Board of Commissioners Regular

Good evening. Welcome to the Pisgah Board of Commissioners meeting for June 8th, 2026. I will call the meeting to order. We'll start [clears throat] with a moment of silence. Please join. Thank you. Mayor pro tem Farrow, will you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance?

Will everyone rise for the pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

[clears throat]

Right. We have in front of us a regular agenda and a consent agenda. Are there any additions or changes to either? Take a motion to approve the agenda.

I moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Hunziker.

Second.

Commissioner Thurber, all those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. Any opposed? And I'll take a motion to approve the consent agenda.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Thurber. Is there a second?

Second.

Commissioner Hunziker, all those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. Up next we have a few ceremonial items this evening. Up first is a proclamation of Race Amity Day. I'll read that.

Proclamation recognizing Race Amity Day. Whereas Race Amity Day is observed annually on the second Sunday in June to recognize the inherent worth and dignity of every person. And whereas the town of Pittsboro upholds the enduring motto of the United States of America E Pluribus Unum, out of many one, as a guiding principle for unity and inclusion. And whereas Race Amity promotes understanding, respect, goodwill, and cooperation among all people regardless of race, ethnicity, or cultural background. And whereas communities thrive when all residents are valued, heard, and empowered to contribute to the common good. And whereas on Saturday, June 13th, 2026, a community celebration themed We Walk the Path Together will include a mindful musical walk, George Moses Horton Middle School festivities, and Race Amity Day celebration. Now, therefore I, Kyle Ship, Mayor of the Town Pittsboro, and on behalf of the Board of Commissioners, do hereby proclaim Sunday, June 14th, 2026, will be recognized as Race Amity Day in the Town of Pittsboro, and encourage all residents to promote understanding, respect, unity, and friendship throughout the community. Thank you. Up next,

Shonte Smith.

Um up next, we have a resolution for Juneteenth.

Which one is it?

I have I'll invite them up.

Wait, good.

We invite Melinda Marsh and anybody else from the Fairgrounds and Shonte Smith to come up.

The first one is T. So, this is the resolution recognizing Juneteenth and honoring four community organizing for a peaceful equity and Chatham County Agriculture and Industrial Fairgrounds. Whereas, Juneteenth commemorates June 19th, 1865, as the day when enslaved African-Americans in Galveston, Texas, were informed of their freedom more than 2 years after the Emancipation Proclamation. Reviewing that freedom proclaimed is not always freedom received. And whereas, Juneteenth stands as a day of remembrance, resistance, celebration, and renewed commitment to justice, equity, dignity, and full civic participation. And whereas, Juneteenth calls communities to confront the legacy of shadow chattel slavery and racial injustice in America with honesty, while honoring the current leadership, creativity, and enduring contributions of black Americans and whereas community organizing for racial equity for advances racial equity in Chatham County through civic engagement, education, cultural celebration, public dialogue, youth leadership, and collective action. And whereas since 2018, CORE has organized annual Juneteenth celebrations in Chatham County that gather residents, artists, educators, small businesses, families, organizations, and leaders in remembrance, celebration, and community formation. And whereas the Juneteenth celebration is held at the historic Chatham County Agricultural and Industrial Fairgrounds, founded in 1950 as the Chatham County Colored Agricultural Fair, and recognized as the last remaining black-owned fairgrounds in the United States. And whereas for generations, the fairgrounds have stood as civic and cultural ground where black residents built community, cultivated enterprise, preserved memory, strengthened agricultural traditions, and claimed joy amid exclusion and inequality. And

whereas the Town of Pittsboro recognizes that preserving black history is a public responsibility that strengthens prepares memory, deepens belonging, and advances justice. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the mayor and the Board of Commissioners for the Town of Pittsboro declare June 19th, 2026 as Juneteenth, and call upon all residents to reflect on the cost and meaning freedom, honor the heritage and contributions of black Americans, and participate in efforts that promote education, service, dialogue, justice, equity, and mutual respect. Be it further resolved that the Town of Pittsboro expresses deep appreciation to CORE, the Chatham County Fairgrounds, and all whose labor continues building a more truthful, connected, just, equitable, and inclusive community. Adopted this 8th day of June, 2026. Thank you for all you do.

Thank you. Can I get a motion to approve that resolution?

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets. The second?

Second.

Commissioner Foley. All those in favor, say I.

I.

Opposed? Great. Thank you. And we'll get some ceremonial copies of that out as well. Thanks. Up next, we have a resolution for Pride Month, June 2026. Commissioner Thorbahn?

This is a resolution recognizing Pride Month. Whereas all people are entitled to live with dignity, safety, equality, and freedom from discrimination. And whereas Pride Month traces its origins to the Stonewall Uprising of June 1969 in New York City, a pivotal moment in the struggle for civil rights and equal treatment for LGBTQ individuals. And whereas generations of LGBTQ Americans have contributed to our nation, our state, and our communities while often facing discrimination, exclusion, harassment,

and barriers to full participation in civic life. And whereas the progress achieved through decades of advocacy, courage, and public service reflects the enduring American principles of liberty, equal opportunity, and justice for all. And whereas Pride Month serves as both a celebration of the achieve achievements and contributions of LGBTQ individuals and a recognition that the work of building communities where every person is treated with respect and dignity continues. And whereas the town of Pittsboro is strengthened by residents of diverse backgrounds, experiences, identities, and perspectives. And benefits when all people are welcomed and empowered to participate fully in community life. Now, therefore, be it resolved that the mayor and Board of Commissioners for the town of Pittsboro recognize June 2026 as Pride Month in the town of Pittsboro and encourage all residents to reflect upon the principles of equality, freedom, dignity, and mutual respect to honor the contributions of the LGBT Q individuals throughout our history and to continue building a community where every person is welcomed, valued, and afforded the opportunity to to thrive. Adopted on this 8th day of June 2026.

Thank you.

[clears throat]

I got a motion to approve the resolution.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Hunziker.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Bonitz. All those in favor, say I.

I.

Any opposed?

Thank you. Up next, we have some information items and we have a report the report from the Boys and Girls Club and the town of Pittsboro financials. Any questions on those items? All right. Up next is citizens matters and we will

start with the manager's update.

I had one.

I did have one on the financials.

Yes, sir.

In that year, just one question. How do I know miscellaneous revenue when we go to my Can you explain that 101 minus on that? It's down on the page one of eight near the bottom, miscellaneous revenue.

On the summary report or in the

Right here.

income statement.

At Oh, okay. So, on the revenue side, when there's a minus it means we exceeded what we budgeted.

Where where did that come from? I guess what I'm asking.

Oh, so 116,000. We have had some additional payments in that we that I wasn't budgeting off the top of my head. I cannot tell you specifically, but I will get the that data to you.

Okay. I was just curious where that revenue was coming.

Uh

I don't know if it was fees or

It's not It's not fees. Um cuz fees are going to be captured in other line items. This can be um And it's not insurance.

Okay.

It's not 3M. We have a different line item for that. those are the enterprise grant funds.

We'll find out. We'll let you guys know. Well, we're we're not in the black, right? I've been getting that. I have a couple more.

Yep.

Number one, I know the ad valorem taxes have gone up. I know the the increase of the of our population has gone up, but not as much as the rate of the ad valorem. What What's the difference? What is it that caused the ad valorem taxes to go up 8

percent 8.35%?

You talk Is this on the budget or on the

Yeah, it's on the budget. We'll We'll We'll talk about it then. Yeah. My apologies. Well, at least you have it loaded locked and loaded. You can sleep. I'll ask you then.

Yep.

Jonathan.

Thank you. Uh so just a couple quick updates on the meetings that we have coming up for for June. Uh you got the joint meeting. That's with Pittsboro, Siler City, Goldston, and Chatham County. That is June 22nd, 6:00 p.m. here at the Ag Center, the mayors and chairs will give an annual update on what happened in each municipality in the county at that meeting. And then the town will be presenting on Scale Chatham, which is our initiative to kind of focus on entrepreneurship and the gig economy and how we can create an ecosystem to support that. So, staff and some folks from Riot will be doing that presentation to share that with the rest of Chatham County. Um, town hall public input session was last Thursday. We had a handful of folks come out. I think that was a good meeting. Everybody that was there seemed to enjoy the opportunity to give input and like what they saw. I will have that out to you all tomorrow and that will be the slides that were provided and then it will share the feedback. And then I'll clarify some points and then if you all feedback from those slides, you can just send that directly to me and we'll include that in our input. Um, annual stakeholders meeting for downtown is June 23rd at 9:00 a.m. at the Ag Center as well. Uh, you all are invited to that. I think that's 9:00 to 10:30 a.m. Uh, lastly, um, had a request for a Sanford Road update. The power has been installed. The crew that's going to install the actual street light, they're waiting on the the light itself and I was told this afternoon it'd be one to two weeks and that light should be up.

Is that light just going to be on one side of the street or both sides?

Just that corner.

Okay.

The light on the diagonal opposite

corner, that light is supposed to be upgraded to a higher wattage. So, then the whole intersection should be uh decently well lit and then we also were upgrading the uh area light in the ABC parking lot to a higher watt as as well to to get some more kind of ancillary light shone in that direction. So, we'll see how that does and if that doesn't work then go to plan C. Thank you.

Um, for my updates, the Central Pines Rural Planning Organization with DOT, that meeting is on uh Wednesday this week, so I'll be attending that. On May 12th, met with uh Senator Murdock with John Finn, so we just have a quarterly update scheduled um just to talk through some items with her and uh what's going on at the state level. May uh 24th, I went to the Memorial Day event in the Pop-Up Park run by the American Legion, so I appreciate them doing that and that was a really good event there. Uh May 31st, the Summerfest downtown, uh nice to have that down downtown on the streets again, so that was great event. And uh great weather as well. And uh then June 3rd, last week I think, uh I went to the uh Triangle Community Foundation put on a uh good seminar on housing affordability and so that really like filled the um Raleigh Convention Center and had a uh author come speak and a panel discussion and stuff like that, so it was really good um work there and a lot of representation from Chatham County with Habitat and United Way and and a lot of others, so that was good event. Uh Commissioner Horton Creek.

All right. Um, so this month I really focused on infrastructure, uh housing affordability, um economic uh opportunity and community engagement. I uh attended a presentation on the Tri River, well, actually we went out to the Tri River water expansion project in Sanford along with Commissioner Foley

and that was incredibly impressive and highlighted the significant investments being made to secure our long-term water future. I also attended the Home Builders Association discussions on making the math for um housing affordability also with Commissioner Foley. Um, we then met with Congresswoman uh Valerie Foushee's team. You know, supporting continued relationship building between the town and Congress. As part of my work with A-HEC, I attended presentations from Cary, Apex, Carrboro, and Wake County which provided insight on how surrounding communities are addressing affordable and work force housing challenges. I met with CORE and Web Square to discuss opportunities to strengthen black entrepreneurship in Pittsburgh. On the parks front, I attended the paired special meeting and then followed up with parks and rec director and the assistant town manager for a tour of our park properties. Also visited the soccer fields I think five times. Sometimes with Commissioner Foley and Bonnets and one time during the rain. And also met with nearby residents to hear concerns about lighting, sound buffers, and so on. Community engagement is also a top priority. I've hosted community commissioners coffee chat with Commissioner Foley where I think we had 12 residents come out who raised a range of topics going from parks to water, pickleball, concrete plant noise, and traffic congestion. Um and I met with town manager to discuss the their concerns. I've got some additional coffee chats planned with Commissioners Foley, Bonnets, and one coming up with Commissioner Thurber which we are excited to hold at Aromatic Roasters new digs in West End. Interest has also been expressed by members of Chatham County Board of Commissioners in participating as well which will hopefully provide residents

with broader opportunities to engage with both town and county leadership. And if anybody here would like to sit in on one, just let me know. I think they're a great way to reach out. Um I attended a candidate forum the climate fair at the plant, the 20th anniversary of the Chatham Marketplace, may there be 20 more years. Um First Sunday and SummerFest uh SummerFest knocked it out of the park. You did so good. Um also uh attended the installation of Clyde Jones marker. And I'm excited to be at Juneteenth on the 20th at the Chatham County Fairgrounds from 2:00 to 6:00, and I'd like to extend an invitation to my fellow commissioners to share the booth individually, of course, and to interact with the uh attendees. And finally, I'd like to just say happy pride to Pittsboro's LGBTQ community.

Thank you. Mr. Bonat?

Um thank you. Uh I do not have any particular updates, but just I'm so impressed with all of the events that you all have attended, and uh I attended several of them as well.

Okay, thank you. Mr. Farrell?

Uh nothing at this time, thank you.

Mr. Farrell. Uh Mr. Foley?

Uh last week I attended a lobby session at uh in Raleigh and met with the elected officials, uh Natalie Murdock's staff, uh Robert Reeves' staff, Allen Concell's staff, and um and uh Renee Price's staff. Uh all of us speaking about affordable housing, specifically uh specifically uh projects that that could be in coming in the future uh downtown Pittsboro or elsewhere. I also spoke uh in favor of we spoke. I was there with the uh associa- association of realtors in Chatham and Orange Counties. Uh I spoke in favor of uh accessible

dwelling units, and making sure that we are prioritizing uh affordable housing as the county grows, specifically Pittsburgh. Uh there's there's a dire need for housing below $300,000. So, that's we lobbied for. We also lobbied for uh um We also lobbied for uh green space in in those those very areas. Also uh uh I attended the HBA uh meeting with uh instead of Commissioner Huntsinger. And it was about uh how it was home builders and developers and listening to them in an exchange on what works and what doesn't work when they're building. It was a quite a great lesson to learn. How much does it cost if you delay for for 1 or 2 months? How much more expensive does it get? That that type of So, we learned a lot. Um with Commissioner Huntsinger, I was on a tour with at Tri River. Tri River is pretty cool. Uh We spent a great deal of efforts and and uh and dollars here in Pittsburgh to to create a safe water system, granular activated charcoal system. We got grants for it. And we went uh from questionable water to one some of the cleanest water in in the state. Uh so, I particularly focused on what Tri River was going to do. So, if we're going to get our water from Tri River instead of Sanford, what on earth are we getting down there? And we found out there are granular activated charcoal filtration systems that are set up that will be set up. The building's going up. And the really cool part about it, forward-thinking part about it, is they

have reserved a space in this enormous building to place filtration systems or other devices if there are other chemicals coming downstream that we're not identifying right now. So, they're actually forward-thinking with that, which which I really appreciate. So, we we will be getting our water from there, and I think we're in good hands with their filtration system. So, that's that was nice to see. And I think that's it for now.

