thanks, no rush. Appreciate that.

I have a naive question, but is there like a cost savings to be done if we proactively do sewer rehab or replacement, rather, as we're like repaving a road or something?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Do we Do we look for that today, like when we're doing a road like sewer line and should we go in

Part Part of this asset management program that we're working with um the the group at Cityworks or with that does Cityworks, Melissa, specifically, um is getting an overlay for the paving schedule so that we can see what high-risk infrastructure we've got underneath the ground for utilities person at least and and storm water in the future. Um where does that overlay with the uh paving schedule? And so that way we're not doing double work, we're not doing additional work underneath brand new pavement. Um

Yeah, so that's being taken into account as well. Um and I think we're pretty open to suggestions and uh we're kind of just running with it. Like I said, this is this is brand new, but we wanted to get momentum from this report and from these findings and really just run with it because it's it's pretty critical information um and it can save the town money if we are proactive and we are uh you know, working together all of our departments to kind of mitigate these things.

Along the the same vein, um so where does the the damage typically occur? Is it inside out or is it outside in? Like what what's the more typical scenario?

Typically, it's the inside of the pipe. So you get a lot of corrosion build-up from sulfuric acid. Um the the big one is from, like I said, the discharge points from the force mains into the gravity sewer which if it's ductile, it's even higher risk because it corrodes quicker than the PVC will. So it dumps into that pipe quicker which accelerates the process. Um over time when it's just stagnating a little bit through the pipes, it builds up a little slower, but it will still eat and corrode the piping. So typically, it's inside.

way or and I know nothing about this, right? So um Is there a way to coat the the inside of these pipes better or

come pre-coated.

Okay.

But it those coatings still are only as they're only so good and they can only last so long and that's about like the 50-year life expectancy or so I think was for the force mains at least.

All right, Thank you.

Yes. Any other questions?

Just have one more quick one. Um for capacity and ADUs, is that how does that work as far as owner dwelling and capacity projection?

Say it again, capacity and what to use?

Like ADUs, accessory dwelling dwelling units.

Okay. How does that work in terms of

Build out for capacity and everything.

Okay. So, that's where the the wastewater hydraulic model, we will

take into account those projections in the future, and we will we will start using that plus the flow metering to basically extrapolate out what our projections should be in the future. And so, that will take that plus the current conditions to estimate is this line acceptable for capacity? Um and if it isn't, then we have to work on towards getting a replacement possibly or diverting flow somewhere else.

Thank you.

Any other questions?

So, I'm wondering um you know, in 2023, we got awarded um 400,000 uh um that grant money, right?

Yes.

So, the presentation is about you this, you know, uh grant money to do the replacement. Okay. So, how much, you know, uh Apex has to pay for it?

So, we were fully reimbursed for this project or we will be fully reimbursed. The last part our last invoice can only be paid until we've got this approved, and this is accepted by council, and then that can close out the contract. But, we ended up spending uh 371 a little over 371,000 of the 400,000. Um so, we with how these projects typically work with DEQ and DWI, we pay for it up front, and then we submit invoices back and get reimbursed from them showing progress reports and all the information. so

I fully fully concur.

Mhm. Yes, ma'am.

Thank you so much.

All right, there a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve the sewer collection system asset inventory and assessment report.

Motion is Zegerman.

Second.

Second. Council member moved. Any further discussion? All right, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed? Motion carries.

Thank you.

Thank you guys so much.

Thank you. Thank you.

All right, public forum.

This is a second.

Yep, got it. Opportunity for community

members to speak. Remember your 3-minute um speaking time unless you have four more people. We have eight people sign up tonight, so I think we're going to be well within our 36 minutes. Uh we'll go ahead get started. If you would come up when I call your name, Rosemary Sadoski Dols.

Good evening. Rosemary Sadoski Dols, 5128 Beckwith Drive, Fuquay Varina. This is about words beginning with the letter T. Apex neighboring municipality officials love to use the buzzwords transparency, trust, and tree protection, but they are empty words and are replaced by five other T words like theater, portraying yourselves as caring, responsible representatives like you're one of us when your orchestrated statements and votes prove otherwise. The juvenile manner of presenting proclamations detracts from their significance and also demonstrates tarrying, wasting valuable meeting time, also seen in the Q&A of town halls when you bloviate to run out the clock. Treachery and deceit, concealed NDAs and memorandums of understanding, delayed public record requests, and fees in lieu of to circumvent policies. Thievery, inflating taxes and fees under the guise of promoting public safety, eminent domain abuse, unlawful confiscation of property, like I saw at another town, even though the property owner declared he had a deed to his land. You towns are all the same, but Apex is at the peak. Since these fall under the abuse of power umbrella, we now have tyranny. Town Council meetings must be

restructured. Foremost, obeying the people's voice. Our First Amendment guarantees the right to assemble. Public forum should not be limited to 36 minutes when you have um in the past been hours on proclamations, which takes away from the people's business on matters that can negatively impact their lives. Forums must involve back-and-forth discussions regarding issues of concern, revealing the decision-making process, and how the town justifies them, so that your constituency can actually consent. Most consent agenda items have not been routine. Therefore, non-routine agenda items ought to be limited to two or three, open to debates, especially for rezoning, annexation, eminent domain, UDO amendments, and creative bookkeeping. You say that may slow our progress, but slowing the process is exactly what's necessary. This abuse of power is due to lack of accountability, but accountability is coming. That's it. Happy Independence Day.

Thanks for speaking tonight. Stephen Valentine.

I just want to say um good evening to the council, the mayor and the council, and thank you for letting me share what's been going on in Stoneglenn Stoneglenn Apartments for the last 7 weeks. First, I want to start off some of my views here represent people in building eight that I spoke to. So, it's not 100% my point of view. And I'm not here to rock the boat. I'm just going to tell you what happened, and it's a very sad story. Also, I had surgery on my left eye, so I have trouble seeing my notes. I won't get my eyesight back until the end of August. So, please bear with me. So, um

I'm just The story starts on May 3rd. I went to go throw the garbage out, and I noticed 10 cars were broken into on the side of building eight. This is in Stoneglenn. So, I go inside, and I call the police at 12:01 a.m. Now, it's May 4th. And I inform them that 10 cars were broken into. Um but and they uh said, "We'll send somebody out." At 2:08 a.m., which is approximately a little over 2 hours later, they called me and asked me to come outside. I was already in bed. I go outside, and uh B. McKinney was the officer in charge, and my police report number is 26001432. And they sent two cars from Apex and one from Cary. Then, when they saw all the blood in my car, they sent a forensic car from Cary. So, at the end of the day, it was two cars from Cary and one from Apex. Um so, they asked permission to take the blood swatches, which I gave them permission. And then, the police also informed me after they left um Stoneglenn, they went to that um apartment building walking distance called the Village of Broadstone, which is walking distance from Apex and um Walmart. Um the police told me be- they took so long to get there because they were chasing them in a car. The car was stolen and the kids jumped out. So, they went on foot. They did catch one kid. He was up on the 17th. They let him go because he's a minor. They said unless he commits murder, we have to let him go in the state of North Carolina. So, uh police also told me, "Oh, don't worry. We called the parents." If a kid's out at 1:00 in the morning going to apartment buildings, breaking cars, and he has school the next morning, what control do the parents have? That was like a joke to me. So, we called the parents. That's like doing nothing. But anyway, so um

[sighs]

So, then at May 4th at 11:11 a.m., I looked on the internet to get the mayor's number to leave him a message.

And someone picked up the phone. I was on the phone with them for 9 minutes and 6 seconds at 11:11 a.m. on May 4th. They told me to relay a message to the mayor. I found out from Alan Coleman, the mayor never got the message, which is very sad. Um then um

[clears throat]

I I also left a message for my leasing office on May 4th. They never called me back, so I went there. And their attitude is, "Hey, we're not responsible for the parking lot, and we're very busy." So,

It's about time you Time is up. I'm I'm sorry. You have three minutes.

even get to the

I'm sorry.