Thank you. Mr. Thurber.

Um I don't have any updates, but I would like to take the time to thank the town of Hillsborough for their sponsorship of Summerfest. It was a great event. Um I want to thank all the volunteers and all the people that came. I saw Commissioner Bonnett, Commissioner Hunziker. I heard you were there with Rory, although I didn't see you. Uh it was a great event, and I'd like to thank the Hillsborough Police Department for keeping us safe. Um it seemed flawless, and it was great to be back on Hillsborough Street. Thanks.

Thank you. Um up next is public comment. We don't have anyone signed up this evening, so we will move into public hearings. The first one is a public hearing on the development fees ordinance for fiscal year 2026-2027. So, I'll take a motion to enter the public hearing.

So, moved.

Thank you, Mr. Foley.

Second.

Mr. Thurber, all those in favor say I.

I.

Thank you. Heather.

Good evening. Um so, we provided um details in your packet of the proposed fee schedule, um which we moved items around so that I also provided the current fee schedule so you could have a comparison cuz

trying to do a redline version would have been very messy. Um, if you have any questions on the fee amounts either I will answer those or I will have May come up and answer them because a lot of these are for the planning engineering department.

Any questions on fees? Make a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you, Mr. Honsecker.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Foley. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye. Now I'll take a motion to adopt the development fee ordinance of fiscal year 2026-2027.

So moved.

Thank you, Mr. Barnes.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Thurber. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

[clears throat]

Thank you. Up next, we have a annexation petition for Highcroft Investors LLC and Chatham Park Investors LLC A-2026-01 and PB-26-150. So I'll take a motion to enter the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Foley.

Second.

Second, Commissioner Farrell. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

[clears throat]

Good evening, everyone. The proposed annexation, as previously mentioned, is a voluntary contiguous annexation petition for 95.795 acres located south of Highway 64 Business and east of Chatham Parkway, which you can see um shown on the screen. The uh the existing use is residential agriculture and staff recommends approval of the annexation. I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Any questions for staff?

I have a general Clayton Park question for you. Uh

are we contractually obligated to approve this annexation?

I can let the town attorney provide for the legality purposes, but um just as a friendly reminder, the preliminary plat for this tract was Womble tract and this was a um the preliminary plat was approved, I believe at the April 13th Board of Commissioners meeting. So, in order for this uh project to move forward with construction drawings and get that approved, they would have to annex in order to move forward. So, I wanted to provide that from a planning perspective on that process.

Clayton Park is obligated to offer it for annexation. And you have a policy that says that if you want public utilities, it has to be annexed. But, it is a legislative decision for you all to make.

I should. Thank you.

Yes. Any other questions or comments? Thank you. There's no one signed up for the public hearing, so I'll take a motion to close the public hearing.

So moved.

Thank you. Commissioner Volz? Second?

Second.

Commissioner All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Thank you. And I will take a motion to approve the annexation request for voluntary contiguous annexation petition A-202601, PB-26-150.

So moved.

I'll second.

Motion uh Commissioner Farrell, second Commissioner Volz. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Thank you. Up next, we have an action item for the manager's recommended budget for fiscal year 2026-27.

[clears throat]

Um I didn't do a presentation. I just

was going to discuss the changes from the version that you saw last meeting at the public hearing that was in your packet today tonight. So um the few changes that we made were we removed a position in engineering, the transportation position, and we've allocated those funds to an assistant project manager and to downtown to fill out the position for um the additional downtown position. So we allocated so now we have those both fully funded. We added funds um for an in-house town attorney. We changed the um cost of living allocation from 3% to 4% and we reduced the mayor bonus from 2% to 1% to offset that. And that's just due to the changes in the current market so we're trying to adjust um employee salaries because of the inflation that's currently going on. And um we moved 5,000 from the parks budget to pub- to buildings and grounds department um for cleaning supplies just cuz that position has moved out of parks and is now under um public works but they are also servicing all of the facilities. We changed the health insurance allocation from 18% to 3%. We were able to realize that reduced cost because we switched from Blue Cross Blue Shield to Aetna. And then and then we also changed the deductibles for our health insurance plans.

I'm sorry, Heather, from 18 to what?

3%.

3%?

Um and then we just reduced um the contracted services in police and we allocated that to personnel within the police department. Those were all the changes so Does anybody have any questions?

I don't know. I have a bunch.

Okay.

You ready?

Yeah.

All right. Do we Just educate me a little bit. Do we Do we collect any revenues from properties

that are not in Pittsburgh?

No.

There's no revenue coming in. Is there any other revenue coming in that's non-Pittsburgh related?

Okay. Uh and then and then uh for Tri-River, uh we no longer have We We're no longer receiving that income anymore. So, our two major sources of income are ad valorem taxes and sales taxes.

Those are the biggest, yeah.

And then how uh big picture, how are we How are we doing with that? We don't have that source source of income anymore, so you know, you did

the Tri-River? Mean?

Yeah.

I mean, so that again was a totally separate fund, so it funded itself.

How was the town doing now without that income?

We're doing We're doing fine. I mean, our budget is tight, but we're doing We're doing fine. Yeah.

Good job. Most of the time on that enterprise, it was a wash your hands with the expenses from uh chemicals and all like that. It was

Upkeep.

Yeah.

It was really just wash your hands.

But hopefully it didn't go over.

No.

Yeah. It had to be

So, we did split some funds between the two funds, you know, like finance director, town manager, um positions that cover both of those funds, we did share those. So, now general fund has had to assume 100% of those costs. So, that was where we did see some initial um you know, where it has has harder on the general fund budget. But, again, we're I mean, again, we're we're doing okay. We're balance Our budget is balanced. We're not using fund balances in the upcoming year.

Thank you for that.

Yep.

Um So, in the ag- there is a third one 1.3 million dollar other revenue in the budget. Do Can you describe what the other budget The other

revenues are?

Are you looking at I think now you're looking at the financial at the financials. Right. Is that the financials, though? That's not the budget.

This is the financials, though. The budget ordinance.

He's looking at the the financials that were provided as informational.

So, uh let's move on, then. So, the vehicle tax jumped 17%. Uh that that revenue revenue Is that for those fees that we're starting?

No. So, no, we've had those fees now for 2 years. So, no, it's not that it's just the value of the vehicle. So, that's an estimate that we actually get from the DMV via the county. So, that's the estimated value of the vehicles, and then our tax rate is applied to the value of the vehicles.

Plus extra vehicles coming in because there are more people here.

Yep. But, that's an estimate that we get from the county. Yeah.

And then, licenses and permits were up $200,000 to $200,000 $200,000. What was What was the that?

So, that's going to be That's our estimated due to changes in the fee schedule that that was just adopted, plus the expected um just flow of of applications. Um so, those those estimates for any of the development services line items or planning engineering fee line items, those were done in conjunction with May to determine what we were expected what we were expecting to receive in revenue.

So, you're projecting growth.

Yes.

Understood. And then uh utilities and franchise taxes were up 20%. To 80 $68 per person. What What

is what I'm I'm estimating based on what we have received so far this year. And and just uh a growth percentage. So, the actual growth is not 20%, but it is based on what I budgeted for the last year, but we've actually received more than I

budgeted.

Okay.

So. That makes sense. And um I think that's it. That's That's it. Thank you.

And your the first question was um that you asked previously was about the tax increase, the 8%. That is just projected based on the on the values of our projected property for for the upcoming tax year.

Okay. Just [clears throat] property values.

just property values.

So, uh has nothing at all to do with increased sales or or not?

No, so sales and use tax, there is I have projected an increase there, but in terms of the ad valorem tax, that is just due to growth.

Yeah. So, increased growth.

Yeah, increased growth, yeah.

Thank you.

Welcome.

Any other questions? I'm clear on the bigger picture of where we're headed.

Mhm.

Knowing that we have somebody that is forward thinking and that you're basing these on facts. And you know, some of it obviously is you you you just have to trust the momentum, but I I appreciate your work. Thank you.

And and I tend to be conservative in my estimate.

[laughter]

So, that's how we some excess fund balance at the end of the year, but So, I would rather be conservative than the than the opposite.

I agree.

Thank you. You have it.

Just thank you to staff for putting This has been a relatively easy process for us, but I know it's been a more difficult year than usual. Um and especially in other communities around here, I hear a lot more uh difficulty. So, appreciate all the work

Yeah. You all put in.

and to make it easier on us. So.

Yes.

Absolutely. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I noticed I noticed the haircut. Was that trimming also the fat down there?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Appreciate that. Thank you.

All right. I'll take a motion to adopt the fiscal year 2026-27 manager's recommended budget.

Moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets.

Second, Commissioner Foley.

All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? All right. Up next, we have the salary schedule for the fiscal year 26-27. Any questions or comments on that? Uh I'll take a motion to approve the fiscal year 26-27 salary schedule as required by NCGS 160A-162.

Moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Bonnets.

Second.

I did.

Commissioner Foley. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? All right. Uh up next is the position control for fiscal year 26-27. Any questions on that? Take a motion to approve the fiscal year 26-27 position control.

Moved.

Second.

Commissioner Farrell.

Thank you, Commissioner Farrell.

All those in favor say I.

I.

You vote?

Thank you.

Up next we have appointment. Appointments to the Pittsboro downtown advisory board. We have some recommendations here. Any discussion?

I would like to make a motion to appoint Alex Plumer. Vicky Oldham. Robin Allgood and Shannon Plumer. With their terms ending on June 30th, 2029. And to appoint Rebecca Dickinson to the

Chatham Chamber of Commerce. Um. Ex-officio seat and to appoint London Crawling to the high school student ex-officio seat.

Thank you. Is there a second?

Second.

Mr. Farrell, say I. Any discussion?

Thank you guys.

All those in favor say I.

I.

Any opposed? All right, you're in.

Thank you.

Um. Up next we have an appointment for a Chatham Park section design plan liaison. So this would be a. Um. The South Village section design plan. Contemplates a planning board or town board liaison. Um. At the discretion of the board of commissioners. Is there any discussion on this item?

Um yes. Uh can we um. Kind of talk about the position and what it entails, the responsibilities and how it's going to um like how we're going to be kept in the loop from the liaison? Cuz I don't see a lot of uh description of the position. But, the full details.

I I think it's a good idea. Um, I think we should talk about it a little bit and then probably ask staff to draft some but like a role description kind of for it so that we can know what it is and then and then get somebody for it. So, uh Teresa.

Sir? I can give some context to the reasoning for the liaison position. Um with this being a continuation of the small area plan, um sort of as instead of approving just one large small area plan, we're now dividing into smaller section design plans. Um

there were a lot of concerns raised by the different boards and the community. Um, so one of those is being a step where a board member can be included in the conversations um from the very beginning, the collaboration sessions, especially um where we sit down with the applicant and talk about the big picture of what the proposed section design plan is before getting into the nitty-gritty, um and having that perspective from the liaison, especially with this being a discretionary decision, still going back to the board and addressing any sort of issues related to public health, safety, and welfare, emerging needs, um the boards recommended having a liaison there as part of that process.

Um can you uh kind of explain what has already been because I understand that this appointment is just one of the items that was discussed back in December that needs to be put in a process. Can you explain like what has been put in place for the section design process and what still needs to be completed. Also, um um how when are the meetings? Are they a weekly meeting? Um when are they being held cuz we we are kind of out of the loop, I think, a little on the on what happens at those meetings. And will this position keep us better informed and how?

Yes, ma'am. Um so far, we have a 12-page process outline with an approval steps all outlined and a checklist that is ready to go out as part of the the first meeting, the actual conceptual with all the outside review agencies as listed in the SAP and the liaison for the board. The liaison for the board, we get all that documentation and be able to bring back to the board that is one part so they can basically do that report back. There's a preliminary schedule for all the meetings through all the process and all the different steps that have to be done, when they have to be done, and time to go to the planning board, to the BOC, and as well as each additional piece.

This is actually I'll give this copy to Carrie. This is that 12-page. It actually includes what that process is and she can pass that into The other parts that have been done is we have three examples of a the concept plan adjustment, the vicinity map, and the section design plans, and trying to find the average to present at that first conceptual meeting to make sure that we're going down the right path completely. For Darren's staff review of the process that we have outlined, this is one of the items that was outlined that we made to have this liaison in place. The also, we have to determine how public comment is going to be done. That is still one of the items on the list. Um how we're going to post it, how we're going to communicate it to the public. We have [sighs] received the model for transportation as the no build for the 2045. we have already commented and sent some of the issues back that need to be addressed. We have not come to a full decision on how to deal with the TIAs yet. That is still one of item. And then the financial report has been sent to administration for review. So that those are the items right now where the last pieces that remain.

Thank you.

Whoever is going to be that liaison would have access to all the information to help work through that the final pieces of our process during that meeting.

Okay. And TIA being traffic impact analysis.

Yes, sir.

So Chatham Park's model has been submitted to staff. The TIAs, um, are they noted in that model? And when do we see those?

So the model has been submitted, not noted in there. Um, currently that process has not been decided they have where there's going to be at section design plan or at the preliminary plat, the comment was made of how to make that

work if they're going to have the swap from the parks, what would be a be the best point to do it at a section design plan versus a preliminary plat, but no agreement has been met. Um, we have recorded those meetings. That That's the last meeting specifically getting to the point where we're talking about those items. So we are working through that. Um, sorry. The model piece itself the comments has roads that were originally not studied included for the no build. And a majority of those do not currently work. So they're they're in the We have an example of that model passed along as well.

I can give some background. Reasoning for the TIA stipulation on being preliminary plat versus section design plan. Um, originally as per the small area plan, a transportation impact analysis is required at that time. Um in speaking with the applicant in some of the larger sections, uh it was discussed that it might be possible where there is a small section that the applicant would like to uh move forward on, that there's a we could require the TIA at the preliminary plat. And then when that TIA is uh submitted, it would be for the entire section design plan. Again, this conversation um as being a may in the uh section design plan language that was adopted in the small area plan, was contingent on the being approved by the town board for one. So, um if it worked out where there was a small section that staff felt comfortable allowing the TIA to be to wait until the preliminary plat, that would be the reason why staff would recommend doing it that way. Otherwise, the intent of the language is for the transportation impact analysis to be done prior to the section design plan

approval. Um and that basically is what the preliminary plan step would have been. Um and in addition with the no build model at the time, um it wasn't approved, staff allowed the small area plan or recommended the small area plan to be um approved contingent on that no build model. So, at the time that we had these conversations, none of that information was known. The issues um with potential on-site and off-site improvements based on the no build um the results of the no build model. As uh Ms. Armstrong was saying that there are some

So currently that no build model is not approved by staff. It only has been submitted and commented to at this point and then there are no process for the TIAs has been finalized and outlined. So I'm not sure if this So we have not finalized what the process for the TIA looks like. That has not been done and the model itself has been submitted, commented on, but not approved by staff. Did that make sense in the context of why the language is approved that way?