I explained I'm talking for some- someone else for 3 minutes.

We may bring you back later. Thank you for

Huh? I can't hear you. I'm sorry.

Sir, we may bring you back, but thank you for your time. We got to rotate through the list.

What did he say?

We got to rotate through the list, so you're you're

Yeah, uh so the bottom line is they came back on 12th and 13th, and they hit 43 more 44 more cars.

We'll talk to you after the meeting. Thank you so much. Antoinette Porter.

Good evening, Council. Good evening, neighbors. On Saturday, June 13th, I had an ER physician

[clears throat]

tell me my body may contain the fatal rabies virus. I received this breathtaking, pit-in-the-stomach diagnosis because while walking along Huge Street, I was attacked by an animal. A leashed dog, barking to announce my arrival, and being willfully ignored by its owner, jumped at me and bit me. While the assault lasted seconds, the suffering caused by the animal,

animal owner, and system failures continues. The attack launched an ordeal that included an urgent decision for preservation of life with injected toxins or possible death. Burden of locating [clears throat] the dog owner, engaging law enforcement for right action, and learning current animal control and public safety ordinances and behaviors, and sure the peak of good living holds more true for animal residents than human residents. My body, my safety, my household have been violated. Trust in my community and public safety institutions has been broken. My attack can serve as a catalyst for the Apex City Council to do better. To ensure public Excuse me, public safety within its boundaries, Apex should consider utilizing public safety funds to establish its own animal control enforcement, rather than relying on overburdened, short-staffed Wake County Animal Control, whose actions reflect on Apex. And those actions and behaviors might not want not might be how Apex wants to be known and seen. At the minimum, the City Council should enact an animal control ordinance that employs fines and charges meaningful enough to incentivize responsible animal ownership. Additionally, public safety monies could establish a digital animal registry for

tracking animals' health and location when attacks occur. In the case of my attack, this would have prevented my husband, Jeffrey, risking his safety going door-to-door to locate the animal owner. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Ms. Porter, for speaking. Elizabeth Bruner.

Hello, I'm Elizabeth Bruner, 306 Hinton Street. As you've heard me say before, I'm a lifelong bus rider, proud to be a bus person. I love Go Apex. I'm glad that routes are expanding twice an hour. Go Triangle is going to send BO, send us up a Highway 55. Nonetheless, we're also having problems with safety on board. I'm here to share something that all of you could fix this very week. I'm going to plead with you to end the bus detour. Currently, Go Apex is being forced down the Salem Street Great Construction Zone. That means nine valuable bus stops have been eliminated for a long 11-month period. I lost my home base bus stop and my second best alternative bus spot. All passengers lost access to the best budget shopping intersection Apex Peakway at Laura Duncan. We lost access to Food Lion, to Lidl, to Dollar Tree, and the thrift store so the bus could go through a construction zone. Forcing the little Apex bus over the railroad tracks and through construction means that the likelihood of delays are exponentially higher. Sometimes the bus is really lucky and the drivers try to stay away from barriers, which means they creep along at their normal pace, which is just 20 mph. But on weekdays, the bus is likely to be very late and then late again loop after loop because of the construction zone. As a result, drivers then are forced to double their

speed. Our poorly designed little Arbok bus vehicle cannot handle 40 to 50 mph. Some bus drivers yell hold on. Then that faster bus rattles and sways and bounces and throws riders out of their seats. Not all the time, but when we're really behind schedule and forced to ramp up. There's a pair of Holly Springs residents who make videos about transit and in a recent video about Go Apex, they laughingly yell "airborne" when they're tossed out of their seats like a roller coaster. Airborne. And it's funny when you're watching it, but these are young able-bodied men and we have vulnerable Go Apex passengers, the elderly and the youngest. They're at the greatest risk when thrown upward. Every mother and baby pair that I've seen on an Apex bus was coming from a food pantry. The stroller was stuffed with donated groceries. It's hard to get that pair and their stroller up the bus, but then imagine we're behind because of construction, we're behind because of loading, and the bus driver starts going faster. Airborne, but there's a baby on board. I'm pleading with you to stop the detour, to let the bus go back to its regular route, to let the bus driver slow down, and make sure that all passengers are safe. Thank you.

Thanks for speaking. Phil Welch.

[cough]

Good evening, mayor, council members, staff, and neighbors. My name is Phil Welch. I live at 1471 Big Leaf Loop in Apex. I was shocked by a recent presentation

on Raleigh's housing situation. The talk indicated that Raleigh expects to add about 400 affordable homes per year in the next 5 years. That's the good news, except for the fact that Raleigh's affordable housing plan estimated that the city lost about 4,700 affordable homes per year over the past several years. While Apex has not lost affordable homes on this scale, I know that many of our naturally occurring affordable homes are being replaced by larger, more expensive homes, especially in the neighborhoods around downtown. In September 2024, scores of advocates came to a council meeting to point out the need to protect the residents of Apex's manufactured home communities. Losing any one of these communities would mean losing about 100 affordable homes. As a town goes through the process of updating its long-range plan, Peak Plan 2055, we should consider preserving the affordable homes in all of our manufactured home communities. These communities provide affordable homes to many of our essential workers, including retail clerks, landscapers, construction workers, and healthcare workers. As we found out during the COVID pandemic, these essential workers made sure our grocery stores, nursing homes, construction sites, and other basic services continued during the pandemic. If these workers are displaced to other towns and counties, their ability to provide these basic services in Apex will be compromised. We're seeing that happen now as the residents of the Chatham Estates manufactured home community in Cary have been forced to leave the affordable homes where they've lived for 10 years or more and serve the community. Provision should be made in Apex's Peak

Plan 2055 to preserve Apex's manufactured homes as naturally occurring affordable homes. This will require a specific classification in the Peak Plan to maintain the affordable homes in these communities while allowing the improvement of the homes. I request that you issue instructions to Apex's long-range planners to take this action. This is an important opportunity to show the neighbors in our manufactured home communities that we recognize them as valuable members of our community. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Mr. Walker.

[cough and clears throat]

Jackie Ayala.

Good evening, mayor and town council members. Uh it's good to see all of you again. Um as you know, my name is Jackie Ayala with Habitat for Humanity Greater Raleigh. I'm here like Phil to ask you tonight to um protect our neighbors in manufactured home communities as the town develops its new comprehensive plan, the Peak Plan 2055. Um right now several of the draft scenarios for the Peak Plan presented on the public input webpage would designate manufactured home communities as primary or potential growth areas. We're concerned that this designation would increase that displacement pressure we've been concerned about for a long time on the residents who live in those communities. Um unfortunately for the estimated 1,100 residents that live in those three manufactured home communities in Apex, there are virtually no housing options at their price point either in Apex or really in in Wake County. Um so and if so with that if these residents are displaced from the existing community where they live here in Apex, they will have virtually nowhere to go. Habitat understands that the town may prefer development principles that would allow for more connectivity. We also like that. Um we want more transit infrastructure and focused growth areas,

but we do respectfully ask that you reconsider any plan that puts further displacement pressure on our most vulnerable neighbors, many of whom have been as you all know in the community for decades. Um and like Phil said, in 2024 we presented you the council with a letter from over a dozen faith leaders in the community along with thousands of petitions uh petition signatures from Apex residents that asked you to find a way to preserve those manufactured housing communities as affordable housing. Um and for the new new council members, we're happy to share that those materials with you as well. Um You also heard from residents from those manufactured home communities who shared with you that Apex is their home. Uh we hope that you consider a way to preserve these homes in the new Peak plan. If redevelopment of these areas remains a priority for the town, we hope we ask that you allow only allow redevelopment for affordable housing that is both uh financially and practic- practically accessible to the current manufactured housing community residents. We would be happy to discuss any of this with you, any ideas that you have or any ideas that we have. Thank you very much for the time and the opportunity to comment.

Thank you so much. All right, Karen Ziller followed by Fran Hudson.

Thanks. Good evening. My name is Karen Ziller, uh 303 Interior Court, Apex. First, I wanted to say that I'm grateful for the bit of relief and hope we've gotten from the pavers being put in on the current side of the construction and for the period of night hours for the construction. Um but I would like to clarify that we're not just advocating for our side of the street in terms of potential alternatives to the pea gravel sidewalk path. We should now be looking towards what can be done for the other side of the street as it begins within the next month or two. Potential alternatives to make it more accessible and less destructive could be tarp mats or a spray to seal and lock in the pea

gravel. As for the Seaboard Street, uh many residents and residents from nearby towns that have been around the downtown area for years and decades are probably well aware of the cut-through little detour you can take with Seaboard Street. And that alone should be enough proof that people should that people often take advantage of cutting through there at excessive speeds. It's evident that this construction project has exacerbated this problem and that's why it ought to be addressed with speed bumps speed bumps, excuse me. And I think a police officer stationed there collecting speeding data is not an accurate measure since people will be slowing down because of perceived police presence, which could ultimately be a waste of time for the police officer. Last time I spoke, I mentioned something about an interactive survey so we can hear from the people themselves as we go about these project proposals. But I also find it beneficial to have an ongoing active discussion thread about these things, whether it be through a series of surveys or maybe additionally some more Q&A public events along the way. I genuinely feel that we could have discuss and consider the potential issues of running into problems that in turn cause delays for this project and we could have come up with a proactive approach for how the con- contractor team would recover for the lost time and abide by a structured plan through a contract. Additionally, we could have discussed the kind of pathway surface we would prefer to have and put those alternatives into the budget accordingly, especially with a now 6.2 million budget. In retrospect, the cost of the tarp mats or the spray discussed above would be less than 1% of the cost of the entire project. Lastly, we could also gather first-hand experiences from those who have driven through or parked back in the Seaboard Street over the years and recently. I hope we can better come together and work together as a community and truly be the peak of good living. Also want to say that my good friend and colleague uh Sawyer cannot be here tonight cuz she's working, but I'm very grateful for our our dynamic duo team. Thank you.

Thanks for speaking tonight.

Hello. Franhauser. Um Hudson, sorry. Franhauser Hudson. Um I actually ran across a Supreme Court decision today that came out and it's talking about property taxes, which is really interesting. Um, it's Pong versus Isabella County and it was focused on just compen- compensation after a tax sale, but it really gets interesting at the end cuz Justice Thomas actually expands that and he talks about how the the takings clause, um, which necessarily prioritizes homeowners property rights over the government's interest and and efficiency and public necessity. That the law of the land postpones even public necessity to the sacred and inviolable rights of the private property. And that came from Kelo. So, this brought in Kelo, which is about eminent domain, which is interesting as well because um, the the information from that, um, is property is natural fundamental, um, right. So, the principal aim of society is to protect individuals in the enjoyment of those absolute rights, which were vested in them by the immutable laws of nature, including the rights to of private property. Since Kelo was five to four, I'm wondering if that's a pre- preview of them overturning that, um, and kind of putting stricter restraints on eminent domain. Um, but this was about property taxes and um, the owners actually came at the the county and said, "Well, you sold my property for less than half the what it was worth, but the taxes you were trying to charge weren't even valid in the first place." Um, so it's it's a really interesting case and I think everybody should read it. Um, the, let's see, Justice Thomas, actually the very last thing that he wrote was "What they did to these people was wrong." And in his initial view, it's likely unconstitutional.

So, the constitutionality of things is really coming to light and the people are learning a lot more about the Constitution and what it protects. So, I just wanted to let y'all know ahead of time because when this actually comes through and when people all realize what the towns and the municipalities and the counties can take from the people or tax the people on, um it's going to flip everything. So, your taxes that you're talking about raising, you know, the 1.75 cents, that's a lot of that will go away. So, I'm just, you know, saying you'll need to really restrict the spending and cut out all the fluff because one day you're not going to have any to spend. Thank you.

All right, thank you for speaking tonight. That is the last speaker signed up, so we'll go ahead and close the platform. Um Mr. Coleman and your team, thank you for the digital sign-ups. This makes things a lot easier for me. All right, we're moving on now to public hearings. We have public hearing one, rezoning case 25, CZ-23, Horton Park PUD amendment. Mr. Joshua Killian. Good to see you this evening.

[clears throat]

All righty, good evening everyone. Joshua Killian here with the planning department, here to represent to present rezoning case 25, CZ-23, Horton Park PUD amendment. Um this rezoning is located in the southeastern area of Apex, just south of Jesse Drive, between 1010 Road and East Williams Street. Uh the two parcels considered as part of this amendment total around 16.96 acres. Uh both parcels are currently vacant and pretty well vegetated.

The parcels that are both currently zoned plan unit development conditional zoning and were approved for this zoning um for this zoning with the Horton Park PUD in 2018. Uh beginning with this western parcel here, the adjacent zonings um Sorry. Uh this parcel to clarify and for the future it's going to be referenced as zero Jessie Drive or pod five in upcoming sections of this um of this presentation. While this other parcel is addressed as 8252 Smith Road and will be referenced as pod six. So, pod five has adjacent zonings of medium density conditional zoning to the west and then on all other sides is bound by uh the plan unit development of Horton Park PUD with Horton Park Drive on its eastern boundary. And then uh pod six or 8252 Smith Road has adjacent zonings of plan unit plan unit development conditional zoning on all sides except for the north here, the east here and the south here where it is uh rural residential and on all of those rural residential parcels they're currently single family homes developed on each one. The proposed zoning is still going to be plan unit development conditional zoning and the impetus of this zoning amendment are for um a few zoning conditions that relate to the improvements of the surrounding street network and unit caps that were described in section 12 which is titled public facilities and section 17 which is titled phasing in the pud text. Um, the phasing in section 17 of the pud uh directed many of these improvements

that are listed previously in the pud text as section 12. Um, and phase one of this has a unique count of a maximum of 250 residential units. And currently 200 and Okay, there we go. These slides were a little out of out of order. Um,

[clears throat]

currently 247 have been platted within the subdivision, which you can see on the map here. Continuing to this slide, um in the current section that states phase one improvements. Um, these are the improvements that have been currently either complete or or are in the process of being completed. That is the construction of Horton Park Drive, the connection of um Cobblestone Chase Drive from the Marion subdivision to the Kimberly subdivision, a portion of the um east-west Glad Song uh in which also provided access to the Dezola Street parcels, and then the completion of Glad Song Drive to Smith Road, which is tied to this rezoning being approved. Here is a map of the of all the off-site improvements that are listed that have been complete, and I'll go through each one um to kind of detail why we are here for this rezoning amendment. Beginning with the US 1 northbound ramps at Left Turn Road, um this Horton Park pud project has already done the improvements of installing a dual left turn lane on US 1, which was part of the 2018 Horton Park pud rezoning, which you can see that completion here. Continuing down 1010 Road, you get to Reliance Avenue where they restriped the eastbound right turn lane and turn that into a through right lane, which has now been complete. Um this is the Jesse Drive at 1010

intersection. A westbound turn lane to the a west a westbound left turn lane has been complete. An eastbound right turn lane has been complete and then a northbound right turn lane has been complete from Jesse as well. Um additional offsite improvements include Smith Road at 1010 where you can see here there's been additional storage in this westbound left turn lane. Here at Smith Road and Stevenson Road, we have the eastbound left turn lane where they also had a condition to monitor for a traffic signal at this intersection. If you've driven there in the past roughly year, you'll notice that there is currently a traffic signal there, so they've also installed that at this intersection. Here this is the Kobe Chase Drive improvement that connected Kimberly and Marion subdivisions. Along with that condition, they were also um tied to monitoring the intersection of East William Street and Stray White Avenue to ensure that um no traffic signal is warranted there. So, that is currently being done during this process. Again, that Smith Road um and Dezola Street connection, Glad Song Drive, as you can see in this box, would continue to Smith Road. And at such time, the offsite improvements for the southbound right turn lane um to access the Dezola Street parcels would um would come into play. And they're also committed to um preventing any new driveways on Dezola since it is a collector street. The proposed only conditions in section 12 that you'll see um in this plat amendment shows uh ins- installation of a traffic signal at Jesse Drive and 1010 Road prior to platting more than 250 residential units. Um you might notice that this is tied to