Mhm. Um, what about the fiscal um, impact studies? Um, do you get numbers for those with each um, section design plan or is that annual and um, does that include, I know we've talked about it before, both revenue and expenses?

So is it I know that they have submitted their yearly version of that to administration, but they are still expecting to get the comments back to present that in August. But there are no individual ones that have been outlined as of yet.

Um. So could we ask for those to be at the T E ask for the TIAs and the financial the fiscal impact reports be

part of those? Can we require that to be part of the um, submittal of the SDPs?

My [clears throat] understanding the answer would be yes because this is discretionary, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Um, discretionary ties back to what I was saying before with emerging needs and public health, safety, and welfare. So when it goes through the staff review, we go through all the requirements that's listed in the small area plan which may explain we have a I think nine-page checklist of everything that we look at. Um, based on that we give a recommendation to the town board uh, just like we did for the small area plan. So if the applicant does not want to submit the TIA at the second design plan, and staff's recommendation is that it should be based on all the issues I just described, the town board has discretionary decision on that as well. Um including the no build information that we have now that we didn't have prior to, then that would be the discretion of the town board. Staff cannot require it. Um but we can give a recommendation on why it should be.

So, would would this liaison be an observer or they be like negotiating or advising?

They're they're part of the review committee. So, just um they would be included in asking questions and understanding what are what's the the big picture issues going on with the development as a whole.

First of all,

kind of getting that conversation um complete before we dig into the minor issues that I don't think the liaison would need to be involved with as much at that point.

So, in that same vein, we can then ask the liaison the the board can ask the liaison to ask questions or make a statement in during discussions.

Yes, but the coordination can be both ways, too.

The purpose of the coordination meeting session is to uh

liaisons

see potential concerns. And that's the reason why it was requested by the agreed upon by the applicant.

So, uh you know, we had uh a great deal of uh tension, I'll call it, last November regarding legislative uh uh powers being given away. I think this liaison position might enhance our standing with the public knowing that we have direct communication through the liaison. That's a statement, not a question.

I agree with you.

Thank you.

[clears throat]

Thanks, guys.

Any other comments or questions?

I would like to make a motion to appoint Corey Forrest from the planning board.

Okay. Is there a second?

Okay. I think I think if if this is discussion now or

Sure.

Okay. So, I I would like to wait until we get a true definition of of the roles of the that individual uh is required to have as a liaison before we we push forward that idea. Uh I'd like to hear anybody else talk about it.

I think it could be important to define what this role is specifically before we appoint someone to it. Um and sort of that

not what Teresa and May just did?

Uh I don't think it's completely clear from that. But um and I think in with our current legal situation, I think it'd be

smart to have a defined written role um before we do that.

I concur.

Oh, Mayor Ship, uh would you be willing to craft that draft and based on what we've heard from staff and your understanding of concerns in the community and on this board?

Sure. I'll I'll work with staff and the board attorney on that. Yeah.

Okay.

To bring it back next month. Is that good for staff or

Is there Would Would this additional month of delay pose any impacts on staff? Or on the developer?

I'd be on the developer. They're scheduled They would like to submit I think six this year. So, we're we're going to update the schedule for the rest of the year. That would be basic. I don't think they have to bring it back before they submit that.

Should we maybe if it is going to cause a developer an issue, should we appoint an interim until such time that we have the actual design role?

I don't think it actually delays. I think

Yeah, we have time.

Do we need a motion to do that or just do it? I don't have a problem with

I think a motion would be good.

We have a motion on the floor. Well, okay. So, is there a second to Jay's motion?

Commissioner Fryar.

I'll second.

My question is what more do we need from a liaison and do Are we going to have requirements for this liaison to to go to these meetings with these kind of

requirements? It's pretty much self-explanatory on the back page right here. So.

Well, everything. Any Is there a second to make Commissioner Farrell's motion? Okay. Motion fails for lack of a second. Uh I will take a motion for the mayor and staff and the board attorney to work on a role description for the liaison. To bring it back next month.

So moved.

Thank you, Commissioner Foley. [clears throat] Second Commissioner Hunziker. Any other discussion? All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Thank you. Um up next is Parks and Rec Advisory Board resolution. Hey.

Sorry. We are looking today to revamp our It right now, the Parks and Rec Advisory Board is in the code of ordinances and we are looking to take that out of the ordinances and put it as a resolution. So, please let me know if you have any questions.

What is the purpose?

So, the purpose of this is the way that it's in the ordinance right now, it's the only one this ordinance, and then it's a little bit more vague uh on what responsibilities and everything would be. And so now that we are especially revamping what the advisory board board roles are going to be, we want to take each section and really monitor it. And another part of it is as you can see in the resolution is currently we have four in-town members and three ETJ members. And since the population has grown and we're also getting so much active participation, especially from the in-town residents, we want to shift that to maybe a max of two ETJ members with the opportunity, depending on what applications we get in. Thanks.

Um

[clears throat]

Can you elaborate on your suggestion that the ordinance is vague?

Well, there are some situations in there that are from the feedback that we have gotten over the past couple of months is that it is not reflective on what we have been doing or what they want to be doing, what we want to be doing, and what direction we should go forward. So, this is to help give a little reset in describing what this role for a person on the Parks and Rec Advisory Board will do.

Okay. Is this uh I'm still vague. I'm not following this. Why is this resolution not just enhanced ordinances? Why can't we change the

ordinance? Why resolution? I am not the expert in ordinances. So, I'm going to pass that to somebody who is an expert in the ordinances.

A resolution is uh is less formal than an ordinance. Uh you're creating a an advisory body. You're not making it a law. You're creating an advisory body that may be changed in the future. You may do away with it in the future. And it's easier to do that with the resolution than it is to do it with an ordinance.

I understand what you're saying, but I still don't follow the law.

I'm not sure why it's in the code of ordinances cuz I don't think it was adopted as an ordinance in the first place. I think it was a resolution. But it's in there. And does it need to be in there?

Does the downtown business association No, it's a What does the planning department have?

No, this is

Does the planning board have a resolution also?

Yes.

They do.

This is So the Parks and Recreation Board is the only board that's in the code of ordinances other other than the Board of Commissioners.

The planning board is in there.

But planning board is required by state law though. So I It's the only advisory board in the code of ordinances.

Can you Can you Can you talk about section five, item B? And the members shall serve two years staggered. Maximum two consecutive terms. Can you talk about There is there is something called intellectual capital that you you want to maintain retain if you can. Let's say you have an extraordinary contributor. But an extraordinary contributor to this is four years and that person is gone. Is that correct?

Do you any reason why you want to restrict that?

So I also think this is very common in a lot of the boards that we have done research in and this is common in I believe the parks or the planning board has the same rule if I'm not mistaken of wanting just to have fresh ideas and new things especially as a growing time just wanting to have maybe set having someone else in the opportunity to be in that seat.

Are you allowing this extraordinary person whoever this may be it's you know they were born to do it. Uh can they then reapply or not?

Well, if they've had their max of two years

Max of two and that's it.

What is two consecutive?

Two consecutive means two back-to-back.

Two

They could stay off of a term and then come back on it.

Okay.

All right, so Okay.

May I jump in on that point? Um I I don't like the two kind of change horses midstream and if there is a good person that I would like to keep them on and not be forced to lose that person because of a calendar. Um the other thing is it is the Board of Commissioners responsibility to make appointments and if we feel that that person has stale ideas or we need new new ideas or new people on the board then that falls with us to do that when the appointments are made. So I think that the board can decide if that person has served enough terms not have it forced upon the board. I think that's kind of taking away our responsibility and the authority from the board. Um and and that kind of rolls into another point on that which is attendance. Oh I well I can I

can just leave it at that for that and then I can go into a 10-things after and the removal of a board member.

You want me to jump in? So, um it says that if any board member is removed for any of the aforementioned reasons, which include prolonged illness uh or a family member or due to sickness, they are ineligible to ever serve on the board again. And I would like to say that I I think that's a little extreme. Uh take for example, let's say a woman has breast cancer and has to and is sick. She's removed. Now, she's in remission. She is now ineligible to ever serve again. Or if you had a family member who is sick and you could not serve you could never serve again. I I think that needs to be reworded to not be so harsh.

I agree.

Me, too. I have something to to change it like at the discretion of the board can be added. Something like that where we have we we maintain some power and there's also some um positivity when it comes to that. Uh I I'd hate to have you lose somebody, Katie, that's really good because of the language of this resolution. That makes sense. Watching your back. Yeah.

And I think these all say too that parent member may be removed by majority vote. So, these are discretionary kind of conditions as well, but I think if we remove the shall not be able to be reappointed in the future, it leaves it up to the board for future appointments. So, any other

Just to kind of mention them several years back when we were discussing this, maybe months too, but we had boards that we had to assign people on them cuz

nobody was applying. And you send the applications out and applications out, put them back in the paper, put them back on the website. Nobody was wanting to work and volunteer on these boards. So, that was what we came up to this, you know, the the two terms and get some fresh ideas, bring some new people in to the town that that's moved just recently in the town from other areas. And that that was the reason for that right there. I mean, we It's been [clears throat] times when we've had nobody apply for boards.

I would say that times are changing. Um 60 people

Look outside, yeah.

60 people applied for PDAB.

Yeah.

Um and I don't know. I I I was on the first the first round of PDAB, and like you said, there was nobody, and now there's an abundance of applicants.

That's exactly [clears throat] why I'm just saying that's Do you want to keep the same seven members on for 30 years?

I mean, I think if there's one great member, sure. Well, that goes again to the board makes that appointment. So, if the board feels that they are the best seven members, then fine. But with they have 60, well, then absolutely the board makes the appointments, not a document. And I think the board should make the decision whether or not somebody serves, not a document.

If you would like to delete the term limit, you just take the second sentence of B out.

Yeah, well

Sorry.

Delete second sentence of B.

Yes.

I'm I I have uh greater concerns than just uh minor edits. Um So, overall, I'm reading this document, uh noting the word ambassador, um that it seems like a a shrinking of the role

of the Parks and Rec Advisory Board at a time when I think our community most needs an increase and expansion of public input and participation. Um as we grow rapidly, I think we need to have three ETJ members. Uh we're going to be growing into the ETJ. We're not growing parks in town at this moment in our evolution. Um not as many. And um though there will be some info parks now that I think about that, but our our vast expansion of acreage is going to be out in the ETJ. Uh that's where the impacts will be, positive and negative. And I want to hear more from the ETJ, not less. So I very much support having three rather than uh two ETJ reps. Uh Commissioner Hunsicker, in our conversation, I think you were concerned about even having any limit. Do you want to speak to more about that?

Well, I I was looking at it like um more again, I think the board has the final authority on who is appointed. And if three absolutely stellar people come on, uh apply, and they happen to be ETJ, I kind of look at it like ETJ today, PBO tomorrow. And I would hate to say no because you're you're going to be an ex- next year. Um I think again, it's the board's responsibility to pick the best people. And so I kind of I I agree with Commissioner Bonnett's on that.

So what was your rationale? Uh Educate me. Uh going from three to two.

Well, I did it for up to two people in ETJ because for people that are in town, they are taxpayers and I felt that especially prime example this round 14 out of the

16 applicants were in town members and if you have three out of the seven for ETJ then

Lopsided.

Yes, it's very lopsided. So, um I can and again it goes back to they are members of the ETJ or not paying tax their taxes are not going to the town of Pittsboro. So Well, I especially as the growth that we're having maybe that should

Can I only ask you a question on that point and I'm not trying to belabor this point, but right now we have a whole bunch of applicants, which is great. But what happens if we don't and four seats come vacant? And we don't have enough applicants to fill them. Do they just stay vacant because we might have to pick somebody else from the ETJ? Again, I think that that's something that the board should take into consideration what the current makeup of the board is, where they reside, who the applicants are and then the responsibility to have a well-balanced board with ETJ and in town or or whatnot relies on us for those appointments.

Would you say up to three people for the ETJ or you say no, absolutely have to have three members of the ETJ like it is currently?

I don't think I would say we had to have any or a limit. I think we should look at what the current board makeup is and it's our responsibility to make a a judgment on is this a well-weighted board? Um we may find that all of the parks that are going to be built out like you were just saying. Well, right now we do have some infill ones, but what if all the parks are ETJ? Maybe we at that point would want them.

They will be.

Who says they're being annexed?

I don't They have to be. Yeah.

And And one point of clarification if I may, a lot of the land that's being annexed is raw land. It's It's not existing homeowners. So, to say that the ETJ is PBO tomorrow

is correct if it's raw land and if it's being annexed for subdivisions, but existing residences in the ETJ I don't think they're very likely to annex cuz that's going to That's just more taxes they have to pay.

Got you.

I would That was Yeah.

Well, I guess that goes to the you know, what's our definition of of who we're responsible to and I I feel a very broad sense of responsibility in this community because the What is it? 5,000 people, approximately 6,000 people who live in town are just a fraction of the people who represent Pittsboro in my opinion. Um our border is porous. People come in and out all day long. People do business here. People work in town. Um and live just outside the town limits. Uh so, it's again, it's really important to me that we have ETJ representation that's very strong. Um and again, um uh because the additional parks are going to be in the South Village phenomenal. I think there needs to be more more folks from that area. Uh regardless of whether they um are town residents or taxpayers. Um They're part of the community. Um The other piece here if I can elaborate on on this ambassador idea, I I have understood the Parks and Rec Advisory Board to be an advisory board that gives feedback to our staff and to the Board of Commissioners. And I think that it's actually explicit in the current language that it also should give feedback to the Planning Board. And I see that as a two-way channel. And um ambassador feels more like a I mean this is my language, but a kind of a public relations extension.

that's that's concerning to me. Um Uh I'm sorry, Ms. Keller, but

[clears throat]

at point, this very memorandum which presents a resolution that presumes to completely rework the structure and function of our Parks and Rec Advisory Board has no input from the Parks and Rec Advisory Board. It wasn't presented to the to PARB. And or if it was, their feedback wasn't recorded in the memo. So, I think that's a problem. Um

But John, I'll disagree with you on that cuz I don't believe that's the advisory board's decision to do a a resolution for the town. It should be our legal and our administration.