250 units. They're asking for an increase in the number of units to be complete before other improvements are done, but this completion this intersection need to be complete before they could plat any additional units. So, this is basically them committing to that before they're even putting anything new in the development. And there's um 50 additional units in phase two of the PUDs uh street network improvements that caps 50 additional units. Um right now that would be 300 total units within the development, but that was tied to the completion of NCDOT project U-5825, which is also known as the 1010 widening project. As many of you know, the 1010 widening project has been deprioritized in the state transportation improvement program. And so, um in 2018 it was online to basically be in construction or complete by now. So, the developer used that to gauge all of those improvements along 1010 and in the rest of the network. Um with that being understood that this project may not happen for another decade at least. Um that's why they're asking for the additional 85 units to be platted today. And then moving that 50 additional units on top of that still tied to this completion. So, that condition that reads 50 additional units will remain 50 additional units on top of the 85 that they're requesting for the phase one improvements. So, that condition would read that no more than 50 additional lots or 385 total units um could be platted prior to the additional through lanes associated with the 1010 road widening project. And these are just a snapshots of the three items that I spoke about earlier that are not currently complete. That's the completion of Gladsong Drive, the turn lane off of Smith Road onto Gladsong Drive, which would also include

limiting the driveway access for the homes that are on Desola to not have direct access to Gladsong. They currently do have access to Gladsong, and that's their means of egress now. That's the monitoring for the stoplight at Straywhite Avenue and East William Street, and then the installation of a of a stoplight at Jesse Drive and 1010. With that, planning staff recommends approval of the conditions as offered by the applicant, and um

[clears throat]

Okay, let's go back a little bit. And this is in line with the current 2045 land use map, which identifies this area as medium-density residential. And the applicant held two neighborhood meetings on November 14th and on March the 23rd, and both of those agenda both of those reports are on your agenda. And this rezoning case was exempt from meeting with the Environmental Advisory Board, as there are no changes to buffer conditions or CA conditions, and items like that.

[clears throat]

And Planning Board did unanimously recommend approval of this rezoning with the conditions as offered by the applicant on June 8th. All righty. Um and we found that this proposed rezoning is reasonable and in the public interest, as it will allow the platting of lots and construction of homes within the subject properties pod five and pod six based on the results of a revised traffic study. Um additional conditions have been provided to ensure that continued phasing phased improvements with the development of Horton Park pod while continuing the limitation on uh residential density prior to the completion of the 1010 road widening project. If you all have any questions, I'll be happy to answer and the applicant is also here for with the presentation.

Thank you for the presentation. Great

job. Any questions for Mr. Killian?

[clears throat]

Uh

Right.

Yes, sir. Uh I was uh two questions. The first you you mentioned that one intersection being monitored uh to see if a traffic light is warranted. So, would they be required to construct that traffic light if they determine it's warranted?

Yes, I believe so. I believe it straightaway, yes.

Okay, that intersection's going to be restricted as part as HL007, which is starting construction next year. Um so, it'll be a moot moot point.

Thank you.

So, why monitor it?

That was just That was a condition from the previous rezoning that they were still that that they were still actively

Yeah, that that sounds to me it's going to be right in

Right out.

Right in, right out, right?

[laughter]

So, check mark on that.

Got you. So, take a look at it.

[clears throat] [laughter]

They were looking at it. Um uh the 1010 light.

Yes.

So, can you give us a history as to prior to this commitment for them to construct a light? Is there any other commitment or project that would provide the light? Is that involved in our Jesse Drive project to to provide a light there? Does anyone know?

I'll bring Jessica back.

Getting my steps in.

Yeah.

Um DOT would not allow signalization or consideration of signalization at this intersection until this part of Horton Park was um completed um to meet the signal warrants.

Okay, so it's not part of our Jessie Drive road project.

Correct.

There's currently no plan to provide the light there. So this is a net new commitment from the developer to put a new light there, otherwise we wouldn't get it.

Yes.

Okay.

Based on existing conditions will be what the town's plan for Jessie Drive is at that intersection.

Great. Thank you. This is really cool.

Can we go to that 385

units?

Okay. Um so like the total is the total units is 385, right? And so um the you already constructed, you know, um the phase one, right? The homes. And you're putting another 250.

So

Before you you're putting another 250 homes, you're you have to, you know, uh you propose to install the traffic light at the Jessie Drive.

Yeah, so currently there are 247 homes there, right? Before they can add three more to reach the 250, they would have to put in that light at Jessie Drive.

Okay.

And this this cap is only in relation to the 1010 road widening project. Um that's not the maximum units for the entire development. Uh there are other conditions that tie to other uh portions of this. Um it's there's not a specific unit count. It's based on different densities, based on different development scenarios. Um as I had mentioned before, pod five and pod six um there's already an approved subdivision plan for this parcel, which is pod six. Um and there's not one currently for pod five. So, with this, they can add what's already been approved in this area and then provide a new subdivision plan for this section to get up to that

385

385 if the 1010 road project moves forward by the state.

If not, then you cannot.

If not, then they can Yes.

Okay. Thank you.

Uh my question was about the stop light, so it's already been answered. Thank you.

Um my question is about the extension of um Gladsong.

Yes.

So, that was a phase one requirement that has not been completed, correct?

Yes. And that has not been completed

because mainly because for them to extend this, they would really need to get these lots platted for us to sign a subdivision plat and accept that right-of-way. So, they could have extended it, um but it just would've been pavement sitting there for not really any reason. So, they've held off on extending this all the way out to wait until they can actually get these homes subdivided and platted to then make that final extension to complete the internal network on their site.

But there's homes to the north that could potentially benefit from this completion, right? I'm not understanding your comment.

Yes, technically they they would benefit. They would benefit. But that's what the Horton Park Drive um this Colby Chase Drive connection, that's what all the most of those other improvements were phased through understanding that this might be one of the final improvements. After they've completed the Jessie Drive portion that they've completed, um to finish that out to get to 1010, things like that.

So, it's part of the commitment on that that section will be completed as well?

Yes, this section will be complete when they when they're able to get more than three additional units. Because their approved subdivision phase has more than three units in this area. So, for them to plat that plus the additional to go above the 250, that that would all be included in in one subdivision plat or one improvement.

And so, how do we get from 250 to 335 to 285?

5.

So, where did the 85 come from? It's like we're saying, okay, like you know, another 50 units can be built if there's a light on Jesse Drive and 1010. And then another 85 units can be built today based on what?

So, an additional 85 units can be built today based on the revised traffic study that was complete before this

application came in.

But those were all much further off site. All right. So, the that traffic still needs to traverse 1010 Road in order to get to some of those improvement areas.

Can you rephrase that question for me one more

So, these the improvements that you're showing here, a lot of those are off site from this development.

Correct.

The common thread here is that 1010 Road still is kind of the the bottom neck here.

Yes.

So, even though we've might we might have added another lane on the ramp onto US1, we still need to get to that improvement over 1010, which has not been improved yet.