That's an excellent point, Jay. And and let's let's put a real let's put a Excuse me, Commissioner Farrell. That's an excellent And let's put a real fine point on it. They also are not responsible for the budget. But in our current ordinance, they are responsible to give input and feedback on the budget. And we're not doing that. We're not asking that of them. I think that's very important. I think it's really important because in this day and age when we're all strapped so tight, we want to know that our taxes are being spent properly, and I want advisory board's help in making those determinations. I I believe in this thing called participatory budgeting, and city of Durham is doing it, other communities are doing it. We have a budget survey that steps in that direction of gathering feed public feedback on our budget process, but this is a very rigorous idea of having an advisory board give input on how the next year's budget should be shaped.

I think that's important. I think that's valuable.

I don't I disagree with that because it is an advisory board to the town. To us, it's an advisory board to us. If they want to say hey, they want to spend X amount of money on this project or this project, then that would come to Katie to us. I just don't I don't believe that's their place to uh to budget funding.

I Again, I think that we're we're maybe we're not defining it properly. My hope and expectation is that the Parks and Rec Advisory Board will take action according to the ordinances. And the the language in the ordinance, maybe staff can help with that. What is the current ordinance as it's as regards the budget?

Or apparel.

And another point of clarification, I believe it was October I was directed to rewrite the pair of ordinances.

Who directed you?

Uh this board did.

In what session?

It was in a closed session.

Uh I was in that closed session. I don't remember anyone directing you. I remember the mayor expressing an interest in it.

That's It's not what I would call. And apologies that it's taken this long to get here. Well, I think either way, it's here for us to consider um whatever I I don't remember exact genesis, but as regards the budget.

Mr. Monac, could you maybe like explain what that would look like? Would there

be a meeting where they would it it go through uh potential budget and give it to Katie and then she would bring it to like how how how would you see their involvement?

Yeah, I think that's that's a fine uh idea that uh staff would present to the Parks and Rec Advisory Board staff's plan for the next year before it's delivered to the manager. And that would increase public input and public support.

Yes, section eight. To advise and assist to advise and assist in the preparation of the Parks and Recreation Department budget.

Or it could be as simple as the members of the Parks and Rec Advisory Board saying, "Hey, we really think that this is a hot issue that needs needs attention in your budget. We hope you'll present that in your budget to the manager."

Is that something that occurs now or Do we have that in the past or was it really magnified this year? Was because a lot of time is we have been directed from the beginning that there was not a lot of room for growth in the budgets and that there were not going to be projects that were funded because we were going to be strapped in the next coming year. So, instead, I chose to focus on some other things because budget was as it is strictly operational. We have focused on the goals that we have gotten the year before [clears throat] and the year before I did in the last several years I've always gotten their input on, "Hey, which projects would you prioritize?" Um example, one of their goals has been to have a bathroom at each public park. And we are well on our way to achieving some of those baby steps in in that way. But that is the reason why, to Mr. Barnes' points, for this specific year that the budget was not

leaned on or focused on as heavily this year.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think it's an That would be It is an unusual constraint for a department and we don't have advisory board input on a public works budget or administration budget or things like that. Like, we're The manager's responsible to create the budget and we're responsible to approve the budget. Um and I think that, you know, we do we do get feedback on on all of those things, but I don't I don't think that um that constraint on one department is is good. I think the reality, too, when that was created, whatever was whether was resolved or ordained, um we had a kind of part-time parks and rec department um out of the plan anymore. So, I think that the recognition now of a larger parks and rec department and a professional staff that advises us. And I think we've seen other places as well limit or eliminate advisory boards with that recognition that there, you know, was There's a different function served by them now and I think this is a good recasting of the function while maintaining the advisory uh function of of her.

So, I do remember you saying that mayor ship in the closed session and your observation that other communities are minimizing or even eliminating advisory boards. Um my uh response, I don't recall if I said that then is that those communities are very mature communities. They are not growing. They are certainly not growing as rapidly as we are. And I think as rapidly as we are growing and where the growth of parks will be uh I think really puts a much greater emphasis on public input. Um and

um the role of volunteers in the parks and rec advisory board. So. Okay.

[clears throat]

I've heard few items. Any other any questions or comments? Other questions or comments?

Is there a point of clarification? Um section nine It was the last members removed pursuant to this policy shall not continue to serve and shall not be eligible to be reappointed to the parent in the future. That entire sentence or just a portion of it?

Just the last half of that. They shall not continue to serve. I guess mean that their term is over at that point and shall not continue to continue to serve period.

Then section five part B members shall serve a maximum of two consecutive terms.

Strike that. I didn't have

[clears throat]

And then uh Uh, where did it go?

We have anything in here about members participating in budgetary suggestions.

Yes, sir.

You don't.

That might be something we want to add.

Thank you.

Not making budgetary decisions, but participating and recommend that recommendations.

That would feel like empowering if I was on that board.

[clears throat]

How many members do we have? Are we we agreeing on seven members and two ETJs or Well, I didn't I didn't feel a clear I didn't get a clear indication where the board was with that. Is it seven two or unlimited? That sounds

[clears throat]

I think unlimited doesn't make a lot of sense, but can what is the purpose of only having seven?

That's what it was whenever I got here.

Okay.

I think there's a functional size of a board that is for me.

Agreed.

Yes, I think that there is something to be said for not too many people in in the room as well.

I would disagree cuz PDAB has um a lot of people and on the board. I would say at least 20 members and we have a real they have a really good time and they get along and there's lots of great ideas that come through and I think if there was only seven, it would it would not be as as um you know, we wouldn't have as as much uh imagination and creativity and uh all those things. I would like to see more more members on that board.

I was thinking of suggesting nine members.

Yeah, PDAB is 11 voting, seven ex-officio.

Eight to one.

Almost almost 20. Yeah.

11 voting.

I think that's

And this is I'm remembering back to the larger advisory board policy discussion from last month, but there was something in there about a restriction of no one under the age of 18. Uh and I was thrilled that there is an ex-officio member from a high school uh who I would guess might very well be younger than 18. Um and um so maybe we can consider uh revising that language both here in P-DAB and uh in the overall advisory board policy uh to be a little bit more open to youthful participation uh in an ex-officio capacity perhaps. Um I'm just going to go ahead and propose uh see if we can get just kind

of a rough straw poll and then support of a firm three not to exceed three ETJ members. See some heads nodding.

I agree.

I'm on the clock.

Okay.

Um if you did a non-member board with three ETJ

Yeah.

We can reassess this time next year. When we're we're we're we're going to be hopping next year this time.

That's true. That's true.

And I would like to suggest um some board training for for P-DAB.

The The thing about this too, particularly being a resolution now, is that it it should be a little bit more of a living document and we can see how it goes, see what like agree that applications may shift over time. We have a wealth of applications now, I think for a lot of reasons. And so if that changes in time we don't get applications, we can come back and change things as well easily. But I think at some point, you know, we've got to make, you know, make it to change it in the future.

Future could be. Sure.

Yeah.

Um since you brought up applications, I would like to um just mention that I think our applications need to be a little bit more in-depth for all of the advisory boards, especially when you see that um somebody may put on their application that they want to serve on every single one of the uh advisory boards. Um I think it would be very helpful to come up with some open-ended questions that are applicable to the boards such as if you're going to uh on pair, but might say, "What do Where do you think we are doing well with our parks? Where do you think we are falling short? What was the last park you went to?" Something so we can see that they are really engaged with it, not just, "I want to be on one of these advisory boards." Maybe something with P-DAB, it might be, "Where do you think our strengths

downtown are and where do you think" so we are getting a little bit more of what they bring to the table. And I think that something like that will also help those vetting the applicants because you might you might go, "Oh, wow, that's a really good idea we never thought of." So I would like to see something more than, "What boards would you like to serve on? How long have you lived in town?" and basically your CV.

Yeah.

Can we instruct staff to come up with uh some open-ended questions to revise the applications going forward so we have a little bit more depth to them?

Kind of like that HR almost vetting. Right? Is that what you're trying to say?

Exactly.

You know, the big picture uh Uh, parks is our shining star town.

[clears throat]

and the more we can pay attention to this advisory board, I think it's going to pay off because it creates families coming downtown. It's an economic driver. And the more we can do for your departments to make it a special and shining example in the center of North Carolina, the better we can Yeah. Thank you.

Welcome.

Mr. Foley, we'll we'll put and and I'll elaborate to say that that the parks are one of most uh with regard to the parks and the public the interface is most vibrant right there. Our parks are one of the biggest and most common touches with the public. So, um, yeah.

And that's only going to grow.

Exactly. Yeah. So, I'll I'll move that we table this for uh these revisions, uh plus incorporation of additional written feedback and from whomever

wishes to present that and um hopefully bring it back at the next board meeting.

Is there a second?

I second.

Okay.

One question, can you just quickly go over these revisions?

So, the revisions I have I think I think we were aligned on was uh section five item A would be up to three ETJ members instead of two.

Section five item B would be removing the term limits.

And what just one minute. How about the seven, was that going to nine?

I thought it was. We'll look at that, I think. Commissioner Burris' idea is great.

[clears throat]

And then that uh section 9 item 5 would remove the never reappointed language.

What else was there? Just the addition of some budget

Number 9, I'm sorry.

Oh, your budgetary uh suggestion feedback or suggestions.

All right, I'm getting three forward hands after this I'm one of them yelling at the town, please.

Sorry.

So, number 9 item 5, the second half of that. Okay. So, it would number 5 would just say members removed pursuant to this policy should not continue to serve.

Got you.

And then so 5A would say the board shall consist of nine members.

Right.

And then no more than three may reside within the town's ETJ.

Do you have anything in number 9 down there regarding the attendance, please?

It's in there.

Nothing was said regarding the prolonged illness. But we we drew

Well, it says maybe removed for reason. So, that's just up to the board's discretion if somebody was removed for that.

And absences due to sickness shall be regarded as approved absences.

And the age limit, where does the age limit uh

It's in a separate policy.

Okay.

It's not [clears throat] approved. Yeah.

Yeah, we just got the final draft draft yeah, last week.

So, um I I again reiterate that I think that uh this this policy needs to be more affirmative and less restrictive and more active and engaged rather than confining uh these volunteers to an ambassador role. And I'd love to hear other commissioners' thoughts on this if you have thoughts

I think that I think it describes a lot more than an ambassador role. That that term is in there in one of the lines, but I don't think

I think in comparison to the prior policy, it's a it's a confinement of responsibilities. It's a res- It's a contraction of roles and responsibilities.

It's a change, certainly.

You regard it, excuse me, Commissioner the limitations on authority is that

Yeah.

I have any issues with that or

I think they you know, legalistically I don't have any issues either, but in a policy

document, I mean, are we trying to re-

resolution not a

What are we recruit- are we trying to be make people feel inspired and and valued or make them feel suspected and uh penalized?

I understand what you're saying, Commissioner Bonnett. It does feel oppressive. Uh it's like someone's putting a a sign up on on the wall as you walk down the hall in school. You know, they're saying

No spitting, no cursing.

We really need those limitations on authority in this resolution. Do we? I'm serious.

Yeah. Um

I

[clears throat]

welcome the feedback.

a clear role definition is very helpful for everybody.

Okay.

I agree that some of the limitations on authority might be a little, like you said, no, no, no, but um as far as to address your point on it ambassador and the you know, promote awareness and access. I I think having that in there, I think it's C and D. I think that is it's not saying you must promote or you must serve as an active ambassador, but I think it's good to tell them that I I think that's a a pat on the back. You're an ambassador for our parks. Our parks are you know, I like to joke that we're Circle City, but we're almost Park City. So, I think it I think that's empowering actually. Um but I agree with some of the language in the

Well, I am reading, not to step on you.

No, go ahead.

But I'm reading uh section 10 C. I think we had an issue with that this year, did we not? Budgetary authority. Well, so maybe maybe we should keep these in.

So, Mr. Bonasera, do you be willing to

modify your motion for those changes?

To reword it maybe, so it's less oppressive or

I think my motion still stands that I was asking that this be tabled until the next meeting with the incorporation of what's been discussed plus additional written feedback that any commissioners would like to deliver.

Okay, that's perfect.

Um you know, and and I'm going to go ahead and elaborate now to to to to make my further my point about the the role and engagement um our current P-A-R-B

[clears throat]

guidelines ordinance is it includes to inform and interpret the needs of the general public to the governing body and the town manager. Um

do we have to inform and interpret in this new draft? No.

Commissioner Bonnett, I would say that the reason that it's not the same in the in the current version is because of what Manager Franklin said was that we were amending it to reflect the current nature of our or maybe it was mayorship or where reflect where changing it to reflect the current nature of our of the town and the staff that we have. Who the staff are doing that to the board. So the advisory board is not necessarily doing that piece, but prior when this was first established the advisory board was established, we did not have the staff that we have. I mean we didn't have that

Yes, well taken. Point well taken. [clears throat]

So so part of of amending it is to reflect that we now have staff, we have a parks department, that parks department is only going to get bigger, and we're going to have staff that are

able to do some of the functions that the advisory board was previously maybe outlined in that ordinance to do.

Sure. I still think there's a need for a volunteer parks and rec advisory board to inform and interpret the needs of the public uh to the board and to staff. Um

Is there any other discussion on the motion to delay?

You can you can [clears throat] you can put that in in writing and we can consider it.

Thank you. to serve as a forum in introducing innovative and new ideas, concepts, programs, policies, and procedures. Um when I've heard of efforts from Arab members to do that, it has not fallen on fertile ground. And this is one of the reasons why I'm so motivated and driven to persuade this board to um ask for an improvement to this policy.

Okay. All those in favor of Commissioner Urbanowitz's motion, you can say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? All right. Motion passes. Next, we have Parks and Rec Advisory Board appointments. What do we want? I would recommend we wait on those until we have the policy.

Especially if we're going to be bringing in a new board.

Thank you.

Yeah. I move that we table that till next month.

I second you. Second, Commissioner Foley. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? All right.

Mr. If if I could request a motion, um Mr. Huntsinger, you mentioned uh revisiting the application.

Yes.

If that is the will of the board, I would I would need a motion for that.

So moved.

Second.

Can we state it?

Uh okay. So, I make a motion that we revise the application to include some open-ended questions that give us a deeper look into the applicant as far as um their thoughts on where we can improve or what we're doing well.

Thank you. Second.

Second.

Mr. Mayor, all those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Uh here are we going to just keep these applications here only? You all leave it open another month.

I think we'd probably re-advertise after we do the policy.

That That push any appointments to August or September.

Please.

Yeah. I think we're going to re- ask the board and change the size and change the representation. We should do that.

Do

Okay, hold on 1 second. Cuz then I'm curious if the the person that are currently on if their term is expiring.

If they're in June.

They would continue to serve cuz that was in the resolution that

They serve until their successors.

Yes. That was in the resolution.

need to take action on that.

But is that in

It's the default. It's the law.

It is.

It's the default.

Um all right. That answers my question.

Thank you.

If they're willing.

All right, good point.

[cough and clears throat]

Okay. Are we good to move on? All right. Up next is the Pittsburgh Downtown Annual Overview and Work Plan. Teresa.

Good evening, Mayor and Commissioners. Teresa Thompson, downtown development director. Um Forewarning, there are 39 or 40 slides. But, I will try to get through this as quickly as possible. I always get a little excited about PowerPoints. Um but feel free to stop me anytime you have questions. Also wanted to recognize some of our board and committee members that uh were able to make it tonight. Um Shannon Plummer uh newly appointed Alex Hoover, Vicky Odom uh Rebecca Dickinson from the chamber and also on the P-Dub and Claire Cain on our economic vitality committee. Um I'm presenting the downtown Pittsboro fiscal year 2026-2027 annual work plan, providing an overview of what we've been up to the past few months. So, before discussing the work plan itself I wanted to acknowledge that downtown Pittsboro's success is truly a community effort. Our downtown program requires collaboration um and again requires it between the town board, downtown advisory board, business owners, property owners volunteers, organizations such as the chamber, small business center, EDC, the business association, and rotary club. Uh lots of other organizations, countless citizens, and um everyone who simply cares about the future of Pittsboro and downtown Pittsboro. Including you. Oh, but thank you. Yeah, staff as well. Downtown revitalization does not happen because of one person or one organization. It happens because an entire community decides that having a vibrant downtown matters. And fortunately, Pittsboro has embraced that philosophy and I'm grateful for the support we continue to receive for that. Keep forgetting we have the clicker.

To understand the work plan, it's important to first understand the vision that guides it. Our vision statement describes what Downtown Pittsburgh wants to become, while the mission statement describes how we all work together to get there. Using the Main Street four-point approach, uh you can see in the um shape at the top right corner. It includes uh organization, economic vitality, design, and promotions. This balanced approach addresses economic development, planning, beautification, tourism, partnerships, and community engagement um together rather than trying to tackle all those in isolation. And our three primary goals is to strengthen Downtown Pittsburgh as a center of an eclectic and innovative economy, um support as a vibrant arts and cultural destination, and foster our unique character as an inclusive and welcoming place for everyone. And these goals are the foundation of our work plan. Work plan serves as the road map for the Downtown Advisory Board and committees and teams um and town staff for the upcoming year. It builds on the recommendations from the 2023 Main Street plan and the 2014 Downtown Vision Plan, along with other adopted plans. Um I wanted to note that many of our plan or projects, as you can see, stay carryover um as we were not able to uh finish several of the initiatives um having a late start around December January. Um some some several of them have been delayed. As a result, uh we're going to focus on advancing projects already underway before adding new projects. Starting with the first pillar, organization. Um this focuses on building partnerships, volunteer volunteering,

collaboration, and community support. On the Downtown Advisory Board, serves as our coordinating body um that helps guide priorities and implementation. It consists of 11 voting members and we found that number to be very effective. It's large enough to bring a diverse group of viewpoints and expertise um while also keeping it productive and collaborative. And while the board itself meets once 1 hour a month, um we have created the informal working teams. So, under the organization or PDAB, the teams are listed there, starting with the PDAB Connectors. Um we ask all volunteers that are board members, committee members, anyone else pick one to three uh projects from the work plan and that is basically time spent implementing action items on top of their 1 hour committee and board meetings as there's not a whole lot of implementation that can happen just 1 hour a month.

Before you go on, Teresa, can you add my name to the EDC Corporation uh ex officio position.

Okay. Um

I'll be cheering you on.

Okay. So, um and we can try to have that go to the town board the next month then. Cuz tonight we had Rebecca um from the chamber uh as ex officio. So, um I think the way our resolution is is

Well, she's with the chamber.

Yeah, that's that position is for someone from the EDC.

Oh, yes.

on this board.

Okay, so

The EDC

So, I can't

You're already the representative to the EDC.

Right. Right, so I can't do I can't straddle. Okay.

Well, thank you anyways.

Okay, thanks.

Um, we

I can come though.

Of course. And we have been talking to

Philip Thompson. Um, and he he actually came to the last P meeting as well. So, he might be interested. Um, so regarding the vision plan, this is one of our most important priorities this upcoming fiscal year. The original vision plan was adopted in 2014. Um, since then Pittsburgh has experienced tremendous growth and we adopted a land use plan, completed many other studies as you can see on the screen. Um, so the vision plan's going to help establish a a shared vision for downtown. Um, and the goal to the vision plan is creating an actual working plan uh, with uh, timelines, priorities, budgets for the next 10 to 20 years and not just be a plan that kind of just sits on a shelf that no one ever looks at. This would be something that would help guide all of our annual work plans for the next several years as well. We also are looking to have a annual downtown celebration where we can um, thank volunteers and uh, businesses, uh, conduct a annual bus tour, P-DAB retreat, which that has been scheduled. We were able to um, have one before July 1st for this fiscal year. And we are organizing a volunteer recruitment event. Um, as y'all saw for the P-DAB appointments, we received I think at least 60 applications just for P-DAB. We probably have received at least another 30 or 40 just general inquiry for volunteer um applications. So, that that would take a lot of time to reach out to all those individually. So, we're going to have a volunteer recruitment event where it's kind of like a job fair. We'll have the different um areas of downtown where you'll have your own little booth and people can go to and learn more about it. We also had internal um kind of like an internal work plan

and that includes uh stretch strengthening all the partnerships, expanding training opportunities, um improving areas identified in our assessment. We were accredited again, um but there are items that the North Carolina program asked us to work on. So, we're going to spend time on trying to make that those issues um better and work on uh more grants, try to network more, and learn more from other downtown directors, and just enhance collaboration and communication in general. Moving on to the second pillar, it's vitality. Um and you can see the economic vitality committee um members on the right. We have three teams, Biz Boosters, Streetscape Stars, and the Downtown Dream Team. All of these volunteers, they help focus on strengthening downtown's long-term economic future through business retention, business expansion, entrepreneurship, redevelopment, and strategic growth um that's within our downtown and our downtown support areas. And uh a healthy downtown that supports local jobs, attracts visitors, generates tax revenue, and contributes significantly to community identity and quality of life. So, that's our goal for economic vitality. Um and this is the area that I intend to um hopefully be able to spend a lot more of my time um building up this upcoming fiscal year. Our main projects are um reviewing UDO standards. So, our phase one is the downtown overlay district, which there's a text amendment that would be going to um it already went to the downtown advisory board. It will be going to the planning board next. And we have phase two and phase three already planned for that.

Um and we also everything that we do, we try to tie it to our comprehensive plan. So, you can see at the bottom of the screens where it references the different goals listed in the Pittsburgh Land Use Plan. Um along with that, phase one is zoning assistance for small businesses, which um basically helping the businesses get through the permitting process. So, zoning and um county permitting, attending the scoping and pre-submittal meetings, um helping businesses know what kind of questions they should ask at that time so that there aren't any surprises uh along the way. And looking at specific issues related to downtown such [snorts] as um growth and traffic, things like that. We also talk about what kind of programs we have such as grants with the new potential businesses. Um and our main uh software program OpenGov, that's something else that we're trying to help small businesses kind of navigate. Phase two is um feedback receiving feedback on proposed downtown projects. There is a uh It not been submitted officially, but there's a um discussion of a project on East Street that that applicants have met with the Downtown Advisory Board twice now and have received a lot of informative feedback on the site and you know, what's important to the community. We're going to continue having small business classes that are um through partnerships with Chamber of Commerce and CCC Small Business Center and we've done that 2 years in a row now. Phase three is creating checklists for all the different permits and you can see there's different permits there

making that easier black and white for um business owners that are trying to either expand or open a new new business or even existing businesses that are trying to understand the event process. Um after that we would update Open Gov applications as need be and we've already started having conversations um with Chatham County staff uh in regards to how we can integrate going from the Pittsboro applications easier to then know what's the next step you go to um

[clears throat]

inspections portal or health department portal. It It's It can be quite confusing.

Yeah.

And we're doing this in coordination with the Small Business Center, Phil Pappas um who also assists uh businesses in opening more on the logistical side and the Chamber of Commerce um who's also having conversations through their governmental affairs committee. Phase four would be taking all this information and pack- packaging it where it's reader-friendly on our website. So um you can see on the right there we've planned how it would look and each of those drop down boxes would be like

[clears throat]

the steps you would go through. Uh basically your business roadmap.

Mr. Thompson, I just want to say yay cuz that's that's the part that really gets me excited.

So

What I've heard from constituents and and even people who don't live in town but trying to start businesses in town.

Yes, sir. Yeah, and I would like to say yay, too.

[clears throat]

It's very exciting.

Yep.

Yeah, a lot of progress can be there. There's already been several uh concerns that we've been able to address um going through this process. Another initiative is expanding our Placer AI marketing data to provide for the downtown businesses. Um

A quick comparison here, it's just a snapshot but you can see the difference between the Dority's in Pittsburgh versus Apex. Dority's visitors increased by 406.3%. Um year over year while the Apex is down 3%. And that's just a snapshot. So and whenever you have a brand new business that's not unexpected to see that kind of increase and when you have an established business that's unexpected to see a slight decrease as well. Um but Placer data can really give really informative information for businesses on how to move forward. Um and obviously what Dority's is doing now in Pittsburgh is working because it's increasing year over year. Just want to throw these slides in. Um this is overall downtown Pittsburgh information. Uh there's 216,000 visitors coming downtown on average 6.91 times per year, average of 1.5 million annual visits which actually is really high for a small small downtown. Um there's information on where visitors originate and where they're going next after they leave downtown. Um something else that we're trying to communicate well with downtown businesses is uh the hours that we see the most foot traffic consistently is 6:00 p.m. 7 days a week. Um so working with that Placer package for the individual businesses, tailoring tailoring it for them to understand that when they close at 5:00, that's a missed opportunity. Average stays around 53 minutes. And Friday is the most visited day, Saturday close second. Um wanting to talk a little bit about why economic vitality matters. Um it strikes it through proactive planning, investment, and collaboration. So downtowns are often viewed as the heart of a community and it's a measure of the community's overall health.

A vibrant downtown supports local businesses, creates opportunities for entrepreneurship, generates tax revenue, attracts visitors, and gives residents a place that they can be proud of. Um locally owned businesses help create the unique character that differen- differentiates Pittsburgh from other places. So um you can see example of a study that was done in in the Asheville area where um a Walmart, for example, how much uh tax revenue it brings in and property value, but it also sits on 34 acres of land. So when you compare that to what a mixed-use multi-story high-density development would be downtown, the the return on investment is much much higher to the community. Um and we are looking to get more information on this and update the maps. The Chatham County GIS Department created that map for us. Um so we're working on that to provide more information for

Just real quick question, Uh the the the flare-up on the east side of town, is that is that the Chatham Park entrance there or is that

That's the Vinings.

It's the Vinings. So, that river there

It's the higher valued houses that are brand new in that new part of town. Um

Yeah, those are more of like the million plus dollar homes.

I think it's [clears throat] I think it's value per acre, so it's yep, smaller lots.

Yes, that that's

That goes over with

density.

Our density is much better for the local economy.

So, what we get to focus on is East Street and West Streets. That's where our value is, correct? According to this map, that's where we want it.

Where existing, this is showing the value

That's existing.

you know, for economic vitality. Um but yes, moving forward, this should also be a good reason to promote high density type development.

Compact high density.

Yes, sir.

And and compact high density that's mixed use.

Cuz that's where the revenue comes from is the mixed use.

That's correct. So, downtown like Hillsborough Street where you see first story retail restaurants, second story office, uh residential, and we're look we'll I will get to that in a second, but we're looking at character districts with different heights. Um going up to six stories or more.

Is the purple spike on the West Street, is that West End?

We think so. Yeah, I need to zoom in more, but we think that's the West End property.

Well, Ziad, we said thank you. He thanks us, I'm sure, too.

Um So, another huge project we've been working on is evaluating our downtown boundaries, the downtown support areas, and potential incentive districts. So, everything that we do again, it's tied back to the land use plan. Um, the map in the middle there with the bright colors is our future land use plan map that we overlaid our future um, corridors from our comprehensive transportation plan. Um, so you can see all the red lines, well, Channel Parkway is partially built, but those are identified as areas where we will probably want to see um, corridors built in order to address like congestion downtown, for example. So, we're trying to tie everything together as we're looking at how downtown should grow. Um, bottom left is our current zoning map. And uh, the top right is just a draft of potential incentive boundaries. Um, so our downtown dream team has been working on this for several months. It's been interesting going through the down zoning law and what what can be allowed and what not allowed, um, which is why we're going the incentive route. So, um,

the goal is uh,

[clears throat]

um, hopefully we'll be able to implement it in the UDO as requirements, but for the time being it'd be more It's kind of like our affordable housing incentives where um, if you provide at least 10% of your units at 70% AMI, you can have double the density. And that's an admin level, staff level approval. It also helps guide the town board in rezoning and conditional rezoning requests. Um, it also provides the down uh, any developers that come to town direct uh, information on, "Hey, this is what is important to the community." Uh, economic vitality, we're also looking at the upcoming street scape project. Our street skate stars is um, working more on that. Specifically, we're uh going to go visit Apex, and Caitlyn's setting up meetings with DOT, and um contacted Apex so that we can go visit, learn from them on what we can do potentially better and what they've done well so that it's a you know, successful um project where all the businesses can stay open and accessible the entire time. And uh have it go, you know, where all the business owners understand what's happening and it's streamlined. Again, it's um internal action items um more for for staff to look at outside of the collaborative work plan with all the volunteers. Moving on to design, which is preserving and enhancing the downtown Pittsburgh's physical character. It includes historic preservation, public art, creative placemaking, walkability, connectivity, beautification, and long-range planning committee. So, um historic preservation, this is a carryover project that the downtown

designers team has been working on for several months, um contacting SHPO, and looking into different [clears throat] areas of of downtown and the surrounding areas of downtown um on how we can better preserve uh historic properties. Also looking at how we connect uh Robinson Creek to downtown. Um we are like we had mentioned I mentioned before, we have several comprehensive plans including the bike and ped plan and the parks and recs plan. Um so looking specifically at the greenway uh the the creek itself, greenway trail, and how we can connect that to downtown. Phase two of this will be other areas on connections to downtown.