Yes. And so, the the amendment is to at this point allow 85 additional units to be added. That would include the completion of Glatson here. And then that also includes before they can even contemplate that idea, adding that stop light at Jesse Drive. All of these other offsite improvements were tied to different phases of what's existing now. So, that Glad Song improvement is tied to the remaining homes on that portion. And everything else was basically diagrammed out based on the other improvements that have already been done and the other homes that have been added. The 385 unit cap that you're seeing in that condition is 50 additional units beyond the 85 added now. But, that's only tied to the completion of the full 1010 widening project. So, the state would still need to do this project to for them to get to that total of 385.

So, really the only ask Go ahead.

Just a little bit of clarification. Um I don't know which one was the overall one.

That one.

This one, yeah. Um what brought this

about was a reassessment of the area once the connection um from Horton Park to Jessie Drive to Production Drive was completed to create another point of access. So, instead of having to get out onto 1010 and try and make your way up 1010, there are opportunities to reach um either interchange going taking up Production or Pristine Water over. Um and then again the the connections down to the south at Colby Chase. So, it just provided them a little more connectivity that wasn't there in the original study.

Okay, let me ask the question differently. So, 1010 is a bottleneck, right? And so, what that's why part of this project is contingent on the widening of 1010. So, 1010 hasn't been widened. Okay, we have these like some of these intersection improvements. Does that Is that enough relief to warrant another 85 units?

That's what the traffic study concluded. And so I think that kind of I left this out cuz this isn't really a part of the Horton Park, but yes, the production drive at the time of this original rezoning did not continue all the way south. So these industrial developments have added production and have now connected all the way to Horton Park Drive and Jesse, which then leads them through Pinnacle Park to get to Classic Lufkin. You can get Lufkin into either side without having to necessarily get onto at Jesse Drive.

Okay, I'm there. Thank you.

[clears throat]

Any other questions for Mr. Killian? All right, hearing none. Want to hear from housing real quick and then we'll go to Mr. Farrell.

Uh good night, council. Eric Sanchez, senior housing specialist. So fundamentally housing agree with the the development. Um we think it's a good project nonetheless and we appreciate the recommendation. Fundamentally, the

applicant is asking for relief. Relief from conditions that were agreed to in 2018. And based on that relief, we think that it is just right that council consider what policies was implemented and agreed to with respect to the um with respect to affordable housing. And so it is a recommendation that there should be some level of affordability towards these relief um housing unit that is going to be proposed. Whether that number is 85 or 135 units, there ought to be some consideration by the applicant with respect to the relief of this um condition that they had signed onto.

Okay. Was this discussed with the team before? I mean but with the developer.

Yeah, we had a meeting with the developer. I believe they are attorney for the developer. Um and it was noted in the in the um in our system that we would leave the issue open as an unresolved issue with housing.

Okay. Thank you.

So, yes, the comment was made in the review in the staff review process. Um, the applicant did take note of it, opted not to include that in this as there's no increase in density. So, yes, that rec- that recommendation was made based on housing staff, but I do not believe that it was discussed. It was not discussed with myself in the room, but the comment was made, yes.

What was the original affordable housing commitment?

There was none. I don't believe we had an affordable housing policy in 2017 or 2018.

Yeah, that that that that's original looks like it predated our affordable

Yes. Yes. [snorts]

So, the question is, do we retroactively impose our current affordable housing plan on or do we have

No, that's I don't believe that that's I don't believe that that's necessarily the the question.

Ms. Newman.

Uh, thank you, Council. No, we're not asking for a retroactive application. We are only asking with regard to this change that's being made because this is still considered a rezoning, and so this was only we're only proposing that it be applicable to either the 85 or 135 units that are being asked to be added to the development. So, it's only with regard to those units that we're asking for the affordable commitment.

Okay. But, no affordable commitment was made.

No, they did not. They It was a it was left open. They acknowledged that we made that recommendation in in the system. Uh, they did take note of it, but opted not to make an offer.

But, it's approved initially, right?

Well, the initial many years ago there was no policy in place. So, that's why we're only confining this to what's being proposed today to expand the number of units that are being developed at that location.

Thank you.

Let's come back to it if you don't mind. We'll hear from Mr. Pero.

I just want to clarify that because there was no additional density being requested planning No additional units at all. Total Yes. No No additional units per per what was already previously approved. Planning staff did not seek to include this request in the staff report.

I understand. Any other questions for Mr. Killian before we move to Mr. Girl? All right. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor and members of council. Letitia Shapiro here on behalf of the applicant Star Log Group, 434 Fayetteville Street, Raleigh. Um also have with me Jeff Roach of Peak Engineering. We're fortunate to have Jeff here today because he has been on the design and of the site since the original application. And Kevin Dean of Kimley-Horn who is involved in the updated traffic analysis. So, Joshua did

a great job of providing a lot of information and just to be able to not be repetitive, I just kind of want to jump to the conditions and kind of see them in writing and how there there are different options. There was a phase Section 17 was phasing and there there are different options and this is option one where we are requesting the amendment for no more than 250 to be changed to that 335 and then phase two the no more than 50 additional residential lots. I do want to mention that yes, I was actually the person who had the conversation with that affordable housing and when we did have that discussion it was that we were not going to be offering any affordable housing due to there are no additional units that were being added to the total density. Um and Sorry. I just don't want to be repetitive cuz Joshua did such a great job of providing all the information for y'all. And as he noted that the proposal the proposed amendment remains consistent with the comprehensive plan and the land use designation identified in the 2045 land use map. The amendment is also reasonable and in the public interest as the platting of additional lots and construction of homes will be guided by that revised TIA. And the revised TIA will continue to ensure that the traffic improvements are appropriate are appropriately aligned with the proposed residential density supporting the orderly growth of the Horton Park So I thank you for your time this evening and again we're all here to answer any more additional questions that you may have and we would appreciate your approval of the rezoning. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions for Mr.

I have a question.

Yeah.

Um would you reconsider your affordable housing commitment?

I'm going to have bring Jeff Roach so he can kind of explain because he knows exactly all of the density and where. Thanks, Jeff.

Mr. Zegerman, Jeff Roach, Peak Engineering and Design by the way. Mr. Zegerman, this thing was done back in 2016 so I've been working on this almost 10 years now. At the time there is actually the max density is about 800 units for all of Horton Park. That includes an apartment complex area which is pod four on Jesse Drive. That's being held out at this point. There was no affordable housing condition then. We tried to minimize the amount of changes to the ordinance or to the pud amendment to purely restrict it to transportation changes. And and somebody hit on it earlier, I think it may have been Jessica. 1010 was supposed to be wide in 2020 and then 23 and then 28 and now it's it's not even on DOT's 10-year plan. So, um what we looked at was that when Production Drive made the southerly connection to Jesse Drive, that kind of relieved the traffic pattern of the bottleneck on 1010 that you alluded to. Um so, we're here tonight specifically as a transportation request to allow the additional units. I also want to point out real quick, um there are about 22 units south of Glad Song in that pod six which were originally designed and there are 50 lots on the townhome side that will complete. We basically have sketch plans for them. We have either approved plans or sketch plans on them, um ready to go. We are not asking for additional units. We're not asking for any other condition changes other than the transportation numbers to change. So, we we tried to be very specific in working with staff and we did not introduce any other conditions including affordable housing. So,

Let me be very specific then.

Yeah.

You're coming here asking for a relief because of conditions on the ground having changed. So, have our policies and standards, right? And so, yeah, I understand that in 2018 there was no such thing as an affordable housing policy, but in 2018 you also did not anticipate this, you know, road connection that is now leading you to to stand in front of us, right? So, I think it's more than fair

to meet at the line, right? And say, "Okay, like we give you something, you give me something." Right? And so, even though affordable housing was never part of the commitment, and we're not increasing the unit size or the the number of units, um I don't think it's unreasonable for this council to ask for an affordable housing commitment, you know, based on the policies uh that we do have in place today.