[clears throat]

Goal is to install two new art projects this upcoming fiscal year. Here's a

slide of all the different public art that our downtown design committee has been a part of and there's we're still working on another art project we need to get approved before the end of this fiscal year. We're also looking at creating a cultural asset inventory. It will be interactive map that shows basically all the art downtown and areas where potentially art can be placed. We're also wanting to incorporate the creative placemaking recommendations into the vision plan. So this was the original committee that worked on that which was also a very large

[clears throat]

We also want to continue supporting the sculpture show and the linear park and art walk on East Street going all the way to West Street eventually. And there's grants that we plan to apply

for to help implement that as well. Our downtown pollinator program and implement it in at least one location. And uh refining our downtown alleyway design. And there's some visuals of the potential of our alleyway in the future. And that's an extension of our West Salisbury Street streetscape concept plan as well.

That is such an important project and I know it's going to be such a challenging one but it's just we have so much potential on the backside of those buildings. And I think um you know, obviously there's a lot of stakeholders, a lot of players, a lot of moving parts. That's I think that's exactly why it needs so much attention. So, I'm very grateful that it's that it's going to be a carryover project.

Yes, sir. Our first step is a survey downtown of alleyway. So, we're working on that right now.

Actually digitize it and understand exactly where everything is.

Exactly. All the existing infrastructure.

And that's the survey is this fiscal year still?

We yes, we are trying to finalize that contract before July 1st. Um some internal uh play uh projects as well. Lastly, going into promotions, focusing on downtown social value. And we have several promotion teams. And the community itself. Uh we're we still want to expand small business Saturday activities. That remains a high priority. And uh another big project we've been working on is our downtown tourism initiative. We've hired clean marketing firm. And these are some of the projects that uh visuals of things that they're going

to help us do better. Uh we also want to keep promoting shopping events downtown such as Finally Fridays, First Sundays, farmers market, AgFest, BikeFest, et cetera. And increased team involvement. Um you mentioned our ex-officio high schooler high school student. Um so, our outgoing member Waylon and then our incoming London, they've already started um putting together a list of contacts to have a public or a teen young adult public input session where we can hear from from teens and young adults on what what do we need to do better downtown? Like such as activities, events, ways that they can help volunteer. Um going back into supporting, here's our Family Fridays uh a shopping event, so providing more logistical support for that. Here's pictures of several of the other activities and events that we've had downtown over the past couple years. And want to continue to doing that. We don't want to add any new community events, but support the ones that we have. That's kind of our goals for this fiscal year right now. Update our website to include all the downtown events. Hopefully we can do that with this new position. Um much better than what it's been, unfortunately. And more internal action items. So this PowerPoint was included in your packet if you'd like to read through it more. And uh if you have any questions, just let me know. So in closing, the work plan reflects recommendations from PDAB, volunteers, businesses, community partners, and

adopted town plans. Try to balance economic development, design, tourism, infrastructure coordination, business support, and community engagement. And again, most importantly, none of this happens alone. It's a result of collaboration. Everyone working together towards a shared vision. So thank you, and please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you. Any questions for Teresa?

I just said he started this off saying, "I've got like 39 or 40 slides." But each one was so engaging and so exciting.

Pardon me?

I couldn't wait for the next one, not because I wanted you to finish, but they were just they were so good and I'm so excited about the plans for downtown because downtown is Pittsburgh. It is our brand and this is awesome. Thank you very much. And Caitlin helped with the making it look so pretty. Good job to the planner.

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. Any questions? All right.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, there is an action item. Uh recommendation to approve the

Uh motion to approve Downtown Pittsburgh annual work plan for FY 26-27 as presented and recommended.

I second.

Thank you. Commissioner Bonnett and Commissioner Thurber, all those in favor say aye.

Aye. [clears throat]

Aye.

Um Let's take a 5-minute recess.

I move [clears throat] that we take a 5-minute recess.

I second.

Mhm.

Good bye. Up next is the Town Lake Master Plan update.

Okay. I want to give a little update.

[clears throat]

So, we are here tonight um and want to give a little bit of history of why we even got um why we even sought to look for a master plan update for Town Lake. And one of the things is we know the bridge, right? That washed out. So, that's problematic, right? Um we've always heard ever since in community feedback is we really want that connectivity throughout the whole property of that all [clears throat and snorts] the way around the pond. So, how how do we get that? What does that look like? And then for the existing area of there is very limited parking and there's very sporadic parking whenever you're there. So, we got to a point where, okay, we know what we have here. We love what we have here, but it just needs to flow a little bit better. So, what does that look like? And so, we just sought for um some consultants of bring us up to bring us up to speed and let's see how we can do this. If this is our main goal of getting this, what does it look like especially with the sidewalk being extended all the way to the front. Where do we go from here? So, All right. So, we took the overall analysis. The constraints are going to be in red that you see. So, it's everything from the topography, the flood zones.

And we have an orange thing that we know that are wanting to stay. So, we know that the soccer field that we wanted to have that playground space up at the front. We know that there's a existing path. We want to enhance that in whatever it looks like and a neighborhood connection that's on the end of Cotton Street. And what opportunities do we have going from there? So, we came up with two design concepts, which is what we're here today of what we're what we're really looking at. One is more of a minimalist design and two is more of an optimal design. Your minimalist design is really focusing on things that ultimately we can do, for the most part, in-house, right? And then, your optimal design is okay, if you're wanting to really have that ADA accessible sidewalks and more of a full connectivity on that level, that is going to be your more optimal design. If you're looking for tape, there's a couple of washed-out areas along the trail and as it in its existence right now, let's just keep it the way it is and just build that up a little bit. That's something that we can do in-house. And what does each plan bring to the table? And how do we get there? Are there certain studies that need to be done? What what studies and what do those costs look like? And we will find out more costs once we decide which plan we want to pursue. So, keep that in mind as well. This is something that we will have a little bit more of an understanding once we decide which direction we're going to go to. So, as you see, too, the optimal designs versus minimal designs. Optimal is not only a little

bit more polished, but there's also different overlook places. Both of them have water access. One, maybe for your minimalist option, is still more of your just entry, natural entry for the lake. Whereas your optimal entry is maybe having the ADA access, more formalized entry if you're putting in canoe access. One thing I will say, because this has been a hot topic, too, is when are we getting more fish for that pond? And I will say this will be further in the in the study. That is a little bit more complex because there is something that's in that particular lake that's called parrot's feather. And it is a weed that sucks the oxygen out of the water that prohibits fish from being able to breathe and life to be able to be in there. And that is actually coming from Robinson Creek. So, that's dumping into Town Lake. So, whereas this is not without a lot of maintenance and consistent maintenance every single year to be able to keep the parrot's feather at bay to be able to stock the stock the pond, that is not going to be your ideal place to go fishing, per se. However, the pond at the Robinson Creek site is a freshwater pond, is great, and that is a perfect site for stocking. So, whereas we won't have that one, and for that one, that's more of a fishing and not as much as a hard kayaking, canoeing type thing. So, there's a little bit of a balance there. All right, so facing options, the further away from the the line is the more expensive that you're going to be, essentially.

Going through some of these in the minimalist design. Again, these are things that are going to be more in-house. You're going to keep the trails very natural. You're going to take a minimalist approach. This is optimal. More polished, you have more parking than you have on the first minimal.

[clears throat]

And break it down in different sections, right? So, for this first leg of it, this is you're going to have your nice fence, whether that's going to be as nice as you'll see in a minute. And maybe some trailheads, maybe some seating. This is something what that looks like for more of a a minimalist design. For the optimal design, you would have instead of the natural trails, you would have more of the boardwalks. And you would get in and you would have asphalt places and more. And it's going to be more costly and maybe overlook places and then having the natural trails in the middle of that section, maybe even a play lot. Um a normalized trailhead at the connection down by in front of Pisgah Elementary School. So, the second phase of that, which you can see on the map, is the other side. And you're looking at minimalist design for this area is going to be, you know, a little bit more relaxed, having your nice trail, not as much parking cuz it's not going to be as active, a little bit of overlook. Right, very very passive areas. And then your optimal is just being enhanced more, more parking,

[clears throat]

you know, bathrooms um that are going to be there, maybe a larger playground in the areas, everything that is going to be paved. A more of a higher, I guess, ADA accessible access, water access versus your minimalist approach, which is just a defined access point. Similar to what you see now. All right. So, and this is the back leg. So, again, if you're wanting to connect it, there are going to be a couple of different places that you would have to have boardwalks, but for the most part, we would still be able to do this most of this work in house. And for the optimal design, this is really just enhancing, adding more art structures and or art sculptures around the side, having more formal overlooks, fences, maybe even an additional parking lots on the other side. All right. So, the bridges, not to confuse you, the bridges are a completely separate ballgame. And they're not It's not a If you choose option one, you can get a bridge, or if you choose option two, you get bridges. Those are completely separate, because no matter what if you're looking at bridges, it's all around the same process, right? You're going to have to get a delineation study, and that costs five that has a time limit of 5 years. If So, you don't want to get something like that until you're ready to construct a construct

something like that. So, what we did was we said, and this is not saying, "Hey, give three where all three bridges." This is not saying that we want to build three bridges on this site. That's not what this is saying. This is saying, "Where are some options? Your 3X is where the existing bridge was that was washed. And that is going to be your best for connectivity. If you were looking for other options that you weren't necessarily tied for that 3X, or maybe down the road, who knows? Maybe we just have a lot a lot a lot of money, Heather, and we just bridges in just for even more connectivity. You want to have more. Then we can look at, you know, 3Z, which would could be a little hidden bridge to connect people, or at 3Y, something that's front and center that you can connect right there as the little smaller loop type thing, right? All of these to make that happen, you're going to have to do the same thing. You're always going to have to do the delineation flood delineation study, the floodway study, the H&H analysis, all of those things. It doesn't matter for which bridge that you do. So, those are some of the things just to keep in mind. And that's why the the bridges are a totally separate thing.

All right, for just a moment, just to confirm, 3Z on the north side, do I recall that that's where that very significant rise, topographical rise, there's a very tall mound, is that at that location?

I believe so. Right there, across there.

Where the two levels are.

Yeah.

It's just to the right of where the two levels are. That's where the the spillway is, that's a pretty narrow crossing,

but if you go further down, I think it's like topo-wise from one side of the pond to the other, it's fairly flat. So, then you can you could span that.

Okay.

Yeah, a little bit more easily.

Thank you.

Yes, sir.

And then, these are just your different options, whether you you want to have your just standard we [clears throat] bridge all the way up to one of your more fancy, artistic bridges, yeah? They're options. Again, when Heather releases the big goose of money we have, right? So, ultimately, here's here's what I want us to consider or really think about is that this may seem especially when you're looking at master plans and keeping in our master plans is this is not saying, "Hey, we have to do everything." Right? That's not what a master plan is. A master plan is saying, "Hey, here are your opportunities. Here's what you can do." So, you know, let for example, for optimal design number two, it shows so many different outlooks. That's not saying this master plan ultimately you have to do all of those outlooks. That's not what it's saying. It's just [clears throat] saying that hey, here are some options, and maybe down the road in phases you can do those. Um if you this could say, "Hey, we want to we may want to keep one side natural and one side paved. For since this is going to [clears throat] be very close to the center of town and a great connectivity spot, we may say that one side we want to at least have one side as paved for people with mobility or people that are doing bicycles or things like that for that connection point. This This design is you've paid for the study. You might as well get the costs from all options because right now if

you're doing it, you could probably say, "Hey, 2A from the connection that's going in front of the elementary school might be the best option at this point." But by the time that you're constructing it or have the funds that people will go and do that, who knows? The TC The 2C area might be a better option. At least you would know have a better idea by pursuing and at least gathering some of those costs of what you would be facing. So, just some things to think about in that aspect of it. I don't want I don't We often get caught up in a lot of numbers [snorts] numbers numbers numbers and that's not necessarily for me whenever I'm looking at these. Sometimes it's like, "Oh, okay. What are our options?" And what is this This is gives us a better idea of where we can go and when we when we can go in the future depending on what's going on. And where we're at as a town.

I like the thought of mixing the the two.

Yeah.

We're facing.

Have you considered uh a a complete loop uh for joggers? So, uh what I see right there if I'm following the trails around the lake, there's no way to go complete in a complete circle, or is there?

Not right now.

Not right now. Okay, it's lack of bridge.

[clears throat]

Lack of bridge problem at the entrance. But then then you have a gosh, that's probably a 2 and 1/2 mile run, right?

Yeah, and even on the back trail, there's some like mountain biking trail, but even on the back side

I love

right now, it's not fully connected.

Is that the trail that comes out behind Pittsboro Elementary School? Is it open?

Um that is

Okay.

Yes, that is open, but closest to the

bridge side that is at the end of 2A up on that top side.

[clears throat]

So you mentioned um the reason we can't stock the pond, is that was a big concern of people. Were the end of the big concern of the stakes in there? Could you just speak to why we cannot remove the stakes? Cuz I hear that all the time.

Yeah, so that's a great question. Um that Yeah. That was a study that was done several years ago. I think with NC State University. That's something that's going to be talked discussed more when we get this final study. From my understanding, those were the stakes and the the tarp that was placed in there was put for some ecological study or whatnot. We don't have the resources to get that out right now, and we don't know what impact that is. So until we have further further understanding of what that looks like, I don't [clears throat] necessarily want to disturb that without understanding really what are the full scope of what that impact would be. Um and so that in the study is along with the pond's restoration um, dredging it and things like that will also be in the study, too. And the official master plan study to see how, hey, what does it look like to get this done, fully done, and get remove that.

Is that put there when um, the lake was drained a few years ago or the pond?

Uh, that's been there ever since I've been here, at least.

Yeah, actually it was done by NC State and it I was probably maybe here maybe a year when and they came in and did this study at no charge and uh,

they pretty much ruined the lake, to be honest with you, cuz it was full

[snorts]

and the water kept fluctuating and um, fishing got bad, um, several other issues started, too, but I don't think the lake's been full in years.

Mhm.

[clears throat]

Do you remember who was town manager at that time?

Oh gosh. Mr. Cherry, maybe?

Mr. Cherry. Just trying to Yeah, the chronology. Estimate of when it was.