So, I do think it's unreasonable. We have a project that was approved in 2016 and oh sorry, 17 was the initial zoning, 18 was the second zoning. It came in and followed every single plan, every request. If you go back and watch the meeting minutes, which I don't even know if there were videos then, um we we anticipated production drive would eventually extend. You could see it on the plan. We actually came in here for a transportation plan amendment and I don't know if I can get back to the right Maybe I'll get Joshua up here. Joshua, I just want to like an overall aerial look quick. Just to show production drive. Yeah, that'll work. That's perfect. Um so, what you'll see is you'll see production drive and the three buildings here. Those are all brand new. We actually came in with a a transportation plan amendment with Horton Park to realign Horton Park Drive to swing it west so that it would align perfectly with production drive in the future if anybody built. When you guys approved or or the council approved Cash Corporate, Cash Corporate also approved production drive coming down the western side of of Cash Corporate that aligned with what we took into account back in 2016, 17, and 18 with our re-zonings. So, to say it's unreasonable, I think it's completely unreasonable because we did so much work back in 16, 17, 18. The builder has moved forward with a development, you know, pricing his homes that were very reasonable. We're not asking for additional units. He's looking to build the same units that he's built in pods 6, 7, 8 already on the project while he holds out on 1, 2, 3, and 4. He's going to do the same product across the street. So, he has his product built based on the cost of of buying all this

land and to put an affordable housing condition on top of him, I think is a financial burden that he was not ready he was never prepared for when he bought the project. He is also going above and beyond by going to DOT and getting the traffic signal approved at Jesse Drive. He can do it a heck of a lot quicker than the town could ever do it and the town pulled it out of the a one plan for Jesse Drive extension. The extension of Jesse Drive is also something to talk about. It stopped at the existing gas line, which is about right here, and I don't know, Mr. Zegerman, if you can see the the cursor. It stopped here. The town has always had Jesse Drive as a very vital link between 1010 and 55. We all know how important it is. Horton Park took on about a thousand or 1200 foot section of Jesse Drive to extend it, to dedicate the right-of-way, build half of the section of Jesse Drive to production. To the west of that is a Womble piece, which recently got rezoned, which is the next about a thousand feet. You've got a gap, and then you've got Jesse Commons sitting there, which is trying to figure out how to develop. If that can develop, you got three projects right there that basically built Jesse Drive with one one short section for the town. We are trying to bring improvements to the town. We've got a developer that's here that did those developments, and they're or or improvements are now asking for that transportation amendment simply to continue the same pattern of development. He's asking for your for your approval here. So, to put in affordable housing condition, I think is very unreasonable on him. So, just my opinion. We've had these discussions on affordable And and don't get me wrong. I am I I do we do affordable housing. We're doing a 20% affordable housing project on on Perry Road with another developer. So, I understand the request, um but I think here it's kind of coming last minute and surprise coming out of left field and surprising him. So, um just my opinion. So, appreciate I hope that at least answers your question. So. Any any other

questions for Mr. Roach or Mr. Chappell? All right. Thank you all.

Thanks, Ed.

All right. We'll go ahead and open up the public hearing for a comment. We have one person signed up to speak, Mr. Dwight

Wright.

Mayor Gilbert, town council members, planning department staff, my name is Dwight Wright, 8140 Smith Road in Apex and Smith Road will become Gladsong Road. I've stayed there most of my life and I've seen it change from Gladsong from hopefully. Uh the reason I'm here is based on just some verification on accessibility. I revisit the June 8th meeting, the planning board meeting and the planner there actually presented his case of accessibility along Gladsong as if no accessibility was going to be made. I have two residents there where Gladsong's going to actually be pulled and I actually sold my easement that I had based on a partition to the developer Pablo. So, I'm just here for clarification, verification that I'm going to be able to get to 8140 and 8134 Gladsong Road which is now Smith Road without having a lot of out-of-pocket expenses cuz I know roads are expensive to build but the elevation could come into factor. Um erosion control. I just want to make sure that I'm going to be able to get there based on the elevation and how they're going to build the road and verification based on what the planner said that I can get to my two lots. That's what it is. Uh just for clarification purposes. Thank you.

Thanks for speaking. All right. All right, the public hearing is closed for comment. We'll bring it back. Does anybody want to bring clarity to Mr. Killian

or Mr. Roach to that question?

I think Mr. Roach or Russell might be able to Yeah.

[clears throat]

Yeah, without without having all the details in front of me, but talking to Mr. Roach, my understanding is if if he only has access to that roadway, even though if typically a major collector wouldn't allow individual driveway access, but if that's his only access, then I think it's a lot of record by right. We would have to grant him driveway access to that roadway. Okay.

I got a question for you. All right. Council members. Deliberation time.

I'll roll in first on this one. So, I and to me the the the question really is coming around to the affordable housing aspect of things because this is all being driven by the fact that 1010's improvements are not going to be coming in anytime soon, and I think that was a condition precedent for the developer at the time back in 2016. And I think this is an interesting and a novel question for us because not that we're Well, I asked the question whether or not this was a retroactive application or whether we're just asking for the application as to these particular lots, and I know it's to these particular lots, but I think the larger question that we've got to think about is should we get another one of these sort of conditions in front of us? How are we going to essentially look at that question of the affordable housing question? So, it's not necessarily retroactive application. It's just a question of, you know, at the time this thing first came to us affordable housing wasn't wasn't a thing. It is now. It's a policy that we have. It's a policy that we pretty robustly want to enforce, and I think the real question is is this rezoning and the new conditions sufficient enough to basically bring what was done in 2016 into the future.

To me, the question though really comes down to how unique is this scenario? what do we need to think about the next time this comes in cuz the precedent is the thing that concerns me. And where I lie, where this kind of falls out on me is I like and appreciate and really want to thank our housing staff for bringing forward this affordable housing question cuz I I don't feel like well this is the last time we'll see that. Um but to me, when I'm looking at an equity aspect we're not seeing an increase in lot numbers. And that to me is kind of the the the that to me is kind of like the the key question. If we were increasing the number of lots I I would I'd feel a lot more comfortable saying, "Hey, things have changed on both ends. We're getting more you're getting more lots. We have a policy now. Seems as though the application of our policy to those additional lots would be a little bit more fair. I don't know if I'm there on this one. I I mean by by all means, I am not conceding that we should not, if we're confronted with the scenario again, that we shouldn't apply and ask for the application of our current affordable housing policy on them. To me, the the the line is going to be are we looking at an increase in lots? I I mean that that to me is where I'm I'm looking at the line. So, I'm I'm inclined to to support it with the conditions as it is.

[clears throat]

Thank you, counselor.

I I like your reasoning and and I'll I'll I'll let me clarify. I think that it's appropriate that when someone comes for rezoning that it does open up questions. Anytime we have a rezoning before us we get to ask questions. And I think um it's appropriate to ask should we do affordable housing here? And I think the answer to that question is going to depend on what change is being made and what benefit the public benefit is provided for that change?

Um and as as my colleague pointed out, if you're asking for net new units, I think it's pretty clear we're going to expect the new units to have the policy applied to them. There's no net new units here. Um but again, you know, looking at the the the project as a whole, do you want to see, you know, for the relief they're asking, does it provide a public benefit that would justify us approving it and giving them the relief that they ask? And in this case, we're getting a new light um at 1010 and Jessie that we weren't going to get before. Like that's really good. You know, that's that's great for people who live there. That's people who live the the the the residents of Horton Horton's Park and and of Miramonte, you know, down south and probably Knight's Play, too, trying to turn out of there. Sometimes it's going to be tough if you know, you get a red light down the road, it might make it easier to turn out of there. So, to me, this is a case where there's a net public benefit that justifies the approval of the rezoning, so I'll be supporting the project as is.