So, our goal here is to provide some guidance to you. I see in in what structured way you need guidance.

We really need more towards the optimal design or the minimalist design.

Well, obviously the optimal, but we have no price.

Exactly, that's what this study would give us.

So, right now you have some hydrology issues uh, for bridges for $100,000 per bridge, right? What about Do you have any ballparks for um, the minimalist versus optimal? And can we Can we do a hybrid? Where are we getting the money for this? There's a lot for us

Yeah, so that's part of the reason why we do the master plan as well and why we have one of these options because a lot of the grants that we would be applying for the more specific of the plan

Okay.

the better the points that we get on the grants, right? So, if we have a clear outline of where we are going to go in say a master plan, the more points and better we are when we apply to receive those grants. Um I can tell you for bridges, um the swinging bridge that was just on here that one

uh all the way to the left was about $700,000. Now, that was probably a third longer, only construction.

You're you're anywhere from 1,200 to 2,000 a linear foot for bridge.

Okay. Or are we is it planned to rely on grants for this? Exclusively on grants?

We have other funding options.

The Duke Energy bridge?

Yeah. There you go.

Right. Sponsorships, things like that.

Mhm.

But I think broadly it's more of what is

[snorts]

what is the vision of Town Lake Park? What would you like the vision of Town Lake Park to be? And then once we know that, then we can go to work to figure out how to make that happen.

Okay.

I'm curious too if we can do the design for the optimal design and then kind of scale back to the others as grants come in. You know, if we get a grant for this section, great, but at least we would know like ideally this would be what we want and it's going to cost this much.

Right.

In the meantime, we might have our crews go out there and clean up the trail.

The our intent in general?

Yep.

Of still doing updates as we as we can with what we have internally right now. With the grants and things again, it a very just like many things that we do is going to be a very phased approach, but understanding too, while we have the opportunity for this study

[clears throat]

to have all options on the table to see what everything cost, I I think is something to consider.

And from attending the um special meeting, it seemed like Para was advising that this should stay a natural, um I think they used the word historic

park, minimalist, less is more. But I know from other meetings that I've attended and talking to people and basically that the town's goal seems to be for everything to be connected. So, connectivity is so important. Um I think it's also really important that we make sure that the all of our parks have a good level of accessibility for everybody. Um so I I liked your idea of possibly even doing a hybrid like this section is all ADA and picking the best area for that. Um but I I I do think I like what you were mentioning like let's go for the whole study, let's start doing um what we can in-house, but I do think our focus, I think we need to define it. Um our focus should be making sure that the park is available to be used by everybody and be connected.

At least portions of

Yeah, at least portions. Not It doesn't necessarily with the whole thing, but

Yeah, cuz the whole thing would be

Yeah, that would

apparently extraordinarily expensive.

Yeah.

And there are people who like natural trails. Cuz I I like what you said about the minimalist

for part of the

Mhm.

So, um I would really love it if we could get uh the the present issues addressed, those things that are just uh really needing attention immediately. Um and in a naturalistic way while also continuing to have um goals or vision towards the more maximalist optimal scenarios. I think you know, there's some signs down. Uh there's some things that need to be removed from the park. I think I'm hoping those things are things that we can do in house. Um and

maybe in a couple of areas put down some more Chapel Hill grit or something just to eliminate very clear stumble hazards. and then, you know, once we've gotten to that point um let's let's go for a big bold vision, but let's also make sure that we get it workable and and usable now cuz there's people who who have the perception that the park is closed. And with one of the entrances having barricades up, it's it looks like that. So. Um Yeah.

There is a portion of the park that's closed right now. Because of the storm damage.

Well, the bridge.

Yeah.

Yeah, the bridge is clearly and and we might you know, we might that'll nicer, too. You get get some carpentry work instead of just um something that's I don't know. It I think there's more that we can do to get it to a point where it's usable and uh pleasant. Uh while we also strive for a more ambitious design. But, um my my concern with aiming for the big maximalist uh optimal design is we just we just don't have the money and so do we really want to invest in dreaming up or studying those higher-priced features at this moment in time or do we want to wait 3 years, 5 years when the money is might be higher?

Well, this doing the study and getting the numbers, so choosing option the optimal design will then trigger Pond, our consultant, to get us the pricing on all of those items and present that in the final study document. So then that's

what we will, like Katie was saying

That's how we find out.

That's how we would then provide that when we are submitting for grants. So at least it provides an option and then we can it provides an option to best maybe optimize and meet those goals by being able to to apply for multiple grants cuz there might be specific grants for say a bathroom, specific grants for something else.

Handicap

access.

Yes, and then we can uh and then we'll see how and then to those items would be brought to the board. Provide direction on how we're going

You all allocated 300-ish thousand last year some point. So we could always take that money that's literally sitting there for Town Lake and and kind of do what you mentioned. Um clean stuff up, make some changes in-house internally while we figure out the bigger picture.

And at that point too, you can start selling it. The idea of it you can push for corporate donations. There's a lot of things you can do if we have a an optimal optimal design that is

[clears throat]

innovative and sexy. We we can get we can elicit help.

So, that's

Unless you were planning to use that money for a match on something.

for right now. It's not accounted for it's not allocated I don't have specific plans for it right now.

I know if you were thinking maybe use that for a match on something once you get the study done.

So, a lot We'll we'll unpack that.

You know, looking at the at the area this this town like park is in. We have we don't it's kind of a a place where there's not a lot of stuff in Pittsburgh there. It kind of balances the the park on the on east behind the plant.

There's a balance there. It'd be really cool to be able to walk from here across Robinson Creek go down Robinson Creek to the to the plant.

Yeah.

Yes, yes. On on Diane Street or something. So, I think it's a great spot. I think it'll balance well and I can also envision families spending the whole day there if if it's pleasant enough. There's trees, there's lots to do.

So, so the bridge really is critical of course in restoring that. It it is a very significant undertaking.

I'd like to make a motion to proceed with option one while also considering option two. Stop.

I was like you know collaborate.

No, because I feel like we're right in the middle. Like we're both saying we're in the middle. So, what do we say one or five?

Okay, we can always scale back. Yeah. Go up and then I think that's what Heather was saying.

Right, so I was saying if you choose option two, optimal design, you're at least getting pricing on everything. You don't have to implement everything.

Okay.

So, I'd like to make a motion to proceed with option two.

Good. Is there a second?

Second.

Second by Mr. Foley. Any other discussion?

One question, is what's the condition with the dam?

Well

Fine.

Yeah, it's fine. Based on what they were saying they had engineers that were out there that they said that that it was fine.

Good.

The leak fix is holding.

And I I know we haven't had rain, but um are we below normal levels?

Okay.

We're at normal level.

Yeah, I mean previously from when the dam because around this time it would have been

Like

empty.

Okay, good.

Because of the leak.

Because of the

Okay.

[clears throat]

Include in the motion the part about going ahead and fixing what we can in house.

Friendly amend?

I guess it's separate.

I think we're just choosing this design or that design right now. Is that what the the question is? And I I I like Heather's idea. Let's go with the go to the big one and then we can pair back. I think that would help.

Okay, motion second. All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed?

[clears throat]

Thank you.

So next, Chatham Park South Village Section 22 or 23 E2 Parkland relocation. Okay.

I'm going to start tonight.

Okay.

So, we this is something that was brought back to Harb, which is now being brought back to the Board of Commissioners. We had three separate options for this. This is the E2 location. And this was an additional map that was provided. This one is for the South Village overall. Whenever you're looking at your 5-minute 5-minute walk or your half-mile walk from your closest park. Originally,

[clears throat]

in a lot of the a lot of the maps that they were

showing, it would come the center point of the park. This is the 5-minute walk from each point of the park. So, all of this area in the green, only the lighter parts, the lighter shades are the spaces that are not within your quote-unquote 5-minute meets your 5-minute walk area. I know that that was a concern last time. So, these are your overall what's what's being discussed. This is what's on the table. E1 is the existing approved one. That's not the one that we're discussing, but just this is your next closest one. E2, which is your original, in the looks like a lime green up there, that's where it is originally. It is with the fire station right there. So, I want to make sure that that's on your radar as well. And you have the three different proposed locations for it. That light purple being option three, that I would say like a kelly green, I guess, would be option two. And then the blue up top would be the option one for relocation.

Can you refresh my memory or memory about why we're provided these once again? What we had?

So, this is more from a transparency perspective. I know that we have a lot of these questions we have a lot of these conversations and you know, just again, you have your master plans, they are subject to change. And based on, you know, some of the developments and things like that, this area could change. So, what they're proposing is this E2 needs to be relocated. That property, right? So,

we're looking at three different options

Before you go any further, E2 needs to be relocated but I forget what it was. Was it topography? Uh, access.

[clears throat]

What was it? Why? I don't remember.

So, that is relocated for believe development purposes.

Okay.

It didn't fit in the development plan where it currently is. K-

and I both feel we are quite happy to have it moved. This was one of our least favorite park locations in the South Village.

Why? Okay.

A lot of slope in it.

And you'll see

Which one was that, Jonathan? I'm sorry.

Original original location. So, and I'll show it to you right here. So, this this was this is E1, right? So, this is not what we're voting on right now. This is E1. This is already established. Right? In the in the plan that was approved in the South Village Small Area Plan. This was the original location. Right? So, it's not terrible. It just is access is out out there a little bit. This was

[clears throat]

relocation option one. And as you can see, it's all the way up at the top in the grand scheme of things. So,

Blue one. Blue.

Yes, this is the blue. Mhm. Topo is not great on this one, and the access is very limited. So, and per pair of this is not this is not one that we're considering. Now, this is option two, right? Topo's okay.

The stream crossing there, right?

Mhm.

What are the What is the meaning of the colors?

So, the meaning of the colors is slope.

If you look at the bottom right,

You can see that key. Um green is 5%?

Yellow is 10%. And that's the that's the maximum. Orange is 20, and red is maximum of 100.

Okay.

Um minimum is 0, 5, 10, and 12.

So, red is the very steepest parts.

Yes.

And the green and yellow are the flatter, more uh buildable parts.

Yeah. So, I got that right?

Yep.

Thank you.

And then

[clears throat]

this would be option three. And again, and again, this is to the left. That little green spot, whenever you're looking at this, is the existing approved E1.

Well, that one's got a nice access to the road. And uh it drops off to the west, obviously, but the majority of it is pretty doggone flat. Is there Is there a stream crossing there? There's not, is there?

There's that stream crossing right there to the left. Um in that little red, there is.

It's far

Yes.

west

Yeah, far west.

Okay.

Um however, there will be a multi-use path going all the way down that front.

Long term, looks like

the town can maintain that. That's not an issue.

I mean, this is going to be an installable to use path that they're that they are going to be constructing.

The town will maintain it because the DOT will not.

Got it.

We will have to maintain. So, each of these have a fire station location as well, right? Which is to be determined where on the parcel once we accept the location.

Yes.

Okay. Would

this site, didn't you have

Yeah, for this particular site, um it would we'd want to put it in the

corner of Charlie Brooks and I keep forgetting um King's Chapel. King's Chapel. So, that way they could have two points of access. Yeah.

Okay, one question. How do we know that Charlie Brooks extension road, where is it coming out at on Hanks Chapel Road? We don't know, right?

Sir?

Right there.

Right right there?

Yeah. Or do you mean in the other direction?

The other direction. I mean, it's Where is it coming Where is Charlie Brooks Road extension coming out on Hanks Chapel Road?

Uh you you can't zoom out, can you?

I can go back here.

There you go.

If you

I can't read that, man. I can't read mine here, either.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's see if we can find it.

Can you pull it up on there?

I guess I could.

I don't know. No.

Do you know where Clark Road is?

That's And it kind of goes into a dirt road that they

into the lake.

And then finish stuff. I can do less.

That's getting out of our fire district.

It is right at this southern end of our fire district. So, this would be this would be the furthest southern southeast station that we would have before you get into Oh, I'm I'm blanking on the

I'm not sure if our uh the um study we did had a station that far.

Did.

[clears throat]

And this location is just south of that octagon where it showed. It's just And it actually may be in like one of the the tips of it, but it's it's really close.

Uh do the fire department and the park have

to be on the same lot?

They don't have to be.

Okay.

Uh is option two the piece that is closest to the Army Corps land?

Yes. However, we upon looking upon asking several different departments and people that have worked as

Since Hanks Chapel.

That is not necessarily a partnership that that that could pursue. We were able to have us that was one of PARAB's questions of hey, well, since it's so close to Jordan Lake, can we not have direct access to Jordan Lake through Army Corps of Engineers? That's just not for my understanding, that's not something that would be on the table.

But we can get access to the 30 acres off of Hanks Chapel Road.

For option two?

Yeah, for option two. So, um I was really intrigued that PARAB's recommendation was unanimous that they favored option two and option three and staff are recommending only option three. So, help me understand that.

So, PARAB said that they wanted to put it on the Board of Commissioners. So, they said that we don't really have one way or the other. um okay.

So, for me is that if it's staff's recommendation, my recommendation was for option three because then you have one large regional park that is a lot of land all in one. And that is fantastic topography.

And you have two fronts best rows.

We we can't accept the wording in in the memo is confusing me. Are we not being offered .7 acres? So we are not being offered option two and option three.

No, it's the two or the other option three. Yeah.

All right.

Rather the pair's recommendation was both of them rather than or.

No, well they just they liked either one.

They liked either one. They were not committed to either one.

I think the quote was let the board of commissioners pick.

Okay, all right.

[clears throat]

Um and I wasn't able to get through to very many of them for further questions, but the little bit that I did learn was intriguing about the the idea of a a park program for this region that would be I guess in park parlance passive. And um hiking trails and etc. Um on option two uh is is really intriguing. So

Well, just to clarify, the actual [clears throat] what we end up doing with the land, I mean that will come out at a later terms of community outreach and all of you know doing the a master plan for the area. So, it might not end up being a

passive park. It might end up being something else. Um so, that I wouldn't choose the location just based on it being a passive park.

How far [snorts] is that from Tiger Rescue, you curious?

A mile, maybe.

Oh, and a part

Be more than that cuz it be more ball eagle ball eagle and all the way up to that to that development, so.

You have [clears throat] that say shortage you correct me.

Yes, it's right above the Bald Eagle subdivision, not the other one I said. My my bad.

I'm thinking about families visiting the park and the Tiger Rescue concept, you know, day tripping it.

And And option three [clears throat] would create a 63-acre park in that area, correct?