Um I think it's So, there's there's obviously a benefit to the developer here, too, right? Because under current conditions, they're stuck given the conditions that were set years ago. Um and I again, I I don't think it's unreasonable for us to ask for some public benefit. You know, yes, the light lights at 1010 and Jessie's definitely a benefit. Um but I think there's there's a little bit more that's that can be given here. And you know, I don't think that's a But you know, we didn't even specify a certain percentage or a certain number of units, right? We were just asking for any affordable housing commitment, and there's none. Um I want to stand with, you know, our current priorities. Um you know, which affordable housing is is one of our key priorities and I do think that I would like to see affordable housing commitment before I uh I will be supportive of this.

Thank you. I have a question, Josh, if you don't mind me asking, which is um

[clears throat]

and I won't quote you. I'm just looking for off the top of your head.

[laughter]

Uh off the top of your head, can you think of any other scenarios that are similar to this? Um where there and you might say, "Well, what specifically do you mean?" What I mean by that is is an application that's come in previous to our affordable housing strategy um implementation. Are are Do you Do you anticipate any others? And again, I I promise I'm not going to quote you. I'm just

Right. Yeah, I I don't I wouldn't say that I would anticipate any additional. I would say um one one area that this not to open a can of worms, so I do apologize for anyone in the room who's going to hear this.

the question.

But um for instance, as as a a a development large development like Viridia adds additional properties, right? It's not changing necessarily the density or the number of units, right? It may be It may be a net increase, but I'm not I'm not the planner for Viridia, so I won't speak to Viridia's entitlements. Um but in that case, would it be a net Would it be appropriate as they add maybe 5 acres to take the whatever density that might be prorated into that 5 acres and request an affordable housing condition there? I'm not sure what that answer is. I will say that for this project in specifically, um they one thing that that planning has looked at especially in transportation is all of other offsite improvements that they've done, which are costs that had to be recovered somewhere, right? They have solar conditions that are costs that either have to be absorbed by the property owner or whatever else. I've I've received a call

from the from the developer literally asking me, "Hey, can we get out of doing solar cuz no one wants wants to buy the solar for their house?" And I said, "No, because that's a condition that you're tied to, right?" So, it's one of those what where where's the line on what other rezonings that are going to come in? Any other planning developments that come in as 100 acres, add 5, 10 acres. That's that's a question. That's a legislative decision that you all have to make. So, yes, it could happen, but in this case

Awesome. Thank you.

That's not the case. It's the net The net increase is not the case.

Um my question's been answered. Thank you. I appreciate it. And um I I do want to say I don't think this is a right or wrong. I do think it's a matter of of philosophy. Um I appreciate my colleagues' um encouragement uh for applicants to um bring their projects into compliance for our affordable housing. However, um my next door neighbor colleague, I I I tend to lean that direction. And the reason why I say that I'm going to support this project with the conditions as proposed this evening is because I it seems to me like there was essentially a gentleman's handshake long before we initiated new things. And to your point, as you've just laid out about the solar conditions. Um and the fact that we're going to maintain those uh as part of that handshake. Um I I don't see I see this as hopefully an anomaly. And um I look forward to getting back to aggressive affordable housing strategies being built into these projects. So I I will be supporting it.

Councilmember Moore.

Yeah, okay. So the presentation is all about um increase and

improve the traffic, right? It's So before the three more houses added, you will put traffic, you know, uh signals at Jesse Drive. And after these three houses built built, you will you know, make connections to that Gladstone Road. Okay. And that 50 and 85 additional units, you have to wait until the um 1010 Road widening has done.

The 85 the 50, excuse me, the 50 85 with the stop light and Gladstone.

Okay.

Right. And then an additional 50 with the 1010.

1010 Road widening? So okay, I think I see the good um intention to improve traffic, you know, to um help the community.

And then I I just do want to note that this this is not a part of the presentation, that option two which was briefly referenced by Mr. Piro is that they the other commitment that was tied into the original approval is that they simply complete Jesse Drive from 1010 to 55 and then all of their units would be available. So if Jesse Commons comes in and then we're currently under under review for that uh light industrial project that was rezoned recently neighboring that the the medium density RCA. With those two coming in, if they complete those two intermediate sections, you have one section left. If the developer decides to do that offsite improvement, then all the units allowed through all of the densities can then be developed. So, this is this there's again no increase in in any of the unit numbers, simply letting them put more units on the ground um to move forward with the project.

Thank you.

Mhm. Yeah, you had something.

[clears throat]

Thank you. And not to keep everyone here too long. I like I always enjoy listening to my brother um Joshua. He's an exceptional planner. So, fundamentally, planning housing staff feels that the opening of a rezoning constitutes the opening of a rezoning. So, when council passed a policy for affordable housing, the affordable housing policy contemplated 10 units or more, not the addition of 10 units or more. The policy simply stipulates that 10 units. Now, what the applicant is asking for is relief. And relief in this case in time. Because if 10 10 was still prioritized for 10 years from now, they would still have to wait for 10 years before that uh amendment that that that condition could be met. There's they're now asking us to expedite or to relieve them from that request or from that commitment they made in 2018. In all fairness, in 2018 they had no idea that 10 10 would be deprioritized. But in all fairness to us, in 2018 we had no idea we would be in this position for affordable housing. And so, what we're asking or what we're challenging here, not just planning staff and us, but also what you're seeing within yourself as council members, is a truly fundamental and novel question. What constitutes the reopening of a rezoning and when do you then apply the policies that you've applied that you've adopted under conditional use rezoning? And effectively what housing staff is saying is that this does constitute some level of further consideration because the applicant is asking for a relief. And in this case, maybe yeah, fairly. They're not asking for the addition of more units. I give them that. They'll give us

some improvements. I'll give them that. But they're still asking for a relief in time. And if 1010 was still prioritized and it was 10 years old, they would have had to hold on to that 10 years. So they're asking us to give them relief. And that's what housing staff is saying. Well, should we then apply our housing affordability policy to that? Thank you. I rest my case.

[laughter]

We have an exceptional planner and exceptional housing specialist. You know, good job. Um I just want to offer this. Um it I'm definitely with you on the affordable. Sure. Take all the time you need.

Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. We will see this again. That is a guaranteed because there will be applicants that comes back for rezoning. There will be applicants that comes back and say, "Hey, this this isn't really working out for us. We want to modify our conditions this little bit or this condition is not in our favor or this is a burden. And it will maybe a burden, but it will come back again. So what council does could in potentiality set precedent. If you have a big development, whether it's working part, whether it's another development that wants to add 10 acres or wants to add 5 acres or wants to add 100 units, it's still a form of relief or a benefit. And we're saying or you guys are saying, well, how do you juggle that? At what point does your policy that you've adopted comes into play and at what point do we just hold on to what was agreed to 5, 10 years ago because we did not know better then. But ultimately, once they open the rezoning for a for once they open a rezoning, it's open and you can start having these discussion as long as it's a conditional use rezoning. So, I re-re-rest my case.

But since you stood up, you're going to answer this question. So, we're supposed to look at the question of the improvements we're getting in terms of

the traffic improvements, the hundreds of thousands of dollars that we're getting in terms of the lights, the lane improvements, and the work that they've already put in. You're certainly not asking us to disregard that.

Of course not.

So, when I look at this larger issue, I agree with you. We're going to see this again. And I do think that the real question then comes down to what's a bright line that we can draw in order to say, okay, when we do get these novel issues, what's going to be the thing that will allow someone to make a decision? When I look at a bright line, I think of it not only from planning staff side, but also from our side, which is you want to have something that makes it very easy for people to know that if you come in with this set of conditions, you should expect X, Y, and Z.