Love the topo on this one. How How much acreage would be a fire department in the northeast corner there? When how many acres do

Really? They They will assign 3 acres to that fire station per their element. Uh but that doesn't mean we have to use all three. But I think we we reserve it for a fire station or the fire department until we design the station together. Which that's going to be a while.

Mhm.

But I think that's important like it that 3 acres is satisfying the requirement, but if it ends up being 2 and 1/2 or 3.1 or whatever, that's up to us later. It's just satisfying that requirement.

Yeah, you could do some type of joint storm water there with parking for the park and bathrooms and then the fire station next to it. Yeah. Develop it all kind of different ways.

Have we gotten any input from the the fire

chief? And what was his thumbs up?

Yes, sir. Dual dual road frontage is good is good.

That's one of the keys in the element itself. It's kind of want to be at a at a corner. Yeah. But we both laughed knowing that neither Daryl or I will probably see the construction of this fire station. Another point that I would add is if you look at the zoomed in one that has the blue kind of circles. Um

Red circles.

The blue right here.

Yeah.

What is that? That's the

The blue line.

Okay.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

The blue, what is that again? The um

Watershed.

So option two is it can 100% in the watershed. And so that's going to limit some of the things that you can do there.

Yeah, okay. If it's passive

Yeah, that's where

it wouldn't matter if it's passive. If it's passive, I mean if it's against uh game lands and Army Corps land, I think it it wants to be passive. So

Yeah, certainly.

Um

Any other questions or comments?

I'll just say I'm still a little confused.

About the location? Or the number choices?

Yes, yes, and yes.

I can answer all the questions.

[laughter]

You know where the bald where bald eagle is subdivision?

Yeah.

So, one is Hold on. Not one. Let me

Let me uh

Let me say the exact option three is just north of the bald eagle subdivision. And then option two is going to be uh to the east on the east side of Gum Springs across the street from Bald Eagle. Which is at the very southern end of Five Ridges.

And what you have on the screen now? This is three, right?

This is option

This is three.

This is option a little bit of two.

Three. This is This one

And two is blue there.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, that's three.

Up. I think the major differentiators option three has dual road frontage.

All right.

And it create a larger regional park, and then option two is uh is in a watershed and would back up to

game lands.

And state

And

real, too, right?

With the game lands, is there Do we have restrictions like what next to the game land?

Not sure. Well, we what what we were directed was from staff from P&R's perspective was hey, is there any partnership that we're able to access the Jordan Lake right there because that was one of the considerations of it would be nice to be able to do that. From what I understood that that was not well received or would be a possibility.

I think with the game lands, the hunting would be the primary use.

Oh, yeah.

So, that would

Correct.

restrict other uses around it.

During those seasons.

Right.

But, that's part number That's two as well. Option two. That's a no-brainer.

Yeah, but I think there's I think there's other activities allowed when it's not

being hunted.

[clears throat]

This is the drill right here, right? Two.

Uh yeah, that's two.

This My mind's going blank. I'm sorry.

That's two. Put down number three.

This is option two.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then this. So, this is just an original one. This is always going to be there. This would be option three. So, it would it would connect right there.

And that's how you would connect to the two.

Yeah, so this Yeah, it's really hard to see it from the overlay perspective, but this would be a direct connection right

It's a no-brainer. Okay, now let me tell you what that might

That would be 62 total.

Five.

Yep.

Oh, okay.

That would total to 62.

Okay. And this is what we were talking about

Mhm.

Yeah, [clears throat] okay.

Yep, and then this is the option two.

Is it north or south?

South to the Army Corps and the game lands.

I'm going to make your life harder.

Yeah, little kids are getting shot.

What's So, this is what it looks like.

Option three.

Oh, that's three. So,

This is option three right here.

over here.

Yeah, so well, so this is This is a different one, but it would just would connect. This [clears throat] is always going to This is always going to stay here.

Okay.

Yeah, so this isn't what we're voting on. This is just saying that this was approved in the South Village small area plan. This is There's other option for the relocation of this and that total would you know if there's a it's south dirt road on the

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

[clears throat]

I'm there.

Yeah, it looks like I'm looking at a lighter map.

There's one like extreme, I think.

Yeah, the gray scale.

But it but it follows perfectly that that property line.

Just curious. You know something.

That kind of 62.

That's where I see the fire station.

And Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

Well, I have a thought.

I had written down there earlier.

Yeah.

But it's the snow road in Daniel also.

How did they know that exactly where this coming at thing?

They already is on it.

Oh, yeah.

No private conversation, you know. Not private, but I don't know what I'm doing.

We have a motion.

I yield.

I'd like to make a motion to approve the relocation of park land and fire station identified as section 2.2 or 2.3 to option three. As presented with the understanding that approval is for the property in its current condition and that the site will remain in its natural state without disturbance or improvements.

Thank you. Is there [clears throat] a second?

Second.

Second by Commissioner Hunsecker. Any other discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right. Up next. Thank you. You're in our section [clears throat] 6.3 Village Park Land dedication.

Katie Knight.

Hi.

Doo-da-doo-da-doo-da-doo.

Number two.

Okay. So, this is section 6.3 Village Park

[clears throat]

is the property that is just location-based next to the new YMCA. Want to go over the elements. This is

something that is going to be put up for Parkland as dedicated to the town. So, per the elements is the requirements for land dedication, Parkland dedication is unity, meaning it has to be a single parcel, the usability, 65% usability, the shape, so it has to be a square or round or be able to support active and passive predominantly active facilities, access, public street frontage, the infrastructure has to have sidewalks to the park, public water and sewer. So, this is currently where it is right now. And or this is the land that is uh for discussion. And this is what also one of the improvement sites for the North Village. And um so, what has been one of the $3 million sites that we would be receiving. This is what we would be receiving is this right here. So, we would we would be receiving graded property to this. This is a closer up with the exception of these little cutouts [clears throat] would be the stormwater pond and the pump station would be excluded from the acceptance. There is a walking trail that is that will be built around the outside of it.

We're going to just go ahead and open it up for questions.

Well, I walked this five times and I the only real concern that I have is that little

jet out there. Um Guess it's like the middle section there on the left side of the field. The drop is very significant and I'd like to see that um fenced. That's That was the big safety issue that I saw. And we are going to have it well seeded.

Mhm.

Okay.

And the soil will be stabilized.

In relation to the wives here.

So, receiving it it will have grass is one of our stipulations.

It will I don't think so. No, it's um it's over here.

[clears throat]

Um So, just so I want to be clear, uh we're accepting we're being asked tonight to accept the location

not to accept the land in a manner that allows Chatham Park to uh accrue this in their ledger. Is that right?

No, we are accepting the land as if we're not We are accepting the location as the parkland to be able for them to count it. We are not officially accepting the land until everything is satisfied to what we have agreed upon to need that the the grass is all in and it is fully accepted.

That's the part that confuses me. So, we're being asked to accept it uh contingent only upon staff approval. It's not coming back to the board for another vote.

Correct.

Well, um I'm not prepared to vote on that. Uh I'm prepared to accept the location but not the uh formal acceptance of the of the land.

Um I think we'd talked about warranty. Um Oops. Uh I think that's a much more complicated question. I have very significant concerns about access and equity of access of the of the facilities. I understand those details are being worked out.

[clears throat]

Um but those details will be worked out for any park.

Right. Later on, of course. Yeah.

Um but um at one point there was an assertion that there would be access from a private park or or part of private soccer organization.

Yeah, there was some prior discussions um with a uh private soccer program provider. Um those those negotiations have not worked out.

So, they're no longer involved?

No, sir.

And any future discussions with any provider, those that would come back to the board as a separate like agreement similar to the Chatham baseball league that was on East Chatham that was on the um agenda. So, that would be a separate thing that would be brought back.

Very helpful.

And Chatham Park did agree today to do a one-year warranty um on the park, similar how we do roads and sidewalks and other infrastructure uh or until the town started construction, whichever was sooner. Cuz we we we shouldn't expect them to hold a warranty over a piece of property that we're out there doing construction on.

When are we going to have money to do construction?

I would like to start construction this time next year.

So, in the capital plan?

Really like April. Uh so, the the other piece of this is uh there's some fee in lieu Did you cover this? Sorry, I was going to ask you.

No.

Do you want to? Or do you want me to do it?

Go ahead.

Okay. Uh so, there is some fee in lieu coming

from uh the Womble track. I think it's 1.4 million, roughly. Uh there's also a half a million dollars that uh per the element needs to be spent for the Malott parcel. Not a whole lot you can do with half a million dollars uh in terms of building a park. Um so, the what we've been talking about with Chatham Park is to move that half a million dollars to this park. Um so, that'd get us to 1.9. And then we we are discussing or having some discussions with uh a soccer program provider to the tune of uh a nice number that'd get us close to 3 million uh to finish the build out of this.

And what kind of revenue would the town get from that?

Um the

rental of the park or

That depends on what you set as your rate. Um

We would We would be getting rental income [clears throat] then.

Yes. Yep. Now, the the the third party um provider, similar to East Chatham baseball, but this would be for soccer, uh they would essentially be prepaying field time. And in that agreement uh we would set or you all would set what that field rental is. And then the benefit to them is or the benefit to us is we're getting the money now to to build out the park. The benefit for them is they're locking in their field rental rate with some type of CPI index.

And as a non-profit that is their objective is to try and do this as thriftily

inexpensively as possible.

Yeah.

And it's interesting [clears throat] to

And a low-cost option to speak to the equity piece of making sure that folks can afford to play soccer.

What kind of facilities will we have there? We Go ahead. This is your area.

So ideally from a upfront it's going to be more expensive for a long-term range, it's going to be more cost-effective. It's artificial turf. From a maintenance perspective. And the staffing.

And the non-profit is agreeable to an

artificial turf? Is that relatively

Well, my understanding is they prefer it because their expectation is that this is going to be really heavily used. And what I'm understanding is that they're they're there's a a very significant shortage of fields. And more demand than there is available playing opportunity.

can we have tournaments on weekends and stuff like that?

I would hope so.

Cuz there's an economic driver.

Right.

Can I just not just rental of field, but also it tells restaurants, hotels, etc.

People purchasing gas, etc. Yeah. Cuz originally this had this was like a multi-use kind of park and kind of transitioned to the soccer because you need four fields to have an effective tournament facility.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I think our our hope would be is two turf fields lit, two grass fields likely not lit. That way it would limit play so that the the grass would have time recover. Um parking probably looking at some type of gravel approach initially. Bathrooms we'd like to do six uh unisex bathrooms and then some type of separate multi-purpose uh um structure that can be used as a pavilion and then also you could play sports underneath it and it'd be shaded.

Yeah, because especially when you're at a facility like this with zero shade you got to have some type of shade and also we've been hearing a lot of people in that surrounding area too who are saying, "Hey, we'd like more courts for your teens and for your young adults or for adults in general and not just something for younger kids as well."

So are we um deciding on the turf tonight as well as just Okay. Cuz I I just want to confirm that we've had conversations where it was going to be two fields where it would be natural surface. Okay.

Mhm.

I think I mean to clarify like we're this is the park location. Park dedication this evening. Any of the other stuff deals with soccer teams or archery leagues or field services all that stuff would come back to us.

It has to. You'd have to approve the expense of those monies.

I think we're all on the same page from a staff level that we want to get going.

On it.

I just want to thank Chatham Park for donating the land. Uh I think it's going to be an economic driver for uh Pittsboro. Uh you can see it off the highway. I'm assuming, right? At least the lights you'll see up the highway. Uh so it's it's a Yeah, maybe. Okay. That's a nifty.

The new lighting is pretty remarkable in terms of its it's pretty contained.

Okay. All right. So, strike that last observation. But anyway, I I do want to thank you Town Park for donating this land. Has to be said.

Can we just revisit the warranty again? So, is that 1 year from when we accept it or 1 year when we start construction, whichever comes first? So, the clock would start ticking now?

No. The warranty would start once the town took ownership of the land. And then it would continue until we started construction or 1 year, whichever is there.

Well, I thought that that's what's on the agenda tonight is to take ownership of the land.

It is just to say that this is going to be the park. And then we wouldn't take physical

Okay. That's what confused That's what I was trying to say. This is the location.

What you said was correct.

This is not the acceptance of ownership.

You were given thumbs up that this is this is an acceptable park location. Then staff will monitor um the progress over the next couple of months with the establishment of grass and all those different things to make sure that the park is up to standard before we come to you all and say, "All right, it's ready for uh acceptance for us to for the town to own it."

Okay. How long does it take to grow AstroTurf? I'm curious.

[laughter]

Well, we want to get a good stand of grass and weed and pest control um so that you don't want to you don't want to take a bunch of red dirt um that doesn't have something holding it together.

Okay.

I don't know. I'll check on that and I'll get back to you.

So, we can revisit the warranty question.

Uh yes. Yes.

We're not voting on the warranty tonight.

Yes.

I'd like to make a a motion to approve um Where are we?

Village

Village Park section 6.3 as presented as dedicated parkland with final acceptance being contingent upon staff approval of all upgrades and enhancements to the site.

Thank you. Is there a second?

Second.

Second, Commissioner Hunziker.

Discussion.

Any discussion?

So yeah, I I'm thinking that uh if we accept this as the location uh what leverage do we have at the second phase of acceptance? We accept this as a location

still we are forcing

forcing ourselves to take ownership in future.

I don't know. But it What what does acceptance of location do?

It keeps the process moving.

Does it activate their ability to uh

take credit for this as public parkland?

That I don't know the answer to that. I I don't think

Mr. Messer.

So I think the town would have to have to own the property for it to count. Is that right?

[clears throat]

Chuck, is that what you said?

Yeah, there's a formal dedication process where we give You You've been through it. Okay.

Thank you.

Which which is correct.

But from a staff standpoint we want to make you all to make sure that it's in the right shape and

Sure.

Yeah. There's a couple different things that we have concerns over. So we want to make sure that's taken care of.

Right.

Any other discussion? All those in favor, say I.

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

[clears throat]

Up next, we have a closed session. So, I'll take a motion to enter into closed session pursuant to NCGS 143-318-11A3 to consult with the town attorney to give instructions concerning judicial action of Seven Directions of Service, Chatham Climate Action Network, and Haw River Assembly versus the Town of Pittsboro, and A6 to discuss personnel.

[clears throat]

Thank you, Commissioner Foley. Second?

Second.

Commissioner Therber, all those in favor, say I.

I.

Mhm.

And all we're doing is yeah.

All right, we're back in open session. And I'll take a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

Thank you Commissioner Bonnets. Second.

Second.

Commissioner all those in favor say aye.