Which I actually

Because the precedent that you're asking us to look at and I think the precedent that it appears that we have a majority to go with here is if you want to come back with a rezoning with something you did in 2016, you better come back with a lot of cash and a lot of transportation improvements. Otherwise, you're not getting there. I feel like that's a decent I mean, I'm not going to lie. I'm going to take that precedent all day. And I'm a huge fan of our affordable I I mean, listen, this is the thing I've championed from the very beginning. But I also take a look at the question of what's our bright line and that's why I look the issue of units. Cuz to me that's a very easy bright line. Because if you know, 2016, the number of units that he basically was this unit the number of units that were being created the cost, the impact, the number is going to be significantly different than if you were to increase that now. Basically, more units now equals a lot more money. So, if someone's going to be making a lot more money and they're coming to us and they're not giving us a lot more money like transportation improvements are then I feel much more comfortable saying you're going to be held much harder to our affordable housing standards.

Fair. If if I mean I I agree with what you're saying this.

No.

[laughter]

The value the value the value of time is money.

True.

And what they're asking for is for us to give them a relief from time. Now, what what's that what

us money for that.

Precisely, but is that then sufficient enough to say we then disregard all of our affordable policy or do we then say what is a fair middle ground on that as well, too, as council member Seger man would have said?

But I don't see it as disregarding the affordable housing policy. We still want you to come forward

I got to jump in here. I got a point. I got I make a motion to approve three zone.

Hold on. Hold on. Yeah, that's cool. We'll take that [clears throat] motion. Thank you so much.

Great job, by the way.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's great job.

I do want to say thank you for the impassioned um case. I I really do appreciate it and you've got a good one, Marvin.

Great. Great discussion. I just want to say this um as far as drawing a line and and really I want to speak on collaboration. Like I just the surprise. I don't I don't know. I was I want to make sure the next scenario there's discussion before we get into the council chambers with the developer and everybody. Um I cuz it's not it seems to me you guys were not aware of the affordable housing. Okay. So, anyways, we got the motion.

Second.

Second, great. Any further discussion? All in favor, say I.

I.

Opposed?

No.

Carries 4 to 1. All right, thank you.

[clears throat]

Is motion to go to close session?

We got one more. We got one more.

We got one more. Sorry.

I'm not there yet.

I need

I need 4 minutes. How long is this going to take?

Wait.

It depends on my time.

Are we good?

I think we're I think

We're going to knock it out.

We're going to knock it out in 2 minutes. I believe it.

Only 2 minutes?

Okay.

Is [laughter] that okay?

All right. So, to my colleagues, the reason I added this on the agenda is for two reasons. One, we're about to take July off, and two, the short session is about to end. So, if we are going to take any action on the even-year election issue, this meeting is our last opportunity to

give clear direction to staff. We have given We have expressed interest multiple times. We put it on our legislative agenda for the past 2 years. We've passed resolutions saying we're exploring, but we've never really directly said to our lobbyists and staff, "Go do this. Make it happen, or try." And tonight, I I I asked this to be added because this is probably the last chance we'll have for for maybe 2 years, because I think next year we'll have the issue with an upcoming municipal election will be difficult to make that change. So, that's why I asked it to be added. In terms of the merits of it, after hearing the proposal from the Board of Elections a month ago, they mentioned there's multiple ways to transition. There's concerns and ways to do it both ways. After talking to some of my colleagues who also had some concerns, I think the compromise approach is the approach where we hold regularly scheduled municipal elections in '27 and '29, but we ask for them to be for 3-year terms, which will transition us to even-year elections starting in 2030. And that's the approach that I think does it gradually. It doesn't extend anyone's term. The voters are still in control at every point along the way. There's just differing differing terms as an alternative to to extending or or shortening existing terms. So, that's my recommendation and I I, you know, not sure this is going to go, but I know that this is probably our last chance to make a call. Uh so, I'm I'm going to make the motion in a moment and we'll see where it lands. Is there any discussion?

So, just quick question for Checkmate. They haven't weighed in on this at all. This this would be us directing them to strategize for this.

So, they have weighed in. They they've said that, you know, time is closing. So, if if it's a desire for you all to to do that, then we need to act now. Um it now it it's up to the General Assembly, you know, to to do what they do. Um but yes, they have weighed in.

Okay, just want to make sure.

Yeah, and that's clear for everyone listening and and to my colleagues that us making this motion doesn't actually

change anything. It's a request for the General Assembly to potentially change it cuz they control our schedules. We have to communicate officially that this is what we want to do and then and they pass a law or they don't.

And I think the other thing that we mentioned during the presentation that you all got from Wake County Board of Elections is just for those watching, this is not uncommon. You know, there are municipalities in North Carolina that are transitioning to even year elections. Um and so, there we have seen several bills filed in this session to this effect. So, it's it's not uncommon.

I was told there was another 30 municipalities that are switching this year through local bills.

I also wanted to just add a little bit of um uh a point of reference that we already have Wake County Board of Commission races right now establishing the new two at-large seats and that one term is for a four-year term and the other is for a two-year term because those are staggered. And so, I just wanted to point out that that's another example of a time when a body needed to implement a new uh policy for just one cycle to then um have a uh a consistency moving forward.

You got to transition somehow. There's no no way around it.

Exactly.

Um I'll say this. Um this has been one of our like legislative priorities for a couple of years. Um I do think that by kicking the can down the road by another year

[clears throat]

now we're in a municipal election year, which is not going to be great. Um so, if we want to act, it's either now or 2 years from now.

Yeah.

Um and I'd rather take uh you know, try to take this on now, see if we can find a sponsor in the general assembly. I do like the two 3-year terms as opposed to lengthening existing terms uh because the voters have chosen us for 4-year terms. And for us to tag on an bonus year, right, doesn't feel right to me. So, I'd rather shorten the next two terms and then get back on a 4-year term schedule

um for you know, once we're on even year elections.

Well, my preference is to not change. Uh but I you know, we've gone round and round about this um a number of a number of ways. If if the majority of the vote is to change, I do think that the three and three is probably the better way of doing it. But I think having our elections off-cycle uh is something that we should continue to do. We should maintain. It you know, we're not looking at a significant cost savings overall. We are looking at essentially throwing our lot into with the larger uh election cycles that take place every even year. And I feel like that loses a little bit of uh you know, uniqueness that we have as municipalities. But I understand where the council's going.

I would support what you just said. I mean, I'm not It is what it is, but um um but it it gets stronger. And that's something I don't really want to be involved with. Um if we go to even year, so just want to that to be on the record. But we are where we are. So is there a motion?

Yes, uh Mayor, I move that we direct the town clerk in coordination with the town's lobby legislative lobbyist to pursue legislation during the current charter session of the North Carolina General

Assembly to transition the town of Apex municipal elections to an even-year election cycle beginning in 2030. As part of this transition, the 2027 municipal elections for the offices currently held by Mayor Jacques Gilbert, Mayor Pro Tem Terry Mahaffey, and Council Member Anne Zigman would be conducted for a 3-year term expiring in 2030. The 2029 municipal elections for the offices currently held by Council Members Ed Raggy, Sumu, and Shane Reese would likewise be conducted for a 3-year term expiring in 2032, thereby aligning all subsequent municipal elections with an even-year election schedule.

All right, there's a motion.

I'll second.

Second, Zigman. Any further discussion? All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Opposed?

No.

All right, four to one. All right. Is there a motion to go into closed session?

I'll make that motion to go into closed session.

Second.

Second, Gray. All in favor, say aye.

Aye.

The motion carries. All right, closed

Was that quick enough?

I'll move to that.

Good.

Mhm.

[laughter]

It's right. Ready?

We are ready. Okay. All right, we got the business done.

Okay.

Thanks for being here.

Thank you. Thank you.

Is there a motion to adjourn until August?

Adjourn until August.

Second.

The left.

All those in favor say aye.

All right.

Aye.

Any opposed say no.

Amen.

Have a good summer.

Yeah.